OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

[The Tygre]

Oh my god! That was the most awesome thing I've seen V do yet! Oh man, it just makes me want to...

JOYGASM!

[BRC]

There is no way V is getting away without a charge of murder for this one, killing a noble in (apparently) cold blood will certainly not be a crime he can dodge.

V is definitely getting way too obsessed with solving his communication puzzle.

Apparentally "Those ninjas were obviously sent by somebody else and were just trying to smear my good name" is a legitimate legal defense, so considering that V and Elan were the only witnesses, saying "Kubuto chose to commit honorable suicide by jumping into the ocean with all that heavy armor on" should be equally legitimate.

[Belkarsbadside1]

That was too easy. I smell trouble coming up. No way can it end as easily as that.

V was epic, but will soon get a karmic whoopass for that.

[Natural20]

She forgot to loot the armor. Paint it green, no on will know the difference.

[Forealms]

Beats OJ's trial for sure.

Congratulations, you win a cookie

[Thufir]

Huh...

Not entirely a good thing, but V clearly has a point with the 'resume saving the world' line. On the other hand, even with the evidence gone, I find it hard to believe there will be no consequences for V.

[BRC]

Huh...

Not entirely a good thing, but V clearly has a point with the 'resume saving the world' line. On the other hand, even with the evidence gone, I find it hard to believe there will be no consequences for V.

Hinjo will likely be mad at him, but with no proof Hinjo can't take any official action against V. V won't really care.

[Skaarg]

Hehehe. Well, I was referring in terms of the prophecy than anything else.

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Though I think it's going to be interesting to see where it goes from here. But yeah, V could be in some trouble here... and actually, now that you mention that, it might be the right motivation to cause him to leave on his own. It isn't really like the others could stop him at the moment.

And then he researches the Snarl on his own, and figures out how the gates work, and how to control them... oh, dear.

OK I don't know if you can call it a spoiler if you aren't sure, but I do think you are probably just about right. Maybe not in the exact specifics of what V will do in the future, but in that this may indeed be the four words of which the Oracle spoke.

"Disintegrate." "Gust of Wind."

Maybe followed shortly by "/gquit"

I think that a quote or two of Xykon's (from Start of Darkness) are appropriate when examining V's recent behavior.

Start of Darkness, page 106, to Dorukan:
Only two things matter: Force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style.
And in a pinch, style can slide.

and

Start of Darkness, page 109, (whispering) to Redcloak:
It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad.
And me? I ripped off my own living flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that.

V will eventually remember that his (or her) original ultimate goal wasn't to save the world, but to achieve ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER. Once he (or she) does remember that, it won't be much of a jump to realize that annoyances can be eliminated not just for the whole "saving the world" thing but for whatever else he (or she) wants.

[Lamech]

What in the world V?!?!?!? Killing prisioners is evil, evil. This was not awsome it was freaking stuipid!
I think this goes in the chaotic column too as it will get them exiled probably, and no way was it well thought out; I doubt Elan is going to lie, and besides that magic he mentioned its going to be used against the order of stick. And after that good luck stopping Quar, he can still start monster attacks and their won't be any OotS to stop them this time.

How will Quar be stopped? I just don't know...

It occurs to me that Vaarsuvius shares character traits with Miko. To me, this seems to parallel the assassination of Lord Shojo, with Elan replacing Hinjo.

Both seem to believe that 'the ends justify the means' and have a high (though not undeserved) opinion of themselves.

Hmm... some similarities, I wouldn't be surprised if Elan tried to subdue V right now. Kubota was the polar oppisite aligment wise, and V is probably CG still, while Miko was lawful good, ditto with Elan and Hinjo

[EndlessWrath]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

It was an evil act. it doesn't mean V is evil. (i think) he's true neutral... he goes all ways.

Quickest action to gain the wanted results.

[Shady_halfling]

personally i think this was not a good comic. the giant is loosing his touch. seriously. he spent way to long segwaying from the original plot and throwing to many curve balls at us to cut off a great villain so abruptly. V needs to trance, Roy needs 2 get raised, and the order of the stick needs to regroup soon or i'm gonna seriously loose interest in this strip.

[Essex]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

Actually, it could be a lawful act. There are two types of Lawful Neutral characters, those who mostly follow the law and don't care if it is a good law or a bad law so long as it doesn't inconvenience them too much and those with an internalized code of conduct which is followed without worrying about issues of legality.

V may be Lawful Neutral and dealing with the issue according to an internalized set of priorities. Of course the fact that V executed the man and then covered up the crime is disturbing and may presage an eventual fall to the dark side of the alignment scale.

Given that I've already predicted Durkon's return to his homelands as an undead servant of Xykon, the addition of an all powerful Darth V to the end of the series is extra creepy.

[Ganurath]

"Innocence is the price of Justice."

[Prowl]

From V's point of view, I don't think there's anything evil at all about the act, it was a simple expedient to remove an obstacle to OotS' saving the world. Kubota's continued existence had proven to be a mortal threat to the party and V was removing it. V had no illusions as to what Kubota was about.

As to consequences... well, that offers an opportunity to continue the story arc as much as a Kubota trial would have. So plot wise I'm not particularly disappointed by the direct approach. It's actually quite refreshing to see that finally a villain doesn't get to call the shots unless they are defeated straight up in battle.

If nothing else it makes clear that the latest sub-plot is about the development of V, and to a smaller degree Elan, rather than Therkla and Kubota.

[sealemon]

There's a fairly obscure movie staring Michael J. fox called Greed. The entire movie was a setup for the last 5 seconds. This arc, and the last few panels, felt the same way.

And I agree with the others: I think V just fullfilled his/her proficy.

[otakuryoga]

O



M



G!!!!!!


there i am happily reading along....scroll down and BAM!!!!! kubota dead

I just wish had been around to see that......wait, no...he woulda been so impressed that his lil proto-brain might have moved out of the hated category again

[Swashbuckler]

V. is. THE. MAN. (and no, I don't care what anyone else thinks)

Let's hear it for trial by Disintegrate!!

"Now can we PLEASE resume saving the world?" Amen, kiddo. Screw the sidequests and get back on the mainline.

[Murphoid]

HOLY F&#%&@% S%$&!!! V just murdered him. I mean you could argue he deserved it, but come on.

Now what? Spend the next 20 strips on the trial of V? Or do we just move on as V suggests?

[Draz74]

!!!

Dear Vaarsuvius:

Thank you for not only solving the problem of Kubota so elegantly, but for voicing my own frustrations with this current plot arc so eloquently.

Durkon may still be annoyed at you, but I just lost any frustration you had caused me.

Kubota learned the hard way not to mess with a high-level arcanist -- especially with a neutral alignment -- as a mere NPC-class villain. (S)He's finally learning to use hir high-level spell slots, instead of relying on old mainstays (e.g. Fireball).

[Trazoi]

Let's hear it for trial by Disintegrate!!

If you make your saving throw, you are proven innocent! Fail and you are found guilty! The dice know all!

[Lamech]

personally i think this was not a good comic. the giant is loosing his touch. seriously. he spent way to long segwaying from the original plot and throwing to many curve balls at us to cut off a great villain so abruptly. V needs to trance, Roy needs 2 get raised, and the order of the stick needs to regroup soon or i'm gonna seriously loose interest in this strip.

I thought this was stunning and a reasonable, and fully possible resoltution to Kubota. V was strong enough to do it and it was fully in character. If this has no further consequences and the rest is just a simple non-problematic resoltution, say if Elan and V lie and manage to get this wrapped up without difficulty, I would be miffed too. I think that this was a very good strip, I suspect the ones following this will be good as well; the giant puts out good strips quite consistantly, and I have no reason to say he will change.

[Draz74]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

...

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

Unless V's character development was the real point of this whole arc all along.

[LuisDantas]

I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.

You are not.

I mean, yeah, it ended the problem of Kubota, but I think the problem of Vaarsuvius is just beginning.

Not to mention the rifts he just created among himself, Elan & Durkon and Hinjo. And that is even assuming Kubota is mistaken (or lying) about his own reputation. The nobility will NOT take this event lightly.

[Mr Pants]

Ya know, as I was reading it I thought "why dont they just kill him?"
V just got a helluva lot cooler

[Shosuro Ishii]

honestly, got to say that this is the first OOtS comic that I really hated (594 for 595 isn't bad though).

Kabuto was a cool villian, was something that we haven't seen a dozen times, and was a damn threatening character for having aristocrat levels and what do we get from him.

A death that may as well have been off-camera, that came out of no where.

A very anti-climactic end to what could have been an awesome story (but I am a sucker for political decpetion and intrigue, so take from that what you will).

[EtherealStrife]

Clearly a Chaotic Good act. And True Awesome.

[Jayngfet]

THANK YOU! Without Therkla this would've gotten tedious.

[Murphoid]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

I don't see how anyone could argue that that wasn't an evil act. I mean he was tied up, he posed no immediate bodily threat to anyone. There were a number of other spells she could have used to say, relocate him halfway around the world, perhaps addle his mind, or some such.

Some who live deserve death and some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not so quick to deal out death either.

[Querzis]

Cool.

I liked Kubota but man V was badass. Evil too. Yes I think this might be the four words and it was definitly for all the wrong reasons. Now, in the civil war that will likely erupt because of this, V will commit more and more evil act. I cant wait for him to do a Raistin. V will be even more badass if hes evil.

And for the people who said the Giant was just trying to end the arc...what the hell? V will not get away with this, this arc is far from over.

Edit: I cant believe some people are arguing this was a good act. It just show that people have absolutely no idea what chaotic mean, I feel like the «Belkar is chaotic good» all over again. V killed a tied up man, that was evil. Hes still not evil though but I hope he will be soon enough, hes a lot more badass that way.

[teratorn]

This may be neutral but not evil (the reasons may be selfish but not evil). It saves countless lives, and most important it may save the universe.

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V understood that killing Kubota and getting rid of the body means that there is no one in the fleet capable of bringing him back. Even if the heir to house Kubota were bound to bringing him back, no cleric there is high-level enough, and the new lord of the house may decide it's in "his best interest" to remain with the fleet. Turning Kubota to ashes and blowing them away was the easiest way to accomplish that. The fleet and Hinjo are safe for now, and there is no more reason for the order to stay with the azurites.

In fact given Elan's nature they need to leave as soon as possible (the Kato's can keep a secret but Elan must be kept away from Hinjo). They may go back to their quest.

I don't see how anyone could argue that that wasn't an evil act. I mean he was tied up, he posed no immediate bodily threat to anyone.

Capital punishement, his acts were clearly covered by the laws of the land, Therkla clearly said as so. If he were brought to a court with no tricks he would be killed tied up while not posing immediate bodily threat to anyone. The act is even sort of lawful* for it would follow the spirit of the law were it not for the tricks Kubota had. I don't want to discuss if capital punishement in itself is evil or just neutral. Suffice to say that in AC it isn't considered evil.

* ok, V is not a paladin or law enforcer so it's not lawful.