Schlock Mercenary X: The Mundivore, or, "Eat it"

[keybounce]

AKA: "Just eat it", "The winning point of the moral compass", or ...

Welcome to another exciting installment in the ongoing adventures of Tagon's Toughs. Here we will discuss the hit webcomic Schlock Mercenary!

These days, some people will get eaten by Schlock, and we might see a pretty explosion or two. We're seeing a war between barionic and non-barionic matter, as Andromeda and Milky Way fight a war long before Andromeda gobbles up Milky Way just because of gravity (lets face it, gravity sucks), with "Attack the healers" being the call of the battle. Of course, when an anti-matter bomb would only scratch the paint of the healer, fighting back requires ... unconventional forces.

Spoiler: Previous Threads

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Schlock Mercenary
Schlock Mercenary
Schlock Mercenary thread: The Tub is Full of Happiness Again
Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Schlock Mercenary IV: Chrome and Punishment
Schlock Mercenary V: You're Missing Something Wonderful
Schlock Mercenary VI: Eat It, Kill It, Make Friends With It, Take a Bath in It
Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days
And the most recent,
Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

Hey, this is actually the X thread. Let me fix that then.

[keybounce]

OK, I have lost track of all the time clones at this point. Can someone help me?

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2020-05-07 has Tagon carrying a warhead, as a direct callback to an earlier. If I'm counting correctly, this is the third Tagon.

My memory:
The first was killed while doing a base infiltration that went fubar; he died making sure someone else got out. I can't find the link to that one. This was when the first timeline was past the "split point", when Andromeda was destroying Milky Way's gates to the point that when they realized they were being manipulated/attacked, it was no longer possible to respond.
This timeline was "reload game?" restored to a prior point with some extreme science abuse that allowed both Kevyn and a tiny schlock to return back with knowledge of what happened.

The second timeline had a Tagon that "mostly died" while delivering a warhead, and had to be regrown from leftovers; this took four months?

If alt-Kevyn is saying that this Tagon is smarter than his Tagon, then he's comparing the one that died in a fubar mission (as dumber than) to one that has explicitly denied being the same as the one that carried a warhead into a conflict to deploy it.

How much of this memory is accurate, and how much of the archive do I need to re-read?

EDIT: Corrected the pselling of 'Kevyn"

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Tagon's character has been written as a bit more thoughtful in recent years. He's able to talk with his dad, knows the limits of his own experience, has normal conversations with women, small things like that.

The Tagon Kevyn used to work with years ago was a very capable soldier, a good field commander and a decent human being whenever it really counted, but there has been some development over these years, and this Kevyn spent those years working with Petey.

Also, even back then Kevyn underestimated Tagon, he warned Pranger that Tagon might not get the triple cross because he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but Tagon got it just fine. The guy has a habit of thinking nobody can possibly be as smart as he is, and it's other Kevyn that learned humility from Elf.

[NEO|Phyte]

OK, I have lost track of all the time clones at this point. Can someone help me?

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2020-05-07 has Tagon carrying a warhead, as a direct callback to an earlier. If I'm counting correctly, this is the third Tagon.

My memory:
The first was killed while doing a base infiltration that went fubar; he died making sure someone else got out. I can't find the link to that one. This was when the first timeline was past the "split point", when Andromeda was destroying Milky Way's gates to the point that when they realized they were being manipulated/attacked, it was no longer possible to respond.
This timeline was "reload game?" restored to a prior point with some extreme science abuse that allowed both Kevyn and a tiny schlock to return back with knowledge of what happened.

The second timeline had a Tagon that "mostly died" while delivering a warhead, and had to be regrown from leftovers; this took four months?

If alt-Kevyn is saying that this Tagon is smarter than his Tagon, then he's comparing the one that died in a fubar mission (as dumber than) to one that has explicitly denied being the same as the one that carried a warhead into a conflict to deploy it.

How much of this memory is accurate, and how much of the archive do I need to re-read?

EDIT: Corrected the pselling of 'Kevyn"

I suspect that the original timeline Tagon death probably shouldn't count, since the current Tagon never experienced said death due to time travel.
The warhead delivery death wasn't mostly dead, it was all the way dead, they rebuilt him from his most recent brain backup (which turned out to be 45 minutes prior)

[Lizard Lord]

From my read of the Planet Mercenary RPG the Xuvoth system was part of the League of Galactics. So it would seem odd that they would think P.D. being invaded by the entities whoose invasion of the Xuvoth system lead to them, or anyone, no longer having a presence there.

[factotum]

From my read of the Planet Mercenary group the Xuvoth system was part of the League of Galactics. So it would seem odd that they would think P.D. being invaded by the entities whoose invasion of the Xuvoth system lead to them, or anyone, no longer having a presence there.

It's not odd at all. Something that's happening to "other people" is very easy to ignore, especially when *not* ignoring it means you have to start fighting yourself. The old divide and conquer strategy has been used many times, because it generally works.

[sihnfahl]

It's not odd at all. Something that's happening to "other people" is very easy to ignore, especially when *not* ignoring it means you have to start fighting yourself. The old divide and conquer strategy has been used many times, because it generally works.

Especially when one target is an overbearing AI with a superiority complex (if not justified by his relative power in the MW galaxy) that loves to meddle in affairs to, uh, 'nudge' people into doing the right thing. Or what he thinks is the right thing.

[Thomas Cardew]

That's ... not how the first responder protocol works. Yes, the first officer on scene is the incident commander, but that role can and frequently is assumed by senior or more qualified officers when they arrive on scene after being caught up. Otherwise you'd end up with stuff like a fire lieutenant running the entirety of tornado response because his truck was first one to respond to a call.

[Shalmon]

Senior or more qualified officers when they arrive on scene after being caught up.

Catching up might take time they don't have, so does convincing them that the the U.N.S officers are more qualified. I don't expect our new admiral being able to get rid of that job soon.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

That's ... not how the first responder protocol works. Yes, the first officer on scene is the incident commander, but that role can and frequently is assumed by senior or more qualified officers when they arrive on scene after being caught up. Otherwise you'd end up with stuff like a fire lieutenant running the entirety of tornado response because his truck was first one to respond to a call.

That's how it works in our world, where organizations like NATO do their best to have some kind of comparable ranks between their member states. In a big and wild universe were presumably some cultures just have an entirely different idea of what a military is it's still a silly protocol, but not to the point that I can't forgive the idea of it existing.

[Thomas Cardew]

Catching up might take time they don't have, so does convincing them that the the U.N.S officers are more qualified. I don't expect our new admiral being able to get rid of that job soon.

Agreed, but that's because Howard wants the Toughs in charge so he's jumping through hoops to put the Toughs in charge anyways. In universe, they'd be subordinating themselves to Petey or forming another fleet-mind to work with him the way the multi-species alliance did before because that's the only type of entity capable of handling a simultaneous battle across multiple systems and dimensions. First here which disbanded And then here which didn't. Just with a better off--switch to avoid another creating another psycho bear. Pretty much every major military would have been working on ways-to-make-sure-this-never-happens-again-other-than-not-forming-one-because-we-really-need-this-tool after the first one.

That's how it works in our world, where organizations like NATO do their best to have some kind of comparable ranks between their member states. In a big and wild universe were presumably some cultures just have an entirely different idea of what a military is it's still a silly protocol, but not to the point that I can't forgive the idea of it existing.

Eh. He was explicitly referencing 'old', which usually means our modern, and 'first responders' not military. As a first responder it was enough to jar me out of the comic. And NATO's a bad example as it's whole purpose is coordinate multiple member states armies.

[JavaScribe]

That... sure is an inflexible protocol.

[Rakaydos]

That's ... not how the first responder protocol works. Yes, the first officer on scene is the incident commander, but that role can and frequently is assumed by senior or more qualified officers when they arrive on scene after being caught up. Otherwise you'd end up with stuff like a fire lieutenant running the entirety of tornado response because his truck was first one to respond to a call.

What's being described in comic as "first responder" protocol, the characters themselves know better as "A sergent in motion outranks a louie who doesnt know what going on."

As first on the scene, the toughs get to put the reinforcements where they need them. And if that means delegating command to someone more qualified, that too is a prerogative of command.

Edit: of course, then they give it to the really rapidly moving sergent... *sigh*

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Okay, now they're being ridiculous. A protocol meant for armies does not apply to individual soldiers.

Though at this point Schlock probably technically is the largest non-pa'anuri fighting force in the galaxy, outweighing the UNS' battleplate collection by a factor of 100 or so, so he might have still gotten to be in charge if they used a less silly protocol. (Okay, okay, his employer might still get to be in charge, there is no single usually reasonable protocol that would put the sergeant personally in charge of a galaxy worth of ships.)

[Lizard Lord]

And NATO's a bad example as it's whole purpose is coordinate multiple member states armies.

Isn't that the whole purpose here?

[Kornaki]

Isn't that the whole purpose here?

I think the point is they are trying to use the simplest method possible to assign command here. NATO would be a pretty big waste of money if after 60 years and billions of dollars they haven't come up with something better to use amongst themselves.

There's probably a hidden agenda with picking this method, which is encouraging everyone to get off their butts and get over there to avoid being bottom of the pecking order. This will hopefully avoid everyone deciding to just wait it out and let others fight.

[Thomas Cardew]

What's being described in comic as "first responder" protocol, the characters themselves know better as "A sergent in motion outranks a louie who doesnt know what going on."

As first on the scene, the toughs get to put the reinforcements where they need them. And if that means delegating command to someone more qualified, that too is a prerogative of command.

Edit: of course, then they give it to the really rapidly moving sergent... *sigh*

"First responders" doesn't refer to military personal, it's typically for people who respond to emergencies most commonly accidents and natural disasters, but also terrorism. The US Homeland Security defines it is as

"The term "first responder" refers to those individuals who in the early stages of an incident are responsible for the protection and preservation of life, property, evidence, and the environment, including emergency response providers as defined in section 2 of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. § 101), as well as emergency management, public health, clinical care, public works, and other skilled support personnel (such as equipment operators) that provide immediate support services during prevention, response, and recovery operations"

The system Howard is referring to, since he called it ancient today which means our contemporary, is probably the incident command system (ICS) which was developed by the Bush II administration in response to the CF that was Katrina response. It establishes command lines and procedures precisely so that, the on-site commanders can handle the immediate emergencies while accessing additional resources and transferring command upwards if needed. It's for civilian emergency/first responders. Particularly because the US military can't freely operate in the US without authorization, hence the need for Governors to mobilize the national guard in a crises.

Okay, now they're being ridiculous. A protocol meant for armies does not apply to individual soldiers.

Though at this point Schlock probably technically is the largest non-pa'anuri fighting force in the galaxy, outweighing the UNS' battleplate collection by a factor of 100 or so, so he might have still gotten to be in charge if they used a less silly protocol. (Okay, okay, his employer might still get to be in charge, there is no single usually reasonable protocol that would put the sergeant personally in charge of a galaxy worth of ships.)

So much this. Schlock's operating in a clearly defined existing command structure, just because he was first on scene doesn't mean he now commands the Toughs.

Isn't that the whole purpose here?

I meant that NATO is for coordinating an existing alliance, not managing an ad hoc one. It's reason for existence is coordinating military forces, while first responder protocol is for responding to an emergencies not fighting a war.

[uncool]

What's being described in comic as "first responder" protocol, the characters themselves know better as "A sergent in motion outranks a louie who doesnt know what going on."

As first on the scene, the toughs get to put the reinforcements where they need them. And if that means delegating command to someone more qualified, that too is a prerogative of command.

Edit: of course, then they give it to the really rapidly moving sergent... *sigh*

The thing about "A sergent in motion outranks a louie who doesnt know what going on." is that it is and must be temporary - it lasts until the louie knows what's going on.

If there's enough time for Commodore Tagon to personally tell Schlock what's going on, there's enough time for Schlock to tell him what's going on and transfer command. Not to mention that the AIs seem to have all of the necessary information.

[Rakaydos]

The thing about "A sergent in motion outranks a louie who doesnt know what going on." is that it is and must be temporary - it lasts until the louie knows what's going on.

If there's enough time for Commodore Tagon to personally tell Schlock what's going on, there's enough time for Schlock to tell him what's going on and transfer command. Not to mention that the AIs seem to have all of the necessary information.

...yea, I wrote that before I saw they gave command to Schlock, believe it or not.

[uncool]

...yea, I wrote that before I saw they gave command to Schlock, believe it or not.

Ah yeah, sorry - didn't check the dates.

[tonberrian]

Let's be fair. Rank is a function of firepower, and Schlock is currently the strongest Milky Way space combatant by several orders of magnitude. And unfortunately for everyone else, the only Toughs' AI in the Milky Way is Suit-Cone. And she's not a real AI! (Maybe. Some fabber cycles devoted to making a better Suit AI wouldn't have gone amiss.)

[factotum]

You know, it's a good thing Schlock is derived from an ancient computer memory system, because at the moment he seems to be having no trouble being simultaneously his regular self aboard the Sergeant in Motion, a more-than-planet-sized dark matter entity, and also embedded into the ship's infosphere. Pretty sure that would drive most beings stark raving mad.

[DeTess]

You know, it's a good thing Schlock is derived from an ancient computer memory system, because at the moment he seems to be having no trouble being simultaneously his regular self aboard the Sergeant in Motion, a more-than-planet-sized dark matter entity, and also embedded into the ship's infosphere. Pretty sure that would drive most beings stark raving mad.

What I think we're seeing here is that particular checkov's gun finally being fired. I've got the feeling that, with the hardware Schlock currently has access to, he can rapidly become very qualified for the position he's currently in.

[HandofShadows]

What I think we're seeing here is that particular checkov's gun finally being fired. I've got the feeling that, with the hardware Schlock currently has access to, he can rapidly become very qualified for the position he's currently in.

Qualified to operate the system, yes. Responsible enough to operate the system without oversight, probably not.

[Rockphed]

I find Petey's objection to Schlock unconvincing. Nobody in a modern military operates without support. Even in WWII, the leadership would probably not have been able to find the front without a massive staff deciphering reports and managing the maps. Schlock can probably tell the Commodore (or suit-cone) where he needs help and let them direct reinforcements for maximum effect. Letting Petey run the show would cut Schlock out of those decisions.

[DeTess]

I find Petey's objection to Schlock unconvincing. Nobody in a modern military operates without support. Even in WWII, the leadership would probably not have been able to find the front without a massive staff deciphering reports and managing the maps. Schlock can probably tell the Commodore (or suit-cone) where he needs help and let them direct reinforcements for maximum effect. Letting Petey run the show would cut Schlock out of those decisions.

I reckon that's Petey's main problem here, actually. It's not that he objects to Schlock being nominally in charge as long as he delegates stuff that needs delegating. The problem is that the things aren't being delegated to him.

[Thomas Cardew]

For me, it's less about 'finding' the front, otherwise we get into the military equivalent of the coastline paradox, and more about knowing where it should be, what the objectives are, what the enemies' objectives are, what needs to happen to win the war. Actual strategy. Schlock understands his current battlefield. He has no idea where to go or what to do next, he needs someone to tell him that. Thus he is incapable of leading it an a meaningful way. He's also incapable of coordinating it, given that he can't 'manage' a conversation with Commodore Tagon and fight at the same time.

[factotum]

He's also incapable of coordinating it, given that he can't 'manage' a conversation with Commodore Tagon and fight at the same time.

Um, he totally *can* do that? He was happily killing Pa'anuri in his dark matter form while speaking to Commodore Tagon in his normal form and Petey in the infosphere.

[Rockphed]

Um, he totally *can* do that? He was happily killing Pa'anuri in his dark matter form while speaking to Commodore Tagon in his normal form and Petey in the infosphere.

He is just bad at not speaking in all forms at once (hence the commodore's wanting to hear the other half of his conversation).

[Thomas Cardew]

Um, he totally *can* do that? He was happily killing Pa'anuri in his dark matter form while speaking to Commodore Tagon in his normal form and Petey in the infosphere.

Poorly. He was doing it poorly.