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2021-10-29, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
We do know from either the bonus Dragon Strips or the bonus OtOoPCs strips (I forget which) that Tomes do exist in OotS at least
EDIT: Or was it bonus DCF?Last edited by Psyren; 2021-10-29 at 03:32 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-10-29, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
There's evidence for that available online and for free.
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2021-10-29, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
"The Guinness Book of World Records (1985 edition) lists his feat of lifting 6,270 lb (2,840 kg) in a back lift as "the greatest weight ever raised by a human being"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_A...(weightlifter)
I see that later Guinness books don't recognise this because "while credible" it was not done under sufficiently rigorous conditions. As such the current world record is 5,340 pounds - still more than a str 29 character can lift under the rules.
So that article is an opinion piece seeking to refute a post someone made on a forum that the 3.5 system is laughably unrealistic. The analysis of strength focuses on the ability to break a door (this is based on estimates by the author about how hard he thinks it would actually be) and on an average person's carrying capacity (based on the description in the forum post of how difficult that was). It contains no examination of lifting strength, which is surprising given that we have definite numbers for both real life and DnD limitations.
The author may or may not be correct in his general conclusion that ability scores generally model low level characters - I haven't looked closely. But there are exceptions - strength is clearly one. Intelligence is another where real world people can exceed low level DnD characters.
Yeah, we are talking about different things. I must say that base str seems more relevant than enhanced str to me. Not many people would say that Usain Bolt is not the fastest man in the world because people can ride a bicycle more quickly than he can run.Last edited by Liquor Box; 2021-10-29 at 06:40 PM.
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2021-10-29, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
Those lifts are one offs in controlled conditions though. The d&d system doesn’t really allow for that ‘pushing’.
Meanwhile epic Str characters can carry heavy burdens for hours. And that’s not counting the application of that Str to NPCs and animals/monsters. Specifically, mounts for Large/Giant size characters.'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"
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2021-10-29, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
The Dnd system does allow for it.
What high strength DnD characters can carry for hours is represented by their carrying capacity. The players handbook also specifies what a character can lift above their head, and what they can merely lift off the ground.
I am comparing the 6000 pound lift to what a character can lift off the ground. Here's how the player's handbook describes it:
A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load
off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While
overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to
AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action).
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2021-10-30, 02:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
The point is that horses are much more "adapted to carry things on their backs" than other animals are - but that D&D doesn't account for this.
An elephant might be able to tow several tons - but put several tons of weight on top of its back for any length of time and it will probably be in trouble.
Using D&D rules, an African elephant can carry 9600 pounds as a heavy load. That's more than 4 short tons, and close to 5.
The slightly less strong Indian elephant can manage 7200 pounds as a heavy load (3.6 short tons).
The "moving 5 ft per round" bit is kind of important. I doubt very much that the 6000 pound lift incorporated horizontal movement.
For a lift that did incorporate movement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafþór...ADus_Björnsson
In January 2015, at the World's Strongest Viking competition held in Norway, Hafþór carried a 10-metre-long (33 ft), 650-kilogram (1,430 lb) log for five steps, thus breaking a 1,000-year-old record set by Orm Storolfsson.[22]
But a D&D character can keep moving indefinitely at 5 ft per round, till the player decides to stop.Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-10-30 at 02:26 AM.
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2021-10-30, 03:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
I think there are rules for fatigue, but those don’t usually come up.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-10-30, 04:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-10-30, 04:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
And of course it gets sillier when you add in stuff like spells in.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2021-10-30, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-10-30, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure I disagree with anything there. I'm just not sure how it relates to the discussion about the ability of humans to lift things in DnD and real life.
Edit: Actually, I'm not at all sure that elephants can carry less on their back relative to their size than horses.
The "moving 5 ft per round" bit is kind of important. I doubt very much that the 6000 pound lift incorporated horizontal movement.
For a lift that did incorporate movement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafþór...ADus_Björnsson
In January 2015, at the World's Strongest Viking competition held in Norway, Hafþór carried a 10-metre-long (33 ft), 650-kilogram (1,430 lb) log for five steps, thus breaking a 1,000-year-old record set by Orm Storolfsson.[22]
But a D&D character can keep moving indefinitely at 5 ft per round, till the player decides to stop.
