[3.5]Full BAB base classes

[Thurbane]

OK, just curious...outside of ToB (which isn't used in our games), what would people say are the best full BAB base classes are in the areas of:

• Damage output
• Versatility (in combat)
• Versatility (out of combat)

[CockroachTeaParty]

Barbarian is probably the best as far as pure damage output is concerned. Of course, a charge-monkey isn't much for versatility out of combat...

Edit: I might give best out-of-combat versatility to the Duskblade. With Dimension Hop and a few other minor utility spells, they've got some options, and they're no slouch in the damage department, either.

[sofawall]

Cleric.

[avr]

Rangers have plenty of versatility (out of combat by default, and some rangers can have options in combat), but they suffer badly from the D&D rules 'specialists rule!' attitude.

[Thurbane]

Cleric.

Yeah...no.

I see what you did there, but Cleric, even with DMM Persist, isn't a full BAB class. At least not when they are in an Antimagic Field...

[PId6]

Duskblade is an amazing damage dealer, and has some spellcasting for versatility (Scorching Ray for ranged, Resist Energy for protection, etc). It does have very limited spells known, however, so that's an issue.

Barbarian is fantastic at dealing damage, and is more versatile than fighter due to skill points, but ultimately doesn't do much if he can't do what he's built to do (usually charging).

Fighter is a one-trick pony, but you get a few choices as to the trick. Tripping, archery, and charging are the main choices, but you can't do much beyond your one trick. Dungeoncrasher/Zhentarim variants provide a bit more versatility though.

Ranger (archery ranger is the only one worth mentioning) can be decently versatile, with his copious skill points and spellcasting (including wizard spells if you take Sword of the Arcane Order). His damage isn't bad either, though likely lower than the previous three.

Paladin has a few options, and does have spellcasting plus a mount, but probably is weaker than fighter/barbarian/duskblade in terms of pure damage and ranger in terms of versatility.

Hexblade I'm not very familiar with, but it does seem to have a few options with spellcasting and debuffs, though ultimately isn't all that great in either the versatility or damage department.

Swashbuckler is terrible without Daring Outlaw; it's best off just charging like a fighter/barbarian but being worse than both. It has a few social skills, so there's some versatility out of combat, but isn't that great no matter what.

CW Samurai has the option of optimizing Intimidate through the roof, but otherwise isn't worth mentioning.

Knight has some tanking tricks if you do it right, but deals less damage than fighters/barbarians. Versatility is not too high either.

Monk has great versatility due to Use Magic Device, but for some reason doesn't seem to have full bab.

Yeah...no.

I see what you did there, but Cleric, even with DMM Persist, isn't a full BAB class. At least not when they are in an Antimagic Field...

Initiate of Mystra says hi.

[Zaq]

The only non-ToB one that has anything going for it, really, is the Duskblade, since WotC's "magic > you" rule partially overrode their deep and abiding hatred of full BAB classes.

Other full BAB classes have a few tricks here and there (Battle Blessing, Test of Mettle, Dungeoncrasher, and your vanilla Shock Leaper all come to mind), but none of them really make for, you know, properly viable and non-boring characters, as far as I'm concerned.

[dextercorvia]

Divine Crusader. Not a base class, but if you want full BAB, there is nothing to scoff at about getting 9th level spells. Fairly easy entry requirements, too.

[PId6]

Divine Crusader. Not a base class, but if you want full BAB, there is nothing to scoff at about getting 9th level spells. Fairly easy entry requirements, too.

It's best when used with Sovereign Speaker, so that you get to cast from 10 different domains rather than just one.

[HunterOfJello]

Wildshape Ranger and Duskblade are your best non-ToB full BAB classes (both are tier 3)


After that you have Barbarian, Ranger, Hexblade, and Fighter (w/ Dungeoncrasher) which are all tier 4

[Ponce]

Definitely would say paladin. Especially if you toss in a healthy dose of alternate class features and maybe a nice exotic mount. Complete Champion helps too. Honestly I would say it has to fall to one of the core classes just because they're the ones who get pampered in every book.

If not Paladin, then Ranger. Well rounded, but... blahhh...

[PId6]

After that you have Barbarian, Ranger, Hexblade, Marshall and Fighter (w/ Dungeoncrasher) which are all tier 3

You mean Tier 4.

And Marshal is not full bab (though it should be).

[Thurbane]

Initiate of Mystra says hi.

Shakes fist at the heavens William Shatner style - Khaaaaan! Reaaaalms!

[Eldariel]

Divine Crusader. Not a base class, but if you want full BAB, there is nothing to scoff at about getting 9th level spells. Fairly easy entry requirements, too.

It's not full BAB And the Domains...well, it's a bit unclear if you can actually expand the casting list through them or if you're stuck with just the one domain.


Anyways, I think this is pretty clear-cut:
Damage Output: Duskblade
In-Combat Versatility: Wildshape Ranger
Out-of-Combat Versatility: Wildshape Ranger

Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker probably wins Damage Output if we account for PrCs though and In-Combat Versatility is a close call between Wildshape Ranger and Duskblade, but if Wildshape Ranger is also a Mystic chassis with SoTAO, it'll take it down hands-down with Duskblade's spells and more.


It's also worth noting that Zhentarim Fighter can make for a decent damage dealer (charger), controller (tripper or dungeoncrasher) and intimidator in one packet making it a rather worthwhile character in the end.

[HunterOfJello]

You mean Tier 4.

And Marshal is not full bab (though it should be).

whoops, fixed.

I thought Marshal was full bab, that's weird. I can't think of a reason it shouldn't be.

[Thurbane]

Divine Crusader. Not a base class, but if you want full BAB, there is nothing to scoff at about getting 9th level spells. Fairly easy entry requirements, too.

Unfortunately, despite all common sense, Divine Crusader isn't a full BAB class...it uses medium BAB (Cleric/Rogue). I thought the same thing myself for a long time, until someone corrected me.

[/ninja'd]

[dextercorvia]

My mistake. I have looked at that class at least twice in the last month in the actual book, and thought it was full. I had been drooling up a build less than a week ago. I guess it is the +7BAB prereq. Sorry.

[Zergrusheddie]

Binder has a loop hole in that. They can add Insight Bonuses to HP, a save, DR, AC, +damage, or +hit. With 3/4 BAB and adding the insight bonus to attack, they basically become Full BAB characters. Even without the awesome Zceryll Vestige, Binders are awesome.

[sofawall]

Binder has a loop hole in that. They can add Insight Bonuses to HP, a save, DR, AC, +damage, or +hit. With 3/4 BAB and adding the insight bonus to attack, they basically become Full BAB characters. Even without the awesome Zceryll Vestige, Binders are awesome.

Well, number of attacks is relevant as well. Also, prereqs.

Your to-hit will be high. You BAB? Less so.

[Mando Knight]

Initiate of Mystra says hi.

...Maybe this is the reason why Cyric assassinates Mystra to kick off the 4e version of the Realms...

[gorfnab]

Wildshape Mystic Ranger is great for versatility especially when combined with Wild Cohort and Sword of the Arcane Order.

[Wings of Peace]

A Wizard with Arcane Disciple (War) for access to Divine Power

[Thespianus]

A Wizard with Arcane Disciple (War) for access to Divine Power

If a Wizard runs around with the required 14 in Wisdom to cast Divine Power, I wonder what stat array he used. ;)

[Delusion]

If a Wizard runs around with the required 14 in Wisdom to cast Divine Power, I wonder what stat array he used. ;)

+wisdom items would work, right?

[Ossian]

+1 on duskblade, good without multiclassing well into the level progression.
If I were a regular player, that would be my class of choice.

[QuantumSteve]

It's not full BAB And the Domains...well, it's a bit unclear if you can actually expand the casting list through them or if you're stuck with just the one domain.

Actually, not so unclear. In the Extra Domains section, CD specifically says:

"If she memorizes spells like a druid, paladin, or ranger, then she can simply choose to memorize one of that domain’s spells instead of one of her usual spells, but never more than one domain spell of each level"

The Divine Crusader is a divine prepared spellcaster who can cast from her entire spell list just like a druid, paladin, or ranger, so this applies to her.
You only get one "Domain Spell" per level, so the rest of your spells must come off your 9 spell long spell list, but it will still greatly increase your spell options.

Note: This only applies to "Extra" domains, such as the ones granted by prestige classes that advance your Divine Crusader Spellcasting. Your Cleric Domains don't count.

[Murdim]

...Maybe this is the reason why Cyric assassinates Mystra to kick off the 4e version of the Realms...

Mystra is the reason why Cyric assassinates Mystra to kick off the 4e version of the Realms. Everything broken and/or sue-ish in the Forgotten Realms was directly linked to her. Local God Mode Stu Elminster wouldn't be half as much loathed if he wasn't part of a setting-wide pattern of Wesley-ism.

[Ferrin]

Binder with KotSS PrC effectively gets full bab.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I like Barbarian preferably with Frezied Berzerker.

He totally wins damage output with ubercharger.

Once you have your core feats for ubercharger you can start branching out. Intimidating rage, a prereq for FB, you have a free action intimidate check once per round while raging with a +10 bonus. No reason you can't follow up with imperious command and that skill trick never outnumbered I think. Now, since you probably have decent reach already, you can branch out into triping/AoO's or Mageslayer/Lockdown you won't be as good as a dedicated build but it'll be something.

Out of Combat you have intimidate and probably survival maxxed out and good perception skills. Also you have the trapkiller ACF that's quite a bit of out of combat utility for someone filling the BSF role.

[true_shinken]

I'm in love with Mystic Rangers.

No, I really am.