[PF] What If Spells Were Feats?

[DoomHat]

Spell Feats

So, here's a thought experiment. If anyone thinks it has potential I might expand it and make it the basis of a setting.
(Note: This assumes mage classes will involve getting these feats rather then spell slots)

I think the easiest way to go about it might be to make each feat grant a once per day use of a given spell as written. The feat's prerequisites limit the level at which it can be taken.

Example:

Lighting Bolt
Prerequisite: Int 13, Spell Craft rank 5
Components: Verbal chanting, somatic gestures, and a small glass rod rapped in animal fur which is destroyed through casting.
Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, you release a powerful stroke of electrical energy that deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per rank in Spell Craft (maximum 10d6) to each creature within a 120 ft. line. The bolt begins at your fingertips.
Creatures within the area of effect who make a successful Reflex save take half damage.
The lightning bolt sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in its path. It can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell's range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

In this way any character who invests in Spell Craft may pick up spells but mage classes gain special class features that allow them to do things like increase their uses per day of certain spells.

The more difficult and painfully time consuming method is to convert each spell into a skill roll allowed by the feat.

Example:

Lighting Bolt
Prerequisite: Int 13, Spell Craft rank 5
Components: A small glass rod and piece of animal fur (destroyed by casting).
Benefit: As a full-round action, make a DC 21 Knowledge (Arcana) check to correctly recite the incantation and a DC 18 Perform (Dance) check to correctly execute the ritual motions.

If both checks are successful, release an electric bolt from your fingertips that deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per rank in Spell Craft (maximum 10d6) to each creature within a 120 ft. line.
Creatures within the area of effect who make a successful Reflex save take no damage.

The lightning bolt sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in its path. It can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell's range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 2 + your constitution modifier.

[Edge of Dreams]

Seems like too much work for not enough gain.

Sure, what if spells were feats? So what?

How would this change substantially improve the game? What new builds, strategies, and ways of having fun does it offer? What problem with the existing game does it fix?

[Hanuman]

Seems like too much work for not enough gain.

I actually really like this, but I agree it needs to be expanded upon.

First off, I do like Spellcraft in terms of how it contextually fits, but this is going to most effectively be used on non-casters and Spellcraft is trained only.

Second, I should point out how little a skillpoint is valued in comparison to a level in a caster, and that your dmg die/ranks only works for pathfinder.

Third, this system needs to be open-ended, as in, the spell should probably go something like "X type of spells from Y spell list of Zth level or lower", that way you don't need to make a feat for every spell, it just needs to be vague enough to carry the spell's general theme.

[DoomHat]

Sure, what if spells were feats? So what?

How would this change substantially improve the game? What new builds, strategies, and ways of having fun does it offer? What problem with the existing game does it fix?

I started thinking about this after asking myself, "What if the sorcerer got the same design treatment as the fighter?".

That being: [Get one class feature at first level and every even level there after from a pool of options available to any class.]

I find it weird that casters get so many more tools then everyone else per level, in addition to a monopoly on all the most powerful and interesting ones.

This is my effort to open up the caster toy box and make them share, like the filthy wealth distributing communist I am.

I should point out how little a skillpoint is valued in comparison to a level in a caster, and that your dmg die/ranks only works for pathfinder.

Changing that value is part of the idea.
I really like and greatly prefer how PF handles skills over standard 3rd ed, so that's the model I'm rolling with.
Also all you need to be trained in a skill is have a point in it. It doesn't have to be a Class Skill, but the +3 helps.

Third, this system needs to be open-ended, as in, the spell should probably go something like "X type of spells from Y spell list of Zth level or lower", that way you don't need to make a feat for every spell, it just needs to be vague enough to carry the spell's general theme.

If I understand you right, you're suggesting something like; "Once per day, cast any Xth lvl or lower Divination spell."?
Not sure what to think of that idea. Seem kinda potent, but not all that broken considering the narrowed scope. Hmmmmmm...

[Hanuman]

I started thinking about this after asking myself, "What if the sorcerer got the same design treatment as the fighter?".

That being: [Get one class feature at first level and every even level there after from a pool of options available to any class.]

I find it weird that casters get so many more tools then everyone else per level, in addition to a monopoly on all the most powerful and interesting ones.

This is my effort to open up the caster toy box and make them share, like the filthy wealth distributing communist I am.

If you're the same guy who did the chewy skill checks homebrew then I like your work and your "inventive" approach, I think I still have a campaign that used a rough draft of those skillcheck rules in it's on-paper homebrew. (Quite an honor considering how seldom I bother to put rules on-paper, and for how much homebrew I go through.)

Fighters get plenty of options and action economy utility, as long as they are disciplined in the use of stances, maneuvers, boosts and strikes, if you catch my drift

Changing that value is part of the idea.
I really like and greatly prefer how PF handles skills over standard 3rd ed, so that's the model I'm rolling with.
Also all you need to be trained in a skill is have a point in it. It doesn't have to be a Class Skill, but the +3 helps.

I prefer 3.P for any campaign I run, P being core ruleset and 3.5/P being source. You do need to note that you are using it for the scaling model though or else 3.5 will get a free +3D6 damage on scaling >.>
Ah sorry I forgot @ trained, was pretty tuckered out when I wrote that.
I agree, it's a pretty good model for it, though in terms of how effects scale it's harsh but fair.

If I understand you right, you're suggesting something like; "Once per day, cast any Xth lvl or lower Divination spell."?
Not sure what to think of that idea. Seem kinda potent, but not all that broken considering the narrowed scope. Hmmmmmm...

To the effect of limiting it, yes.
What you want to do is make this a more contextualized form of Anyspell, you want to have it at least 2 spellslots lower than what a wizard can cast, you want it to be any spell, but limiting the spell's choice options puts it more in line with a feat rather than a class ability in terms of power and utility.

I was originally thinking Wu Jen style of fuzzy rules around descriptors, where you can use any "fire descriptor" spell, which can include but is not limited to any spells with "fire" in the title or that state they are a "fire" spell.

That way you could have any "sonic" based spell, and you can use it as if it were a skill-slot, filling it with any sonic spell as if it were a spell-like effect, and in addition counting as if you had learned the spell.

This would allow the sorcerer to get an extra spell slot 2 levels lower than their maximum and act as if they know that spell, adding to their utility both in that one usage and optionally more with their spells per day.

This has interesting ramifications when you consider it doesn't have to be arcane, allowing a single spell to become available to a class who normally couldn't learn it, and to be able to change that spell every time they rest, or perhaps every time they level up they may change it, depending on what's more balanced/fun.

[Xaotiq1]

You might find this to be of some use: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=67.0

[Yitzi]

I like the idea; it'd probably work best, though, with a variant where everyone gets a lot of feats and no classes (with class features also turned into feats), and then they can pick their feats to customize a class.

[DoomHat]

You might find this to be of some use: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=67.0

Huh... Well I guess that's it then... quandary solved?

Guess I'll just go do weird things with/unto the skill system or something now instead.

[BladeTempest]

You might find this to be of some use: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=67.0

Wow... just Wow. I may have to bring this up with some gm's for games that i play now.

[Just to Browse]

If I had a dollar for every thread that link has been posted in, I could buy Rich Burlew a new server.

We need that stickied somewhere.