My legend will never die. [Template] [3.5e]

[dentrag2]

"It's all the same... Only the names change...." -Bon Jovi.

An Eternal is one of many creatures that have been blessed by the over-deity (Read; DM) to never, ever die, unlike mere "Immortal" creatures. Although this may seem like a blessing, with enough time to consider it, it is not. Whereas normal immortal creatures cannot die by normal means, when the universe sucks itself into a single point, these immortal beings "cease" whereas the Eternal creatures simply wait for the return of the universe. Most have gone horribly insane from their inability to "stop" but some retain their sanity, and roam around the universe seeking for something to bring emotion back to their hard, chill hearts.

Eternal [Template]
The template Eternal can be used on any humanoid, abberation, ooze, monstrous humanoid, dragon, animal, or vermin with an intelligence of 3+. Use the creatures base stats, unless otherwise noted. Note that the Eternal template cannot be applied to Bio-Mages. (Nod to Zeta Kai. Great class you've got there!)

Size and Type: The creatures Size remains unchanged. It's type changes to Abberation.
Hit dice: The Eternal creature gains no new hit dice, but it's racial hit dice increases to D12.
Speed: The creatures speed does not increase.
Armor class: The creature's AC does not increase.
Attack: Same as base creature.
Full attack: Same as base creature.
Damage: Same as base creature.
Special attacks: Same as base creature.
Special qualities:

Eternal: This creature can never die. If "Killed" the creature falls dead for 1 hour before reviving, regenerating all missing body parts and hit points. The creature cannot be reduced below 0 hit points, but the creature cannot recover before one hour has passed if reduced to 0 hit points. If imprisoned somehow (The creature makes all saves that would permanently immobilize it, such as Imprisonment, whereas a mere 10,000 year stay is not treated as Permanent.) the creature will attempt to dig, slice, swim, or drift towards solid ground or water. Eventually, the creature will free itself. If disintegrated, the creature reforms from one of the specks of dust, over a period of one hour. The creature does not need to eat, drink, sleep, or breathe, although it longs for these things. The creature also cannot be really harmed in any way other than artifacts of at least major level. Although they can be reduced to 0 hitpoints, Major Artifacts, can, upon killing a "Eternal" creature, choose to be utterly destroyed, permanently ejecting the creature from that universe into another.

Weapons of Eternity: If the creature carries weapons, the weapons are of at least minor artifact status.

Quirks: Two Quirks must be chosen (By the DM) for the creature;

Suicidal: The creature has tried every way of killing itself, and is permanently looking for more ways to attempt to kill itself. The creature gains Regeneration 15/Adamantium, and may harm itself for up to half it's remaining hit points to do damage divided up equally among all creatures within 30 feet of itself, but will willingly do things it would "not willingly do" if these involve self-harm.

And I must scream: This creature has gone permenantly insane from a long stint of sensory deficiency, such as being buried for ten-million years. The creature gains immunity to Insanity, Fear, Confusion, and other mind-effecting spells/effects, but takes a -6 penalty on Wisdom and Charisma related checks.

Linguist: This creature has devoted its lifespan to learning every single language. This creature knows every single language, including secret languages, and gains a +10 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Forgery, Intimidate, and Decipher Script.

Negotiator: The creature gains a +20 bonus to every single charisma-related check, due to it's long experience with making friends, bargaining, and conning creatures.
Furious: This creature still hasn't gotten over hating the over-deity for it's "Gift" of Eternity. It gains a +8 bonus to Attack rolls and +4 to damage rolls. The creature takes a -2 AC penalty (Dodge), and barbarian rage 1/day (Mighty Rage) as the ability

At peace with oneself (Cannot be taken with Furious, Suicidal, or And i Must Scream): This creature has reached mental perfection. It knows who it is, where it is, and when it is. It is perfectly calm at all times, and benevolent. It gains a +4 bonus to all Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma checks, but can only deal nonlethal damage. It also gains the ability to calm any creature (As though Diplomacy) as a free action (DC 25 charisma check) into a friendly creature.

Forever Fighter: This creature can never find a place where it does not have to fight to remain there. This creature has had an eternity of practice with every weapon and fighting style, and has trained for all time. The creature gains +8 to attack rolls, +4 to strength, dexterity, and constitution. The creature takes a -4 penalty to charisma. These bonuses and detriments are untyped.

Eternally Resilient: This requires that the creature have Damage reduction of some kind. The creatures Damage Reduction become X/Artifact, where X is the creatures Hit Dice, from an eternity of pain.

Messiah: This creature believes itself to be the savior of every living and non-living creature ever. Although it may be deluded, it's faith cannot be denied. Any spells the creature casts have +6 caster level, and +2d6 to damage spells, when acting in the interests of it's flock, at least in it's head. However, the creature must have taken the feat "Leadership".

Neverending mage: This creature has had, like the Forever Fighter, had to use it's magical spells to harm, when it believes they should have been used for good/un-evil. It may quicken one spell (Without taking up a four-levels-higher slot) twice a day, and has two additional spell slots of every level. Like the Forever fighter, it takes a -4 penalty on charisma based checks.

Eternal Trickster: This creature has spent all of time learning new ways to get into places it should not be. The creature gains +10 on Open Lock, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Search, and Forgery, and +3d6 for Sneak attack, if the creature has it. If not, it gains 3d6 sneak attack damage. The creature loses 1 hit point for every hit die it has, weakened by being repeatedly attacked by artifacts.

Eternal Rivalry: Two Eternals have a permanent rivalry (Both must take this quirk) that causes them to fight for all of time, forever, in every universe. The character gains a +8 to attack rolls, damage rolls, and AC against them and anything aligned with them.
More to come.

Quirks end.
Preserved: The creature's physical statistics cannot increase or decrease, by anything other than the over-deities authority.

So, what do you think? Good? Bad? I'm not finished yet, but open to more suggestions.

Edited for readability.

[Siosilvar]

Formatting please. Use [b][/b] to make bold text, and put spaces between abilities.

[dentrag2]

Formatting please. Use [b][/b] to make bold text, and put spaces between abilities.

Done. Happy now?

[DracoDei]

Good themes... some of the quirks are much better than others I think... perhaps even enough to affect the CR (and *shiver* LA) adjustments.

[dentrag2]

Good themes... some of the quirks are much better than others I think... perhaps even enough to affect the CR (and *shiver* LA) adjustments.

Hmm, do you have any suggestions on how to fix them / new quirks to replace them?

Plus, this template was NEVER meant to be used as a PC template. Imagine the cheese of having a character it is impossible to kill with anything short of a minor artifact...

[The Neoclassic]

And I must scream[/B]: This creature has gone permenantly insane from a long stint of sensory deficiency, such as being buried for ten-million years.

I got this reference. I am so happy; I just read the story last week and now I feel so well-read!

[chiasaur11]

Looks decent enough.

Makes me think of a rather... odd terminal in Marathon.

"I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh.
I have been called a hundred names and will be called a
thousand more before the world goes dim and cold.
I am hero. She has been nameless since our birth,
a constant adversary caring for nothing but my ruin,
a sword drenched in my blood forever, my greatest and
only love. She is the dark. O Lethe, enemy and lover, without
whom my very existence would be pathetic and vulgar!
Our relationship is complex and perhaps eternal."

Hmmmm....

Might an eternal rivalry fit as a quirk?

It is a classic archetype.

[dentrag2]

I got this reference. I am so happy; I just read the story last week and now I feel so well-read!

Congrats.

@Chiasaur: Sure, if you can come up with the mechanics for it. If you can't, i'll get working on it.

[Gorgondantess]

So it's like some odd coupling of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and The Nameless one? Very cool. I like. Definitely not something that could be given LA, though.

[dentrag2]

So it's like some odd coupling of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and The Nameless one? Very cool. I like. Definitely not something that could be given LA, though.

Actually, i kind of did it in the spirit of Tuck Everlasting.

[Temet Nosce]

Hmm, do you have any suggestions on how to fix them / new quirks to replace them?

Plus, this template was NEVER meant to be used as a PC template. Imagine the cheese of having a character it is impossible to kill with anything short of a minor artifact...

Imagining it.... and why is this considered to powerful for PCs again? Honestly, it sounds pretty much like typical high level play. Not even close to as bad as say Epic Spellcasting either.

I do like your idea, but I see no reason to bar PCs from having this. True, it shouldn't be free but it's not even as unbalancing as say Half-Minotaur in my opinion. Particularly since the hit dice only affect your racial, which means most players would get no benefit from that whatsoever. The only serious issue I see is some of your quirks are massively more powerful than others.

[dentrag2]

Imagining it.... and why is this considered to powerful for PCs again? Honestly, it sounds pretty much like typical high level play. Not even close to as bad as say Epic Spellcasting either.

I do like your idea, but I see no reason to bar PCs from having this. True, it shouldn't be free but it's not even as unbalancing as say Half-Minotaur in my opinion. Particularly since the hit dice only affect your racial, which means most players would get no benefit from that whatsoever. The only serious issue I see is some of your quirks are massively more powerful than others.

Would you suggest a way to fix the quirks?

Note: If it's gonna be a player template, i want it to be an epic template of some kind...

EDIT: I'll probably have to change Neverending Mage. +2 spell slots is quite a bit without a quickened spell every 4 rounds.

[Temet Nosce]

Would you suggest a way to fix the quirks?

Note: If it's gonna be a player template, i want it to be an epic template of some kind...

EDIT: I'll probably have to change Neverending Mage. +2 spell slots is quite a bit without a quickened spell every 4 rounds.

Hm, well it's less that you need to fix them than ensure all of them are viable. I.E. the first one is kind of absurd, +2 to fort saves? Compared to the next down the list, which grants immunity to mind affects (something which if I recall right is worth 110k gp).

What I suggest is considering what quirk you consider the baseline for what you want, then trying to make all other quirks seem useful enough in comparison to be valid choices.

Edit: To be specific, I'd suggest replacing the Suicidal fort save bonus with fast healing. It just feels so... appropriate.

[dentrag2]

Hm, well it's less that you need to fix them than ensure all of them are viable. I.E. the first one is kind of absurd, +2 to fort saves? Compared to the next down the list, which grants immunity to mind affects (something which if I recall right is worth 110k gp).

What I suggest is considering what quirk you consider the baseline for what you want, then trying to make all other quirks seem useful enough in comparison to be valid choices.

Edit: To be specific, I'd suggest replacing the Suicidal fort save bonus with fast healing. It just feels so... appropriate.

Fixed Suicidal, and added a new-combat based ability to it.

[Temet Nosce]

Fixed Suicidal, and added a new-combat based ability to it.

I like it. Although you'll need to note how much fast healing is gained (actually regeneration may be more appropriate - up to you... it might be to strong).

You also may want to take a look at "At Peace With Onself", since it only allows dealing nonlethal damage. I'm unsure what to suggest there... Let me take a glance through the others, (also, are we working with a baseline of And I Must Scream? What are we considering these quirks against?)

[dentrag2]

I like it. Although you'll need to note how much fast healing is gained (actually regeneration may be more appropriate - up to you... it might be to strong).

You also may want to take a look at "At Peace With Onself", since it only allows dealing nonlethal damage. I'm unsure what to suggest there... Let me take a glance through the others, (also, are we working with a baseline of And I Must Scream? What are we considering these quirks against?)

I would think we would want to baseline it against Forever Fighter, but if you think And i Must Scream is more balanced...

I added a new ability to At peace with Oneself.

[Temet Nosce]

I would think we would want to baseline it against Forever Fighter, but if you think And i Must Scream is more balanced...

I added a new ability to At peace with Oneself.

Ok, in that case I'm gonna have to suggest nerfing basically everything. Forever Fighter is so bad that it'd probably be better not to have it (Death Attack is completely useless without serious optimization work, and the +2 is roughly equivalent to a single feat... with the penalties equivalent to at least three flaws)

Edit: I somehow missed what you said, and it's not about balance but about how powerful you want this to be. I Must Scream is quite strong, and appropriate for a powerful template. Forever Fighter is worse than useless. Decide what level of usefulness you expect from the quirks.

[dentrag2]

Ok, in that case I'm gonna have to suggest nerfing basically everything. Forever Fighter is so bad that it'd probably be better not to have it (Death Attack is completely useless without serious optimization work, and the +2 is roughly equivalent to a single feat... with the penalties equivalent to at least three flaws)

Edit: I somehow missed what you said, and it's not about balance but about how powerful you want this to be. I Must Scream is quite strong, and appropriate for a powerful template. Forever Fighter is worse than useless.

Balance around And i must scream. I want it to be a powerful template.

EDIT: I want each quirk to make it nearly an entirely new variation.

[Temet Nosce]

Balance around And i must scream. I want it to be a powerful template.

Right, I'm gonna run down the list and offer comments then.

Suicidal: I like the concept, but you need to list how much fast healing (you may also want to take a look at regeneration). My suggestion would be regeneration equal to 1/2 HD.

I Must Scream: Seems solid, powerful, but functional and simple.

Linguist: Bit weak, maybe a +10 (or more? Unsure) to all language related checks. So Bluff, Decipher, Diplo, Forg, etc on top of the known languages thing.

Negotiator: Seems solid, although I have this vague feeling I'm missing something related to magic here which may be abusable.

Furious: Seems solid, the combination of a good bonus to attack/damage and the ability to use the capstone rage ability from Barb works well.

At Peace: Change the bonus to checks into an actual untyped bonus to the ability scores? I might be wrong here, since both the benefit and drawback would be very powerful. Unsure.

Forever Fighter: Rework it. Maybe a flat bonus to AC/attack/damage? Maybe just a flat bonus to Str/Dex/Con... Say a +4 to all three, then a -4 to Charisma.

Eternally Resilient: Seems good.

Messiah: Strange, but good assuming it's interpreted broadly (I.E. it counts for anything done for his flock in his mind).

Neverending: Make the quickening three times a day maybe? Or increase the spell slots back to 2 each level. It's a powerful, but we're balancing against something worth a lot.

Eternal Trickster: Make it a +20 bonus? Even then it might not be quite strong enough with that downside.

Eternal Gunslinger: I don't even know what firearm rules are being used, so no comment.

Eternal Rivalry: It stinks mechanically, but eh. Maybe some kind of bonus against all things aligned with your enemy (rather than limiting it to favored enemy bonuses).

[dentrag2]

All right, I've added the changes. I may come up with some more ideas for quirks later, so check in at some point and tell me what I've missed.

[Temet Nosce]

All right, I've added the changes. I may come up with some more ideas for quirks later, so check in at some point and tell me what I've missed.

Well, other than what you've done I'm only seeing three things. Suicidal still has no number associated (fast healing is meaningless unless you list how much), the Peace quirk is still checks rather than scores (I'm unsure if that's intentional or not), and you need to set an LA.

I'd personally suggest requiring that to receive this the character has to attract the attention of the overgod (read, convince the DM they did something awesome enough to qualify) and slap a +3 LA on it (possibly higher...)

Anyways, I'll check back later. Gonna take off now, I was mostly sticking around the PC because I really like your idea. Good work on this, and I may steal it in the future.

[dentrag2]

I forgot to apply regeneration :/

[dentrag2]

D'oh. I seem to have fallen off the main page...

Anyone else got any advice?

[Dante & Vergil]

I have a suggestion. With your signature, this

[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125358"]The Eternal Template[/URL]
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126916"]The Entropy[/URL] 

should come out to look like this.
The Eternal Template
The Entropy
As for the template, nothing says more awsome badassness then never dying! Love it!