LGBTAI+ #58 Infinity 2.0: The Darth Arminius Apology Thread

[Astrella]

Ok, I'll spoiler it in case no one wants to read it right out. And like I said, please don't feel any obligation what-so-ever for answering this.

Spoiler

Show

It is a more intrusive question (at least to me) than I would normally ask anyone, but esp someone who just got out of surgery. And I want you to know there is nothing but respect for you from me.

I am honestly not sure how to word it to not just completely sound horrible and like I'm trying to be pervy or something. But your perspective is unique as you have transitioned from MtF, something I won't be doing but have always been curious about. What is it like, now, to have cavity where there was something quite the opposite before? Emotionally, I assume, going through the surgery has seemed to make you feel more complete? Less trapped since a body you don't belong in? (at least I hope so!!) I guess my curious nature is more about the physical feeling and you body's response to now having genitalia that is now reversed.

It is still new, I know, and I'm sure you are still trying to process everything after the surgery. So please, very much please, don't think you need to answer this or even give a reason not to answer this. I am truly not trying to make you uncomfortable or give insults in any form. Like I said, I have nothing but respect for you, and I don't want to cheapen anything that you have gone through.

Well, things are still healing but; especially the first few days after surgery and still the first couple of weeks (barely get it now), it mentally felt like I still had my old bits; like, I'd have pangs of pain or such and it'd feel as if the analogous part on my previous bits was hurting. Not really phantom pain cause there was actual pain involved, but my body had to reimagine things essentially. It's quite common apparently.

That's slowly been fading away though and barely happens now still. It just, it still feels tender and such, but I guess the best way to put is that like, I'm not freaked out by it? Like, you'd expect a major change in body to like, have a big mental impact, but it surprises me how normal I find it already?

My old bits often felt a bit like, something that just got in the way a lot and being aware of them was often this annoying pang in the back of my head, and now that doesn't happen anymore really. Sorry I can't go into more detail I just, I'm still processing it myself a bit.

I don't know. I want to not be on Earth anymore, but I prefer breathing.
Life just isn't fair. There's no end to it and there's no beginning.

Mew. Is there someone you can talk to or reach out to? Please don't do anything rash. :c

the big issue for me has been granulation which is a very common issue, but lasted longer than does for most. I go back for another follow up this month to hopefully be done with that complication. It resulted in my going down a dilator size due to how bad it was when they started dealing with the massive amount of granulation tissue inside. Anyway, I hope that helps.
Mariah

Okie, thank you for sharing! Hope you get good news at the check up.

[ArlEammon]

Well, things are still healing but; especially the first few days after surgery and still the first couple of weeks (barely get it now), it mentally felt like I still had my old bits; like, I'd have pangs of pain or such and it'd feel as if the analogous part on my previous bits was hurting. Not really phantom pain cause there was actual pain involved, but my body had to reimagine things essentially. It's quite common apparently.

That's slowly been fading away though and barely happens now still. It just, it still feels tender and such, but I guess the best way to put is that like, I'm not freaked out by it? Like, you'd expect a major change in body to like, have a big mental impact, but it surprises me how normal I find it already?

My old bits often felt a bit like, something that just got in the way a lot and being aware of them was often this annoying pang in the back of my head, and now that doesn't happen anymore really. Sorry I can't go into more detail I just, I'm still processing it myself a bit.



Mew. Is there someone you can talk to or reach out to? Please don't do anything rash. :c



Okie, thank you for sharing! Hope you get good news at the check up.

I haven't felt good in my whole life. This sucks. I could talk in IM, but I'm not suicidal. Don't mistake me for that.

[Sobol]

Just read a cute webcomic about a gay hockey player (ex figure skater):
http://www.checkpleasecomic.com/

ArlEammon, hold on.

[ArlEammon]

Just read a cute webcomic about a gay hockey player (ex figure skater):
http://www.checkpleasecomic.com/

ArlEammon, hold on.

Thanks, Sobol.

[Irish Musician]

I don't know. I want to not be on Earth anymore, but I prefer breathing.
Life just isn't fair. There's no end to it and there's no beginning.

All of the hugs

Well, things are still healing but; especially the first few days after surgery and still the first couple of weeks (barely get it now), it mentally felt like I still had my old bits; like, I'd have pangs of pain or such and it'd feel as if the analogous part on my previous bits was hurting. Not really phantom pain cause there was actual pain involved, but my body had to reimagine things essentially. It's quite common apparently.

That's slowly been fading away though and barely happens now still. It just, it still feels tender and such, but I guess the best way to put is that like, I'm not freaked out by it? Like, you'd expect a major change in body to like, have a big mental impact, but it surprises me how normal I find it already?

My old bits often felt a bit like, something that just got in the way a lot and being aware of them was often this annoying pang in the back of my head, and now that doesn't happen anymore really. Sorry I can't go into more detail I just, I'm still processing it myself a bit.

No that is an amazing description, thank you so much for sharing, truly. Obviously you are still processing it a bunch yourself, but I am very happy that you seem to feel as though your body is, Correct?, I guess? If that is the right word for it. Anyway thank you for sharing that with me, and I hope it wasn't too intrusive! Hope your recovery goes well and you get better soon.

[Lycunadari]

Does anyone have any tips (or encouragement) for asking family to use different pronouns? They're all already using my new name (or at least try to) but because German doesn't really have any neutral pronouns I didn't mind them using my old pronouns. But I've been really dysphoric lately and maybe changing pronouns might help with that. So now I'd like them to try to alternate between male and female pronouns 'cause that's the closest I'm going to get to neutral.


Unrelated to that, I really like how I look in this picture~

Spoiler

Show

[Jormengand]

Does anyone have any tips (or encouragement) for asking family to use different pronouns? They're all already using my new name (or at least try to) but because German doesn't really have any neutral pronouns I didn't mind them using my old pronouns. But I've been really dysphoric lately and maybe changing pronouns might help with that. So now I'd like them to try to alternate between male and female pronouns 'cause that's the closest I'm going to get to neutral.

German has similar options to English, though unfortunately "Hack the plural into a singular neutral" doesn't work. That said, in German, some people are definitely referred to in the neuter gender (girls, for example, are neuter in German) so there shouldn't be the same problem using "Es" that there is using "It" in English, right? (Inasmuch as there ever was a problem using "It" in English, but let's not have that argument again).

[Irish Musician]

Does anyone have any tips (or encouragement) for asking family to use different pronouns? They're all already using my new name (or at least try to) but because German doesn't really have any neutral pronouns I didn't mind them using my old pronouns. But I've been really dysphoric lately and maybe changing pronouns might help with that. So now I'd like them to try to alternate between male and female pronouns 'cause that's the closest I'm going to get to neutral.


Unrelated to that, I really like how I look in this picture~

Spoiler

Show

I don't know if it would make it confusing, but could they use sie? My German is really rusty, but is that not fairly neutral? Like using "they"?

As far as asking, just sit them down and explain how it makes you feel. And if they could go back and forth between er and.....oh wait. She is sie, too, isn't it? Oh man, I'm an idiot.

Well, in any case, I'd just explain to them that it would make you feel more comfortable if they'd pop back and forth between the two.

In other news, love the pic, super cute. Love the shoelaces.

[Lycunadari]

German has similar options to English, though unfortunately "Hack the plural into a singular neutral" doesn't work. That said, in German, some people are definitely referred to in the neuter gender (girls, for example, are neuter in German) so there shouldn't be the same problem using "Es" that there is using "It" in English, right? (Inasmuch as there ever was a problem using "It" in English, but let's not have that argument again).

"Mädchen" (girl) is technically neuter*, but it isn't actually used that way, and usually people still use female pronouns that's even considered grammatically correct, because "es" can still be considered as dehumanising. (So a sentence like "The girl picks up her book." can be both "Das Mädchen hebt ihr Buch auf." and "Das Mädchen hebt sein Buch auf." and both are considered correct.) Also, some neuter pronouns are the same as the male pronouns anyway, so without context they aren't unmistakably neutral. That said, I wouldn't actually mind people using "es" for me, but that would always require more explaining and I don't want to have to out myself/be outed by family all the time. (That's also the reason why I don't do what other German nonbinary people do who just adopt English pronouns (usually they/them).)

*words ending in -chen are diminutives and always neuter – Mädchen was originally the diminutive of "Magd" (maid).

