Encumbrance Rules and 'Cheating'

[Cass]

I think it's fair for you to use encumbrance but I think it's unfair to enforce it mid-dungeon because you didn't allow them to take it in consideration before heading out. It slipped through, move on for now and start tracking it from next time they resupply.
Personally, I would consider not counting the weight of a worn armor because it penalizes Strength characters too much and even in real life worn armor is much lighter than armor in a backpack.

[Tanarii]

I think it's fair for you to use encumbrance but I think it's unfair to enforce it mid-dungeon because you didn't allow them to take it in consideration before heading out. It slipped through, move on for now and start tracking it from next time they resupply.

If it wasn't brought up as a rules exception in session 0, it's fair to enforce it at any time.

In this case, the OP has clarified that it was brought up specifically that it wasn't an exception in session 0. That's above and beyond what's required, and makes it even more fair to enforce it at any time.

[Fishyninja]

Well at present my current decisions is

I have made a macro to help me as the DM track the players encumbrance. I have also just text the entire party stating that we did all agree to use the encumbrance rules in session 0 and that I would like to continue to do that, however if they do not wish too we can have a chat about it and work out something potentially.

I have stated that if we are going to do encumbrance, if a player doesn't know the weight of something (i.e. not in the PHB) then let me know and I'll add it in after session Unless it is going to make them over encumbered in the session.

[Gorilla2038]

Encumbrance is one of those tricky rules that I've never seen much fun come from- and it tends to bring in a wierd minigame feel, of managing screens.

That being said, one of the easiest routes to bypassing it is more realistic realism- no one has ever left gold in a dungeon. They do what us old farts do- hirelings, caravans, and enough guards to fight off a small army.

If you want more realism, simply ask the party for the method they use to carry overweight stuff- wagons, horses, sleds, what have you. Then, ask for a combat loadout- the things they keep on them at all times. Modern soldiers loadouts can reach 180 pounds ( or more, if youre humping your full gear and that damn mortar baseplate), but most don't try to run around at 400 total pounds. Just pick what they have, and make the fighter pull a red rider wagon around, or create a *fun* minigame that allows for your level of fun with it.

Perhaps unhelpfully, consider that DnD, and it's baseline assumptions, make for difficult realism. Offer them the chance to do these things, and make sure if you modify it to fit there normals, agree on " ok, the gm says that's way too much stuff". If the party can loot it, assume they do, and I'd they can't, have a good reason- the ceilings falling, the dragon hoard transport is it's own quest line in which the party has to choose between helping folks and making sure they get every penny, rtc

Lastly, just consider giving loot that's smaller and more valuable. A +X sword of butt kicking is a great find in a dungeon, but less so if everyone are axe-vikings. Frankincense and myrrh. Rare components. Spices. Things that are very valuable but have to be stored properly, allowing inventory management realism in a way that's more interesting than numbers. Create interactions with those numbers, reward intelligent thinking, possibly even consider an environment where loot is more fluid- lost and destroyed, has to be sold, etc. Boom and bust cycles are fun, but even smaller things, the feeling that you have to *protect* loot, thats different and very important.

Cheers.

[greenstone]

When I see people claiming that adding and subtracting numbers on a character sheet is "too hard" or "unnecessary", I wonder how diligently they are tracking other things that involve adding and subtracting numbers on the character sheet; namely experience and hit points.

Or to put it bluntly, if you're not tracking encumbrance correctly then how can I trust that you are tracking hit points correctly?

Adding treasure to a character sheet and "forgetting" to update encumbrance doesn't seem much different to taking damage and "forgetting" to update hit points. Then again, I have a suspicious mind.

I am a big fan of meaningful choices. If you choose to put 8 in STR then that choice should have a conseqence (not being able to carry much loot).

[Avonar]

Well at present my current decisions is

I have made a macro to help me as the DM track the players encumbrance. I have also just text the entire party stating that we did all agree to use the encumbrance rules in session 0 and that I would like to continue to do that, however if they do not wish too we can have a chat about it and work out something potentially.

I have stated that if we are going to do encumbrance, if a player doesn't know the weight of something (i.e. not in the PHB) then let me know and I'll add it in after session Unless it is going to make them over encumbered in the session.

I think this is the best way to do it.

