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Thread: Feats that suck
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2008-12-31, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Feats that suck
So here's a thread for what feats suck mechanically and are generally just not worth the feat slot.
One thing I avoid like the plague is Dodge. a +1 to ac for the price of a feat slot???!! Not worth it especially when it's a dodge bonus that's effective against one opponent per round. Dodge as a feat sucks. Only take it as a prequisite.
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2008-12-31, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
On the same train of thought, Mobility. Seriously, fail. Leap of the Heavens is pretty useless unless you also have Pounce, so maybe that can go here
Edit: And all the ones that give +2 to two skills, and Skill Focus. Useless unless you build your character around one skill, and then THEY'LL be useless most of the time (With the exception of the Jumplomancer of course)
Augment Summoning
Eschew Materials
Improved Counterspell
I'll add more later
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2008-12-31, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Well, famous Monkey Grip.
Stupid idea, extremaly weak feat. What's more to want?Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2008-12-31, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Snatch Arrows sucks some seriour ass too. Thrown wepaons are rather rare and anyway it's easrier to use your own storage and one hand free requirement makes most any feat suck.
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2008-12-31, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Monkey grip has it's uses... Sure, not many and they're rather flawed, but it has its uses... Anyway, Improved Familiar (or even the feat that gives you a familiar despite your lack of spellcasting). Why waste a feat on something that HURTS YOU?
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2008-12-31, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Improved Familiars isn't so bad if you're going for a Duskblade or Hexblade. If you use the version from CWar, you start getting to the big nasty and ridable familiars like a hippogriff or a winter wolf. Coupled with full bab and shared buffs...
Will be edited by Ryuuk : Sometime in the future.
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2008-12-31, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Weapon Specialization (Net)
Heck, proficiency is pretty pointless, since it makes touch attacks anyway.
Improved Overrun-I have never, ever, found a legitimate use for Overrunning.
Destructive Rage (CWar)-I mean, seriously, has anybody ever taken that feat for any reason other than to qualify for Frenzied Berserker?I am not crazy! I prefer "reality impaired".
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2008-12-31, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Lessee, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Repeating Light Crossbow). Unless you are REALLY strapped for cash, there is no reason to not go for the Repeating Heavy Crossbow. I've seen some more out there, but thats the one I can think of now.
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2008-12-31, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Athletic-Absolutely gorram useless.
Not forgetting Yldenfrei and the wonderful avatar she made.
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2008-12-31, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Toughness isn't bad for really low level games. +3 HP at level 1 is a fair amount.
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2008-12-31, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Weapon focus with a two hander is as good as +2 to damage, you just power attack for one more point. Except you're not forced to power attack if you ever need that extra +1 to hit (say for a full attack against a foe with a fair AC).
For the two-handed melee types weapon focus is almost globally better than weapon specialization. And this assumes you're not pulling any cheeze to get the power attack multiplier higher than 2.
Yet I've had people tell me that Barbarians shouldn't take Weapon Focus because they weren't eligable for Weapon Specialization and the only reason to take Focus was to qualify for Specialization! They wouldn't take the BETTER feat (at least for a barbarian build) because they couldn't use it to get the WORSE feat.
It's EASY to underrate a +1 to attacks, but that's a big bonus. It's roughly 10% extra damage for most builds. It's not natural spell, but its a solid mid value feat. Don't take it if you have a feat that really fits your build, but if you have a feat to spare it's money in the bank.
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2008-12-31, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Whirlwind Attack. Costs a ton of feats, requires you to get yourself surrounded in melee ('AH-HA! I've got them right where I... uh-oh.'), and then, as a full-round action, you can make them all real pissed at you, instead of killing one or two with a full attack.
I am not crazy! I prefer "reality impaired".
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2008-12-31, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Dodge is so bad that Wizards printed a couple of feats that one could take in place of it for Feat/PrC prerequisites. The other thread mentions Expeditious Dodge and Desert Wind Dodge. I think they're still both highly situational, but at least they don't require some easily-forgettable bookkeeping for a +1 bonus against one enemy.
Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec aren't so bad if you plan to take Melee Weapon Mastery. I think the stacking bonuses are decent enough. The only problem is that you need to be a level 8th fighter to get it. XPLast edited by AslanCross; 2008-12-31 at 07:54 PM.
Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
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"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay
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2008-12-31, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
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2008-12-31, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
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2008-12-31, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
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2008-12-31, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay
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2008-12-31, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Familiar= extra actions= win. Combine with the spell Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability to effectively quicken a number of spells for one 6th level slot, except they stack with quicken, and you could even quicken the spells you grant for a total of 4 spells per round (note that metamagic does not increase the level of the spell, so you can meta the imbued spell without reducing it's max level as long as you can pay the slot). Aid another for +2 on practically any skill check, or even non-str ability check for that matter. An extra set of eyes and ears means you get two rolls for any sense check, and since the familiar has your skills, two rolls on most of your skills. Take a raven and a few ranks of UMD to get some use out of those actions before IFWSA, or a bat for the next best thing to your own blindsense. And that's all with it just sitting on your shoulder, sharing your buffs and laughing.
Now, Improved Familiar is pretty useless. Nothing there you can't get with a Polymorph spell (standard or subschool). The whole "whoo, they keep their hp if it's higher" just points out that the creature choices are pathetic, since your familiar hp will be higher than theirs. Yeah, a duskblade or hexblade has a higher hit die, but 1/2 average 1d10 is only 2.75, which isn't much better than 1/2 average 1d4 for 1.25. The only choices I've seen worth considering are Lantern Archon for free Greater Teleports (everybody in the portable hole!) and the Coure Eladrin for incorporealness (pop through the wall and open door, 50% miss chance for all non ghost touch attacks).Fizban's Tweaks and Brew: Google Drive (PDF), Thread
A collection of over 200 pages of individually small bans, tweaks, brews, and rule changes, usable piecemeal or nearly altogether, and even some convenient lists. Everything I've done that I'd call done enough to use in one place (plus a number of things I'm working on that aren't quite done, of course).
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2008-12-31, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Last edited by JaxGaret; 2008-12-31 at 08:10 PM.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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2008-12-31, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
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2008-12-31, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Hi
Toughness is good for 1st lvl arcanists since it helps them live to get higher levels!
1) I play spellcasters, so Iron Will is pretty useless.
2) Only ever used Gt Fortitude as prereq for Stormlord.
3) Combat Casting is good for Clerics/Healers who need to get close to danger. Otherwise it's only good for 'Shielded casting' (name)? Stops AoO when casting spells.
4) Any crafting feat when your campaign doesn't allow time for creating magic items.
Cheers
Paul H
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2008-12-31, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
...perhaps I did not explain myself well enough.
At higher levels, the +1 isn't important enough to warrant wasting a feat on. Take a random CR10 creature, the Fire Giant with an AC of 23. The same 10th level Fighter will have BAB 10, plus maybe +8 from STR, and a nice +3 weapon, at least. That's +21 to hit: a 90% chance. Sure, if you took WF, that makes it a 95% chance, but it means you're tied to your weapon type, which many people will find restricting. If the Fighter had taken a better feat, on the other hand, he could be doing something more useful than a +5% to hit, which he could just pay for and buy a weapon +1 better.
At level 20, with a 35 AC Balor, the Fighter is swinging for +20 BAB, +, let's say, 10 STR and +5 weapon. He hits at +40: he's not going to miss unless he gets a 1. WF here is useless, as he's still hitting 95% of the time.
Some 3/4 BAB class (say, a Rogue) may indeed have a use for the +1, but they don't have the feats to spare. And the Fighter doesn't need it. It's not a BAD feat, there are just BETTER ones.
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2008-12-31, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-12-31, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Feats that suck
Not everyone plays the same campaigns. In some campaigns you're just as likely to fight 45 AC NPCs with class levels as you are to fight 35 AC stock MM Balors.
But I do agree that if you're already hitting ~90% of the time, WF isn't doing much for you, and in general it's definitely not a top tier feat.Last edited by JaxGaret; 2008-12-31 at 08:28 PM.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche