Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

[Shining Wrath]

Norville being one of the Knights of the Hunt may explain his hirsute nature. And his affection for ham.
We just saw Tarvek defend his claim to the throne quite angrily. I think he still wants the job, he's just going about getting it in the approved Tarvek manner - very, very carefully.
I do not know why Gil would trust Norville. He seems pretty loyal to Martellus.
And it appears the loyalty of the Knights toward Martellus extends upwards to Grandma. Of course. Grandma wouldn't have it any other way, and she's sneakier than Martellus.

[Manga Shoggoth]

And Norville appears to be betraying his master for a mess of pottage. Well, a mess at least, judging by Tarvek's comment.

I'm assuming if Norville is one of the Knights of the Hunt, he is the one captured when they attacked Tarvek. In which case they are doing the "treat your captives kindly" method, with a side order of the Pirates Honest Movers of Goods to play nasty at the start.

[slayerx]

The question as to which feline would be more arrogant - the one constructed by Tweedle, or the one constructed by Vapnoodle, I think it would be Krosp. Tweedle is full of himself, but Vapnoodle is full-on psychotic.

Neither. They get their arrogance from the fact that they are cats =p

And Norville appears to be betraying his master for a mess of pottage. Well, a mess at least, judging by Tarvek's comment.

I'm assuming if Norville is one of the Knights of the Hunt, he is the one captured when they attacked Tarvek. In which case they are doing the "treat your captives kindly" method, with a side order of the Pirates Honest Movers of Goods to play nasty at the start.

I don't think Norville is betraying Martellus. If he was captured then his presence there isn't an option and it seems more like he's advocating on Martellus's behalf. He wants his master to be the storm king and he's trying to convince Gil to kill Tarvek. Really it just seems like he believes that there is room for Martellus to work with Gil, even though Martellus does not currently think that can happen

[Shining Wrath]

And Norville appears to be betraying his master for a mess of pottage. Well, a mess at least, judging by Tarvek's comment.

I'm assuming if Norville is one of the Knights of the Hunt, he is the one captured when they attacked Tarvek. In which case they are doing the "treat your captives kindly" method, with a side order of the Pirates Honest Movers of Goods to play nasty at the start.

Tarvek's expression in panel #4 of that strip is example #1234 of why you do not write him off as Gilgamesh's comic relief. And yes, I think it makes sense that Norville is the captured dog-thing, and has a dog's attitude toward masters - loyalty is a canine trait, but so is liking whoever feeds you. Which might, actually, be another example of Martellus being really, really smart when he's in the madness place but not thinking things through about what traits the creatures he messes with bring with them.

[Kantaki]

New comic

I like the new cat.

Also, Tweedle is wrong, as usual.
Seffie didn't need to teach the cat impertinence.
It's a cat.

[Squire Doodad]

Tarvek's expression in panel #4 of that strip is example #1234 of why you do not write him off as Gilgamesh's comic relief. And yes, I think it makes sense that Norville is the captured dog-thing, and has a dog's attitude toward masters - loyalty is a canine trait, but so is liking whoever feeds you. Which might, actually, be another example of Martellus being really, really smart when he's in the madness place but not thinking things through about what traits the creatures he messes with bring with them.

Martellus's main asset, aside from specializing in...let's say "creative biology", seems to be that he's almost as sane when sparking as when not, all without the same selfless morals and do-gooding Gil and Agatha are "held back" by, so to speak. However, it doesn't mean he's immune to the flaws he has in the first place.

New comic

I like the new cat.

I'd argue we have enough characters already, but if we're going to get a new one, it might as well be a foil to someone who doesn't already have one.

===

Wait, if Seffie is with Marty, is he stowing away on Gil's craft, on Seffie's craft headed to the same location as Gil, or are they on a completely different vessel, stolen to get Marty out from under Albia's nose? Still going to Paris though.

[Agi Hammerthief]

New comic

I like the new cat.