You seem to like this group. That's the most important thing here. I wouldn't think it's worth risk people becoming unhappy with the group for the sake of a relatively minor rule such as encumbrance, regardless of who is in the right (and for the record, if you told them from the start and reiterated it throughout, then I don't think you've done anything wrong).

Another potential suggestion would be to allow it for this dungeon, since getting people to dump a bunch of their items in the middle of a dungeon probably leaves a feel bad taste, and press for it once they are done.

[Gorilla2038]

Or to put it bluntly, if you're not tracking encumbrance correctly then how can I trust that you are tracking hit points correctly?

Well, you can't. If you're the rare person who's never added a +1 to a roll, took 1 less HP that kept you standing, kept 1 extra Mana in that final boss battle.... actually, that's rad and you're probably a really good person, so serious props on that. But I guarantee you the only other person at the table who can say the same is the new guy you made be the cleric.

But the real reason they're different is simple- value and cost in gameplay. Outside of dramatic gameplay, encumbrance rules have no interactions or game purpose. They have very few rules that interact with them, they somewhat contradict one of the core cultural tenants of DnD (woot loot and if it's nailed down, we all brought crowbars) that's reinforced by mechanics ( to paraphrase Vin Diesel, what am I doing with a rusty shortsword? I slay the orcs and take their stuff).

While characters are defined by items, it's not their weight interactions, something small and out of sync with High Fantasy as a High Concept. Rand Al'Thor and Kaladin fight to the death, no one's asking if either is over weight, took their vitamin supplements, maintained a regular training pattern, or made sure they were carrying light loads.

Hit points, in addition to honestly being closer to "cheating" or at least unsportsmanlike conduct, have multiple rule interactions (leveling, abilities, enemy to hit, healing), a constant source of personal interaction, and directly affect the plot, flow, and your fellow players actions, as well as your own.

Which isn't to say that you're wrong for liking those rules! Buy I'm willing to bet a shiny nickel that a poll would say that 70+% don't track encumbrance, and considering I've never heard of this argument outside DnD (but several times related to DnD), I'd bet that number is closer to 80% in other rpgs. The answer is simply because it's make work, it's never really important outside of some very rare situations (most of the ones coming to mind have more dramatic weight than physical for not taking the silverware), and it doesn't help the story.

So I guess really what I'd say is trust is about context. If your buddies don't want to hang out with the girl who've been seeing but don't know her last name, that's one thing. If your buddies don't want to hang out with your wife, that's a different trust issue.

PS, If you do have any encumbrance based encounters or interactions that are neat, I'd love to here them. I really like the idea of " it's too heavy to lift" as the main reason you lose a fight.

[Jerrykhor]

This is what Bag of Holding is for - lazies who hate tracking encumbrance. I'll be honest, i dont like tracking rations and ammo. Feels too much like like bean counting, and its not fun. Plus, after a certain level, you have so much gold that these things cost an insignificant amount of money anyway. 5e likes to do a lot of assumptions too, such as assuming the adventurers maintain their equipment during rests, thats why theres no durability mechanics for gear right? So why cant they assume i forage for food and stock up on ammo whenever possible too? I dont mind tracking rations when I am a low level, poor adventurer just starting out with nothing but basic equipment, but once you established yourself as reknowned heroes, having to worry about whether you have enough food to eat is laughable. Bag of Holding is there so that we can ignore these bothersome mechanics and focus on playing game - the stuff that is fun, not the dry stuff. You know, the whole point of playing the game. Fun. Never forget that. And you are a DM, not a school teacher.

Encumbrance rules is not a hill worth dying on. Realism is overrated anyway. Is HP realistic?

[Willie the Duck]

When I see people claiming that adding and subtracting numbers on a character sheet is "too hard" or "unnecessary", I wonder how diligently they are tracking other things that involve adding and subtracting numbers on the character sheet; namely experience and hit points.

Or to put it bluntly, if you're not tracking encumbrance correctly then how can I trust that you are tracking hit points correctly?

I don't find this particularly convincing. It seems that the #1 reason that people are mildly rebelling against the encumbrance tracking is that they don't see the value in it. Anyone who has played the game knows darn well that an inaccurate HP tally will effect the gameplay.

