[3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

[LoyalPaladin]

Yeah, go Elder Evils, maybe I'll get one of those instead of a Maneuver, or God.
This is precisely why I gave preemptive permission.

What the- I could have sworn you got a maneuver.

[Extra Anchovies]

Well, the orphanage is standing, less so the orphans themselves. And I'm sure that the legions of evil tremble at your shiny armor instead of the cleric who can feed them AND outfight you.

That Holy Avenger doesn't just disappear when it is sold to feed orphans, unless these orphans also happen to be Spellgaunts (MM2, p. 188). When a resource is of limited variety, it is best allocated to those in the position from which it is most advantageously used.

Besides, treating the symptoms of corruption is useless the destruction of its source is sought after as well. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If orphans must starve for the hordes of the Abyss to fall, then so be it.

(if purple is evil, green is chaos, and grey is lawful good, orange [FF8C00] is Lawful Neutral)

[Zaydos]

Threadnaught's Optimal Performance
Sandbox Goliath (Boost)
Level: 4th.
Initiation Action: Swift.
Range: Personal.
Target: You.
Duration: 1 round.
With a moment of mental refocusing you bring one of your aspects to the optimum expected for a hero of your standing. When you initiate this maneuver choose one: BAB, a single saving throw, a single ability score, or a single skill. Until the beginning of your next turn you gain a benefit based upon what you selected. If you selected BAB your BAB increases to equal your Character Level. If you selected a saving throw your Base Save for that type of saving throw increases to 2 + 1/2 character level (this has no effect if it was already higher). If you selected an ability score that ability score becomes 18 + 1/4 character levels before any modifiers (including racial modifier). If you selected a skill you are considered to have ranks in that skill equal to your character level +3.

[Snowbluff]

Well, I'm not tallying the votes. Keep hemorrhaging words. Something surely will happen.

I'm torn, as always. Katanas will do that to a person. I could do ACFs, to rack up some Evil points from Elric on my karma meter before Elder evils. Of course, Great Old Ones caught my eye. It's a bit more my speed.

[Extra Anchovies]

Elder evils. Of course, Great Old Ones caught my eye. It's a bit more my speed.

Aren't the two fairly similar? I could definitely see them sharing a thread, the main difference being the amount of description given.

[Snowbluff]

Aren't the two fairly similar? I could definitely see them sharing a thread, the main difference being the amount of description given.

Eeeeeeehhhhh?!

If we do that, I think we would need a good option, too.

[IZ42]

Eeeeeeehhhhh?!

If we do that, I think we would need a good option, too.

Great old ones are creatures you actually have a chance against, and they aren't necessarily evil (Bokrug is CN), but are always chaotic. Perhaps just title it "GiTP Regulars as Elder Beings"

[Milo v3]

Aren't the two fairly similar? I could definitely see them sharing a thread, the main difference being the amount of description given.

In 3.P Elder Evils are world shifting, while Great Old Ones are more just high CR opponents that induce insanity, are truly immortal and unkillable.

[Extra Anchovies]

Ah. Thanks for explaining the whole Great Old One deal to me. I was calling to mind the various Lovecraft Mythos deities, which are pretty close to Elder Evils.

[Snowbluff]

Great old ones are creatures you actually have a chance against, and they aren't necessarily evil (Bokrug is CN), but are always chaotic. Perhaps just title it "GiTP Regulars as Elder Beings"

Great Old ones would be the kinda neutral option.

But they shall be separate until I am convinced otherwise!

[Red Fel]

Ah. Thanks for explaining the whole Great Old One deal to me. I was calling to mind the various Lovecraft Mythos deities, which are pretty close to Elder Evils.

The distinction is that a being like Cthulhu is basically a Tarrasque on roids with a madness aura; tough to crack and drives you nuts. Elder Evils are beings which basically contaminate reality with concentrated Hell just by existing. The former is used as a plot device inasmuch as he doesn't actually care about mortal life, being infinitely complex beyond our comprehension, and therefore has neither the patience nor the inclination to be a part of any machinations of which the PCs can conceive. The latter are used as plot devices inasmuch as to unleash them is to end the world. Not just civilization, or life, but the actual fundamental essence of the world.

So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.

[Milo v3]

So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.

hmmm... Do Elder Evils celebrate Christmas?

[Extra Anchovies]

So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.

Sounds like my kind of party. My vote's staying with Elder Evils.

[Snowbluff]

hmmm... Do Elder Evils celebrate Christmas?

religiously, not ethnically
No, they're Jewish.

[IZ42]

hmmm... Do Elder Evils celebrate Christmas?

They call it Nylarthotepmas.

[Milo v3]

They call it Nylarthotepmas.

I like to think Nylarthotepmas presents are gifted inside tesseracts.

[Snowbluff]

They call it Nylarthotepmas.

I like to think Nylarthotepmas presents are gifted inside tesseracts.

Only a small portion of them.

[NeoPhoenix0]

There are some pretty weak elder evils, such as any of the ones in the elder evils book. Cathulu is probably on par or worse than them (no i do not want to here about how he has been stated in x game or even 3.5 have you read any of his stuff?), but he is also a smaller fry.

I wish we had some more back story about some of the truly frightening elder evils, like that one that spilt a little blood into the material plane before there was anything recognizable as life and created the aboleths by accident before wandering off into the far reaches of the far realm.

[Extra Anchovies]

There are some pretty weak elder evils, such as any of the ones in the elder evils book. Cathulu is probably on par or worse than them (no i do not want to here about how he has been stated in x game or even 3.5 have you read any of his stuff?), but he is also a smaller fry.

Yeah, Father Llymic (to give an example) is a bit of a pushover for a party who've done their research properly. Cthulhu is probably best represented as a high-level spellcaster with a bunch of outsider HD and racial abilities, though.

I wish we had some more back story about some of the truly frightening elder evils, like that one that spilt a little blood into the material plane before there was anything recognizable as life and created the aboleths by accident before wandering off into the far reaches of the far realm.

Oooh, yeah, I love the Elder Evils in Lords of Madness. Holashner was actually a near-direct inspiration for one of my entries into the Vote Up an Elder Evil thread. And now that I think about it, Shothotugg sounds pretty similar to the other idea I submitted in the same post.

[Troacctid]

I'm not all that interested in Elder Evils. They're fairly obscure, they're relatively difficult to write, they're not a good fit for the non-evil GitP regulars, and they're just generally not as interesting as archetypes/ACFs.

[Zaydos]

I will note that the Elder Evils in LoM are explicitly not the same things as Elder Evils in the Elder Evils book. They are also distinctly cooler.

I'm not all that interested in Elder Evils. They're fairly obscure, they're relatively difficult to write, they're not a good fit for the non-evil GitP regulars, and they're just generally not as interesting as archetypes/ACFs.

Also I agree on all counts. The ones in the official book never interested me enough to actually figure out how to make one myself. Well Zargon did because Ancient Baatorians, but then I realized 1) he was CR 19, 2) they screwed up matching any of the things we know about Ancient Baatorians. Seriously Zargon is not a threat to make armies of celestials and Baatezu team together. And that's what a single ordinary Ancient Baatorian is presented as (only stats I can find for one was "no save, it kills the party if they disturb it too much, nothing short of a Wish spell can affect it, and since this module is for Lv 8-10 we aren't bothering with that"; I didn't say it was well done).

And there's so much potential with Ancient Baatorians and the nupperibos and the Baatezu. Have one kick start the petitioners and nupperibos into transforming and... I'll stop.

[NeoPhoenix0]

I will note that the Elder Evils in LoM are explicitly not the same things as Elder Evils in the Elder Evils book. They are also distinctly cooler.

Is that somewhere in the Elder Evils book? I never read through it very well. Too disappointed in the low level of the Evils.

[Zaydos]

Is that somewhere in the Elder Evils book? I never read through it very well. Too disappointed in the low level of the Evils.

The Aboleth Elder Evils are a specific group of god-like entities. The Elder Evils in the books are a subtype of creatures. So they're more implicitly different things than explicitly but they're defined quite differently. It might be theoretically possible to stat out the former as the latter, but they aren't really the same thing. It's just a case of them using the same term for two things. I think the LoM Elder Evils date back to the TSR days but can't really be sure LoM did a good job of drawing from the older editions with modification.

[NeoPhoenix0]

The Aboleth Elder Evils are a specific group of god-like entities. The Elder Evils in the books are a subtype of creatures. So they're more implicitly different things than explicitly but they're defined quite differently. It might be theoretically possible to stat out the former as the latter, but they aren't really the same thing. It's just a case of them using the same term for two things. I think the LoM Elder Evils date back to the TSR days but can't really be sure LoM did a good job of drawing from the older editions with modification.

god-like? maybe some kind of over-diety that doesn't care about the material plane. They are kinda awesome.

[Zaydos]

god-like? maybe some kind of over-diety that doesn't care about the material plane. They are kinda awesome.

Very vague, very ill-defined, and very good for it. Apparently they have Great Old One equivalencies in LoM (Bolothamogg apparently might be Yog-Sothoth).

[Sith_Happens]

Sandcube of Jurai
Sandbox Goliath (Stance)
Level: 8th.
Prerequisites: 4 Sandbox Golaith maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action.
Range: Personal.
Target: You.
Duration: Stance.

There is a world somewhere in the multiverse for every action that can occur. While you are in this stance, you overlay the multiple worlds and can force the results you want onto this world by guiding another world's events onto this one. This is a dangerous technique, however, that is not without consequences.

While you are in this stance, you can treat any skill check, ability check, save, or attack roll as if you had rolled a 19. Each time you use this ability, take 2 points of damage to the attribute that corrosponds with that roll (no save) after the results are totaled. This damage can not be reduced in any manner and can not be restored for 1 hour while the full ramifications of overlaying multiple realities resolve themselves. For example, you may treat a Reflex save as if you had rolled a 19 but you then take 2 points of damage to Dexterity after determining the total of the save. This is a supernatural effect.

I got the idea for this from Jurai's sig with a little help from the Uchiha ability Izanagi from Naruto. What does everyone think?

Here, take it:

Don't get me wrong, I could see Elder Evils and all, it's just... Man, that's where I live, you know?

Don't worry, what's the worst that could ha-



...Uh, I can fix that.

To spread the Songplague, the first, primal disease born when the world was young.

It causes fevers, and the only cure is more cowbell.

Perhaps just title it "GiTP Regulars as Elder Beings"

Elder Being Sith_Happens, reporting for duty.

So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.

So kind of like this?

[Red Fel]

So kind of like this?

Ugh, I remember that year. I got socks. The kind with toes. I mean, what kind of monster buys those?

[Elricaltovilla]

If people want to do Archetypes/ACFs that's fine, I just likely won't participate since I got involved in these because they were a break from the writing I've already been doing.

[IZ42]

If people want to do Archetypes/ACFs that's fine, I just likely won't participate since I got involved in these because they were a break from the writing I've already been doing.

Don't worry, most people have voted Elder Evils.

[LoyalPaladin]

If people want to do Archetypes/ACFs that's fine, I just likely won't participate since I got involved in these because they were a break from the writing I've already been doing.

Don't worry, most people have voted Elder Evils.

Yeah, it's not like Snowbluff gets final say or anything. Wait a second. That's exactly what it's like. Whoever put Snow in a position of power has doomed Elric. And probably IZ42 as well.