The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA

[Aniikinis]

-0. This thing is just a steaming pile of unoptimised corpses.

[maruahm]

Easy -0. Also, this thing's Strength is less than a large air elemental's (14). That's kind of incredible, in the sense that it's not credible that a large, physically tangible melee-attacker would have a Strength of only 13. Not even in the 2e or 5e eras of bounded values.

You know what large creature I'd give Strength 13? A pillow golem. A feather elemental.

[danielxcutter]

No. Just... no. LA -0.

What CR were these again? Although my character would probably be crapping their pants more about the look - I mean yeah, it IS pretty scary - regardless of that.

[Inevitability]

No. Just... no. LA -0.

What CR were these again? Although my character would probably be crapping their pants more about the look - I mean yeah, it IS pretty scary - regardless of that.

Respectively CR 10 and 13.

[OgresAreCute]

No. Just... no. LA -0.

What CR were these again? Although my character would probably be crapping their pants more about the look - I mean yeah, it IS pretty scary - regardless of that.

It'd look pretty scary if it was Huge like a Hydra is, at Medium I think this thing is going to look more like carnivorous spaghetti.

-0, by the by.

[danielxcutter]

Respectively CR 10 and 13.

Hrm. You know, that's actually pretty intimidating. Maybe it's not flat-out a blender, but that's a lot of attacks. A particularly sadistic DM could give one (Improved) Rapidstrike and then get all five MMs thrown at their head by the PCs.

[Lapak]

I admit that I don’t want to run into one of these in a dark alley, but I also don’t want to be in a party where one is my dark ally.

-0.

Hah!

And agreed. -0.

[lord_khaine]

I admit that I don’t want to run into one of these in a dark alley, but I also don’t want to be in a party where one is my dark ally.

-0.

Badum!

[ViperMagnum357]

LA -0 for both versions of the Shrieking Terror. For investing that much Aberration RHD, you ought to be able to punt a True Dragon across a gorge; instead, you get net abilities appropriate to something with 2 and 5 RHD with no LA, respectively. No thank you, and numerous unkind and anatomically improbable expletives to follow if provoked into deeper analysis.

[javcs]

I admit that I don’t want to run into one of these in a dark alley, but I also don’t want to be in a party where one is my dark ally.

-0.

Nice.


Concur, LA -0, and LA -Hells No.


Kiss is really more "useful" as a monster ability than a PC ability. Specifically, it's for when the PCs have effed up, and the DM is whacking them for it. Or the DM's being an asshat.

Alternatively, the Kiss is for screwing with the PCs while they're on an Escort-type mission.

[Inevitability]

I admit that I don’t want to run into one of these in a dark alley, but I also don’t want to be in a party where one is my dark ally.

Would you perchance be interested in getting quoted in the archive?

[Thurbane]

No disagreements with LA -0.

So when you "magically crossbreed" an Outsider and a Magical Beast, you get an...Aberration? Is it just me, or does that feel a little like crossbreeding an owl and a bear, and getting a unicorn? OK, I can kinda see the logic. Kinda.

As a DM, at CR 10 this thing feels like it could either be a TPK for an unprepared/unoptimised party; or a cake walk for an optimised/prepared party. Am I wrong?

[Unavenger]

To be honest, Outs+MaBe=Abbe isn't that odd, given that abberations are meant to be the "this is weird and doesn't fit better anywhere else" box.

Obviously -0, mind.

[Remuko]

Agree with others on the rating.

I also welcome back the Dire Stirge avatar for our dear creator!

[GreatWyrmGold]

For some reason, combining an outsider and a magical beast gives an aberration, which proves that two great things do not always go well together. Fifteen aberration RHD are a lot to be stuck with, after all.

I remember a third-party 3e book about creating your own magical crossbreeds, which included a handy table of what creature type would result from mashing two other types together. Most of them were aberrations, because apparently mashing two things together tends to be "unnatural" or something.
Another fun note: While mashing together two creatures of the same type was usually easier than mashing together creatures of wildly different types, aberrations were harder to mash with each other. Multi-step fusions were...difficult, to say the least.

It'd look pretty scary if it was Huge like a Hydra is, at Medium I think this thing is going to look more like carnivorous spaghetti.

A noisy, human-sized tangle of carnivorous spaghetti. That still sounds pretty frightening.

Kiss is really more "useful" as a monster ability than a PC ability. Specifically, it's for when the PCs have effed up, and the DM is whacking them for it. Or the DM's being an asshat.

What were the designers thinking when they designed the vargouille, anyways?
...Wait, that was probably the Tomb of Horrors era. Never mind.

[Thurbane]

What were the designers thinking when they designed the vargouille, anyways?
...Wait, that was probably the Tomb of Horrors era. Never mind.

1E MM2, if memory serves. So about 1983. Definitely in the heyday of some of the weirdest and most useless creatures to pop up in D&D.

I must admit, I have a bit of a soft spot for them as encounters. Can't really explain why.

[javcs]

I remember a third-party 3e book about creating your own magical crossbreeds, which included a handy table of what creature type would result from mashing two other types together. Most of them were aberrations, because apparently mashing two things together tends to be "unnatural" or something.
Another fun note: While mashing together two creatures of the same type was usually easier than mashing together creatures of wildly different types, aberrations were harder to mash with each other. Multi-step fusions were...difficult, to say the least.

Sounds like you might be thinking of Encyclopedia Arcane: Crossbreeding. That included rules for magically combining creatures in a lab/ritual.

Unless you're talking more literal crossbreeding, in which case it would have been Encyclopedia Arcane: Nymphology or Book of Erotic Deeds.

I think Savage Species had a table or chart or something about template and type stacking, and something about some types having priority and not being able to be changed to certain other types.

A noisy, human-sized tangle of carnivorous spaghetti. That still sounds pretty frightening.

That might actually be more terrifying than the WotC description.

What were the designers thinking when they designed the vargouille, anyways?
...Wait, that was probably the Tomb of Horrors era. Never mind.

If it's something that exists in prior literature/ mythology, it's probably something ridiculously niche and obscure.
Could have been early Ravenloft, too.

[Zaq]

Would you perchance be interested in getting quoted in the archive?

I’d be flattered.

[Thurbane]

Sounds like you might be thinking of Encyclopedia Arcane: Crossbreeding. That included rules for magically combining creatures in a lab/ritual.

Unless you're talking more literal crossbreeding, in which case it would have been Encyclopedia Arcane: Nymphology or Book of Erotic Deeds.

Bastards and Bloodlines and Advanced Bestiary also have some info about this kind of thing...

[danielxcutter]

Bastards and Bloodlines and Advanced Bestiary also have some info about this kind of thing...

I think there's something about that in Pathfinder too...

[unseenmage]

I remember a third-party 3e book about creating your own magical crossbreeds, which included a handy table of what creature type would result from mashing two other types together. Most of them were aberrations, because apparently mashing two things together tends to be "unnatural" or something.
Another fun note: While mashing together two creatures of the same type was usually easier than mashing together creatures of wildly different types, aberrations were harder to mash with each other. Multi-step fusions were...difficult, to say the least.

...

Doubtful it's what you're remembering but the Amalgam template from Advanced Bestiary has an entertaining type chart in regards to mooshing two creatures together as well.

[Falontani]

I remember a third-party 3e book about creating your own magical crossbreeds, which included a handy table of what creature type would result from mashing two other types together. Most of them were aberrations, because apparently mashing two things together tends to be "unnatural" or something.
Another fun note: While mashing together two creatures of the same type was usually easier than mashing together creatures of wildly different types, aberrations were harder to mash with each other. Multi-step fusions were...difficult, to say the least.

Crossbreeding Flesh and Blood. Phenomenal supplement for in game magical crossbreeds.

[Thurbane]

Well, I've got a new reading list of 3rd party books to check out! Thanks everyone.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Sounds like you might be thinking of Encyclopedia Arcane: Crossbreeding. That included rules for magically combining creatures in a lab/ritual.

Crossbreeding Flesh and Blood. Phenomenal supplement for in game magical crossbreeds.

Huh, other people have heard of it. Cool.

[ViperMagnum357]

Recalls familiar titles, checks 3rd Party folder in D&D documents, sees RoR: Bastards & Bloodlines, Advanced Bestiary and EA: Crossbreeds, feels smug and well read

Feels less smug and starts pondering purpose of life when he remembers he still has copies of both BoEF and EA: Nymphology Blue Magic

[Efrate]

Crossbreeding flesh and blood was a fun read. What developer was that by? Might go check out their catalogue.

[unseenmage]

Recalls familiar titles, checks 3rd Party folder in D&D documents, sees RoR: Bastards & Bloodlines, Advanced Bestiary and EA: Crossbreeds, feels smug and well read

Feels less smug and starts pondering purpose of life when he remembers he still has copies of both BoEF and EA: Nymphology Blue Magic

Only one of these I dont have / havnt read is the Crossbreeding one.

[javcs]

Recalls familiar titles, checks 3rd Party folder in D&D documents, sees RoR: Bastards & Bloodlines, Advanced Bestiary and EA: Crossbreeds, feels smug and well read

Feels less smug and starts pondering purpose of life when he remembers he still has copies of both BoEF and EA: Nymphology Blue Magic

You haven't gotten rid of them because as digital copies, there's no point in getting rid of them.
And by keeping them, you can have them available in the event of a game that allows wide third party sourcebook access, as there a few things that can get broken, and so that you can be forewarned in the event another player or the DM draws on them.

You got them in the first place for the sake of a more complete collection, and maybe to look at the once just to see what people were talking about.

Crossbreeding flesh and blood was a fun read. What developer was that by? Might go check out their catalogue.

Mongoose.

[No brains]

IIRC, Vargouilles are slightly toned down pennangalans. Though one of those springing from a hydra would be an interesting circumstance as all they flying serpent heads tug in opposite directions of the trail of entrails.

[Inevitability]

Skindancer

The skindancer: a horrible monster whose ever-shifting defenses provide protection against everything, with the notable exception of an airborne Wand Of Magic Missile-owner.

The bad first: fifteen monstrous humanoid RHD, and only 22 strength and Large size to show for it. Great constitution, terrible intelligence and charisma, reasonable dexterity and wisdom. +7 natural armor, as well as a natural ability that grants another +6 deflection. Finally, two 2d6 slam attacks which nobody cares about because these things can use weapons.

The skindancer's special abilities are unique, if nothing else (notable exception: Trip, which requires using its slams and is very bland and weak). Adaptive Energy Resistance gives it resistance 20 to whatever was the last energy attack to damage it (per the rules compendium, this covers acid/cold/electric/fire/sonic), and Damage Reduction gives it DR 15 to the damage types of the last weapon attack that hit it (so DR 15/slashing if the attack was with a morningstar, DR 15/bludgeoning and piercing if it was with a greatsword, and so on).

I'm not sure how strong those abilities are, but they do seem to have some utility. That said, the few CR 15 foes I sampled did usually have ways to get past those resistances, and there's still the issue of a defensive ability just not being very strong without offensive pressure or a means of drawing attacks.

I think that in the end I'll go with -0 for the skindancer, but it's a neat concept that could definitely be viable if it had a few less HD. Do discuss.