That's really where I'm diverging from the OP in general where otherwise we agree-- yes, if the DM requests that people adhere to rule XYZ then the players should either do so or stop gameplay and start a discussing/negotiating/arguing cycle and resolve the difference in gameplay desires rather than just soft rebelling, however I am not getting the impression that they are trying to 'get away with something.' It seems to me more that they feel encumbrance tracking is busywork, and to be honest, the modern game conspires to instill that impression. Back when encumbrance was measured in 'coins(cn)' and experience points were measured in GP worth of treasure dragged back to town, there was an obvious line between encumbrance space used and XP opportunities lost*. Nowadays, with heavier armor not always being better (except for the weight), builds solidifying such that you won't be switching between many weapons (no WvsAC chart, etc.), and it being hard enough to make GP past a certain point seem interesting, I get why someone might not see the value in diligently engaging the encumbrance system.
*Although it should be noted that even in the oD&D days, 5% of all miscellaneous magic items were bags of holding which could hold a half ton, meaning that the 'difficult decisions and careful weighing of opportunity costs' was a low-level thing you quickly outgrew as you progressed, pointing out that it was always considered somewhat tedious.

To be clear, I love the idea of mundane constraints and having to balance difficult choices. I wish this edition did more to engage in the mundane/exploration pillar/ weighing of options part of the game. My last adventure I had the players trying to figure out how to get their horse and wagon across a river after the ford had been washed away and everyone found it incredibly engaging. However, I don't think the game makes it obvious, particularly to players who didn't experience previous versions of the game, exactly why that part of the game would be exciting or an interesting challenge. I think that's where the DM needs to step in -- not as an enforcer looking for cheaters and malfeasance to stamp out -- but as a promoter and pitchman, selling the notion of the value of this portion of the game.

[Pex]

Potentially. In all honesty I think the 5E Encumbrance method is fine, people are just being picky about going:

"Well I picked up 10 items this session, you expect me to look into the PHB to find the weights?!"

Which Roll20 does for you anyway.

I agree with them in the sense that 'most' times encumbrance does not really matter but if you have a party who are say at 99% capacity, and they find a crap ton of gold (tens of thousands of pieces) then suddenly it becomes important because they physically cannot carry all of it. Again with my example of the bag of holding, it has a weight limit which has consequences.

It seems to me that some of the players want a game without consequence and to me that sort of removes the point of D&D

That is where encumbrance becomes the least fun, more than tedious bookkeeping. It's not about consequences. It's a richard move to give out all this treasure but then go nyah nyah you can't have it because of encumbrance. If you do take it you have to lose what you took earlier or some useful equipment. It's the DM pulling chains. There is common sense dealing with bulk. You cannot hold 10 suits of plate mail even if you don't use encumbrance, but the DM is giving the players the middle finger to offer treasure they can't have. Do this and the players will hate encumbrance more, making the game unfun.

To make encumbrance fun it should not be tedious bookkeeping of everything they carry at what specific location down to the ounce and copper piece value. The bad guys have to be affected too somehow. They need their own pack mule or cart the party can take with them after the battle. They need to be slowed down such that even if given a few days head start the party catches up with them in less time precisely because the party moves faster. The party cannot be constantly losing their own horses, pack mules, and carts, thus their stuff, due to the weather, terrain they can't cross with them, thieves, or errant magical effects of battle. Do not make encumbrance feel like a chore or punishment.

[Asisreo1]

Also, in case some forget, space is also a thing with carrying stuff. You can't carry a chest full of gold and a Large Ball of Iron without somewhere that can take them and they both fit.

There's usually not any rigorous way to calculate the space something occupies but it should go without saying that a barrel can't fit in a player's backpack and a gallon of water doesn't stay in a backpack.

[Zhorn]

bah, you young folks having been spoiled with your digital currencies, and your virtual loot, and cloud based libraries.
back in my day, equipment, loot and resources were heavy, and you could only carry so much.
Where dumbing stats has serious consequences, where having enough torches to see in the lower dungeon levels was a serious concern, and starvation was a legitimate hazard.

To be honest I don't really care for the whole "encumbrance is just tracking numbers and therefore is not fun and should be ignored" arguments. It's like the folks leaning on that have no idea what game they're playing. ALL of d&d's rules are math wearing the disguise of imagination. Don't like math and tracking numbers, play another system, there are plenty out there that don't need numbers and are entirely narrative games.
HP
gold pieces
ammunition
spell slots
if you don't want to track one, why bother tracking any. And if you don't want to track any, just play something else. D&D doesn't own the concept of roleplay.

[Sol0botmate]

I get you, but the problem is I have some players happy to do so, and some who are not, even though I have asked as the DM for them to use Encumbrance. I really don't want to get into a huge disagreement with them over this but I cannot be running rules differently between the party members.

So where is the problem? You have one group that wants to do it and one that does not. So go with Encumbrance rules with one that want it and forgo it with others that do not. What's the issue? You really want to make a dispute/argument about something as trivial as Encumbrance?

For the reference I ignore it, my DMs ignore it and I met only one DM ever that was not ignoring it but gave up in the middle of campaign because people just didn't do it anyway because it's boring or they simply were forgetting it anyway because it's so.... well, boring.

Listen, it's not like someone wants to be able to concentrate on two different spells. If your WHOLE group does not want to use it- just agree with them. If 4 or 5 people don't want to do it, and 1 does - you want 5 to have less fun because of 1 person or 5 having more fun by making 1 slightly having less fun. It's not a big deal. We as DMs don't go there to force everyone to play only as we see it. Players are also adults who prefer some things or not. The most important thing as DM is make players have fun. You are there for them to see that you made them have fun and played awesome session.

There is no compromise here other than that because mechanic is simple - you either calculate it or not.

I hate and never care about encumberence becaue there are way more important things in RPG to focus on than that.

It's so trivial that it could not really exist in DnD at all.

[OldTrees1]

bah, you young folks having been spoiled with your digital currencies, and your virtual loot, and cloud based libraries.
back in my day, equipment, loot and resources were heavy, and you could only carry so much.
Where dumbing stats has serious consequences, where having enough torches to see in the lower dungeon levels was a serious concern, and starvation was a legitimate hazard.

To be honest I don't really care for the whole "encumbrance is just tracking numbers and therefore is not fun and should be ignored" arguments. It's like the folks leaning on that have no idea what game they're playing. ALL of d&d's rules are math wearing the disguise of imagination. Don't like math and tracking numbers, play another system, there are plenty out there that don't need numbers and are entirely narrative games.
HP
gold pieces
ammunition
spell slots
if you don't want to track one, why bother tracking any. And if you don't want to track any, just play something else. D&D doesn't own the concept of roleplay.

All of D&D's rules are math wearing the disguise of imagination. That is true. However, is D&D a popular form of recreational math, OR is the D&D math a means to an end?

Personally, despite loving recreational math like Mathologer, Stand-up Maths, or 3 blue 1 brown, I don't see D&D as filling that role. Almost all of D&D's math is boring math. So that means the D&D math is a cost we pay for some other benefit (albeit benefits derived from and supported by the math).

So if the math is a means to some other end, it is possible that the return on investment is different in various areas of D&D. Knowing the size of a fireball takes very little math but means your PC is not incinerating their allies. That is quite an efficient ratio. Encumbrance, when relevant, is adding 30-70 numbers together and in exchange you get to know how your character can move and who they can save when you are retreating. That is a much less efficient ratio.

Now I actually like encumbrance because it helps set a limit to how prepared my characters can be. That lets me decide on a finalized kit rather than an open ended quest to carry everything they need (What do you mean a kitchen sink will never be needed? How do you know?). Since I use encumbrance, I know it is much more math intensive and inefficient than other areas of D&D. That helps me understand groups that collectively decide to not use encumbrance.

But I would be remiss if I did not point out yet another detail. I don't see encumbrance as "just tracking numbers" because I found something in it that is more than just tracking numbers. I valued how encumbrance lets me finalize a kit. Without something valuable at the end of the busywork, it is just tracking numbers and it is pointless.

Hopefully those 2 points clarified possible contexts for those arguments.

[Fishyninja]

To make encumbrance fun it should not be tedious bookkeeping of everything they carry at what specific location down to the ounce and copper piece value. The bad guys have to be affected too somehow. They need their own pack mule or cart the party can take with them after the battle. They need to be slowed down such that even if given a few days head start the party catches up with them in less time precisely because the party moves faster. The party cannot be constantly losing their own horses, pack mules, and carts, thus their stuff, due to the weather, terrain they can't cross with them, thieves, or errant magical effects of battle. Do not make encumbrance feel like a chore or punishment.

This, I get. and this is how I try and run my games, and the players do this as well, as soon as they could they all bought Horses and one of them has a cart. This was back when they were level 2 and they are now level 10, so they are used to packing for trips etc. I think the issue is that they could not bring horses or carts with them to this dungeon, so they are having to walk and due to the position of the dungeon its not an easy trip.

I don't want it to feel like a punishment but I also do not want to be in a situation where (and please note that this is probably an exaggerated example) because players have been under the assumption we are not using that when I try to enforce it they see it as a punishment. I mean this is not actually an exaggerated example.

So where is the problem? You have one group that wants to do it and one that does not. So go with Encumbrance rules with one that want it and forgo it with others that do not. What's the issue? You really want to make a dispute/argument about something as trivial as Encumbrance?

Because you are running 2 different rule sets for the group on something which should be universal.

Listen, it's not like someone wants to be able to concentrate on two different spells.

No, but I have had some people in this group (who are also dissenting the encumbrance rule) say that they should be able to do things such as that or cast two leveled spells without Quickened Spell etc.

If your WHOLE group does not want to use it- just agree with them. If 4 or 5 people don't want to do it, and 1 does - you want 5 to have less fun because of 1 person or 5 having more fun by making 1 slightly having less fun. It's not a big deal. We as DMs don't go there to force everyone to play only as we see it. Players are also adults who prefer some things or not. The most important thing as DM is make players have fun. You are there for them to see that you made them have fun and played awesome session.

I am just asking them to stick to a rule that we all agreed to in session 0, yes they are adults and yes we are there for fun. I understand all that and preferences are fine, but they have actively agreed to a rule set out in session 0 and are now choosing to ignore it. Which in turn is causing stress in the group and for me as well. I could just throw out the encumbrance ruling sure........but the majority of the people who play do use it and enjoy it.

There is no compromise here other than that because mechanic is simple - you either calculate it or not.

I agree, the mechanics are simple and I have asked them to calculate which they supposedly have been fine to do for nearly a year or so but suddenly when a large amount of gold may potentially up for grabs...........they do not want to calculate it anymore.....

It's so trivial that it could not really exist in DnD at all.

Maybe, Maybe not I don't think it is a trivial rule but I can understand why a lot of people think it is.

[Pandamonium]

I am just asking them to stick to a rule that we all agreed to in session 0, yes they are adults and yes we are there for fun. I understand all that and preferences are fine, but they have actively agreed to a rule set out in session 0 and are now choosing to ignore it. Which in turn is causing stress in the group and for me as well. I could just throw out the encumbrance ruling sure........but the majority of the people who play do use it and enjoy it.

I super agree with that you are right to hold them to what was afreed in session 0. They are adults and not wanting to follow the rules is childish.

I don't think you should back down, yes the job as a DM is for the players to have fun but not at the expense of your own, It is your game and if they don't want to play your game I don't think you have to give up on what you see an integral mechanic, there are more tables and more players.

[diplomancer]

This, I get. and this is how I try and run my games, and the players do this as well, as soon as they could they all bought Horses and one of them has a cart. This was back when they were level 2 and they are now level 10, so they are used to packing for trips etc. I think the issue is that they could not bring horses or carts with them to this dungeon, so they are having to walk and due to the position of the dungeon its not an easy trip.

I don't want it to feel like a punishment but I also do not want to be in a situation where (and please note that this is probably an exaggerated example) because players have been under the assumption we are not using that when I try to enforce it they see it as a punishment. I mean this is not actually an exaggerated example.



Because you are running 2 different rule sets for the group on something which should be universal.



No, but I have had some people in this group (who are also dissenting the encumbrance rule) say that they should be able to do things such as that or cast two leveled spells without Quickened Spell etc.



I am just asking them to stick to a rule that we all agreed to in session 0, yes they are adults and yes we are there for fun. I understand all that and preferences are fine, but they have actively agreed to a rule set out in session 0 and are now choosing to ignore it. Which in turn is causing stress in the group and for me as well. I could just throw out the encumbrance ruling sure........but the majority of the people who play do use it and enjoy it.



I agree, the mechanics are simple and I have asked them to calculate which they supposedly have been fine to do for nearly a year or so but suddenly when a large amount of gold may potentially up for grabs...........they do not want to calculate it anymore.....



Maybe, Maybe not I don't think it is a trivial rule but I can understand why a lot of people think it is.

I'm neutral on Encumbrance, if my DM wants it I'll use it, if he doesn't care except at the extremes I'll be happier. If I'm the DM, the rule exists, but in a Schrödinger way.

That said, some of your players ARE annoying cheaters, stop playing with them, they probably cheat even more than you think. For instance, if you are not playing in a platform with a fully automated comvat tracker, they are probably cheating on HPs, Magic Item charges, and Ammo (such boring things to track!) Concentrating on 2 spells means that no sane person will play a pure martial, and if they DO they will feel useless. Casting 2 leveled spells is illegal even with Quickened spell; only way to do it is with Action Surge.

Don't be afraid to let them go; DMs are far more rare than players, they can be easily replaced. Consider how much energy you are spending on them just here and make room for more positive, less argumentative, players.

[Pelle]

I am just asking them to stick to a rule that we all agreed to in session 0, yes they are adults and yes we are there for fun. I understand all that and preferences are fine, but they have actively agreed to a rule set out in session 0 and are now choosing to ignore it. Which in turn is causing stress in the group and for me as well. I could just throw out the encumbrance ruling sure........but the majority of the people who play do use it and enjoy it.

You will most likely have more success convincing them if you explain why you want to use the rule, instead of referring to them agreeing in session 0 and saying that you want to follow a rule because you want to follow the rule.

And if you have been playing for a year and it is first now that encumbrance has mattered, the players are correct in that it is generally pointless to track it (in this campaign). Perhaps tracking encumbrance mean that they can carry 20 arrows less. However, if the number of arrows they have dont matter, then there are still no real consequences or meaningful choices to be made.

[Unoriginal]

You will most likely have more success convincing them if you explain why you want to use the rule, instead of referring to them agreeing in session 0 and saying that you want to follow a rule because you want to follow the rule.

You shouldn't have to convince people to do what they've agreed to do. Especially when they've been blatantly disrespecting you.

[Fishyninja]

I'm neutral on Encumbrance, if my DM wants it I'll use it, if he doesn't care except at the extremes I'll be happier. If I'm the DM, the rule exists, but in a Schrödinger way.

That said, some of your players ARE annoying cheaters, stop playing with them, they probably cheat even more than you think. For instance, if you are not playing in a platform with a fully automated comvat tracker, they are probably cheating on HPs, Magic Item charges, and Ammo (such boring things to track!) Concentrating on 2 spells means that no sane person will play a pure martial, and if they DO they will feel useless. Casting 2 leveled spells is illegal even with Quickened spell; only way to do it is with Action Surge.

Don't be afraid to let them go; DMs are far more rare than players, they can be easily replaced. Consider how much energy you are spending on them just here and make room for more positive, less argumentative, players.

This has been part of my concern and now because of this I am thinking, 'Are they tracking gold and items correctly, what about HP and spell slots?'

You will most likely have more success convincing them if you explain why you want to use the rule, instead of referring to them agreeing in session 0 and saying that you want to follow a rule because you want to follow the rule.

Well, we all agreed to it so we should all want to follow the rule, if they didn't want to them things should have been said. Again people change their minds on things but it should have been brought up rather than being ignored.

Also I have discussed the whys as well. I didn't put this in the OP originally because I was trying to avoid a huge wall of text.
My reasons why I like Encumbrance:

- Has applications in game more than just inventory management such as the carrying of wounded comrades or captured enemies
- Makes players think about their resources and what is needed for the mission ahead.
- Allows for creative thinking to logistics problems, even if that thinking is as simple as using Mage Hand or Unseen Servant.
- Generates Choices which have risks and conflicts, which makes the choices more meaningful.

Yes I get that most people don't follow encumbrance and in all honesty most of the time it rarely comes up as a rule but for me, its that choice it gives players, that allows for growth and progression.

Lets take the example of carrying a downed friend out of combat, lets assume that you cant heal them up and get them in the fight. What do you do? You can drag them at half speed which is an option. Or you can carry them and the 100 odd lbs of gear they are carrying which will change how you can operate mechanically. So do you take the risk of potential reduced movement by carrying them with gear, or start shedding their gear or yours?

This is just an example and I am not saying you cannot play D&D without encumbrance. You can I just feel it has an important role to play.

[Pelle]

My reasons why I like Encumbrance:

- Has applications in game more than just inventory management such as the carrying of wounded comrades or captured enemies
- Makes players think about their resources and what is needed for the mission ahead.
- Allows for creative thinking to logistics problems, even if that thinking is as simple as using Mage Hand or Unseen Servant.
- Generates Choices which have risks and conflicts, which makes the choices more meaningful.

Those are all well and good, but it sounds like situations like that haven't come up until after playing for a year. So either make sure they come up more often, or highlight and make a point of it if they actually do.

[MoiMagnus]

You shouldn't have to convince people to do what they've agreed to do.

And they shouldn't have said they agreed to do something they were not convinced to. They have definitely a big part of responsibility in this problem, and in an ideal world they should be the one realising that there is a problem and being the proactive in the resolution.

But if the goal is to mend the relationship, and not just obtain them to reluctantly keep track of encumbrance, starting on new fresh basis by clearing up misunderstanding is always better than calling up to "do what you agreed to do".

I mean, reluctant players can be fine for short campaigns. But it's never fun to have at your table players being obviously reluctant to a part of the game because they are convinced this is a frustrating part.

[Unoriginal]

And they shouldn't have said they agreed to do something they were not convinced to. They have definitely a big part of responsibility in this problem, and in an ideal world they should be the one realising that there is a problem and being the proactive in the resolution.

They're the only ones with a part of responsibility in this problem.

But if the goal is to mend the relationship, and not just obtain them to reluctantly keep track of encumbrance, starting on new fresh basis by clearing up misunderstanding is always better than calling up to "do what you agreed to do".

I mean, reluctant players can be fine for short campaigns. But it's never fun to have at your table players being obviously reluctant to a part of the game because they are convinced this is a frustrating part.

Personally I would start on new fresh bases by removing the problem players unless they make a genuine effort to apologize, and *then* we can discuss the rules again if I still want to play with them.

OP is more magnanimous than I, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the conversation shouldn't be "well, you should try X to appease the people who've been treating you badly".

So where is the problem? You have one group that wants to do it and one that does not. So go with Encumbrance rules with one that want it and forgo it with others that do not. What's the issue? You really want to make a dispute/argument about something as trivial as Encumbrance?

The problem/issue/argument isn't about Encumbrance, it's about the very non-trivial lack of respect for their fellow tablegoers and DM one has to have to ignore a rule on purpose when it suits them.

[Rynjin]

Lemme put the situation to you this way.

You played for multiple sessions without even noticing that your players were tracking encumbrance. That is the clearest indicator I can think of that the actual impact on your game is precisely zero. What's more, you were presumably happy with your situation.

You are currently unhappy. You have made yourself unhappy by realization that a rule you weren't actually doing anything with anyway is not being used properly by some players.

You are spreading that unhappiness to those players, where before they were happy. You are keeping the situation of the other half of players exactly the same; they seem to be completely neutral on the subject.

The simple solution here is...make yourself and half the players happy again. You were clearly and demonstrably more satisfied with your gaming experience by not running encumbrance, as were two other people.

You're basically just riled up over the principle of the thing, by my read. That never makes anyone happy.

Let it go.

[Unoriginal]

Lemme put the situation to you this way.

You played for multiple sessions without even noticing that your players were tracking encumbrance. That is the clearest indicator I can think of that the actual impact on your game is precisely zero. What's more, you were presumably happy with your situation.

You are currently unhappy. You have made yourself unhappy by realization that a rule you weren't actually doing anything with anyway is not being used properly by some players.

You are spreading that unhappiness to those players, where before they were happy. You are keeping the situation of the other half of players exactly the same; they seem to be completely neutral on the subject.

The simple solution here is...make yourself and half the players happy again. You were clearly and demonstrably more satisfied with your gaming experience by not running encumbrance, as were two other people.

You're basically just riled up over the principle of the thing, by my read. That never makes anyone happy.

Let it go.

"Lemme put the situation to you this way.

You played for multiple sessions without even noticing that your players were cheating. That is the clearest indicator I can think of that the actual impact on your game is precisely zero. What's more, you were presumably happy with your situation.

You are currently unhappy. You have made yourself unhappy by realization that a rule everyone agreed to use is not being used properly by some players.

You are spreading that unhappiness to those players, where before they were happy. You are keeping the situation of the other half of players exactly the same; they seem to be actually playing by the rules.

The simple solution here is...make yourself and half the players happy again. You were clearly and demonstrably more satisfied with your gaming experience by not being aware of the fact players were cheating and disrespecting you, as were two other people.

