A Question of Great Importance

[Unavenger]

Honestly, I defend the descriptivist position espoused in post 5: a burrito is not a sandwich and neither is a hot dog. If you put some subs, some traditional sandwiches, some hot dogs and some burritos on a table and asked someone if they could carry all the sandwiches on that table to another one, you would probably be left with the hot dogs and the burritos. You might be left with the subs too, mind, so that's perhaps a slightly (although, as with most semantics, only slightly) more interesting question.

[Peelee]

Nah, it's a poor man's calzone executed badly. Everyone knows taco meat should be ground or shredded. ;)

Ah, I see you've never had a Chicago shredded-hotdog-dog.

[Otomodachi]

Ah, I see you've never had a Chicago shredded-hotdog-dog.

OMFG that is literally the most Chicago thing I've ever heard of. Is that really a thing?

[Peelee]

OMFG that is literally the most Chicago thing I've ever heard of. Is that really a thing?

Not to the best of my knowledge, but after my last journey into Chicago's hot dog culture, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Honestly, I defend the descriptivist position espoused in post 5: a burrito is not a sandwich and neither is a hot dog. If you put some subs, some traditional sandwiches, some hot dogs and some burritos on a table and asked someone if they could carry all the sandwiches on that table to another one, you would probably be left with the hot dogs and the burritos. You might be left with the subs too, mind, so that's perhaps a slightly (although, as with most semantics, only slightly) more interesting question.

That example is not a good one for your position. When all you present are "classic" sandwiches and quasi-sandwiches, of course a person is going to interpret the order using an exclusive definition, because if you had wanted them all moved, you'd'd say "all" not "sandwiches".

Now, imagine you have a table with pizza, chips, and burritos, and someone asks you to hand out the sandwiches. Would you interpret the order to mean the burritos? I think yes.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Now, imagine you have a table with pizza, chips, and burritos, and someone asks you to hand out the sandwiches. Would you interpret the order to mean the burritos? I think yes.

Grey Wolf

What if there are sandwiches, but you have to fold them?

[Telonius]

So would a Hawaiian Pizza calzone be a Sandwich sandwich?

[Reslain]

Sure they are (i guess?), also now I'm hungry :(

[Otomodachi]

So would a Hawaiian Pizza calzone be a Sandwich sandwich?

You will notice, I hope, that this is the exact second where the thread started to dry up. I assume the smell of cooked pineapple sent everyone running for the hills. I hope you're proud of yourself. ;)

[Iruka]

You will notice, I hope, that this is the exact second where the thread started to dry up. I assume the smell of cooked pineapple sent everyone running for the hills. I hope you're proud of yourself. ;)

Nah, people were for sure humbled by such deep insight. he revealed the most sandwich of all sandwiches. Except maby a sandwich made of a Hawaiian Pizza calzone between two Hawaiian Pizza calzone.

[Otomodachi]

Nah, people were for sure humbled by such deep insight. he revealed the most sandwich of all sandwiches. Except maby a sandwich made of a Hawaiian Pizza calzone between two Hawaiian Pizza calzone.

Pfffft, a calzone is just a dumpling.

[Peelee]

Pfffft, a calzone is just a dumpling.

A dumpling is just a super-closed sandwich.

[Otomodachi]

A dumpling is just a super-closed sandwich.

For me the difference is you bake a dumpling with all the stuff already in it. I think that might rule out pizza for me, too, now that I think about it.

[Peelee]

For me the difference is you bake a dumpling with all the stuff already in it. I think that might rule out pizza for me, too, now that I think about it.

That just means you should be introduced to the world of baked sandwiches!

[Otomodachi]

That just means you should be introduced to the world of baked sandwiches!

No but a baked sandwich, the bread should still already have been baked. That's fine, but if you bake the stuff in the dough then it's a dumpling.

[Peelee]

No but a baked sandwich, the bread should still already have been baked. That's fine, but if you bake the stuff in the dough then it's a dumpling.

So what you're saying is there's space for an entirely new type of sandwich!

[Otomodachi]

So what you're saying is there's space for an entirely new type of sandwich!

Man, this is a derail but you should try THIS monster sometime, assuming you like the ingredients.

Firstly you want a nice ciabatta or filone. A french baguette will work but isn't ideal because it's too narrow- you want something that's like 10"ish long but 3-4"ish wide.

Spoiler: it'll look kinda like this

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1lb. bacon
1-2 red peppers, to roast
3-4 cloves of garlic, to roast
1 eggplant
1-2 avacados, sliced
dijon mustard
olive tapenade or just some kalamata olives
cheese (I recommend a nice smoked gouda; if you don't enjoy that, mozarella is good, provolone is good... you want something not very sharp, and definitely semi-hard or softer. Hell, use kraft singles if that's your jam.)

What you're doing is: set your oven to high broil, take a baking sheet pan and line it with tin foil to save a lot of cleanup, halve your red peppers, peel your garlic (more garlic is OK if yer really into garlic, it's gonna end up getting smashed into the dijon mustard for a spread) and set the red peppers and garlic on the tin foil/sheet pan so that the red peppers are skin up and the garlic is nestled under the red peppers. You can put your pan under the broiler fairly high up; the highest slot is probably too close, but even the second down is probably good.

Keep a half an eye on it, but you want the red pepper skin ENTIRELY black. It's about half an hour in my oven. When it's done, just set it aside- if you have time right away, rinse the red peppers with cold water, this'll help loosen the black skin from the nice roasted "meat" inside. The tin foil and red peppers should just peel off of each other; put your peppers and garlic on something, later you're going to peel the blackened skin off the red pepper. It's wicked hot right now though.

While yer peppers were cooking you can probably be doing your bacon. Cook your bacon how you like it. Use whatever bacon you like. Reserve just enough of the grease to re-grease the pan after you are done; this is what your eggplant will also cook in.

You want the eggplant in slices lengthwise; basically, the thinner you cook it the better the texture is for this purpose, but too thin and you lose some nice tenderness in the middle. Thicker than a Kraft Single, but thinner than a pancake? I suck as spatial stuff, sorry. Salt your slices, then rinse em off, then press them between some paper towels, then fry em up to a nice golden brown.

Take a sec to peel your red peppers; the blackened skin should come off relatively easily, although not usually so good as you get it all in one pass. The skin near the cuts, where the red peppers where touching the tin foil, need slightly more attention or you might lose more of the "meat" than you want. Red peppers get sliced into strips once peeled.

Slice your loaf of bread horizontally, not like a sub roll. All the way through. Toast it briefly, just to get it ready to take condiments. Bottom slice gets your olive tapenade or just olives.

Dijon mustard in a small dish to taste; depends on how much you like mustard, honestly. Smash your garlic cloves into it, a fork should work fine they'll be pretty tender. Don't worry if some of the more cooked skin from the garlic doesn't blend as well- it's the inside stuff that you really want to mix into the mustard, I PROMISE you will not notice the texture of the garlic skin. This mixture goes onto the top slice of bread.

Bacon goes on top of olives; eggplant goes on top of bacon; avacados go on top of eggplant; red peppers go on top of avacados; cheese goes on top of red peppers; now put sandwich, without top, onto your baking sheet and melt cheese under broiler. Pop that baby out, put the top onto it, and smoosh it down a little. This step is surprisingly important, the point of the ordering of layers is that everything should smoosh down and fill in to become easier to handle; the melty cheese should keep things from smooshing OUT too much, so don't be afraid to use a lot of cheese. We're loooooooong past health concerns.

I am 6'7" and weigh 240; when I make one of these, a meal is half. For people that are a bit on the smaller side, it's probably dinner for three. You can also slice it into more finger-thickness segments for a party.

Spoiler: Enjoy your itis!

