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  1. - Top - End - #1291
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Hog-ties as used on humans are a bit different than hog-ties as used on animals (understandably so, given the anatomical differences), so I'm not sure that's a dysfunction.

  2. - Top - End - #1292
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Here's a mildly interesting one: The Justicar's Hog-Tie ability cannot actually be used to tie hogs as it only works against humanoid-shaped creatures.
    So a wereboar can escape a hogtie by going into hog form.

    I wonder just how loosely one can play the 'humanoid shaped' rule. You could say that most bilaterally symmetrical quadrupedal vertebrates have a generally 'humanoid shape'. Does an ape count? A monkey? A lemur? A rat?
    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    But as we've agreed, sometimes the real power was the friends we made along the way, including the DM. I wish I could go on more articulate rants about how I'm grateful for DMs putting in the effort on a hard job even when it isn't perfect.

  3. - Top - End - #1293
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Early I mentioned about how oddly certain Special Attacks interact with changed or just non-standard Size
    Now I noticed: the same can be said about the most of feats with a Size category prerequisites
    What, you will say: loss of prerequisites cause feat to stop working?
    Yes...
    Unless it's a bonus feat!

    It's not a dysfunction, but still, probably, an unintended oversight: Urban Companion
    This is identical to the sorcerer's ability to summon a familiar (PH 52), including all benefits granted and gained by the familiar, except as noted below. Her functional level for determining the abilities of the companion is equal to her druid level or one-half her ranger level.
    • She does not lose experience points if her urban companion is slain, and she requires only 24 hours to replace one who is lost.
    • Her urban companion has total hit points equal to 3/4 her own hit points, rather than half as per a familiar.
    •The urban companion gains the ability to speak with other animals of its kind when she has an effective master level of 1st, rather than 7th.
    •When she reaches an effective master level of 7th, she can speak with animals of her companion's kind, as per speak with animals. This is a supernatural ability that functions constantly, and it requires only a free action to reactivate if somehow dispelled.
    Note: this list doesn't include something like "doesn't qualify for Improved Familiar feat" or "can't benefit from", or something like it

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Awaken undead
    Note: this quote is from the Libris Mortis; updated spell in Spell Compendium lacks that line completely, and older version in Savage Species says:
    Awakened undead do not regain any skills, feats, or extraordinary abilities they had in life, but they do gain skill points ([4 + Int mod] × HD)and feats (one for first Hit Die, one for each three HD thereafter) normally after being awakened.

  4. - Top - End - #1294
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Not sure if dysfunctional, but the Ectopic Adept has some strange wording. Its capstone and 3rd-level ability only function when you have as many craft (sculpting) ranks as manifester levels, which gets weird quickly.

    "Hey, Bob the Ectopic Adept! Didn't you use to be able to create two astral constructs?"
    "I did, but I forgot to take the mandatory pottery classes while fighting monsters in a dungeon, so I forgot how to do so."
    "Then why does Fred the Ectopic Adept still has that ability? He hasn't expanded his pottery knowledge either."
    "Yeah, but he decided to learn divine magic rather than expand his psionic powers: obviously creating more astral constructs is easier then."
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  5. - Top - End - #1295
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Not sure if dysfunctional, but the Ectopic Adept has some strange wording. Its capstone and 3rd-level ability only function when you have as many craft (sculpting) ranks as manifester levels, which gets weird quickly.

    "Hey, Bob the Ectopic Adept! Didn't you use to be able to create two astral constructs?"
    "I did, but I forgot to take the mandatory pottery classes while fighting monsters in a dungeon, so I forgot how to do so."
    "Then why does Fred the Ectopic Adept still has that ability? He hasn't expanded his pottery knowledge either."
    "Yeah, but he decided to learn divine magic rather than expand his psionic powers: obviously creating more astral constructs is easier then."
    If it's based on pure manifester level (and it looks like it is), the class abilities don't work with significant ML boosts (> +3 ML), either. The class was already pretty stupid, with the nerf to astral construct and all, but now it's dysfunctional, too.
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  6. - Top - End - #1296
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD - Weapon Proficiency feats
    Benefit
    You make attack rolls with the weapon normally.

    Normal
    A character who uses a weapon with which he or she is not proficient takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls.
    Not sure if it has been done, but the Weapon Proficiency feats does nothing. The "Benefit" does not grant "proficiency", it simply states that you make attack rolls normally. It then tells you that normally you take a -4 penalty.
    Last edited by ShiningStarling; 2016-09-29 at 02:25 PM.

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  7. - Top - End - #1297
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by ObliviMancer View Post
    Not sure if it has been done, but the Weapon Proficiency feats does nothing. The "Benefit" does not grant "proficiency", it simply states that you make attack rolls normally. It then tells you that normally you take a -4 penalty.
    Lol. Good one.

    The PHB however clears up that this is not what the normal section tells us:
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB p. 89
    Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no
    particular drawback, this entry is absent.
    "Normally" in the description can only mean without penalty for non proficiency.

    There is a quirk though. Since the feat does not make the character proficient but only removes the penalty, the character would not qualify for any other feats or classes that require proficiency

  8. - Top - End - #1298
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Andezzar View Post
    Lol. Good one.

    The PHB however clears up that this is not what the normal section tells us:
    "Normally" in the description can only mean without penalty for non proficiency.

    There is a quirk though. Since the feat does not make the character proficient but only removes the penalty, the character would not qualify for any other feats or classes that require proficiency
    Interesting, and also nice catch. I almost like the not qualifying for feats better.

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  9. - Top - End - #1299
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Shatter Mind Blank can negate a psionic mind blank or a personal mind blank affecting the "target". The power does not have a target, it has an area. In fact, the entire power is written assuming the power has one, single target.
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2016-09-30 at 10:17 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #1300
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    (PF) A combat maneuver specialist can use the Drag maneuver to pull enemies that are much heavier than their normal dragging weight limit. A mid-level strength 8 character can drag 800 pounds of object under ideal circumstances, but has only minor trouble hauling around a paralyzed 2000 pound centaur.
    Last edited by Bucky; 2016-10-01 at 12:10 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #1301
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Goliath's Mountain Rage: because it says "Large" rather than "+1 size category", it works weird on Goliaths who are bigger than Large (By the RAW, it make 'em smaller )

    Goristro - demon which looks like a huge Minotaur - don't have a Gore attack

    Shade Hunter (Champions Of Ruin):
    Tools of the Trade: By 4th level, you have picked up so many knickknacks and strange tools on your travels that you've lost track of everything you own. Once per day, you can "find" any mundane piece of equipment (other than weapons or armor) worth up to 10 gp per class level somewhere on your person, having forgotten completely about it. When you do so, you must subtract an equivalent amount of gold (or other treasure - gems, jewelry, art, etc.) from your savings. If you do not have enough gold to cover the cost of the item you want, you might not find the item with this ability.
    At 10th level, it will be 100 gp. It's the cost of a Carriage, or Warpony, - both are non-magical equipment and not an armor or weapon

  12. - Top - End - #1302
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Goliath's Mountain Rage: because it says "Large" rather than "+1 size category", it works weird on Goliaths who are bigger than Large (By the RAW, it make 'em smaller )
    Try a Stoneblessed Hairy Spider: who doesn't like nonmagically growing and shrinking five size categories?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Shade Hunter (Champions Of Ruin):At 10th level, it will be 100 gp. It's the cost of a Carriage, or Warpony, - both are non-magical equipment and not an armor or weapon
    Is something still equipment if you can't equip it, though?
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Try a Stoneblessed Hairy Spider: who doesn't like nonmagically growing and shrinking five size categories?
    Only humanoids can be Stoneblessed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  14. - Top - End - #1304
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Not true, you can also be a monstrous humanoid or giant. Not something most Hairy Spiders will manage to be, though.

    Also, I'm not sure that Stoneblessed gives Powerful Build in the first place?

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    The Silver Key has the following ability:

    Cunning Body (Su): By 6th level, a silver key's form has developed the ability to adapt to a number of dangerous environments:

    If submerged in liquid, you automatically activate a water breathing effect.
    If you fall more than 5 feet, you automatically activate a feather fall effect.
    If you are paralyzed, you automatically activate a remove paralysis effect.
    The interesting part is where you gain the water breathing even if you aren't submerged in water. A Silver Key who jumps into molten steel, for example, will waste one of his uses of this ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Only humanoids can be Stoneblessed.
    Human heritage: your human ancestry is from a Shapechanging wizard with particular fetishes. Alternatively, take the entropic and half-troll templates.
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  16. - Top - End - #1306
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Human heritage: your human ancestry is from a Shapechanging wizard with particular fetishes. Alternatively, take the entropic and half-troll templates.
    Quote Originally Posted by human heritage
    Prerequisite Half-human race or human-descended race
    Merely saying that your character is part-human without that being part of the Official Lore(TM) of your race (or template?) probably doesn't cut it. Unfortunately I can't think of any Half-Human templates out there, although that would be pretty handy!


    Half-troll entropic hairy spiders are giants, though, so that'll get you into stoneblessed and hence Goliath Barbarian.

    Really, it's somewhat strange that they made them specifically turn Large rather than just increasing by one step - after all, Stoneblessed is in the same book and there's Small races in the Player's Handbook. The fine-to-large hairy spider is an obvious outlier, but even just using core+RoS you've suddenly got small-to-large halflings!

    Small Large.
    (Although his size category increases by one step, the goliath barbarian’s height only increases by a foot or so and his mass only increases by about 30–40%, so his equipment still fits normally.)
    Also interesting (and yet another thing that indicates that the Racial Substitution Levels guy did not talk to the Prestige Classes guy) is this line:
    However, he does not gain additional benefits on weapon size and grapple checks, since he already has them from his powerful build ability.

  17. - Top - End - #1307
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Try a Stoneblessed Hairy Spider: who doesn't like nonmagically growing and shrinking five size categories?
    You wouldn't like that spider when it's angry!
    Fine-sized creature turning into Large-sized while raging is just good
    Huge (or even Colossal ) creature - into Large - is just weird: what's up, it get smaller while raging?
    And even worse: it says "height only increases by a foot or so";
    if creature was smaller than Large, then it's OK;
    if creature was already Large, we can say it's "foot or so" taller, but still Large
    if creature is Huge or larger, then there is no excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Is something still equipment if you can't equip it, though?
    They are in Chapter 7: Equipment, so, unless there are some RAW which says they aren't, they are equipment!
    I will say more: since services are in the same chapter, they are equipment too, and could be suddenly "found" by Shade Hunter of sufficient level

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini476 View Post
    Also, I'm not sure that Stoneblessed gives Powerful Build in the first place?
    No, it doesn't - class description don't have any mentions of Powerful Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Alternatively, take the entropic and half-troll templates.
    Doesn't Entropic Creature template change type to Outsider for any living creature?

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    I will say more: since services are in the same chapter, they are equipment too, and could be suddenly "found" by Shade Hunter of sufficient level.
    "Help us, Shade Hunter! The legions of Baron Evillicious are descending upon us, but our siege equipment has been sabotaged!"
    "Look at that! I had a fully equipped carpenter in my pocket all along!"

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Doesn't Entropic Creature template change type to Outsider for any living creature?
    It does, which makes the spider a viable recipient for for half-troll. Half-troll then changes it back to giant.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    According to page 70 of Oriental Adventures, an OA campaign not taking place in Rokugan does not have unarmed strikes. And here we thought monks being nonproficient was dysfunctional: it's way worse.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Spiderfriend Magic feat (Drow of the Underdark):
    Benefit
    Your spells have no effect against vermin allies (but affect vermin enemies normally).
    Wait a minute...
    What's will happen with vermins which are neither allies, nor enemies, but still in the spell's AoE?

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Spiderfriend Magic feat (Drow of the Underdark):Wait a minute...
    What's will happen with vermins which are neither allies, nor enemies, but still in the spell's AoE?
    They are also affected normally. Power Attack does not mention what effects it has on your character's height, so we can assume it has no effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  22. - Top - End - #1312
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    Lightbulb Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    The voidmind template says:

    Attacks: A voidmind creature gains a tentacle attack. At will, the creature can extrude a tentacle (resembling an oversized mind flayer tentacle) from the psionic slime in the creature's skull. This tentacle sprouts from the head of the voidmind creature and can attack with a reach 5 feet longer than the base creature's normal reach.

    If the base creature can use weapons, the voidmind creature retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A voidmind creature fighting without weapons uses the primary natural attacks of the base creature, or the tentacle attack if the base creature doesn't have natural weapons. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead.
    Nowhere is the possibility to retract the tentacle mentioned, which is rather weird for a creature that's supposed to be a perfect illithid spy.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Hmm, there also doesn't appear to be anything about an upper limit to how many tentacles you can extrude; and it explicitly says you can do so at will.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    Hmm, there also doesn't appear to be anything about an upper limit to how many tentacles you can extrude; and it explicitly says you can do so at will.
    Oh god, it's Warshaper all over again.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    But can warshapers grow voidmind tentacles?
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    A warshaper can grow any natural weapons it desires and as many as it desires so long as it doesn't grow them in the same position (only two claw attacks if it has only two arms, only one bite if it only has one mouth, one gore attack per head, etc.). Since tentacles don't have a "slot," a warshaper can grow as many as it pleases.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    The voidmind template says:



    Nowhere is the possibility to retract the tentacle mentioned, which is rather weird for a creature that's supposed to be a perfect illithid spy.
    It's called a hat.

    Turbans are good too. Worked for Professor Quirrel.

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    So, i was reading intensify spell meta magic and reading it says it increases only the dice, no other effects. If this metamagic was used on something with dice damage and then extra damage, like magic missile dealing 1d4+1 would the extra dice give the +1 damage? a strict reading seems to say no.

    Also, would bloodlines that give 1 damage per dice still affect it?
    This one seems more likely

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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Warforged appear as massive humanoids molded from a composite of materials—obsidian, iron, stone, darkwood, silver, and organic material—though they move with a surprising grace and flexibility. Flexible plates connected by fibrous bundles make up the body of a warforged, topped by a mostly featureless head.
    Apparently darkwood isn't an organic material.
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    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

    Listing darkwood separately from organic material does not necessarily mean that it is not organic

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