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-
2014-05-07, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- the periodic table
- Gender
Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Welcome one and all to the twenty fourth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds, summoning a savory dish of superb swordplay and sublime sorcery.
The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!
For the twenty fourth challenge, get ready to channel your inner Jack Bauer, from Complete Scoundrel it's the Psibond Agent
Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WOTC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Psibond Agent without actually using any levels in it.
Entries must be submitted by Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 19 May, 2014. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman, so as not to influence the other sauciers.
Judges will then have until Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 2 June, 2014, to post scores for all dishes.
Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 4 categories;
* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)
Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.
Recommended style:SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="width: 1000, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class[/B][/td]
[td][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/td]
[td][B]Fort Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Ref Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Will Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Skills[/B][/td]
[td][B]Feats[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class Features[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]0lvl[/B][/td]
[td][B]1st[/B][/td]
[td][B]2nd[/B][/td]
[td][B]3rd[/B][/td]
[td][B]4th[/B][/td]
[td][B]5th[/B][/td]
[td][B]6th[/B][/td]
[td][B]7th[/B][/td]
[td][B]8th[/B][/td]
[td][B]9th[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.
Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use Leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges.
Previous challenges;- Soulknife
- Bard
- Monk
- Assassin
- Barbarian
- Warlock
- Paladin *
- Warblade
- Pyrokineticist
- Ninja *
- Druid
- True Necromancer
- Dervish
- Whisperknife
- Epic Infiltrator *
- Master of Vipers
- Ranger *
- Flayerspawn Psychic
- Totemist
- Walker in the Waste
- Drunken Master
- Cleric
- Duskblade
* Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.
This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.
Also it comes with double prize money. Why? Because we care!
Allez Sauciers!Last edited by dysprosium; 2014-05-07 at 03:10 PM. Reason: copy and pasting is hard
Chairman emeritus for Zinc Saucier.
Contests:
-
2014-05-07, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- the periodic table
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
A few administrative notes:
Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.
Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.
What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.
Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.
What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.
Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Variant class features and variant character classes are espressly permitted. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.
What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while I am chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.
What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.
How the heck do I even do this? Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!
A thread for your amusement/edification:
Handy Tips for the Iron Chef in the Playground NoobChairman emeritus for Zinc Saucier.
Contests:
-
2014-05-07, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- Secret Lair on Sol c
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Given the issues surfacing last round I'd like a call from the Chair on using official adaptations, listed under the prestige class, in the same 'subchapter'. IMHO it should be counted as ACF but obviously some people disargee ... Chair opinion?
Last edited by Sian; 2014-05-07 at 10:26 AM.
-
2014-05-07, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Dahaha I'll be likely passing on this one.
Spoiler: My ReasonIt was IC's 2nd episode, which I read profusely, and I wouldn't want to have any building I could do tainted by that competition. I realize that it's different, but you know.
-
2014-05-07, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
I entered last round, so it's time to pay back: I'll judge this one.
Spoiler: Judging Criteria
Building a viable PC in accordance with the rules (of D&D, and of the contest) is the mission. If you want a good score from me, don't assume anything that's not specifically stated in the written rules. Here's how I'll judge illegal builds: If you fail to follow the rules, you'll be dinged for Elegance each time, and I'll reconsider the character after it's stripped of whatever was illegal. You may well get to a minimum score if significant parts of the character are invalid. (I'm not going to try to redo your build to make the illegal parts right and then judge my version of the character.) Failing to follow the rules may cause your build to fall apart. For instance, if you fail to meet the requirements to enter a prestige class, all the levels of that class you don't qualify for will have to be stripped out and you might be left with a build of just a few levels instead of the 20 you're supposed to have. If you choose to use a race which has no level adjustment listed for PCs you'll automatically receive a minimum score in all categories, with no further consideration of the character.
Dot your Ts and cross your Is, Sauciers! Errors can be embarrassing!
Innovation
Innovation is half (2.5 points) subjective, and half based on what the other competitors come up with. If you suprise me you're good for the subjective part, but if everyone surprises me with similar ingredients you'll all suffer. (It's probably a good idea to avoid dropping hints about your build elements.) Top marks come when you surprise me and also distinguish yourself from the competition.
Power
The challenge is to make the best version of the contest dish. Slightly better in all respects is perfectly acceptable; that's the ideal recipe. Much more powerful in any one aspect will lose you points, just as adding habanero peppers to a dish that calls for a little cayenne will ruin the meal. More powerful in many ways will send your score toward the minimum; you'll have made something quite zesty, but it won't be the right dish for the competition. You'll receive similar deductions if you fall significantly below the power of the target. If you rely on equipment for essential build elements, expect a deduction of up to .5 per item.
Elegance
Your job is to emulate a class. Coming as close as possible in all respects, including exact names and functions of class features and identical levels for those class features, will net you top marks for the execution of your recipe. Beyond that, a clean plating with all the relevant details explained and all sources cited will display your dish to best advantage. (If you've got details like build and hair color for your character, those had better be relevant to the dish; you can lose Elegance points for excess garnish by making me read more than a paragraph of "fluff" with no bearing on the contest criteria.) You'll also be dinged for anything which isn't legal, as noted above. Class dips may cost you in Elegance, but I won't deduct anything for intermixing your class levels to "season" the recipe. Using the provided tables, and tucking everything behind spoiler tags, makes for an elegant presentation. Dumping a wall of text is the equivalent of serving your meal in paper plates and jelly jars. But adding a section which explains how your entry satisfies each of the the Innovation, Power, Elegance, and Ingredient contest criteria will show your culinary skills to maximum effect.
Ingredient
This category is judged by how well you match the class features:
Psibond (forced sense link) .5... adding up to 5 points.
Psibond (nudge) .5
Psibond (empathy) .5
Lingering Psibond .5
Psibond (suggestion) .5
Double Psibond .5
Psibond (false sensory input) .5
Psibond (dominate) .5
Sneak Attack .7
BAB, saves, and everything else: .3
Best wishes to all the Sauciers.
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2014-05-07, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Adaptation
If your campaign doesn’t include psionics, you can readily adapt this prestige class to arcane magic. A group of enchanters can easily take the role of psibond agents, which requires only replacing the power point requirement with the ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
This adaptation is predicated on a campaign which doesn't use psionics. The ZS contest criteria don't exclude psionics, so there's no reason to assume a non-psionic adaptation as the desired recipe. Naturally, every chef is free to go about emulating the same abilities and feel as the Psibond Agent in any way they see fit, including using magic (arcane, divine, or other) instead of psionics. Of course ZS judges share this freedom, too; they can either embrace or reject a non-psionic dish emulating a psionic Secret Ingredient.
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2014-05-07, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII
Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII
Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII
Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV
Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2014-05-07, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- Secret Lair on Sol c
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Actually the question wasn't intended in that way
It was on general use of adapted prestige classes (or even base classes if they have such), in the build. As say as my character in the last one, where i picked Red Knight instead of Hextor/Heironeious, as the adaptation said that it was explicitly allowed if used in Forgotten Realms. Or adaptations saying that you can change this or that up (say, Unarmed Swordsage, even if its not a complete adaption).
Ninja'd ... As Whambamsam said
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2014-05-07, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- Secret Lair on Sol c
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
got 1½ good ideas for a build ... now to see if they even work
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2014-05-07, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Gainesville, GA
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
I might make a dish. Nothing popping out atm, but I'm AFB, so I'll check when I get home.
And abilities and feel of a Duskblade? I swear, that copy-paste error happens every time!
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2014-05-07, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- the periodic table
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Chairman emeritus for Zinc Saucier.
Contests:
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2014-05-07, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
I'll judge this one I think.
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2014-05-07, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Gainesville, GA
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
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2014-05-08, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
I am away from the book atm, I may build
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2014-05-08, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Oh, come on! This would be perfect for the Thrallherd! Ah well.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
In a mountain after a cave-in.
MY STATS OFF THE ELITE ARRAY:
Str: 14 Dex: 8 Con: 12 Int: 15 Wis: 10 Cha: 11
Please critique my 5e Beguiler Wizard subclass!
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...izard-Subclass
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2014-05-08, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Australia
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Build speculation is bad and you should feel bad.
The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)
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2014-05-08, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
In a mountain after a cave-in.
MY STATS OFF THE ELITE ARRAY:
Str: 14 Dex: 8 Con: 12 Int: 15 Wis: 10 Cha: 11
Please critique my 5e Beguiler Wizard subclass!
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...izard-Subclass
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2014-05-08, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Thrallherd would be banned under the leadership clause, yes.
Which leads us to the question, is it still speculating if it's illegal to use?
Could I joke about gestalting this and that since gestalt is an alternate rule variant and illegal?
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2014-05-08, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
In a mountain after a cave-in.
MY STATS OFF THE ELITE ARRAY:
Str: 14 Dex: 8 Con: 12 Int: 15 Wis: 10 Cha: 11
Please critique my 5e Beguiler Wizard subclass!
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...izard-Subclass
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2014-05-09, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
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2014-05-09, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Judging Criterion:
I'll be judging. My explicit goal for judging this competition is to increase peoples enjoyment of this competition. My judging criterion is here. I might make a build anyways, and just not submit it, and spoilerblock it with my judging once I submit my judging. I find while I enjoy the building, the judging generally consistently reduces my enjoyment of the competition, and I suspect the same is true of other competitors, so I'll attempt to change that.
Spoiler: Judging Criterion
Originality: 5 points: Of these 5 points, approximately half will be in relation to other builds in the competition, and approximately half will be in relation to the canon of optimization. If the build is a gish, and I open the gish handbook, and your gish build is comprised of nothing but the best options from the handbook strung together, that's not a high originality score.
Fighter1/Wizard6/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7 is not original: something involving paladin/bard/sublime chord is slightly more original. Something involving suel aranachmech, runescarred berserker and fochlucan lyrist is very original.
But a challenge here is that sometimes original things will be less powerful; sometimes the best known options are best known because they are powerful. Look for balance here, or a way to put in a particularly clever or original twist on a traditional option. If your classic gish (above) goes fighter 2 dungeoncrasher + lockdown feats with a crusader dip and persisting repelling shield at high levels, that's more original.
Power: 5 points, of which, half the score is raw power and half the score is versatility. Raw power more or less follows tiers, with 2.5 = Tier 1, 2.0 = Tier 2, 1.5 = Tier 3, 1.0 = Tier 4, and 0.5 = Tier 5 or lower, with exceptions for things that can clearly remove enemy NPC's at a rate of 1+/round. Versatility applies to in combat options (melee, ranged, casting, defense, offenses) and out of combat (skills, social encounter spells, crafting, transport, movement minigames). A character with a lot of power in one trick (an uber-charger, say) would score high for raw power (2.0) but lower for versatility (0.5 or 1) for a score of 2.5 or 3.0/5.
Resemblence to Secret Ingredient: 5 points:
Gather Information 8 ranks:
Sense motive 4 ranks:
3 languages:
1 power point:
1d6 sneak attack by 10th level for "pre-requisites"
D6 hit dice:
6+ int skills on rogue list:
9.75/13ths BAB:
reflex save:
3d6 more sneak attack by 20th level for the prestige class, totalling +4d6.
Way to gain senses from others without consent, perfect score if as Supernatural Ability
Way to nudge choices without consent, perfect score if as Supernatural Ability
Bonuses to social skills and ways to detect surface emotions, perfect score if as Supernatural Ability
The ability to use suggestion lots as a swift action, perfect score if as Supernatural Ability
The ability to provide people with false sensory input, perfect score if as Supernatural Ability
The ability to use dominate monster, perfect score if as Supernatural Ability
Having all these will result in a perfect score here.
Elegence: Mostly I'm looking for debated rulings, excessive dipping (2 or 3 dips is expected. 4+, less so), dropping casting progressions part of the way through, dropping prestige classes or base classes at atypical points, using variant rules or systems together (impulse boots to qualify for evasion), and exceptionally common cheese. Expect me to be more lenient in this category than the average judge. You people seem to care excessively much about alignment shifts/refluffing/etcetera, especially for an optimization competition.
Last edited by Ikeren; 2014-05-10 at 10:31 PM.
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2014-05-09, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Australia
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Sounds fair enough to me! I was mostly kidding, anyway.
I've got the fluff and breakdown of my build sorted out, which just leaves making the table. I'd complain about having to wait for the reveal, but I've got university assignments to occupy myself with. Oh, and I guess that everybody else needs time to make their dishes too. Otherwise it wouldn't be a competition!The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)
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2014-05-10, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
just would like to point out a few flaws in the metrics listed:
you list - 1d6 sneak attack: then list Sneak attack 3d6: - which do you want be specific.
7/10ths BAB is really a 15/20ths for a full build
Tier rating system for an SI that is possibly around a T4-5 level , this is something that should never be used as a metric in my opinion...
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2014-05-10, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
+1d6 is for the prerequisite, then the prestige class grants +3d6. Optimal scores will have 1d6 before 10th (for "entry" to the prestige class) and +4d6 by 20th.
I am equally capable of extrapolating from 3/4ths BAB, correct.
This SI is low powered. Expect low power scores. Do clever things to boost the power/versatility despite the SI you're mimicking? Get higher power scores. Pretty simple.
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2014-05-10, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Australia
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Last edited by Muggins; 2014-05-10 at 09:34 PM.
The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)
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2014-05-10, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
One power point is all the prestige class requires, isn't it? Or have I misread something? Having more than 1 power point might provide a power boost, if you do useful things with them, but having one is sufficient to mimic the prestige class.
don't people usually get penalised for being better than the class they're mimicking?
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2014-05-10, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Australia
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Well, it's just..
The point is to capture the abilities and feel of the secret ingredient, not its prerequisites. While I can understand the sneak attack progression, I fail to see why that singular psionic power point matters. The Psibond Agent doesn't even use psionics, it's just a magical diplomancer.
Also, what about all the Psibond abilities being Supernatural? That seems like an important thing.The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)
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2014-05-10, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Any build that includes Psibond agent is going to feel marginally psionic --- indeed, it has "Psi" in it's name. A very similar build that perfectly mimics a Psibond Agent without using levels of it will feel similarly marginally psionic --- perhaps by having at least one power point ?
As for the supernatural abilities; good point. I'll add that in.
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2014-05-11, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
How I'm going to judge the builds for those entering the contest.
Spoiler: Judging Criteria
Innovation: This is based on what I would expect to see based on the SI (In the Duskblade round for instance I expected lots of Spellswords, Ordained Champions, Abjurant Champions ect.) and what the other contestants put forth. You also get points in this if you find some cool way to combine abilities (Like Wild Shaping into a monster that's a cloud of super-heated death gas and using Control Wind to blow yourself around at 300 MPH for flight).
Power: I judge this as power in relation to the SI. Basically, how powerful is you character compared to one that took 10 levels of the SI. If your character exceeds the power of the SI you'll get a higher score. A low score would be given to a character that is weaker than the SI. Power is also not limited to combat. An out of combat character that does really well at out of combat tasks is still powerful.
Ingredient: This score is based on two things. First, how many abilities of the SI you emulated. The emulations need not be perfect but they should achieve the same effect. Similar fluff for abilities will also get rewarded. I will be looking for emulation of things such as hit dice and skills as well. Getting the prerequisites of the SI would certainly not hurt either but I won't put a huge emphasis on it. Second, the feel of the SI. In other words, making a character that does similar stuff in a similar way. For Psibond Agent, that would be a character who is adept at subterfuge and spying with their mind-controlling powers.
Elegence: Things that will get you a hit to Elegence are lots of dips, flaws, anything that requires you spend GP to get it (Be it a service or magical items. The exception to the magic item rule is if your character can make the magical item themselves.), high levels of cheese or questionable rules interpretation. Finally, you will be penalized or rewarded based on how well the various class/feat choices work together in terms of flavor.
Last edited by Humble Master; 2014-05-11 at 03:41 PM.
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2014-05-11, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Australia
Re: Zinc Saucier XXIV: live another day
Well, that's certainly a contrast. Now I'll have to choose which judge I want to appease.
That's how this works, isn't it?The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)