The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium

[Pyrous]

OK, OK, we can make this work.

The Reformed Index of the Giant's Comments I - The Plantain Menace

The old index would ignore everything else and call itself the Orthodox Index of the Giant's Comments.

I'm going to say:

1) That the thread needs a vote on whether "the thread documents things Rich says that dispel someone's confusion and makes no judgment on whether that confusion was legitimate" or "the thread documents only things that cannot be derived from the comic" becomes a new thread rule, and one of them should be.

One rule for the Orthodox thread, the other for the Reformed.

[Peelee]

What if we just call it a Special Edition?

[littlebum2002]

Will the new index have CGI special effects and a trigger-happy Rodian?

[Markozeta]

I'll throw in a free coffee maker

[Jasdoif]

Let's see....title tally so far is....

• The Plantain Menace - 9
• On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index - 6
• The Giant Writes Back - 3
• Banana Republic - 2

I guess that means...on a saner forum, we wouldn't think back that I was menacing a republic.

---

(although to honor the original quote and I think it looks nicer, I wouldn't capitalize as much and would use "On a saner forum, we wouldn't need this Index".)

I use title case for titles.

That the thread needs a vote on whether "the thread documents things Rich says that dispel someone's confusion and makes no judgment on whether that confusion was legitimate" or "the thread documents only things that cannot be derived from the comic" becomes a new thread rule, and one of them should be.

If you get enough people to support the idea, sure; although as ORione noted the latter is only going to encourage lengthy debates over what constitutes "cannot be derived from the comic" since there would be a rule backing the importance of the answer.

The pun itself is good, granted, but the V is a deal-breaker for me. It'd feel forced.

You can certainly propose an alternative. Or maybe add a qualifier like "Thirty-Five Years Later" onto it?

One rule for the Orthodox thread, the other for the Reformed.

Whoever you're expecting to curate the Reformed thread would be well-advised to do a "Common Questions Answered by the Comic" thread instead.

[Lissou]

What about "On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need the Plantain Menace"? (Otherwise my vote is unchanged but I'd settle for that instead :P)

[ThePhantasm]

How about "The Phantasm Menace"?

[Peelee]

How about "The Phantasm Menace"?

*gasp*

The Phantasm returns!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

How about "The Phantasm Menace"?

Hello there! Welcome back to the Index, and to the Forum as a whole!

[Jasdoif]

How about "The Phantasm Menace"?

...it's gonna be really confusing if that one wins (And welcome back, long time no post-y!)

[ThePhantasm]

thanks everyone for the welcome, and thanks jasdoif - you're doing a fantastic job with the index

i'm just passing through for now but i'm hopeful that in a few months i can return to regular posting. glad to see that so many familiar faces are still around

[Peelee]

After such a long absence, if you don't try to seduce Bruce Wayne while also exacting vengeance as a mysteries, Batman-esque, masked vigilante, i will be sorely disappointed.

[SaintRidley]

This whole long conversation about the tweets only reconfirms me in my position: if it is about the comic, and Rich says it, it does not matter if it is redundant with the comic itself, other quotes, or even contradictory of previous quotes, it should all be in. If it's not about the comic, it does not belong in.

I'm for the inclusion of the tweets. I was not confused, but given that people seem to have gained clarity from them, and they are about the comic, I feel they belong.

Of course, my view of the purpose of the index is not based in ease of use, but in exhaustive and rigorous documentation. But I recognize myself as part of a minority on that.

[137beth]

I'm changing my vote to Plantain Menace, seeing as it is beating the other banana puns.

[DaggerPen]

I'm changing my vote to Plantain Menace, seeing as it is beating the other banana puns.

The Index of the Giant's Comments V: Let's Be Honest, We Just Want a Banana Pun

(This is not actually my vote)

[Mad Humanist]

I vote for "On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index "

[Ron Miel]

Welcome Back, ThePhantasm.

Add my support to Plantain Menace.

[Kish]

Fine, we'll just keep pushing toward fundamentally different goals until this thread turns into a snarl that eats us all. Don't say I didn't warn you when it happens.

Hi, ThePhantasm.

[Peelee]

If you get enough people to support the idea, sure; although as ORione noted the latter is only going to encourage lengthy debates over what constitutes "cannot be derived from the comic" since there would be a rule backing the importance of the answer.

Lengthy debates over what constitutes "cannot be derived from the comic" beats lengthy debates over "whether or not it can be derived from the comic is irrelevant." I support the idea.

[DaggerPen]

Lengthy debates over what constitutes "cannot be derived from the comic" beats lengthy debates over "whether or not it can be derived from the comic is irrelevant." I support the idea.

My main concern is that neither option seems really satisfying - including anything that confuses one person would make the Index too long, but excluding anything that 'can be derived from the comic' leads to a huge argument about whether it can be. I'd rather institute a rule that any new quotes must either:

A. Add information that is not in the comic itself, or
B. Clarify a point on which there is substantial confusion, even if some were able to get it from the comic itself.

So if one person misreads something everyone else got from the comic and the Giant clarifies it, we don't need to clutter the Index with it, but if multiple people didn't get it from the comic, then it should be included, because then that's a trend. And what's more, that's much harder to make a matter of personal opinion/interpretation - while there may need to be some discussion about the number that constitutes "substantial confusion", people posting that they didn't get it is a much more objective measure.

[Emanick]

My main concern is that neither option seems really satisfying - including anything that confuses one person would make the Index too long, but excluding anything that 'can be derived from the comic' leads to a huge argument about whether it can be. I'd rather institute a rule that any new quotes must either:

A. Add information that is not in the comic itself, or
B. Clarify a point on which there is substantial confusion, even if some were able to get it from the comic itself.

So if one person misreads something everyone else got from the comic and the Giant clarifies it, we don't need to clutter the Index with it, but if multiple people didn't get it from the comic, then it should be included, because then that's a trend. And what's more, that's much harder to make a matter of personal opinion/interpretation - while there may need to be some discussion about the number that constitutes "substantial confusion", people posting that they didn't get it is a much more objective measure.

I'd be cool with a rule like this, although I wouldn't die on a hill to defend its institutionalization in this thread, either.

[Keltest]

My main concern is that neither option seems really satisfying - including anything that confuses one person would make the Index too long, but excluding anything that 'can be derived from the comic' leads to a huge argument about whether it can be. I'd rather institute a rule that any new quotes must either:

A. Add information that is not in the comic itself, or
B. Clarify a point on which there is substantial confusion, even if some were able to get it from the comic itself.

So if one person misreads something everyone else got from the comic and the Giant clarifies it, we don't need to clutter the Index with it, but if multiple people didn't get it from the comic, then it should be included, because then that's a trend. And what's more, that's much harder to make a matter of personal opinion/interpretation - while there may need to be some discussion about the number that constitutes "substantial confusion", people posting that they didn't get it is a much more objective measure.

The thing is, under that rule we would probably have ended up including things like the post that basically just listed out the sequence of events in comic 1012. There was certainly confusion, but we decided that confusion did not need Word of Giant to dispel.

[Gwynfrid]

I think adding a rule like this would only muddy the waters. It will be partly redundant and partly contradictory with some of the existing rules, thus leaving opportunities for folks to simply pick the rule that support their point best. We often have inconclusive debates: The way to fix that isn't to add more rules to try to tip the scales in favor of one type of conclusion. That won't convince anybody. When the debate is inconclusive, a vote is the appropriate way to close it.

[Jasdoif]

OK, let's see...next thread title....

• The Plantain Menace - 11
• On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index - 7
• The Giant Writes Back - 3
• Banana Republic - 1

Am I really that menacing?

---

As for the two tweets....

Assessment for Afterlife Memory Tweets
PROPONENTS	OPPONENTS
Sniffoy	Gwynfrid
2.5 cats	Keltest
unbeliever536	Peelee
littlebum2002	Cizak
snowblizz	Grey_Wolf_c
pendell	Kalmegil
tomandtish	Emanick
137ben	Lissou
DaggerPen	Pyrous
Ron Miel	FujinAkari
ReaderAt2046
ORione
Zherog
Gilphon
Ruck
Porthos
Markozeta
ChristianSt
Kish
SaintRidley
Totals
20	10
Current Disposition
INCLUDE

At this rate, it could get in without the possibility of a vote being called on it.

---

It seems those against inclusion feel that the evidence in the comic is clear enough, objective enough or simple enough to solve discussions.
The fact that this index thread has been hosting a discussion about it for three entire pages seems to me to be evidence of the contrary.

I don't really care why. Maybe the people for inclusion are all idiots. Maybe they don't know how to read English. Maybe they are actively looking to undermine the Giants authority. Maybe it's all a conspiracy.
To me, it doesn't matter:

If including this tweet can prevent this discussion from ever happening again, I think that's worth the cost. We should save mankind from such a thing. Let us learn lessons from what happened here, and say to ourselves: "Never again."

Now all together: "Never again."

I'm...going to have to ask you to express your view on the quotes without resorting to conditional statements, before I can count it.

[Ruck]

Actually, it was a Harry Potter joke, but the Discworld joke works, too.

I was thinking of the recent phenomenon of "prestige" TV shows - The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men - breaking up their final season into two "half-seasons" for contractual reasons.

[snowblizz]

Am I really that menacing?

No.
Which is why am voting for the "Saner Forum" one, because I wish we were.

Also Star Wars jokes are extremely obtuse and that banana one specifically is very difficult for the non-English speakers (at least me).

[Pyrous]

[...] that banana one specifically is very difficult for the non-English speakers (at least me).

I agree with this. I usually have a google translate tab open when checking the forum. And even then I miss some puns. This one in specific would be so meta that I think I wouldn't get if I didn't already knew what plantain means.

Also, the current title is the ultimate banana+giant comments pun. We should, regretably, drop the banana theme, unless someone creates a better pun.

[Keltest]

The index V: Were running out of banana puns.

[Emanick]

Also Star Wars jokes are extremely obtuse and that banana one specifically is very difficult for the non-English speakers (at least me).

The Star Wars thing is debatable (personally, I love the theme), but getting the plantain joke has nothing to do with being a native English speaker. Plantain is the name for a fruit native to Spanish-speaking Latin American countries; speaking German or Japanese or Hindi doesn't make the joke any more or less difficult to get (although perhaps Americans see/eat more plantains than Europeans or Asians do).

Edit: Scratch the part about plantains being native to Latin America; apparently they're originally from Southeast Asia, Oceania, and West Africa (which seems kind of random, but whatever), although they're frequently cultivated in Latin America these days. If anything, though, that makes the reference easier to get, not harder.

[Peelee]

Huh. Today i learned, before it was deleted.