OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

How has no-one talked about Sigdi's axe yet? It very much reappeared in her hand after she very much lost it down the pit.

Is it a weapon of legacy?

It's an art mistake. Fixed now.

I often draw comic panels out of order based on what I feel like doing first or last, whether that's due to mood or difficulty or what have you. In this case, I drew those end panels early on, but I didn't decide she was going to lose her axe until I drew the overhead-shot panel and decided I wanted the axe at the bottom to illustrate the distance down. I didn't notice the axe was still in the end shot afterwards.

[Resileaf]

So, is the female bard wearing blue dead, or did she fall onto the other (unbroken) half of the bridge.

Also, given that she and the other bard are both wearing blue, both have brown hair, and both seem to have wooly/curly hair, I'm going to assume that they are siblings, especially as Sigdi refers to them as "you kids".

Additionally, does falling to your death in battle count as honorable?

Considering we have a view of the hole under Sigdi when Hoskin grabs her arm and that the other dwarf is not seen falling, she's most likely on the other side of the bridge.

[MADCrab]

Way to show the horrible implications of the Bet to everyone, Giant.

I can't imagine how much beer Thor must have had in his system to go along with this incredibly Evil plan...

Really feel sorry for the Dwarves now.

I've always thought that was pretty straightforward.
The bet isn't actually between Thor and Hel. It's between Loki and Hel, about Thor. He can't say no. All he can do is try to thwart Hel.

[maxon]

So, is the female bard wearing blue dead, or did she fall onto the other (unbroken) half of the bridge.

In panel 9, she seems to be falling towards the 'down' half of the broken bridge behind the worm's head.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I've always thought that was pretty straightforward.
The bet isn't actually between Thor and Hel. It's between Loki and Hel, about Thor. He can't say no. All he can do is try to thwart Hel.

Which (from what we've seen), he tries as much as possible.

Considering we have a view of the hole under Sigdi when Hoskin grabs her arm and that the other dwarf is not seen falling, she's most likely on the other side of the bridge.

In that case, it seems as though no dwarves were killed in the breaking of that bridge.

In panel 9, she seems to be falling towards the 'down' half of the broken bridge behind the worm's head.

Huh, so it probably wasn't intended to be ambiguous, I'm just kind of bad at parsing 2.5-dimensional perspective.

[PontificatusRex]

Way to show the horrible implications of the Bet to everyone, Giant.

I can't imagine how much beer Thor must have had in his system to go along with this incredibly Evil plan...

Really feel sorry for the Dwarves now.

Nope, don't see that at all. Even without knowing that a wonderful afterlife is waiting, I'd still rather die quickly and doing something worthwhile than slowly degenerating from old age. If you know for a fact that Valhalla is waiting, that just removes the fear of what comes after.

I am reminded of all the things Tolkien wrote about the downfall of Numenor - the people there went from viewing death as the gift at the end of a life well-lived to a thing to be feared, and clung to life with their minds and bodies decaying, long after their proper time to have passed. That was the opening Sauron used to corrupt and destroy them.

[gatemansgc]

Not all of them violate the forum rules when translated. "Geggie" means mouth. "Roaster" is someone who is making a fool of themselves. "Haf-pished" is partially intoxicated. Skelp is to hit. I'll leave the rest alone.

bawbag makes me think of "hurricane bawbag", lol.

you have experience with the accent irl or just good googling?

[Fyraltari]

I wonder if this implies that challenging someone to a fight and killing them is perfectly legal in most dwarven states. I could see honor duels being allowed, even to the death, with a loose need for a good justification.

Pretty sure it is. Though, my guess would be that both parties would have to agree beforehand on wether the duel is supposed to be to the death.

So, is the female bard wearing blue dead, or did she fall onto the other (unbroken) half of the bridge.

Also, given that she and the other bard are both wearing blue, both have brown hair, and both seem to have wooly/curly hair, I'm going to assume that they are siblings, especially as Sigdi refers to them as "you kids".

Additionally, does falling to your death in battle count as honorable?

Sure, if you are thrown by your ennemy as we see here. At least that's what Thor would argue.

I've always thought that was pretty straightforward.
The bet isn't actually between Thor and Hel. It's between Loki and Hel, about Thor. He can't say no. All he can do is try to thwart Hel.

No, it's explictly between Hel and Thor as coined by Loki.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Durkon's "literally" felt jarring to me. An ill-fitting case of modern Internet slang (and I find today's overuse of the word "literally" annoying).

"Literally" meaning "figuratively" is not modern. It's use in that sense can be tracked to at least Dickens. It is also hardly unique - enough words exist in English language that are their own antonyms that they exist as their own category: Janus words.

Grey Wolf

[Oxenstierna]

I was going to post about my surprise that hitting someone with a hammer in the face wasn’t against Dwarven law, then I read the explanation that they are in a middle chamber, not the inner chamber yet. Then I thought it would probably be funniest if, after the preparation to influence the council through extensive exploitation of the laws, the vampires overlooked something simple that was allowed, and could stop them. Like a hammer in the face. Explicitly cited as permissible under Dwarf Law by ruling of King Hammerface. Also known as Hammerface the Terrible Debater.

[Anarion]

The Hel agreement and how it affects every part of Dwarven society is really interesting. I liked how all the dwarves were smiling right after he got eaten.

[Resileaf]

Can we appreciate a moment how strong Sigdi's grip strength is to hold herself backwards like that?

[Kish]

"Literally" meaning "figuratively" is not modern. It's use in that sense can be tracked to at least Dickens. It is also hardly unique - enough words exist in English language that are their own antonyms that they exist as their own category: Janus words.

Grey Wolf

The problem is that if "literally" means something other than literally, then there's no way in English to convey that you actually mean literally.

Modern or not, that use of "literally" should go to Hel. Should literally go to Hel, even.

[Dion]

I’m not crying. You’re crying.

[Peelee]

The problem is that if "literally" means something other than literally, then there's no way in English to convey that you actually mean literally.

"Non-figuratively."

If I ignore the implied "non-clunky way," of course.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The problem is that if "literally" means something other than literally, then there's no way in English to convey that you actually mean literally.

Modern or not, that use of "literally" should go to Hel. Should literally go to Hel, even.

No, the problem is that people like to tell tall tales and exaggerate. That there is no word that only means literally, despite there being at least three that can mean it sometimes, but can also mean figuratively (truly, totally, literally) is indicative that human nature is what it is, and that there is nothing language can come up with that won't almost immediately be used to aggrandise a story in a way that makes it obvious the statement was figurative.

Also, it is hardly the only language feature English lacks. Clusivity would be nice, for example. And as things go, it's hardly the worst. Certainly not bad enough to literally or figuratively condemn it to Hel.

Grey Wolf

[Thecommander236]

The problem with having to die heroically is that if you're too good a fighter, you'll never find someone that can kill you. "Ah ****, he died of a heartache, so he's going to hell..." "But he killed a HUNDRED men by himself!" "Nope, hell." Seems a bit unfair.

[georgie_leech]

"Literally" meaning "figuratively" is not modern. It's use in that sense can be tracked to at least Dickens. It is also hardly unique - enough words exist in English language that are their own antonyms that they exist as their own category: Janus words.

Grey Wolf

Even older; there are known uses of literally as an intensifier 50 years before Dickens was born, much less writing. This fight was lost literally centuries before any of us were born

[Peelee]

The problem with having to die heroically is that if you're too good a fighter, you'll never find someone that can kill you. "Ah ****, he died of a heartache, so he's going to hell..." "But he killed a HUNDRED men by himself!" "Nope, hell." Seems a bit unfair.

To be fair here, the entire bet seems a bit unfair. That said, of course, it's a D&D world, I'm pretty sure you can find something to kill you if you're really looking.

[Lathund]

Now that Hoskin has saved her life via outstretched arm, I wonder if Sigdi will be more receptive to his proposals?

Exactly my thoughts. I did see someone mention Hoskin got married though. Can someone refresh my memory about that?

[Sniccups]

The problem is that if "literally" means something other than literally, then there's no way in English to convey that you actually mean literally.

Modern or not, that use of "literally" should go to Hel. Should literally go to Hel, even.

I always just use “quite literally”

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The problem with having to die heroically is that if you're too good a fighter, you'll never find someone that can kill you. "Ah ****, he died of a heartache, so he's going to hell..." "But he killed a HUNDRED men by himself!" "Nope, hell." Seems a bit unfair.

...

