The Vic Mignogna scandal

[HamsterKun]

What are your thoughts on the sexual harassment allegations against Vic Mignogna?

[Themrys]

What are your thoughts on the sexual harassment allegations against Vic Mignogna?

I believe her.

I don't know the guy, thus am not personally invested in defending him, so I choose to believe the victim until proven wrong.

The victim most likely being a she, as a prominent man molesting young boys would be all over the press and I would know of the case by now. And men do not usually dare molest other adult men.

[Devonix]

I believe her.

I don't know the guy, thus am not personally invested in defending him, so I choose to believe the victim until proven wrong.

The victim most likely being a she, as a prominent man molesting young boys would be all over the press and I would know of the case by now. And men do not usually dare molest other adult men.

When dealing with the entertainment industry, molestation of adult men is all too prominent.

[Calemyr]

What are your thoughts on the sexual harassment allegations against Vic Mignogna?

I liked his take on Edward Elric and Qrow, so I'm not walking in on this blind. But I'm not a member of his fan club, either, as I do not agree with some of his established behavior. If I found some compelling evidence of anything serious, the man would be dead to me. As it is, his open displays of affection for his fans strike me as outdated and unwise, decidedly tone-deaf to the current mentality of the public, but not ill-intended.

That said, this whole thing reeks of character assassination. I have heard nothing but hearsay, conjecture, and rabid talking heads spouting tales on both sides, and I'm not given to trust any of it. On the balance, however, I'm more inclined to see a conspiracy in this puzzle than a predator.

In all honesty, I'm looking forward to this going to court, where people are legally obligated to tell the truth, and where I hope to ultimately hear something resembling the truth, one way or the other. If he is what they're saying he is, I hope it will be a glorious event of social suicide as a slimeball (and maybe a monster) is revealed beyond doubt. If this proves to have been a premeditated hit-job intended to wield social media as a sniper rifle against someone, just because they didn't like him*? I will admit I will find some schadenfreude in that.

* It is possible to dislike even a good man. Differences in beliefs, politics, social convictions, and so on can make it difficult to like a person, regardless of their quality as an individual. I'm sure this post is going to make me very unpopular, for example, and I'll just have to accept that.

[Aresneo]

From what I have heard about Vic he is not the most Tactful person and normally wouldn't have been surprised at the allegations. But this feels more like character assassination then a legitimate sexual harassment claim, especially since many of the alleged victims from photos and videos have come forward and said that they had given him consent before the photos or videos where taken.

[Lethologica]

I'm sure this post is going to make me very unpopular, for example, and I'll just have to accept that.

Personally, I see this and similar outcomes as the only possible product of this thread, so I'm gonna stay the hell out of it after this post. It's just gonna be a bunch of guesswork filling in the gaps between public knowledge with ideology, followed by vitriol about who's taking the morally wrong approach to their guesswork and ideology, followed by inevitable threadlock. A quick glance at recent 'news' on this topic shows that it's just the Youtube/Twitter cesspool keeping the pot stirred - no actual developments in months. Which means no new arguments worth discussing, just the same old ones.

[zimmerwald1915]

What are your thoughts on the sexual harassment allegations against Vic Mignogna?

Who? Whowhowhowho

[Ramza00]

Do we really need a thread for this? What is to be gain from discussion? I can make the case both ways.

1) Some people want to feel informed gently of other peoples opinions on the matter, to take a survey of other people's opinions...gently.

But there is Opportunity Here, and this will attract the number 2.

2) People want their own identity validated, their own thoughts, beliefs, values, etc to be validated by others, to be seen by others. Thus people will not just share their own identity but they will also fight other identities, they will enter combat for they want to spite other peoples beliefs and values. They want to show contempt (a mixture of anger and disgust) for the act of spiting is a form of making yourself feel validated.

And thus #2 always cause #1 to spiral out of control for the people in #2 will outlast, endure, etc #1 for they are getting animating energies and their goal is to rob the animating energies of other people.

So I repeat what is to be gain from discussion? Nothing good can come of this thread I forsee.

Maybe I am wrong though

[Otomodachi]

Man, my opinion is if the allegations are true I hope justice is done and if they're not, I hope justice is done. This is why legal matters are settled in a court of law and not a court of public opinion. The problematic way victims of sexual abuse are treated doesn't change the fact that the general shape of our legal system is about right, even if we as a society are able to wield it incorrectly.

[Peelee]

Who? Whowhowhowho

I had to Google. Best answer is, if you don't know who it is, you won't care who it is.
ETA:

And men do not usually dare molest other adult men.

Let me tell you about a person named Terry Crews....

[Rynjin]

Normally I'd be inclined to believe such accusations in today's climate; too much sexual harassment in the entertainment industry has already surfaced. Especially since Vic has always had a reputation as being a bit of a prick.

But most people used to promote this scandal have gone out of their way to deny others' claims made on their behalf, and very few direct accusations have been made, most of them pretty sketchy.

It reads as an attempt by people that are tired of working with the man (see: bit of a prick) after almost 20 years to get him out of the industry.

[HamsterKun]

Man, my opinion is if the allegations are true I hope justice is done and if they're not, I hope justice is done. This is why legal matters are settled in a court of law and not a court of public opinion. The problematic way victims of sexual abuse are treated doesn't change the fact that the general shape of our legal system is about right, even if we as a society are able to wield it incorrectly.

And the justice does NOT involve #KickVic swatting Vic and the Beard.

[Giggling Ghast]

The (numerous) allegations were very likely true, and accordingly, his voice acting career is basically over. What more needs to be said or done?

[druid91]

The (numerous) allegations were very likely true, and accordingly, his voice acting career is basically over. What more needs to be said or done?

An actual trial. To determine if they're true or not.

[zimmerwald1915]

An actual trial. To determine if they're true or not.

A trial doesn't arrive at the truth, it determines whether a party or the government has carried the applicable burden on the evidence. This is because it is all but impossible to reconstruct the actual course of events after the fact.

Nor is the purpose of a trial to find the truth. It's to determine the degree (total, partial, or null) of liability and the magnitude of either damages or punishment.

A trial's outcome can but does not necessarily change what anyone in particular believes to be true. The outcome of a trial in a highly-charged case almost never does.

[Giggling Ghast]

A trial doesn't arrive at the truth, it determines whether a party or the government has carried the applicable burden on the evidence. This is because it is all but impossible to reconstruct the actual course of events after the fact.

Nor is the purpose of a trial to find the truth. It's to determine the degree (total, partial, or null) of liability and the magnitude of either damages or punishment.

A trial's outcome can but does not necessarily change what anyone in particular believes to be true. The outcome of a trial in a highly-charged case almost never does.

To elaborate on this point:

It's not clear how many of the allegations against Mignogna rise to the level of actual criminal activity. One of the allegations certainly does paint a scenario where Mignogna could have committed rape, and I could see him being tried for that.

But the assumption here is that he would be found guilty. What if he were found not guilty? Does that also make him innocent of all the other allegations against him? Of course not, but he can't be tried on those allegations. So what happens now? Is his career restored, or does he remain a pariah in the entertainment industry? If he remains a pariah, what was accomplished by having a trial?

I would say that unless one of his victims absolutely wants to have her day in court, the matter is settled.

[Peelee]

A trial doesn't arrive at the truth

Not surprised you beat me to it. Druid, the prosecution only cares about what they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and the defence only cares about how the prosecution failed to achieve that. Actual guilt or innocence certainly helps one of those sides, but not always. There's a reason that two of the three possible verdicts are "guilty" and "not guilty" and not "guilty" and "innocent."

I would say that unless one of his victims absolutely wants to have her day in court, the matter is settled.

Even then, if the prosecutor doesn't think it's doable, sucks for the victim who wanted their day in court.

[2D8HP]

What are your thoughts on the sexual harassment allegations against Vic Mignogna?

I don't know who that is and I haven't heard of what the allegations are.

[BeerMug Paladin]

That name seems vaguely familiar. That's about the extent of what I think of it.

Well, other than a mild inclination to believe the thing that subtly reinforces my current understanding of the topic in general. No bias here, clearly.

This might seem like an unreasonable conjecture, but it seems unlikely my view would change based on more information. So there's really no point in finding out more.

Discussions like this are interesting to read for the biases they reveal. At least, if this is about what I assume it's about...

[zimmerwald1915]

It's not clear how many of the allegations against Mignogna rise to the level of actual criminal activity.

Even then, if the prosecutor doesn't think it's doable, sucks for the victim who wanted their day in court.

Don't forget civil remedies, folks! You prosecute your own case, you have to prove a lower standard, and there are damages available beyond the satisfaction of seeing the government punish someone.

[Peelee]

Don't forget civil remedies, folks! You prosecute your own case, you have to prove a lower standard, and there are damages available beyond the satisfaction of seeing the government punish someone.

I'm obviously nowhere near as familiar as you with this, but don't you have to prove damages and can only recoup said damages? Not that thats a bad thing, I'm all for pursuing civil cases as well, but isn't one of the downsides that you're bankrolling the case instead of the state, with the implicit problem that that carries?

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm obviously nowhere near as familiar as you with this, but don't you have to prove damages and can only recoup said damages?

Standard disclaimer about this not being legal advice, and standard warning not to take legal advice from randos on the Internet.

Yes you have to prove damages as well as liability. Your recovery may or may not be limited to compensatory damages, depending on what law you're suing under - various laws provide for fee shifting, cost shifting, punitive damages in the case of egregious conduct (which you may have to prove or the burden may shift to the defense), mandatory liquidated damages (which the defense may or may not be able to rebut), and so on.

Most plaintiff's lawyers in these cases will take a substantial deposit up front in addition to the contingency fee, and may or may not advance the costs of the action (service of process, copying of papers, travel, etc.). And while there can be fee shifting, lawsuits can drag on for years. So yes, cost can be a concern.

[DaOldeWolf]

Do we really need a thread for this? What is to be gain from discussion?

So I repeat what is to be gain from discussion? Nothing good can come of this thread I forsee.

Maybe I am wrong though

Like purpose has ever been needed for something to be put under the magnifying glass on here.


As for my actual position. I just hope that the guilty party receives their due punishment regardless ofthe side. I really dont know that much about the case besides a few people backing out of the accusations.

[Peelee]

Standard disclaimer about this not being legal advice, and standard warning not to take legal advice from randos on the Internet.

So my understanding is that you are a lawyer and you're my lawyer.

For reals, though, my lawyer is Goldberg and Goldberg. If only because they're the only ones whose number I know offhand from those annoying jingles. I'm sure social security/disability lawyers be a great help if I ever get arrested.

[Iruka]

I never heard of this guy before and just from some quick googling ... the allegations seem on the credible side? Mostly because they form a coherent picture for me and otherwise it would require an unlikely big consipracy.
Not much to say beyond that.

So my understanding is that you are a lawyer and you're my lawyer.

For reals, though, my lawyer is Goldberg and Goldberg. If only because they're the only ones whose number I know offhand from those annoying jingles. I'm sure social security/disability lawyers be a great help if I ever get arrested.

Lawyer jingles are the worst. I still know that 'Got hurt in a car' one from a trip to Canada 8 years ago.

[Themrys]

Let me tell you about a person named Terry Crews....

Never heard of him. Oh, I'm sure there are some males who molest other males (hell, I recently read a thread on reddit where a gay NiceGuy(Tm) was described), but in any random case, it is most likely it is male on female, so I made an educated guess.


But, really, beyond my principle of believing a victim of violence until proven wrong (which most people actually do with non-sexual violence, but then forget about when confronted with sexual violence), I don't have an opinion on it.


I was inclined to think Michael Jackson was innocent, back in the day, cause I didn't know a lot about the case, he seemed rather pitiful and the accusing party were the parents of kids, while the kids denied it. Lo and behold, now the kids have grown up and finally are able to speak about what really happened, and it looks like I was wrong. Doesn't pay off to think someone who is just reading the news can really know what is going on.

And when talking about such stuff, in any given case, you are more likely to have acquaintances who have, unbeknownst to you, been sexually harrassed or raped than acquaintances who unbeknownst to you have been wrongly accused of such a crime, so it is clear which option does more damage to the people you know, regardless of what the judge and jury find out later.

[Peelee]

Never heard of him. Oh, I'm sure there are some males who molest other males (hell, I recently read a thread on reddit where a gay NiceGuy(Tm) was described), but in any random case, it is most likely it is male on female, so I made an educated guess.

245 lbs of pure muscle.* Former NFL linebacker. Enormous guy, one of the last people you'd ever expect someone would try to molest. Got molested. Got insulted, belittled, and mocked for saying he got molested, because he's an enormous guy.

I totally agree that in any random case, it's most likely male on female, but Terry Crews epitomizes the "anyone can be a victim" idea.

*Also, from everything I can tell, a really great guy.

[Chromascope3D]

So my understanding is that you are a lawyer and you're my lawyer.

For reals, though, my lawyer is Goldberg and Goldberg. If only because they're the only ones whose number I know offhand from those annoying jingles. I'm sure social security/disability lawyers be a great help if I ever get arrested.

God, thanks for reminding me of that. That jingle is the bane of all Alabama millenials.

[Peelee]

God, thanks for reminding me of that. That jingle is the bane of all Alabama millenials.

Alexander Shunnarah is certainly gunning for the title though.

[Fyraltari]

... You guys have lawyer jingles!?