Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

[Taffimai]

Many thanks!

[Snowblaze]

Hi, nice to meet you! Percy Jackson is probably the most referenced game, beyond that I'd probably recommend the most recent games (Afterlife/the ongoing Love Letter).

Though do bear in mind Percy Jackson is several times more crazy than is usual round here. Which is saying something.

[Supagoof]

While waiting for the next game to start, I was hoping to read some of the older ones. Can someone tell me whether the PJ game people keep referencing is Percy Jackson Maffia or Percy Jackson Werewolf?

Also, any recommendations for games that would be good to prepare me for the upcoming one (similar rules or often referenced by players) would be very welcome.

Thanks!

Hi Taffimai! Welcome. As for older games - I'm not sure which to point you at, but I would suggest instead of looking through the game archives, you could instead look through the current players in a few of their recent games. I took a hiatus for awhile and recently came back myself, and should have done that just to get used to the style of how people play. I feel you would gain a lot there. Take a look at AvatarVecna - they've been around awhile and IMHO are an extremely good player.

For the basics - look at any WW game in the first post of this thread. Easiest to look at earlier games - as we wrote the rules out more often.
Variants of the games take off from there, and are usually explained in the recruitment thread/first post of those games.

Some common terms however that will help.
Day phase - time frame where deductions are happening and no actions are being used (usually).
Night phase - time frame where actions are happening (Werewolf kill, baner protection, seer looking at someone)

Villager/Townie/Citizen - no special abilities or actions besides their sharp wits. They win when they eliminate the wolves.
Wolf/Mafia/Scum - the bad guys. They are usually hiding, and if they outnumber the villagers, they win.
Baner/Doctor/Hero - Village aligned person who protects someone each night.
Seer/Detective/Investigator - Village aligned person looking for a wolf each night.

Terms I've learned since I've come back.
OMGUS - Oh my god you suck. Usually a logic used to seek revenge on another player at the start of a game as payback for a previous game.
BUS - Throwing someone under the bus.
Yeet - I'm old and have no idea, but apparently it refers to booting someone into the sun.

[AvatarVecna]

Love Letter Mafia has ended in a victory for the scumteam. If totadileplayz hasn't posted a recruitment thread within a day or so of this post, I'll ping them about starting their game. If I don't here back from them in another day or so after that, I'll keep things moving forward.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Looking to workshop some ideas for my next game. Spoilered for length but there's nothing secret in it.

Spoiler: Dead of Winter Mafia idea

Show

So, the board game I'm adapting this time is called Dead of Winter. It has a few mechanics that I'd like to adapt to Mafia eventually, but I figured I'd only pick out one or two this game. Some of them I need help balancing, some of them I'd like advice for how they can work well.

Crisis
Each turn, there's a Crisis to deal with. If enough resources are contributed by players, then nothing bad happens. The way I planned to use this was to make an all power game, but each Night players decide to use their power or help the Crisis that Night. If not enough people help with the Crisis then the penalty is that powers won't work that Night at all.

• How many people should need to give up their powers for this to work? 50%? Less? More?
• Should a failed Crisis prevent the Mafia kill also? If the kill still goes through, wouldn't Mafia never contribute to the Crisis so no one has powers but they still kill?
• Is this even fun in the first place? I like the risk/reward structure but for players this might feel like giving them a cool power and then telling them they shouldn't use it.

Secret Objectives
Each player has a secret objective during the game that they must achieve in order to win. They usually make it slightly harder for the group, it's usually hoarding supplies or something like that. For Mafia, an example could be the Cop needing one or two investigations to give a result of town - rather than hunting Mafia they may investigate people they trust to achieve that goal.

• This doesn't work so well in a game where people are eliminated early - whoever dies Day 1 and 2 probably won't complete their objectives and lose anyway.

Exile
In the game, if you suspect someone of being a traitor, you can vote to exile them from the game. For Mafia, rather than being lynched the player voted could be exiled instead - their alignment wouldn't be revealed, they wouldn't be able to vote and wouldn't count toward victory, but the town could later vote to bring them back into the game.

• I like the idea of being able to bring someone back if you change your mind on them, but I'm not sure anyone would do it in practice?
• Maybe it would work better if players could still target exiled players? So a cop could check the person you just voted out and if they claim that the person was innocent, you have to decide whether or not to trust the cop?

Crossroads Cards
Each turn, there's a chance that a Crossroads card is activated. If it is, the player is presented with a hard choice: picking between two options with pros and cons or taking a risk of either getting a reward or getting penalized. In Mafia, the payer would be presented with a choice at the beginning of the Day or Night phase and would have that phase to make a decision.

• Who gets to make this choice? My idea was that whoever has the second most votes at the end of the Day, and the person who was targeted most at Night. But I could have people do a second vote for who gets to make the choice.

Characters
There are named characters in the game with their own professions, abilities, an Influence value. I could use Influence for ties, abilities/profession would dictate powers.

• Influence might be unnecessary but if I do named characters it would probably be an all power game. I'd just have to decide if the list of possible characters/roles is public or not.

Different Locations

In the game, you search for items at different locations and move your characters around the board. I could use this to restrict actions/let people talk at night based on their locations?

• I'd consider making it so you can only target people at your location. It would restrict town's ability to use their powers (if there's two people at the Gas Station and one of them is the Seer, they can only target the person they're with) but also limits the mafia (if there are three people at the Library and one of them dies, one of the other two is the killer).
• Night talk is nice but not sure how much it helps/adds to the game.

After typing that all out, I think I'll go with the Crossroads part of the game and possibly using the named characters as roles (no swapping them around this time though). But that's not definite at all, so any feedback would help.

[Taffimai]

I really like the idea of Dead of Winter Maffia, and I want to specifically request Sparky to be in it somehow.

You seem decided on the crossroads mechanic, so perhaps instead of lynching we could vote who has to do it (and some might be lethal). For the crisis I thought it could take your lynch vote rather than your night action, and the location could be incorporated that way: you either stay in the colony and get to vote, or you go somewhere to forage for supplies. At night, the saboteurs (maffia) have to choose whose supplies to steal hoping to make town fall short. If the crisis is resolved, a saboteur gets found out and exiled, if not, a townie starves/freezes/falls sick/dies of exposure/gets bitten/... Your character (role) could then give bonuses to foraging/fortifying/surviving disease or whatever rather than night actions.

Those are some of my ideas, I don't know how feasible they are or whether they work with what you were envisioning. Either way I think it's a great idea, and don't forget Sparky

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I'm gonna think it over, your ideas make sense, I just want to make sure I don't throw in so much that it's barely mafia anymore but something else entirely. I was originally just going to do the crisis thing but then it feels like I'm giving everyone powers and telling them you should play it as vanilla Townes.

Also, you brought up foraging for supplies - if I go with the different locations, maybe people can find one shot powers at each location?

Sparky will be incorporated somehow :)

EDIT: one thing I want to make sure of is that there's a vote to lynch every day like normal (the exile idea messes with that but it's still removing someone from the game). If we take away town's ability to remove someone like that, then I don't feel like it's mafia anymore.

[Taffimai]

EDIT: one thing I want to make sure of is that there's a vote to lynch every day like normal. If we take away town's ability to remove someone like that, then I don't feel like it's mafia anymore.

That is an excellent point, and one I think most players would agree with.

Also, you brought up foraging for supplies - if I go with the different locations, maybe people can find one shot powers at each location?

If you have inspiration for those powers, definitely. Powers are popular, and this would bring variation to the game! I think there should be an element of danger though, but I'm not sure how to do that so as to make it balanced.

Sparky will be incorporated somehow :)

[AvatarVecna]

totadileplayz hasn't responded to my PM, and checking their post history indicates they haven't posted in almost 7 weeks. Unavenger, are you able to run your game?

[Supagoof]

Also, you brought up foraging for supplies - if I go with the different locations, maybe people can find one shot powers at each location?

I did something similar to this in Ye Olde West, just had a grid pattern laid out corresponding to # of players in game. Each day they picked publically a spot they were looking at, along with their point. 1 time banes, 1 time seers, 1 time save from the noose were all items that could be found. Given the dynamic of YOW, I also had money in play. It worked very well for me.

