Dragonflame Dancer Repost

[dragonsamurai77]

Alignment: Any. However, Dragonflame Dancers are almost always chaotic, due to the raw and primal forces they utilize.

Hit Die: d8

Abilities: Strength allows a Dragonflame Dancer to do as much damage as possible. Dexterity boosts Armor Class, and Constitution boosts Hit Points. Some Charisma is needed for spellcasting.

The Dragonflame Dancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex).

Skill points: 4+Int bonus ((4+Int bonus)*4 at first level)

DRAGONFLAME DANCER
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|

+0

|

+0

|

+2

|

+0

|Flame Companion, Dance 1/day, Flame Blast, Resist Fire 10

2nd|

+1

|

+0

|

+3

|

+0

|Smokescreen

3rd|

+2

|

+1

|

+3

|

+1

| Appendages of Flame (1d6)

4th|

+3

|

+1

|

+4

|

+1

|Flaming Sword +1d6, Armored Mage|0

5th|

+3

|

+1

|

+4

|

+1

|Dance 2/day|0

6th|

+4

|

+2

|

+5

|

+2

|Flame Dance, Appendages of Flame (2d6)|1

7th|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|

+2

|Fire Cone|1

8th|

+6/+1

|

+2

|

+6

|

+2

|-|1|0

9th|

+6/+1

|

+3

|

+6

|

+3

|Resist Fire 20, Fire Line, Appendages of Flame (3d6)|1|0

10th|

+7/+2

|

+3

|

+7

|

+3

|Dance 3/day, Flaming Sword+2d6|1|1

11th|

+8/+3

|

+3

|

+7

|

+3

|Burn Anything|1|1|0

12th|

+9/+4

|

+4

|

+8

|

+4

|Appendages of Flame (4d6)|1|1|1

13th|

+9/+4

|

+4

|

+8

|

+4

|Fire Immunity|1|1|1

14th|

+10/+5

|

+4

|

+9

|

+4

|Improved Burst|2|1|1|0

15th|

+11/+6/+1

|

+5

|

+9

|

+5

|Dance 4/day, Appendages of Flame (5d6)|2|1|1|1

16th|

+12/+7/+2

|

+5

|

+10

|

+5

|Flaming Sword+3d6|2|2|1|1

17th|

+12/+7/+2

|

+5

|

+10

|

+5

|-|2|2|2|1

18th|

+13/+8/+3

|

+6

|

+11

|

+6

|Appendages of Flame (6d6)|3|2|2|1

19th|

+14/+9/+4

|

+6

|

+11

|

+6

|-|3|3|3|2

20th|

+15/+10/+5

|

+6

|

+12

|

+6

|Dance 5/day, Supreme Dance|3|3|3|3[/table]

Starting Gold: Same as fighter

The Dragonflame Dancer is proficient with the club, dagger, shortsword, longsword, rapier, scimitar, falchion, and greatsword. He is proficient with light armor, but not shields.

Class Abilities:

Spoiler

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Flame Companion (Su): At the beginning of his career, a Dragonflame summons an elemental from the Plane of Fire. This elemental serves faithfully, even in danger. It can be summoned or dismissed with a full-round action. If killed and forced to return to the Elemental Plane of Fire, it cannot be summoned again for 1 hour. The elemental always has Hit Dice equal to 1.5 times his master's Dragonflame Dancer levels, and increases in size as its Hit Dice increase, as a normal Fire Elemental.

Dance (Ex): As a free action that can only be taken on his turn, a Dragonflame Dancer can enter a dance to greatly boost his combat prowess. For 5 rounds he gains a +4 bonus to Dexterity and a +1 bonus on attack rolls. This bonus to attack rolls increases by +1 at fourth level, and with every three additional levels (7th, 10th, 13th, etc...)

At tenth level the Dexterity bonus increases to +6, and at 16th it increases to +8.

This ability can only be used in light or no armor.

Flame Blast (Su): As a standard action a Dragonflame Dancer can create a 10ft radius burst anywhere within 100ft +10ft/level. This burst does 1d8 points for fire damage per class level, and allows a Reflex save (DC 10 + Dex Mod + Class Level/2) for half damage. Alternatively he can create a 10ft radius cylinder of fire centered around himself, with none of the fire actually entering his square.

Regardless of choice, after using his Flame Blast ability the Dragonflame Dancer must wait 5 rounds to do so again. This ability can only be used while wearing light or no armor.

Resist Fire 10 (Ex): Due to his closeness to fire, a Dragonflame Dancer is protected from it. This resistance increases by 10 every 4 levels after first, until it becomes an immunity at level 13.

Smokescreen (Su): As a standard action, a Dragonflame Dancer can surround himself in smoke, granting him concealment for 2 rounds. This smoke extends only to whatever squares the Dancer occupies, but moves with him. The Dancer can see through the smoke, and is not hindered by it. The smoke is blown away by any sufficiently strong wind.

Appendages of Flame (Su): Dragonflame Dancers can manipulate fire to sprout limbs. When making a full attack, the Dragonflame Dancer can attack all creatures around him with these appendages, except ones he designates not to be attacked. This does 1d6 fire damage, with a Reflex save of 10 + Dex mod + 1/2 Dragonflame Dancer level to halve. Every 3 levels afterwards, the damage increases by 1d6.

Armored Mage (Ex): A Dragonflame Dancer ignores spell failure while in light armor, but only for Dragonflame Dancer spells.

Flaming Sword (Su): At will, a Dragonflame Dancer can ignite or extinguish any melee weapon he is holding. When ignited, the weapon does 1d6 fire damage, in addition to its normal damage. This bonus increases by 1d6 every six levels afterwards. This bonus stacks with all other magical weapon damage.

Spells: Beginning at fourth level, a Dragonflame Dancer gains the ability to cast a limited amount of arcane spells, taken from a limited list of spells. The Dragonflame Dancer knows every spell on this list, and can cast any one at any given time, as long as the spell slot is available. To cast a spell, a Dragonflame Dancer must have a Charisma of at least 10 + spell level, and must have room to dance while casting. Dragonflame Dancer spells never have material components.

Flame Dance (Ex): A Dragonflame Dancer can use one dance to go into a fiery rage, causing Flame Blast to have no cooldown. This dance a full-round action. It lasts for 5 rounds, and can only be used in light or no armor. Due to the intense energy of this dance, the Dragonflame Dancer must wait 1 hour between uses.

Fire Cone (Sp): Flame Blast can now be used in a 30ft cone shape.

Fire Line (Sp): Flame Blast can now be used as a line attack, hitting every target in a 120 ft. straight line.

Burn Anything (Su): Whenever the Dragonflame Dancer inflicts fire damage, half of the damage is considered to be untyped.

Improved Burst(Su): When Flame Blast is used as a burst or cylinder, the attack can now cover 20 feet instead of 10. When it is used as a cone, it can now cover 60 feet.

Supreme Dance (Ex): A Supreme Dance allows a Dragonflame Dancer to tap into the depths of his power. A Dragonflame Dancer can use this ability but once a day, and it lasts for 5 rounds. For every melee attack the Dragonflame Dancer makes, except as a result of Supreme Dance, he gets another attack at the same attack bonus.

Spell List:

Spoiler

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Level 1: Enlarge Person, Mage Armor, Magic Weapon, Magic Fang, Shield, True Strike, Blade of Blood
Level 2: Barkskin, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Critical Strike, Daggerspell Stance
Level 3: Haste, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Fire Wings, Greater Mage Armor, Spider Skin, Fly
Level 4: Heroism, Valiant Fury, Fire Shield, Enlarge Person (Mass), Stoneskin, Fire Stride

[22Charisma]

Hmm, seems like a really cool class.

I was going to say something about how the elemental's size wasn't mentioned, but then I realized i was being dumb and hadn't taken into account the hit die being equal to 1.5 the master's level.

The only thing that kinda bugs me is that the Class dances, but doesn't use the Perform(Dance) skill for anything. Maybe do something like the bard, where they need a certain number of skill points in the perform skill to use their bardic music ability? Also since the Drangonflame Dancer needs to dance to cast his spells, maybe he instead of needing to cast a concentration check to not loose his spell he could cast a Perform(Dance) check.

Also I'm not quite sure how the Improved Burst ability works. It says it applies to Flame Dance, but Flame Dance only allows Flame Blast to be used with out cooldown. Did you maybe intend it to apply to Flame Blast instead?

Great job though! I really do like the concept of a Dancing fighter ON FIRE!

[dragonsamurai77]

Also I'm not quite sure how the Improved Burst ability works. It says it applies to Flame Dance, but Flame Dance only allows Flame Blast to be used with out cooldown. Did you maybe intend it to apply to Flame Blast instead?

Yeah, that's a typo I never fixed.

[dragonsamurai77]

Anyone have any other ideas on how I could incorporate Perform(dance) checks? Also, does anyone know of any pictures or quotes that would represent this class?

[Hazzardevil]

How about when it says to use half your flame dancer level to calculate the DC instead make a dance check instead and add that to the other stuff.

[firemagehao]

I suggest giving it spells like fireball, and other fire-based spells, and the eschew materials feat.

[dragonsamurai77]

I suggest giving it spells like fireball, and other fire-based spells, and the eschew materials feat.

Why? His main class ability, Flame Blast, is essentially an at-will Fireball with cooldown.

[Hazzardevil]

Does using dance checks for DC's seem like a good idea?

[dragonsamurai77]

Does using dance checks for DC's seem like a good idea?

It's worth consideration, certainly. I don't know yet whether or not I'll do that, but it's certainly an interesting idea.

[firemagehao]

Why? His main class ability, Flame Blast, is essentially an at-will Fireball with cooldown.

Not fireball necessarily, but things like scorching ray, flame sphere, meteor swarm, sunburst.

Flame blast itself is way to powerful, so I would consider switching it out. Comparing the amount of damage that could do to that of a sorcerer or wizard, this class wins outright.

[dragonsamurai77]

Not fireball necessarily, but things like scorching ray, flame sphere, meteor swarm, sunburst.

Flame blast itself is way to powerful, so I would consider switching it out. Comparing the amount of damage that could do to that of a sorcerer or wizard, this class wins outright.

There are two things that make Flame Blast much weaker than equivalent sorcerer/wizard spells:

1. Cooldown. Other than through Flame Dance, which has limited use, Flame Blast can only be used once every 5 rounds. A caster has the option of going nova.

2. Metamagic, or lack of. Casters can apply powerful metamagic effects to their spells. Flame Blast must be used as-is.

Beyond that, sorcerers and wizards aren't supposed to do direct damage through evocations; it's pretty much their worst option, so your comparison seems invalid.

[Hazzardevil]

Actually you can apply metamagics to flame burst only it's only 3 times per day

[firemagehao]

There are two things that make Flame Blast much weaker than equivalent sorcerer/wizard spells:

1. Cooldown. Other than through Flame Dance, which has limited use, Flame Blast can only be used once every 5 rounds. A caster has the option of going nova.

2. Metamagic, or lack of. Casters can apply powerful metamagic effects to their spells. Flame Blast must be used as-is.

Beyond that, sorcerers and wizards aren't supposed to do direct damage through evocations; it's pretty much their worst option, so your comparison seems invalid.

If a 1st level wizard 'went nova' the most damage he could do was 21, with maximum damage rolls, over the course of 5 rounds. That could be outdone with melee attacks alone over 5 rounds, with more from the companion, during the cooldown time between blasts. At higher levels, this class could one-shot a wizard with average damage rolls.

[dragonsamurai77]

If a 1st level wizard 'went nova' the most damage he could do was 21, with maximum damage rolls, over the course of 5 rounds. That could be outdone with melee attacks alone over 5 rounds, with more from the companion, during the cooldown time between blasts. At higher levels, this class could one-shot a wizard with average damage rolls.

At level 1, Flame Blast averages only 1 point of damage more than a DFA's at-will breath weapon at first level, hardly broken. After that, blasting in general becomes less and less useful. Also, your "1-shot a wizard" theory assumes that both the wizard fails his save and that he does not have a Constitution bonus. In the first draft of the class, Flame Blast did 1d6, but other people said that might actually be too weak. Still, I am interested in hearing what other people think. What does the community think about Flame Blast?

[BladeofOblivion]

In that playtest we did, I remember it being powerful enough to practically One-shot that squid thing. Of course, it rolled a very poor save.

[Silverscale]

Also, does anyone know of any pictures or quotes that would represent this class?

Just started looking through this thread and it looks like an interesting class, though I will have to look at it more closely.....however when I came across this I did a Google-Image search and found this for you.

http://1x.com/photos/latest-additions/37053/

[Hazzardevil]

I don't think that picture is appropriate really for the class.
I think it should be somethign more with a lot of fire and a man standing in the middle.
If you've seen Kingdom hearts then Axel would make a good idea for a flame dance picture.

[Tvtyrant]

I would say that Flameblast is fine; it doesn't even do as much as meteor storm, which isn't a great spell. I would give it a ray form as well, to deal with DR/SR monsters.

My main question is which class is this meant to balance against? Its stronger then a Ranger of Paladin, which seem to be the target audience. On the other hand, its not that much stronger then them, since fire is the weakest element.

[Noblesse]

Being allowed to choose if he wants the 10 or 20 foot burst would be nice

As far as the saving throw DC's, I think it's a typo, but shouldn't it be 10+HALF class level+dex mod not full level?

Also, you never mention (although it is slightly implied) if these spells are cast as arcane or divine (or other). EDIT: also does it get bonus spells/day based on it's casting stat?

As far as balance goes, I'd probably knock it down to a 3/4 bab since it has so many other attack options than a paladin or ranger as tvtyrant mentioned.

Also, you might look at reducing dance's effectiveness early on or at least increasing the 'cast time'. As it stands, assuming DragonFlame Dancer got weapon finesse (kinda stupid not to with how dex heavy this class is), and dances (free action) he'll get a +5 bonus to hit and +2 bonus to damage, +2 AC, +2 save DC on Fire Blast for 8 rounds (which is an entire encounter at level one). Consider RAGE (also free action) only gives a +2 to hit,damage, two additional hp, +2 will saves, but -2 on AC, but is also is fatigued afterwards.

Now to your initial reason for posting, the 1d8 over 1d6, I hardly think it's an issue being 1d8 instead of 1d6, it's an average of 1 damage/level more, especially with the cooldown.

Overall, besides a few balance issues/typo I like it. I've always been a fan of the pyrokinetisist but it is fairly useless at the level you are able to obtain it at and this class seems to channel it a bit.

[dragonsamurai77]

Being allowed to choose if he wants the 10 or 20 foot burst would be nice

Good point.

As far as the saving throw DC's, I think it's a typo, but shouldn't it be 10+HALF class level+dex mod not full level?

Will be fixed.

Also, you never mention (although it is slightly implied) if these spells are cast as arcane or divine (or other). EDIT: also does it get bonus spells/day based on it's casting stat?

Arcane, bonus spells based on Dexterity

As far as balance goes, I'd probably knock it down to a 3/4 bab since it has so many other attack options than a paladin or ranger as tvtyrant mentioned.

The class is intended for mid-high tier 3, not tier 4, so I feel I can justify it being stronger in that regard.

Also, you might look at reducing dance's effectiveness early on or at least increasing the 'cast time'. As it stands, assuming DragonFlame Dancer got weapon finesse (kinda stupid not to with how dex heavy this class is), and dances (free action) he'll get a +5 bonus to hit and +2 bonus to damage, +2 AC, +2 save DC on Fire Blast for 8 rounds (which is an entire encounter at level one). Consider RAGE (also free action) only gives a +2 to hit,damage, two additional hp, +2 will saves, but -2 on AC, but is also is fatigued afterwards.

