[3.5] "Tell me what has more meaning than your own strength!"

[Xefas]

Okay, fine, you got me, I'll admit that I may have entertained delusions of supplanting the "mythos paladin" idea with my thinly-veiled Solar-inspired whatchamajigger.

Do it!

Finally, I have finished my 2-by-4 picture for the Mythos Summoner (Binder, whatever); the Seneschal!

If you can find a better thread title than "I've got friends on the other side...", I will be duly impressed.

[vasharanpaladin]

Finally, I have finished my 2-by-4 picture for the Mythos Summoner (Binder, whatever); the Seneschal!

Oi, size it down, these banners should be 1000x500 pixels. 250x250 per image.

EDIT: I suggest "Amidamaru, integrate!" if it matters.

[Adam1949]

If you can find a better thread title than "I've got friends on the other side...", I will be duly impressed.

Well, I was gonna go with either that or "You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?" I think the first is better for the class, though.

Oi, size it down, these banners should be 1000x500 pixels. 250x250 per image.

Huh, all of them were 250-by-250 when I threw it into the creator. It must've gotten bigger when it spit it back out. Oh well, fixed, now with 16.66666~% less bloat.

EDIT: Internet points to anyone who knows all 8 of them without looking them up!

[Network]

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Wait! No ninja? How could you!

I can recognize some of them, such as the two on the lower right side, but I have not even a clue for half of them. Too bad I don't collect internets.

[Primal Fury]

But the next thing I make will probably have nothing to do with it (I'm thinking Mythic Lycanthropes).

How exactly is this going to work? Because the first thing that came to mind is the 5 forms of the Uratha and Garou (from the White Wolf Werewolf games).

[Xefas]

EDIT: Internet points to anyone who knows all 8 of them without looking them up!

I know at least 4!

I can recognize some of them, such as the two on the lower right side, but I have not even a clue for half of them. Too bad I don't collect internets.

Let Keith David sing you a song.

How exactly is this going to work? Because the first thing that came to mind is the 5 forms of the Uratha and Garou (from the White Wolf Werewolf games).

You take some bond you have with nature, and subsume it into your legend. This allows you to subjugate and devour a lycanthropic curse that has hold of you, but your 'spirit animal' in that case has to be the one tied to the lycanthropy you had. Otherwise, you just pick a particular 'spirit animal' that dictates the aesthetics of your shapeshifting Mythos. Olethrofices that turn into half-jackals and Kathodos' that transform into half-red-pandas. That sort of thing.

edit:

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[Network]

Let Keith David sing you a song.

Screw me! I knew I should've watched that movie.

Xefas, if you are interested in Mythos prestige classes, I have one here that works with the existing base classes. I'm not sure if I should ask it in another thread (or by PM), but I'd appreciate your feedback.

[Xefas]

Xefas, if you are interested in Mythos prestige classes, I have one here that works with the existing base classes. I'm not sure if I should ask it in another thread (or by PM), but I'd appreciate your feedback.

A prestige class that turns the Teramach into an undead?



But only just.

I put a link to it in the first post for the Teramach. I know it's accessible to the others, but I felt it was the most convenient place. The two tweaks that come to me off the top of my head is that Cold Hearted Hatred of Life and Deathly Body of Uttercold could use a tiny bit more power, and that the Heart Freezing Atrocity Void class feature should only offer a bonus Exceptional Mythos if the character already has it.

Other than that, pretty awesome. I'm still mulling over whether I think prestige classes like this should lose a level of Mythos progression at first level or not. Part of me dislikes the idea of weakening characters that are purposefully intended to be high-tier, but the other part of me doesn't want taking a prestige class to be a no-brainer for Mythos characters, as it is for spellcasters. Hmmmm.

[Network]

A prestige class that turns the Teramach into an undead?

My point of thought was hate > cold > uttercold > negative energy > undead, and I quite liked the idea of an person who feels so much hate that it literally maintain him into a supernatural existence, so I decided I'd let that exception slip through (instead of, say, make the character weaker by leveling up). Same reason why I used a Mythos usually reserved for human characters.

I'll see how I can improve the two Mythos. I'm open to suggestions. I'll make the other change you suggested.

In the case of the Uttercold Retributor, there are drawbacks to taking it. The chassis is slightly below the base classes, and you don't gain more Excellencies. This is a small difference, but still noticeable.

[Xefas]

I was working on the Bellator today, and finally got around to drawing a Tarquin. So here is the new and improved roster...

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...along with two Mythos inspired by the newcomers.

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Empty-Handed Pugilist's Knack
Prerequisite: -

Though Bellators are most known for their deadliness with blade, bludgeon, or spear, some find wisdom in picking up a trick here and there from those monks, pugilists, and street brawlers that live and die by the swiftness of their bare hands.

You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and you may apply the fifth level benefit of your Equipment Mastery class feature to unarmed attacks.

Basic
Arrow-Catching Wits: You gain Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows as bonus feats. While wielding a two-handed weapon, you may release your grip on the weapon, utilize these feats, and place your hand back on your weapon with such dexterity that it requires no action or impediment to do so. Similarly, you may utilize these feats with a hand that is equipped with a shield smaller than a Tower Shield.

Giant-Foiling Contortion: You gain Clever Wrestling (CW) and Cunning Sidestep (Drac) as bonus feats. If your Dexterity score is higher than the Dexterity of the creature targetting you, double the bonuses granted by these feats.

Humiliating Heel-Sweep: You gain Dodge and Defensive Throw (CW) as bonus feats. When you attempt to trip a target with Defensive Throw, they may not react to counter-trip you if you fail.

I Punch Them In The Face: You gain Stunning Fist and Extra Stunning (CW) as bonus feats. You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for the purposes of calculating the saving throw DC of your Stunning Fist feat.

Advanced
Impressive Feat Abundance: You gain one Basic manifestation of this Mythos that you do not already possess.

Iron Stomach Development
Prerequisite: 1 rank in the Spellcraft skill, Must have quaffed at least one potion, and been poisoned at least once.

You gain a +4 competence bonus on saving throws against Poison. This becomes Immunity to Poison while you are actively benefiting from a potion.

When you drink a potion that heals damage to your hit points, you heal an additional (greater of your Strength modifier or your character level) points. When you drink a potion that does not heal damage to your hit points, but has an ongoing duration of 1 hour or less, double the duration. If you are poisoned when you drink a beneficial potion, you may make a new Fortitude save against the poison to shrug it off, and prevent further detriment.

Advanced
Tankard-Draining Alacrity: Once per round, you may retrieve a potion, or similarly sized drink, and quaff it as part of the same standard action. At 7th level, you may instead utilize a move action. At 14th level, you may use a free action.

The Stomach Knows: When you drink something, you are automatically aware of all of its effects, including the spell(s) replicated by a potion, and the type, DC, and secondary damage of a poison. By spending a full-round action to investigate a vial of liquid, you may discern if it is a potion or poison that you have previously imbibed and, if so, what its effects are.

Savor The Flavor: You may drink half of a potion, recieving half of its normal effects if its duration is instantaneous, or recieving its effects for half the duration if it has a longer duration. The other half will be useless to anyone without a similar ability.

Buzzed On Black Widows: You gain Poison Healer as a bonus feat.

[Primal Fury]

You take some bond you have with nature, and subsume it into your legend. This allows you to subjugate and devour a lycanthropic curse that has hold of you, but your 'spirit animal' in that case has to be the one tied to the lycanthropy you had. Otherwise, you just pick a particular 'spirit animal' that dictates the aesthetics of your shapeshifting Mythos. Olethrofices that turn into half-jackals and Kathodos' that transform into half-red-pandas. That sort of thing.

Very intereseting... By the way, which Hellscream is that for the Bellator?

[Fredaintdead]

Very intereseting... By the way, which Hellscream is that for the Bellator?

That's not a Hellscream dude. It's Varok Saurfang.

[Adam1949]

I know at least 4!

Awesome, which ones?

Anyway, the first of the Seneschal's Mythos. I'm not sure if it's too strong.

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Bound-Ghast Unleashing
Prerequisite: -

The weakest wardens of the ancient times are, ironically, the most well-known; too frail to gather much soulstuff, they hid in the space between planes, biding their time and offering their services to anyone desperate enough to summon them. A Seneschal is no mere mortal, however, and knows ways on how to bind them to his service.

You gain Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, and Expel Vestige as bonus feats (ToM).

Advanced
Will-Bending Demands: You gain Ignore Special Requirements and Skilled Pact Making as bonus feats (ToM).

[Xefas]

That's not a Hellscream dude. It's Varok Saurfang.

They say that the Empire built the Death Star to harness the power of Saurfang's cleave, but they were only able to emulate enough of it to obliterate planets.

The only reason Saurfang can't kill one of the Chaos Gods is because his cleave would kill two.

We'll never know if Saurfang can dodge the Omega Beam, because Darkseid refuses to get within cleave range to use it.

The only item more powerful than Thanos' Infinity Gauntlet is a kindly worded letter to Saurfang asking him to cleave something for you.

It's rumored that Saurfang's Overpower is more devastating than his cleave, but fortunately his cleave has never missed.

Awesome, which ones?

The (unnamed?) protagonist from Persona 3, the creepy ass mask salesman from Majora's Mask, Dr. Facilier, and the top middle left is a depiction of the Faust legend if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, the first of the Seneschal's Mythos. I'm not sure if it's too strong.

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Bound-Ghast Unleashing
Prerequisite: -

The weakest wardens of the ancient times are, ironically, the most well-known; too frail to gather much soulstuff, they hid in the space between planes, biding their time and offering their services to anyone desperate enough to summon them. A Seneschal is no mere mortal, however, and knows ways on how to bind them to his service.

You gain Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, and Expel Vestige as bonus feats (ToM).

Advanced
Will-Bending Demands: You gain Ignore Special Requirements and Skilled Pact Making as bonus feats (ToM).

Will comment later when I can pop open my Tome of Magic. I'm about to finish up, and eat, dinner.

[Fredaintdead]

They say that the Empire built the Death Star to harness the power of Saurfang's cleave, but they were only able to emulate enough of it to obliterate planets.

The only reason Saurfang can't kill one of the Chaos Gods is because his cleave would kill two.

We'll never know if Saurfang can dodge the Omega Beam, because Darkseid refuses to get within cleave range to use it.

The only item more powerful than Thanos' Infinity Gauntlet is a kindly worded letter to Saurfang asking him to cleave something for you.

It's rumored that Saurfang's Overpower is more devastating than his cleave, but fortunately his cleave has never missed.

He is he who watches they. The fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare to defy the Warchief, and you dare to face his merciless judgement.
Though I honestly rank him as the Second Coolest Orc Ever, because of his brother Broxigar.

[Primal Fury]

Oooooooh. That guy.

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Bound-Ghast Unleashing
Prerequisite: -

The weakest wardens of the ancient times are, ironically, the most well-known; too frail to gather much soulstuff, they hid in the space between planes, biding their time and offering their services to anyone desperate enough to summon them. A Seneschal is no mere mortal, however, and knows ways on how to bind them to his service.

You gain Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, and Expel Vestige as bonus feats (ToM).

Advanced
Will-Bending Demands: You gain Ignore Special Requirements and Skilled Pact Making as bonus feats (ToM).

I'm confused... Why not just say "Hey, you can bind vestiges now" instead of giving them the bonus feat?

[Adam1949]

The (unnamed?) protagonist from Persona 3, the creepy ass mask salesman from Majora's Mask, Dr. Facilier, and the top middle left is a depiction of the Faust legend if I'm not mistaken.

Excellent work. As for the other four, in regards to the upper left corner, I was originally going to call the class Heritor.

Will comment later when I can pop open my Tome of Magic. I'm about to finish up, and eat, dinner.

I eagerly await the master's ideas!

I'm confused... Why not just say "Hey, you can bind vestiges now" instead of giving them the bonus feat?

That's an excellent point. I just wasn't sure if giving them full Binder advancement was exactly balanced as a basic Mythos.

[Primal Fury]

That's an excellent point. I just wasn't sure if giving them full Binder advancement was exactly balanced as a basic Mythos.

Not full Binder advancement exactly. I was doing something similar before it got rolled into something else and changed entirely. The first Mythos granted access to first level vestiges, while Basic and Advanced upgrades and higher level Mythos added more levels and Vestiges.

[Amechra]

Check out my Husk for a way you can do it; the Totem Spirit Package grants a bound Vestige (second post).

[VoodooPaladin]

Well, since everyone's doing it...

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Not sure what to call it. At the moment I'm thinking "Igamono".

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Yeah, I only got three for sure. Props for using Adelle by the way; every time I see someone reference that game, it makes me feel better about having sunk 60-plus hours into it.

[GreaserFish]

EDIT: For posterity's sake, here's the template:

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Speaking of Batman, I had an idea for the Heirodule that placed an emphasis on always having a cause to champion. Plus, in addition to the guilt system, I was thinking of a conviction system, to sort of pseudo-oppose the guilt but not exactly be a negative/positive relationship.
I'm thinking of calling it the Aethenos if I actually homebrew it up.

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Xefas, how do you usually come up with the names for your mythos classes?