[Unavenger]

totadileplayz hasn't responded to my PM, and checking their post history indicates they haven't posted in almost 7 weeks. Unavenger, are you able to run your game?

Indeed I am. Upick 2 is now recruiting.

[AvatarVecna]

Indeed I am. Upick 2 is now recruiting.

Schedule updated.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

So, after what we've talked about for the locations, I might go in a different direction than my first few plans.

Spoiler: Dead of Winter plan

Show

To fit with the zombie theme/scavenging to survive that is part of most zombie shows, everyone is a vanilla townie/mafia member.

The Discussion Phase (Day) goes like normal - vote to lynch, public reveal and all of that. Everyone individually chooses the location that they want to go to during the next Phase.

The Scavenge Phase (Night) has players visiting other locations to scavenge for supplies/powers. Players at the same location during the Night Phase have a private chat that they can use only during that Night (so, the people who are together can talk). They also must agree on how to use the corresponding power.

For example: Snowblaze, Avatar Vecna, and Xihirli all go to the Hospital (Bane/Doc power). During the Night they can talk and must agree (by majority) on how to use the power (who gets healed).



The possible locations would be:
The Colony - You spend time helping survivors at the colony. Any player here will get the support of another survivor and will have two votes during the next Day Phase.
Police Station - You spend time searching the local police station for guns. Everyone at the Police station must agree on one player to kill or agree not to use the kill.
Grocery Store - idk, you like, pick up groceries or something? tbd. JOAT maybe?
School - You spend time searching the school for information. Everyone at the School must agree on one player to investigate. All players here will see whether the target is Town or Mafia. Only one of School/Library will be investigation.
Library - You spend time searching the school for information. Everyone at the School must agree on one player to investigate. All players here will see whether the target is Town or Mafia. Only one of School/Library will be investigation.
Hospital - You spend time searching hospital for medical supplies. Everyone at the Hospital must agree on one player to protect during this Phase.
Gas Station - You spend time searching the gas station for fuel. Everyone at the Gas Station must agree on one location to watch. All players here will see all players who were at the selected location

I'd like to keep the locations the same (these are the option in the game) but I gotta think about what you can get from each. Investigation would be the Police Station or library. Extra kill might be Police Station too (voting not to use the Vig kill is an option here). For the Colony, either they agree on one person to get an extra vote the next day or everyone who stays behind there gets an extra vote the next Day.

Edit: Edits made are in italics


I think this setup would have enough for mechanically minded people to do planning (deciding who and how many people should go to each location) but also give new things to analyze (why did person X push for so-and-so to be saved?). You'd have to worry about the Mafia sending someone to the Hospital to report back who is getting saved or sending someone to influence who gets investigated.

Looking for feedback on this new version. I think this is distinct enough from your game Supagoof, but if picking powers is too close to your idea let me know and I won't use it.

[Batcathat]

Looking for feedback on this new version. I think this is distinct enough from your game Supagoof, but if picking powers is too close to your idea let me know and I won't use it.

Seems interesting. So would the choice where to go at night be made publically or privately?

[Taffimai]

I like it. Random ideas:

• Some of the locations could have limited spots.
• The school could also be investigation (you go check someone's old yearbook/grades)
• Perhaps a vigilante type thing for the police station, as that's where you mainly go to get weapons (in the game)?
• If you go with the idea that the choice of who goes where is made in private, then one of the locations could reveal who went where (I'd pick the gas station, because everybody has to stop there first to get fuel and you just stick around to see where they all head off to, but the police station is also an obvious choice).
• Alternatively, maybe maffia can only kill someone if at least one of their members shares a scavenging location with that person. This would make the previous idea OP for town.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Seems interesting. So would the choice where to go at night be made publically or privately?

I would accept either, though if you say one thing publicly and one privately I would use the one you gave privately. Publicly discussing where people would want to go may be helpful regardless.

I like it. Random ideas:

• Some of the locations could have limited spots.
• The school could also be investigation (you go check someone's old yearbook/grades)
• Perhaps a vigilante type thing for the police station, as that's where you mainly go to get weapons (in the game)?
• If you go with the idea that the choice of who goes where is made in private, then one of the locations could reveal who went where (I'd pick the gas station, because everybody has to stop there first to get fuel and you just stick around to see where they all head off to, but the police station is also an obvious choice).
• Alternatively, maybe maffia can only kill someone if at least one of their members shares a scavenging location with that person. This would make the previous idea OP for town.

• Maybe limited spots, that might have more to do with how many players we get.
• School makes sense for investigation
• Yeah, police station will probably end up being vig kill.
• I like the gas station as some sort of watcher/tracker function but I'll probably need to iron out the other abilities first so this makes sense. Not sure many people will lie about where they went (there's enough people at various locations that it'd be hard to pull that off at the beginning of the game). (Though, that could help out late game where it might be only one or two at a location - either tracking someone or checking a location) (Not sure if it's worth going there over somewhere else but that's for players to decide)
• I kinda like that idea but if I do that, then it might not make sense for the Vig shot to come from the police station to go shoot someone at a different location. I'll think about that too.

[Book Wombat]

Maybe one could have their vote count as double for the next night action if they go to the Grocery Store? Kinda like having more morale or bribing others with food?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Spoiler: Dead of Winter plan

Show

To fit with the zombie theme/scavenging to survive that is part of most zombie shows, everyone is a vanilla townie/mafia member.

The Discussion Phase (Day) goes like normal - vote to lynch, public reveal and all of that. Everyone individually chooses the location that they want to go to during the next Phase.

The Scavenge Phase (Night) has players visiting other locations to scavenge for supplies/powers. Players at the same location during the Night Phase have a private chat that they can use only during that Night (so, the people who are together can talk). They also must agree on how to use the corresponding power.

For example: Snowblaze, Avatar Vecna, and Xihirli all go to the Hospital (Bane/Doc power). During the Night they can talk and must agree (by majority) on how to use the power (who gets healed).



The possible locations would be:
The Colony - You spend time helping survivors at the colony. Any player here will get the support of another survivor and will have two votes during the next Day Phase.
Police Station - You spend time searching the local police station for guns. Everyone at the Police station must agree on one player to kill or agree not to use the kill.
Grocery Store - You spend time searching for supplies. During the next Night phase, your vote for the Night action counts double.
School - You spend time searching the school for information. Everyone at the School must agree on one player to investigate. All players here will see whether the target is Town or Mafia. Only one of School/Library will be investigation.
Library - You spend time searching for books. Each Night, the power here will be random. It will include the abilities from the other locations, plus others.
Hospital - You spend time searching hospital for medical supplies. Everyone at the Hospital must agree on one player to protect during this Phase.
Gas Station - You spend time searching the gas station for fuel. Everyone at the Gas Station must agree on one location to watch. All players here will see all players who were at the selected location.

I like that idea Book - I was going to have one location double the power of another for the next Night, but that might be too much. I think I'm fairly settled on these rules for now, unless someone sees a problem with them. So with that, my next game will be Dead of Winter Mafia.

[Rogan]

The Colony - You spend time helping survivors at the colony. Any player here will get the support of another survivor and will have two votes during the next Day Phase.
Grocery Store - You spend time searching for supplies. During the next Night phase, your vote for the Night action counts double.

School - You spend time searching the school for information. Everyone at the School must agree on one player to investigate. All players here will see whether the target is Town or Mafia. Only one of School/Library will be investigation.
Library - You spend time searching for books. Each Night, the power here will be random. It will include the abilities from the other locations, plus others.

I like the idea and the rules you have set up. Just some questions:

The colony and store effect all players who go there instead of selecting one, right?

Can the Library (randomly) be investigation? Will the players at the lib select a target by vote? Will there be one power per night or one power per night per player?

In general, how are ties resolved?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I like the idea and the rules you have set up. Just some questions:

The colony and store effect all players who go there instead of selecting one, right?

Can the Library (randomly) be investigation? Will the players at the lib select a target by vote? Will there be one power per night or one power per night per player?

In general, how are ties resolved?

Oh, wow, I think I made an edit for the ruleset that just never saved. Updated below. One important note is that I changed the Library to be the extra vote (with the logic that you're going to the library to study and have more knowledge for the next Day) and the Grocery Store is now the random ability.

Spoiler: Dead of Winter plan

Show

To fit with the zombie theme/scavenging to survive that is part of most zombie shows, everyone is a vanilla townie/mafia member.

The Discussion Phase (Day) goes like normal - vote to lynch, public reveal and all of that. During the Day, you individually choose which location you would like to go to in the next Phase: Colony, Police Station, Grocery Store, School, Library, Hospital, Gas Station. If you do not make a selection, you will go to the Colony by default.

The Scavenge Phase (Night) has players visiting other locations to scavenge for supplies/powers. Players at the same location during the Night Phase have a private chat that they can use only during that Night (so, the people who are together can talk). They also must agree on how to use the corresponding power.

For example: Snowblaze, Avatar Vecna, and Xihirli all go to the Hospital (Bane/Doc power). During the Night they can talk and must agree (by majority) on how to use the power (who gets healed).



The possible locations would be:
The Colony - You spend time helping survivors at the colony. Any player here will get the support of another survivor and will have two votes during the next Day Phase.
Police Station - You spend time searching the local police station for guns. Everyone at the Police station must agree on one player to kill or agree not to use the kill.
Grocery Store - You spend time searching for supplies. Each Night, the power here will be random. It will include the abilities from the other locations, plus others.
School - You spend time searching the school for information. Everyone at the School must agree on one player to investigate. All players here will see whether the target is Town or Mafia. Only one of School/Library will be investigation.
Library - You spend time searching for books. During the next Night phase, your vote for the Night action counts double.
Hospital - You spend time searching hospital for medical supplies. Everyone at the Hospital must agree on one player to protect during this Phase.
Gas Station - You spend time searching the gas station for fuel. Everyone at the Gas Station must agree on one location to watch. All players here will see all players who were at the selected location.

Yes, all players at the Colony/Library will get the double vote power for the corresponding section.



The Store (previously Library) will function like the other locations: the group decides how the single use of the power goes. So, I will randomly roll to see what the power is for that location (which could be a protection, investigation, killing, other things). All players there must agree on who to use the power on.

Haven't thought too much about ties - will likely be random in the case of a tie.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Did anyone else get an email about QuickTopic shutting down in a couple months? It looks like we'll need to find somewhere else to do private conversation.

[AvatarVecna]

Did anyone else get an email about QuickTopic shutting down in a couple months? It looks like we'll need to find somewhere else to do private conversation.

That's...gonna suck. Ah well.

[bladescape]

Yeah QT is going down on Dec 11th.

[Book Wombat]

For alternatives, Discord could work.

[JeenLeen]

AV, take me off the schedule for hosting a game. I have some ideas brewing, but between QT going down and work/computer difficulties, I should go off.

Hopefully I'll rejoin the Mafia community by the end of the year. But I'd like to play in several games with whatever-replaces-QT before I try hosting a game with a new interface.

[AvatarVecna]

Discord could work well.

AV, take me off the schedule for hosting a game. I have some ideas brewing, but between QT going down and work/computer difficulties, I should go off.

Hopefully I'll rejoin the Mafia community by the end of the year. But I'd like to play in several games with whatever-replaces-QT before I try hosting a game with a new interface.

As you wish.

[Batcathat]

I like Discord in general but how would that work with powers like the one I had in Afterlife, where I could get access to people's QTs? Is it possible to have "secret" members in a Discord channel?

[AvatarVecna]

I like Discord in general but how would that work with powers like the one I had in Afterlife, where I could get access to people's QTs? Is it possible to have "secret" members in a Discord channel?

I'm not sure, but it's also probably not a big issue because I'm unlikely to do that again now that people know the trick.

[gac3]

I'm not sure, but it's also probably not a big issue because I'm unlikely to do that again now that people know the trick.

But it also hinders QT sharing I'm general.

[AvatarVecna]

But it also hinders QT sharing I'm general.

It hinders people lurking in QTs they have access to. This is more of a problem if we want (say) a town network chat where we're not sure who all we can trust, or if we're wolves trying to just see who's saying what.

It would cut down on QT shenanigans, and honestly QT shenanigans have been rather unfun for people at times. Discord would make it a less...integral part of the game.