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Thread: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
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2009-02-10, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
One of my characters in a campaign was recently transformed into a vampire (woot!) and as a result has gained many of the abilities of the vampire template presented in MM1. Among those is, of course, the dreaded energy drain slam attack. Now, there are two paragraphs in the vampire entry that are causing some confusion:
Originally Posted by srd
Originally Posted by srd
Originally Posted by srd
Which one is technically correct?Last edited by TaintedLight; 2009-02-10 at 01:19 AM.
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2009-02-10, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
Originally Posted by srd
That said, it's really just a -1 to everything and if the target wins the fight or flees he might remove the negative level later. So it isn't the end of the world for the target.Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-02-10 at 01:31 AM.
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2009-02-10, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
I have a vague memory that Vampire Energy Drain granted a save in 3.0 Edition. Maybe he's thinking of that?
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2009-02-10, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-02-10, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
Energy drain attacks only grant saves to avoid permanently losing levels (although some few types of energy drain require no such save, and never cause permanent loss of levels). A vampire's energy drain works this way: you gain the negative levels automatically, but get to make saves later on to avoid losing levels permanently. This is what makes vampires and other energy-draining creatures so incredibly dangerous to fight.
Your DM blew it when he made someone a vampire (LA +8) without requiring any sort of price - wriggling and trying to change the rules around is unfair, if understandable. Your DM should instead recall that vampires are under the control of the vampire who created them, making them pretty useless PCs in most campaigns, and interesting ones in others. (Of course, if your character wasn't turned into a vampire by another vampire's energy drain, that's a bummer for your DM.)
The rules for energy drain and negative levels are in the DMG (energy drain is in that big list of general abilities and powers). Just look them up in the index at the back of the book.
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2009-02-10, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
Oh, he's edited down my abilities somewhat (destroyed by the beginning of my next turn if immersed in water at all, suggestion gaze instead of dominate, no Children of the Night, gaseous form limited to 10 rounds per day). The circumstances were kind of wierd but totally appropriate, and the vampire who created me was under an obligation to release me from servitude (don't ask :D).
Thanks for the page reference btw.
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2009-02-10, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
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2009-02-10, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
Oh what the hell, why not.
The character is a favored soul of Belial and Fierna, so she already has a strong bent towards seduction and trickery. I was hired by the party leader to accompany him on a mission to retrieve a powerful artifact, but we discovered that it had been stolen already when we got there. In the course of our investigation into the issue, we ran into a coven of vampires who act as mercenaries, spies, and thieves for an appropriate sum of gold (I have no idea why the DM put them there, but that's the case). Anyways, at one point in our travels we meet back up with one of the vampires and she decides to stay the night with us. Being the sneaky, conniving creature that I am, I snuck away in the middle of the night to try to extract information from her. Notice the first of the two things I said I had a bent towards. I got the information I was looking for, but in the process she bit me and turned me. That was a direct result of my "methods." I trusted her initially because she had demonstrated a strong sense of conscience, which I suspect is the reason that she released me from domination.
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2009-02-10, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
I always found it exceedingly odd that there is no initial save against energy drain from undead. Almost every similar special attack I can think of allows some kind of initial save to avoid the effect. I generally house-rule it that way anyway.
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2009-02-10, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
I remember seeing the save to negate negative levels right on the spot in the 3.0 stuff, like the Wight template in Savage Species.
However, 3.5 generally doesn't have that. You get hit, you take the negative level. Whether it's a wight, a vampire, or an enervation laser. Which I don't think is too bad, given that the debuff isn't really that crippling (it hits lots of things a little bit) until you start taking many, many negative levels, which won't happen if people keep making saves.Last edited by ChaosDefender24; 2009-02-10 at 09:08 PM.
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2009-02-10, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
This quote
A vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + ½ vampire’s HD + vampire’s Cha modifier unless noted otherwise.
The Vampire's energy drain attack does not mention a save and does not involve any effect that falls under an "always has a save" category, so it does not allow a saving throw. The major point of failure for the ability is the attack roll vs full AC.
Negative levels in general do allow a save 24 hours later to remove the negative level or lose a level permanently, but that is separate from the immediate effect.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2009-02-11, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-02-11, 03:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Regarding Vampire Slams
I'll probably houserule that negative levels only last for up to 24 hours each in my games (I know it would nerf Restoration, but the idea of a party member ending up 1 level behind everyone else without being killed irritates me). Do you think you'll try to cure yourself if there's a way of doing it?
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