Community World Building Project (Dragon World)

[Silverscale]

I had started this idea a little while ago but that thread died out due to lack of input i guess. I'm going to try restarting the project to see if it goes anywhere thing time. There is a link in my sig to the original thread.

The basic idea is a world in which dragons long ago decided to work alongside each other and the "lesser beings" rather than competing over large territories and being hunted every other day by would be Dragon Hunters. This has resulted in a world where dragons are far more prevalent then your traditional setting. Where great cities and nations are governed by families of dragons and their dragon-kin.

Not only are there all the "official" dragons found in the Monster Manuals and other splat-books, but the dragons from this thread as well as any other dragons people might be interested to include.

If people show interest in this I'll post some of my other ideas. Hopefully this is enough to get some interest going.

[Gourtox]

A very intriguing idea. How much magic are you considering? High, low, or just normal?

[Silverscale]

On a scale of 1-10 for magic, one being virtually no magic and ten being magic-r-us. A magic-dead-zone would be 0, and the Plane of Magic would be at least 12. I guess that would put a basic setting somewhere between 4-6. For this setting with all the Dragons everywhere, I would put the magic ratting somewhere between 5-7 maybe 8 depending on where people wanna go with this.

[Symmys]

I propose that almost all humanoids are reptillian to some degree, as a side effect of the interbreeding that's occurred between dragons and the lesser species. And also that kobolds are one of the common PC races.

[Silverscale]

Yes the Draconic races are far more prevalent, but they have not completely replaced the other races. Also there are kobolds and they can be PCs but I don't want them to become the dominant race. I'm hesitant to put forth too many of my ideas early on because I want to encourage creativity but if you look at the Wiki in my sig you can get an idea of where this setting was going before it got side-tracked.

[Omeganaut]

Personally, i feel like this world is almost too perfect. The dragons and Kobolds had a peaceful resolution to a problem that has caused innumerable civil wars in our world. I feel as though some Kobolds would resent dragons for the past, and some dragons would feel that Kobolds deserved to be servants. Also, you may want to consider what the freeing of the kobolds did to the rest of the races. Gnomes would be competing for the same space, leading to increased war between these that may involve the dragons. Humans would be mad that they aren't the dominant species anymore, elves would be threatened by the dragon's knowledge of magic, and many barbaric races would probably be less aggressive because its hard to be intimidating compared to a dragon. Just my thoughts, I hope they help.

[Silverscale]

@Omeganaut: I assume you're responding to the Wiki and in particular to the content about the Kobolds. I should point out that the clans listed are by no means the only Kobolds, just the most organized. Also the thread only really focused on one major city ruled by good dragons before it got side-tracked so, yes , there are factions of elves, gnomes, humans, etc that do not follow the dragons............................

I would make a longer post but I have to go. I will get back to this later.

[Rhaegar14]

I'm gonna point out that the 3.5 sourcebook Dragon Magic has a lot of food-for-thought for this kind of thing in the later sections. The opening also has dragon-descended race variants. I dunno what edition you're running, but regardless I would definitely recommend looking it over.

[Silverscale]

Back to Omeganaut: the point I was making earlier is that yeah, what had been fleshed out was mostly a happy place with benevolent dragons leading an egalitarian society, but that's not the whole world just the bastion of good/order that is found in the Capitol City (which still needs a good name because I'm not sure about Bensokarthel)

Also we don't necessarily have to go the same direction that thread was going, although I'd hate to just throw all of it away either.

@Rhaegar14: That book and the Draconimicon and other splat-books relating to dragons, as well as this thread and this one too, are the inspiration behind this setting.

[D Johnston]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how dragons and humans (or any other race) are connected. Are dragons the patrons of humans, or are humans some sort of slave race? There seems to be some inconsistency in how you describe the circumstances. What really jumps out at me is the SpawnGuard. The notion that dragons would draft their own children into some sort of militaristic slave class is already bizarre, but it simply wouldn't work at all if dragons viewed humans as individuals worthy of rights.

All of this is based on material at your site, so if that's no longer applicable then I suppose you can ignore this.

[Silverscale]

@D Johnston: There are disperate views expressed on the Wiki because for one thing, not every dragon views the other beings the same way, there are those who view them as an extension of their own families, at least the ones that are are descended from them; others view them as lesser beings to be rules over; others as little more than slaves.

Also keep in mind that not only do we have Pureblood humans, elves, etc but there are also entire clans of Half-dragons/Dragon-descended and such.

Once again I find myself having to run....I will get back to this later.

[Silverscale]

Sorry Double-Post I would have gotten back to this sooner but I was waiting to see if anyone else would post anything.

As for Humans, elves, etc and how they view the dragons; again it's a matter of individual perspective. Some view them as beings worthy of worship. Others like the ones who created Thraeverthicha (If we decide to keep that or anything else form the last incarnation of this topic) view the dragons as creatures to emulate in there ability to fly. Others work along side them as brethren or kin. Others still fear them or even hate them. Some feel they are being oppressed (which is not unlikely from some of the evil dragons), others that they just want to do things their own way.

[Zaydos]

What gods would be used? Standard (Greyhawk) D&D pantheon? Or a more dragon-centric homebrew one?

Personally I see there as being many low-level sorcerers, but people with the potential to master even 2nd level spells being far rarer. Sorcerers would outnumber wizards by a fair bit and while 1st level spells would be common this natural talent for sorcery would have prevented people from actually studying magic in-depth. Combined with draconic rulers who would frown upon wizardry, either because it is a force that is dangerous in the wrong hands and liable to destabilize society (Lawful Good dragons) or because it is something dangerous to them (any evil dragon). So you end up with a world where there are truly fantastic magical effects, made by great wyrms either of the modern era or of old, and plentiful truly low level magic (prestidigitation is used as a basic cleaning tool), but ultimately only about average magic in humanoid hands.

I'd also say, though, that there would probably be a high level of natural magic in the environment and you could quite possibly have magical weather and terrain on the Prime.

[Mayhem]

So this will be similar to Council of Wyrm setting?

[Silverscale]

So this will be similar to Council of Wyrm setting?

I'm not familiar with that setting.....perhaps if you could put a link here or point me in the right direction to look it over.

@Zaydos: There is also the possibility that some Dragons such as the Gem Dragons will actually teach Wizardry/Sorcery to the humanoids. But over-all yes most of the high-level magic is in the hands of the Dragons.

As to a Pantheon, We have a couple of options already, including but not limited to the "Dragon Pantheon" which includes Io, Bahamut, Tiamat, Lendys, Cronopsis, etc.; and also the Pantheon that you yourself came up with last go around which includes several Ascended dragons such as Xixystrin, Uskgix, Asforthix, Xithicle, Tallus, etc. I don't really want to use the "Standard Gods" such as Pelor, Hextor, Venca, etc because at best they would be secondary Gods in this world. However the Races Of Books introduce (or at least greater detail to) a few other Gods and indeed other Pantheons that are specific to the different races. I think perhaps we can pull from those Pantheons; Gods such as Urbanus for Humans......I can't think of any others off the top of my head but you get the idea......

As to Magical weather/terrain, yes the land is saturated in magic in some areas which has resulted in many places where "natural" is a loose term at best.

[Mayhem]

Council of Wyrms is a Dungeons and Dragons boxed set, published in 1994, that includes rules for playing dragon, half dragon, and dragon servant characters. It includes three rule books: one for the base rules, one for dragon family and clan histories, and one for adventure modules.[1] In 1999 it was slightly revised and reprinted as a hardcover book.[2] This campaign setting is no longer officially supported.

The setting of the campaign is a chain of islands called Io's Blood Island Chain. These islands represent all major climates. It is separated from the rest of its fictional world by very large oceans.[1]

The dragons on the islands are described as having a loose democratic government with a caretaker. Each dragon clan with a wyrm level dragon gets a vote on issues before the Council of Wyrms. The caretaker only gets a vote on tie issues. Thus dragonkind cooperates and makes decisions on issues effecting dragon welfare.[1]

Humans are not native to the islands, and those humans who come to the islands are mostly adventurous dragon slayers.[1]

According to the draconic myth described in the setting, the islands were created by the dragon god Io. Seeing his children, the dragons, engulfed in dragon war, Io cried out: "If dragon blood must be spilled, then let it be mine!" He then slashed open his belly with his own claws and spilled his blood into the oceans. The divine blood solidified and became a chain of islands. These islands Io gave to the dragons, hoping that they would be able to live there in peace.[1] This campaign setting is no longer officially supported.

The servants of dragons are gnomes, dwarves, and elves and are called kin when serving a dragon. Usually a dragon's kin is made up of only one of those races and some dragons prefer certain races over others. There are wandering goblinoids about the land too, the first adventure actually has you hatching from your egg just in time to fight some goblin egg-thieves.
The dragons' alignments are a bit more flexible, but gold, silver, bronze, and red are the only reccomended PCs anyway so it's not much of a concern.