[Primal Fury]

Should we just make a new thread for discussing Mythos classes?

[Amechra]

I think you should just write them instead of talking about writing them, but that would be productive.

But yeah, a new thread might be a good idea.

[VoodooPaladin]

I actually consider it cheating to ever include Batman in the banner. Batman is such an intensely human character (and has had an absurd number of influences and writers with only tangentially-related artistic visions) that it's quicker to count the classes that he couldn't be. I've seen him described as a monk, fighter, wizard, cleric, ACF paladin, rogue, adept, and an expert who breaks WBL at different times. I was planning to remove him from the Igamono banner before I finished it.

Although, the picture of Batman that you got is way better than mine.

[Xefas]

Props for using Adelle by the way; every time I see someone reference that game, it makes me feel better about having sunk 60-plus hours into it.

I knew I recognized her, but I couldn't remember where. As big a fan of tactics games as I am, I never got around to playing Tactics Advance 2 to any great degree.

Xefas, how do you usually come up with the names for your mythos classes?

I find Greek words that sound cool and are vaguely related to the class.

I eagerly await the master's ideas!

Entreating On The Altar of Naught
Prerequisite: -

Those nothings and no ones that languish between bleak emptiness and the shade of death, they clamor for one hint of life or light to slake the cold lust of their vapid unexistence. So it is that when a Seneschal beckons them by name, they slaver at the echo and the blood offered without complaint, easily called and easily subjugated.

You gain the Soul Binding class feature of a Binder (ToM pg10). This is a Supernatural ability. Your effective binder level for the purposes of determining the highest level of Vestige you may bind and how many Vestiges you may have bound at once is 1 (this stacks with other sources of binding, such as the Binder class itself), and your effective binder level for all other purposes is equal to your class level (this does not stack with other sources of binding level).

Unlike a Binder, you are not required to draw a seal to summon forth a Vestige. You need only a symbolic altar, typically a smooth stone of some kind, which you mark with your own blood, and then call the name of the Vestige three times (withdrawing the stone from a pouch is typically a move action, and if you are already bleeding, coating the stone in your blood may be done as part of the same action, otherwise drawing blood from yourself is another move action). At your command, the Vestige's image appears and, unlike with a Binder's ritual, is aware of its surroundings and capable of observing and speaking with other creatures than yourself.

Bargaining and binding proceed as normal afterward.

Advanced
Selenite Bishop Presumption: You gain Improved Binding as a bonus feat. When you attempt a rushed binding check on a Vestige lower level than the maximum level of Vestige you may bind, you do not take the -10 penalty on your binding check, demanding its obedience rather than requesting it.

Discarding Broken Phantoms: You gain Expel Vestige as a bonus feat. When you use your Expel Vestige feat, you need not draw a seal and perform the summoning processes to expel the spirit inside you. Instead, you may use a full-round action to disgorge them as a roiling crystalline nimbus from your eyes and mouth, which gradually fades into nothing in the following moments.

[Adam1949]

The entire Mythos above

How, I ask. HOW. That's good, really good. And more importantly, it's a lot more fun and flavorful. How does one go about with Mythos-making?

[3WhiteFox3]

I decided to take some initiative and made a new discussion thread for people with ideas for Mythos Classes to avoid derailing this thread any further. Hopefully I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here, but it was mentioned, so I thought I'd do it. I myself had an idea, but I'm currently busy on trying to make sure it's not just a copy of the Olethrofex. I'll post my basic ideas in the new thread.

[Xefas]

How, I ask. HOW. That's good, really good. And more importantly, it's a lot more fun and flavorful. How does one go about with Mythos-making?

I've put my answer in the thread so graciously provided by 3WhiteFox3. All the off-topic discussions can continue there.

[Amechra]

My issues with the Mythos Reth Dekala:

Extraordinary Mythos:

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Burning Spirit-Beacon Ignition: OK, so, as a Move action, you can get +3 untyped bonus to every ability score and a 200' radius of illumination? OK...

What can I say? First of all, Aubade Magnificence Externalization shouldn't give you a +6 to every ability score at level 2. As a move action. I'd say that Burning Spirit-Beacon Ignition should be toned down a bit in general.

Now, I know, there is a really small threshold of damage you can take before you lose the bonus (At level one, someone with a base Con of 15 could only take 5 damage before losing the bonus; at second level, this would go up to 6 damage.) However, I see the main utility of this Mythos is in out-of-combat stuff. It's a +6 to all your ability scores, for Nodens' sake! That's 200,000 GP worth of magic items right there. That this stacks with.

Consider the fact that a +4 Enhancement bonus to all ability scores is a 6th level spell. Yeah.

Seriously, once you hit 2nd level, this is a Move action to get +3 AC, 3*HD HP, +3 to all saves, +3 to attack rolls, +3/+4 to damage rolls... This is before you factor in the fact that Mythos classes tend to get an additional ability score to their AC at level 1; a Teramach would be getting +6 to AC, for starters.

Some suggestions:

• Make the bonuses Enhancement bonuses. That way, they don't stack with everything.
• Reduce the size of the bonuses. If going with this route, I'd suggest basing it off the highest tier of Mythos you know. So with only Extraordinary Mythos, you get a +1 Untyped bonus to all your ability scores (which is doubled with Aubade Magnificence Aura), +2 when you have Fantastic Mythos, +3 with Legendary, +4 with Exalted, +5 with Sempiternal, etc, etc.

Brazen Obelus Tegument: Alright... I wouldn't grab this until, say, level 3. Which, you know, is fine. I do think that DR = level is a nice bonus, though. I have to laugh at the level 9 enhancement, since it doesn't really do anything; I presume that it helps versus some niche cases... Don't really see it as all that thematic, though... Perhaps make it DR/Lawful and Bronze (Why Bronze? Guess what the name of one of its alloys is. Go on, guess.)

Green Sun Nimbus Flare: Ah, the classics. First of all, the basic effect is rather strong for 1st level, and tapers off as you level, but is otherwise fine. However, what I'm worried about is Godscorch Invective; ignoring all immunity to Fire damage at 2nd level is... annoying. I'd suggest that Godscorch Invective instead expands the "hurting Divine peeps" effect to apply to all Fire damage you deal (I feel that is a bit more thematic), and leave the 7th level effect as-is.

Weakness-Browsing Arrogance: OK, you get Knowledge Devotion as a bonus feat, as well as a +2 to all Knowledge checks pertaining to creatures... That's all fine. However, the secondary effect...

I feel like it could maybe be tied to an opposed check, or be opposed in some way by Bluff? Because this blows the water out of certain disguises, and makes Sense Motive (which does something like this already) feel even sadder. Plus, people hiding their power level due to being scoundrels should be encouraged, mate. Seriously, you can tell that the God of Trickery is a god at a glance at level 1, regardless of how he/she/it/they disguise themselves... I express disapproval.

Fantastic Mythos:

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Heaven-Scorching Sunfire Projection: Fun fact: when I was reading through to review this, I mistakenly thought this was an Extraordinary Mythos. As you might expect, I was going to rake you over the coals for handing out Perfect flight at 1st level.

Aside from that amusing anecdote... I feel that this Mythos could be improved by building off of what mythos you took to qualify for it.

If I were to do it, I'd leave in the "half of Endure Elements", fire damage on attacks, Fly speed (rated at Good instead of Perfect), and the Desert Wind Dodge as a bonus feat. I would, however, make flaring your Anima improve your maneuverability to Perfect, and have getting in via Green Sun Nimbus Flare add the explosive take-off effect. If you have both the Mythos... voila!

Viridian Sunshine Devastation: Eh, it's OK. I'm curious why you didn't make it mechanically a Thrown weapon with a 40' range increment, the normal number of range increments, and the fire-and-halving damage thing. Just make say that you can use your Unarmed Strike this way, and that note about it working with Snap Kick and the like will be assumed (and thus unnecesary.)

The surge of power is pretty nice, and I don't see any balance concerns.

Legendary Mythos:

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Bowed-but-Unbroken Inviction: OK, so half of this damn power is fluff. That's fine... it's just that it makes it hard to scan to see what it does. Maybe italicize the fluff?

Other than that... that recharge doesn't add anything. At all. Plus, at a physical table (instead of in a PbP), 24d4 is a pain to roll; I doubt the entire gaming club at my college has that many d4s to rub together. So it's either going to slow stuff down at the table, or it's going to be averaged to 60 hours.

Why not have it require 16 hours of rest to restore the use of, halved if you don't have to sleep? So you'd be able to use it once every two days, ish.

Other than that, it just makes sure you don't die, and hands you an Exalted Mythos. I don't really see any problem with this; it lets you pull out stuff like Land-Shaping Limitation Ignorance, which, while strong, aren't going to win a fight by themselves.

Final verdict: Needs a bit of spit-and-shine, but otherwise looking decent.

[The Tygre]

I don't think I have anything to add. Only: