Raging Loop

[Illven]

Was always going to vote for you, wanted to see what would happen if it looked like parity/you being believed was happening.

That's fair.

[JeenLeen]

And, in general, let's be civil.
One of Illven and AV are lying. Things have gotten heated ("new player treated wolf for being a new player" or "AV treated overly sus for being AV"). Regardless of alignment, it's a game and take the lies lightly.

[Cazero]

Maybe a wolf fakeclaiming when they know they're going to get counterclaimed rather than just pushing someone else with their buddies is not as believable to others as it is to you.

Let's pretend for a moment that the fakeclaimer is a villager.
Not folding when confronted to a counterclaim can only be detrimental to town. At best they distrust the real Crow until the Snake outs themselves. At worst town lynches them both and start aiming for pairs who are also innocent while wolves are free to roam.

[Taffimai]

Maybe you're just her ****ing scumbuddy who's been trying to undercut my counterclaim from the single solitary second I started softing it because you knew it was incoming.

Remind me to respond to this after the game when you know I'm not lying.

[Snowblaze]

...gah. RL is crazy and my internet connection is temperamental at best today, so that's why I've been pretty quiet. Going to just go with my gut here since I haven't had time to develop anything better: Ilven.

Will try and get properly on top of this game and actually have reads, should have at least some time this evening in which to do that.

[Squork]

@Squork Serious vote please
Illven

Apologies, forgot this existed. Let me get my notes together and I'll share with the group. Don't worry, unvoting for now.

[Xihirli]

AV experience: watch every counterclaim in existence get automatically trusted and checked except when you do it. Unsurprising but still aggravating.

Last time I trusted you, you killed me and everyone else.

[Persolus]

Apologies, forgot this existed. Let me get my notes together and I'll share with the group. Don't worry, unvoting for now.

[since you're a new player on this forum, reminder to edit a strikethrough on your previous vote]

[Illven]

And, in general, let's be civil.
One of Illven and AV are lying. Things have gotten heated ("new player treated wolf for being a new player" or "AV treated overly sus for being AV"). Regardless of alignment, it's a game and take the lies lightly.

I'm being civil. It's just absolutely frustrating to get told.

"Hey, make reads on players that for the most part you've barely interacted with" or we'll sus you.
New player makes reads "THESE READS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, SUS!"

Like can you at least acknowledge the catch 22 I'm in?

[Taffimai]

Let's pretend for a moment that the fakeclaimer is a villager.
Not folding when confronted to a counterclaim can only be detrimental to town. At best they distrust the real Crow until the Snake outs themselves. At worst town lynches them both and start aiming for pairs who are also innocent while wolves are free to roam.

I think you misunderstood me. I am in no way suggesting they're both town. I was talking about AV's stance that the first claim is always the fake one.

[Persolus]

Last time I trusted you, you killed me and everyone else.

AV, you are incredibly charismatic and persuasive regardless of whether or not you're town. Any doubt I have i mean as a compliment.

[AvatarVecna]

Last time I trusted you, you killed me and everyone else.

Is this a reference to the previous game where you claimed Seer as wolf, or something else? I'm struggling to remember but that does sound like a thing I'd do. It still doesn't change the frustration tho.

[Persolus]

I'm being civil. It's just absolutely frustrating to get told.

"Hey, make reads on players that for the most part you've barely interacted with" or we'll sus you.
New player makes reads "THESE READS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, SUS!"

Like can you at least acknowledge the catch 22 I'm in?

Oh i 100% feel you. This happened to me in my second game.
I just feel like voting you gets more information, even if it turns out AV is lying.

[Taffimai]

I'm being civil. It's just absolutely frustrating to get told.

"Hey, make reads on players that for the most part you've barely interacted with" or we'll sus you.
New player makes reads "THESE READS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, SUS!"

Like can you at least acknowledge the catch 22 I'm in?

I remember my first time getting D1ed and it felt horrible. Whether you're wolf or town, you have my sympathy. Also welcome to the club!

[Illven]

Oh i 100% feel you. This happened to me in my second game.
I just feel like voting you gets more information, even if it turns out AV is lying.

Under what circumstance can killing the only other confirmable townie get us more info?

[Cause if the monkey dies, I'll know it and I can hint, or outright state it.]

[Taffimai]

Oh i 100% feel you. This happened to me in my second game.
I just feel like voting you gets more information, even if it turns out AV is lying.

What information do you think to get in a flipless game where the only player who gets to see the flips will be dead tomorrow?

[Persolus]

What information do you think to get in a flipless game where the only player who gets to see the flips will be dead tomorrow?

I mean about how you all interacted based on the votes.
Also based on the fact that we can have the Snake test vecna, on top of the whole Monkey business :)

[Illven]

I remember my first time getting D1ed and it felt horrible. Whether you're wolf or town, you have my sympathy. Also welcome to the club!

It's less the D1 which is going to happen in this case approx 1/14th of the time, and the.

Last game, Make reads. Let's sus Illven.
This game, make reads, Let's sus Illven.

Like at least some of game two, was Persolous's win condition and poor luck so you know that's fine. It's just intensely annoying.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean about how you all interacted based on the votes.
Also based on the fact that we can have the Snake test vecna, on top of the whole Monkey business :)

But neither of those require me to die.

[JeenLeen]

Like can you at least acknowledge the catch 22 I'm in?

Definitely. I've been there, and I've seen other players there. It really stinks to be a townie seeing the wolves make a play and winning because some odd mechanical circumstances make you look suspicious, or something you said got read wrong, and the town takes it as evidence against you.
I just can't take that it could be a townie in a catch-22 as evidence that it is really a townie.

For what it's worth, for me it's not that your reads seemed insufficient. They do feel a little pockety, but I'm not great at evaluating "pocketness" and so I don't trust my judgement there. For me, it's the little circumstances and some odd vibes all together that make you seem like the more likely wolf. Too many things that make sense for a wolf to say/do (even if a townie could legit say them), and AV made a good reasoning why a wolf might claim Crow given the setup of this game even knowing they'd be counterclaimed.

[Persolus]

It's less the D1 which is going to happen in this case approx 1/14th of the time, and the.

Last game, Make reads. Let's sus Illven.
This game, make reads, Let's sus Illven.

Like at least some of game two, was Persolous's win condition and poor luck so you know that's fine. It's just intensely annoying.

- - - Updated - - -



But neither of those require me to die.

One of you two is lying.
That much is absolute.

[Illven]

Definitely. I've been there, and I've seen other players there. It really stinks to be a townie seeing the wolves make a play and winning because some odd mechanical circumstances make you look suspicious, or something you said got read wrong, and the town takes it as evidence against you.
I just can't take that it could be a townie in a catch-22 as evidence that it is really a townie.

For what it's worth, for me it's not that your reads seemed insufficient. They do feel a little pockety, but I'm not great at evaluating "pocketness" and so I don't trust my judgement there. For me, it's the little circumstances and some odd vibes all together that make you seem like the more likely wolf. Too many things that make sense for a wolf to say/do (even if a townie could legit say them), and AV made a good reasoning why a wolf might claim Crow given the setup of this game even knowing they'd be counterclaimed.

But the catch 22 KEEPS happening. That's the issue.

[Taffimai]

It's less the D1 which is going to happen in this case approx 1/14th of the time, and the.

Last game, Make reads. Let's sus Illven.
This game, make reads, Let's sus Illven.

Like at least some of game two, was Persolous's win condition and poor luck so you know that's fine. It's just intensely annoying.

It is. I hope you have a better time with the friendly people in deadchat. Trust me that making reads D1 is always difficult, but eventually people will get to know you and how you play.

[Persolus]

Interestingly enough, Illven, you're giving me similar vibes right now as I got off of AV in my very first game.
She ended up powerwolfing and fooling us all.

[Illven]

Interestingly enough, Illven, you're giving me similar vibes right now as I got off of AV in my very first game.
She ended up powerwolfing and fooling us all.

Yeah, and you thought I was a wolf all last game too so?

[Persolus]

Nah i knew you weren't. I just had to kill you to win.

[Illven]

Nah i knew you weren't. I just had to kill you to win.

You said after only some of the accusations were after you got my call card?

[Persolus]

Screw it, I don't think you're experienced enough yet to not default to making this rant in the wolf chat.

Zelphas

- - - Updated - - -

You said after only some of the accusations were after you got my call card?

I got you D2, and i was actually trying to make bad accusations so I'd be lynched D1.

[Valmark]

day 1 end. No more voting from now on.

[Illven]

- - - Updated - - -



I got you D2, and i was actually trying to make bad accusations so I'd be lynched D1.

Oh, to trigger your boon? Out of curiosity who would you have picked?

[Squork]

My notes so far. Done on word so forgive the poor formatting. I know it's not the most insightful, just keeping tabs for myself. I probably won't do this for future games lol

- Pers with the first “I’M TOWN” on post #6
- If Pers and Taff were on the same scum team, they'd be more likely to talk about how he and I know each other in PM to try and get a read off of me #8-10
o Easy enough to fake… but I’m unconvinced so far
o Taf/Pers not scum together
- Jokingly baits people into voting Wombat #13
- Snowblade with the second “IM TOWN” #22
- Taff foreshadowing an “EVERYONE IS SCUM” game
o Trying to justify a poor voting game? Keep an eye on this
- Xihi, Snow, Blade with banter on P2
- JeenLeen sounds like BJ (guy from CDC)
o Great post on #28, but if JL survives past 3 rounds then scum
o Giving a townlean based on RP, sounds either naïve or trying to protect Snowblaze?
 Taff calls this out on #34
- Cazero with first self-vote #33
o No later posting
- First two pages, Pers stays uninvolved in general discourse
o Stands as an overarching figure, almost above the rest
o Standard scum tell, but don’t like Taff and Pers together
o YET starts the votecount to seem involved in the game
- AV is a quiet figure but still seems to help out from time to time (from first 3 pages)
- Ilven special-claiming #53
- Taff acting as the town lead
- AV counterclaiming special #62
o Makes one of AV/Il scum
- Xihi not reading thread, don't like
- JL #139 is very towny
- Ilven appeal to emotion by starting the whole catch22 thing

Overall:

Pers decided to stay out of the general conversation FAR too much in the early game, choosing to stick with one-liners, etc. I still don't see him and Taff as scum-scum, but it could go either way depending on the outcome. @pers, can you explain the reasoning behind your Zelph vote?

JeenLeen had a few very, very towny posts, but strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn't make it more than three rounds if they're town just because they're far too good as town.

Xihi, Snow and Blade had a bit of banter, but I'll have to look at this when I don't want to procrastinate on my two midterms on Friday.

@Xihi, I find it odd that you didn't know what special role was being claimed; it was mentioned in multiple posts, including short ones.

I do ultimately believe AV, not Il.

So far, I see Il, one of Taff/Pers, and xihi as my scum reads so far. I like JL and AV for town.