Will try to fix.

Now to your initial reason for posting, the 1d8 over 1d6, I hardly think it's an issue being 1d8 instead of 1d6, it's an average of 1 damage/level more, especially with the cooldown.

Overall, besides a few balance issues/typo I like it. I've always been a fan of the pyrokinetisist but it is fairly useless at the level you are able to obtain it at and this class seems to channel it a bit.

I will try to find a way to fix Dance.

[Noblesse]

Oo- you also might want to state that you can only enter a dance on your turn, sorta like the rage entry if you are keeping it as a free action

"Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a barbarian can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else’s action."- Barbarian SRD

[firemagehao]

My main question is which class is this meant to balance against? Its stronger then a Ranger of Paladin, which seem to be the target audience. On the other hand, its not that much stronger then them, since fire is the weakest element.

Possibly the Battle Sorcerer variant. Fire is by no means the weakest element. I reference the story of Prometheus.

[Tvtyrant]

Possibly the Battle Sorcerer variant. Fire is by no means the weakest element. I reference the story of Prometheus.

In D&D everything is resistant to fire. It goes roughly fire<cold<lightning<acid<sonic<force for how effective they are on average.

[firemagehao]

In D&D everything is resistant to fire. It goes roughly fire<cold<lightning<acid<sonic<force for how effective they are on average.

But fire has many more practical uses, such as staving off cold, or crafting. Last I checked, D&D an exercise in going around smashing things.

[Tvtyrant]

But fire has many more practical uses, such as staving off cold, or crafting. Last I checked, D&D an exercise in going around smashing things.

In the context of killing things in D&D, fire is the weakest element. My point was that the damage output of the flameblast wasn't an issue, since everything is resistant or immune to it, especially at higher levels. If you made a "force dancer" then the damage would be crazy, since nothing is resistant/immune to force.

[firemagehao]

In the context of killing things in D&D, fire is the weakest element. My point was that the damage output of the flameblast wasn't an issue, since everything is resistant or immune to it, especially at higher levels. If you made a "force dancer" then the damage would be crazy, since nothing is resistant/immune to force.

But it also means that you can never resort to eating raw food, and it would danger away from arctic environments.

[Unrest]

tl;dr: Not broken to me, quite wild with Flame Dance, but still not staggeringly so. I would strongly suggest Fiery Dance not be usable straight after one another, but that's just a style matter.

+ Fire Stride spell from SpC would be a logical addition to the spell list. I'd make the final spell slots 4 rather than 3. You're already an "all or nothing for the next half minute" type class. (Though that's arguably a pain all casters share. This one has at least some very welcome fighting capability.)

Thinking aloud:

Spoiler

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Comparing it to DFA or Warlock: Flame Blast is always a long range Spell-like bomb with a 10 / 20 ft. area of effect, or burst around him. Using Warlock as comparison, that is, for free: 1) a blast shape long range invocation, 2) an AoE invocation they don't have, 3) these two are always combined, which you can't do with Eldritch Blast, 4) a Dark invocation for burst damage. OTOH, there are no other ways you can modify it, with blast essences and so on.

Obviously, the lock wins for sustained damaging, while DFD is the better for 'spiking'. (...) DFD's, however, get less utility. They can buff up for combat and then go in there and blast stuff, but that's that. (...) DFD's, however, can keep up in melee with full BAB, and maintain the ability not to get hit with their spells...

Man, you could go on for so long with comparisons. I'm not a fan of the "killer bomb every 5 rounds" tactic, but it's not broken. With flame dance, now, you're looking at some massive damage, though that's "massive" much more by the notion of tier No fighter rather than, say, even Sneak Attack. That's why I'd assume it's all very viable by mid/high tier 3.

[dragonsamurai77]

tl;dr: Not broken to me, quite wild with Flame Dance, but still not staggeringly so. I would strongly suggest Fiery Dance not be usable straight after one another, but that's just a style matter.

+ Fire Stride spell from SpC would be a logical addition to the spell list. I'd make the final spell slots 4 rather than 3. You're already an "all or nothing for the next half minute" type class. (Though that's arguably a pain all casters share. This one has at least some very welcome fighting capability.)

Thinking aloud:

Spoiler

Show

Comparing it to DFA or Warlock: Flame Blast is always a long range Spell-like bomb with a 10 / 20 ft. area of effect, or burst around him. Using Warlock as comparison, that is, for free: 1) a blast shape long range invocation, 2) an AoE invocation they don't have, 3) these two are always combined, which you can't do with Eldritch Blast, 4) a Dark invocation for burst damage. OTOH, there are no other ways you can modify it, with blast essences and so on.

Obviously, the lock wins for sustained damaging, while DFD is the better for 'spiking'. (...) DFD's, however, get less utility. They can buff up for combat and then go in there and blast stuff, but that's that. (...) DFD's, however, can keep up in melee with full BAB, and maintain the ability not to get hit with their spells...

Man, you could go on for so long with comparisons. I'm not a fan of the "killer bomb every 5 rounds" tactic, but it's not broken. With flame dance, now, you're looking at some massive damage, though that's "massive" much more by the notion of tier No fighter rather than, say, even Sneak Attack. That's why I'd assume it's all very viable by mid/high tier 3.

I agree with the increased spells, but I don't know how to space it (That's just the Ranger spell progression). Will change Flame Dance.

ALSO: I decided to put Supreme Dance with the other dances, but requiring 2 uses of Dance. However, now I don't think there are enough uses at higher levels. How should I change the dance progression?

[Eurus]

Does the elemental advance in size based on its hit dice? You don't actually say one way or another, and since animal companions and such don't, that's what I'm currently assuming. Also, I assume it gains feats based on hit dice?

It's slightly odd to me that there are no limitations at all on dancing. It's basically a constant bonus, since you can just have it up forever and there's no drawbacks. I personally hate having daily limits on abilities, but you'd think there would be some limiting factor, otherwise why even specify a duration?

[Unrest]

It's slightly odd to me that there are no limitations at all on dancing. It's basically a constant bonus, since you can just have it up forever and there's no drawbacks. I personally hate having daily limits on abilities, but you'd think there would be some limiting factor, otherwise why even specify a duration?

But there is a limit... It's up to 5 uses of dance / day. For one use, you gain 5 rounds of + Dexterity, or increased blasting rate.

As for Supreme Dance taking up 2 dance uses, with maximum 5 at 20th... Dunno, I rather choose "power up" rather than "power down" when thinking about class design, so having 2 Supreme Dances on top of 5 uses of Flame / regular dance (needs a name btw) wouldn't offend me.

Some more description of how dances work would be needed to get some order in there. Dances are stuff you do continually. Regular is said to be a free action, Flame is full, and Supreme is not said to be either. Also has this "except those as a result of Supreme Dance" clause which I had to read three times to understand. And the regular dance says "+1 on attack rolls", and then says "+1 / 3 levels on damage"...

I'll sketch it out (for myself really) and probably do it 100% tomorrow (sorry, my syntax and vocabulary and especially standardized 3.5 wording and formatting don't obey me today)

- you can dance 1/day per 4 levels
- beginning a dance is a swift action
- continuing to dance does not take an action
- dances last 5 rounds
- regular dance gives +4 / +6 / +8 Dex and +1 at 1st and +6 melee attack rolls at 18th; also, your land / flying speed increases by 10ft and by 20 ft at level 12.
- Flame Dance lets you use Flame Blast every round while the dance is active; cannot be reused until an hour later (or however long you feel); perhaps add an equivalent of ~Flame Shield (whatever spell that damages those that attack you).
- Supreme Dance: the same, can't word it better now. I wouldn't limit it to melee, but that's me. 2 uses / day.
- no two dances can be on at the same time
- while a dance is active every thing that would call for a Concentration check from a caster calls for a Perform (dance) check from the DFD. If failed, the dance ends immediately.