Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

[mjasghar]

He doesn’t seem to be in obvious pain in the panels just before the clasp powers down

[hamishspence]

I figured that, with Vamp Durkon dead, the "protection from dominating effects" function of Protection from Evil, was no longer necessary - hence the amulet simply shut down with nothing to keep activating it.

He doesn’t seem to be in obvious pain in the panels just before the clasp powers down

as to "pained expression" (little curves next to each eye) - it disappears momentarily here, when he's yelling at Durkon.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1130.html

then reappears.

They do the same in the next strip - disappear and reappear.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1131.html

So just because he doesn't have those curves, doesn't mean he's no longer in pain.

The little curves may not represent pain in this case at all - but effort.

[CriticalFailure]

Given that this is the last book, I don't see how Belkar could be the main focus to the extent Durkon was in the last one simply because everyone else's arcs need to be resolved as well. Durkon probably had most of his stuff dealt with in the previous book but he still has the mission from Thor, pretty much anything that happens with Minrah's character will happen in this book, Roy still has a decent amount to deal with, V's arc seems pretty far from resolved, and although they aren't protagonists the MiTD still has further to go in his defection to the good guys and Redcloak has a lot of unresolved stuff in his arc as well.

[DapperWarlock]

Given that this is the last book, I don't see how Belkar could be the main focus to the extent Durkon was in the last one simply because everyone else's arcs need to be resolved as well. Durkon probably had most of his stuff dealt with in the previous book but he still has the mission from Thor, pretty much anything that happens with Minrah's character will happen in this book, Roy still has a decent amount to deal with, V's arc seems pretty far from resolved, and although they aren't protagonists the MiTD still has further to go in his defection to the good guys and Redcloak has a lot of unresolved stuff in his arc as well.

Being the main focus of the book doesn't really preclude anyone else getting substantial arc development. Both Roy and Belkar had a significant arc through the last book, and Haley had a nice arc wrap-up in the beginning. Heck, while Book 5 is mainly focused on Elan, pretty much everyone got a hefty amount of development through that story.

So while all those arcs WILL be wrapped up, Belkar's will probably be the emotional throughline that the story focuses on up until his death. (And maybe beyond? We could get a glimpse of his afterlife judgement--unless he gets unmade by the Snarl, which is how I've been guessing it'll go for a few years now.)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Being the main focus of the book doesn't really preclude anyone else getting substantial arc development. Both Roy and Belkar had a significant arc through the last book, and Haley had a nice arc wrap-up in the beginning. Heck, while Book 5 is mainly focused on Elan, pretty much everyone got a hefty amount of development through that story.

So while all those arcs WILL be wrapped up, Belkar's will probably be the emotional throughline that the story focuses on up until his death. (And maybe beyond? We could get a glimpse of his afterlife judgement--unless he gets unmade by the Snarl, which is how I've been guessing it'll go for a few years now.)

I definitely agree with this, or at least that it's a strong contender for what happens. In addition, I think that if Book 7 winds up going long, there will be plenty of room for significant character development and the wrapping up of all the various arcs.

[Bedinsis]

I haven't read this thread, so this might have already been suggested, but: The Monster in the Darkness.

He is already well posed to become an ally to the Order, since his time with Oh-Chul made him closer to him.

Since he is in the darkness, he technically has not had any appearance.

If this is true that would mean that the Monster in the Darkness actually HAS had an out-of-darkness appearance already, only we never realized it was him.

If this turns out to be true I imagine several readers will cry foul.

[factotum]

I haven't read this thread, so this might have already been suggested, but: The Monster in the Darkness.

Um...the main criterion we have here is that whoever or whatever this being is, he's only ever appeared on 1 page in the entire OotS saga so far. MitD appeared for the *second* time back in strip #37 and has been in a lot more since, so how does he qualify?

[Ron Miel]

... so how does he qualify?

It's been suggested by a few people in the thread. The logic is that he hasn't "appeared" since he is hidden in the shadows. But in one panel you can see him shaking hands with O-Chul which counts as a single "appearance."

Obvious nonsense, of course. But that's what some people say.

[Laigrek]

The logic is that he hasn't "appeared" since he is hidden in the shadows. But in one panel you can see him shaking hands with O-Chul which counts as a single "appearance."

There's also the shot of the Go board, which is supposed to be what MitD looks like. I guess that you could count that as an on-screen "appearance" if you wanted to be "clever" about the solution here.

MitD has a larger problem, though: He's too obvious! The whole conceit here from Rich's quote seems to be that it's a real stumper of a question. But MitD is the most obvious possible choice for a new ally to the order.

That's why the only possible answer is Belkar's Shoulder Angel — a character so out of the blue that he's not even listed on the Appearances thread.

[halfeye]

I haven't read this thread, so this might have already been suggested, but: The Monster in the Darkness.

He is already well posed to become an ally to the Order, since his time with Oh-Chul made him closer to him.

Since he is in the darkness, he technically has not had any appearance.

If this is true that would mean that the Monster in the Darkness actually HAS had an out-of-darkness appearance already, only we never realized it was him.

If this turns out to be true I imagine several readers will cry foul.

I have also suggested the MitD as the solution to this question, and thinking about it, he has appeared; in the circus scene, we didn't see him but he appeared to the circus audience.

MitD has a larger problem, though: He's too obvious! The whole conceit here from Rich's quote seems to be that it's a real stumper of a question. But MitD is the most obvious possible choice for a new ally to the order.

He's so obviously the best candidate that he can't be the right candidate? That seems logically ridiculous to me.

[Laigrek]

He's so obviously the best candidate that he can't be the right candidate? That seems logically ridiculous to me.

That's kind of a reductive way to put it, but yeah, basically. Of course MitD is going to be an ally of the order. Nothing about that is surprising, but Rich's hint is framed as though it is going to be surprising. It would just be very anticlimactic if the guy who we all knew was gonna help the Order ends up being the answer to "what surprise character will help the Order".

[Bedinsis]

Um...the main criterion we have here is that whoever or whatever this being is, he's only ever appeared on 1 page in the entire OotS saga so far. MitD appeared for the *second* time back in strip #37 and has been in a lot more since, so how does he qualify?

Well if you look closer at the very post you are quoting you'll notice my explanation two sentences after the one you quoted.

Since he is in the darkness, he technically has not had any appearance.

My current guess is someone in Julia's surrounding who finds out what Roy is up to through Julia and decides to intervene.

[Dire_Flumph]

My current guess is someone in Julia's surrounding who finds out what Roy is up to through Julia and decides to intervene.

I think that just leaves the Blond-haired girl in #257. Julia's other friend is on 2 pages, and while Larry Gardner and Warthog count (edit: Warthog is on 2 pages, so no), they're both parody characters, so it's harder to see them being pulled back into the story in a major way.

Not a bad guess, especially given Julia's re-emergence in the story, I just don't see how a student wizard is going to be much help without some very specific skills or knowledge the Order needs.

[DapperWarlock]

It's been suggested by a few people in the thread. The logic is that he hasn't "appeared" since he is hidden in the shadows. But in one panel you can see him shaking hands with O-Chul which counts as a single "appearance."

Obvious nonsense, of course. But that's what some people say.

Even that explanation doesn't hold water--I'm assuming the panel being referred to is from #887, but they're not shaking hands in that panel. They're holding teacups.

I glanced through DStP again just to make sure I wasn't forgetting something there, but no. Far as I can tell this handshake didn't actually ever happen.

[halfeye]

Even that explanation doesn't hold water--I'm assuming the panel being referred to is from #887, but they're not shaking hands in that panel. They're holding teacups.

I glanced through DStP again just to make sure I wasn't forgetting something there, but no. Far as I can tell this handshake didn't actually ever happen.

The Monster in the Dark appears to the circus audience in the circus scene in Start of Darkness. They react very strongly to him. There is just no way that doesn't count as an appearance. We, the audience of the comic don't see him, but we see the circus audience and they clearly do see him.

[Schroeswald]

The Monster in the Dark appears to the circus audience in the circus scene in Start of Darkness. They react very strongly to him. There is just no way that doesn't count as an appearance. We, the audience of the comic don't see him, but we see the circus audience and they clearly do see him.

If we don’t count him in the darkness as us seeing him then why would we count other people seeing him as an appearance? He doesn’t appear in the comic if he’s off-Panel.

[DapperWarlock]

The Monster in the Dark appears to the circus audience in the circus scene in Start of Darkness. They react very strongly to him. There is just no way that doesn't count as an appearance. We, the audience of the comic don't see him, but we see the circus audience and they clearly do see him.

Yeah, no, that definitely doesn't count. Sorry. He didn't appear on-panel, it's not an appearance. That's the exact definition of an appearance.

If that DOES count as an appearance, how does him being on-panel but just being in shadow NOT count as an appearance? It requires a ridiculous degree of hair-splitting.

[The MunchKING]

My joke answer is: Pirate Haley and Ninja Haley come in from alternate universes. After messing with the OotS, they end up fighting each other. One of them becomes the powerful ally mentioned by the giant, the other becomes an enemy (or dies in the fight).

What I'd LIKE to see (but know we won't) is the FF6 crew coming back with full power of video game protagonists with them.

[halfeye]

Yeah, no, that definitely doesn't count. Sorry. He didn't appear on-panel, it's not an appearance. That's the exact definition of an appearance.

Actors often have adverts for themselves "Now appearing in such and such at the so and so theatre", just because you or I didn't go, it doesn't mean they didn't appear.

If that DOES count as an appearance, how does him being on-panel but just being in shadow NOT count as an appearance? It requires a ridiculous degree of hair-splitting.

Ridiculous degrees of hairsplitting are what this forum excels at, see the class and level geekery thread in particular.

[Schroeswald]

Actors often have adverts for themselves "Now appearing in such and such at the so and so theatre", just because you or I didn't go, it doesn't mean they didn't appear.

But the theatre is the panels that we see, if they aren't in the panels then they didn't appear, they were busy getting drunk in the bar or whatever.

Ridiculous degrees of hairsplitting are what this forum excels at, see the class and level geekery thread in particular.

That hairsplitting is at least mostly consistent, this is basically coming up for an excuse for am idea people have came up with but doesn't really work.

[Dausuul]

That hairsplitting is at least mostly consistent, this is basically coming up for an excuse for am idea people have came up with but doesn't really work.

I wouldn't call it "hairsplitting," I'd call it "twisting logic into a pretzel in order to justify a conclusion which makes no sense at all." And this is coming from the guy who believes, based on a couple of vague could-mean-anything hints and the missing half of a never-finished sentence, that it's Mia Starshine and Haley is part celestial.

I mean, sure, you can define "appearance" to allow for "was present in the scene even though we, the viewers, did not see them." But in that case, every panel where MitD is present must be counted as an "appearance." If you mean, "a character in the comic saw them," then MitD has at least two appearances I can think of--in addition to the circus, there was the scene where Xykon looked inside its box and said "Whoa, you are one ugly sumb*****, aren't you?" There are probably more, that's just the one that comes to mind offhand.

Can anybody come up with a definition of "appearance" which, consistently applied, yields exactly one (1) appearance for MitD?

[D.One]

I wouldn't call it "hairsplitting," I'd call it "twisting logic into a pretzel in order to justify a conclusion which makes no sense at all." And this is coming from the guy who believes, based on a couple of vague could-mean-anything hints and the missing half of a never-finished sentence, that it's Mia Starshine and Haley is part celestial.

I mean, sure, you can define "appearance" to allow for "was present in the scene even though we, the viewers, did not see them." But in that case, every panel where MitD is present must be counted as an "appearance." If you mean, "a character in the comic saw them," then MitD has at least two appearances I can think of--in addition to the circus, there was the scene where Xykon looked inside its box and said "Whoa, you are one ugly sumb*****, aren't you?" There are probably more, that's just the one that comes to mind offhand.

Can anybody come up with a definition of "appearance" which, consistently applied, yields exactly one (1) appearance for MitD?

Well, besides changes in the umbrella, MitD's appearance (eyes in the darkness) hasn't really changed since debut, so you can say he's had only 1 appearance.

[Schroeswald]

Well, besides changes in the umbrella, MitD's appearance (eyes in the darkness) hasn't really changed since debut, so you can say he's had only 1 appearance.

Besides changes in his clothing Belkar hasn’t really changed since his debut, so really he’s only had one appearance and thus he is the one Rich is discussing.

[Aquillion]

Actually, though, after looking over the number of character appearances thread and its section for named characters with only one appearance, my bet is on one of the gods of the Eastern Pantheon, which appeared only on this page. There's plenty of hints that the Snarl isn't what it appears, and that page is in "storytime" style, so it could be inaccurate in a way that allows one of them to have survived.

Most of the other one-appearance characters with names are gags, but the Eastern Pantheon has a direct connection to the upcoming plot and an entirely plausible way in which one of them could have survived and could appear in the next arc.

Zeus, who was alive in that flashback even if the text says he died shortly afterwards, would be the obvious choice, but since the flashback is a retelling-of-a-retelling it could be any of them.

[D.One]

Besides changes in his clothing Belkar hasn’t really changed since his debut, so really he’s only had one appearance and thus he is the one Rich is discussing.

Not really. In these two strips, his body appearance changes drastically...

[DapperWarlock]

Actually, though, after looking over the number of character appearances thread and its section for named characters with only one appearance, my bet is on one of the gods of the Eastern Pantheon, which appeared only on this page. There's plenty of hints that the Snarl isn't what it appears, and that page is in "storytime" style, so it could be inaccurate in a way that allows one of them to have survived.

A lot of people have been suggesting this, and there's a couple reasons it just doesn't sit right with me.

From a logistics standpoint, Thor's explanation of the gods' food pyramid means that if one of them had survived, they would have starved long before this world was made. There have been thousands upon thousands of worlds in between the first and current ones, where no one has been worshiping them. It'd be pretty weird for Rich to invent a reason for one of them to have been hibernating or something so they would have survived that long.

Second, it would completely cancel out Durkon's need to negotiate with Redcloak. If the green quiddity is back, and the hint is that they would be an important ally, then there's no reason they couldn't use that god to spot-weld the rifts. The reason Durkon needs to negotiate with Redcloak is that the other gods can't communicate with the Dark One, after all, so if a god suddenly showed up with a fourth quiddity who they COULD communicate with, problem solved. Sure, you could argue their power would be diminished by having literally no followers, but that would still require a ton of twisting in logic to explain why they haven't outright starved.

Plus, the hint is that they'll be an important ally for the first HALF of the next book. Something tells me a long-lost god of a dead pantheon would have a vested interest in sticking with the plot further than that. Unless the first half of this book is the final day or two of that god's life. Again, pretty weird for them to have survived this long only to die halfway through the book. I just don't see it working.

[Sian]

How many times have we actually seen the Snarl instead of only having it discussed or inferred?

[DapperWarlock]

How many times have we actually seen the Snarl instead of only having it discussed or inferred?

That kind of ties in with a point I didn't bother bringing up in my last post--do the crayon drawings technically count? Rich did hint in the bonus pdf commentary to Paladin Blues that they might not be entirely diegetic (a word I use because I couldn't think of a more well-known, equally precise one), so I'm torn on whether to even count them. Much like how, when I wrote my enormous self-indulgent essay of predictions a couple months back, I didn't bother hinting at characters who only appeared as comedic cutaways, like the drunk wizards who came up with the Bag of Tricks.

So, if we don't count the crayon drawings, the Snarl has only appeared in one page. An interesting idea, to be sure.

If they do count, then it's been about four or five pages.

[Bedinsis]

Can anybody come up with a definition of "appearance" which, consistently applied, yields exactly one (1) appearance for MitD?

I actually gave an explanation that could potentially yield one (1) appearance, yet people did not pay any attention to that part:

If this is true that would mean that the Monster in the Darkness actually HAS had an out-of-darkness appearance already, only we never realized it was him.

i.e. all the instances of MitD shaking hands or interacting in ways that indicates a form under the umbrella doesn't count; and some random instance of an appearance with a monster in it we never realized was MitD is his one true appearance.

Then again, when the giant offers vague insight into the future the answer is seldom one that makes one go "that's a cheat", which I could respect someone thinking if my prediction was true. "Appearance" is probably meant via the straight-forward interpretation.

[Aquillion]

A lot of people have been suggesting this, and there's a couple reasons it just doesn't sit right with me.

From a logistics standpoint, Thor's explanation of the gods' food pyramid means that if one of them had survived, they would have starved long before this world was made. There have been thousands upon thousands of worlds in between the first and current ones, where no one has been worshiping them. It'd be pretty weird for Rich to invent a reason for one of them to have been hibernating or something so they would have survived that long.

This is a definite concern, but there seems to be a world inside the Snarl. Depending on when it formed they could have been getting worship from there.

It's also possible that they were changed / altered / diminished by the Snarl in some way instead of being killed, which could constrain them and answer some of your other issues as well.