My Little Gramarist: SCIENCE! is Magic [Gramarie Discussion]

[DMwithoutPC's]

Appearently, I can't count.
Aah okey, I knew Inwas missing something

[Rolep]

Appearently, I can't count.
Aah okey, I knew Inwas missing something

It took me three read-throughs to get it!

[DMwithoutPC's]

Okay, can you guys help me? Because I can't seem to make a practical vehicle with orthogonal engines. The bulk rating of the engines itself is so high it keeps slowing me down!

Here’s what I want to do: I want to make a huge carriage for transport. I decided for the Mobile Redoubt from the Arms and Equipment guide. MR is huge so has a bulk rating of 343.

Firstly, to get it to move at all. The Push/Bulk has to be higher than 1. This means you need at least four S.O. Engines. (Because each S.O. engine provides 100 push) but when you have added 4 engines, your bulk has increased from 343 to 559. This is a 60% weight increase from the engines alone. It also means that you actually still can’t move, because your bulk is higher than your push. You can only move if you have six engines at once, and then your maximum speed is still 30 feet!

Of course, this problem because less with semispaces, because the weight of the engines are halved, but I still feel this is so silly that I must be doing something wrong. The way I see it, S. O. Engines are horrible impractical.

[Zale]

With 3-4 BIOY principles, you could always bring it to life and graft wings onto it. If it's Gargantuan, then you'd be cruising along at seventy or so feet per round.

'Course you'd have to feed it it's own body weight every month, which could be a pain.

-----
Also, I, uh, felt that like codifying some possible effects that being made of an ascended planetary metal might have on a chassis. (The same things would apply to bio-structure.)

Spoiler

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Carmot

Chassis made of Carmot do not take penalties for aging. Additionally, the Heal check of their creator is treated as double for the purpose of determining their maximum age when preparing BIOY 381.

Those made with with the Continual Carmot discovery gain fast healing as normal.

Sunmetal

Chassis made of Sunmetal are immune to negative levels caused by Radiomantic energy. When reduced to -10 hitpoints, they explode causing 1d6 points of Hellfire damage per hit die and 1d4 negative levels to every creature in a fifty foot radius.

The Sublime Sunmetal discovery increases the radius to a hundred feet, and causes it to inflict 2d4 negative levels.

Cursed Lead

Chassis made from Cursed Lead are affected by a personal anti-magic field. They are immune to any non-instantaneous spell that targets creatures (Such as Dominate Monster), as it is instantly suppressed. Spells with instantaneous durations, or those with area effects are unaffected (Such as Fireball).

With the addition of the Cursed Lead discovery, they may only act every other round, as normal.

Quicksilver

Chassis made from Quicksilver may take two rounds of actions every round. However, the heal check of their creator is treated as halved for the purpose of determining maximum age when preparing BIOY 381.

The Quixotic Quicksilver discovery inflicts this effect on any creature touching the chassis during their turn.

Phlogiston

Chassis made from Phlogiston are immune to fire damage. Their natural weapons or unarmed attacks deal an additional 2d8 fire damage and cause those hit to catch on fire (DC 17 reflex save). The damage and reflex save also apply to any creature that successfully attacks the chassis with their natural weapons or unarmed attacks.

Phlegmatic Phlogiston increases the damage to 3d8 and the save DC to 20.

Orichalcum

Chassis made from Orichalcum may, as a standard action, channel a number of ebbs equal to their hit dice to any acceptable device they are touching.

The Oefficient Orichalcum discovery doubles the amount of ebbs that may be channeled.

Moonsteel

Chassis made from Moonsteel can affect, and are affected, by creatures on both the Material and Ethereal planes. They can see ethereal creatures, and their natural weapons or unarmed attacks can strike both ethereal and incorporeal creatures.

With the Mysterious Moonsteel discovery, while carrying no more than a light load, they are treated as if under the effects of feather fall. They may, as a free action, treat themselves as if under the effects of the blink spell, but their ability to affect both the ethereal and material planes is suppressed for as long as they do so.

Alkahest

Chassis made from Alkahest take 1d6 points of damage whenever exposed to water. When submerged in water, or exposed to large amounts, they instead that 2d6 damage. When reduced to -10 hit points, they dissolve into a mass of solvent, as normal for Alkahest (This is usually lethal).

The Amazing Alkahest discovery adds no additional effects.

Criticisms welcome.

Also, I'll never again be able to look at the word Chassis without feeling like I'm spelling it wrong.

[sirpercival]

Alkahest sucks.
Cursed Lead is way too swingy (either really bad or really good) to be balanced.
Quicksilver is haxx0rz, like whoa.

Orichalcum you probably mean "hit dice", since hit die depends on creature type and class, and is randomized by RAW.

[Zale]

Alkahest sucks.
Cursed Lead is way too swingy (either really bad or really good) to be balanced.
Quicksilver is haxx0rz, like whoa.

Orichalcum you probably mean "hit dice", since hit die depends on creature type and class, and is randomized by RAW.

I'm getting weird deja vu.

Anyway, I was mostly trying to replicate the effects of the metals themselves. After all, you get most of those effects from being inside an enclosure made from the metal. I think you count as being inside your own skin, so..

Very little of what I added is something new.

I strongly considered adding acidic effects to Alkahest since, at the moment, it's really sad.

Being made of Cursed Lead does more or less make you immune to everything in the Enchantment and Transmutation schools, though it doesn't help at all with Evocation and Conjuration. For the sake of balance, it could be converted to infinite spell resistance, ala Golem.

And, yeah, Quicksilver is just hax.

I also made a Generic Big Flying Thing.

I made a Big Flying Thing.

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Name: Big Flying Thing
Principles: BIOY 101, BIOY 228, BIOY 340
Optional Principles: BIOY 273
Discoveries: Artificial Fleshshape
Items: 32 Cubic Feet of organic material or planetary metals.
Minimum Time: Sixty Six hours.

This blueprint has the basics for making a generic large flying ride spawned by Biollurgy, and could feasibly look like anything you'd like, from flying manta to dragon.

To begin, convert the material to biostructure with BIOY 101. Feel free to alter the shape as desired, to suit the final appearance.

Convert the biostructure to a chassis using BIOY 228. (This will take thirty two hours, so make sure to pack snacks.) Use the Artificial Fleshshape discovery so that the resulting chassis is a construct, and, if desired, install a cockpit.

When deciding on the strength and dexterity of the chassis, keep in mind that dexterity is only useful for armor class for this chassis.

If you have not installed a cockpit, use BIOY 273 to add instincts that insure the chassis obeys you.

Use BIOY 340 and/or BIOY 228 to add the Wings Graft and the Hauling Back graft (Optional), as well as any other desired grafts.