As for moving indefinitely, you are right that the PH doesn't explicitly state how long a character can stagger for. I don't think using a word like stagger suggest being able to do it indefinitely, but I guess some DMs may allow it.Last edited by Liquor Box; 2021-10-30 at 09:18 AM.
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2021-10-30, 09:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
When I google it, that's certainly the impression I get from info about elephant's backs being injured by howdahs and sometimes even by bareback riding.
If taking five steps carrying less than 1500 pounds, is portrayed as a spectacular, once in 1000 years achievement - then surely taking any steps carrying 6000 pounds, which is more than 4 times as much, would be out of the question?Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-10-30 at 09:31 AM.
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2021-10-30, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-10-30, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
Yes. Lifting the weight like that involves distributing the load as much as possible, with the stresses carefully balanced and the force kept centered and vertical, aligned with the spine. It's done slowly to minimize the force -- no bouncing! Even trying to lift one foot would increase the load on the other side, and would create a horizontal force component on the spine. It's a recipe for disk herniation at best.
Last edited by bunsen_h; 2021-10-30 at 06:22 PM.
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2021-10-30, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
When I googled it I found a site which said they could lift 14000 pounds, but I'm not sure how credible that was so I didn't mention it.
https://a-z-animals.com/blog/the-10-...ngest%20mammal.
I suppose the amount Elephants can carry aren't the subject of rigorous scientific investigation. Perhaps because it would be mean to the Elephant.
I was basing it on knowing that war elephants used to carry armour, a small tower and several people while running around in battle - which I would have guessed weights a couple of thousand pounds. Like this:
If taking five steps carrying less than 1500 pounds, is portrayed as a spectacular, once in 1000 years achievement - then surely taking any steps carrying 6000 pounds, which is more than 4 times as much, would be out of the question?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAT
Maybe you guys are right. When I am at the gym and I lift the most weight I can (slightly less than these guys), I can still move around. But maybe when you hone your technique to lifting the maximum possible there's so much strain that you simply cannot move.
If so, you would still need to be 25 str to carry the load that Hamish mentioned by the guy from the Viking competition.Last edited by Liquor Box; 2021-10-30 at 08:20 PM.
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2021-10-30, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-10-31, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
I think we've missed a key detail; Grog says his strength is 23, but his roll is considerably higher than 23 strength alone could roll (assuming it's 3.5 and str 23 translates to a +6 on the check). This means either it's a different version or game system, or Grog gets massive bonuses to door twisting checks.
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2021-10-31, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by bunsen_h; 2021-10-31 at 11:15 AM.
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2021-10-31, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
I really love this idea, but it would take a little more work without Sunny there to disintegrate. Maybe she leads them down a corridor where the floor is an illusion? (Leading to a Wile E. Coyote moment, where Haley defies gravity for a moment until Sunny grins and points down [because she used her head start to pause and zap herself with a Fly wand.)
Eye position is reliable if Sunny only exists in two dimensions... it's still useful, but less so, if three.
(Yes, I'm the type of nit-picker who gets irritated when epic fictional space battles are fought as if they were in 2D. )
I think of it similarly... it's still one of my favorite jokes, but it suffers from detailed examination (as do most jokes).
E.g. even if the power word is Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, sure that only takes up one or two lines. But below it is an explanation of how each syllable interacts with the mana or chakra or whatever in the D&D world. And like Wingardium LevioSA, the exact way they're pronounced makes a big difference. I.e.
Su-, -us: Initiator and terminator codons to bookend the spell, safely transitioning in and out of the energies required blah blah blah
per: Identifies the target of the spell. While saying it your eyes must be focused on the target if possible; blink as you elide into the next syllable. If not possible, you must form a clear mental construct of the target then immediately dismiss it (both during the syllable).
cal: Transitional link between target and effect. DO NOT pronounce the first letter with a sharp "k" sound, it must be something between a cough and a staccato drumbeat. Viz. "the spaghetti incident", appendix 93.
if: Very soft sound, almost completely elided over, which indirectly modifies "cal" and completes the link. Pronouncing it distinctly will interrupt the link by invoking the element of Argaiv, prematurely terminating the spell and leading to a random part of your body being turned to stone for 30 minutes.
And so on.
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2021-11-01, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-11-01, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1246 - The Discussion Thread
Nice! See also: "Oogely Boogely".