That's the point. It is horrendously unfair. Gods-playing-with-the-fate-of-mankind level of unfair.
Literally

Exactly my thoughts. I did see someone mention Hoskin got married though. Can someone refresh my memory about that?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html

Grey Wolf

[Pampukin]

I know that its weaved by story logic, but Kandro must have been pretty high level to hit a 35 AC twice and bypass the DR (tho his axe might have been magic.)

The link to Thor fighting Hel over a splinter made me wonder if the level of heroism required for a "honorable" death is in the eye of the demised.

Awesome comic, I check the website probably twice a day for updates. (Then I skulk the forums for a laugh)

[D.One]

It's an art mistake. Fixed now.

I often draw comic panels out of order based on what I feel like doing first or last, whether that's due to mood or difficulty or what have you. In this case, I drew those end panels early on, but I didn't decide she was going to lose her axe until I drew the overhead-shot panel and decided I wanted the axe at the bottom to illustrate the distance down. I didn't notice the axe was still in the end shot afterwards.

... and I was already running for the Geekery thread to suggest tha Sidgi had a returning axe...

[Fyraltari]

I was going to post about my surprise that hitting someone with a hammer in the face wasn’t against Dwarven law, then I read the explanation that they are in a middle chamber, not the inner chamber yet. Then I thought it would probably be funniest if, after the preparation to influence the council through extensive exploitation of the laws, the vampires overlooked something simple that was allowed, and could stop them. Like a hammer in the face. Explicitly cited as permissible under Dwarf Law by ruling of King Hammerface. Also known as Hammerface the Terrible Debater.

I think you mean "King Hammerface The Highly Appreciated by His Advisors And Most Esteemed by His Politcal Opponents Except those Who Live Far Away".

The problem with having to die heroically is that if you're too good a fighter, you'll never find someone that can kill you. "Ah ****, he died of a heartache, so he's going to hell..." "But he killed a HUNDRED men by himself!" "Nope, hell." Seems a bit unfair.

Yeah, it hit me, reading the comic that this look a lot like a species-wide, lighter and sillier take on the Slayer Cult.


The resemblances are so few that I doubt there's any link between the two (besides the common inspiration of the whole "die in battle" thing Vikings had going on), but I wonder if the Giant played Warhammer Fantasy.

[D.One]

I think you mean "King Hammerface The Highly Appreciated by His Advisors And Most Esteemed by His Politcal Opponents Except thsoe Who Live Far Away".

Also called "Your High and Mighty Pleasedonthitme Majesty".

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Even older; there are known uses of literally as an intensifier 50 years before Dickens was born, much less writing. This fight was lost literally centuries before any of us were born

The fight may be lost, but as long as any of us are still alive, it's not over.

Also, the day I lack the will to fight for lost causes is the day I lack the will to get out of bed in the morning.

We are all in a hopeless fight against entropy, against time, against the basic facts of existence, and against that seductive path of least resistance, and guess what? The fact that the game is rigged hasn't stopped us from trying to win, or trying to lose as well as possible (if the fight was lost so long ago, then it means people have been willing to keep up the fight for so many years). I count that a victory, if a very small one.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The fight may be lost, but as long as any of us are still alive, it's not over.

Also, the day I lack the will to fight for lost causes is the day I lack the will to get out of bed in the morning.

We are all in a hopeless fight against entropy, against time, against the basic facts of existence, and against that seductive path of least resistance, and guess what? The fact that the game is rigged hasn't stopped us from trying to win, or trying to lose as well as possible (if the fight was lost so long ago, then it means people have been willing to keep up the fight for so many years). I count that a victory, if a very small one.

Of all the hills to die on, prescriptivism seems an odd choice. Especially amongst English speakers.

Grey Wolf

[D.One]

Of all the hills to die on, prescriptivism seems an odd choice. Especially amongst English speakers.

Grey Wolf

I believe a dwarf would prefer to die under the Hills of Prescriptivism than over the Plains of Descriptivism...

[Ruck]

Also, given that she and the other bard are both wearing blue, both have brown hair, and both seem to have wooly/curly hair, I'm going to assume that they are siblings, especially as Sigdi refers to them as "you kids".

Their skin tones are different, so I'm not sure they are. They do both seem to be apprenticing under Janna (which is misspelled "Jenna" in this strip, unless I'm interpreting all of this wrong).