The creature's stat block is below. It assumes a heal check of 40, and an organic biostructure base, and a cockpit.

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Hit Dice: 4d10+60 (82 hp)
Initiative: -3
Speed: 70 ft, fly 70 ft
Armor Class: 7, touch 3, flat-footed 10 (-4 size, -3 dex, +4 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+31
Attack: -
Full Attack: -
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Biostructure Traits, Low Light Vision, Darkvision 60 ft
Saves: Fort +1, Ref -2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 43, Dex 5, Con —, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 2
Skills: -
Feats: -
Enviroment: Anywhere Gramaire is sold
Organization: Trade Convoy (1d4 Big Flying Things, 1 Driver per Big Flying Thing, 1d6 Guards per Big Flying Thing), Civilian Transport (1 Big Flying Thing, 1 Driver, 2d10 passengers)
Challange Rating: .25
Treasure: Standard in trade goods or passenger's effects.
Alignment: Always Neutral
Level Adjustment: —


The Big Flying Thing takes half damage from fire and electricity, and quarter damage from cold. It has a hardness of two and a break DC of 14. It does not eat, sleep or breathe.

The Big Flying Thing has a cockpit that any medium or smaller creature can use to operate it. A DC 10 Knowledge (arcana), Disable Device, or Ride check is required for every round of operation.

It can lift up to 28,000 pounds as a heavy load, up to 18,660 pounds as a medium load and up to 9320 pounds as a light load.

By default, it has the following graft slots: Arms (Wings), Body(Hauling Back), Eyes, Hands, Head, Legs, Shoulders, Throat, Torso, and Waist. It is a quadruped.

I feel like I forgot something on the stat block, though.

[DMwithoutPC's]

I was thinking more like low level. so 3-4 BIOL is not really an option

[Zale]

I was thinking more like low level. so 3-4 BIOL is not really an option

It has been brought to my attention that it's normally impossible to use wood engines to go faster than thirty feet per round. (This is a bug)

At level eight, you can use the Intricate Engineering discovery to reduce the engines to six inch cubes. (Which would have a bulk of either two or sixteen, depending on if you think they're Fine or Diminutive).

Those would let you go faster.

[The_Final_Stand]

WARNING: EFFORTPOST ON ELDRIKINETICS THAT IS MOSTLY WASTED.

Welcome to rocket science: The very propulsion systems you use to move you weigh you down.

The thrust to mass ratio is still greater than 1, so keep adding engines. The issue arises when you have to store fuel on the cart, since that will weigh you down as well. That's just the cart itself. The people on the cart have weight as well, so you need more engines, so you need more fuel, so you need more engines, and more fuel etc.

S.O. engines require 1 log of wood for operation. Let's assume one cubic foot of wood = 9 logs for simple maths. A cubic foot of wood has a Bulk of 27 (tiny size, no mass modifiers), so that's 3 bulk per minute of operation. Spare Bulk of 46 (push generated - bulk of engine) leaves us 15 minutes of operation maximum, just for the engine and the fuel for that engine, with 1 push left over.

So, for 15 mins of operation at 30ft per round, you need 343 engines to push that thing alone. Clearly, there is some room for improvement.

If we remove 5 mins of operation we have a ratio of 84/100 bulk/push, needing only 22 engines for 30ft per round for 10 mins.

Naturally, if you have a circuit generating enough ebbs for you, or you store the fuel in semi-spaces, fuel is less of a problem.

S.O. engines can never generate enough push to move themselves alone (and by extension, anything attached) faster than 30ft per round, no matter how many you stick together. Fuel one, push of 100, bulk of 54. Fuel 2, push of 200, bulk of 108. Fuel 3, push of 300, bulk of 162. Same ratio throughout. The number you stick together just determines how big an object you move. Later engines can go faster because they have a better push to bulk ratio, but even the lightningleap engine at a whopping 18.5 push to bulk ratio can only move at a maximum of 540 ft per round.

30ft per round is roughly 3.4 miles per hour (5 ft per second, 300 ft per minute, 18000 ft per hour, ft to mile according to Google gives 3.409). That's about walking pace. Enjoy your automobile. The lightningleap engine goes at 61.4 mph at most, which is actually reasonable, admittedly.

The only way to actually make things move more quickly with Eldrikinetics alone is literally to strap them in a ballistics engine and fire, since that doesn't add its weight to the object. With that, the sky's the limit, save for the Maximum Speed on the chart.

With the use of Yggdratecture, given that objects inside a semispace don't weigh anything, I think that any force to the inside of a space isn't counted, since they're weightless with respect to the outside, so Yggdratecture would only allow you to store as much fuel as you can fit into semi-spaces. Wolfram Alpha tells me you'd need 8 engines to push both the device and the engines.

ALCH 325 might help too, if you reduce the density of the material you are using you may be able to cut the bulk of the engines to the point where this isn't so much of a problem and you can make faster stuff. You'd eventually get "unusually light", for around 7.4 push to bulk ratio and therefore a max speed of 210 ft per round. That moves you at 24 miles per hour, substantially faster than everything that isn't a Dragon (seriously, look at the SRD, adults move at 20mph normally)

Eldrikinetics 101: Literally rocket science, if rocket science used v as its measure of fuel rather than delta v.

FAKEEDIT: wow that's a lot of words. In short: Use at least 8 engines depending on load, store the fuel/power system in semi-spaces, that will get you 30ft per round. If you have a Doctorate in Alchemetry, use ALCH 325 to cut the density of the engines and move up to 210ft per round.

DOUBLE FAKEEDIT COMBO; And only now do I realise that bulk is based on size, not mass. Which is actually helpful, because a Tiny object supposedly, according to the table, has a mass of max 8 lb, while an engine has a mass of 490lb, which is enough to class it as a Medium object which it can't actually push.

Aside:Those size tables make no sense. At maximum, 1ft^3 (limits of tiny) can weigh at most 8lb. Wolfram alpha converts 1lb per foot to 128 kg/m^3, which is approximately 1/2 the density of cork.

8 engines in a cube would be 2ft cubed. Does that still class it as a tiny object (bulk still 54 for push of 800), or a small object (bulk 128 to push of 800, which is way better than one engine regardless) which would make this actually make more sense and completely invalidate my effort?

Cynicism concludes yes.

DOUBLE TL:DR I wasted far too long on this post.

It's unclear how to calculate the Bulk of a completed craft. The way that RAW says is unless the engines bump you up a size category, use the Bulk of the size of the craft, possibly apply multipliers if the object is sufficiently dense.

[DMwithoutPC's]

snip

that's what I thought aswell, I just wanted someone smarter than me (or at least more experienced with science/rocketscience/gramarie) to say it aswell.

so...
What to do with my Character taking ELDR 101 feels extremely useless now. I guess I could still build a cart or something that let's us go 30 feet per round, just for the idea of us traveling more convertable... and having a very expensive, but very strong pack mule!

EDIT: even better. with the prices for Iron as stated earlier in this thread, a single engine costs 400 gold! I thought Iron was cheap!

[Milo v3]

More Reasonable Temperature Rules
By qazz, milo and zale
Each creature has a set Temperature Score (assume 20 degrees centigrade for most creatures).

A creature at a temperature:

• 20c higher than its temperature score must make a fort save (DC of 15 +1 per each previous check) or take 1d6 non-lethal damage, per hour.
• 40c higher than its temperature score takes 1d6 lethal damage, per minute.
• 70c higher than its temperature score takes 1d6 fire damage each round, plus an additional 1d6 per 30c higher.
• 20c lower than its temperature score must make a fort (DC of 15 +1 per
  each previous check) or take 1d6 non-lethal damage, per hour.
• 40c lower than its base temperature takes 1d6 lethal damage, per minute.
• 70c lower than its base temperature takes 1d6 cold damage each round, plus an additional 1d6 per 30c lower.

Creatures with Fire Resistance or Immunity applies it to lethal and non-lethal damage from high temperatures as if it was fire damage, while creatures with Cold Resistance or Immunity applies it to lethal and non-lethal damage from low temperatures as if it was cold damage.

Creatures healed through fire damage, heal from lethal and non-lethal damage from high temperatures. Creatures healed through cold damage, heal from lethal and non-lethal damage from low temperatures.

If the number of dice from this temperature damage would get too high to feasibly roll (such as 31d6 damage for normal Phlogiston), we suggest you take the average amount of damage rather than rolling it.

Example Temperatures
{table=head]Temperature|Damage|Average
-50 degrees|1d6 cold|3 cold
90 degrees|1d6 fire|3 fire
Boiling Water|1d6 fire|3 fire
Phlogiston|31d6 fire|108 fire
Lava|22d6 fire|77 fire
Sun Surface|181d6 fire|633 fire
[/table]
The damages are based on an average creature with a temperature score of 20.

Damage formula for Temperatures = ((t-40)/30)*d
t = The difference between the temperature and the creature's temperature score.
d = 1d6 fire damage if calculating for high temperatures, and 1d6 cold damage if calculating for low temperatures.

[Mith]

Some new Geocult principles:

Lay of the Land
Doctorate

This Princlpal allows you to shape your biome in any shape other than a circle, so long as said shape posseses the same area as circle that would normally be created to the nearest square foot.

Master of the Land
Theory

You are attunded to your biome to the point that any geocult pole of yours whch your apply this Theory to that you become immune to the effects of your biome at will.

Edit:, Changed Master of the Land to immunity to the enviroment.

[Zale]

Using the above temperature rules, I present the sword spawned from IRC madness.

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Name: Lightsabre
Principle: ALCH 364, KALD 101
Optional Principles: KALD 347
Discoveries: Colourgami
Optional Discoveries: Phlegmatic Phlogiston
Items: One hollow sword hilt, one small bead of iron.

Convert bead into Phlogiston. Red Filter in the shape of a half a sword blade around the Yellow Filter sphere, attached to the sword hilt. Inside the hilt of the sword, make a small spherical Yellow Filter with the bead inside it. Finish your Red Filter sword blade.

This ensures the bead stays inside the filter, while preventing the yellow filter from hitting metal or stone.

Optionally, use KALD 347 to make a Violet filter in the form of a scabbard, in order to prevent you from accidentally sticking your hand in your sword when not using it. (It also looks really cool.)

The inside of the filter is now a cheerful 1000C (2000C with the Phlogiston discovery.)

Enjoy.
{table=head]Name|Cost|Dmg(S)|Dmg(M)|Critical|Range Increment|Weight|Type
Red Sabre|

100 GP

|

Special, see below.

|

Special, see below.

|

-

|

-

|

1 lb.

|

Special, see below.

[/table]

A Red Sabre deals 2d10 fire damage. When made with Phlegmatic Phlogiston, it instead deals 4d10 fire damage. Regardless, any creatures or objects struck by the sabre must make a DC 14 reflex save or catch on fire.

All attacks with a Red Sabre are touch attacks.*

Comes with violet filter scabbard.

*Barring red filter based armor.

Oh, and updated the planetary metal chassis things.


For clarification:
*All chassis made from planetary metals have damage reduction equal to their hardness, as normal.
*Chassis are immune to poisonous metals they are made of.
*Chassis made from metals have the resistances and traits of objects, as normal.

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Carmot

Chassis made of Carmot do not take penalties for aging. Additionally, the Heal check of their creator is treated as double for the purpose of determining their maximum age when preparing BIOY 381. They also have a alchemical bonus equal to their hit dice against poison and disease.

Those made with with the Continual Carmot discovery gain fast healing as normal. They are also now immune to all poison and disease.

Sunmetal

Chassis made of Sunmetal are immune to negative levels caused by Radiomantic energy. When reduced to -10 hitpoints, they explode causing 1d6 points of Hellfire damage per hit die and 1d4 negative levels to every creature in a fifty foot radius. Any creature the chassis strikes with their natural weapons or unarmed attacks, or hits the chassis with their natural weapons or unarmed attacks, gains one negative level.

The Sublime Sunmetal discovery increases the radius to a hundred feet, and causes it to inflict 2d4 negative levels. This also causes the chassis to inflict a negative level per round to every creature within five feet.

Cursed Lead

Chassis made from Cursed Lead are affected by a personal anti-magic field. They are immune to any spell that allow spell resistance. They are also considered to be covered in lead for the purpose of foiling certain divination spells, and are immune to lead poisoning.

With the addition of the Cursed Lead discovery, they may only act every other round, as normal.

Quicksilver

Chassis made from Quicksilver may take an additional standard or move action every round. However, the heal check of their creator is treated as halved for the purpose of determining maximum age when preparing BIOY 381. They are unaffected by mercury poisoning.

The Quixotic Quicksilver discovery inflicts this effect on any creature touching the chassis during their turn.

Phlogiston

Chassis made from Phlogiston are immune to fire damage. Creatures within five feet of them take 2d8 fire damage every round, and their natural weapons or unarmed attacks deal an additional 2d8 fire damage and cause those hit to catch on fire (DC 17 reflex save). The damage and reflex save also apply to any creature that successfully attacks the chassis with their natural weapons or unarmed attacks.*

Unlike most Chassis, they have no resistance to cold energy.

Phlegmatic Phlogiston increases the fire damage dealt to 4d8, and the area effected by their fiery aura to five feet for every size category above medium. Weapons wielded by the Chassis are now treated as if they had the flaming enchantment.


*Optionally, you may make use of these alternate temperature rules, in which case every creature within five feet (Or ten with Phlegmatic Phlogiston) takes 31d6 fire damage every round, and causes the same amount of damage with any natural weapons or unarmed attacks.

Orichalcum

Chassis made from Orichalcum can store ebbs, as normal. They may, as a standard action, channel a number of these ebbs equal to their hit dice to any ebb-accepting device they are touching.

The Oefficient Orichalcum discovery doubles the amount of ebbs that may be channeled, and causes them to gain 1d6 ebbs every twenty four hours. (At noon, dawn, dusk or midnight, as decided at their creation.)

Moonsteel

Chassis made from Moonsteel can see onto the Ethereal plane, and their natural weapons and unarmed attacks can hit Ethereal creatures.

With the Mysterious Moonsteel discovery, while carrying no more than a light load, they are treated as if under the effects of feather fall. They may enter, or leave, the Ethereal plane as a swift action.

Alkahest

Chassis made from Alkahest take 1d6 points of damage whenever exposed to water. When submerged in water, or exposed to large amounts, they instead that 2d6 damage. When reduced to -10 hit points, they dissolve into a mass of solvent, as normal for Alkahest (This is usually lethal). Their natural weapons and unarmed attacks deal an additional 2d6 acid damage*, and they are immune to acid.

The Amazing Alkahest discovery increases the acid damage dealt to 2d12. Additionally, 2d6 acid damage is dealt to any weapons that strike the chassis.

*Keep in mind that acid damage ignores object hardness.

Feedback is, as always, awesome.

[qazzquimby]

All attacks are touch attacks *unless* the target is wearing armor made out of red filters for some reason.

[Zale]

All attacks are touch attacks *unless* the target is wearing armor made out of red filters for some reason.

Woops. I made note of that now.

And simplified some of the metal rules, which were getting convoluted.

I also realized you'd need some amount of yellow filter to keep the Phlogiston in place. Luckily, clever use of space insures this does not impact the sword itself.

[Rolep]

even better. with the prices for Iron as stated earlier in this thread, a single engine costs 400 gold! I thought Iron was cheap!

How is it 400gp? It's 50gp.

More Reasonable Temperature Rules
By qazz, milo and zale

I really like this, mainly because it helps me with Plasma in CNJY 132.

Some new Geocult principles:

Lay of the Land
Doctorate

This Princlpal allows you to shape your biome in any shape other than a circle, so long as said shape posseses the same area as circle that would normally be created to the nearest square foot.

This should be a discovery. There is no reason for it to be a principle.

Master of the Land
Theory (Maybe Doctorate)

You are attunded to your biome to the point that any geocult pole of yours whch your apply this principle to gives you the ability to know wheneve creatures enter your biome (Hide vs. Perception+Geocultist Level to avoid detection). Once a creature is detected, you will know there location in your biome. If a creature succeeds thier initial Hide check, the Geocultist can activily search thier biome, causing the creature to reroll thier Hide check.

Perception isn't a 3.5 skill. Again this is quite a minor effect, so it should be a discovery. However, it is too easy to succeed the check, so change it to Hide vs. Survival.

Lightsabre

Me gusta!

[qazzquimby]

The Dethanatologist

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"Why do you bury perfectly functional organic machines? A soul is a side effect. This is where efficiency begins."

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Image credit ~Vermin-Star of deviantart.com

The Dethanatologist is not afraid of the more controversial studies, utilizing resources others are too squeamish to touch. Conventional ethical principles are shackles, holding the world from its true potential.

Requirements: To become a dethanatologist you must meet all of the following requirements.
Gramarie: Two principles in each of at least two separate disciplines.
Specialization: Any
Skills: Craft (Any) 13 ranks

Hit Die: d6
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifer

Class Skills: A dethanatologist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (the Planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis) and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Dethanatologist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|

Principles

1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Atrocity, mortuus surrectum I|

+0

2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Mad science, something|

+1

3rd|+1|+3|+1|+3|Atrocity|

+2

4th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Doctorate principles, mad science|

+3

5th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Atrocity, something|

+3

6th|+3|+5|+2|+5|Mad science, mortuus surrectum II|

+4

7th|+3|+5|+2|+5|Atrocity|

+5

8th|+4|+6|+2|+6|Mad science|

+6

9th|+4|+6|+3|+6|Atrocity, something|

+6

10th|+5|+7|+3|+7|Mad science, mortuus surrectum III|

+7

[/table]

All of the following are class features of the dethanatologist.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As a dethanatologist, you gain no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

Atrocity (Su): Your study of the thin line between life and death yields you some control over its workings. At first level, and every 2 levels after, choose one of the following abilities:

• Final Push: With the smallest of nudges you can pull a creature from death, or push it over the edge. As a touch attack you can instantly stabilize or kill a dying creature.
  
• Ask Questions Later: With some practice, you can contact a soul after it escapes the body, getting the final word in any argument. By touching a corpse that died within the last minute, you may ask the spirit of the departing soul a single question. Impolite souls may give brief, cryptic, or repetitive answers.
  
• And the Clock Stopped: Machines have their own kind of life, though not one that most understand. Machines live off causality, as each gear naturally pushes the next. You can kill that too. By touching a purely physical machine (with no use of magic, psionic, gramaric, truenaming, or any of that hooha) you can make a disable device check with a +10 bonus, as you rust the pistons and loosen the springs. Anything stopped with this ability can be prepared with the relevant check against a DC of your disable device check -10.
  
• Finally, I Fit In: Probably from spending too much time working with bone, you’ve become far enough from the living that the undead hold no fascination with you. You may act as if you are under the effects of a hide from undead spell, or dismiss the effect, as free actions.
  
• And Lived to Tell the Tale:Trapping souls just takes practice, and you’ve always got one on hand to play with. By trapping your soul in your body you can survive with negative hit points for one minute per class level after falling under 0 hit points, though you still fall unconscious. If you fall beneath -10 hp, your body must be healed up to at least 0 to stabilize.
  
• The Other Side: Almost every creature has an instinctual fear of death, and death is your specialty. You can cast cause fear as a touch attack.
  
• Delicious Jams and Preserves: A fresh corpse is much nicer than an old smelly one, and you’ve become quite practiced at preserving bodies for later use. You can cast gentle repose as a full round action.
  
• Mandatory Donation: With a rather fun trick you’ve mastered, you can tease the life force out of a creature and redirect it to a more deserving target. As a standard action you may make two targets within 30ft. Unwilling targets are allowed a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 level + Cha mod). You may drain up to half your class level in damage to one target, and heal the other target by the same amount.
  
• Until it Fell Still: You’ve watched a lot of things die over the years, and you’ve become attuned to all the little signs and twitches of a creature’s final moments. You are treated as if always under the effects of deathwatch.
  
• Broken Pieces: Conventional fighting strategies work to make a living creature dead. Trying to make a dead creature dead is redundant. You know exactly how these animations work, and exactly how to bring them down. You gain a bonus to attack equal to one third of your class level whenever targeting an undead, construct, or creature with the reanimated subtype, and such targets are not immune to your critical hits.

Something (Ex): This will do a thing. Probably.

Principles of Gramarie: You continue to advance your study of gramarie. At the levels indicated on the table above, you learn a new principle of gramarie that you qualify for. Your Dethanatologist levels stack with your levels in one other gramarie base classes to determine what tier of principles you can learn (choose which base class when you enter the class). At all times, your choice of specialty dictates which individual principles are available for you to learn.

Mad Science: There are things society is afraid to look at, let alone produce in bulk. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn an ability due to your unrestricted access to the darker sides of the gramaric disciplines, chosen from the following list:

• Of flesh and metal: You can create a new metal with the ALCH286 principle: Bone. Bone has the following statistics
  {table=head]Metal|Hardness|Hit Points Per Inch|Melting Point|Boiling Point|Break DC Modifier|Diplomacy DC|Density
  Bone|5|5|842 °C|1484 °C|-4|55|54 lb/cubic foot[/table]
  Bone is not a very hard, or durable material, but it is light and easy to work with. Bone created by this principle has a noticeable quality. Anything in direct contact with bone withers and dies much faster than it normally would, effectively aging 10 times as quickly (although this is not a time related effect). While this effect is not very noticeable in small doses, a touching flower will quickly whither, and a person in frequent contact will slowly grow frail. Bone ascends into wightstone, which appears similar to ivory. wightstone is much more potent than bone, and effectively ages materials 10 years for every round in which they make any contact.
  
• Animus Aflame: You can create a bone transformer with the ARCD204 principle. A bone transformer channels souls.
  • Input: A bone input absorbs souls. A sentient creature (one with a natural intelligence greater than three) within the net must make a Will save (DC 10 + 5 per ARCD principle you know) or take one point of int damage. When a creature reaches 0 intelligence inside the net, all int damage is converted to int drain, and the creature becomes mindless as their soul is sucked from their body. This generates ebbs equal to the creature's natural int score (unaltered by damage, drain, or temporary effects) multiplied by its HD, divided by four.
  • Output: A bone output produces souls. Any living, non-sentient (with a natural intelligence of less than three) creature within the net has their intelligence changed to 3d6. Such creatures may have the intelligence of an adult, but the experiences of a newborn. One soul is given to a creature for each 12 ebbs supplied to the bone output.
  
  
• Getting creative:You may treat a mass of biostructure as a corpse when using any of your mortuus surrectum abilities.
  (Actually you could already do that, with dead biostructure. egh.)
  
• Eery introduction: You can bind a new kind of elemental with CONT 202, one that both excites and disgusts. The flesh elemental, or alimental, has all the traits of an elemental, but is distinctly different from other known elementals. Flesh seems to be unable to produce para or quasi-elementals, and there have been no flesh elementals smaller than huge.
  
• Departing visions: You gain access to the bone rod, as described in DVPY 239, when using DVPY 101.
  
• Field of stones: You gain the ability to create a new kind of geoccult pole: the Bone pole.
  
  Spoiler

  Show

  
  {table=head]Metal|Critical DC|Biome|Baseline Terrain
  Bone|25|Graveyard|Cold earth[/table]

  • Graveyard (Cold earth) Cold earth is tightly packed dirt on which little will grow. Cold earth appears desaturated, and is unusually cool to the touch, hence the name. Inanimate corpses slowly sink into cold earth, submerging entirely after 24 hours. Submerged corpses continue to sink until they are six feet under ground, before stopping. While submerged, corpses decompose at half speed. An animated submerged corpse takes 1 minute to dig themself out. The climate inside in a graveyard is dry and temparate.
  • Graveyard [Bone] A bone pole allows you to spread a graveyard biome. A graveyard has cold earth as its baseline, and additional terrain features include tombestones, empty graves, mausoleums, morgues, trees and fences.
    • Tombstone: A tombstone can be placed above a submerged corpse. It is a tall stone plate, with the corpses name, birth year and death year chiseled across it's face. When placing the tombstone, you may choose a short inscription of 1-12 words to write along with the other information. A tombstone can provide between 1/4 cover to 1/2 cover, depending on it's shape, decided upon generation. A tombstone costs 15 lb.
    • Empty grave: An empty grave appears as an approximately person shaped hole in the ground, about 5 ft deep, and functions as a pit trap. A pile of loose soil lays next to the empty grave, and the grave can be filled as a standard action, submerging anything in the pit at the time. Buried living creatures begin to suffocate. Empty graves cost 5 lb.
    • Mausoleum: A mausoleum is a 15 by 20ft ornate stone or marble building for housing the dead. A corpse left inside a mausoleum is decays at half speed as if it was submerged. A mausoleum costs 50 lb.
    • Morgue: The morgue sees two uses, as well as a lot of bodies. Anyone examining a body to determine the details of it's death gain a +8 to the check while inside a morgue. Additionally, a morgue generates one coffin every 6 hours so long as it has four of fewer inside it. These coffins degenerate if brought outside of the biome. Corpses inside coffins decompose half as quickly. This stacks with the effects of being submerged. Every coffin generated, and every time it's bonus is used, costs 10 lb.
    • Trees: The trees found in a graveyard are dead and withered, with branches like gnarled limbs. These trees usually contain a large hole, perfect for the perching of an owl or hiding of an object. These work like light trees, described in the SRD. Graveyard trees cost 5lb and occoupy a neligible space. Graveyard trees cannot be placed within 10ft of another tree.
    • Fence: Usually placed around the edge of the biome, the fence is 10ft tall, black iron, and usually ornately decorated. It takes a dc 20 climb check to climb the bars. Each bar is 1 inch thick, and is made of iron. A fence costs 5lb for every 5ft of length.

  
  {table=head]Metal|Terrain|Climate Condition|Extreme Weather Condition
  Bone|Graveyard|Gloom|Blood rain[/table]
  

  • Bone (Gloom): The area inside a graveyard is drained of life. Everything seems cold, desaturated, and dark. Lighting conditions are one step darker than normal, with daylight reduced to low-light, and anything much darker reduced to total darkness. Gloom requires 50 lb to get started, and 10 lb per hour to maintain.
  • Bone (Blood rain): In a nightmarish shower, cursed blood pours from the sky. Every round a creature spends exposed to the rain causes it to take 1d6 vile damage and must succeed at a saving throw (DC 10 + your ranks in surival) or receive one taint. Blood rain cots 100 lb to start, and lasts an hour.
  • Graveyard [Bone]: A graveyard's supernatural terrain features include meat machines, blood moons, and Scripture:
    • Meat machine: A meat machine is a large, horrific contraption, which generates organic flesh. Every meal for a medium creature generated by the meat machine costs 5lb of bone.
    • Blood moon: The bloodmoon replaces the normal moon in the sky while the observer is inside the biome, and is a great, deranged, grinning sphere. The first time a creature sees the blood moon they must make a will save (DC 10 + your ranks in survival) or be shaken for one hour. Whenever a creature inside the biome is brought to less than 0 hit points, the moon laughs hysterically, and can be heard anywhere within the biome. The moon keeps a count of how many HD of creatures have died within the last hour. As creatures die within the biome, the moon gradually becomes more twisted and terrifying, as it's eyes bulge and its lips back. After 50 HD of creatures have died within the last hour, the moon starts the blood rain weather effect for free, with the blood originating from the moon's mouth. This effect is maintained as long as there have been 50 HD of deaths within the last hour. The blood moon costs 20 lb per hour.
    • Scripture: A scripture is a great scroll, usually resting in a protected space near the pole. Creating the scripture costs 10lb per 7 words of instruction. After completion, all mindless undead in the area follow the instructions whenever possible, as if controlled. All creatures controlled by the scripture gain turn resistance equal to their HD. The scripture burns 10lb or bone per hour of control.
• Mass conformity: You can make a new kind of Psychomantic receiver, called an absolute receiver. Absolute receivers can only be implanted in mindless creatures, and cease to function if the creature gains intelligence above 0. Absolute receivers can send a special kind of proposition called an instinct as well as normal propositions. Instead of choosing from listed causes and effects, the causes for instincts can be anything the creature can sense, and the effects can be any course of action the creature could take. Effects from instincts never grant mechanical benefits. If a creature with an absolute receiver is inside a network with other creatures with absolute receivers, all instincts are copied over to all other creatures with absolute receivers. If multiple instincts have identical causes, the newest instinct overrides the older.
  
• Post-mortem education: Mindless creatures with the reanimated subtype can be given commands while inside a heuristical bubble, as a standard action or logical decision. This acts as controlling undead normally, but a list of instructions can be set.
  
• Entropic energies: You can create an onyx refractor with PUIS 101.
  Antiparitiser: This refractor is formed from onyx and makes all puissance that passes through it cease its glow, and turn a dull grey-green. Refracted puissance has its internal spin reversed, becoming anti-ebbs. Anti-ebbs can only be supplied to a device which can produce puissance, such as an input transformer. The device processes the anti-ebbs to produce fuel, equal to the amount and type that the device would require to generate an equal number of ebbs.
  
  One cubic foot of Onyx weighs 165 lb and costs 3000gp.
  
• Eternal storage: You can make a sepulcherous vessel with RLQD 101.
  A sepulcherous vessel acts as a aeonic vessel while it contains a living creature, and acts as a stagnant vessel while it does not.
  It's like an easy bake oven for making dead people.
  
• Improvised animation: When making a hybrid with any TRNV principle, you may treat inanimate objects as if they were constructs, by making them animate objects for the purposes of the hybridization. Half sword, half fish. Half pizza, half delivery boy. Half train, half conductor. Oh the possibilities.
  
• Eternal storage: You can create phylacteric flux with YGGD212. Phylacteric fluxes must be keyed to creatures before they provide an effect. The flux can key to any living creature adjacent or inside it as a standard action or logical decision. Afterwards, when that creature dies, their soul is moved to the phylacteric flux, instead of moving on to whichever afterlife would normally claim it. If the flux is destroyed, the soul naturally moves to it's appropriate afterlife.
  

Mortuus Surrectum I (Ex):
As a standard action, you may animate a corpse of up to 2HD/class level. This reanimated creature, called a necromaton, is not powered by negative energy, and is closer to a construct than an undead. The creature gains the reanimated subtype, given below. You probably want to read that now.
Fresh corpses (those who died less than 1 hour / HD ago) are animated without any template. Mostly undecayed corpses (usually those less than a month old outside, or a year old in a coffin) are raised with the zombie template, while older corpses are raised as skeletons. All necromatons keep their former type, but gain the reanimated subtype.
All necromatons except skeletons can gain puissance from eating food. Every full meal a necromaton eats grants it ebbs equal to half of its full reserve.
Necromatons are mindless and only have the basic instinct to try to gain puissance, first by eating anything edible to their species, and then by interacting with gramaric machines.

Mortuus Surrectum II (Ex):
At your choice, necromatons you create can reclaim their souls as if being resurrected. The animated creature is the same as a normal necrotomaton, but has the int score it had in life (and is therefore probably not mindless), and has the memories and personality of its former self. These necromatons generate puissance as normal for a creature.
Alternatively, you can be not quite so generous with the necromaton, giving it back only it’s implicit memories. You may choose to grant necromatons the skills they had in life, but leave them with int 0.

Mortuus Surrectum III (Ex):
It’s time to get arts and craftsy. You may choose to give any necromaton with atleast 15 HD that you create, the Gramaric Creature template.

Reanimated subtype

Spoiler: Reanimated Subtype:

Show

No constitution
Intelligence 0
No soul
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects
Immunity to poison
Cannot heal damage
Not subject to critical hits
Immune to effects that require fort saves
No death from massive damage
No breathing, eating or sleeping
Maximum internal puissance reserve equal to max hp
Cannot gain puissance above maximum reserve
Loses 1 ebb of puissance every hour and after every round in which the creature takes atleast one action.
Loses puissance equal to damage taken
Becomes inanimate if internal puissance reaches 0

Better formatting coming soon.

[sirpercival]

Master of the Land
Theory (Maybe Doctorate)

You are attunded to your biome to the point that any geocult pole of yours whch your apply this principle to gives you the ability to know wheneve creatures enter your biome (Hide vs. Perception+Geocultist Level to avoid detection). Once a creature is detected, you will know there location in your biome. If a creature succeeds thier initial Hide check, the Geocultist can activily search thier biome, causing the creature to reroll thier Hide check.

You realize that this is made obsolete by DVPY 101?

[Zale]

A chassis built with these guidelines and a few weapons to go along with it.

Spoiler: Smoking Seraph Genesis

Show

Name: Smoking Seraph Genesis
Principles:ALCH 364, BIOY 101, BIOY 228, BIOY 234, BIOY 273, BIOY 340
Optional Principles:BIOY 191
Discoveries: Phlegmatic Phlogiston, Sublime Sunmetal, Bizzare Fleshshape
Items: Six cubic feet of iron, Five cubic feet of gold.

Convert the iron into Phlogiston and the gold into Sunmetal using ALCH 364.

Next, use BIOY 101 to transform four cubic feet of Phlogiston and the same amount of Sunmetal into Biostructure. Shape in the form of a large humanoid, gendered as desired.

Use BIOY 228 to turn the biostructure into a free standing large chassis with the outsider type, then use BIOY 234 to transform it into an elite chassis, which raises it's hit dice to three.

Use BIOY 228 and BIOY 340 to give the chassis the Wings, Blinding Beauty, Tongues and Slam grafts.

Finally, use BIOY 273 to give the chassis whatever instincts you desire, then make the chassis sentient.

Use the 2 cubic feet of Sunmetal/Phlogiston left over to create a Deathly (See below) weapon(s) for your Smoking Seraph.

Optionally, convert 1 cubic foot of Phlogiston into biostructure, then use BIOY 191 to create a biostructure Phlogiston bow and arrows.

Your Seraph is native to whatever plane it was created on.

Spoiler: Stat Block

Show

This chassis was made with a heal check of 65.

Smoking Seraph
Size/Type: Large Outsider
Hit Dice: 3d8+18 (31 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 40 ft, fly 40 ft.
Armor Class: 15, touch 15, flat-footed 9 (-1 size, +6 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+13
Attack: Deathly Longsword +9 melee (1d8+6/(19-20)x2 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level) Slam +8 (1d8+6 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level)
Full Attack: Deathly Longsword +8 melee (1d8+6/(19-20)x2 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level) Slam +8 (1d8+6 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Blinding Beauty, Aura of Fire and Light.
Special Qualities: Immune to fire and radiomantic negative levels, Biostructure Resistances, Tongues.
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +3
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 23, Con 23, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +12, Diplomacy +6, Heal +6, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Listen +6, Spot +6, Use Magic Device +6
Feats: Improved Initiative, Hover
Environment: The Quasi-Elemental Plane of Ash.
Organization: A Host (1d6 Smoking Seraphs).
Challenge Rating: ??
Treasure: Standard, and Deathly Longsword.
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral.
Advancement: By hit dice or level
Level Adjustment: —


A shimmering figure of shining metal looms before you. Heat streams off it as it stretches fiery wings in flight.

Blinding Beauty (Su)

Creatures viewing the Smoking Seraphs must make a DC 10 will save or be turned permanently blind. Those who make the save are immune to further saves for twenty-four hours.

Aura of Fire and Light (Su)

As creatures of Phlogiston and Sunmetal, Smoking Seraphs cause all creatures within twenty feet to take 4d8 fire damage per round. Creatures within fifteen feet take a negative level per round.

Creatures hit by a Smoking Seraph's natural weaponry or unarmed strikes take 4d8 fire damage and a negative level. This effect also applies if they strike the Smoking Seraph with their natural weaponry or unarmed strikes, or otherwise touch them.

Biostructure Traits (Ex)

Smoking Seraphs take quarter damage from electricity and cold, and have a hardness of 5.

Tongues (Su)

Smoking Seraphs can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level 14th). This ability is always active.

Spoiler: Weapons

Show

{table=head]Name|Cost|Dmg(S)|Dmg(M)|Critical|Range Increment|Weight|Type

Deathly Longsword|

750 gp

|

1d6

|

1d8

|

19-20/×2

|

5 ft.

|

4 lb.

|

Slashing

Highly Unfun Net|

500 gp

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

10 ft

|

12 lb.

|

-

[/table]

A Deathly weapon is made from a mixture of reinforced Phlogiston and Sunmetal. It deals an additional 2d8* (4d8 if made from Phlegmatic Phlogiston) fire damage and one negative level. Any creature holding a Deathly is dealt one negative level per round, as well as 4d8 fire damage.

The Highly Unfun Net is made of a mixture of reinforced Cursed Lead, Phlogiston and Sunmetal. In addition to the normal effects of a net, the Unfun Net inflicts 2d8 (4d8 with Discovery) fire damage and one negative level every round that a creature is entangled in it. It also incloses the creature in an anti-magic field. If made with the Lethargic Lead discovery, the net also affects the inclosed creature as if by the slow spell.

The Escape Artist DC for this net is 30, and the burst DC is 35. It has twenty hit points.

* This is based on these guidelines for chassis. If you would prefer to use the alternate temperature rules it is 31d6 fire damage per round for being within five feet of normal Phlogiston.

Spoiler: Example Warrior

Show

Seraph Ivaria the Radiant Fighter 4
Size/Type: Large Outsider
Hit Dice: 3d8+3d10+36 (64 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 40 ft, fly 40 ft.
Armor Class: 17, touch 15, flat-footed 9 (-1 size, +6 dex, +2 Dragonhide leather armor)
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+17
Attack: Deathly Trident +14 melee (1d8+6/(19-20)x2 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level) / Slam +13 (1d8+6 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level) / Unfun Net +12 (Entangle plus 4d6 fire and one negative level) / Phlogiston Bow (+5 Strength bonus) +12 (1d8x3 + 4d8 fire).
Full Attack: Deathly Trident +14/+10 melee (1d8+6/(19-20)x2 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level) or Slam +12/+8 (1d8+6 plus 4d8 fire damage and one negative level)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Blinding Beauty, Aura of Fire and Light.
Special Qualities: Immune to fire and radiomantic negative levels, Biostructure Resistances, Tongues.
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +10, Will +4
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 23, Con 23, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +13, Diplomacy +6, Heal +6, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Listen +6, Spot +6, Use Magic Device +6
Feats: Improved Initiative, Hover, Weapon Focus (Trident), Exotic Weapon Prof. (Net), Two Weapon Fighting, Net and Trident
Environment: The Quasi-Elemental Plane of Ash.
Organization: A Host (1d6 Smoking Seraphs).
Challenge Rating: ??
Treasure: Standard, with Deathly Trident and Unfun Net.
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral.
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: —

Blinding Beauty (Su)

Creatures viewing the Smoking Seraph must make a DC 10 will save or be turned permanently blind. Those who make the save are immune to further saves for twenty-four hours.

Aura of Fire and Light (Su)

As creatures of Phlogiston and Sunmetal, Smoking Seraph cause all creatures within twenty feet to take 4d8 fire damage per round. Creatures within fifteen feet take a negative level per round.

Creatures hit by a Smoking Seraph's natural weaponry or unarmed strikes take 4d8 fire damage and a negative level. This effect also applies if they strike the Smoking Seraph with their natural weaponry or unarmed strikes, or otherwise touch them.

Biostructure Traits (Ex)

Smoking Seraphs take quarter damage from electricity and cold, and have a hardness of 5.

Tongues (Su)


Smoking Seraphs can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level 14th). This ability is always active.


Tactics

In the first round Ivaria will usually win initiative, and try to pull in close enough to toss her net over her foe(s). (Preferably a spellcaster) If successful, she will generally make use of her Net and Trident feat to make a full attack with her trident against the poor sucker in the net.

Anyone touching the net, or going within five feet of it starts eating fire damage and negative levels, so the person inside it is unlikely to get help. Going near Ivaria offers the same promise of fire and level drain.

If allowed to take her net throw and full attack combo, she will do about 12d8 fire damage and inflict three negative levels on the person in the net, in addition to the damage from the trident itself. And with any luck at least one of her enemies will have been struck blind.

Even rounds in which Ivaria does not act inflict another negative level and 4d8 fire damage on the netted person and everyone near them- or her.

Because of this, she usually turns her attention to another target, leaving the original to slowly wither. As she recognizes that she is most powerful in close ranges, she tries to constantly affect multiple people with her aura.

Spellcaster are at the top of her priorities, as they can possibly damage or incapacitate her without hurting themselves in the process.

If the battle turns sour, Ivaria will take to the skies and hover while taking shots with her bow. (Which itself deals 4d8 fire damage). However, this is usually a sign that she is loosing, as it abandons her primary advantage.

[Grek]

If you prepare a pair of alternating fluxes on opposite ends of a ten foot pole, and then alternate them, what happens to the pole? What if it were a three foot pole instead?

[Milo v3]

If you prepare a pair of alternating fluxes on opposite ends of a ten foot pole, and then alternate them, what happens to the pole? What if it were a three foot pole instead?

Doesn't it not move things if it's attached to things outside of the bubble? Which would mean it does nothing.

[Grek]

Currently, the text is as follows:

Alternating: This kind of flux acts like normal space, except that it has a special property when linked with another such flux. If you prepare two such fluxes, you can make a logical decision inside of one of them to perform an alternation with the other. This swaps all physical objects, creatures, substances, and so on, which are within the flux boundaries, to the other flux. Objects and creatures and so on appear in their original orientation and configuration, with no harm done to them. There is a Reflex save to avoid this effect (DC 5 + 5 for every YGGD principle you know), in which case the victim lunges out of the bubble before alternation. Note that everything loose inside the bubble is swapped; you cannot make an exception for certain people or objects. This alternation does not move fixed terrain features, but loose environmental objects inside the field are moved. There are a few caveats: the fluxes must be the same size, which means that if you enlargen one of them with extra work, the alternation effect won't work again until you embiggen the other one as well. Additionally, each flux can only be tied to a single other entangled flux. You can activate the alternation from either side of the flux pair, or you can lock it during preparation such that the swap can only be made from one of them. The connection maintains itself no matter how far apart the fluxes are taken, including onto other Planes.

A 10' pole is probably not a terrain feature, and it certainly isn't fixed: a human could lift one single handed.

A 3' pole would be entirely inside both bubbles, which makes it even more confusing..

[Milo v3]

Currently, the text is as follows:



A 10' pole is probably not a terrain feature, and it certainly isn't fixed: a human could lift one single handed.

A 3' pole would be entirely inside both bubbles, which makes it even more confusing..

Note the use of the word Loose allot.
If it's attached to something outside the bubble, it isn't a loose object.

[Grek]

That still doesn't answer what happens in the 3' case. It's entirely inside both bubbles, so that can't be an issue.

[Milo v3]

That still doesn't answer what happens in the 3' case. It's entirely inside both bubbles, so that can't be an issue.

... It swaps position with itself making it not move? That would be my assumption.

[Mith]

This should be a discovery. There is no reason for it to be a principle.

Noted. Will change.

Perception isn't a 3.5 skill. Again this is quite a minor effect, so it should be a discovery. However, it is too easy to succeed the check, so change it to Hide vs. Survival

Will change.

Do people think that Master of Land Geni Loci should be scrapped due to Divintropy? I could add immunity to the effects of your biome to make it unique.

[Grek]

... It swaps position with itself making it not move? That would be my assumption.

The rules say the objects alternated "appear in their original orientation and configuration". If the pole remains in the same location, then it has effectively changed configuration, since it started at the origin of one the flux and ended up 3' away from the origin of the other instead of starting at the origin of one and ending up at the origin of the other. If you rotate (or reflect) the staff to prevent a change to configuration, it ends up in a different orientation. A paradox!

The essential problem is that the flux needs to teleport a single object to two places at once in order to fulfill all of the requirements, but isn't allowed to duplicate items. Ultimately, I think the best solution may be to declare that alternating fluxes cannot alternate with one another while overlapping.

@Mith: I agree with Rolep that Lay of the Land should be a discovery at best. Keep in mind though that A] biomes are actually spheres, not circles and B] you can already have them be cubes (or any other shape) by not using all of your area. This discovery essentially allows you to have irregular biomes cheaper.

Master of the Land should be a feat, not a principle. Or possibly a class feature for a Geoccultist specialist class. Also, it needs an action type for searching the biome.

[DMwithoutPC's]

How is it 400gp? It's 50gp.

It wasn't. I thought it was because iron is 50 gold per cubic feet, and I thought a engine was 8 cubic feet

In the old version, before Kellus changed the size of an engine to one cubic feet, it was 400 gold

[Mith]

@Mith: I agree with Rolep that Lay of the Land should be a discovery at best. Keep in mind though that A] biomes are actually spheres, not circles and B] you can already have them be cubes (or any other shape) by not using all of your area. This discovery essentially allows you to have irregular biomes cheaper.

Master of the Land should be a feat, not a principle. Or possibly a class feature for a Geoccultist specialist class. Also, it needs an action type for searching the biome.

I had missed the fact that a biome can be non spherical. The idea of Lay of the Land is so that you can seamlessly join multiple biomes. A spherical biome won't seamlessly join with other biomes, unless you allow for overlap, which is inefficient. Is it still considered a good theory though?

As for Mater of the Land, I have changed it so that you have immunity to the effects of the biome. I was wondering if ading a movement bonus wiould also be a good move, since you will know the fastest way to transverse your biome.

[Grek]

Geoccult poles create very large bubbles, but they're still subject to the usual rule that you can always choose to exclude any area within the radius when preparing a bubble.