Council of Wyrm is an awesome setting, so a similar sort of one sounds great.

[Silverscale]

Given the above description of Council of Dragons, the answer to your question of whether this setting would be similar is, Yes and No.

Yes; there are clans of dragons who in some fashion or another work together to govern the world, I don't say rule here because to me that conjures images of ruling with an iron fist and being tyrannical and what not. Which is not to say that in some areas that is not indeed the case, but over all the Dragons are benevolent in there governing.

No; Humans are not limited to Dragon Hunters and indeed there are several clans that include dragon-descended humans in them.

Also this setting is not in any way limited to the 30-40, original/official dragons found listed in the back of the Draconomicon. Thanks in large part to Zaydos, there are an additional 100 or so dragons to choose from as we populate this world.

Also not specifically islands.....unless people wanna go that route.

Also the other races are not necessarily servants, they could just be kin working alongside the dragons instead of serving under them.

[Omeganaut]

It would be hard for other races to be equals with dragons, especially if, as you say, dragons have much more magic than others. Either there was a war in the past in which a system has been set up to ensure equality (at least in civilized lands), the two rarely mingle, with dragons under some sort of restriction that keeps them from attacking intelligent life that does not serve them, or the dragons rule. I think your going for one of the first two, or maybe even some combination.

[Silverscale]

I guess there's some system (that has yet to be defined) that helps ensure a measure of equality between dragons and their lesser kin, at least in the civilized areas.........hmmm something to ponder.

[Warrior Birdy]

I guess there's some system (that has yet to be defined) that helps ensure a measure of equality between dragons and their lesser kin, at least in the civilized areas.........

Maybe young dragons are forced by their elders to spend a longish (for mortals) period of time in humanoid shape, so they get a feel for the people they're governing.
Probably wouldn't work for the evil dragon city, but eh.

[Silverscale]

Maybe young dragons are forced by their elders to spend a longish (for mortals) period of time in humanoid shape, so they get a feel for the people they're governing.
Probably wouldn't work for the evil dragon city, but eh.

That sounds like a good idea....It would also help promote friendship with the other races as there would be a potential for a lot of interaction with not only the "lesser" races but also with other species of dragons.

With all the wonderful new Dragons that Zaydos has created I'm actually thinking that it wold be a good idea for the "Good City" if instead of 12 families each representing a different Core Dragon, Gold, Silver, etc....there are 12 factions/clans/whatever where each is mostly made up of one type of dragon but there are other types accepted into each group as well. That way if there are 2 or more dragons that would likely fill similar roles in society they can be part of the same flight of dragons,; and then we keep it that each of the 12 "families" has one of it's elders on the Dragon Council.

For those of you wondering why I keep saying 12, my original vision was that there would be 4 "families" that are charged with guarding the inner city/keep, and the other 8 each protect the 8 gates into the city, 4 at the cardinal directions and 4 at the ordinal directions. This can of course be changed if people wanna go a different route but I just like the symmetry and order of that idea.

[Omeganaut]

I do like the symmetry of your proposed city, and I think that might be the center of the civilized good world. The families may be better represented if you called them clans. Also, maybe dragons can only cast spells and study in humanoid form (dragons would have trouble with books, and paper is just out of the question). Maybe that would help explain why all dragons would take humanoid form.

[Zaydos]

You might also want to grant the Alternate Form ability to all dragons (of the MM dragons only the 3 Lawful Good dragons have it). There's a Dragonlance feat that can grant it to any dragon as is, but if you decide to limit their casting to human form it seems a painful feat tax. As another note if they can only cast spells in human(oid) form it's a pretty big power reducer.

[Silverscale]

Zaydos: I was already planning to give all dragons Alternate Form for free because even if we didn't limit their use of magic, it would still be a feat tax that they had to take in order to move freely throughout the smaller places in the cities.

Omeganaut: That would be another good way to help even out the difference for the "lesser" races. I'd say that in their true form they can't cast spells but can still use SLA's, SU's, etc. that way they're not completely crippled (as crippled as a huge mass of muscle and brains can be anyway).

[Omeganaut]

That's exactly what I was thinking silverscale. I'm glad we are on the same page.

[Silverscale]

In the interest of starting the process of creating the different Clans how about we list the general functions each clan could fulfill.

Sage/Lore-master Arcane
Sage/Lore-master History
Warrior/Soldier
Priest/Healer
Diplomat/Courtier
Messenger/Courier
Entertainer/Bard
......Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Then of course there are the various Classes that could be filled by one type of dragon or another, including but not limited to; Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock, Warlord, Avenger, Invoker, Shaman, Warden, Favored Soul, Hexblade, Marshal, Scout, Swashbuckler, Warmage, Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Duskblade, Knight, Adept, Aristocrat, Expert, Warrior, Ninja, Spellthief, Wugen, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman, Ardent, Divine Mind, Lurk, Samurai, Sohei, Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade. (Can you tell I had fun flipping through my books)

[Zaydos]

Where are the following classes from:

Warlord, Avenger, Invoker, Shaman, Warden.

Also I'd advice against dragons as dragon totem shamans for the same reason I wouldn't suggest Dragonfire Adepts for dragons, but stronger since dragon totem shamans emulate dragons and are bestowed power by them.

[Silverscale]

Where are the following classes from:

Warlord, Avenger, Invoker, Shaman, Warden. 4th E.D.Player's Handbook Iⅈ though I know at least the Shaman also shows up in Oriental Adventures or something so it has 3.X info, not sure about the others

Also I'd advice against dragons as dragon totem shamans for the same reason I wouldn't suggest Dragonfire Adepts for dragons, but stronger since dragon totem shamans emulate dragons and are bestowed power by them.

I agree though that doesn't mean their Kin can't take those classes/PRC's but yes having a Dragon take a class or PRC that helps it emulate dragons would just be weirdly redundant and over-powered.

[Rob Roy]

I'm assuming this is the Dragon World that Silverscale posted about in the Ishka thread (and is the one with the wiki mentioned in his sig). In which case, you'll probably want to update your sig Silverscale. If, on the off chance that the wiki isn't being used in this project, then disregard the next few sentences.


I've just read all four pages of the wiki, and for now I'm going to assume that most of the stuff in this thread is on it, since I haven't read the whole thread. On the wiki I didn't see any mention of dwarves, and in a setting dominated by dragons, you'd think dwarves would either nonexistent because of conflict with the dragons, or they would be a dominate race because they buddied up with the dragons. If they came into conflict it would be because they compete for living space and shiny things, and if they became best pals it would be because both groups have very similar motivations (they both just love the shineys), and some dragons and dwarven clans thought they would be able to have more symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship with each other than the dragons have with the other races on the world.

[Silverscale]

I'm assuming this is the Dragon World that Silverscale posted about in the Ishka thread (and is the one with the wiki mentioned in his sig). In which case, you'll probably want to update your sig Silverscale. If, on the off chance that the wiki isn't being used in this project, then disregard the next few sentences. Yes this is the thread in question, I guess I should probably update my sig. As to whether or not the Wiki is still being used for this project; the best answer I can give right now is....kinda. I put that wiki together when I originally started this project with a different thread about 9-10 months ago but that thread stalled out partly because Zaydos had started his 100+ Dragons thread and I was waiting to see where that went since a lot of them will probably get used in this setting. The wiki has not been recently updated because I'm not sure yet if we're going with all of that information, some of it, or none of it. Obviously I would prefer to use at least some of it since there's a lot of good stuff there.


I've just read all four pages of the wiki, and for now I'm going to assume that most of the stuff in this thread is on it, since I haven't read the whole thread. On the wiki I didn't see any mention of dwarves, and in a setting dominated by dragons, you'd think dwarves would either nonexistent because of conflict with the dragons, or they would be a dominate race because they buddied up with the dragons. If they came into conflict it would be because they compete for living space and shiny things, and if they became best pals it would be because both groups have very similar motivations (they both just love the shineys), and some dragons and dwarven clans thought they would be able to have more symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship with each other than the dragons have with the other races on the world.

Thus far Dwarves have not been specifically touched upon of course neither have most of the core races.

The way I see it, each of the core races has found a way to work together with at least one clan of dragons, probably more then one, in a way that benefits them. So yes the Dwarves would have capitalized on their love of all things shiny. The Elves would have capitalized on their love of knowledge and magic. The Humans would have just done as they always have and adapted to the new shift in power and become the most prolific producers of Half Dragons and Dragon-descended in their bid for power. As noted on the Wiki, Kobolds have mostly broken away from the slave/master relationship they had with dragons to become mercenaries, merchants, and craftsmen for hire.