Also, Tweedle is wrong, as usual.
Seffie didn't need to teach the cat impertinence.
It's a cat.

missed opportunity to reuse her line from panel 5 in panel 6:
„oh? Are they wrong?

[Ellen]

I like the new cat. But, I have the feeling I should be shipping her with Krosp but I'm not feeling it. You need something more than being the only member of the same species who's on his same mental level and not primed to do whatever he says to build a relationship on.

Although, as they're cats, so maybe "relationship" isn't something they're primed for anyway.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I like the new cat.

Not bad so far - still almost a female Krosp, but it liiks like there is room for manoever.

I'd argue we have enough characters already, but if we're going to get a new one, it might as well be a foil to someone who doesn't already have one.

Actually a foil for both Krosp and Martellus. I don't really see that at this stage the characters in the story really fall in to the "X is a foil for Y" so much as everyone is a foil for everyone else.

Wait, if Seffie is with Marty, is he stowing away on Gil's craft, on Seffie's craft headed to the same location as Gil, or are they on a completely different vessel, stolen to get Marty out from under Albia's nose? Still going to Paris though.

Panel 1: "Meanwhile, in another part of the airship -"

I like the new cat. But, I have the feeling I should be shipping her with Krosp but I'm not feeling it. You need something more than being the only member of the same species who's on his same mental level and not primed to do whatever he says to build a relationship on.

Although, as they're cats, so maybe "relationship" isn't something they're primed for anyway.

Granted, you need more than that for a relationship, but they have only just met. Bear in mind that this is literally the first time in his life (since creation/uplift) that Krosp has had to deal with it such a situation at all (1, 2).

But I'm not sure that they are intended to be in a romantic relationship anyway, or at least not that type. As you say, cats.

[Shining Wrath]

Martellus stowing away on Gil & Tarvek's airship is another example of "not thinking things through". What do you think the odds are that Tarvek will think of him traveling with his sister? I'd call it better than even. Especially if the cat goes out to romance Krosp. The minute Krosp spots that cat the ability of Martellus to sneak away outside Paris drops to zero. In fact, Martellus having an accident out over the English Channel would be very tempting to Gil and Tarvek. "We were in international waters, so technically it's no one's responsibility to investigate".

And one does not teach a cat impertinence. One learns impertinence from the feline masters.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Especially if the cat goes out to romance Krosp. The minute Krosp spots that cat the ability of Martellus to sneak away outside Paris drops to zero.

Krosp won't notice a thing - they are on seperate airships. Agatha watched Gil and Tarvek's airship launch, but had to wait for the following day for hers to be loaded up. Still not one of his better ideas, though.

Of course, if she goes out looking for Krosp then Gil or Tarvek might notice an unusual cat, but not necessarly link her to Martellus (Remember - they've not met her before, and Krosp only told the full story to Agatha after they had left). However, I suspect that discovery will be via the Norville method: "Caaaaaaat!!!!".

Seffie could cover for them if she says that Martellus created the cat for her (plausable), but there's another possibility for detecting Martellus - if Norville scents Martellus: "Treeeeats!!!".

[Shining Wrath]

Krosp won't notice a thing - they are on seperate airships. Agatha watched Gil and Tarvek's airship launch, but had to wait for the following day for hers to be loaded up. Still not one of his better ideas, though.

Of course, if she goes out looking for Krosp then Gil or Tarvek might notice an unusual cat, but not necessarly link her to Martellus (Remember - they've not met her before, and Krosp only told the full story to Agatha after they had left). However, I suspect that discovery will be via the Norville method: "Caaaaaaat!!!!".

Seffie could cover for them if she says that Martellus created the cat for her (plausable), but there's another possibility for detecting Martellus - if Norville scents Martellus: "Treeeeats!!!".

Hmmm. So why would Seffie want LadyCat to talk to Krosp if Krosp isn't on their airship? But yes, we know Krosp is with Agatha and Agatha is on a different ship. I got myself confused.

Still, the possibility that Tarvek will guess that Martellus is with his sister is non-zero, just because he's Tarvek. And yes, Norville might find Martellus. I hadn't thought about that, but he probably can sniff him out. And since Norville is not that bright, his chances of successful secret agent spy work are low.

I think at some point Tarvek does kill Martellus, and in a way that Martellus does not see coming, at all. But making LadyCat an important character probably means Martellus is with us for the long haul. A pity; I thought that if the Foglios wanted to clean up the cast that he was a good choice for subtraction.

[Traab]

Nah we need martellus as the present in your face bad guy of the setting. The other is this vague menace thats kinda hard to grasp because her very nature knowledge ability etc is very confused. Martellus is here, he is up front and visible, he wants to rule, he will do what he has to in order to get it, and he has enough support that he has decent odds of pulling it off if he isnt stopped. The Other is Sauron, the big bad of the setting, but doesnt do anything directly really and is this vague evil threat far away. Martellus is Saruman. The tricky mid boss that is constantly moving directly against our fellowship for his own goals. Very dangerous, but more comprehensible in threat and capabilities.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Hmmm. So why would Seffie want LadyCat to talk to Krosp if Krosp isn't on their airship?

I didn't say that she would - just that if Lady Cat was identified as an obvious Martellus construct she could make that excuse to hide Martellus.

But yes, we know Krosp is with Agatha and Agatha is on a different ship. I got myself confused.

And we really need a name for Lady Cat.

Still, the possibility that Tarvek will guess that Martellus is with his sister is non-zero, just because he's Tarvek.

Oh, absolutely. Gil might guess it, but Tarvek is the strategist of the group.

The Other is Sauron, the big bad of the setting, but doesnt do anything directly really and is this vague evil threat far away. Martellus is Saruman. The tricky mid boss that is constantly moving directly against our fellowship for his own goals. Very dangerous, but more comprehensible in threat and capabilities.

It is an interesting comparison, but there's a significant difference here - Saruman's position with respect to Sauron was essentially "powerful but unreliable minion". On the other hand Martellus is absolutely against The Other, to the extent that he has stated that he would give up his throne if it meant destroying her (yes, he could be lying, but I don't think so). He's still a threat, and I wouldn't put it past him to do something stupid (or more stupid than he is being at the moment) if he thought it would advance him.

[Traab]

I didn't say that she would - just that if Lady Cat was identified as an obvious Martellus construct she could make that excuse to hide Martellus.

But yes, we know Krosp is with Agatha and Agatha is on a different ship. I got myself confused.

And we really need a name for Lady Cat.



Oh, absolutely. Gil might guess it, but Tarvek is the strategist of the group.



It is an interesting comparison, but there's a significant difference here - Saruman's position with respect to Sauron was essentially "powerful but unreliable minion". On the other hand Martellus is absolutely against The Other, to the extent that he has stated that he would give up his throne if it meant destroying her (yes, he could be lying, but I don't think so). He's still a threat, and I wouldn't put it past him to do something stupid (or more stupid than he is being at the moment) if he thought it would advance him.

True they dont fulfil the same dynamic between them, I was more talking about the role they played in the story. In the book sarumon was the one who chased them into moria with his storms, he was the one who sent the uruk hai to attack the fellowship along the river where they split up, he was the one mind controlling theoden and attacking helms deep. For most of the story, he was the real danger the fellowship had to deal with as aside from the nazgul, sauron didnt actually do that much against the fellowship. He was just this vague menace in the background that had to be stopped while sarumon was doing all the villainous stuff directly. Thats what im seeing right now. The Other is this hanging threat thats always in the background, and aside from the copy that was in agatha, we never dealt with her directly or even her minions beyond a few revenants and intelligent slaves. Meanwhile martellus is the schemer who is right here, constantly trying to enslave agatha, kill gill and tarvek, and ensure his control over europa. Yes they have teamed up temporarily which is WAY different than anything sarumon did, but I still think he fulfills the same role as being the imminent and present threat while the other is the burning eye floating there and looking menacing but not openly doing much.

