Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

[Reddish Mage]

Spoiler of spoiler. Just saiyan.

Spoiler: The Winner is..

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Might Guy. Even taking All Might at his word, he can't beat Might Guy...... when he's scaled to Naruto.The fact that they had to resort to such makes the entire endeavor feel cheapened. Sure, All Might was scaled to what he said, but I felt that Guy had enough on screen feats to NOT need additional scaling in that manner. Especially since it goes back to the fact that the moon feat needs an * since it was hollow, and the light fang attack is suspect as well. To add to it, Guy technically DIED, with people in the comments section pointing out that it should of been a double K.O. going just off the visuals.

There is no next time, since the new season of it starts January 26, with the frequency going up to every two weeks..

Spoiler: Might vs Might

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Love the animation worthy of a season ending. The outcome was what I thought it should be but I was hoping for more analysis.

I think its especially problematic they just scaled Might Guy to Naruto. Naruto’s blast that took out the moon was a special sort of blast using “all his chakra” as a bomb. Might Guy doesn’t have a similar move...he just punches people. Sure, end of Naruto heroes and villains are definitely doing stuff way beyond anything we see anyone in the MHA universe ever do, and Might Guy iS definitely in that end-game caliber, however, it would be more satisfying if we could find a technique he did directly to compare to plus ultra...or find a technique he more obviously scales to, like other taijutsu.

All-Mights abilities are way beyond nearly every other hero in the MHA universe. All-Might got his strength measured by the fact he created a literal storm. If you are going to measure his output by the meteorological impact....we deserve a similar feat from Naruto to compare.

Oh and this bellyaching about being a double KO...no. They explained Might Guy hung on a little bit beyond All Might so the sacrifice move still counts as a win. Its their show, their rules, and its reasonable. Moreover, the death thing was the visual way they ended the fight...if Might Guy is as strong as claimed, he should probably have one much sooner really.

[Rater202]

"their show, their rules" only apply if the rules are consistent.

Which they aren't. Even the core premise of the show can be thrown out on the whims of the writers as shown in the second Goku vs Superman when they step away from analysis to say that Goku can never, ever, ever win about Superman for narrative reasons.

Or using only a character's own feats: Eddie Brock only gets his own feats as Venom, Cletus only his own as Carnage, Miguel O'Hara doesn't get Mjolnir even though we know full well what it does because he never used it in combat, but Hal Jorden gets the combined feats of literally every Green Lantern.

[Traab]

"their show, their rules" only apply if the rules are consistent.

Which they aren't. Even the core premise of the show can be thrown out on the whims of the writers as shown in the second Goku vs Superman when they step away from analysis to say that Goku can never, ever, ever win about Superman for narrative reasons.

Or using only a character's own feats: Eddie Brock only gets his own feats as Venom, Cletus only his own as Carnage, Miguel O'Hara doesn't get Mjolnir even though we know full well what it does because he never used it in combat, but Hal Jorden gets the combined feats of literally every Green Lantern.

Or cloud being restricted to his most basic gear due to it being "iconic" while link gets a wide spread of gear from multiple game iterations. Its just them trying to justify balancing a fight out or, at worst, making sure their choice wins.

[HolyDraconus]

Or cloud being restricted to his most basic gear due to it being "iconic" while link gets a wide spread of gear from multiple game iterations. Its just them trying to justify balancing a fight out or, at worst, making sure their choice wins.

I doubt its very much balancing. But that's personal opinion so its whatever. There have been several robberies, and the only thing that even shows that they noticed is the homage of changes during the deadpool V Bighead fight.

[Anteros]

Well, most people probably wouldn't even know they still exist if it wasn't for the times they've been blatantly wrong/biased and people talking about those. Not much incentive to improve or get it right.

[Traab]

Finally got to watch the fight itself.

Spoiler

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Yeah the ending was a big no brainer for me. However, I LOVED the fight from its start as an arm wrestling competition to a fight to the death, neither stopped having the best time of their lives in it. I still think its odd they jumped through so many hoops to make the naruto comparison. Again, his attack is so powerful IT WARPS SPACE! Even if you cant put an actual mathematical figure on the power involved, nobody can deny that warping space with your foot beats creating a tornado with your fist. Im not even sure how you would do the math on his earlier attack as the pillar of wind technique makes literally no sense at all physics wise.

[Rater202]

Finally got to watch the fight itself.

Spoiler

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Yeah the ending was a big no brainer for me. However, I LOVED the fight from its start as an arm wrestling competition to a fight to the death, neither stopped having the best time of their lives in it. I still think its odd they jumped through so many hoops to make the naruto comparison. Again, his attack is so powerful IT WARPS SPACE! Even if you cant put an actual mathematical figure on the power involved, nobody can deny that warping space with your foot beats creating a tornado with your fist. Im not even sure how you would do the math on his earlier attack as the pillar of wind technique makes literally no sense at all physics wise.

Spoiler

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One For All doesn't give super strength.

It generates and Stockpiles power. This applies in many, many ways, but for the purposes of this discussion what really matters is the massive reserve of raw energy that the user can tap for various purposes. It so versatile that Deku, whose Quirk is noted in-universe to be similar to All Might's by people not in the know, is able to pass off suddenly producing writhing murder-tentacles made of a malevolent looking black energy from his arms as an evolution of the source of his super strength without question

While it's certainly possible that All Might is just punching the air that hard, it's also possible that he's just releasing massive bursts of energy as kinetic force and the shockwave is what creates the heightened winds.

[Traab]

Spoiler

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One For All doesn't give super strength.

It generates and Stockpiles power. This applies in many, many ways, but for the purposes of this discussion what really matters is the massive reserve of raw energy that the user can tap for various purposes. It so versatile that Deku, whose Quirk is noted in-universe to be similar to All Might's by people not in the know, is able to pass off suddenly producing writhing murder-tentacles made of a malevolent looking black energy from his arms as an evolution of the source of his super strength without question

While it's certainly possible that All Might is just punching the air that hard, it's also possible that he's just releasing massive bursts of energy as kinetic force and the shockwave is what creates the heightened winds.

I was talking about gais attack on madera before Night Gai where he had madera pinned in mid air by a half dozen pillars of air... somehow. Like, I can buy creating the shockwave of air, I could even buy him somehow maintaining a steady blast from say, punching so rapidly its a continual current or something, but then he moves to another spot and creates another blast of air, then another, and another, until madera is being hammered by like 6 simultaneous pillars of air. The only explanation i could think of is, his speed is so great, all of this is happening in the same fraction of a second which would explain his ability to punch that hard in the first place.

[Rater202]

I was talking about gais attack on madera before Night Gai where he had madera pinned in mid air by a half dozen pillars of air... somehow. Like, I can buy creating the shockwave of air, I could even buy him somehow maintaining a steady blast from say, punching so rapidly its a continual current or something, but then he moves to another spot and creates another blast of air, then another, and another, until madera is being hammered by like 6 simultaneous pillars of air. The only explanation i could think of is, his speed is so great, all of this is happening in the same fraction of a second which would explain his ability to punch that hard in the first place.

Naruto is a setting where being good ad mediating and physical exercise lets you do magic if you hold your hands together right.

Gai's techniques are about applying that principle to enhancing his body and ability to fight.

While his backstory involves an inability to perform Ninjutsu, Gai is not disabled the way that Lee is and eventually learned: One of the first things he does in the series is use the summoning Jutsu with a turtle.

It's probable that his air-blast moves, while not strictly speaking a ninjutu, operate on the same principals as traditional techniques: He's good enough at martial arts and meditation that he can do magic.

[Lord Raziere]

It's probable that his air-blast moves, while not strictly speaking a ninjutu, operate on the same principals as traditional techniques: He's good enough at martial arts and meditation that he can do magic.

Thing is, Gai has only been shown doing them during his eight gates mode, at its highest levels.

the Hyuuga have an air blast move that DON'T involve nearly killing yourself or even dying that Hinata demonstrate against the ten tails.

so Gai's version might in fact be only possible because he has enough force to make it happen and so powerful that he had become a taijutsu god for one fleeting moment. he doesn't really demonstrate such capability outside of it, after all, and Naruto is a world where there is multiple ways to achieve the same thing: Gai just does it the brute force way, and the Hyuuga do it the Mr. Miyagi way with control and proper focus of the little energy they have.

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: Might vs Might

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Oh and this bellyaching about being a double KO...no. They explained Might Guy hung on a little bit beyond All Might so the sacrifice move still counts as a win. Its their show, their rules, and its reasonable. Moreover, the death thing was the visual way they ended the fight...if Might Guy is as strong as claimed, he should probably have one much sooner really.

It is still a double KO. If Might Guy can only beat All Might by doing a suicide technique, then that means that at the end of the day, both of them will end up dead. I mean 'Might Guy wins the fight, but dies from using the Gates afterwards' is the result. If you (and they) want to call that as Might Guy winning, go ahead. I call that a tie, and I don't need their permission to use my interpretation of their results.

And they are pretty clear, Might Guy actually only hits that point after opening the Gate of Death. Until then, All Might does have the advantage. Because in Naruto, suicide techniques are exponentially more powerful than their non-suicidal versions.

[Rater202]

Thing is, Gai has only been shown doing them during his eight gates mode, at its highest levels.

The Hyuga's air blast technique... Actually, I don't remember that, but considering that we only ever see them using Gentle Fist, which is based entirely on raw chakra and their magic eyes.

But if the "magic" in the series is based on physical might, meditation, and so on then Gai using the special technique that gives him more raw power, enhances his physical abilities, and so on being a prerequisite for his most blatantly magical martial arts makes sense.

[HolyDraconus]

Next time on death battle

Spoiler

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Ultimate Spiderman(Miles) vs Static(Shock).... my money is on static.

[Rater202]

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Since static is a flashier, less powerful Magneto, Miles is a much stronger Peter, and Peter has beaten Magneto? I'm giving it to Miles.

Like, Static's physically a normal. Miles can break adamantium with his bare hands. Static's only chance is to stay out of Miles' melee range because even a glancing blow thrown with intent to kill will pulp him.

Of course, since screwattack can't help but suck up to DC they're gonna give it to Static.

[Kitten Champion]

I only know Static Shock from the cartoon - and I barely remember that - so I have no idea to what extent his powers were inflated in the comics.

Spider-Man/Men/Women are/is one of the most well-equipped heroes for this though. Possessing reflexes going into precognition and the flexible chemistry of their webbing allows them attack with a well-insulated material. Miles in particularly is even better off in this regard with his additional powers of invisibility and those venom bolt thingies giving him a secondary ranged attack. An attack that has apparently worked even against Electro.

[Dragonus45]

Spoiler

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Since static is a flashier, less powerful Magneto, Miles is a much stronger Peter, and Peter has beaten Magneto? I'm giving it to Miles.

Like, Static's physically a normal. Miles can break adamantium with his bare hands. Static's only chance is to stay out of Miles' melee range because even a glancing blow thrown with intent to kill will pulp him.

Of course, since screwattack can't help but suck up to DC they're gonna give it to Static.

Spoiler

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Admittedly I have up on marvel years and years ago so I'm behind but wasn't Miles sort of a sidegrade to Ultimate Peter? Less physically powerful but with stealth and an equalizer shock?

It is still a double KO. If Might Guy can only beat All Might by doing a suicide technique, then that means that at the end of the day, both of them will end up dead. I mean 'Might Guy wins the fight, but dies from using the Gates afterwards' is the result. If you (and they) want to call that as Might Guy winning, go ahead. I call that a tie, and I don't need their permission to use my interpretation of their results.

And they are pretty clear, Might Guy actually only hits that point after opening the Gate of Death. Until then, All Might does have the advantage. Because in Naruto, suicide techniques are exponentially more powerful than their non-suicidal versions.

I agree, if your only option for victory is a 100% death suicide move then its a double KO!

[HolyDraconus]

Spoiler

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Since static is a flashier, less powerful Magneto, Miles is a much stronger Peter, and Peter has beaten Magneto? I'm giving it to Miles.

Like, Static's physically a normal. Miles can break adamantium with his bare hands. Static's only chance is to stay out of Miles' melee range because even a glancing blow thrown with intent to kill will pulp him.

Of course, since screwattack can't help but suck up to DC they're gonna give it to Static.

Spoiler: Not quite

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Static isn't though. The Big Bang literally made Static a Metahuman. He has canonly shown to dodge light. He also has fought metahumans with claims of power near Big Blue, and tanked those hits, both with AND without his shield. Static's travel speed isn't fast but it IS fast enough to hang with some speedsters in the DC, easily putting him at Hypersonic. If they take the show, he beat the Flash and Big Blue. And in the future he's shown to directly impact the Earth with his minor crap on a planetary scale. One thing that Static has shown both in the comics and the show is that he can manipulate electricity in such a fine way to create some straight up bs. Like using it to put people in a literal stasis. Coupled with the fact that he IS a genius, and does crap like make pet raptors cause he's bored, and I think he has a much higher chance than you give him credit for. Miles probably has him beat in physical strength, almost definitely really, but Static has alot of tools in his disposal. Plus, it does goes down the road on if they use some of Static's more bs abilities, like sensing electricity, which, surprise, people generate with their minds!?! His infravision, cause of course, but also his imma induce a chemical reaction in air so you can't breathe.
Miles can't sneak up on him, Static can see him. I'm just gonna go of general spidey feats and say that Miles can't react faster since Static has beaten many times several speedsters and a Pre Cog, but I will admit that I could be wrong. What else in Miles arsenal can he use in this fight? Gadgets? EMP. Spider Sting? Not only immune but actually can grow in strength from it. Hell, not saying Miles could but dismemberment!? Static had his arm chopped off and just shoved it back on and kept fighting.
Strength is all I will say Miles is clearly the upper hand haver in this. But I don't know if that's enough. With my limited knowledge of Miles I want to say its a stomp for Static but I will be honest and say I wont be upset if he lost, cause I can see an argument for it..
What I CAN argue is this matchup to begin with. WHY? Like... WHY? There's only one theme I'm seeing between the two, and its coming off as racist. Like, if they wanted to go with Not Peter Parker Spidermans they could of atleast went with DC's Sideways

[Lemmy]

That's a weird match... Their power sets are completely different, so what is the shared theme? That they are young black heroes? That's dumb. And boring.

Yet another episode to skip...

Now that I think about it, I only watch about 10% of the matches. If we didn't have this thread, I wouldn't even remember DB exists.

[Kitten Champion]

I believe Static Shock as a show was pretty heavily influenced by Spider-Man from its inception. Though whether that justifies a Death Battle match-up with Miles Morales I don't really know.

Particularly if HolyDraconus' assessment is correct and this is a "why bother?" kind of situation where the difference in power is so substantive that merely having some common thematic ground between the two participants is too weak a justification.

[Traab]

In the cartoon alone teenage newbie hero static has faced the founding members of the justice league. All at once. Yes they were mind controlled by braniac at the time, but even if you wanted to be hyper generous and put them at 1% of their full power due to mind control shenanigans, they are still ludicrously stronger than anything miles can dish out. He was still avoiding a flash running so fast he was running on water for just one speed feat. One of the more obnoxious traits of DB is they like to do transitive properties when it comes to "This combatant has beaten X who is capable of blah, therefore they are capable of bluh bluh bluh."

[Rynjin]

That's a weird match... Their power sets are completely different, so what is the shared theme? That they are young black heroes? That's dumb. And boring.

Yet another episode to skip...

Now that I think about it, I only watch about 10% of the matches. If we didn't have this thread, I wouldn't even remember DB exists.

Static and Spider-Man are, in terms of power set, very different characters.

Miles Morales and Vergil Hawkins though? They're two VERY similar people.

Young black kids with genius level IQs who grew up in bad neighborhoods and have fathers with high expectations and respectable careers? Yeah, pretty thematically similar.

[Traab]

In the cartoon alone teenage newbie hero static has faced the founding members of the justice league. All at once. Yes they were mind controlled by braniac at the time, but even if you wanted to be hyper generous and put them at 1% of their full power due to mind control shenanigans, they are still ludicrously stronger than anything miles can dish out. He was still avoiding a flash running so fast he was running on water for just one speed feat. One of the more obnoxious traits of DB is they like to do transitive properties when it comes to "This combatant has beaten X who is capable of blah, therefore they are capable of bluh bluh bluh."

[Traab]

In the cartoon alone teenage newbie hero static has faced the founding members of the justice league. All at once. Yes they were mind controlled by braniac at the time, but even if you wanted to be hyper generous and put them at 1% of their full power due to mind control shenanigans, they are still ludicrously stronger than anything miles can dish out. He was still avoiding a flash running so fast he was running on water for just one speed feat. One of the more obnoxious traits of DB is they like to do transitive properties when it comes to "This combatant has beaten X who is capable of blah, therefore they are capable of bluh bluh bluh."

[Rater202]

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Admittedly I have up on marvel years and years ago so I'm behind but wasn't Miles sort of a sidegrade to Ultimate Peter? Less physically powerful but with stealth and an equalizer shock?

!

Not quite.

Ultimate Peter was initially waker that main Peter, but Miles is stronger than Ultimate PEter.

When Miles was 13, he was physically equal to Peter 616 in every attributes despite Peter 616 being a full-grown man in the prime of his life. That's in addition to his ridiculously overpowered venom-blasts.

At 18 he can shatter the True Adamantium Shield that Hydra Cap was using(Sam Wilson was using the original Shield at the time) and generate an area of effect blast of energy comparable in power to Mjolnir(Explicitly. An alien dragon that had previously been harmed only by Thor using Mjolnir was messed up much worse by the super venom blast.)

He's also constantly getting stronger due to the Oz formula staying in your system and bonding to your DNA, advancing the mutation slowly over time as well as granting a powerful healing factor: It's not as fast as Wolverine's, but the Oz formula doesn't stop healing you till you're perfect. Becuase of this, everyone with Oz in their system is immortal becuase you keep healing even when clinically dead.

The Ultimate Universe Norman Osborn has come back from the dead multiple times due to the Oz formula in his body, including once from having his powers suppressed, then he was executed killed, then his body ventilated with automatic gunfire, and then cremated. The Spider-Men don't have as much formula as Ozborn did, but the venom of the Oz Spiders is a perfected version of the formula and Ultimate Peter managed to come back to life after bleeding out, being autopsied, embalmed and buried and Mile's spider was more advanced than Peter's

That's a weird match... Their power sets are completely different, so what is the shared theme? That they are young black heroes? That's dumb. And boring.

Yet another episode to skip...

Now that I think about it, I only watch about 10% of the matches. If we didn't have this thread, I wouldn't even remember DB exists.

Miles has powerful bio-electrical abilities that allow him to zap the crap out of people with a touch from anywhere from "taze" to "kill" and are extra effective on things with genetic mutations, fry everything in the general area around him with a blast comparable to Mjolnir, ad even create "webbing" from his bio-electricity.

So ti's young black heroes with electricity powers. Which I think is a poor excuse for a matchup since if Miles can land a punch on Statis, Miles wins.

[Dragonus45]

Not quite.

At 18 he can shatter the True Adamantium Shield that Hydra Cap was using(Sam Wilson was using the original Shield at the time) and generate an area of effect blast of energy comparable in power to Mjolnir(Explicitly. An alien dragon that had previously been harmed only by Thor using Mjolnir was messed up much worse by the super venom blast.)

Ah, Hydra Cap was the exact moment I dropped the entire Marvel Continuity and never looked back, so I missed him doing that. I was aware of the stuff involving the OZ formula being insane though. Because ho boy was it odd.

[Man on Fire]

That's a weird match... Their power sets are completely different, so what is the shared theme? That they are young black heroes? That's dumb. And boring.

They are both the most succesfull character from their respective universe, their worlds were later incorporated into main verse of their respective publisher. Moreover, Static was invented as Milestone's Spider-Man, Miles is Ultimate Spider-Man

[Prime32]

Static and Spider-Man are, in terms of power set, very different characters.

Going by powersets, I think the best match for Static would be Misaka Mikoto (in terms of both scale and creativity). But it can be tough to make a fight between two electricity users interesting, since often at least one of them has "absorbs electric attacks" as a power.

[HolyDraconus]

Results and things.

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The winner is static. Duh. Miles just doesnt have enough. Fight looked good but I they didn't present much more than rater did and going from that I knew it was still on static. Next time is Sindel v Black Canary, another apparent win for DC if you wanna look at it like that.

[Dragonus45]

Results and things.

Spoiler

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The winner is static. Duh. Miles just doesnt have enough. Fight looked good but I they didn't present much more than rater did and going from that I knew it was still on static. Next time is Sindel v Black Canary, another apparent win for DC if you wanna look at it like that.

Spoiler: NEXT TIME!

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I would normally agree but Black Canary is C list as far ad DC power levels go and they have a bad habit of including goofy minigames as cannon for MK characters which means Sindel will be casually decapitating people with a backhand. Even without Test Your Might Sindel probably has enough going on to overwhelm Canary in straight fight. Unless it turns out her Canary Cry has some random feat of vaporizing a kryptonian once in 1995 or something I don't know about.

[HolyDraconus]

Spoiler: NEXT TIME!

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I would normally agree but Black Canary is C list as far ad DC power levels go and they have a bad habit of including goofy minigames as cannon for MK characters which means Sindel will be casually decapitating people with a backhand. Even without Test Your Might Sindel probably has enough going on to overwhelm Canary in straight fight. Unless it turns out her Canary Cry has some random feat of vaporizing a kryptonian once in 1995 or something I don't know about.

Spoiler: But then

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Well, she did fight Wonder Woman to a standstill, who was stated to be able to beat Big Blue in a fight. She's bent metal with simple strikes, is considered on par if not better than Batman in terms of pure martial arts, has kicked someone's head off, and beat down Lady Shiva's Mum. As for her scream? Well, she DID blow off Amazo's head with it, and can be pretty precise with it. The screams between the two I'm just gonna say cancel out, but combat abilities, I don't see Sindel winning it. Unless they count that one time she solo'd the entire MK roster and won.