The LA-assignment thread VII: LA LA Land

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Isn't the rule that a score of -- counts as 10 for things that key off it (barring an explicitly provided alternate score)?

[Thurbane]

Not exactly:

Nonabilities
Some creatures lack certain ability scores. These creatures do not have an ability score of 0—they lack the ability altogether. The modifier for a nonability is +0.

[No brains]

Isn't the rule that a score of -- counts as 10 for things that key off it (barring an explicitly provided alternate score)?

It's too bad encumbrance is keyed of the actual strength number and not the modifier.

If you have Str: - and try to pick up a ghost touch sword, you crash a tabletop game.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Ah. Should have known it wouldn't be that easy.

[javcs]

...
I think there are instances of stuff with Dex -- having a -5 modifier for some of their Dexterity related things.
Like the Udoroot. It appears to have +0 Dex mod for Initiative and Reflex saves, but for AC, it has -5 Dex.
Unless that got changed in Errata.

[Thurbane]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that creatures with no Dex score use Int as the initiative modifier instead of Dex, but I can't find a citation...

[edit] Here we go:

Any creature that can move has at least 1 point of Dexterity. A creature that has no Dexterity score can’t move. If it can perform actions (such as casting spells), it applies its Intelligence modifier to initiative checks instead of its Dexterity modifier. The creature automatically fails Reflex saves and Dexterity checks.

...which still doesn't sync up with the Udoroot's stat block. Also, if it auto-fails Ref saves, why give it Lightning Reflexes?

[InvisibleBison]

Also, if it auto-fails Ref saves, why give it Lightning Reflexes?

So it can auto-fail with style, presumably.

[Thurbane]

So it can auto-fail with style, presumably.

It's other feat is Iron Will, despite being immune to 95% of things that call for Will saves by virtue of its plant traits.

Not to mention it should have a 3rd feat by virtue of having 6HD.

None of this is touched on in the XPH errata.

[javcs]

It's other feat is Iron Will, despite being immune to 95% of things that call for Will saves by virtue of its plant traits.

Not to mention it should have a 3rd feat by virtue of having 6HD.

None of this is touched on in the XPH errata.

At least they aren't packing Toughness.

[StevenC21]

Toughness would actually be more useful in this case.

[javcs]

Toughness would actually be more useful in this case.

It really wouldn't.
Remember, it only loses HP after it has been dug up and the roots are being attacked. Which means the party has already destroyed all the crowns, and the Udoroot can't do anything.
Which means that, at most, it's going to take the party an extra attack, at most another 6 seconds/one round, in what might as well be narrative time, not combat time.


Because, honestly, once it's dug up, I'm not going to make my players play out the attack and damage rolls necessary to finish it off.

[Zaq]

So it can auto-fail with style, presumably.

That wasn’t flaying. That was failing with style.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Toughness would actually be more useful in this case.

It really wouldn't.

If Toughness/Improved Toughness applied to the flowers as well, that would actually be relatively useful.

[liquidformat]

will have to check what ghost walk says about equipment. Either way This thing has enough going for it that it handily beats a psion 2 levels above it at pretty much any level. I am not seeing much of an argument here against +3 based completely on equipment compared to a tier 1 caster. Even still it is far a head of the game.

[Inevitability]

There were a few 'borderline +2 and +3' votes, which for obvious reasons aren't counted as preferring one over the other.

+2: 3 votes
+3: 8 votes

+3 it is.

[Inevitability]

Xeph

A truly xeph-tional creature. Haha funny joke.

Reasonably standard player race humanoid. +2 dex, -2 strength, 1 bonus power point, +1 on saves against most magic, darkvision, and the ability to 3/day increase speed by 10 to 30 feet for a few rounds (by RAW it's a standard action to activate, but it's pretty clearly intended by be swift). Favored class is soulknife but let's not honor that with an analysis.

Notable option: the Xeph Celerity feat, which allows you to expend Burst uses to add an attack to your full attack. It's slightly synergetic with Soul Eater (especially the capstone), and such a character would probably be pretty neat.

Clear +0, moving on.

[Zaq]

Xephs are uninspiring, but they’re no worse than other mediocre +0 races. +0 is fine.

[liquidformat]

ya pretty straight forward +0 base race not much to say about Xeph.

Isn't that the last of the expanded psion monsters, what book next?

[danielxcutter]

ya pretty straight forward +0 base race not much to say about Xeph.

Isn't that the last of the expanded psion monsters, what book next?

Nope, we still have the psionic Yuan-ti.

[ZamielVanWeber]

+0. It's a race. That exists. And does stuff.

As we crawl closer to the next book I have a few ideas. Fiend Folio is cool as it made an honest attempt to give reasonable looking LAs to monsters (although weird editing made it confusing. Khaasta is LA +0 but you cannot tell that at first glance.)

[Dimers]

Yep, xeph is straightforward LA +0. It gets, like, the opposite of an asterisk, it's so easy.

[Efrate]

Xeph is a baseline +0. Nothing fancy.

[liquidformat]

Fiend Folio would be a great one, I think also maybe something like sandstorm, frostburn, and shipwreck would be cool they don't have a crazy number of monsters each but an interesting variety there in.

[ViperMagnum357]

The Xeph is a mediocre LA +0. I suppose I do not have a strong preference for the next book; I am just patiently waiting until we can do the BoED, BoVD, and the Dragonlance books.

[javcs]

Concur with LA +0 for the Xeph. They're hardly a standout, but for 0RHD it doesn't really take much to avoid a -0. I mean, really, a race that gives you nothing would be a +0, albeit on the low end.


--
As for the next book ... hmm. IIRC, Inevitability hasn't been particularly eager to do anything that wasn't printed with the 3.5 rules, which complicates things a little.
So some rather useful books are out - seriously, WotC, why not reprint MM2 for 3.5?


Perhaps we should finish the SRD and do the ELH next. Or some of the WotC web enhancement material.

[Inevitability]

Personally most interested in the fiend folio (having to use the updated statblocks would be a bit annoying though) or the web enhancements. Thurbane had a list of those right?

[Zaq]

I’m going to reiterate my request for Fiend Folio (if the semi-updated stuff is kosher) and/or Thurbane’s “MM6” of online monsters.

Which is, yes, just what Inevitability just said, but I woulda said it either way.

[Thurbane]

Xeph is fairly unexceptional; not quite enough for LA -0, so LA +0 is fine IMHO.

Personally most interested in the fiend folio (having to use the updated statblocks would be a bit annoying though) or the web enhancements. Thurbane had a list of those right?

Yep, here's the link (just be aware that some of the linked pages are no longer active, so not all the creatures may be accessible): Monster Manual VI - Online Monsters; Being a compilation of monsters available freely online, that (mostly) did not appear printed in any books...

[Covenant12]

Definite +0. Unimpressive maybe, but still definite.

Worse than human or dwarf imho, but better than half-elf. Probably better than PHB +2 Dex/-2 Con elf, darkvision is always handy at low levels. Don't see it excelling at much, but again half-elf.

Fiend Folio sounds solid. If the 3.0ish changes don't cause a lot of issues. Which they may.

[Thurbane]

Fiend Folio sounds solid. If the 3.0ish changes don't cause a lot of issues. Which they may.

I assume we'd incorporate the 3.5 update booklet for FF? Not that it fixed everything, but it's a start...