As a final note, I can totally see martellus trying to pull a razing of the shire so that even in death he strikes a final blow against the people who dared oppose him. You know, a sort of "in case of death, unleash the hounds on everything agatha/gil care about" contingency.

[Scarlet Knight]

And we really need a name for Lady Cat.

Why? She won't respond.

[Ellen]

And one does not teach a cat impertinence. One learns impertinence from the feline masters.

Of course you can teach a cat impertinence. It goes something like this:

Seffie: You know the way you are all the time and humans aren't?

Cat: Superior?

Seffie: Impertinence. It's called impertinence.

Cat: I can see why your species needs more than one word for it. You have to deal with it all the time.

[Shining Wrath]

Of course you can teach a cat impertinence. It goes something like this:

Seffie: You know the way you are all the time and humans aren't?

Cat: Superior?

Seffie: Impertinence. It's called impertinence.

Cat: I can see why your species needs more than one word for it. You have to deal with it all the time.

Quibble: that's teaching it the DEFINITION of impertinence. Which it embodies.

[Manga Shoggoth]

...And under the title of "can't unsee it"... Doesn't Martellus look odd in Panel 1? he seems to have a normal-sized head attached to a very much shorter and slimmer body. The body is supposed to be at an angle, but it still looks .. off, even allowing for the differences in styling the Foglios usually give us.

True they dont fulfil the same dynamic between them, I was more talking about the role they played in the story. In the book sarumon was the one who chased them into moria with his storms, he was the one who sent the uruk hai to attack the fellowship along the river where they split up, he was the one mind controlling theoden and attacking helms deep. For most of the story, he was the real danger the fellowship had to deal with as aside from the nazgul, sauron didnt actually do that much against the fellowship. He was just this vague menace in the background that had to be stopped while sarumon was doing all the villainous stuff directly. Thats what im seeing right now. The Other is this hanging threat thats always in the background, and aside from the copy that was in agatha, we never dealt with her directly or even her minions beyond a few revenants and intelligent slaves. Meanwhile martellus is the schemer who is right here, constantly trying to enslave agatha, kill gill and tarvek, and ensure his control over europa. Yes they have teamed up temporarily which is WAY different than anything sarumon did, but I still think he fulfills the same role as being the imminent and present threat while the other is the burning eye floating there and looking menacing but not openly doing much.

Fair 'nough. Minor nitpicks (and nothing to do with the actual argument):

Spoiler: Does this discussion involve Girl Genius? It does not!

Show

I think you may be getting confused with the films - admittedly I haven't seen the films more than twice, and I have been reading the book since my mid-teens.

Saruman's part in the story was significant, but really limited to:

• Betraying and imprisoning Gandalf (covered in The Council of Elrond)
• Nailing Rohan down (via Wormtongue) and the kidnapping of Merry and Pippin (covered from The Breaking of the Fellowship to The Voice of Saruman)
• The Scouring of the Shire (and until the big reveal they think he's Sharkey, not Saruman)

The storms were attributed to Sauron (and the cruelty of the mountain itself), the characters commenting on how much his powers had grown.

Even during those sections of the book Saruman is not the main concern. He's a sidebar in the council (admittedly an important one), and kidnapping Merry and Pippin was the result of a joint operation with Sauron's forces involved (and we see a lot of friction between the commanders). He's barely visible himself until The Voice of Saruman.

Generously speaking, that about a fifth of the story*, and even within that fifth there are swathes where he is irrelevent or just as much in the background as Sauron (the Frodo/Sam sections, for example) or peripheral (The chase, and a lot of the time in Rohan; Merry, Pippin and Treebeard, up until the Moot).

* Literally - I measured it with a ruler. I was surprised how little it was!

[JavaScribe]

Snackleford? Is she referring to his lies about creating a new enlightened golden age of second stage sparks? If Albia really wanted to, she could help give rise to such an age herself, but has apparently chosen to monopolize her secrets due to past regrets.

[runeghost]

It is an interesting comparison, but there's a significant difference here - Saruman's position with respect to Sauron was essentially "powerful but unreliable minion". On the other hand Martellus is absolutely against The Other, to the extent that he has stated that he would give up his throne if it meant destroying her (yes, he could be lying, but I don't think so). He's still a threat, and I wouldn't put it past him to do something stupid (or more stupid than he is being at the moment) if he thought it would advance him.

Yeah, Martellus is almost an "anti-Saruman". Sort of a what-if. What if Saruman - still with all his flaws - had rejected Sauron and tried to work with the White Council (Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond). It actually tracks very nicely with GG, although everyone in GG tends to be more hands-on than any of Tolkien's powerhouses. You've got the powerful heroic trio, and the potential rogue actor who's in their "weight class", but who chooses to work with them, even if they're concerned that he also has his own agenda. All against the off-screen but extremely potent Big Bad.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Those are some deep thoughts keeping Agatha awake.
And a wonderful weather. For SCIENCE!

But honestly? From the art I kinda expected a different dialogue.
I mean, all you really need to do is to change panel three a bit.

[locksmith of lo]

lord snackington's golden age

[Manga Shoggoth]

Why? She won't respond.

Of course not. Not just to a name - You need cream as well.

lord snackington's golden age

To give this guy due credit, he was at least on board with sharing the power, even if his power fantasies had gotten a little excessive. Snackleford had no such intention, at least towards his minions - Albia and guests excluded.

But Agatha still has a point - Albia has probably been various shades of alone since the Society of Queens was ... disbanded by The Other. That's why she has invested a lot of effort into trying to find them without the aid of the mirrors, and why she was so excited (then upset) to find out about Skifander.

[Willie the Duck]

Snackleford does a great job of being right on some things, but still a raving loon elsewhere. Kinda Sparks in a nutshell.

But honestly? From the art I kinda expected a different dialogue.
I mean, all you really need to do is to change panel three a bit.:

Agreed. Not since Xena had to suggest-but-not-say has something looked so, well, suggestive. With anyone else I'd assume it was meant to imply a hitherto unmentioned side thing going on, but with the Foglios, I can believe it is just plain cheesecakeishness.

[Scarlet Knight]

Agreed. Not since Xena had to suggest-but-not-say has something looked so, well, suggestive. With anyone else I'd assume it was meant to imply a hitherto unmentioned side thing going on, but with the Foglios, I can believe it is just plain cheesecakeishness.

I was expecting some dialogue along the lines:
Agatha: "Will Mr. Higgs mind if you join the Seraglio?" Zeetha: "Why? He already knows we sleep together. It seems to perk him up..."

[Fyraltari]

I was expecting some dialogue along the lines:
Agatha: "Will Mr. Higgs mind if you join the Seraglio?" Zeetha: "Why? He already knows we sleep together. It seems to perk him up..."

This might be a problem with Gilgamesh, though.

[Shining Wrath]

I think they've changed the art style somewhat. It seems that eyes are bigger than before - or maybe it's just a romantic scene in the dark.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I think they've changed the art style somewhat. It seems that eyes are bigger than before - or maybe it's just a romantic scene in the dark.

Hmmm... Not sure. Go back to the beginning of the chapter and Agatha's eyes are the same size, more or less. I think they just look bigger because it's darker and we have the "eyes visible in the darkness" artwork trope partly in play.

...Although the teeth seem oddly luminous as well...

[Shining Wrath]

Hmmm... Not sure. Go back to the beginning of the chapter and Agatha's eyes are the same size, more or less. I think they just look bigger because it's darker and we have the "eyes visible in the darkness" artwork trope partly in play.

...Although the teeth seem oddly luminous as well...

Foglio teeth ...