[Iruka]

Does anyone have any tips (or encouragement) for asking family to use different pronouns? They're all already using my new name (or at least try to) but because German doesn't really have any neutral pronouns I didn't mind them using my old pronouns. But I've been really dysphoric lately and maybe changing pronouns might help with that. So now I'd like them to try to alternate between male and female pronouns 'cause that's the closest I'm going to get to neutral.

I hope that alternating thing works out for you, probably not easy to integrate into everyday language.

What about avoiding pronouns completely? Seems easier to me ...

[137beth]

I hope that alternating thing works out for you, probably not easy to integrate into everyday language.

What about avoiding pronouns completely? Seems easier to me ...

Avoiding pronouns is also not necessarily easy to do in everyday language.

[Coidzor]

Does anyone have any tips (or encouragement) for asking family to use different pronouns? They're all already using my new name (or at least try to) but because German doesn't really have any neutral pronouns I didn't mind them using my old pronouns. But I've been really dysphoric lately and maybe changing pronouns might help with that. So now I'd like them to try to alternate between male and female pronouns 'cause that's the closest I'm going to get to neutral.

Is that really tenable, though? Most people aren't going to really set aside the headspace to keep track of how often they used which pronoun and which was used most recently, especially when meetings are separated by hours or days. Even if they care about someone else a lot.

I foresee a lot of slipping up and using the same pronoun multiple times in a row or picking one pronoun and only using it for an entire encounter/conversation/day. Would you be OK with that, or would that make things worse?

Also, if they alternate pronouns for you when talking about you to or around other people, won't that also out you like the other option you're not too keen on relating to Madchen?

Avoiding pronouns is also not necessarily easy to do in everyday language.

Part of it depends upon whether one has to talk about someone else or if there's a gender neutral second person pronoun and if you can have a conversation with someone where you only use second person pronouns for them.

At least, I don't think there's any group that's vehemently opposed to the pronoun "you" in English.

I'm gathering that Deutsch does not have a neuter second person pronoun that can be used organically, though, given the conversation so far.

I mean, the use of "other" suggests that the singer's gender doesn't necessarily have to be male either.

What? How do you figure? I'd find that the use of "other" would serve to imply that the singer is a guy himself.

[Iruka]

Avoiding pronouns is also not necessarily easy to do in everyday language.

Just use their name instead? Or am I forgetting some use of pronouns where that would not be possible?

Part of it depends upon whether one has to talk about someone else or if there's a gender neutral second person pronoun and if you can have a conversation with someone where you only use second person pronouns for them.

At least, I don't think there's any group that's vehemently opposed to the pronoun "you" in English.

I'm gathering that Deutsch does not have a neuter second person pronoun that can be used organically, though, given the conversation so far.

Oh, it does. Only the third person singular pronouns are gendered.

[ArlEammon]

Someone oughta make a new OP for a new thread. Any volunteers?

[Lentrax]

If she is up for it, I vote Astrella.

[Lycunadari]

I don't know if it would make it confusing, but could they use sie? My German is really rusty, but is that not fairly neutral? Like using "they"?

As far as asking, just sit them down and explain how it makes you feel. And if they could go back and forth between er and.....oh wait. She is sie, too, isn't it? Oh man, I'm an idiot.

Well, in any case, I'd just explain to them that it would make you feel more comfortable if they'd pop back and forth between the two.

In other news, love the pic, super cute. Love the shoelaces.

Yeah, sie is like the worst possible option, considering third person plural, female third person singular and formal second person (both singular and plural) are all sie (or Sie, in the case of formal second person, but you obviously can't hear the capital S).

Also, thanks, I like my shoelaces, too.

I hope that alternating thing works out for you, probably not easy to integrate into everyday language.

What about avoiding pronouns completely? Seems easier to me ...

Tbh, while that's possible, to me avoiding pronouns seems more difficult, or at least less natural.

Is that really tenable, though? Most people aren't going to really set aside the headspace to keep track of how often they used which pronoun and which was used most recently, especially when meetings are separated by hours or days. Even if they care about someone else a lot.

I foresee a lot of slipping up and using the same pronoun multiple times in a row or picking one pronoun and only using it for an entire encounter/conversation/day. Would you be OK with that, or would that make things worse?

Also, if they alternate pronouns for you when talking about you to or around other people, won't that also out you like the other option you're not too keen on relating to Madchen?




Part of it depends upon whether one has to talk about someone else or if there's a gender neutral second person pronoun and if you can have a conversation with someone where you only use second person pronouns for them.

At least, I don't think there's any group that's vehemently opposed to the pronoun "you" in English.

I'm gathering that Deutsch does not have a neuter second person pronoun that can be used organically, though, given the conversation so far.

Oh, I'd be happy with them just switching it up every so often, not necessarily every single time or during one conversation. Even a ration of like, 30% male and 70% female would be fine. That way, they wouldn't have to out me either, at least not to people they don't talk to regularly or who don't know me personally, just use one set of pronouns when talking to one person, and the other when talking to someone else, and only switch it up more often when talking to people who actually know me. Also, I'm not opposed to being out in general- on the contrary, I'd love to be out everywhere. I just don't want to have to explain myself to strangers because I have better things to do than to give a nonbinary 101 to everyone (and I don't really trust my cis family members to be able to accurately explain my gender to others, so I don't want to have them try to explain it, either.) Does that make sense?
Also, at least me godfather and his wife already do that- not with pronouns (afaik), but with other words relating to me when there isn't a neutral alternative (like alternating between niece and nephew).

And as Iruka said, second person pronouns are neutral, but using them obviously only works when I'm actually there.

[Chen]

Oh, I'd be happy with them just switching it up every so often, not necessarily every single time or during one conversation. Even a ration of like, 30% male and 70% female would be fine. That way, they wouldn't have to out me either, at least not to people they don't talk to regularly or who don't know me personally, just use one set of pronouns when talking to one person, and the other when talking to someone else, and only switch it up more often when talking to people who actually know me.

I think this is probably still a bit much and people, even if they agree, will inadvertently mess it up. Still that's a personal opinion. You can always ask and see how they take it.

[ve4grm]

Yeah, sie is like the worst possible option, considering third person plural, female third person singular and formal second person (both singular and plural) are all sie (or Sie, in the case of formal second person, but you obviously can't hear the capital S).

Sounds a lot like the multiple meanings of They. Seems like the ambiguity of it might actually be an advantage? (Though people would probably just assume it meant female third person, I guess. Never mind.)

Have you considered asking them to just use "they" when speaking to people who understand English? And whatever's convenient for speaking with people who don't?
My understanding of modern Germany is that most(?) people speak enough English that they may not even balk at the one inserted word. (At least in major cities, according to a friend who lives there while barely speaking any German?)

Maybe you'll start a new trend in pronouns!

[Irish Musician]

Yeah, sie is like the worst possible option, considering third person plural, female third person singular and formal second person (both singular and plural) are all sie (or Sie, in the case of formal second person, but you obviously can't hear the capital S).

Also, thanks, I like my shoelaces, too.

Yeah, about mid-way through that and I realized. Ah crap, sie is used for, like, a whole bunch of stuff lol

That's what I get using my rusty German

If she is up for it, I vote Astrella.

[JNAProductions]

Sure, why not? Astrella's a cool lady.

[Astrella]

Does anyone know of a good title?

[2D8HP]

Does anyone know of a good title?

LGBTAI+ #59: Astrella's Awesome Amazing Astounding Alliterative Support Thread?

[Asmodean_]

Does anyone know of a good title?

LGBTAI+ #59 Infinity 2.4 - Mega Ultra Hyper Giga Superb Stellar Support Thread

[Lentrax]

So my wife is sick again, and we needed to call the cable company about our upcoming bill. But with her as the only person able to make changes to our account, she had me do it. So I called, and pretended to be her. After we finished the call, she said to me, "Don't ever pretend to be me again. It freaked me out."

So I guess that means I have a passable voice now.

[Astrella]

I made a new thread.

All of the hugs

No that is an amazing description, thank you so much for sharing, truly. Obviously you are still processing it a bunch yourself, but I am very happy that you seem to feel as though your body is, Correct?, I guess? If that is the right word for it. Anyway thank you for sharing that with me, and I hope it wasn't too intrusive! Hope your recovery goes well and you get better soon.

It varies still a lit bit cause well, discomfort and I've been having some urinary issues but when no pain, yeah, it's pretty nice. Still a bit odd cause well, something's gone and different, but more in a "huh?" way, than a "oh no" way.