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2019-11-01, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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2019-11-01, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Ceres is estimated to account for 1/3 the mass of the entire Asteroid Belt. It is highly doubtful that Pluto accounts for anything like 1/3 of the mass of the Kuiper Belt.
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2019-11-01, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
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2019-11-01, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Can I be classified as a planet? Like if Pluto is out is there an opening? Do I have to be elected?
This is Magic_Hat and I support this ad:
Are you tired of the same old boring, do nothing heavenly bodies? Are you tired of planets with only two or even one moon? I'm Magic_Hat and I believe in change. Elect me as a planet and I'll create over a dozen moon position.
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2019-11-01, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I thought it was and double-checked. The Sun-Jupiter barycenter is indeed outside the Sun. Welp, time to classify Jupiter as a super planet!Sure, I'll give you an interview right now. Question one,
have you ever shot a gun in the officedo you orbit the sun?Last edited by Peelee; 2019-11-01 at 04:33 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-01, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
While I agree with you, dinosaurs havign feathers is not up for debate, that's a hard fact. Pluto being a planet or not is a problem of definitions which are purely human constructs. You can't pushback against facts and call yourself a scientist but you can pushback against a decision by the scientific community.
Maybe a better parallel would be the decision to change the definition of the kilogram from "the mass of that one slab of platinium in Sèvres" to err... whatever operation you use a Kibble scale for.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-11-01, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-01, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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2019-11-01, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-02, 04:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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2019-11-02, 04:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I support the trans-atomic rights. All matter may have started out as hydrogen atoms, but if they identify as a different element I support their right to acquire more protons. The discrimination of trans-atoms must end. I also support same atom molecular marriage. If two elements that are the same wish to enter a union I support their rights.
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2019-11-02, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Tulips Cheese & Rock&Roll
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
It's roughly 13 times too light to classify as a brown dwarf, but we could call it a grey dwarf and define the pair as a double star.
It would be a rather unorthodox pairing for having other planets orbit the primary not far outside of the secondary's orbit.
On the plus side, this would give our system a lot of new dwarf planets as Jupiter's moons are upgraded, possibly even a planet or two to compensate for the loss of Jupiter, depending on the exact orbital calculus.
You'd be left with rather exotic isotopes.
Do you figure with could stuff in so many neutrons that the electron hits them and crashes? What would take take, an atomic mass of a few billion mu?Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2019-11-02 at 04:32 AM.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2019-11-02, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I've never seen what the big deal is with Pluto being a planet. Scientific definitions change when they need to. Or when one idea prevails over another for some reason. Either way it's nothing to take personally.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
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2019-11-02, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-02, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- England. Ish.
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
It's not as if words don't change their meaning over time, or are used differently by different groups. I mean, how many people use velocity as a synonym for speed?
It's just that with velocity the precise scientific term was watered down in popular culture, and most people didn't notice or care, while here the loose definition of planet is being tightened up a little and everyone noticed and some people got in a tizzy.
Did you get a charge out of asking this question?Last edited by Manga Shoggoth; 2019-11-02 at 09:44 AM.
Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
"The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud
"Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee
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2019-11-02, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2019-11-02, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Bristol, UK
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2019-11-02, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Calgary, AB
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I mean, yeah? If Jupiter was out in the Kuiper Belt and the Kuiper Belt was still a thing, Jupiter wouldn't have cleared its orbit enough to be a planet. Assuming that Jupiter wouldn't have been massive enough to actually clear out its orbit anyway. Seems to me that orbital mechanics being as complex as they are, you couldn't just shift Jupiter elsewhere in the Solar system without it having at least local effects.
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2019-11-02, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
As I understand it, a Kuiper Jupiter, with no corresponding Outer Solar System Jupiter, would've likely heavily screwed over Earth. The process of clearing its orbit would've flung comets all over the place, without the OSS Jupiter there to catch them and keep them from going further.
