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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    I want to compile a list of all ways to deny an enemy their defenses, from simple AC bonuses to things like miss chances.
    I'll write down things I know, hopefully others will provide more, and at the end we'll have a lovely little table of ways to make sure that attack hits.

    DEX and Dodge bonus to AC

    Feint
    Have total concealment (e.g. invisibility, hidden)
    Get surprise round
    Win initiative
    Enemy is Grappled by ally
    Enemy is Balancing without 5 ranks in balance
    Enemy is Climbing without Combat climbing
    Enemy is Running without Run feat
    Enemy fails swim check
    Enemy is cowering
    Sneaky Shot Master Thrower trick
    Acrobatic Backstab skill trick
    Blurstrike weapon special ability
    Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)

    Armor, Shield,Natural Armor bonus

    Spot the Weak Point Skill trick
    Deft Strike feat (standard action, armor and natural armor only)
    Weak Spot Master Thrower trick
    Sunder (shield only)
    Disintegrate spell (armor and shield only, limitations)
    Wraithstrike spell
    Brilliant Energy weapon special ability (living opponent only, not Natural armor)
    Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)
    Deep Impact feat (psionic, melee only)
    Fell Shot feat (psionic, ranged only)

    Deflection bonus to AC

    Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)
    Bolts of Arcane Penetration (Dragon 330, p. 67)

    Size bonus to AC

    Enlarge Person spell (Humanoid only, Fort negates)

    Other AC bonuses (e.g. Sacred, Profane, Insight, etc.)

    Chaotic Mind feat (Insight bonuses from Psionic sources only)
    Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)

    Cover

    Improved Precise Shot (less than total)
    Sharp Shooting Peerless Archer ability (reduces if less than total)
    Bracers of Accuracy item (max 3/day)
    Bloodseeking weapon special ability (projectile weapons only, no undead, constructs, plants or oozes)
    Burrowing power (psionic, objects only)
    Freedom of Movement (water only)
    Freedom of Movement (psionic, water only)

    Concealment

    Improved Precise Shot feat
    True seeing
    True seeing (psionic)
    Touchsight power (psionic)
    Steadfast Percpetion power (psionic, glamers only)
    Blindsight racial ability
    Blind-fight feat (2 chances to overcome)
    Scout's Headband item (grants true seeing or see invisibility 1/day 1 min)
    Truelight Lantern item (true seeing effect 1/day 10 min)
    Sharp Shooting Peerless Archer ability (reduces by 10%)
    Pierce Magical Concealment feat (magic-sourced only)
    Bracers of Accuracy item (max 1/day, not total)
    Gust of Wind spell (Gas/Fog based only)
    Uncanny Accuracy feat (total concealment only, Ranger 11 to qualify pre-epic)
    Seeking weapon special ability

    Other miss chances

    Pierce Magical Concealment feat (magic-sourced only)
    Force effect (Incorporeal only)
    Ghost Touch weapon special ability (Incorporeal only)
    Lesser Truedeath weapon crystal (Incorporeal only)
    Serenwood weapon special material (Incorporeal only)
    Transdimensional Spell feat (dimension-based concealment only, spells only)
    Transdimensinoal Power feat (Psionic, dimension-based concealment only, spells only)

    Damage Reduction

    Force effects
    Energy Damage
    Shadow Striking weapon special ability (alignment and material based DR only)
    Transmuting (on round following successful hit)

    Hardness

    Adamantine weapon special material (Hardness 20 or under)
    Acid damage (RAW unclear, Dragon 314 says yes, FAQ from 2004 says yes, FAQ from 2008 says no)
    Sonic damage (RAW unclear, Dragon 314 says yes, FAQ from 2004 says yes, FAQ from 2008 says no)
    Force effects (RAW unclear, Dragon 314 says yes, FAQ from 2004 says yes, FAQ from 2008 says no)

    Energy Resistance/Immunity

    Waves of Cold spell (cold subtype creatures only)