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EDIT: Thoughts on common substitutions, if you don't like olives mushrooms give you the texture you want, some chopped mushrooms sauted in a little red wine vinegar will work pretty well. If you don't like those either, some caramalized onions will change the flavour a bit sweeter but still does the texture job. If you don't like avacados, mashed potatos might be more your jam. If you don't like eggplant, you can leave it off. I just like eggplant. :)

If you don't like dijon mustard, I'd go for something more capsacin-spicy then, a good hot sauce on the top or maybe some jerk sauce. Sriracha would do in a pinch, too.

[Bohandas]

The WORD sandwich is *NAMED* for that one dude, probably, but the concept of what a sandwich *IS* is much older. People've been scooping stuff onto bread and eating it one-handed for a hecka-long time, I think.

IIRC his (and his kitchen staff's) specific contribution was popularizing closed-face sandwiches with leavened bread. Open-faced sandwiches and bread bowls (or "trenchers") preceded hin by hundreds of years, and there had also been a handful of recipes in jewish communities involvinng sticking foods between two slabs of matzo. But it was in his time that closed-faced sandwiches with leavened bread became popular. Though I have no idea whether his kitchen staff actually invented them or if he just helped popularize them.

(disclaimer: bear in mind that I'm summarizing from memory a Food Channel segment that was already heavily summarized here, so I may have made some mistakes)

[Otomodachi]

IIRC his (and his kitchen staff's) specific contribution was popularizing closed-face sandwiches with leavened bread. Open-faced sandwiches and bread bowls (or "trenchers") preceded hin by hundreds of years, and there had also been a handful of recipes in jewish communities involvint sticking foods between two slabs of matzo. But it was in his time that closed-faced sandwiches with leavened bread became popular. Though I have no idea whether his kitchen staff actually invented them or if he just helped popularize them.

Definitely, it's one of those stories from history that sound crazy but are true, that really is where the name came from! :)

But like... I guess the point I was trying to get in is that many of those older things are also definitely sandwiches in my mind, even though they are older than the sandwich. Life is weird.

[Razade]

Nah, it's a poor man's calzone executed badly. Everyone knows taco meat should be ground or shredded. ;)

If you said this south of the border they'd stuff a firecracker in your tortilla. Next thing you're going to say is a taco has to have a crunchy shell.

[Otomodachi]

If you said this south of the border they'd stuff a firecracker in your tortilla. Next thing you're going to say is a taco has to have a crunchy shell.

Hah, probably. It's not that I don't respect culture, but when it comes to food I DEFINITELY know what I like and how to get it, and for tacos I want meat that's very soft and pull-apart-y. Ground or shredded. Maybe something with shaved steak could work, but even sliced pork/beef/chicken is just a little to tough for me to cleanly bite through a taco the way *I* want to be doing it! :)

[Peelee]

Hah, probably. It's not that I don't respect culture, but when it comes to food I DEFINITELY know what I like and how to get it, and for tacos I want meat that's very soft and pull-apart-y.

Ah, so chopped or sliced fish or cow tongue! The taco truck near me offers tongue meat, I didn't think I'd be able to find that early available outside of major metropolitan centers. I can't get enough of it.

[Otomodachi]

Ah, so chopped or sliced fish or cow tongue! The taco truck near me offers tongue meat, I didn't thin if he about to find that early available outside of major metropolitan centers. I can't get enough of it.

Oh, yeah, pretty much anything short of sword or bluefin from my experience is perfect. Never had tongue, how does it compare to say, liver, in terms of texture?

[Peelee]

Oh, yeah, pretty much anything short of sword or bluefin from my experience is perfect. Never had tongue, how does it compare to say, liver, in terms of texture?

Haven't had liver so far as I can remember, but it's kind of like extra firm tofu - easy to handle, but like butter. Had a tongue stroganoff at a Russian place in Brooklyn and tongue sandwich at Katz' Deli, both those were also delightfully tender, so I assume it's a consistent texture considering how different those three are.

[lio45]

That example is not a good one for your position. When all you present are "classic" sandwiches and quasi-sandwiches, of course a person is going to interpret the order using an exclusive definition, because if you had wanted them all moved, you'd'd say "all" not "sandwiches".

Now, imagine you have a table with pizza, chips, and burritos, and someone asks you to hand out the sandwiches. Would you interpret the order to mean the burritos? I think yes.

Grey Wolf

I was going to point out, like you did, that his example was biased, but your alternative is just as biased the opposite way: clearly it's implied that "something" on the table has to be considered the sandwiches and the closest thing is obviously the burritos.

The right test would be a table with an assortment of stuff: pizza, chips, burritos, and purist sandwiches, and you ask the test subjects to move the "sandwiches" to another table, and you see how many typical people would move both burritos and pure sandwiches vs how many typical people would only move pure sandwiches.

[darkrose50]

The meaning over words can be annoying. Words change meaning over time. So anything can mean anything eventually. Gay was once happy. Thing was once meeting. Pop or soda? Trunk or boot? Is that rad? Is that cool? Is that fly? Is that woke?

This is like the flat earthers saying that a scientific theory cannot be settled because it is a theory. As if naming something changes what it is. I could call gravity soup, and as long as we know what we are all talking about then it is correct.

So basically call whatever you want whatever you want as long as people understand you. Putting a meaning of a word in a dictionary can only slow down the rate of its change.

Now what annoys me to no end if when someone takes concept A, and adds some nonsense to it, comes up with a whole new word for the concept, and wants everyone to call it concept B. Like adding fruit to ice-cream would change it to Darkrose50's improved flibberty-jam. Then some other idjit will add some sprinkles and come up with some other self important nonsense and call the ice-cream with fruit and sprinkles idjit's theory of flibberty-jam with curly-wurly super-smarts. Remember the names and minor improvements for the test.

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Also if it was not invented by the Earl of Sandwich, than it cannot be a Sandwich. The misappropriation of Sandwich culture disgusts me!

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Also also . . . a pop-tart is a ravioli!

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My daughter named knife "shaper" and pitcher "lemonaider". It was adorable, and we knew what she was talking about.

[ForzaFiori]

I'm actually taking a contracts course in law school this trimester and we read a case with almost this exact question. The case (basically) boiled down to whether the standard meaning of sandwich included a burrito (and therefor whether a contract preventing a landlord from leasing to competing restaraunts that sell sandwiches would prevent leasing to a mexican restaraunt). So this is something of such importance that the courts have ruled on it lol. I believe under those particular circumstances they ruled that a burrito didn't count.

[Peelee]

I'm actually taking a contracts course in law school this trimester and we read a case with almost this exact question. The case (basically) boiled down to whether the standard meaning of sandwich included a burrito (and therefor whether a contract preventing a landlord from leasing to competing restaraunts that sell sandwiches would prevent leasing to a mexican restaraunt). So this is something of such importance that the courts have ruled on it lol. I believe under those particular circumstances they ruled that a burrito didn't count.

Yes, that was in MA IIRC. Panera sued the mall over a Qdoba.

[Unavenger]

That example is not a good one for your position. When all you present are "classic" sandwiches and quasi-sandwiches, of course a person is going to interpret the order using an exclusive definition, because if you had wanted them all moved, you'd'd say "all" not "sandwiches".

Now, imagine you have a table with pizza, chips, and burritos, and someone asks you to hand out the sandwiches. Would you interpret the order to mean the burritos? I think yes.

Grey Wolf

Honestly, I would be very confused in that instance. I would probably assume they meant the burritos (well, I would probably ask "You mean the burritos?", but at the same time, no-one I know would ever ask me to bring them the sandwiches when they mean the burritos, showing that the actual use of the term sandwich isn't tied to burritos. If someone asked me to bring them something off that table that was vaguely analogous to a pizza or chips, I would probably think they were referring to the pizza or chips respectively.

[Jay R]

As this thread has shown, the word "sandwich" does not have a single, unambiguous, precise meaning that always applies, and that we all agree on

Therefore the question, which assumes that there is one, is unanswerable.