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Thread: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-17, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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Re: Loki (2021)
... I was really dissapointed when He Who Remains gave them the script. I predicted it even. Mostly becaue I was having Homestuck flashbacks.
But this show has been mostly about the ride, with many character moments and a few clever ideas. Makes it hard to guess what will happen next season.
Spoiler: idk spoiler rules I'll follow evryones leadThe biggest change I can count on, is the first season NYLoki was at a disatvantage, in a place he didn't fully understand, where his existance was precarious as a known variant. Now, he knows more about these recently reset (or alternate or whatever) TVA than they know about themselves. And he's on the inside.
I assume the TVA is newly reset. They haven't met Loki variants yet. I suppose another possiblity is Sylvie is taking every Loki variant for herself. Or He Who Remains was causing more Loki variants to find the exact flavor Lokis he wanted.
So, I guess the ending didn't really make me excited about what I had seen, but did make me curious about what's next. Also, nice place looked like cracked pottery put together with gold.yo
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2021-07-17, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-07-18 at 08:01 AM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-17, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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2021-07-18, 03:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Gobbotopia
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2021-07-18, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
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2021-07-18, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2020
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2021-07-18, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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2021-07-18, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2020
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2021-07-18, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Washington, USA
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Re: Loki (2021)
A bit random, but is anyone else drawing parallels between Loki and the FF7 remake?
SpoilerBoth involve the protagonists rebelling against Fate, and in the end winning, but with the implication that maybe that wasn't necessarily a good thing. The TVA are like the Whispers, trying to make sure things play out the exact way they are supposed to.
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2021-07-18, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Loki (2021)
Originally Posted by JadedDM
A bit random, but is anyone else drawing parallels between Loki and the FF7 remake?
Last edited by Palanan; 2021-07-18 at 06:01 PM.
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2021-07-18, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: Loki (2021)
Takes your Segue to do another.
Spoiler: The TVA The Final Frontier
What would we as the audience would have felt if it was Q at the end of Time?
What would we felt about Q creating the TVA and thus vicariously doing all the horrible things the TVA is doing?
Would we then support Sylvie stabbing He Who Remains?
———
I am not talented enough to redo the Next Generation opening with Loki of Asquard but the cadence is
1+5, 12, 7+6, 12, 11 syllables if someone wants to try.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-07-18, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Loki (2021)
Originally Posted by Ramza00
SpoilerWhat would we as the audience…have felt if it was Q at the end of Time?Spoiler
Originally Posted by Ramza00
SpoilerWould we then support Sylvie stabbing He Who Remains?SpoilerSo, so much.
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2021-07-18, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-19, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Disney's silence on Cruella's numbers after they were so quick to trumpet those of Black Widow is a bit deafening.
That would depend entirely on the consequences for doing so, as well as the consequences/time pressure for inaction. The latter didn't appear to have any that I could see.
I will say that I much preferSpoileran up-jumped mortal to any kind of godlike being waiting behind that door. I'm also very interested in the potential Richards connection being set up here that we wouldn't have gotten with the traditional HWR or Timekeepers.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-19, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Knoxville Tennessee
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Re: Loki (2021)
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2021-07-19, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Deep in the Black
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Re: Loki (2021)
I do wish Loki's point to Sylvie had been, "Killing him is *obviously* what he wants us to do, and we need to figure out why."
Honestly, though, I had a great time with it. I think if we'd all gone into it knowing that they'd written the season to end on a set-up cliffhanger rather than a resolution, it would be getting less blowback than it is.Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.
Defender of
Don't make me trot out Smite Moron!
Thanks to Sneak for the Avatar.
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2021-07-19, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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2021-07-19, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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2021-07-19, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Maryland
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Re: Loki (2021)
That may be a difference in expectations. I knew they were having another season, and the upcoming movie titles hint very strongly at a Multiverse existing. I figured there would be some sort of outcome that left Loki alive in case they opted to use him, but that resulted in a Multiverse unfolding.
The TVA's sacred timeline was never going to be preserved, and I assumed that from episode one.
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2021-07-19, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Gridania, Eorzea
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Re: Loki (2021)
This very much seemed a given, it was just the specifics on how and why it happened that was uncertain.
Overall quite enjoyed the showed and looking forward to season 2 and the multiverse related movies. They seem to be leaning into existential/eldritch horror rather hard with this series, and hopeful that Dr. Strange 2 will continue that trend.
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2021-07-19, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-20, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Deep in the Black
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Re: Loki (2021)
I'm not saying that I think he *was* trying to trick them into killing him. But while I think HWR was masterfully acted, I don't think it was a very good pitch for getting either Loki on board, and I would have bought Loki thinking there's a con game going on that Sylvie is falling for more than I did him buying into the necessity of the TVA.
Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.
Defender of
Don't make me trot out Smite Moron!
Thanks to Sneak for the Avatar.
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2021-07-20, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
I don't think he "bought into the necessity of the TVA" either. His exact words were:
Spoiler
L: "What if he's telling the truth?"
S: "So what?"
L: "I believe him."
S: "Believe what? That a bazillion boogeymen are going to turn up just because we give people free will? He's a liar, Loki!"
L: "So am I. And I don't think he was lying. Not about that. Insane? Yes. But maybe he was telling the truth."
S: "So what are you suggesting?"
L: "I'm suggesting we think about it."
S: "And what PRECISELY is there to think about?"
L: "Weren't you listening to what he was saying? That's the gambit. Remove the dictator and what fills the void?"
S: "Ah. You want the throne."
L: "No. That's not it, no."
S: "I don't believe you."
L: "Sylvie... the universe is in the balance. Everything we know to be true, everything. I know the TVA has hurt us both... but what if, by taking him out, we risk unleashing something even worse? All I'm saying is that we just take a minute to think about it."Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-20, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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- Ockham
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Re: Loki (2021)
What a lovely end to a wonderful first series. Loki season 1 is hands down top tier MCU material, and I'm so happy to see it setting a trend for the space-magic side of MCU. The spy-soldier side is not bad by a long shot, but Loki really made the MCU
greatexciting again.
As an admitted Loki-Sylvie romance supporter I loved the dynamic of these two, and the place where they both ended is full of potential. Sylvie is very much On A (Revenge) Mission, and in typical narcissist fashion the self-centered righteous tunnel vision let her down a dark path that she might come to regret. Our Loki, post NYC invasion and having caught up with what his revenge path ends up bringing, is one step ahead of her and sees things from a different perspective."Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"
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2021-07-20, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Loki (2021)
Originally Posted by Clertar
Loki season 1 is hands down top tier MCU material….
I was disappointed enough that I’m not especially longing to get to Season Two…and yet, tomorrow morning has a certain empty feel.
Originally Posted Clertar
As an admitted Loki-Sylvie romance supporter I loved the dynamic of these two, and the place where they both ended is full of potential.
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2021-07-20, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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2021-07-20, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
I can appreciate the chemistry between the two actors, but if the show plans on deepening/pursuing the relationship angle I really do hope they narratively/metaphysically "distance" Loki and Sylvie a bit further from each other next season. The meme groups I'm in were having a field day with that kiss, and Disney tends to be somewhat reactionary to fan "feedback."
(Also, funny note from the previous episode - why does a frost giant need a blanket anyway?)
The same can be said of thoughtless regime change.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-20, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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2021-07-20, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-20, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: Loki (2021)
That is not true
Spoiler: Has not been a week yet, so spoiler blocks
You are asking for a method of Elenchus, also called Elenctic method, or Socratic debate. You are asking for a cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, to argue the nature of reality, the nature of opinion, and the nature of appearances.
But you forgot one key fact, He Who Remains does not want those things!
He has eliminated all rivals, rivals of his own variants, but also he has no one up in his castle besides Miss Minutes. He does not want to have a dialogue or come to a "cooperative" understanding, He Who Remains does not believe in cooperation only pruning, he is a mass murder beyond the ability to put into language. And he likes this creation of his, treating people like objects, and eliminating their ability to think, for any variant he eliminates.
A solitary person at the end of time who just wants to dominate all of realities in all times, past, present, future, to the point newtonian physics of cause and effect do not work, cause does not lead to effect for he will just go back in time and eliminate whatever he feels is a deviation and thus he has made the time-line into a time-loop.
He Who Remains is a Sophist. A one man judge and jury who is not able to concieve of himself being wrong for he will just rewrite all of reality to not accept anything else in his narcissism, in his "ground hog's day."
I say no to "Dr Pangloss" (also called Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz for that is the real life person, and Pangloss was a satire) , He Who Remains may say this is Optimism, that this is the best of all possible worlds, but you can't make a newtonian claim like that when you rewrite cause and effect.
Was it "REALLY" necessary to eliminate all variants to achieve this goal? If not everything follows than you can't say it was "All For The Best."
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Yes if Sylvie kills He Who Remains her obligations do not end and it is her moral duty to still help other people. But what He Who Remains offers is not a world free of moral duty of obligation, he has created a system of where you have the duty to die when he says so and you can't argue, you can't change, you must accept the outcome and you are probably not even aware of it happening in the first place.
Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-07-20 at 02:12 PM.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele