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Thread: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
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2020-07-19, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-07-19, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
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2020-07-19, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
How much longer will voting be open? I'm finding myself conflicted about what to vote for and have been stalling as a result.
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2020-07-19, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
By the rules, until it's been a day without new votes. In practice, it tends to be a few days without votes, because I'm not standing here with a stopwatch. I also tend to not count weekend days as real days for this purpose, due to the considerable drop-off in posting on weekends. Given we're in page 7, too, I'll probably won't even check if it's been 24 hours until we hit page 11, because that's when I'd incorporate the changes to the OP anyway - no point in closing a vote and then sitting on it.
So, here is my promise: I won't close the vote before page 10. That works?
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-19 at 10:27 PM.
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2020-07-19, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I'd like to vote in the order F -> B -> C -> I -> D -> A -> Z
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2020-07-19, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Quick note on Carb-Amorph size. I just found* a training fight where Schlock's weight was listed as 550 lbs. This puts him in the Large category by weight (and I'm told that is a more relevant meaure than length or width, one we don't use because all we have is MitD's height). Still, that is a solid, canonical meaure, so I'd list it as "Schlock Mercenary's Carbosilicate Amorph: Height: variable; Weight 550 lbs (Large), Str: enough to use heavy defensive barriers as flyswatters"
The last bit, by the way, I thought I had already linked in the OP, but it doesn't seem to be there. Does anyone remember the moment and can provide me with a link?
Grey Wolf
*I technically knew it existed all along, but just remembered it introduced the "only cheaters prosper" maxim, and that's what allowed me to track it downLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-19 at 11:25 PM.
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2020-07-19, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
No, it's the opposite of that; the length (for a long creature) or height (for a tall creature) is the key measure. The table explicitly says the weight ranges are for a creature with same density as a regular animal...and it sounds like a carbosilicate amorph's density is variable.
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2020-07-20, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I'll be updating my vote to
A > Any(G,H) > C > !Z
(Some of those options weren't there originally; also, having to specify that I prefer A over C, and C over B, could very well have not been needed at all, but now it looks like it might be close enough for it to matter. I chose the path I estimated was likely to generate on average the least work for GW, but in the end, it caused me to have to update my vote twice. So, sorry for that.)Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2020-07-20, 06:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
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2020-07-20, 07:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
No, I think its density is the one thing that is mostly stable. Its form is really malleable, and depends heavily on how much he's eating lately, but the more he eats, the bigger he gets. In any case, even if I was hoping otherwise, weight is what we have, so it'll have to do, if it comes to having to explicitly say (although my preference continues to be to not try to cram the carb-amorph in to D&D stats).
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2020-07-20, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
p. 49, panel 3: "Oh man, I love the jungle! The sun, the blue skies, the fresh air—"
Also, to go on another tangent, I do think there is some evidence for the MITD having a telekinetic ability that randomly adds force to its strikes. Both the tower scene and the Earthquake scene seem to indicate the MITD inflicting a tremendous amount of force by accident (it was playing "who can hit lightest" with Miko, and the way its dialog is phrased in the Earthquake scene certainly sounds like it only casually stomped the ground and was surprised at getting an Earthquake). But it doesn't exert this level of force all the time, it's not smashing holes in the ground just by walking around or smashing through the Hollow doors when it paints them. So either something is causing its strength to fluctuate at random, such that it cannot always gauge how much force it is using, or else it has some kind of effect that randomly adds huge amounts of kinetic energy to minor touches.
Which might be a point in favor of the Protean, come to think of it. If its physical form is constantly roiling and bubbling, then it might logically have moments where it suddenly finds itself putting far more muscle behind a strike than it meant to.Last edited by ReaderAt2046; 2020-07-20 at 07:37 AM.
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2020-07-20, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
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2020-07-20, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Actually, that was a typo. I'm basically trying to list every option that isn't remove/replace the FBS list in an order that seems to keep the size requirement. Maybe this is better.
I'm just so damn tired of the NagaSnake {scrubbed}. As I understand it it's the same size as the Hel's deathsnake (or whatever it was) and that's just ludicrous.
I vote Z->F->G->H->I->!(D,E,C,B,A).
Maybe the next vote could be to rename section 3b from "Frequently Proposed Unlikely Ideas" to "Frequently Proposed Less Likely Ideas". That might sound less judgemental. But lets get through this first, since it could become moot.Last edited by Peelee; 2020-07-20 at 10:56 AM.
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2020-07-20, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Longer. The nightshade/nightcrawler is "a massive behemoth similar to a purple worm, though utterly black in color." A Purple worm is "5 feet in diameter and 80 feet long", the Ha-Naga is over 100, 20% larger.
So noted.
How about I drop the judgemental bit entirely? "Frequently proposed Ideas"? Don't think we need a vote for that.
Grey WolfLast edited by Peelee; 2020-07-20 at 10:56 AM.