Jupiter is the solar system's goalie. Earth is a small child that has wandered into the goal box, whose head would be crushed by incoming comets and asteroids.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2019-11-02, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Bristol, UK
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I believe Pluto is in the Kuiper belt? Jupiter would need to be further out than Pluto currently is to fail to clear its orbit.
I suspect that's not exactly right, a lot of stuff does miss Jupiter, the extra-solar visitors for two. However, I'm not proposing moving Jupiter, just pointing out that if it was orbiting the sun at four or five times Pluto's orbital radius, by this definition of minor planet it would be one. Which I suggest makes this definition absurd.Last edited by halfeye; 2019-11-02 at 06:24 PM.
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2019-11-02, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
...so? Is Jupiter, or any other planet that is no longer a planet because it's that far out, that far out? By the IAU definition, if I curled into a ball and teleported halfway between Mercury and Venus, I would count as a planet. That doesn't make the definition absurd, that makes my hypothetical absurd.
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-11-02 at 11:51 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-03, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
For Jupiter to be considered to have "failed to clear its orbit" there would need to be multiple comparable objects in that zone.
The existence of the Trojans, doesn't mean that Jupiter has failed to clear its orbit - the job done is good enough.
Supposing the hypothetical Neptune-sized planet in the Kuiper belt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Nine
turns out to actually exist - it would be considered a planet rather than a minor planet - because it's by far the biggest thing Out There.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2019-11-03, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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2019-11-03, 04:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I mean that the earth takes 1 day to rotate, and the moon takes 28 days to orbit. If the Earth was tidally locked to the Moon, then, like the Moon, it would keep the same face turned to its partner at all times.
Pluto-Charon is exactly this. Moon tidally locked to planet, and planet tidally locked to moon.
Similarly, all four Galilean moons are tidally locked to Jupiter - but Jupiter is not tidally locked to them.Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-11-03 at 04:32 AM.
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2019-11-03, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Best way of expressing gravitationally dominant I have found is "does this belong on a map for navigation?". All the 'proper' planets cannot be ignored if you are plotting trajectories over medium to long timescales. The distance to the sun has an impact on this, which is why Mercury can be considered a planet when the same object further out could not be. An object at a similar distance will in a reasonable timescale have an encounter with Mercury close enough to radically alter it's orbit. Further out this would not be the case, as there is so much more room and things happen so much slower.
We can track the trajectories of almost all trans neptunian objects just fine while ignoring Pluto, so it does not need to be marked on our map. That means it is not a Planet.
In contrast, something else seems to be 'herding' things out there, throwing them into weird orbits. An object that is doing that does belong on our map, which is why we refer to it as Planet 9, even though we haven't actually found it. It has recently been suggested that it might be a black hole, and then we run into the question of whether that would count as a planet, as it seems to fit the definition!
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2019-11-03, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
It depends on who you ask. I've seen several articles suggesting that Jupiter sends just as many asteroids/comets into the inner solar system as it sends outward.
And as Fat Rooster says, we haven't yet found Planet 9. It's hypothetical until we do.Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
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2019-11-03, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2016
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
It's a hypothetical that I think needs a sensible answer.
We're seeing enough other Solar systems that it's going to become relevant.
An answer of "No, and we're perfectly fine with that because ..." which Fat Rooster's argument nearly does (enough for me to believe the actual people responsible have an argument), is however perfectly valid.
Anything size based is going to run into issues with including Moons or excluding Star-orbiting objects (Mercury). So I think long term, size, composition and orbit will have to be dealt with separately.
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2019-11-03, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
Frankly, I think the surface gravity would be an excellent metric. It would certainly disqualify Planet Peelee.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-04, 04:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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2019-11-04, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Pluto Isn't Even A Planet?! What?!
I get the impression that even if the Moon wasn't there, the Earth is still big enough to qualify as dominating its zone, and the clearing-out process would still have taken place.
So, the Earth on its own would have qualified as a planet - it doesn't need the Moon to do its job.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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