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2021-09-16, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Do you have a better word for "undefinite youth"?
For two, people can do that now but it's heavily frowned on in most circumstances. If killing yourself becuase you're bored of living is unacceptable at 28, why would it be okay at 2800?Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-16, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 08:46 AM.
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
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2021-09-16, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Well no. "Eternal" never ends.
If you're genuinely immortal, the Black Hole can't hurt you.
If you're not, then you wouldn't survive being caught in such a way. Or, you know, even live that long in the first place.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-16, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
If you're gonna play semantics, your youth never ends if you die before you get old.
Then I'm spending all eternity drifiting into space aimlessely into space. Paradise.
Which means eventually a new universe will form around you.[/QUOTE]I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
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2021-09-16, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
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2021-09-16, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Hopefully the endless isolation and sensory deprivation during those several billion years (if you’re lucky) don’t drive you into insanity.
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2021-09-16, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-16, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-16, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
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2021-09-16, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
I don't see your point. Also you're the one who started with semantics when you said that "immortality" means you can't make it stop. Which is why I asked you what term you would find better fitting to what I was proposing.
Infintie time means eventually, everything will happen(presumably, if you're truly immortal, excluding your death.)
Which means eventually a new universe will form around you.
Also if absolutely everything will happen (to me), that means I would go (among other things) through the most horrible experiences conceivable and inconceivable. Pass.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-16, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
And you have not considered at all that an unending lifespan might radically change psychology and how that concept might change?
Many of which have catches, and even without, as several people have mentioned, not everyone fantasizes about transhumanism. And this is far beyond fantasizing, you have something of an obsession with it. Of course you're going to fundamentally disagree with any point of view counter to yours if you have invested so much of yourself into such a fantasy.Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-16 at 09:10 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-16, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
No, but there are a finite number of things that are physically possible and a finite number of ways that matter and energy can be arranged.
Given infinite time, particularly with the presence of an infinite source feeding energy into an otherwise closed-system(IE, one or more true immortals) then eventually everything that can happen eventually will.That's not arguing semantics, that's citing a fact.
Immortality, in the absence of a qualifier like "clinical" or 'virtual", means the inability to die.
In order to choose to die, you need to be physically capable of dying.
Thus, being able to choose to terminate your own life precludes being immortal.Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 09:15 AM.
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-16, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-16 at 09:12 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-16, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
1) You are again assuming infinite time. We do not know that to be a thing.
2) Everything that can happen inside that system may happen. The creation of another universe would be the apparition of another system, which absent a way to travel from one to the other, does not help at all.
That's not arguing semantics, that's citing a fact.
Immortality, in the absence of a qualifier like "clinical" or 'virtual", means the inability to die.
In order to choose to die, you need to be physically capable of dying.
Thus, being able to choose to terminate your own life precludes being immortal.
Your statements about the meaning of the word immortality is semantic. That is a (semantic) fact.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-16, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
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2021-09-16, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-09-16 at 09:27 AM.
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2021-09-16, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
When you offer Vita Sine Fine and others opt out because they aren't interested in the 'without end' but, then I'm not sure why you think you could convince them into accepting it without removing the without end bit.
I don't think that matter can spontaneously create a new universe. Therefore I'll end up drifting through the universe in it's lowest energy state in my lowest energy state. If we're assuming thinking takes no energy then I'll have an the rights I can have and then have nothing to do for the next few eternities, all wine just wishing I could converse with somebody. Sounds like heaven.
Being more realistic and assuming thinking does take energy, then I don't have the energy to think. Therefore from my point of view I might as well not exist. At this point it's probably a better deal to shuffle off the existence part while I have the energy to do so, risk it for a chance that there's a part of me that isn't rooted in the material universe will then have a better existence than physical me would.
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2021-09-16, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-16, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
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2021-09-16, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
An eternity in a low-energy state isn't even the most horrifying scenario I can come up with.
First off, eventually you're going to be sent drifting into space. Which means you're going to live through explosive decompression and spend who knows how long drifting in a cold, endless void.
Then (eventually) you're going to get trapped in the center of a star. And those things last for *billions* of years. Burning your eternal body that entire time.
Sure, given an infinitely resetting (or truly infinite) universe and truly undying immortality you will eventually end up on a planet again, but 'immortal' does not mean 'immune to injury/pain'.Last edited by HalfTangible; 2021-09-16 at 09:41 AM.
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
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2021-09-16, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Everyone is obsessed with "immortality." All life on earth is motivated by the duel drives of survival and reproduction, which in humans have evolved into the more complex desire to survive long enough to leave a lasting legacy.
For some this means a long life. For others it means insuring the propagation of their bloodline, for others it's raising a good family whether related by blood or not, or leaving a lasting impression in other, or creating some great work.
At the end of the day, every sane, rational human being wants to either have a long life, or be remembered when their gone, with many wanting both, and that comes down to the same biological imperative to survive and propagate that's been handed down since the first complex amino acids spawned by random chance in the primordial ooze.
The only difference between say, a great artist and myself is that I want something more literal.
And I don't think anyone has the right to blame me: I watched cancer take my father. Cancer took a bunch of my other relatives too. I've had friends taken away in tragic, senseless accidents and had their names slandered after the fact. My great-grandmother was very spry, active, and sharp in late seventies and early eighties, then one day it was like a switch flipped. She didn't have any energy anymore, her mind went and it went fast. Then the strokes started. Have you ever actually seen someone dying of "old age?" People act like it's a good way to go, but it's not.
And I've told you all about the time my paternal grandmother beat cancer only to immediately die of an opportunistic infection. Did I mention how my maternal grandfather broke his back, the hospital said he'd make a full recovery, and then he randomly Coded and died minutes after they got him comfortable in his bed.
The autopsy found no cause of death.
My grandmother is falling apart before my eyes and I can't convince her to make even a modicum of effort to take better care of herself before it's too late.
I've seen people go horribly and I've seen people go senselessly. I've seen strong evidence that legacy immortality is unreliable and the man who isn't afraid of growing ill or being riddled by disease or toxins is a fool.
So, I quite logically concluded that this whole death thing was complete bull**** and decided that if I could find a way to become genuine, perfect immortality, I'd take it.
And share it with as many people as possible. I'd be morally obligated to it for much the same reason that someone who discovered a cure for HIV would be obligated to share it.Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 09:56 AM.
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-16, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2021-09-16, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
A healthy human is fine to go away eventually so there's still enough resources for the younger humans. Not everybody is fine with going away now, and it's perfectly healthy to switch from survival mode to time to die mode at an age older than any human head reached.
I have an interest in having my aging paused, not an obsession with it, as well as an interest in raising children at some point (and a current interest in the activities that produce them). But I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with them (okay, except for the sex).
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2021-09-16, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Sure, I want children. That's not an obsession, though.
At the end of the day, every sane, rational human being wants to either have a long life, or be remembered when their gone, with many wanting both
(And let's not even get started with how "rational" such desires are.)
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2021-09-16, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Resource scarcity is a myth: As technology improves, our ability to produce food, water, clothing, and shelter for the population increases at a rate that outstrips population growth, and technological improvement over a generation tend to be roughly twice the rate of the previous generation, meaning that the gap between resoruces produced and resources needed will keep getting wider. As it is, a good chunk of the food we grow ends up being thrown out.
Not to mention that as average life span and quality of life go up, rates of reproduction go down.
What you are presenting as an insurmountable problem is actually really easily fixed in the grand scheme of things.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-16, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
That might be true now, but the majority of healthy human behaviours developed back in the days when most groups didn't have enough resources to develop technologically. At the end of the day modern Anonymouswizard is no different to prehistoric Anonymouswizard in mindset, but I have a lot more resources than they did.
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2021-09-16, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
No.
I'm pretty sure far more people acknowledge that being obsessed with living forever is going to drive you to waste what precious time you have.
At the end of the day, every sane, rational human being wants to either have a long life, or be remembered when their gone, with many wanting both
While I can't know your life and say definitively you've never come close to death, I know I have. It didn't make me want to live forever, it just put into focus that my time is limited. If I didn't have that limit I would doubtless be a lazy, worthless waste of space.
And sure, I would like a full 100 years, I don't want to die immediately after hitting "submit reply" to this post, and I would very much like to write books that people love. That doesn't translate to "I want to outlive the stars" which seems to be the only form of immortality you're allowing in your hypothetical scenarios.Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
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2021-09-16, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Look dude, I get the appeal. I watched my grandmother die a slow death from Alzheimer’s, and I watched my grandfather slowly decline until his death years later. If I had the ability to bring them back and perfect health I would take it in a heartbeat.
But the immortality, true, everlasting, billions and trillions of years from now immortality is daunting. None of the stuff about dead relatives and the total BS of death changes that.
If immortality meant ai could live forever, not aging above 30 or so (still babyfaced at 26 unfortunately, so I’ll give myself a few more years of maturing) and spend forever hanging out with friends, watching football, reading, snowboarding ect, then yeah, I’d take it. But that isn’t want you are offering. The world will change and leave you behind, and mentally that will cause people a lot of anguish. Frankly, I think I could get past that, but eventually, billions of years in the future (you’re a immortal, gotta look long term) the planet is going to get vaporized by the sun, you will get sucked into a star and spend a eternity alone, hoping at some point in the endless future you land on a planet. To me that is worse than the oblivion that awaits people who shuffle off this mortal coil.
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2021-09-16, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-16, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234
Counting or not counting the times I was too young to realize what was going on?
Counting the things I was aware of in the moment, there was an incident in middle school where someone tried to push me down the stairs, the time some jackass in a diesel truck almost swerved right into the passenger side seat of my mom's itty bitty car(IE, where I was sitting) on the highway, the time I was hospitalized with a two-foot blood clot and suspected pulmonary embolisms.
If going back to things I only realized in hindsight but that haunt me now that I'm older, there was the time I tripped at the top of the stairs and went tumbling down the banister where, had I not landed on my mother who was sitting at the bottom, my skull would have been smashed on the wall, and the time I spent a week in the hospital with an oversized kidney stone when I was four.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing