Use-activated item of cure light wounds for 2000gp?

[Eladrinblade]

Am I missing something?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Am I missing something?

Besides the fact a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750) will last most camapaigns. And when it doesn't, a second will and still be cheaper.

[AvatarVecna]

Am I missing something?

A DM both metaphorically and literally throwing the book at you.

To be clear, tricks like this are what makes WBLmancy and custom items so reviled by sane DMs. You think unlimited healing is bad, how about trade that CLW for the Mount spell and have an armies worth of horses at your beck and call. It can get pretty broken, if you abuse it (if you go high enough epic, you can do this with Time Stop and you've basically taken over unless your DM is playing with one of the suggested epic houserules).

[Troacctid]

No such item exists in the rules. If you were creating a custom item with that effect, you'd have to estimate its value relative to other items with a similar function, taking into account its relative desirability and the appropriate level at which you'd want a PC to obtain it.

[Beheld]

Am I missing something?

Why Cure Light Wounds when Cure Minor Wounds exist?

But yes, that is one of the many many many many reasons that the item creation guidelines are guidelines, and specifically say that you have to measure items against existing items and only use the price tables if nothing else exists.

[Half-Wizard]

It can get pretty broken, if you abuse it (if you go high enough epic, you can do this with Time Stop and you've basically taken over unless your DM is playing with one of the suggested epic houserules).

What houserule?

[AvatarVecna]

What houserule?

There's a houserule presented in the epic level handbook that suggests that DMs give the Time Stop spell SR Yes in epic games. Mind you, bypassing most forms of SR is childsplay anyway, and Time Stop having SR Yes doesnt really fit Time Stops fluff, but the fact remains that it adds an actual way to be unaffected by Time stop, meaning a lvl 9001 overdeity will go from being always effected by Time stop to never being affected by it.

[Eladrinblade]

What would be a decent price for a "Rod of Healing" (use-activated cure light wounds)?

[AvatarVecna]

What would be a decent price for a "Rod of Healing" (use-activated cure light wounds)?

As a DM, I'd be perfectly fine with charging you 2000 for it...but because you whipped that cheese out, I'd be using it for the bad guys as well. Realistically? Despite only replicating a 1st lvl spell, this is a game-changing item, especially if you play on a larger scale. Do you know what kind of budget the military will be working with? Do you know how much money they would pour into this if it was available, even if it was extremely expensive? If I was to have something like this in a more realistic campaign, I'd ban the low-level version and make a higher level version a full-blown artifact: Panacea Gloves, capable of casting Mass Heal at-will as well as some other benefits. Again, full blown artifact.

[DarkSoul]

What would be a decent price for a "Rod of Healing" (use-activated cure light wounds)?

Pearly white spindle ioun stone regenerates 1 hit point per hour. Statistically, this rod regenerates (5.5 average for 1d8+1 * 10 rounds per minute * 60 minutes per hour) 3,300 hit points per hour.

The Ioun stone costs 20,000 gold. This should be 200,000 gold at least, if not very, very epic.

That being said, it really is just infinite cure lights at CL 1, as standard actions. I'd price it somewhere in the 12-16k range.

[Jormengand]

Honestly, I don't mind my party having infinite out-of-combat healing in less gritty games anyway a lot of the time, but the custom item rules - which also brought us the aptly-named Staff of Instant Death (Not that aptly named, given that the staff itself was mundane and just served as a pointing rod for the wondrous item stuck on the end of it that constantly spewed infinite dice of flaming freezing electric acidic death at anything you pointed it at) - are not the way to price it.

[Troacctid]

The DMG's guidelines for custom magic items would put it at 4000 gp, which seems reasonable to me. The closest comparison is probably a big pile of wands. How many charges do you need before they effectively become unlimited? I think five or six wands' worth sounds about right.

Pearly white spindle ioun stone regenerates 1 hit point per hour. Statistically, this rod regenerates (5.5 average for 1d8+1 * 10 rounds per minute * 60 minutes per hour) 3,300 hit points per hour.

The Ioun stone costs 20,000 gold. This should be 200,000 gold at least, if not very, very epic.

The pearly white spindle ioun stone is also a junk item that nobody would ever buy, so it's a pretty bad comparison.

[DarkSoul]

Agreed, thus the post edit just now. It's one of those corner cases like Boots of Expeditious Retreat. It's really, REALLY good for its cost, so you have to raise the cost quite a bit to make up for the quality of the item.

[Magesmiley]

It would really depend on some other factors. Are you willing to limit the number of used per day? Increase the time to use it (full round, minute, 10 minutes)?

There's also a point where your actions are more valuable than a CLW, even if you can do it every level. An item like this is more valuable to low-level characters in-combat than it is higher-level ones.

Assuming you want to keep it 1 action, usable at will...

Myself, 20,000-30,000 would put it in the range where I'd be ok with it. At that cost, a reusable out of combat, "we're healed" effect is reasonable. And at that cost, the characters should be at a level where using it in combat is not a good gambit from an action standpoint.

[Ravens_cry]

Am I missing something?

Yes, the table's formula on costs, especially for Wondrous Items, is a suggestion and general guideline for DM to base new items on. It's explicitly not set in stone:

Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staffs follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls.

[Cruiser1]

Besides the fact a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750) will last most camapaigns.

It's prudent for DM's to review custom magic items to avoid imbalance in their campaign. However, free healing isn't that overpowered, especially at higher levels. Healing 1d8+1 hp per round is around fast healing 5, which is nice but won't help you against serious damage. Even epic army versions such as items or autoresetting traps of Mass Heal won't do much, since the dangers at that level take away 100's of hp at once, or do nasty things other than hp damage.

