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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Well, Factotum//Psion//Warblade is kind of an obvious one for me. Similar to what a lot of other people are saying, but Psion isn't getting enough love compared to Wizard or Archivist or Artificer or StP Erudite. (Come on people, it's not about breaking the game ... it's about playing a fun class! ... and maybe occasionally breaking the action economy even more than the Factotum already does. )

    Then if I want to make a party, the obvious choice seems to be a WIS-focused character and a CHA-focused character. I actually really like the Crusader//Dragon Shaman//Bard + PrCs build that someone else proposed.

    For the WIS-fellow ... hmmm. At the moment, I think I'm feeling Scout/Swordsage//Ranger//Chaos Incarnate archer (with Swift Hunter).
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Hence my dilemma. You can have triple casting, but without a way to get more actions so that you can actually use the spells/powers, you might as well not have them.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonOfUndeath View Post
    You wouldn't have enough actions to use it. at low levels you would never run out of slots but at higher levels you get that anyway. Without something to break the action economy massively it won't be much more powerful
    I think there are a few feats that let you spend spells to fuel certain abilities, can't remember off the top of my head.

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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    I'm so far out of my league here it's not even funny.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Paladin/Sorcerer/Shadowcaster sprinkled with PrC cheese as desired?

    if we're allowing Theurgic classes... noctumancer is going to be interesting.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Its kinda sad that it took 28 posts before anyone bothered mentioning meldshapers. Have a cookie for being the first to awesome.
    God knows I love animals in magic soul armour with psychic martial arts powers.

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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    druid/master of many forms//cleric/ardiant server of pelor//monk
    will destroy everything with healing power!!!
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Feat rogue//fighter//generic warrior (The UA class, not the PrC)

    ..What?
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Feat rogue//fighter//generic warrior (The UA class, not the PrC)

    ..What?
    What is that, like 50 feats at level 20?
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Feat rogue//fighter//generic warrior (The UA class, not the PrC)

    ..What?
    No, no, no. This is how you pump feats.

    Wild Elf Feat Rogue 2/ Fighter 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Generic Warrior 2/ Generic Expert 2/ Martial Wizard 1/ Psion 1/ Generic Spellcaster 1/ Cloistered Cleric 1 (with all 3 domains swapped for Devotion feats)/ Monk 2/ Bear Totem Barbarian 3/ Soulknife 1. Make sure you do the Dark Chaos Shuffle.

    This takes one side of the triple gestalt and nets you 27 bonus feats- six less than yours, but only eating up one side. You could spread this out over all three sides, take more levels in Generic Warrior, Feat Rogue, and Fighter, and get a lot more, but I'm not going to do the math for that.

    Or, you could make the other two sides Factotum 20 and Druid 10/ Planar Shepherd 10. Make a gish of doom or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strife Warzeal View Post
    What is that, like 50 feats at level 20?
    39, assuming no racial bonus feats; 40 if human or something, 43 using Dark Chaos Shuffle.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2011-04-19 at 02:10 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    *snip*
    You forgot Vow of Poverty.

    Also, Wild Elf? Not Human or Strongheart Halfling?
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2011-04-19 at 03:17 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    You could do that, I suppose. It wouldn't be too bad, you'd still be essentially a Druid 10/ Planar Shepherd 10//Factotum 20.

    Yes, Wild Elf. I mentioned Dark Chaos Shuffle. So... much... cheese.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2011-04-19 at 03:20 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    So this post reminds me of an idea I had a while back. Basically it takes E6 (epic at level 6) but instead of becoming epic at that point, you gain a gestalt and start filling in your second set of levels. When you reach the end of that, you'd add in a third set of gestalt levels.

    So assuming G6, a level 6 character would stop advancing his primary class. He'd become

    Fighter 6 // Wizard 1.

    When the second slot filled up he might go

    Fighter 6 // Wizard 6 // Rogue 1.

    Etc.

    I think this is more interesting than starting with three classes right out of the gate. But it's my idea so I'm biased. What I like about it is that it still progresses whatever the new class abilities are, but the character doesn't grow much beyond that. BAB will never pass 6. But there's still more room for advancement than E6's plain old gain a feat level ups.

    The only thing I don't like is that the farther you go with it, the more alike characters will be. Even with 3 classes (which would be analogous to level 18) I don't see a lot of variety in characters. I'd expect most people to take a progression with full casting, another progression with BAB and HP. The third would probably be something for skill points or a different caster. Unless the group planned around each other, I'd expect a ton of overlap here.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    It would probably work better if you could fill those new gestalt slots with PrC abilities. Of course, you'd have to vet each PrC to make sure it isn't bringing in abilities too strong for E6's, but there are plenty that don't, and each iteration could allow stronger classes.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Beguiler//Wizard/Rainbow Servant/stuff//Factotum.

    You have all the options. All of them.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Actually, I'm gonna be playing a variant of this.

    It's normal Gestalt Rules for the first too slots, and then the third slot is optional too take, but if you grab it you can only assign lvl adjustment and Racial Hit Dice too it. The idea was the DM wanted a party of none-standard races, with out having to penalize the none standard races.


    Now, for a normal triple Gestalt,

    Barbarian, Fighter, Scout. Not the most powerful by a long shot, but fun long as no one's going for the uber broken builds.
    "I Burn!"

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    You might just want to come up with a homebrew generic super class instead. It'd probably be a lot simpler then trying to combine and balance 3 different classes.

    The Iconoclast

    Full BAB, d10 hit die, full weapons and armor proficiency, all strong Saves, 6 Skill points per level, all Skills are class Skills.

    The basis of this class is "Pick what's fun, and don't be a jerk about it, because other players want to have fun too."

    Over 20 level, you get 23 character points. 4 at first level, and 1 additional point every level thereafter. Each time you gain a level you may reallocate your character points and select new abilities. But you may not put more then 10 points into any one ability, and your DM may ban anything he thinks would be too disruptive to the group. (Polymorph, breaking the action economy, etc). You may spend your character points on any of the following:

    1 point:
    • 1d6 Sneak Attack or Skirmish
    • Bonus Feat that you otherwise qualify for
    • Any spell, that you may spontaneously cast 3 times per day.
    • Any psionic power from any list, plus 5 power points.
    • Any soulmeld plus 1 point of essentia.
    • Any maneuver or stance.
    • +10 to all base movement speeds.

    You may only select spells/powers/etc of a level that a normal class of that level could take. Thus an Iconoclast 5 could only select 3rd level spells, power, etc. Your caster/whatever level is equal to your character level, and your primary caster stat is whatever you want.

    For all other abilities, your DM may assign a point value. 2 points for Evasion, 3 for a chakra bind, 4 for a vestige, or whatever you and your DM thinks is fair. Every ability is on the table, following the same basic guideline that you can't get an ability that a normal class or PrC of that ECL couldn't take, you can always designate your own primary attribute (so you can have Divine Grace based on Int or Wis or Con or whatever), and that your DM can take a ban hammer to anything that unbalances the group (which he should only do if it's seriously broken, given how powerful the Iconoclast will be). On any weird rules point, like essentia capacity or alignment restrictions, use the same rule of thumb of whatever would be reasonable for a class of that level who specialized in that ability.

    Or you could just play GURPS. But that might involve having to learn new rules.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    This is too good to let die yet! Quickened Extended Maximized Raise Thread!!! Plus corpsecrafter feats.

    Evolutionist 20//Factotum 20//Spontaneous Druid 20

    Just because I love Draken's Base class so much.
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Marshal 1/Sorcerer 1/Human Paragon 3/Divine Oracle 10/Abjurant Champion 5//
    Paladin 2/Sha'ir 8/Rainbow Servant 10//
    Monk 1/Favored Soul 18/Pious Templar 1

    All Charisma, all the time. BAB +16, 9/9/9 spellcasting, near-perfect saves with Divine Grace, Prescient Sense, and Mettle. Ability to cast any Wizard spell or any Cleric spell with sufficient advance notice. Flight as Ex.

    On reflection, probably not nearly as cool as a Wizard//Archivist//Factotum, though I like to think the added flexibility and longevity makes up for losing the ability to nova spectacularly.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Marshal 1/Sorcerer 1/Human Paragon 3/Divine Oracle 10/Abjurant Champion 5//
    Paladin 2/Sha'ir 8/Rainbow Servant 10//
    Monk 1/Favored Soul 18/Pious Templar 1

    All Charisma, all the time. BAB +16, 9/9/9 spellcasting, near-perfect saves with Divine Grace, Prescient Sense, and Mettle. Ability to cast any Wizard spell or any Cleric spell with sufficient advance notice. Flight as Ex.

    On reflection, probably not nearly as cool as a Wizard//Archivist//Factotum, though I like to think the added flexibility and longevity makes up for losing the ability to nova spectacularly.
    I think that build is actually less flexible and has more nova capabilities due to having more spell slots. Where do you get Mettle from though?
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    Hence my dilemma. You can have triple casting, but without a way to get more actions so that you can actually use the spells/powers, you might as well not have them.
    Quicken spell and some metamagic reducer would be there. With five or six casting classes at 9s, I can essentially always have the absolute perfect spells available. Belt of Battle is also a gimmie.

    It's quite rare that I can't solve a problem with two or three perfect spells.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I think that build is actually less flexible and has more nova capabilities due to having more spell slots. Where do you get Mettle from though?
    Pious Templar grants Mettle at level 1.
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I think that build is actually less flexible and has more nova capabilities due to having more spell slots.
    Well, the idea is that the Sorcerer and Favored Soul have all the spells you use frequently. The Sha'ir/Rainbow Servant exists to provide any Wizard spell in 1d6 + spell level minutes and any Cleric spell in 1d6 + spell level hours, without relying on item drops. The Marshal dip is intended to ensure that the Sha'ir always makes his Diplomacy checks; I had originally included a Warlock dip for another +6, but figured that was overkill and used Pious Templar for Mettle instead.

    Thinking about it, I should have replaced Sorcerer with Warmage and gone Rainbow Warsnake on that side, kept Sha'ir for Wizard/Sorcerer spells, and piled all of my non-spellcasting classes on the third side and filled it out with Dragonfire Adept.
    Last edited by Viktyr Gehrig; 2011-04-27 at 07:01 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Evolutionist 20//Factotum 20//Spontaneous Druid 20

    Just because I love Draken's Base class so much.
    Wow. I'm totally going to have to start tinkering with that now.

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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    I think I just had a nergasm...

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedAngel View Post
    I currently have Fast Healing 20, +5 to Damage and Hit that stacks with everything, energy resistance to the important ones, DR 5/- and DR 10/Magic and +5 to saves, Spell Resistance 30, Immunity to all poisons and diseases, and Improved Evasion. If I had half a brain when assigning ability scores my AC is around 25, and my weapon is a +5 Wounding Collision Bastard Sword.

    If I wake up in a dungeon naked, I can be like this in two rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Feat rogue//fighter//generic warrior (The UA class, not the PrC)

    ..What?
    Same class feature accures at the rate of the faster class, unfortunately. You need a different bonus feat class feature to stack them...
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Bard//Dread Necromancer//Cleric.

    I can summon an undead hoard, beef it and myself up to be utter monsters and use bardic music and preform dance to do Thriller at my enemy's till they die!
    "I Burn!"

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    No one ever Gestalts with Fighter levels. Thats actually a little surprising since this is a Triple Gestalt, so you have less to lose.

    8 Levels of Factotum are pretty nifty though.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Let's see I'd want decent arcane casting, plus good stats like BAB, AC, HP and damage might be nice. Plus ways to get out of grappling, paralysis, disease, petrification, etc.... Skill-monkeying might be nice but there are plenty of ways around that in most campaigns. Defense is hard without any armor, and most of the fix-its are divine yet low level. I'd have to go dex and range with a way to use divine scrolls.

    So... arcane caster / archer / something with UMD. So... sorcerer / fighter / rogue . Sorc for charisma synergy. Though any similar combo could do. Maybe x/x/bard but as long as I can greater invis myself and have full BAB I might as well grab sneak attack damage.
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Wight8/Evolved Undead12
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    StPErudite1/Wizard1/Cleric1/Rogue14/Epichero3
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    Unarmed Swordsage20

    Take Epic magic: Erudite, Wizard and Cleric using Swordsage Maneuvers to qualify for Epic magic

    I have Arcane, Divine, Psionic and Maneuvers at 9, A bucketload of SLAs, Sneak Attack, Level drain, Natural Weapons at a high damage output and enough Fast Healing to fight till the cows come home.
    Replace Wight and undead levels for Factotum and be a regular Swordsage if you need more actions rather than being the Energizer Bunny on Steroids
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    Default Re: "Triple" Gestalt

    Looks like someone figured out how they came up with Exalted.

    Quote Originally Posted by valadil View Post
    So this post reminds me of an idea I had a while back. Basically it takes E6 (epic at level 6) but instead of becoming epic at that point, you gain a gestalt and start filling in your second set of levels. When you reach the end of that, you'd add in a third set of gestalt levels.

    So assuming G6, a level 6 character would stop advancing his primary class. He'd become

    Fighter 6 // Wizard 1.

    When the second slot filled up he might go

    Fighter 6 // Wizard 6 // Rogue 1.

    Etc.

    I think this is more interesting than starting with three classes right out of the gate. But it's my idea so I'm biased. What I like about it is that it still progresses whatever the new class abilities are, but the character doesn't grow much beyond that. BAB will never pass 6. But there's still more room for advancement than E6's plain old gain a feat level ups.

    The only thing I don't like is that the farther you go with it, the more alike characters will be. Even with 3 classes (which would be analogous to level 18) I don't see a lot of variety in characters. I'd expect most people to take a progression with full casting, another progression with BAB and HP. The third would probably be something for skill points or a different caster. Unless the group planned around each other, I'd expect a ton of overlap here.
    I'm going to second the idea of using PrC classes as a way to avoid the sameyness issue.

    Consider the (not terribly optimal, but good for our purposes example) Fighter 6//Wizard 6//Spellsword 6.

    Spellsword levels give him some nifty abilities to synergize his first two progressions as well as a little boost to caster level (I think Spellsword 6 nets +3 caster level, and we're not progressing spell slots past 6 just caster level and level dependent variables) and some bonus feats.

    A much better way to avoid the whole sameyness.
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