Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

[Ranged Ranger]

Ok, almost finished the creating my class... Can't decided if I like the name Incandescent Shadow or Radiant Shadow better. Here is the flavor text:

A secretive organization, dedicated to protecting the best interests of the goodly kingdoms through covert means – radiant shadows utilize political, social, and/or economic pressures; espionage; blackmail; assassinations; and precision military strikes (often using mercenaries for that last technique) to ensure the greater good. Of course, their definition of greater good may or may not align with anyone else’s, and their division into independent cabals of 15 to 150 operatives (plus the children of operatives, who are often trained from a young age to become operatives) means that they may often be working at cross purposes with other cabals within the greater “organization”.

A radiant shadow’s abilities are derived from a series of rituals that infuse magical energy into their body to gain special traits. These rituals involve having magical glyphs in the Illumian language drawn on their skin and then other radiant shadows casting spells with the shadow and light descriptors on them. They alternate between major and minor rituals each level. There are two categories of rituals: moon/lunar rituals that increase their control over their appearance and lantern rituals that forge a connection between their body and magical writing.

Consistently taking Moon/Lunar options gives you all the traits of a changeling by your 5th lvl in the class; consistently taking Lantern options will give all Illumian traits by the same level... (and mixing and matching will create some sort of hybrid).

[Jormengand]

Ok, almost finished the creating my class... Can't decided if I like the name Incandescent Shadow or Radiant Shadow better.

You could always use the word Chiaroscuro (meaning "The interplay between light and shadow") somewhere in the name of your class's name. Out of the two listed, radiant shadow is probably better; incandescent usually means liable to burst into flame.

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Incidentally, can anyone think of any famous(ish) poems about creation or animals (in general, rather than one specific type of animal) which aren't either exceptionally long or so sycophantically religous that they would never get past the forum rules? Because I'm having far more problem finding a poem for the maker than I did for the leveller, terror or apothecary.

[Ranged Ranger]

You could always use the word Chiaroscuro (meaning "The interplay between light and shadow") somewhere in the name of your class's name. Out of the two listed, radiant shadow is probably better; incandescent usually means liable to burst into flame.

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Incidentally, can anyone think of any famous(ish) poems about creation or animals (in general, rather than one specific type of animal) which aren't either exceptionally long or so sycophantically religous that they would never get past the forum rules? Because I'm having far more problem finding a poem for the maker than I did for the leveller, terror or apothecary.

Thanks for the suggestion, going with the plural form... From the updated flavor text:

The Chiaroscuri (sometimes called radiant shadows)’s abilities are derived...

EDIT: I've now posted the class... Still need to add the new Sigil(s), Word(s), and feats... I've Ruul, its Improved Sigil and its Words on paper, just need to flesh them out and upload them. I also have the Sigil and Improved Sigils for Laen and Voosh, but not sure if I can come up with that many Sigil Words.


Sorry, I can't think of any poems that meet your criteria...

[Westhart]

Well, finished up four paragons and most of a thief style class for the pixie.... Haven't posted them yet, but am slowly working on it

Also, the submissions so far look great!

[Aniikinis]

Welp, I'm not sure if I wanna touch up my class at all. Does anyone have any pointers or things I might wanna take another look at?

[Ranged Ranger]

Welp, I'm not sure if I wanna touch up my class at all. Does anyone have any pointers or things I might wanna take another look at?

My only comment is are you sure you mean to include all rodents in the Rodent Empathy and Lord of the Rats features? Squirrels and rats are pretty much mortal enemies when their habitats overlap... Also having a hard time picturing a rat having that lvl of influence on beavers or capybara... Personally I'd be tempted to exclude any members of families Castoridae, Caviidae, or Sciuridae that exist in game...

On the other hand, I can understand liking the simplicity of not making suggestions...

[rferries]

Welp, I'm not sure if I wanna touch up my class at all. Does anyone have any pointers or things I might wanna take another look at?

Really just quibbles (overall I quite like your class, smooth and logical progression and I intend to allot some votes to it), but here goes:

1) Dire animals have all good saves and only 3/4's BAB, not sure if you want to edit your class to reflect that (see my own questions below).

2) It might be helpful to indicate whether the class abilities are Ex/Su/SP, probably won't be very important but might help if they ever interact with an antimagic field etc.

3) Virulent Disease - although it's a technically a debuff by removing flexibility I'd just remove the "may" part; ifyou're using a disease attack I can't envision a scenario where you wouldn't want the max DC.

4) Prehensile Tail - specify whether they can use magicm items (wands, potions etc.) if not actual weapons.

5) Strengthened Claws - 3.5 is really bad for standardising natural attack damage, so this is optional but I'd use Pathfinder rules (1d3 for claws while Small, increasing to 1d4 with the size increase; plus you cold give Improved Natual Attack (claws) and/or (bite) as a bonus feat).

6) Rodent Empathy - I think Ranged Ranger is being funny :D

7) False Look - alter self is a transmutation and therefore provides tangible benefits (swim speed etc), if you describe the effect as an illusion that would imply you don't get those benefits.

8) Plague Lord - unless otherwise stated an SLA has a save of 10 + spell level + Cha modifier, I assumethat's the case here?

9) Lord of the Rats - how often does a rodent have to save against this ability - every round (as a gaze attack), multiple times per round (if it triggers with each attack)? Are they immune for 24 hours if they make their save?

Now a couple questions for the crowd about my class:

1) Should the class have outsider traits (full BAB, all good saves, 8 skill points/level), like Mercane racial HD?

2) Should the Level Readjustment be rewritten as shown below? This would make it possible for a Mercane PC to adventure (admittedly just with an outsider RHD chassis to start, but improving much faster than the original Level Readjustment ability allowed).

Level Readjustment (Ex)
At 1st level, a Mercane with levels in Interplanar Merchant ignores his racial level adjustment. He loses this ability whenever he takes a level in a class other than Interplanar Merchant, but regains it every time he takes another level of Interplanar Merchant. At 10th level, an Interplanar Merchant permanently ignores his racial level adjustment.

[Aniikinis]

My only comment is are you sure you mean to include all rodents in the Rodent Empathy and Lord of the Rats features? Squirrels and rats are pretty much mortal enemies when their habitats overlap... Also having a hard time picturing a rat having that lvl of influence on beavers or capybara... Personally I'd be tempted to exclude any members of families Castoridae, Caviidae, or Sciuridae that exist in game...

On the other hand, I can understand liking the simplicity of not making suggestions...

I'm gonna keep the simplicity, if a group wants to be realistic then they can modify it appropriately.

Really just quibbles (overall I quite like your class, smooth and logical progression and I intend to allot some votes to it), but here goes:

1) Dire animals have all good saves and only 3/4's BAB, not sure if you want to edit your class to reflect that (see my own questions below).

Hmm, I'm probably gonna increase it to that honestly, but I'm probably gonna keep the Full BAB.

2) It might be helpful to indicate whether the class abilities are Ex/Su/SP, probably won't be very important but might help if they ever interact with an antimagic field etc.

Will do, and most will end up being Ex.

3) Virulent Disease - although it's a technically a debuff by removing flexibility I'd just remove the "may" part; ifyou're using a disease attack I can't envision a scenario where you wouldn't want the max DC.

The sad part is that I can actually think of a few different scenarios I'd use it in. For one example, if you wanted to use contagion on yourself (to grab slimy doom, blinding sickness, shakes, or mindfire instead of filth fever for your attacks with Plague Lord) but not have to deal with the increased save.

4) Prehensile Tail - specify whether they can use magicm items (wands, potions etc.) if not actual weapons.

Will do.

5) Strengthened Claws - 3.5 is really bad for standardising natural attack damage, so this is optional but I'd use Pathfinder rules (1d3 for claws while Small, increasing to 1d4 with the size increase; plus you cold give Improved Natual Attack (claws) and/or (bite) as a bonus feat).

Yeah, I've definitely noticed that when designing encounters/races/creatures. I'll probably stick with my current numbers but I will add in the INA feats to later levels of the class.

6) Rodent Empathy - I think Ranged Ranger is being funny :D

I can see where he's coming from, and I actually thought about it when designing the ability, but decided not to implement it to help ease usability.

7) False Look - alter self is a transmutation and therefore provides tangible benefits (swim speed etc), if you describe the effect as an illusion that would imply you don't get those benefits.

I was thinking Disguise Self when I wrote that, will modify it.

8) Plague Lord - unless otherwise stated an SLA has a save of 10 + spell level + Cha modifier, I assumethat's the case here?

Keep in mind how contagion works, the Save DC is based off of the DC of the disease inflicted when using it. The Save DC is Disease DC+ Virulent Disease if used.

9) Lord of the Rats - how often does a rodent have to save against this ability - every round (as a gaze attack), multiple times per round (if it triggers with each attack)? Are they immune for 24 hours if they make their save?

It should trigger with each attack, I'll note that. And they aren't immune for 24 hours, but I wonder if it would make it more balanced if I was.

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Now a couple questions for the crowd about my class:

1) Should the class have outsider traits (full BAB, all good saves, 8 skill points/level), like Mercane racial HD?

Hmm, normally I'd say yes but probably not due to the accelerated spellcasting. Maybe 3/4th, 2 good, and 6 points? Scratch that, give them outsider traits.

2) Should the Level Readjustment be rewritten as shown below? This would make it possible for a Mercane PC to adventure (admittedly just with an outsider RHD chassis to start, but improving much faster than the original Level Readjustment ability allowed).

Level Readjustment (Ex)
At 1st level, a Mercane with levels in Interplanar Merchant ignores his racial level adjustment. He loses this ability whenever he takes a level in a class other than Interplanar Merchant, but regains it every time he takes another level of Interplanar Merchant. At 10th level, an Interplanar Merchant permanently ignores his racial level adjustment.

I'm going to say yes mostly due to the fact that LA sucks hard, but this also adds an additional problem: Multiclass gets even more penalized than it already is.

[Jormengand]

NA, I don't mean to, like, alarm you or anything, but... uh, I have like a hundred and sixty two more elite creatures to make and only a couple of people (I honestly can't tell how many) have actually finished. Can we get a deadline extension, please?

[MrNobody]

Unfortunately, december was an hell of a month, with family stuff and everything... i don't think i'll be able to finish my Primus. I hope i can give more attention to the next one.

[neriractor]

I would also like an extension to the deadline.

[Westhart]

NA, I don't mean to, like, alarm you or anything, but... uh, I have like a hundred and sixty two more elite creatures to make and only a couple of people (I honestly can't tell how many) have actually finished. Can we get a deadline extension, please?

Whoa...

Unfortunately, december was an hell of a month, with family stuff and everything... i don't think i'll be able to finish my Primus. I hope i can give more attention to the next one.

I would also like an extension to the deadline.

...But yes, let's extend the deadline, how long would everyone prefer though?

(I must admit that I could use it as well )

[Baby Gary]

I think I am going to have to drop out of this competition, I just don't have the inspiration to continue on the class I was making and I don't want to spend forever coming up with another one. I still will probably judge though.

[Westhart]

I think I am going to have to drop out of this competition, I just don't have the inspiration to continue on the class I was making and I don't want to spend forever coming up with another one. I still will probably judge though.

Sad to hear it, feel free to still comment on others and whatnot. Good luck in any future contests you enter!

[Jormengand]

A couple weeks would probably do. That would be, what, 11 creatures a day, ish? Probably doable. Or even one week if I feel like pushing myself.

[Westhart]

A couple weeks would probably do. That would be, what, 11 creatures a day, ish? Probably doable. Or even one week if I feel like pushing myself.

How about 3 eh?
Gives me some time with school getting back in soon and all, and shold be able to finish everything.

[Jormengand]

How about 3 eh?
Gives me some time with school getting back in soon and all, and shold be able to finish everything.

Amateur!

3 it is, then. Pssh, at least some of us have actually been working on our classes in the standard time!

[Ranged Ranger]

So the class proper for my entry has been finished for a couple weeks now, other than some mistakes I just corrected... (Let me know if you see any I've still missed)

My new Ruul and Laen Sigils with related Sigil Words and Improved Sigil Feats are all up now.

Extended time may allow me to come up with Sigil Words for Voosh... If not, I'm fine entering the competition without Voosh. Mostly adding new Sigils/Sigil Words to make up for having to say "See page X in book Y" to avoid posting features that are not open content...

Please PEACH... Especially interested in feedback on the new Sigils/Sigil Words...

[Westhart]

Amateur!

3 it is, then. Pssh, at least some of us have actually been working on our classes in the standard time!

Now Jorm, I am wounded . I've been working on them, and have all the paragon classes beside the satyr done, a class for the pixie done, and am working on a few others. Really the LeShay will take a good bit of time with what I intend to do.

[JoshuaZ]

Well, I never even had time to start mine for this one, and unfortunately with the new semester starting I'm not going to be able to. I may do some quick PEACHing this weekend of the existing entries though.

[Jormengand]

You know, I don't think I'm even surprised that three posts weren't enough. My rough estimate is now six, but honestly I don't know.

Also elite dire animals were boooooooooriiiiiiiing. Seriously, there's only so many ways to express "This is an animal but better" on one monster.

[noob]

Basically you take an animal then make it better twice?
Also there is already two kinds of banshee called banshee in 3.5(one updated from 3.0 by wotc and one from forgotten realms) and one in pathfinder so unless you are doing your prc for something else than dnd 3.X then it is weird to call one of your elite monsters banshee.

also

Elite spells like folding fortress are difficult to resist fully. See invisibility and similar devices don't reveal the entrance, and even true seeing only entitles the user to an opposed caster level check to attempt to see it. The elite versions of both spells work fine, however.

I guess I resist very efficiently the stare of a medusa: I became stone?
I think you are trying to do a "conjurer: the elite caster" and a "monster manual: the elite manual" that is excessive work.(which makes you have an hard time writing all the details and seeing if the template fits)

[Jormengand]

Also there is already two kinds of banshee called banshee in 3.5(one updated from 3.0 by wotc and one from forgotten realms) and one in pathfinder so unless you are doing your prc for something else than dnd 3.X then it is weird to call one of your elite monsters banshee.

I'm not overly concerned that there might be multiple monsters lurking somewhere with the same names. Like you said, there's already two, so it's not like duplicates can't happen.

I guess I resist very efficiently the stare of a medusa: I became stone?

???

I think you are trying to do a "conjurer: the elite caster" and a "monster manual: the elite manual" that is excessive work.(which makes you have an hard time writing all the details and seeing if the template fits)

I mean, yeah, it's a lot of work. But it's fine, I've managed this kinda level of stuff before and I'll manage it again.

[noob]

Elite spells like folding fortress are difficult to resist fully. See invisibility and similar devices don't reveal the entrance, and even true seeing only entitles the user to an opposed caster level check to attempt to see it. The elite versions of both spells work fine, however.

You used the term resist for speaking of detecting the folding fortress.
Probably because you do not have the time for proof reading everything.

[Jormengand]

You used the term resist for speaking of detecting the folding fortress.
Probably because you do not have the time for proof reading everything.

The invisibility effect on the door is difficult to resist, as in overcome. It makes a roundabout kind of sense, but it does make sense.

[noob]

The invisibility effect on the door is difficult to resist, as in overcome. It makes a roundabout kind of sense, but it does make sense.

Yes but to any normal person it looks like if you fell asleep because of overworking and then did not read back the template you copied with the local modifications due to the spell.
(people knowing you knows you do not sleep and that you never fail a true-name check)

[Ranged Ranger]

Went ahead and uploaded most of my remaining Sigil words, Vooshkrau is the only one I have left...

Am I correct that the three week extension makes the new deadline the 26th?

[Jormengand]

"I might need to reserve two posts". Oh, my naive past self. How hopelessly optimistic you were.

[Westhart]

"I might need to reserve two posts". Oh, my naive past self. How hopelessly optimistic you were.

Hehe, I've just realized that I may need another (le sigh).

Well, got the paragons up, and be warned they could be called 3 level PrC's instead, as they are a tad more powerful, but seeing that all of them have either LA or RHD (if not both) I think it's fine. Now, the Le Shay have been bothering me, as really once you take out their spell likes they are too similar to a soulknife (sigh). So, have a rough, but it resists any attempts to make it better. On the bright side I have a fae scholar concept that's almost done, and besides cap stones it seems the rest are roughly done... just on time it seems

Oh Jorm, nice work with all the Elite's, but question: The invisible stalker is undetectable (elite version), does that include magic that would detect it?

[Jormengand]

Hehe, I've just realized that I may need another (le sigh).

Well, got the paragons up, and be warned they could be called 3 level PrC's instead, as they are a tad more powerful, but seeing that all of them have either LA or RHD (if not both) I think it's fine. Now, the Le Shay have been bothering me, as really once you take out their spell likes they are too similar to a soulknife (sigh). So, have a rough, but it resists any attempts to make it better. On the bright side I have a fae scholar concept that's almost done, and besides cap stones it seems the rest are roughly done... just on time it seems

Oh Jorm, nice work with all the Elite's, but question: The invisible stalker is undetectable (elite version), does that include magic that would detect it?

Because see invisibility and true seeing remove invisible from the list of things it is (inaudible, inolfactible, intangible...) you can see it with that. Similarly if your wizard has researched a true hearing spell, it would work. Because divination abilities like discern location aren't senses (and some, like circle dance, actually give you feedback by pointing you in the right direction, literally turning your body towards the target) those would work. Scrying wouldn't let you see it without some kind of spell that works through a scrying sensor, and clairaudience wouldn't let you hear it. Darkvision (the spell) grants darkvision (the sense) and therefore wouldn't work.

In particular, detect thoughts, see invisibility, locate creature, true seeing, discern location and greater prying eyes would detect it. Clairaudience, clairvoyance, arcane eye, scrying and greater scrying wouldn't. Detect magic, arcane sight and greater arcane sight might, depending on whether or not it was under a spell effect. Prying eyes might, because they might get stuck trying to move through the hidden doom, but they can't see it. Foresight wouldn't detect it exactly, because it doesn't really do that, but it does give you warnings on how best to protect yourself, which could include "Cast see invisibility and look up".