Pearly white spindle ioun stone regenerates 1 hit point per hour. The Ioun stone costs 20,000 gold.

Pearly white spindle ioun stone also says, "Regeneration from the pearly white ioun stone works like a ring of regeneration." Therefore it provides more than just healing, because it regenerates severed limbs and such like the ring and the 7th level spell. An item that only heals 1 hp per hour, without also providing regeneration, would be much cheaper.

[Telonius]

Oh, they can exist all right. That's what the Interfaith Clerical Council was set up to prevent. They have Divinations set up all across the material plane that will alert an elite squad of Level-20 Clerics the second that someone even thinks about making one. If that kind of an item were widely available, it would completely break the stranglehold they have on the healing item market, and that's something no deity would allow.

[zergling.exe]

Oh, they can exist all right. That's what the Interfaith Clerical Council was set up to prevent. They have Divinations set up all across the material plane that will alert an elite squad of Level-20 Clerics the second that someone even thinks about making one. If that kind of an item were widely available, it would completely break the stranglehold they have on the healing item market, and that's something no deity would allow.

So if you make it on the Negative Energy Plane...

[nedz]

Am I missing something?

I'll raise you a Sword of (Use activated) True Strike for about the same price.

Yeah - the item creation rules are silly sometimes.

[MisterKaws]

There's a houserule presented in the epic level handbook that suggests that DMs give the Time Stop spell SR Yes in epic games. Mind you, bypassing most forms of SR is childsplay anyway, and Time Stop having SR Yes doesnt really fit Time Stops fluff, but the fact remains that it adds an actual way to be unaffected by Time stop, meaning a lvl 9001 overdeity will go from being always effected by Time stop to never being affected by it.

Deities with enough power to go against epics have a precognition of at least two weeks, so they are supposed to be played as metagame'd as possible, allowing them to be at least 9001 times more prepared than the batman Wizard is at any given time.

[Troacctid]

I'll raise you a Sword of (Use activated) True Strike for about the same price.

Yeah - the item creation rules are silly sometimes.

Use-activated items use the same activation time as the original spell, so 2000 gp for use-activated True Strike seems pretty reasonable to me.

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

Quickened True Strike is pretty powerful, but it's also a 5th level spell, so it's a lot more expensive--the guidelines put it at 90,000 gp at the minimum caster level. Probably still underpriced, because +20 is a lot, but at least you're not talking crazy talk.

(Continuous True Strike, of course, is actually overpriced at 8000 gp, which I think is more than most people would reasonably expect to pay for a one-shot effect.)

[nedz]

Use-activated items use the same activation time as the original spell, so 2000 gp for use-activated True Strike seems pretty reasonable to me.

No, that isn't actually true.

The rules are a little vague though.

[Troacctid]

No, that isn't actually true.

The rules are a little vague though.

You missed a relevant rule a couple sections up.

However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

Custom magic items don't have an item description to override the general rule. I mean, unless you write one, but if you deviate from the usual rules, you're probably deviating from the pricing guidelines as well.

Rules Compendium also divided use-activated items up into continuously functioning items (no action), manipulation activation (depends on the item), and mental activation (same activation time as the spell).

[nedz]

Specific trumps general

This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Also,

Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.

[Troacctid]

"Unless stated otherwise"

The other rule states otherwise in the case of use-activated items that duplicate a spell.

[Necroticplague]

Quickened True Strike is pretty powerful, but it's also a 5th level spell, so it's a lot more expensive--the guidelines put it at 90,000 gp at the minimum caster level. Probably still underpriced, because +20 is a lot, but at least you're not talking crazy talk.

(Continuous True Strike, of course, is actually overpriced at 8000 gp, which I think is more than most people would reasonably expect to pay for a one-shot effect.)

Actually, Quickened True Strike is only a level 1 spell.

[Troacctid]

Actually, Quickened True Strike is only a level 1 spell.

It's treated as a 5th level spell for pricing magic items that use it.

[YossarianLives]

To be clear, tricks like this are what makes WBLmancy and custom items so reviled by sane DMs. You think unlimited healing is bad, how about trade that CLW for the Mount spell and have an armies worth of horses at your beck and call. It can get pretty broken, if you abuse it (if you go high enough epic, you can do this with Time Stop and you've basically taken over unless your DM is playing with one of the suggested epic houserules).

I've seen horsemancers absolutely shred campaigns. It gets worse once you unlock royal procession.

[CharonsHelper]

Use-activated items use the same activation time as the original spell, so 2000 gp for use-activated True Strike seems pretty reasonable to me.

Even if it does take a standard action to activate (not going to get into the argument as I don't touch the custom magic item rules with a 39.5 foot pole) you aren't trying very hard if you don't realize how easy that would be to abuse.

For normal attacks it'd be borderline too good against anything with good defenses, especially if they had concealment. (Maybe not game-breaking, but definitely game shifting.)

For attack roll based maneuvers like sunder it'd be stupidly broken. Maxxed Power Attack and practically an auto-win on sundering with an adamantine weapon anyone? Virtually anything with less than hardness 20 would be instantly destroyed.

[Lightlawbliss]

I've seen horsemancers absolutely shred campaigns. It gets worse once you unlock royal procession.

They don't shred campaigns, they trample them. (sorry, I had to)

Also, an army of untrained light horses has some rather big weaknesses that the clever DM can take advantage of.

Back on topic: I have no problem with my players having unlimited out of combat healing, it greatly reduced how much I have to worry about them running out of resources so I can hit them harder. :) If I really want them to not heal to full between fights, not giving them the means isn't the way. Giving them a reason to not stand there for multiple minutes healing is the way (even just telling the high listen check character(s) that they hear stuff being moved around in the next room can give them a sense of urgency).