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2020-07-20, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
It's worse than that. The Likeable Death Worm was (likely) a Nightcrawler, a Gargantuan monster just like the Purple Worm the Order rode to Girard's gate. The Ancient Black Dragon was Huge, one size category smaller so perhaps the Likeable Death Worm was on the smaller end of Gargantuan while the Purple Worm was a bigger Gargantuan.
Anyway, the Ha-Naga is Colossal, one size category larger than Colossal, so a fully grown specimen should be bigger than a Purple Worm.
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2020-07-20, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Probably wont make much of a difference, but in light of new options available, I'm changing to H > C > Z.
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2020-07-20, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
The length measurement uses it's longest dimension, Schlock can stretch even his normal size to extreme lengths when he wants to and we've seen him flatten out to be a parachute sized thing for a large man, he can definitely be huge or more based on length if he wants to. Remember that he occasionally infiltrates through the plumbing by assuming a long, thin form.
When moving he frequently stretches out quite a bit.
His density is presumably close to 1, he can fit in a 5'x5' space, but that's a rest form with no limbs and his dimensions in that form are no more representative of his size than a snake coiling, when active, he does stuff like hold multiple large men in the air at a well separated distances.
If I had to class Schlock's size for D&D I'd say large, with a comment that he can eat and grow to colossal given enough food.
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2020-07-20, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Good idea. It would allow moving creatures there which are frequently proposed and not as unlikely as Snarl jr. The Zodar maybe? Or the Ha-Naga? I don't know if it is frequently proposed, but it's frequently discussed and moving it may just make 3power a bit more happy. (Of course, if option A wins, it may end up in the FBS section anyway.)
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2020-07-20, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
It's occurred to me that I don't actually care about size being removed, but at the same time it feels like most of the people who are for that just want to stop having the same fight again and again. The Xenocrysth is one of the few cases where it feels like it actually just might fit, though it's still a definite con.
I'd like to change my vote to I->A->Z
As an aside, insofar as I am aware there are 2-3 people who actively support the Ha-Naga despite the several glaring flaws it has. It's only had so much attention because due to the lack of MitD in the last hundred comics, fighting over it has been the one thing consuming this thread; otherwise I would imagine it would be just another candidate in the list like the other many, many monsters in the big list.Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2020-07-20 at 10:26 AM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
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2020-07-20, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
The idea here is to list creatures that multiple different individuals have independently brought up. The Ha-Naga doesn't qualify because it is just the one person. The Zodar I could see an argument for, but it's not really been suggested all that often in the thread itself. Not compared to Tarrasque, Grue, "a god", and variations on "Mary Sue", which multiple people suggested at different times (e.g. a few pages back Gareth235's suggestion of a deity). If anything, we probably could drop Pun-Pun out of the list - it's been ages since that one was brought up.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-20 at 11:01 AM.
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2020-07-20, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I've interpreted the purple worm the Order encountered to be Colossal since it increases to that size after sufficient hit die advancement. Point still stands though, the Ha-Naga is gigasized.
Last edited by catagent101; 2020-07-20 at 11:14 AM. Reason: brackets
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2020-07-20, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Perfect! Thank you.
That seems like a good change to me. My understanding of the point of that section is to give people a relatively short list of things to skim and and realize have already been discussed when they want to make suggestions (with already-identified drawbacks noted), so I don't think the word "unlikely" is doing much to help with that purpose.
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2020-07-20, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
What you wrote is:
Which implies you believe you can handwave the STR requirement away with Rule of Funny.
It's also difficult for a creature of 53 STR that doesn't know how strong it is to hit lightly.
Voting
F, Z, I
I'm strongly against taking the size requirement out entirely, as I haven't been convinced there's a good reason for that other than "people want to fit their pet monsters into the FBS."Last edited by Ruck; 2020-07-20 at 11:42 AM.
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2020-07-20, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
My understanding of that was section was that these ideas are constantly suggested despite having just, so many flaws, everywhere, so its saying:
"Hey, I know you think its the Tarrasque/Snarl/Grue/A God/Rich/Pun-Pun, but its been brought up a lot, and it has a billion giant problems, here are all of the problems so we don't have to bring them up again unless someone has a way to overcome these major problems."
And just calling them frequently proposed, imo, lessens the understanding, you see frequently proposed and read "popular" you see frequently proposed unlikely and read "these aren't very good", which imo, helps the section.Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2020-07-20, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
That's fair, but on the other hand, the sentence that opens up the category does address that: "These ideas have been frequently brought up, but they fail in a major way that presents a major problem."
(Note to self: bit redundant, that, Grey. Maybe consider rewriting the second "major"?)
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-20 at 11:42 AM.
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2020-07-20, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
MitD has canonically met that jumping teleporting psionic beetle, right? I think it was in one of the prequel books?
Shouldn't that be mentioned as another example of a creature that Protean!MitD could have met to be able to pull off a teleport, since he has in the books met and interacted with it, meaning he would be able to use its abilities.Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2020-07-20 at 11:44 AM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
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2020-07-20, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-20, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-20 at 11:51 AM.
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2020-07-20, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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