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    Default School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    Most material components in 3.x share a trio of unfortunate characteristics: they are completely free for all intents and purposes, they can be pulled from a spell component pouch as though it were a bottomless pocket of near-infinite variety, and they have no connection to the spell or magic system beyond goofy jokes. Many of the others are impractical to acquire or carry around, or are specified only by purchase price irrespective of market considerations. This replacement is intended to solve all of those problems in the core system.

    Components
    Verbal (V)
    A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a normal voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell with a verbal component that he or she tries to cast.

    Somatic (S)
    A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free and empty (or holding only a material or focus component) to provide a somatic component.

    Material Component (M)
    A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. These substances are usually quite valuable, and sometimes so valuable or hard to acquire they have no listed price. The most common of these is known as powdered arcana. They are not included in a new spell component pouch.

    Focus (F)
    A focus component is a prop of some sort, used to better control magical energy for certain spells. A focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. Foci are not included with a new spell component pouch (but see School Focus, below), and all foci have a non-negligible cost.

    School Focus (SF)
    A school focus component is a special type of focus that only works for a single school of arcane magic. Most arcane spells require the appropriate school focus to cast. Unless lost, stolen, or destroyed, school foci are included with spell component pouches. Some casters prefer to wield weapons (usually quarterstaffs) that include focus elements for all the schools, effectively merging multiple school foci.

    Divine Focus (DF)
    A divine focus component is a special type of focus, an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character’s faith. The divine focus for a druid or ranger is usually a sprig of holly or mistletoe.

    If the Components line includes F/DF or SF/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus or school focus component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).

    XP Cost (XP)
    Some powerful spells entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for casting a spell rather than keeping them and advancing a level. The XP are expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds.

    Tools and Skill Kits
    School Focus
    This small construction of special woods and metal junctions is needed to cast most arcane spells. It is also necessary for identifying most magical energies: Spellcraft checks to identify active spells, identify spells as they are cast, or properly draw a dimensional anchor diagram for binding (requiring an abjuration focus) take a -2 circumstance penalty without the appropriate focus. Many foci are shaped like flat ornamental knots, some like wands (although their construction is markedly different from normal wands, and they operate on different principles), some like orbs. Each school of arcane magic requires its own focus with a unique design (identifiable with a DC 11 Knowledge: Arcana or DC 6 Spellcraft check). Cost: 5 sp; weight: 2 oz.

    School Focus, Masterwork
    This focus serves the same purpose as a school focus (above), but its elaborate traceries, superior materials, and careful craftsmanship make it the perfect tool for identifying flows of magical energy, giving a +2 circumstance bonus on appropriate Spellcraft checks, but only those of the school of magic it's designed for. Cost: 25 gp; weight: 2 oz.

    Holy Symbol, Silver or Wooden
    A holy symbol focuses positive energy. A cleric or paladin uses it as the focus for his spells, for spell identification, and as a tool for turning undead. Each religion has its own holy symbol. Wooden holy symbols function as all-in-one school foci for the purpose of identifying spells and spell effects, while silver holy symbols function like masterwork versions of the same. Cost: 1 gp (wooden) or 50 gp (silver); weight: 1 lb.

    Holly and Mistletoe
    These plants can be gathered in many temperate forests, and remain useful for druidic or ranger spellcasting for at least six months after gathering under normal conditions. They can be used for Spellcraft checks in the same way as a wooden holy symbol. Cost: -; weight: -.

    Focus Staff
    This staff is designed less for combat (although it can still function as a quarterstaff in a pinch) and more to focus arcane energies of all schools; it contains separate sections for each school's focus, and shifting hands to make use of a different focus section is a free action that can be taken even when it's not your turn. Cost: 4 gp.

    Focus Staff, Masterwork
    Combining a well-made weapon with masterful arcane implement design, this is the perfect tool for identifying flows of magical energy of any school, just like a masterwork school focus. This quarterstaff functions like a regular focus staff otherwise, and is often used as the physical base for creating magic staffs. Cost: 800 gp.

    Spell Component Pouch
    An arcane spell component pouch comes with a school focus for each of the eight schools, as well as space to hold up to about 2 lb of other foci and material components. Its design allows retrieving contained foci and materials as a free action during spellcasting or to help identify magical energies, even when it's not your turn, but it can't hold anything more than a few inches across in any dimension. Cost: 5 gp, including 8 school foci; weight: 2 lbs.

    Spell Component Pouch, Empty
    This spell component pouch contains no school foci, but does have compartments for them; specialist wizards and sorcerers often use this to save a little money at low levels. It can hold a total of 3 lbs of focus and material components and functions in the usual way. Cost: 1 gp; weight: 1 lb.

    Special Substances and Items
    Powdered Arcana
    Despite the name, this substance is not actually condensed magic or anything similar, nor indeed useful only for arcane casters. Rather, it serves as a generally suitable (if expensive) additional power source and buffering agent for certain spells that would otherwise impose impossible strains on their casters. Spells with expensive material components usually require varying amounts of this coarse powder, listed in their entry.
    Its production requires precious metals, gems, rare herbs, strange organs from animals and magical beasts, high-precision grinders and carefully made vessels, special purification and combination techniques, and lengthy alchemical and magical rituals, with Craft (Alchemy) checks at DC 31. Cost: 400 gp/in3 (may be purchased in smaller quantities, such as ounces at 80 gp each or drams at 5 gp each); weight: 5 oz/in3.

    Wondrous Items
    Steadying School Focus
    This masterwork school focus, in addition to giving the usual circumstance bonus to Spellcraft checks, acts to magically steady and direct the user's mental processes, giving them a competence bonus to their Concentration check of +2, +5, +10, +15, or +20, depending on the strength of enchantment.

    Faint transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, attune focus; Price 425 gp (+2), 2525 gp (+5), 10,025 gp (+10), 22,525 gp (+15), or 40,025 gp (+20).

    Expansive Spell Component Pouch
    This spell component pouch is magically augmented to hold far more than the usual. The mouth is slightly larger to allow larger components to be retrieved. Regardless of what is put into the pouch, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the components carried, depend on the pouch’s type, as shown on the table below.
    Type Weight Contents Weight Limit Contents Volume Limit Market Price
    Type I 3 lb. 50 lb. 6 cu. ft. 600 gp
    Type II 5 lb. 100 lb. 14 cu. ft. 1,200 gp
    Type III 7 lb. 200 lb. 30 cu. ft. 1,775 gp
    Type IV 12 lb. 300 lb. 50 cu. ft. 2,400 gp
    Type V 15 lb. 400 lb. 70 cu. ft. 3,000 gp

    If the pouch is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the pouch ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If an expansive spell component pouch is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed (though probably somewhat disorganized), but the pouch must be put right before it can be used again.

    An expansive spell component pouch behaves like a bag of holding if put within a portable hole, and vice versa.

    Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest.

    Feats
    Eschew School Focus (formerly known as Eschew Materials)
    Prerequisite
    Arcane caster level 1st.

    Benefit
    You can cast any spell that has a school focus component and identify any spell or effect without needing the corresponding school focus. (The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.)

    Conversion Guide
    Most spells currently listed with negligible-cost (arcane) foci or material components are changed to use school foci. Here are some characteristics of material components or foci that should not be changed to using school foci:
    • Highly specific to the casting (plane shift's tuning forks [though common forks are readily available for nominal cost], simulacrum's sample, etc)
    • Extremely perishable (teleport through time's freshly-picked flower from untouched soil, Snowcasting)
    • Seriously questionable or illegal to possess (crushing fist of spite's severed Good-aligned humanoid cleric hand)
    • Rare to the point of being (nigh) unique (apocalypse from the sky's artifact)

    Additionally, most spells that currently use expensive material components are changed to use the volume (in cubic inches, ounces, or drams) of powdered arcana that would typically cost the amount originally listed (not a certain value in gp). Exceptions, if any, should follow at least one of these guidelines:
    • Closely tied to the spell's purpose and function (illusory script's ink, transformation's potion of bull's strength)
    • Already one or more whole gems or other objects (animate dead's onyx, refuge's trigger object)
    • Already specified in terms of weight, size, or some other factor than price (fire trap's half-pound of gold dust)
    Even components that meet one or all of these guidelines could be converted, though this is not necessary. Decisions on whether to convert a given spell's components should be made in advance of play, especially for exceptions that meet none of these guidelines.
    Examples: Magic mouth's material components (bit of honeycomb and 10 gp of jade dust) would be converted to 2 drams of powdered arcana (typical cost 10 gp, but potentially more or less depending on campaign circumstances). Symbol of sleep, instead of mercury and phosphorous and 1000 gp of diamond/opal dust, would be 2˝in3 of powdered arcana (typical cost 1000 gp).

    Anyway, anything I'm forgetting about? PEACH away!

    Spoiler: Changelog
    Show
    2018-11-27: Make it clearer how to convert expensive material components.
    2014-05-13: Druid divine focus is now explicitly listed in the Components section. Also a minor typo in a price is fixed.
    2014-05-05: Foci now explicitly play nicely with somatic components, just in case. Also, Eschew Materials is converted into Eschew School Focus. Tweaked verbal component wording and adjusted a few other things, as well as fixing links and formatting a bit. (Tables were fixed a while back.)
    2014-01-03: Assorted minor wording tweaks, action clarifications for focus use off-turn, and making foci act still more like skill tools for Spellcraft (including divine foci, for the first time). Added a bit more to the initial problem statement to include the additional fixes I've made since starting.
    2013-12-30: A few typo corrections and a little bit more clarification on conversion.
    2013-10-12: Expensive material components, reordering of rules sections, more conversion guidelines, and a reference to attune focus.
    2013-10-06: Adding option for empty SCP, fiddling with wording of F/M/SF component rules, etc.
    2013-10-04 round II: Guidelines for rare-but-technically-free material components/foci, a bit more on staffs. Reformatting conversion in general.
    2013-10-04: Orbs, wands, staffs can all be foci now. Staffs get to be all-in-one — no discount, sorry, but at least you get to look awesome.
    2013-10-03: Magical space-warping returns! But this time it costs extra.
    2013-09-28: First version: SF replace most M/F, SCP loses its magical space-warping, MW/magical SF versions
    Last edited by TuggyNE; 2018-11-28 at 01:05 AM. Reason: Make it clearer how to convert expensive material components
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    What are you doing about costly components? I'm tempted to just say that a given spell just requires components of X GP, instead of fiddling about with "this spell requires minotaur horns decorated in a Faberge style and dipped in molten gold, worth at least 1200gp".

    There's also a good design space for school foci that do unique things.

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    What are you doing about costly components? I'm tempted to just say that a given spell just requires components of X GP, instead of fiddling about with "this spell requires minotaur horns decorated in a Faberge style and dipped in molten gold, worth at least 1200gp".
    Heh. I don't feel as strongly about those, since even if they are kind of lame attempts at sympathetic magic, they at least have to be acquired, have a reasonable cost, weight, and size, and can be stolen or lost or whatever.

    I wouldn't mind trying to fix value to get rid of the odd "500 gp worth" stuff, but that's more of a economy fix.

    Although, it does occur to me that some spells (hmm, wow, maybe half of them in core) do have an unusually weak relationship with their components, and could be changed to something generic. Perhaps "X ounces of mixed gem dust and powdered precious metals", where an ounce of this has a customary pricing of say 1 gp (simplified, assuming a gp ~= $100 from various estimates, gold is around $800-$900, and the gems and preparation raise the price somewhat). That's kind of a lot to haul around though. Perhaps I can justify some sort of really astonishingly complicated and expensive production process that bumps it up to as much as 100 gp/oz. Or, hm, 80 gp/oz would be 5 gp/dram, which is maybe more sensible. (1 pp/dram would be awesome but that seems pretty much out of reach.)

    Also, of course, spell component pouch of holding. Adding to OP now, based on, well, bag of holding. There's a surprisingly large amount of storage required, even with relatively space-efficient components. BUT HEY it's not like spellcasters are hurting for cash.

    There's also a good design space for school foci that do unique things.
    Like an Abjuration focus that gives a bonus to dispelling or banishing, or a Transmutation focus that increases duration by 50%? Yeah, that's something to think about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Still thinking about possible ramifications of unified expensive material components. But for now, have another update, with more options for foci. Also, a picture (last panel, chiefly) of roughly how I imagine the default focus. Not sure how to describe it better than I have.
    Last edited by TuggyNE; 2014-11-05 at 01:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Personally, I categorise spell components into four general groups, based on two variables (2x2= 4 permutations)

    • Free/common: The components cost less than 1 gp, and are readily available in any environment.
    • Free/rare: The components cost less than 1 gp, but require some kind of quest to obtain, or are highly perishable (eg. snow, a freshly-picked flower, a tuning fork attuned to the harmonics of a specific demiplane, the footfall of a cat, tears of a unicorn, a lock of hair from the intended target of the spell)
    • Expensive/common: The components cost 1 gp or more, and are readily available in any environment (eg. 5000 gp worth of diamond dust).
    • Expensive/rare: The components cost 1 gp or more, but require some kind of quest to obtain, or are highly perishable (examples are hard to find in core).


    Free/common material components in my games are replaced by an attuned personal wand or staff. A caster can only have one attuned wand at a time, and if lost, it requires one day of downtime to attuned a new wand. Non-magical wands are available from most wizard supply stores, and cost 1 gp (it's just a lacquered stick after all, kind of like a giant chopstick).

    The "wand" can be a wand (magical or non-magical) or staff (magical or non-magical). Other implements can be added to this list by campaign setting specifics. A character can deliver touch spells using his wand, and holding the wand does not restrict the character from casting spells that require a somatic component.
    Last edited by Ashtagon; 2013-10-04 at 06:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Personally, I categorise spell components into four general groups, based on two variables (2x2= 4 permutations)

    • Free/common: The components cost less than 1 gp, and are readily available in any environment.
    • Free/rare: The components cost less than 1 gp, but require some kind of quest to obtain, or are highly perishable (eg. snow, a freshly-picked flower, a tuning fork attuned to the harmonics of a specific demiplane, the footfall of a cat, tears of a unicorn, a lock of hair from the intended target of the spell)
    • Expensive/common: The components cost 1 gp or more, and are readily available in any environment (eg. 5000 gp worth of diamond dust).
    • Expensive/rare: The components cost 1 gp or more, but require some kind of quest to obtain, or are highly perishable (examples are hard to find in core).
    Hmm. I don't see much real difference between 2 and 4; the limiting factor is not the cost, but the effort, and in theory you could find someone to supply you essentially any component at a sufficiently high price. (Even if they have to use quintessence to do so.) I did put in a brief note about that before, but I guess I'll expand upon the types of free/rare materials to guide conversion.

    By the way, is there a case where a cat footfall is actually required? Haven't seen that one.

    A character can deliver touch spells using his wand, and holding the wand does not restrict the character from casting spells that require a somatic component.
    I've made a note of that, to make sure it's clear that you can take a hand off as a free action for somatic components. Or hmm, maybe you perform the somatic component with the focus?

    Edit: Oh, forgot to mention! Your thread on fixing rope trick is what reminded me to add the other options for focus shapes. (Seems like a good plan, btw.)
    Last edited by TuggyNE; 2013-10-04 at 06:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    I don't think #4 in my list actually exists in D&D; I listed it more out of completeness. Regarding #2, the intention in terms of game design was, I feel, that they should be items that money can't (or at least shouldn't for story-telling purposes) buy at any price. Outside subzero temperatures, you simply won't find snow, freshly-plucked flowers are inherently time-sensitive, unicorns seldom cry on demand (and such tears obtained through torture might be useless for spell purposes), getting a tuning fork pitched just right for a specific demiplane might require actually visiting that plane first, and so on.
    Well, like I said, quintessence (and/or other high-ish level spells/powers) can solve most or all of those, even if you have to hire an adventurer to do the job. After all, that's usually how those spells show up, isn't it? Some NPC needs the PCs to get something, or tells them what they'll need, or whatever?

    Main point is, I guess, to identify things that could reasonably require substantial PC thought to solve, and leave those as material components. I'm considering adding a note that if there's any real doubt, to err on the side of leaving it as is (M).

    It originally appeared in Norse legends, iirc. I'm not aware of it appearing in D&D.
    I've heard of it in connection with OSR item crafting, but wondered if there was a 3.x spell that used it.

    Yeah, my intent was that you are performing the somatic component with the hand holding the implement.
    Might make V,S and V,S,M spells indistinguishable in practical use, although not sure how often that's really important. (Prison escapes, I guess? Fighting a disarm/sunder/sleight of hand foe?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Technically, all spells with M components have S components anyway, since you have to pick it out of your spell component pouch. Strictly speaking, that's happening before the spell is cast though, not as part of the casting.

    Apparently, there are about 2 dozen spells (notably including darkness, displacement, light, and suggestion) that have material components but no somatic components.

    Of the core spells, I'd say these should be amended to be both S and AF (arcane focus) for components. The exception to this is teleportation circle, whose material component is essentially 1000 gp of gem dust laid out over the site of the circle. This is an expensive/common material component. While laying it out isn't part of the spell, it is inherently somatic action (albeit one that an associate could complete instead of the caster).

    ----

    Let's say the material component is "unicorn tears, freely given". No amount of money could buy that, nor could torture obtain them.
    Last edited by Ashtagon; 2013-10-04 at 07:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Technically, all spells with M components have S components anyway, since you have to pick it out of your spell component pouch. Strictly speaking, that's happening before the spell is cast though, not as part of the casting.
    Not quite; unlike regular S, retrieving M/accessing SF* does not suffer an ASF chance under any circumstances. (And, of course, any S spells without M/SF are useful as noted if for some reason you don't have your SCP.)

    *I figured School Focus (SF) was less confusing than Arcane Focus, since there are other arcane foci, and since AF looks a lot like ASF.

    Let's say the material component is "unicorn tears, freely given". No amount of money could buy that, nor could torture obtain them.
    You don't think the unicorns would ever be willing to sell those? (Me, if my tears had a going rate of $75/drop, I'd want some of that action.) Or if they're willing to give them to someone, that person can sell them. At least once. Of course, how much they'd sell them for is essentially wide-open, just whatever the market will bear. So not really a good candidate for replacing with SF.

    This is, however, a good example of why it's useful to have this rule, since there's room for disagreement between reasonable people about the chance of having it in a bog-standard non-magically magic SCP, and some DMs or players would expect one or the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Took me a while to realise that ASF is arcane spell failure. Since the practical effect is that no one actually plays armoured wizards who might somehow suffer arcane spell failure, the rule ends up un-used. People tend to either play as unarmoured wizards, use feats to remove the risk, use special materials to reduce the ASF chance to nothing, or play variant arcane caster classes that don't have the risk.
    Fair enough. But the acronym does show up, so, y'know….