You're basically just riled up over the principle of the thing, by my read. That never makes anyone happy.

Let it go."

I wonder in what other occasions you're advocating to "let it go".

Players don't count the gold they spend, let it go?

Players doesn't subtract damages to their PCs' HPs correctly, let it go?

Queen has problems controlling the ice powers she's been suppressing her whole life, let it go?

Also:

You're basically just riled up over the principle of the thing, by my read. That never makes anyone happy.

Let it go.

By that logic, if you find out your long-term partner with whom you've agreed have an exclusive relationship has been sleeping with someone else, you should just accept it unless you were harmed physically or in another tangible fashion (ex: lost money, etc) because otherwise it's just being "riled up over the principle of the thing".

[diplomancer]

How this conversation would go if encumbrance had just been an ignored part of the game so far AND the players you mention were not cheaters:
DM- Hey guys, are you all still tracking your encumbrance?
Players- Gee, it's been so long since last I tracked, let me check it.

Then, realizing they were overboard, there'd be a frank and fruitful conversation between DM and players to resolve the immediate situation, maybe even with some backtracking to buy another cart, for instance, and then the game would proceed as normal with no further hiccups.

Sadly, that's not the case here

[Unoriginal]

How this conversation would go if encumbrance had just been an ignored part of the game so far AND the players you mention were not cheaters:
DM- Hey guys, are you all still tracking your encumbrance?
Players- Gee, it's been so long since last I tracked, let me check it.

Then, realizing they were overboard, there'd be a frank and fruitful conversation between DM and players to resolve the immediate situation, maybe even with some backtracking to buy another cart, for instance, and then the game would proceed as normal with no further hiccups.

Sadly, that's not the case here

How this conversation would go if it had been something people cared about more than encumbrance.

[Tanarii]

Those are all well and good, but it sounds like situations like that haven't come up until after playing for a year. So either make sure they come up more often, or highlight and make a point of it if they actually do.

It sounds like the situations hasn't arose after playing for a year because they intentionally weren't tracking encumberance.

[Fishyninja]

So from looking at the responses it seems a fairly even split between:

- Its not a big deal, just don't bother with Encumbrance

and

- You asked them to do something and they haven't this needs to be sorted.

Now maybe the argument I am going to propose is exaggerated, but if we throw out an established rule like encumbrance because its boring to track, why not throw out HP, because you have to track that, or class resources and spell slots? You know what lets get rid of DC's as well?

I am intentionally being sarcastic to make a point. It may seem like a minor thing, but it is important to some of the players in the group and to me.
Is it wrong to feel upset and concerned that something I have asked my players to do is being ignored by some?

[KorvinStarmast]

It's not a question of the Encumbrance rules, it's a question of you telling your players a rule, your players nodding and then saying "yeah, I'm not doing that."

Yeah, a social contract issue.

If they don't respect you by refusing to follow a rule, there's no reason they'd respect you for anything else.

I, generally, dispute the "it's too hard" to add and subtract argument.

Everyone, including the DM. Being disrespected is not fun.

DMs are allowed to have fun too.

When I see people claiming that adding and subtracting numbers on a character sheet is "too hard" or "unnecessary", I wonder how diligently they are tracking other things that involve adding and subtracting numbers on the character sheet; namely experience and hit points.

I have a similar problem with players failing to track their hit dice for healing. It's not that hard.

I am a big fan of meaningful choices. If you choose to put 8 in STR then that choice should have a conseqence (not being able to carry much loot).

Bingo.

That is where encumbrance becomes the least fun, more than tedious bookkeeping. It's not about consequences. It's a richard move to give out all this treasure but then go nyah nyah you can't have it because of encumbrance.

The decision point comes: do we mind moving a bit more slowly, and still carry all of those copper and silver coins, or do we need to be able to move at our normal rate and leave the least valuable coins behind. But one thing I have done more of, lately, as a DM, is rather than piles of coins like copper and silver I'll convert them into low cost jewelry or 'silver plated goblet' of that value or "a beautifully made electrum ring worth (a few GP or a few hundred copper pieces). The only mosters I have sitting on piles of coins are dragons, due to tradition, and a few humanoid NPCs. The other kinds of treasure tend to be earrings, neclaces, arm bands, rings, etc.
Or, in a few of the bandit hoards: bottles of perfume, bolts of silk, barrels of whisky, etc.