    Spell/Power Resistance

    N/A

    Regeneration

    Trollbane poison
    Last edited by Jowgen; 2014-12-09 at 05:32 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Unless you'd rather stick to non-magical and/or character build-dependent solutions like feats, there are a few things I can think of to add:

    Deflection Bonus to AC
    Any spell of the Dispel Magic line, as most sources of deflection to AC are magical in nature

    Size Bonus to AC
    Polymorph target into something larger - not always a great choice for obvious reasons


    Cover
    Bracers of Accuracy (MIC 4,000gp) - uses charges/day to negate cover and/or concealment

    Concealment
    Bracers of Accuracy (MIC 4,000gp) - uses charges/day to negate cover and/or concealment
    Gust of Wind - to dismiss many fog-related sources of concealment
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Thanks for the contribution

    Added the Bracers of Accuracy and Gust of Wind.

    Dispel Magic wasn't added because it can conceivably be fit into every category, as magic can give you just about every type of bonus currently on the list.

    Currently debating whether you add polymorph or not. It can work, but it's just such an impractical solution
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Sundering, not the same as with Dispel Magic, but you may deny Armor/Shield bonus to AC, and other items.

    Acrobatic Backstab for DEX/Dodge?
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    chaotic mind negates insight bonuses that come from powers (to AC, skills and attacks)
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Maiming strike is a good way to reduce some of those few that have cha to ac. Thos does however assume you have sneak attack and hit the first time.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Touch attacks, like Wraith Strike. A similiar option would be Brilliant Energy Weapon. Flat Footed via the Blurstrike Weapon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Don't know if you'll want to count this, but utilizing touch attacks is an easy way to bypass a lot of contributing AC, depending on the enemy. Combining a surprise round or catching the enemy flat-footed with a touch attack is a feat-less, elegant way to potentially ignore a large portion of AC.
    Last edited by Denver; 2014-11-04 at 08:56 PM.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by UrashimaJamez View Post
    Sundering, not the same as with Dispel Magic, but you may deny Armor/Shield bonus to AC, and other items.

    Acrobatic Backstab for DEX/Dodge?
    Added Acrobatic Backstab and Sundering of Shields (can't sunder armor to my knowledge).

    chaotic mind negates insight bonuses that come from powers (to AC, skills and attacks)
    Added

    Maiming strike is a good way to reduce some of those few that have cha to ac. Thos does however assume you have sneak attack and hit the first time.
    This works in niche cases, but it's more or less the equivalent of reducing Dex to AC via Dex damage, so I don't think it quite fits on the list.

    Touch attacks, like Wraith Strike. A similiar option would be Brilliant Energy Weapon. Flat Footed via the Blurstrike Weapon.
    Added all three
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    You might want to make a note that invisibility covers the total concealment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Requires 11 levels in Ranger to qualify pre-epic, but:
    Uncanny Accuracy
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Size Bonus to AC
    Use Enlarge Person offensively. If you do it indoors with ordinary height ceilings or in other confined spaces, you'll also subject them to squeezing rules.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    You might want to make a note that invisibility covers the total concealment.
    Done.

    Requires 11 levels in Ranger to qualify pre-epic, but: Uncanny Accuracy
    Very interesting, added it

    Use Enlarge Person offensively. If you do it indoors with ordinary height ceilings or in other confined spaces, you'll also subject them to squeezing rules.
    I doubt the size bonus section is going to get many entries, so I'll add it in
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deox View Post
    Requires 11 levels in Ranger to qualify pre-epic, but:
    Uncanny Accuracy
    You have to be level 21 or higher or have a bonus feat from having more than 20 levels in a class to take the feat. Not because it's a qualification, but because you don't have any slots that are allowed to be Epic, AFAICT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    I'm not sure how exactly you'd categorize this one, but a Rod of Magical Precision (Complete Mage, 12,000gp) provides the benefit of the Precise Shot feat for spells and spell-like abilities (negating the penalty to attack is similar to negating AC)
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    I would recommend the scouts headband (3200gp MIC), to ignore certain magical forms of concealment. This comes from spells such as, but not limited to, blur and displacement.

    Edit: I think I should rephrase this: You need to be able to ignore the illusion line of spells that make it really hard to hit people, such as: Mirror image, discplacement, invisibility et cetera. True seeing does the trick for this and that can be bought via the scouts headband.
    Last edited by evangaline; 2014-11-06 at 09:13 AM.
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    I've got two spells that can work against AC.

    The first is a fairly basic level 2 spell, called curse of impending blades. It's just a -2 modifier to AC. What I find interesting about the spell, however, is that it's described as causing the person hit by the spell to involuntarily move towards attacks. This sounds like it might be a reduction of deflextion AC based on its fluff.

    The second spell is called chill touch, a level 4 necromancy spell. It's a touch attack (obviously), and deals 3d6 of dex damage (dexterity can't fall below one), effectively nuking their AC. This can easily cause it's victim to have a negative dex modifier.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    *pops in with psionic contributions*

    Armor, Shield,Natural Armor bonus
    Deep Impact: Psionic feat, convert any melee attack to touch attack.
    Fell Shot: Psionic feat, convert any ranged attack to touch attack.

    Concealment
    Steadfast Perception: (figments and glamers only - note that invisibility, blur and displacement are glamers.)
    Psionic True Seeing: works like the regular kind
    Touchsight: ignore all concealment and darkness.

    Cover:
    Burrowing Power: Ignore intervening barriers (and therefore total cover) with your powers.

    Other Cover:
    (Psionic) Freedom of Movement: Landbound melee attacks ignore cover bonuses (both improved and total) when attacking underwater foes. Underwater attackers do not take penalties to hit.

    Other Miss Chances:
    Force effects: ignore incorporeal miss chance
    Transdimensional Spell/Power: Ignore incorporeal miss chance

    Also, you should probably add DR and Hardness here as these defenses can prevent a lot of damage over time (this is one of the main hurdles vs. archery in 3.5.) Hardness in particular can be nasty to overcome, and while it is rare on creatures it does exist.

    Consider adding energy resistance as well; there are universal ways to bypass it e.g. Sanctified Spell and Searing Spell.
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    There's also the feat, Deft Strike from CAd and DM which works almost exactly like the Spot the Weak Point.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    You have to be level 21 or higher or have a bonus feat from having more than 20 levels in a class to take the feat. Not because it's a qualification, but because you don't have any slots that are allowed to be Epic, AFAICT.
    If you look at the Special section, it calls out characters with 11 levels of Ranger as being specifically able to ignore the requirements, though they only get the benefit it light or no armor. This would be specific over the general 21+ levels for epic feats.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by zergling.exe View Post
    If you look at the Special section, it calls out characters with 11 levels of Ranger as being specifically able to ignore the requirements, though they only get the benefit it light or no armor. This would be specific over the general 21+ levels for epic feats.
    Precisely. It's an odd case, but an interesting one and often overlooked.
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by zergling.exe View Post
    If you look at the Special section, it calls out characters with 11 levels of Ranger as being specifically able to ignore the requirements, though they only get the benefit it light or no armor. This would be specific over the general 21+ levels for epic feats.
    That's irrelevant, because their feat slots may not be used in this manner. The prerequisites are listed, and you are ignoring them, you're just not level 21 and you just don't have the bonus epic feats from 20 levels in ranger.

    It's also overlooked because it's a +1 enhancement. So even if you were to take it, it's a waste of a slot and potentially 11 class levels.
    Last edited by Snowbluff; 2014-11-06 at 01:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    That's irrelevant, because their feat slots may not be used in this manner. The prerequisites are listed, and you are ignoring them, you're just not level 21 and you just don't have the bonus epic feats from 20 levels in ranger.