    And the freely-given clause would mean that if those tears had been sold even once somewhere down the line, they would lose their magical properties.
    Oh is that what that clause was for. I thought you meant "not extorted or stolen or mind-controlled". Specifying air-tight and understandable reasons for this stuff can be hard!
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Arcane Foci, or: Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH

    Added option for empty SCP (focused specialists don't need those extra three foci, after all), fiddled with wording of F/M/SF component rules, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    More new stuff: Expensive material components, reordering of rules sections, more conversion guidelines, and a reference to attune focus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
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    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    Leetle bit more typo correction, and another sentence or so under conversions. Nothing major.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    Wow, I keep coming up with tweaks. This time it's action clarifications for focus use off-turn, making foci act still more like skill tools for Spellcraft (including divine foci, for the first time), and adding a bit more to the initial problem statement to include the additional fixes I've made since starting. Also a few miscellaneous wording adjustments to smooth out minor things.

    Relatedly: does the SRD include the text for what foci druids and rangers use, or it is just assumed that we know they use holly and mistletoe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    Once more, with feeling. Tweaked the interaction of somatic components with foci/materials, added a replacement for Eschew Materials, and fiddled with some more wording.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    Question: Why not a certain gp cost in powdered arcana? It would be easier if you put a weight in ounces or grams for powdered arcana (say 1 pinch for 1gp)

    Also what is the need to divide focuses into school focuses? Clerics don't use Domain focuses, so it is odd to use a different focus for each school.
    Then the school/subschool specialized ones are the ones that grant bonuses (such as the special holy symbols in Complete Divine).

    Another question: Why not allow all the cost-specific material components be substituted. Seeing how they are consumed on use one could say that (if shape is of concern) arcane energies hold the dust into a suitable shape for the duration of the spell or somesuch. One could still use the 'traditional' ingredients; and so you have a bit of world flavor. PCs will mostly use arcana, but they might find folks that used onyx to make the zombies.

    (on a side note: why not school specific powered arcana? if the focuses are school determined...)
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    Default Re: School Foci, or Annihilating Material Components (3.PF magic system tweak, PEACH)

    Thanks for the PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    Question: Why not a certain gp cost in powdered arcana? It would be easier if you put a weight in ounces or grams for powdered arcana (say 1 pinch for 1gp)
    There is. One ounce costs 80 gp.

    Also what is the need to divide focuses into school focuses? Clerics don't use Domain focuses, so it is odd to use a different focus for each school.
    Most Cleric spells have no domain. All arcane spells have a school, and in fact, for Wizards (and to a lesser extent all casters; see also Spell Focus), spell schools are a big deal. This just strengthens that, and I find the idea of special focus elements designed specifically for Conjuration or Evocation to be kinda cool.

    Also, obviously, the list of domains is well-nigh endless, so requiring a domain focus would be weird; there would be dozens if not hundreds to pick from, instead of exactly eight.

    Then the school/subschool specialized ones are the ones that grant bonuses (such as the special holy symbols in Complete Divine).
    Yes?

    Another question: Why not allow all the cost-specific material components be substituted. Seeing how they are consumed on use one could say that (if shape is of concern) arcane energies hold the dust into a suitable shape for the duration of the spell or somesuch. One could still use the 'traditional' ingredients; and so you have a bit of world flavor. PCs will mostly use arcana, but they might find folks that used onyx to make the zombies.
    You could. I don't see any particular reason to do so, because onyx seems to work "well enough", but if you want there's certainly nothing stopping you from including that.

    The conversion guidelines are there to say "these spells already function all right, so there's no pressing need to change them".

    (on a side note: why not school specific powered arcana? if the focuses are school determined...)
    Powdered arcana is not actually arcane-specific, and is used for divine spells just the same, so it would be odd for it to be school-specific. There's also no difference I can readily imagine between methods of buffering/powering extra spell energy that would break down along the lines of different schools, so leaving it all the same seems reasonable enough.

    It's not a bad idea, I just never thought of it and it doesn't really seem necessary.

    If you do do that, breaking down powdered arcana into other categories (perhaps quality, spell descriptors, or other such things) would also seem sensible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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