Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

[Zevox]

Given the number of goofball jokes and moments in both movies, I struggle to understand why you think anybody is expected to take everything completely seriously.

Having a few jokes here and there doesn't stop the majority of the film from being presented completely seriously, including the moments that undermine Kylo's credibility as a threat and show Rey's progression in learning to use the force happening very rapidly. The films aren't parodies like Spaceballs or over the top goofball films that just have fun with everything like Guardians of the Galaxy, they're still very much trying to be as serious as the other Star Wars films.

[Frozen_Feet]

Taking itself way too seriously is part of the farce.

[Keltest]

Having a few jokes here and there doesn't stop the majority of the film from being presented completely seriously, including the moments that undermine Kylo's credibility as a threat and show Rey's progression in learning to use the force happening very rapidly. The films aren't parodies like Spaceballs or over the top goofball films that just have fun with everything like Guardians of the Galaxy, they're still very much trying to be as serious as the other Star Wars films.

Episode 6 had an army of teddy bears. Episode 5 had yoda being a goofball and generally trolling Luke. Episode 4 had a robot and a sasquatch fighting over a game of space chess. Objectively speaking, Star Wars has been rather silly quite frequently.

It seems to me the writers have never really taken Star Wars as seriously as the fandom would like to believe. The idea that Star Wars is Serious Business is probably one of the most toxic mentalities in the "fandom".

[Psyren]

"It doesn't have to follow the rules of Star Wars anymore." Or the philosophy or art direction. At what point does this just become an unrelated series with the words "Star Wars" on the banner?

I think the philosophy and art direction are still there actually.

Then please indicate a change of this magnitude with something more than a single line that tells me...nothing.

Patience, young padawan.

The result of losing a hand and falling down a huge shaft? I mean, I guess. Also, he was with Yoda for more than a day. Exactly how long is ambiguous, but it was definitely more than a day. Still gets completely demolished, as he should have been.

Yep.

As for Ren, I think he had more than just a couple years of practice. There's no real reason Luke wouldn't have started training him from a young age, so he's got a couple of decades' experience with the Force already. I'm not saying the skill gap between him and Rey is the same as Vader and Luke, but there's still very good reason to believe he should be her superior. But she's Special.

She is... and yet she isn't. I like the idea.

Or to use Kylos exact words to her, they were 'nobody'.

Well his EXACT words immediately after that were "they were filthy junk traders who sold you off for drinking money." If they backtrack on all that to make her abilities purely due to being a scion, and continuing the tradition of the "Skywalker Dynasty" as being the only fast-track to Force mastery... all I can really say to that is ugh.

[Peelee]

Episode 6 had an army of teddy bears. Episode 5 had yoda being a goofball and generally trolling Luke. Episode 4 had a robot and a sasquatch fighting over a game of space chess. Objectively speaking, Star Wars has been rather silly quite frequently.

It seems to me the writers have never really taken Star Wars as seriously as the fandom would like to believe. The idea that Star Wars is Serious Business is probably one of the most toxic mentalities in the "fandom".

I largely agree, but the execution is what bugs me. There's a vast difference in the quality of the humor between "let the Wookiee win" and "I have a message. ABOUT YOUR MOM."

Spoiler: Good comic relief character

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Spoiler: Bad comic relief character

Show

Also, I agree with almost everything Psyren said.

[Zevox]

Episode 6 had an army of teddy bears. Episode 5 had yoda being a goofball and generally trolling Luke. Episode 4 had a robot and a sasquatch fighting over a game of space chess. Objectively speaking, Star Wars has been rather silly quite frequently.

It seems to me the writers have never really taken Star Wars as seriously as the fandom would like to believe. The idea that Star Wars is Serious Business is probably one of the most toxic mentalities in the "fandom".

Not seeing how you think that goes against what I said. "They're still very much trying to be as serious as the other Star Wars films." Yes, the other films have some comedic moments, and some things that are just part of the genre that could come across as silly if you look at them the right way. So do the sequels. Doesn't change that the actual main plots of both are still taken completely seriously. The difference being that one of them manages to have those silly genre elements and jokes but still have intimidating villains that can be taken seriously as a threat, like Vader and Palpatine, while the other has repeatedly made its main antagonists look like incompetent fools in moments that were supposed to be serious and threw away the only halfway threatening villain it had.

[Rodin]

Spoiler: Good comic relief character

Show

Spoiler: Bad comic relief character

Show

You could actually just use the same picture twice there, since C3PO in the prequel trilogy was just painful. It's all about execution.

[Peelee]

You could actually just use the same picture twice there, since C3PO in the prequel trilogy was just painful.

Spoiler: Lies and falsehoods

Show

Threepio: I see your point, sir. I suggest a new strategy, R2: let the Wookiee win.

Threepio: No, I don't think he likes you at all.
Artoo beeps
Threepio: No, I don't like you either.

Threepio: Master Luke, sir! Pardon me for asking... but, ah... what should Artoo and I do if we're discovered here?
Luke: Lock the door!
Han: And hope they don't have blasters.

That's some good, sensible-in-universe comedy right there.

ETA: Didn't see you mention prequel trilogy. You speak the truth.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

The result of losing a hand and falling down a huge shaft? I mean, I guess. Also, he was with Yoda for more than a day. Exactly how long is ambiguous, but it was definitely more than a day. Still gets completely demolished, as he should have been.

Okay, it looks like I've got my original trilogy mixed up. I thought the Yoda training came before the rematch. But I guess he spent that movie backflipping on hoverboats and befriending ewoks.

[Lurkmoar]

Okay, it looks like I've got my original trilogy mixed up. I thought the Yoda training came before the rematch. But I guess he spent that movie backflipping on hoverboats and befriending ewoks.

The Ewoks were in Return of the Jedi, not Empire Strikes Back...

The wildlife on Dagobah didn't seem particularly cute and cuddly to me.

Is it too late to chime in that I think the title of this Star Wars movie seems a bit iffy?

[Sapphire Guard]

The traditions of the Skywalker dynasty are limb loss and getting the crap kicked out of you, not fast tracked force sensitivity.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

The Ewoks were in Return of the Jedi, not Empire Strikes Back...

Yeah, the third one. That's what I said. I said I first thought the Yoda session was before the rematch, but that I was wrong about that because they were doing other stuff then like dealing with ewoks.

Don't correct my correct corrections, or you'll confuse my confused confusion.

[Malifice]

Well his EXACT words immediately after that were "they were filthy junk traders who sold you off for drinking money."

Anakins mother was a Slave, and his step father was a moisture farmer.

Junk trader is probably a step up from that.

As to his real dad:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shm...th_Sidious.jpg

[zimmerwald1915]

Anakins mother was a Slave, and his step father was a moisture farmer.

Junk trader is probably a step up from that.

Moisture farmer is already a big step up from slave. Clieg Lars had enough capital to buy a slave, and could then afford to free her rather than hold on to his investment.

[The Jack]

Episode 6 had an army of teddy bears. Episode 5 had yoda being a goofball and generally trolling Luke. Episode 4 had a robot and a sasquatch fighting over a game of space chess. Objectively speaking, Star Wars has been rather silly quite frequently.

It seems to me the writers have never really taken Star Wars as seriously as the fandom would like to believe. The idea that Star Wars is Serious Business is probably one of the most toxic mentalities in the "fandom".

It's a bit more nuanced than that. You can crack a joke and still maintain a sense of belief or seriousness. There's plenty of films you can laugh at that are serious.

The sequel trilogy is bad because it feels like a farce. The jokes are at the expense of the first order, but you're supposed to take them super seriously. You spend minutes watching some space nazi brood when just a moment ago he was hillariously humiliated and revealed to be completely inept... you've gotta spend time while the film is trying to state this dude is the real deal when a prior scene righteously had him punked in some goophy way. Imagine for a moment that the Looney Toons tried really hard to make Yosemete Sam a very dark and serious character who still couldnt do anything right, but they're invested in you taking Sam seriously as a threat for the plot to work.That's what I feel the ST is doing.

[Blackhawk748]

Patience, young padawan...

I've sat through two movies already and it's still not been explained. On top of this, I don't trust JJ to actually do any sort of decent job explaining it. Just look at the last season of Lost.

On top of this, the Expanded Universe hasn't even explained it. There's so little information on it that there isn't even a stub page on the Wiki. To add all to this, Snoke's quote doesn't even have the thing capitalized. He just says:

There's been an awakening. Have you felt it?

So please, tell me, how long am I supposed to wait for some exposition on what should have been self-evident in the film?

Episode 6 had an army of teddy bears. Episode 5 had yoda being a goofball and generally trolling Luke. Episode 4 had a robot and a sasquatch fighting over a game of space chess. Objectively speaking, Star Wars has been rather silly quite frequently.

It seems to me the writers have never really taken Star Wars as seriously as the fandom would like to believe. The idea that Star Wars is Serious Business is probably one of the most toxic mentalities in the "fandom".

Except that I can do that with literally any film, its all about the context of the scene. R2-D2 vs Chewie shows that Wookie's have a temper and that they have the strength to back it up, so you should leave them alone. Yoda is trying to impart a lesson of patience and to not trust your eyes to Luke. On top of this he stops acting silly after he begins actually training Luke. The Ewoks were never actually shown in a comical light. Cute and non-threatening? Yes, but that was to make their appearance at the end killing Stormtroopers all the more shocking.

It was taken as seriously as Space Opera should be, which means that all the jokes were in universe humor that the characters were tossing back and forth amongst themselves. The new humor is explicitly for the audience and is far mroe in line with how Marvel does it. Original Star Wars was very dry, the New Trilogy isn't

[Peelee]

Wookie

Wookiee. 2 E's.

[Blackhawk748]

Wookiee. 2 E's.

Bugger all! And I know better!

[Peelee]

Bugger all! And I know better!

Eh, it's what I do.

[Zalabim]

I don’t want to break the no-religion rule so I won’t elaborate but immaculate conception doesn’t mean what I think you think it means.

Ignoring religion, I think it literally means what the poster is meaning it to mean while the term virgin birth does not.

TLJ seems to want to say that holdo was right, when she clearly isn't. Why would anyone push that idea? To these men, good narrative and well writen characters seem to be sacrificed for an agenda. You can make a good film with an agenda, but with star wars it seems to come at the expense of other things and people.

The movie actually leads the audience along with Poe's plan and "side" and then when it has to say that Holdo actually has any kind of reasonable plan, it bends over backwards to have Holdo and Leia still admiring the mutineer. You're getting an exactly opposite message from the movie than I am.

It was taken as seriously as Space Opera should be, which means that all the jokes were in universe humor that the characters were tossing back and forth amongst themselves. The new humor is explicitly for the audience and is far mroe in line with how Marvel does it. Original Star Wars was very dry, the New Trilogy isn't

I don't feel like there's any way to justify this opinion. Where is the humor that is not between characters and not in-universe?

[Edited to fix quote attribution.]

[Peelee]

I don't feel like there's any way to justify this opinion. Where is the humor that is not between characters and not in-universe?

That quote is misattributed.

[Blackhawk748]

I don't feel like there's any way to justify this opinion. Where is the humor that is not between characters and not in-universe?

What I mean by that is that the humor in the Original Trilogy was things that normal people would say. 3PO is funny simply by his personality, he's not telling jokes, he's not delivering a punchline. He is simply acting like himself and that happens to be funny at certain times.

The New Trilogy, however, has things like Porgs bouncing around inside of the Falcon like Minions in Despicable Me. That stuff is entirely artificial and isn't caused simply by the characters acting like themselves.

[Psyren]

Anakins mother was a Slave, and his step father was a moisture farmer.

Junk trader is probably a step up from that.

As to his real dad:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shm...th_Sidious.jpg

It's true that it's not clear whether Kylo's statement referred to biological or adoptive parentage. But his context seemed to apply the former rather than the latter, in which case "immaculate conception" is out.

[Zalabim]

That quote is misattributed.

Thank you. I ran out of quote buffer, tried to do it myself, and apparently can't tell up from down.

What I mean by that is that the humor in the Original Trilogy was things that normal people would say. 3PO is funny simply by his personality, he's not telling jokes, he's not delivering a punchline. He is simply acting like himself and that happens to be funny at certain times.

The New Trilogy, however, has things like Porgs bouncing around inside of the Falcon like Minions in Despicable Me. That stuff is entirely artificial and isn't caused simply by the characters acting like themselves.

I mean, that's animals acting like animals do, though at the time I just felt like that was there to push the toy line. Which is kinda the opposite of "for the audience" since it wants something "from the audience" (toy sales.)

Also, I still feel like the porgs made it over the Ewok bar.

[The Glyphstone]

Chewbacca never killed and roasted an Ewok for dinner, at least.

[Peelee]

Chewbacca never killed and roasted an Ewok for dinner, at least.

Nearly the opposite, in fact!

Porgs I don't mind. "Yo momma" jokes I mind.

[Mechalich]

I mean, that's animals acting like animals do, though at the time I just felt like that was there to push the toy line. Which is kinda the opposite of "for the audience" since it wants something "from the audience" (toy sales.)

The Porgs are just digitally altered Puffins. They exist because of location choice. Skellig Michael, where all of the Ahch-To scenes were filmed, is a massively productive seabird colony. There are puffins nesting literally everywhere on the rock (I've been there, pre Star Wars, they are ubiquitous). Porgs were created as a solution to digitally overwrite the birds that got into all the shots anyway. If you parked a ship like the Millennium Falcon on Skellig Michael for a few days, puffins would get inside it and they would make a mess of the interior.

Once you recognize that making creating some form of small animal for the Ahch-To scenes was a necessity, the choice to produce something cute and marketable in order to sell more toys follows naturally.

[Lethologica]

The porgs are just that one vacuum droid from A New Hope plus the Nien Nunb laugh scene from Return of the Jedi plus the Trouble with Gizka gag from KOTOR. Not really different from what was already in Star Wars.

[HMS Invincible]

The porgs are just that one vacuum droid from A New Hope plus the Nien Nunb laugh scene from Return of the Jedi plus the Trouble with Gizka gag from KOTOR. Not really different from what was already in Star Wars.

Don't you get it, it's new, therefore it sucks. Also conspiracy by the dirty corporate girls, with cooties. They're pushing out the true fans of Star wars and anybody who disagrees isn't a true fan.

I hope they start mining some knights of the old republic stuff. They had good plotlines, well the beginning of good plotlines. That's probably the nostalgia speaking. I loved that game.

[Peelee]

The porgs are just that one vacuum droid from A New Hope

Vacuum droid? Vacuum droid?!? You dare impugn the integrity of the noble MSE-6 maintenance droid by referring to it as a simple vacuum droid?