    It's also overlooked because it's a +1 enhancement. So even if you were to take it, it's a waste of a slot and potentially 11 class levels.
    If they meant to require you to be epic they would have made it require 21 levels of Ranger, not just 11. Keep in mind, multiclassing was not a terribly well promoted thing before high level optimization came into play, and often people will still single class their entire career.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by zergling.exe View Post
    If they meant to require you to be epic they would have made it require 21 levels of Ranger, not just 11. Keep in mind, multiclassing was not a terribly well promoted thing before high level optimization came into play, and often people will still single class their entire career.
    If they meant for us to know that, they should have written that down. Mulitclass rules were a thing. They were never necessarily encouraged, but became the meta regardless of what they thought. There are plenty of feats in the list whose prerequisites can be met well before level 11.

    Oh, and unsupported intent isn't evidence. I can look at the same material and say that they never intended for it to be taken pre-epic, but that wouldn't change the facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    If they meant for us to know that, they should have written that down. Mulitclass rules were a thing. They were never necessarily encouraged, but became the meta regardless of what they thought. There are plenty of feats in the list whose prerequisites can be met well before level 11.

    Oh, and unsupported intent isn't evidence. I can look at the same material and say that they never intended for it to be taken pre-epic, but that wouldn't change the facts.
    I suppose our disagreement stems from what the [Epic] category entails. To you it would appear to be a feat slot obtained at epic levels, but to me it means a bunch of feats with the requirement of Level 21. This would make the epic portion be a requirement that is ignored, as a level 11 ranger is ignoring all the requirements of the feat. I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree. No?

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    I don't consider it a requirement per se (it specifies the prerequisites anyway); taking an epic feat with a regular slot is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. It being level 21 is a coincidence from a mechanical standpoint.

    I also think you just shouldn't do it. Buy a seeking bow. You can afford one by level 11. Everything I have to say on the matter is really pointless whether I am right or wrong.
    Last edited by Snowbluff; 2014-11-06 at 07:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    I don't consider it a requirement per se (it specifies the prerequisites anyway); taking an epic feat with a regular slot is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. It being level 21 is a coincidence from a mechanical standpoint.
    But that is exactly what a player can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by d20srd
    Epic Feats
    Every character gains one feat (which may be an epic or nonepic feat at the player’s choice) at every level divisible by three. These feats are in addition to any bonus feats granted in the class descriptions.
    One may simply now choose from a larger list at 21st and every 3 levels thereafter. You may be thinking about the bonus epic feats according to class description which explicitly state they must be chosen from the list of bonus epic feats of that class.



    Uncanny Accuracy's special condition explicitly allows you to ignore any prerequisites.
    Quote Originally Posted by d20srd
    Special
    A character with at least 11 levels of ranger can qualify for this feat even if he or she does not have the prerequisites for it, but can only use it when wearing light or no armor.
    Not seeing the problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    I also think you just shouldn't do it. Buy a seeking bow. You can afford one by level 11. Everything I have to say on the matter is really pointless whether I am right or wrong.
    Irrelevant. OP was looking for all ways.
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    Thanks for the contribution

    Added the Bracers of Accuracy and Gust of Wind.

    Dispel Magic wasn't added because it can conceivably be fit into every category, as magic can give you just about every type of bonus currently on the list.

    Currently debating whether you add polymorph or not. It can work, but it's just such an impractical solution
    I recommend the "Bag of Holding" over the head to eliminate almost all physical defenses.

    Tie it up and wait a few minutes. Enemies which breathe will gain so many negatives, that they will die as soon as you sit on the bag!
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    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Prerequisite is a game defined term. You get to ignore what is listed as the feat's "prerequisites." You're asking us to use an ability that tell you to ignore a spell to ignore an Ex ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deox View Post

    Irrelevant. OP was looking for all ways.
    We should add stripping people of their armor, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Jowgen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses

    Added some contributions (amended Uncanny Accuracy as a "may or may not"), some things I remembered, and several new categories of defences following Psyren's suggestion.

    I'd like to thank all participants at this point
    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Ugh. For the record, I hate you. I hate you very much.
    The Voidstone Arsenal

    The Redeemery

    Feat-buying resource

    Magical Plants and Where to Find Them

    Floating Disk Utility

    Taking 10 resource

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