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2019-11-11, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Finally, a book about Sir Michael Space.
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2019-11-13, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Malaysia
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
*gasps heretically*
Daemonifuge? I remember that from back in the day.
Makes me wonder if they'll ever redo that weird comic series about Blood Angels exiles chasing a lost sword (into the Eye of Terror!), or the one where a princeps cadet gets field promoted when the princeps of the titan he's observing dies suddenly. Also the dead princeps remains inside the titan's mind like some kind of ghostly advisor for the new guy. That was some trippy stuff.Awesome OOTS-style Fallout New Vegas avatar by Ceika. Or it was, before Photobucket started charging money.
General nerd person. Mostly computer games and manga.
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2019-11-13, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Titan: God Machine. The only graphic novel I have ever owned, and still a worthy read.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2019-11-13, 10:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Malaysia
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
That's the one. I like how it depicted the connection process between princeps and Titan, giving us a glimpse at an actual Machine Spirit. Visual metaphor, I guess, but still.
It also showed the connection to be somewhat addictive. Not sure if that's canon, but it makes sense. You go from human to gigantic war machine to human again.
Slightly unrelated, but I remember when I first watched Pacific Rim, I thought about this very series. There's no motion capture shenanigans in an Imperial Titan of course, but at least in the comic the princeps seems to "feel" what the Titan is doing.Awesome OOTS-style Fallout New Vegas avatar by Ceika. Or it was, before Photobucket started charging money.
General nerd person. Mostly computer games and manga.
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2019-11-14, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- Australia
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2019-11-14, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
New stuff
Enjoy!
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2019-11-15, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
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2019-11-15, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Indiana
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2019-11-15, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- A nice, sparkly place.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
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2019-11-15, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
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2019-11-16, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- A nice, sparkly place.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Last edited by Silverraptor; 2019-11-16 at 01:59 AM.
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2019-11-16, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
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2019-11-21, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- A nice, sparkly place.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
I have a question involving chaos forces. So you know there are raiding forces of chaos that drop in and cause mayhem and then leave and some of these members and astartes were from the original horus heresey. If any of them die during these raids, do they die, die for good? Or do they get absorbed back into the warp like some of these demons? Because I would imagine if they die their numbers would be dwindling down to zero as the conflicts and years flow on.
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2019-11-21, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Canada
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-11-21, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Lemuria
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
There's also the time shenanigans of the warp to consider. Just because the Crippled Scar warband was killed ten years ago on Cadia from a material perspective, doesn't mean they couldn't pop out of the warp today to try and kill you.
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2019-11-21, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
The supply of original Legionaires does dwindle over time, but the Traitor Legions can recruit and replenish their numbers just like loyalists. They're just less likely to ask permission.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2019-11-21, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
You say that like the Loyalists are in the habit of asking for permission^^
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2019-11-21, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2019-11-21, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- A nice, sparkly place.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
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2019-11-21, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
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2019-11-21, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Did they? Backwards time travel pops up in Abaddon's fluff and the fluff for the chaos knights of House Khymere. The former learned knowledge from a future version of himself before it popped out of existence from paradoxes, the latter went back in time and caused the accusations of betrayal that lead to them fleeing into the Great Rift and then travelling back in time. Plus isn't it still canon that Argel-Tal was sent back in time to destroy the gellar field protecting the lab the primarchs were made in so the gods could scatter them?
Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
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2019-11-21, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Which is the only time I can think of where time travel actually impacted the past-future self.
Argel Tal is an awful example of time travel, because all's he does is set in motion the events that we already know, happen. Nothing is actually changed. Merely, the story unfolds exactly as it...Does.
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2019-11-21, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Would you consider Lady Brinhild and the other knights of Khymere as impacting the future of their past self?
They form a loop where they only fell because they were falsely accused of treachery, but they were only accused of treachery because they travelled back in time (unintentionally) and tried to get revenge for being falsely accused of treachery in the future.
Thinking about it, theoretically there should be multiple instances of each House Khymere knight, they go back in time, create the circumstances that lead to their fall and then continue existing past the point where their past selves go back in time, so there should be big looping numbers of them unless we assume 40k to work on multiple timelines.Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
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2019-11-21, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- sector ZZ9 plural-z alpha
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
There's also....
SpoilerThe whole thing with Astreaos in John French's Ahriman books. Ahriman takes in Astreaos, and a couple other renegades from a chapter that was destroyed by the Inquisition for disloyalty. It turns out, that disloyalty was Astreaos himself, working with Ahriman after they went back in time.I used to do LP's. Currently archived here:
My Youtube Channel
The rest of my Sig:
SpoilerAvatar by Vael
My Games:
The Great Divide Dark Heresy - Finished
They All Uprose Dark Heresy - Finished
Dead in the Water Dark Heresy - Finished
House of Glass Dark Heresy - Deceased
We All Fall Down Dark Heresy - Finished
Sea of Stars Rogue Trader - Ongoing
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2019-11-21, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Canada
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-11-21, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Yes. But that's not what makes time travel interesting. What makes time travel interesting is the ability to imapact the past of their future self, which causes paradoxes and forces people to implode.
A future self, travelling into the past, to create the scenario in which the future self exists in the first place, is simply telling the story, where the authoris lazyhas already pre-determined the ending, which is the point that they want to arrive at. Which is the same problem that all prequels have. Which also includes the entire Horus Heresy. We already know the entire outcome of the Heresy, all's the authors - as good as they are - are doing, is getting us to the pre-determined point.
Is the journey more important than the ending? Sometimes. But not all the time.
They form a loop where they only fell because they were falsely accused of treachery, but they were only accused of treachery because they travelled back in time (unintentionally) and tried to get revenge for being falsely accused of treachery in the future.
Thinking about it,theoreticallythere should be multiple instances of each House Khymere knight...
Or, you know, just don't use time travel for your stories unless you plan on creating paradoxes or causality problems that change things and make an interesting story.
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2019-11-22, 03:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Durham, UK
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
Time travel is definitely still a thing in the 40k universe; the latest WD mentions the Ordo Chronos and their role in hunting down people who are temporal anomalies. But for the reasons Cheesegear explains I doubt it will appear much as a detailed story: it’s one of those hooks that is in the setting to potentially use but which is otherwise left to the imagination.
Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-11-22, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
There is also the way
Spoiler: Black legion spoilerthat Ashur-Kai is his owngrandpakidnapper
I like how ADB handles timetravel: it is never pivotal or a serious plot point, always just a hook or interesting anecdote. keeps things tidy.
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2019-11-22, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Canada
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
But you're espousing support for a narrative chain that would be 100% journey without destination.
(Or, I suppose, it would have the ultimate destination of everyone (death), but that's not really a narrative conclusion.)
(See below)
But each of those Knights would always do the same thing, causing the same chain, and then the same thing happens. Externally time travel will always be boring, because the only way for it to work is if it works, because if it didn't work we wouldn't have a story. We could have a philosophical (or theoretical) argument that happens to use narrative metaphors - but oddly enough, having an argument with yourself (authorwise) for 300 pages usually isn't a good story, even if it is good philosophy.
Having a paradox immediately and retroactively removes the previous ongoings in the story- or at least renders them irrelevant to the character. And probably the reader, excepting if they're upset about the narrative of the character ending with spontaneous existence failure. Or having the universe instantly implode; a non-option in a shared narrative universe like Warhammer, and not suggested to any writer hopefuls out there. Because people don't like "And so, Ahriman [used the ritual fluff] to go back in time to get into the Black Library, but instead the universe collapsed before it existed and everything is dead."
Paradoxes are the most boring option possible. Continue to use traditional looping narratives if you want to have a story.Last edited by Misery Esquire; 2019-11-22 at 11:14 AM.
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2019-11-22, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!
There is other narratives than loops for time travels and loops seems the least coherent and least meaningful system for time travel: a loop is essentially just here saying "causality does not exists" which basically invalidates most ethics and a whole lot of other things like that.
Time travel with a meta time and new universe creation time travel(you create a new universe that is just like how your universe was in the past) are both a lot easier to write with and does not invalidates causality(Things have causes so you do not have things appearing because they appeared or time loops that exists only because they exists).
In fact time loops are so incoherent and so awful that sometimes the author tries to make a time loop(probably because they did read other stories with that and did not think of alternate forms of time travel) then they try to make it have a cause other than itself because when you remove causality any story might lose entirely any value(I mean you no longer need justification for anything to happen if there is no causes) so by intuition they can not stop themselves from trying to turn causal their acausal construct(while they could have simply picked a causal form of time travel)
So I think there should be more time travel stories that works in a causal way so that people that reads time travel stories then tries to make one are more likely to figure out that if they want causal stories(stories where things have a cause) with time travel they can have that and it does not makes more complex stories.(in fact it can make much simpler stories if you wish to)
Because intuitively humans works assuming stuff have causes and then they usually try to make stories where stuff have causes without even thinking about it because it is a very intuitive idea.
Also did you play Archon?Last edited by noob; 2019-11-22 at 01:14 PM.