Rules Questions

[One_Wolf]

I have not yet played, but I have a quick question.

The "Screw This!" card "Solo Challenge" it says:

"If the player already requested assistance, that request is canceled and the offered Loot is kept."

My question is, kept by whom? The player who is battling or the player who was offered the Loot?

I'm guessing that because loot is technically not given until after the battle that it means the player who is battling keeps the Loot, but I am unsure.

If it means the other way then holding the card until after loot is offered would be a good way to really mess with the player.

-One Wolf

[nosajtpno]

I have a few questions:

What happens if I equip enough loot to enter xykon's lair, then unequip it? I figure that I can stay in the lair, but if I leave, I have to re-equip myself before entering again. This matters because I might need to trade one of the loot I had equipped for assistance once I'm in the lair.

Also, I think this has been asked before but I couldn't find where, if I ask Elan for assistance with 3 Sorceror's Fruit Pies (1 Elan face), and he has one Bard Song, how much of a bonus do I recieve? +7 (6 for loot and +1 for the song) or +9 (6 for the loot and +3 for the song for each loot)

[Enaloindir]

My question is, kept by whom? The player who is battling or the player who was offered the Loot?

I'm guessing that because loot is technically not given until after the battle that it means the player who is battling keeps the Loot, but I am unsure.

For the same reason (i.e., loot isn't given until after combat), I would say the battling player keeps the loot.

What happens if I equip enough loot to enter xykon's lair, then unequip it? I figure that I can stay in the lair, but if I leave, I have to re-equip myself before entering again.

This would seem to be correct. The only place I can find in the rules where equiped loot is checked, is upon entering Xykon's lair. Nothing in the rulebook seems to imply you must leave the lair if you no longer meet the loot requirement.
Of course, it might be nice for the more PvP-oriented characters to be able to force other characters out of the lair.

[...] if I ask Elan for assistance with 3 Sorceror's Fruit Pies (1 Elan face), and he has one Bard Song, how much of a bonus do I recieve? +7 (6 for loot and +1 for the song) or +9 (6 for the loot and +3 for the song for each loot)

I seem to remember the Bard Song bonus applies only once for each combat, not once for each loot card. So, you would get the +7 bonus.
If you're into D&D, think of the bard song bonus as a morale bonus to your attack or defense score...multiple instances of the same bonus won't stack...


Enaloindir

[Kumquat]

for support purposes:
-Yes you can stay in the layer after losing loot, as stated by the fourth bullet under "Loot and Schtick Requirements" on page 27.
-The bard song question was indeed asked (by me as a matter of fact) and the answer, which Enaloindir has correct, can be found in the FAQ or page 6 of this thread

As I randomly skim the rules I find the example on page 18 which states that even at a range bloodlust still wins from the snakedragons, and The Thing With The Eyes gets to injure V at a range even though it was a draw originally. I assume this is a special situation for ranged bloodlust because of the area of effect stuff.

[apegamer]

As I randomly skim the rules I find the example on page 18 which states that even at a range bloodlust still wins from the snakedragons, and The Thing With The Eyes gets to injure V at a range even though it was a draw originally. I assume this is a special situation for ranged bloodlust because of the area of effect stuff.

I've edited my answer below accordingly.

[One_Wolf]

I could be wrong, but I took that example to be the reason why the "monsters" (plural) won the battle instead of a draw.

Because Dragon Snakes was the monster card which had the higher defense value that card is used to determine the outcome.

"Bloodlust" caused the otherwise draw to be a win.

But the damage came from That thing with the Eyes, causing 1 wound because it has sufficient range. (The example says the monsters win, but only list V as losing "1 wound".) Dragon Snakes did not cause any damage.

I believed that the wound would not have been taken if Dragon Snakes did not have the Bloodlust ability, because although That thing with the Eyes has sufficient range it was not used to determine the outcome.

Am I totally off base? (Note: I still have not played yet, just read the rules to death. Going to play Saturday, and want to get it right)

-One Wolf

[Theli]

Yeah. It was "That thing with the Eyes" that caused the damage in that instance. And that monster doesn't have bloodlust.

This brings up another question. If you do a ranged attack with an AOE and it affects multiple defenders, all of which have range to counter...if you fail to win then do you take a wound from each monster with range to hit you?


- Theli

[Kumquat]

ok, lets see if I can do this...

-If you attack at a range you can only be hurt or negatively affected by a monster with enough range to target you back.
-Bloodlust does not negatively affect you, it just changes the win/lose condition, and so has infinite range.
-Thus if a monster in a group has bloodlust and something else has range, then the battle can be won using bloodlust so the other monsters can affect you.

as per the 9th bullet under "Area Effect Schticks" (page 18) "if you lose...lose 1 wound (not 1 wound per targeted monster)"

[nosajtpno]

About the Emergency Exit room: It states that the stairs can not be used when fleeing the dungeon. I understand they can't be used when you've taken 4 wounds, but can they be used when the dungeon is collapsing? One of my roommates thinks that that also counts as "fleeing the dungeon".

[SKarious]

here are some questions:
1) Can I decide on my turn I want to "stay": not moving, but not resting? if so, how many loot can I pick up?

2) Can I search for stairs after I lose a battle? (assuming I don't flee)

3) Durkon moves into Xykon's Lair and faces Xykon himself, and a lot of other undeads. Can Durkon successfully Turn Undead, and after that continue attacking/defending against the weakened Xykon with his other shticks?

[Kumquat]

I can answer that!

1) yes, you can stay without resting, but you can only pick up one loot for the turn as picking up loot beyond the first is a bonus for something else always and you can only pick up loot at the begining or end of your turn, not both.

2) In the page 9 side bar about searching for the stairs it says that you can attempt to find stairs in any room where there are no monsters, so if you lose a battle to monsters then there will still be monsters in the room and so you may not search for stairs. If, however, you lose a PVP battle in a room with no monsters, then yes, you may search for the stairs assuming that the battle did not immediately end your turn.

3) Yes, Durkon can turn the undead from under Xykon. However, a little searching has me finding that on page five of this thread it was said that when Haley Swiped something it did not remove the top monster from the stack, so she could not continue to battle. I assume this would also work the same way with turn undead, though I can't find it spelled out specifically anywhere. So I would say no, you can not continue to beat up Xykon after rekilling his undead from under him.

[Skjaldbakka]

This also applies to dealing with Xykon. Can you use Elan’s Poorly Planned Illusion to move in a low-power support stealer into Xykon’s room to reduce Xykon’s defense and then follow up with more Area Effect shticks to either weed out Xykon’s supporters or to take Xykon himself out?

Actually, Xykon always floats to the top of the stack, so that would not be an issue anyway.

[Totally Guy]

3) Yes, Durkon can turn the undead from under Xykon. However, a little searching has me finding that on page five of this thread it was said that when Haley Swiped something it did not remove the top monster from the stack, so she could not continue to battle. I assume this would also work the same way with turn undead, though I can't find it spelled out specifically anywhere. So I would say no, you can not continue to beat up Xykon after rekilling his undead from under him.

I agree with you but for a different reason. The Turn Undead card is an area effect shtick so by the last point on page 18 the combat stops after the shtick is resolved.

I know that you can target all the undead under Xykon with that trick however it still feels wrong. I can't see the logic that allows the thing with eyes (that has enchanted) to act as the defence score for the monsters (against a fireball if it has the highest defence) whilst Xykon's ability to avoid be turned doesn't allow Xykon (as an undead) to represent the monsters.

[squidly_bard]

what's the point of having a monster with high defense!!?!?!? you just attack it! on nthe other hand you HAVE 2 defend the first turn so there's a point in monsters with high attack. really

[Melange]

Something about Haley has been bugging me.... Her Longbow and Sneak Attack seem backwards. Her Longbow increases her defense and range, and her sneak attack increases her Attack at range 0. This seems counter intuitive, since you cannot make ranged defenses (unless against the Surprise Screw This card), and you really don't want to attack from melee with Haley, the whole point of her is attacking from range...

I was figuring what should happen is Longbow boost increases attack +2 and Range while Sneak attack boosts defense by +1 (since they still end up with +5/+5 at the end).

This just seems to make more sense considering how her moves are used and how she is expected to be played...

[irlpotato]

what's the point of having a monster with high defense!!?!?!? you just attack it! on nthe other hand you HAVE 2 defend the first turn so there's a point in monsters with high attack. really

You're question is a bit hard to understand: but what the hell. On your first battle you have to defend, but on subsequent ones you can choose to attack or defend. In this case its a matter of balancing your attack/defense stats against its attack/defense stats...

so the point of having monsters with high defense is so that players might choose to defend against it during a battle, if that player had a weak attack score.

[Melange]

so the point of having monsters with high defense is so that players might choose to defend against it during a battle, if that player had a weak attack score.

Fortunately monsters with obscenly high defense tend to also have hide... Also the other reason they have high defense is that if you just had combat and lost, then when you start your next turn you decide to try and kill it again, now you HAVE to attack since you are battling before moving.

[Skjaldbakka]

Something about Haley has been bugging me.... Her Longbow and Sneak Attack seem backwards. Her Longbow increases her defense and range, and her sneak attack increases her Attack at range 0. This seems counter intuitive, since you cannot make ranged defenses (unless against the Surprise Screw This card), and you really don't want to attack from melee with Haley, the whole point of her is attacking from range...

I was figuring what should happen is Longbow boost increases attack +2 and Range while Sneak attack boosts defense by +1 (since they still end up with +5/+5 at the end).

This just seems to make more sense considering how her moves are used and how she is expected to be played...

I don't see what you mean. I don't see attacking at range as Haley's strategy, except to steal loot from palyers while they rest. I've found that she is pretty much Roy's equal for the first fight of a stack. Roy of course gets stronger for each monster he defeats, but Haley still pretty much wins.

I played a Roy vs. Haley game Friday and the end result was that Haley had more of ROY's loot than Roy did. Roy couldn't even get to Xykon's lair.

Not to mention that thematically Sneak Attack ought to be, you know, an attack. I kinda wonder why you get any defense bonus from sneak attack at all, since defending implies the other guy is attacking (and would thus have inititiative).

[Melange]

I don't see what you mean. I don't see attacking at range as Haley's strategy, except to steal loot from palyers while they rest. I've found that she is pretty much Roy's equal for the first fight of a stack. Roy of course gets stronger for each monster he defeats, but Haley still pretty much wins.

Haley has a bow, and even in the instructions it talks about her major advantage being that she can attack from range. Unfortunately the longbow boost seems to think otherwise.

Not to mention that thematically Sneak Attack ought to be, you know, an attack. I kinda wonder why you get any defense bonus from sneak attack at all, since defending implies the other guy is attacking (and would thus have inititiative).

I the defense bonus being that she stole initiative from the enemy (ie the comic with Trigak... it tries to surprise her, elan, and belkar, but she steal initiative and sneak-attacks.... twice....). I think that sort of action works hand-in-hand with defense stat, not attack stat.

[SKarious]

I don't see what you mean. I don't see attacking at range as Haley's strategy, except to steal loot from palyers while they rest.

You can't steal loot with a ranged attack, you have to be at range 0.

also, a question: can I play "Surprise!" on myself?

[apegamer]

About the Emergency Exit room: It states that the stairs can not be used when fleeing the dungeon. I understand they can't be used when you've taken 4 wounds, but can they be used when the dungeon is collapsing? One of my roommates thinks that that also counts as "fleeing the dungeon".

Yes, you can use Emergency Exit while the dungeon is collapsing.

[apegamer]

I agree with you but for a different reason. The Turn Undead card is an area effect shtick so by the last point on page 18 the combat stops after the shtick is resolved.

I know that you can target all the undead under Xykon with that trick however it still feels wrong. I can't see the logic that allows the thing with eyes (that has enchanted) to act as the defence score for the monsters (against a fireball if it has the highest defence) whilst Xykon's ability to avoid be turned doesn't allow Xykon (as an undead) to represent the monsters.

He's right - the 5th bullet under Area Effect Shticks on page 18 clarifies that the stack can be affected, even if the monster itself cannot. Note that Xykon would still count in the number of monsters affected by the Area Effect shtick (if it was V's Fireball instead of Durkon's Turn Undead, for instance.)

[Ptarth]

Durkon's Turn Undead cannot be used against Xykon ... (and that) card cannot be used at all during that battle.

Back on page 4 The Giant says the opposite.

Turn Undead specifically says right on the card that you can't use it against Xykon. Treat Xykon as simply not being there for the purpose of using that shtick; the card just ignores him. Note that you CAN use it at Range 0 even if Xykon is the top monster, it just doesn't affect him. Technically, the top monster IS undead, even if it is a monster with a specific immunity to the shtick, making the conditions needed to use the card true. Thus, you can use the shtick.

Turning Xykon's undead out from under him is a great strategy, by the way. You bypass Xykon's ultrahigh Defense because he cannot be affected by the card!

Consensus?

[Melange]

I'm still waiting for an official answer on the Haley issue. If the Giant or Ape can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate.

[Arcade]

Fortunately monsters with obscenly high defense tend to also have hide... Also the other reason they have high defense is that if you just had combat and lost, then when you start your next turn you decide to try and kill it again, now you HAVE to attack since you are battling before moving.

This isn't true. When you initiate an attack on a monster in the same square, you can choose to attack or defend. If a weapon or magic schtick has a range, it is still not considered a ranged attack when used at range 0, so you still get the choice between attack and defense.

If you attack a player however, you must always attack.

[Melange]

The rules state that you are attacking if:
-you havent moved yet
-you are attacking a player
-you killed a monster and wish to continue you may choose to attack

All other times you are defending

It's right there on the back of the rules card. Thus if you are getting into combat with a monster when you start in the room, the first scenario is true and you're attacking

NOTE: If you want to start a battle by defending againt a monster in your room... you CAN use the Screw This! Card "Surprise" at the beginning of your turn so you are now on the defense... (I Think)

[Arcade]

Well, pinch my cheek and call me Susan. Here we've been playing that all wrong, but it's spelt out clearly enough. Thanks.

[apegamer]

I'm still waiting for an official answer on the Haley issue. If the Giant or Ape can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate.

Sorry, been VERY busy. I'll look at this thread tonight and get you an answer.

I read it quickly and my quick, unthought-out answer after probably not understanding the original question is that a good defense for a ranged shtick is good for PvP. But let me read it closer tonight.

[lokistang]

I have a question that I might have over looked but anytime i play it seems to me that look is a little over the top. the way i have read the loot cards is there is no limit to asking for help for people ie haley, roy, and elan are on a level with v. V ask all for help giving roy three loot cards (each with two faces), haley two loot (one with three faces, one with two) and elan a loot card (drool factor two) giving a plus 26 in a attack. is this how loot works? or is it one card per person?

[Arcade]

I have a question that I might have over looked but anytime i play it seems to me that look is a little over the top. the way i have read the loot cards is there is no limit to asking for help for people ie haley, roy, and elan are on a level with v. V ask all for help giving roy three loot cards (each with two faces), haley two loot (one with three faces, one with two) and elan a loot card (drool factor two) giving a plus 26 in a attack. is this how loot works? or is it one card per person?

That is how loot works. You have to realize though that getting all of that loot back is pretty tough and likely not worth the big bonus you are getting in return. Maybe if you are fighting Xykon, but that's about it.