OOTS #953 - The Discussion Thread

[Keltest]

I'm pretty sure Durkon being all wrapped up is just indicative that both Durkon's and the HPoH's soul are within the body, HPoH in control with Durkon just trapped permanently and along for the ride.

Im referring specifically to the panels where we see the vampire body, with fangs and whatnot. He has been incredibly passive in this arc so far, especially compared to last arc where similar if not more serious situations were popping up left and right. But as far as weve seen this arc, since shouting "THOR'S NUTS!" he's just stood there. He didn't even give Belkar a sarcastic "Get out of my face so I can work, ya silly git!"

[sengmeng]

So, that should work, since Durkula is able to intercede as an agent of Hel and Thor doesn't have a cleric on site... but, can't Thor just raise another storm? Control Weather has a duration of 4d12 hours- anywhere from 4 hours to two days, average just over a day. It isn't bad odds that the god of thunder can summon more storms than the high priest of Hel has prepared to deal with.

[Paseo H]

Meh, figured this would happen. It would have had to of course, obviously can't let this subplot end too quickly.

[deimos3428]

Wait a minute (actually ten).

A cleric of Thor *stopping* a storm? Capable or not is irrelevant, the jig is up. They'll know he's not a worshipper of Thor.

He should be basking in divine glory, being so favored. What's next, cavorting with trees?

And if nobody else, Elan should figure this out, given his genre savvy and familiarity with deities (and puppets, for that matter.)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Wait a minute (actually ten).

A cleric of Thor *stopping* a storm? Capable or not is irrelevant, the jig is up. They'll know he's not a worshipper of Thor.

He should be basking in divine glory, being so favored. What's next, cavorting with trees?

And if nobody else, Elan should figure this out, given his genre savvy and familiarity with deities (and puppets, for that matter.)

Brilliant! I never thought of that, you're very clever.

Sadly, I don't think this arc is meant to end so quickly.

[Tannhaeuser]

Lawful? Really? If Thor is Lawful, then Xykon is Good.

Thor may be A-OK with Lawful followers, but he himself is anything but.

Þórr isn't in mythology, but Thor is in D&D. I know, it surprised me, too, when I looked it up. Still, if you can accept a blond Thor, you may as well go with a Lawful one.

[hamishspence]

Deities & Demigods Thor is CG.

It might only be OoTS Thor that's some other alignment - NG or LG.

That, or he's CG but allows LG clerics.

Can't recall if The Giant has ever established Thor's alignment.

[Aquillion]

Wait a minute (actually ten).

A cleric of Thor *stopping* a storm? Capable or not is irrelevant, the jig is up. They'll know he's not a worshipper of Thor.

He should be basking in divine glory, being so favored. What's next, cavorting with trees?

And if nobody else, Elan should figure this out, given his genre savvy and familiarity with deities (and puppets, for that matter.)

I doubt it. The other people in the party really want to believe that this is actually Durkon.

Imagine if we didn't know Durkon was a fake. Would the forums be universally siding with Belkar here? Absolutely not. Up until the reveal, people often got very heated in objecting to the possibility that Durkula might not be the real Durkon -- for Durkon's actual friends, who really really want to believe everything's all right, it's going to be even harder to accept.

Belkar can see things more clearly because he's cynical, because he has fewer emotional issues clouding his judgment here, and, I think, because he saw Durkon actually dying and becoming a vampire, so he has a better understanding of what a drastic change it was.

(That said, I hope V has the presence of mind to prepare Protection From Evil, just in case.)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

@everyone saying that Weather Control shouldn't override a God's storm:


"Mistress Hel, I've been reading the description of Control Weather... and I'm not sure it can actually DO that".

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear you just there. What did you say again?".

"•sigh• I said, 'nice thinking, Mistress'".

[Guppy]

Given Belkar's skepticism, I wouldn't be surprised if Durkula decides to try to get rid of him at some point.

[Edhelras]

Pretty much. If Thor is actively sending the storm, a control weather won't stop him.

What you would need was a spell like "Control Thor". That would be epic-level, for sure. I bet the Dwarven clerics have tried to research it. None have succeeded, yet.

[Tannhaeuser]

Þórr isn't in mythology, but Thor is in D&D. I know, it surprised me, too, when I looked it up. Still, if you can accept a blond Thor, you may as well go with a Lawful one.

Deities & Demigods Thor is CG.

It might only be OoTS Thor that's some other alignment - NG or LG.

That, or he's CG but allows LG clerics.

Can't recall if The Giant has ever established Thor's alignment.

Huh...oh, crap, I just realized I mixed up Thor with Tiamat, of all divinities. She should be Chaotic, since she represents the primal Chaos in the mythology, but she's Lawful in D&D. (That was one of the things, by the way, in which the old 'Eighties cartoon actually was more accurate than the game.)

Weird how the mind works...or fails to, in this case. I sit corrected.

[Edhelras]

I like to think his first one was kobolds.

Hah! Good thinking! You mean humanoid: reptilian, then. Would included bonuses vs. lizardfolk and troglodytes as well. But not snakes or frogs (except for possibly frogs that are actually bewitched princes?)

[Fellow]

As a Deity who can grant air domain spells, shouldn't Thor be capable of casting weather control far more often than the High priest?

[Kalmageddon]

So, any cleric with a "standard spell" can stop a direct act from a deity, even when said direct act is tied to their domain.
Either that, or the next strip shows Thor no-selling the spell, with a big "NOPE" coming down from the sky followed by a lightning.

[bladequeen420]

Thor might be neutral good

[Ghost Nappa]

I found it incredibly sneaky of the Giant to give the CE/CN Belkar and the LF Durkon something to actively root together on during this scene. Not because it wasn't obviously coming from a mile away but because Belkar has never had Solidarity with...well most of anyone.

In fact you might say that Durkon is counting on the lesser of two evils.!

That being said, I think Belkar's death is going to be from trying to put HPoH into a stake. The layout of this comic all but makes it clear: the only reason Belkar is not doing it right here and now is because of Roy. If Belkar hadn't just gone and learnt what "restraint" and "team-player" meant, they would have already quarreled.

The Dramatic Irony is actually making me a little annoyed at Roy for thinking he knows what's going on.
At least I could take solace in the fact that this inter-group conflict is the....calm before the storm!

[hamishspence]

Thor might be neutral good

We know at least (from the Index of the Giant's Comments) that OOTS Thor is not the same as D&D Thor.

[Vladier]

When I played Cormyr, tearing of the wave, I was intrigued by Cyricist and Sharrans posing as priests of Mystra. In particular, it seems only right that followers of the Prince of Lies should use these tactics - and I've later used that element in an adventure of my own making. However, one thing that was somewhat disturbing to that scenario was: Why didn't the deity herself strike down or expose the imposters?

That's probably because, no matter how powerful a deity is, they're still limited in number of places they can pay attention to, even though they are also technically multipresent everywhere where their portfolio is concerned and miles around, depending on their divine rank. And since a Cyricist isn't actually Mystran, they probably don't fall under "can see and feel everywhere [Divine rank] miles around followers and holy places" rule as long they're careful and desecrate a shrine and holy symbols. Also, I'm pretty sure that deities of equal or higher rank can interfere with others' sight if their areas are overlapping. And since Mystra, Cyric and Shar are all Greater deities, this should be possible.

On the matter of comic, though, I really like the High Priest of Hel more and more for his dry delivery. May we leave him?

This also probably shouldn't work. Control Weather will work, but Thor can simply conjure another storm (and I'm sure he has such spells in his Domain, so they're At Will and infinite), not to mention that he can also zap HPoH with lightning and break his concentration.

[Ivrytwr]

Hmmm, I still think this is Thor vs. High Priest of Hel possessing Durkon.
Don't think this over yet.

.... Geez.

[Fellow]

The layout of this comic all but makes it clear: the only reason Belkar is not doing it right here and now is because of Roy. If Belkar hadn't just gone and learnt what "restraint" and "team-player" meant, they would have already quarreled.

How about patern recognition? We've all seen what happens when Beklar and his will save try to fight a Vampire eye-to-eye.

[ORione]

Hah! Good thinking! You mean humanoid: reptilian, then. Would included bonuses vs. lizardfolk and troglodytes as well. But not snakes or frogs (except for possibly frogs that are actually bewitched princes?)

Frogs are amphibians, not reptiles.

[M.A.D]

If Thor could directly interfere and expose Durkula's impersonation, then on the same round, he could strike Xykon AND his phylactery with some thunder and be done with it. I think this storm isn't Thor's direct intervention, but rather one of his other clerics in the region's doing.

Also, based on Roy's stance, shouldn't the rope be shown atop of his hand?

[Anarion]

Ah, weather puns. The world's highest form of art.

So, any cleric with a "standard spell" can stop a direct act from a deity, even when said direct act is tied to their domain.
Either that, or the next strip shows Thor no-selling the spell, with a big "NOPE" coming down from the sky followed by a lightning.

Well, yes basically. Deities have always been limited in their ability to directly intervene in the world. That's why they have clerics, and unfortunately, controlling the weather is a power that any deity can grant.

But, we'll see. OotS has shown somewhat more active deities than is standard, so perhaps Thor will make a personal effort to intervene further on this.

[Reddish Mage]

For my own reading, control weather is meant to work here, and to work despite the long cast times and limited area of effect (Rich most likely allowing the spell to behave relativistically, though it is possible the Mechane is moving slowly now). Thor can be interpreted as not creating a miracle, but the weather is simply his working within his portfolio as the northern thunder god. The lightning bolt was just a one-off, perhaps Thor's aim was off, perhaps Thor means to slow Durkula down (and perhaps Thor is prevented by treaty for directly targeting another's priest).

Since the discussions surrounding the power of control weather and what Thor is doing very much ties in with "what will happen next." I predict the Giant is not going to weigh in on this discussion until the comics give us some answers.

[Gift Jeraff]

What if Thor just strikes him directly with lightning?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Considering Roy's remark "might be more complicated than that", I think at least some member of the order are aware that Durkon might no longer be under Thor's jurisdiction. As other said, Durkon already admit being now evil and mentioned as well that he would now need to prepare his spells on dusk instead of dawn. Admitting to a deity change would only be "normal" under such circumstances, or even saying that he's no longer under the charge of a god.

This is a good point. I'm not entirely sure why the High Priest of Hel doesn't want to admit that he is a Cleric of Hel. It could be he is worried that the Order will react very negatively to that news.

[Edhelras]

Frogs are amphibians, not reptiles.

Definitely not frogs, then!

And yes, I slept at school. Slept well.

As for quickened casting of Control Weather (mentioned in a post above) - that would require a spell slot of Level 11 (Control weather is lvl 7, Quicken spel requires a slot 4 lvls higher). I don't think the HPoH is capable of that.

[hamishspence]

As for quickened casting of Control Weather (mentioned in a post above) - that would require a spell slot of Level 11 (Control weather is lvl 7, Quicken spel requires a slot 4 lvls higher). I don't think the HPoH is capable of that.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell

Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit
Casting a quickened spell is an swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened.

[Cerussite]

There's one point everyone seems to be missing. Control Weather has but a 2-mile radius. Unless the Order is content with sitting on their hands in that radius until the storm is over, they'll have to ask Vampire!Durkon to pray for Thor's intervention himself to interrupt the storm so they can actually proceed - and then the jig will be up.