A new atempt at community world building

[Kornaki]

For the orcs: An orc wizard could have developed an epic spell that would make its target give birth to a Sahaguin instead of an orc. The only problem is that it required the sacrifice of a live person for each person it targets; of course you don't want to sacrifice orcs since then they can't breed. Solution: Capture a city (without saying why) and then sacrifice the population wholesale for the spell. Before this the orcs could even have been a respectable race with a civilization on par with the best of them.

With an act like this, nobody would trust/trade with the Sahaguin for hundreds of years, leading to them developing a nomadic raiding lifestyle. You can imagine the epithets people would make up for them

[Vadin]

Tether is steered by...are you ready for this? Are you sure?

Ok...here it comes...magic.

Maybe Gliss himself steers the floating isle.

Maybe the great beast Labyrinth, Mother of Monsters decides where it goes.

Perhaps it knows where it ought to be and when, and that's all it needs.

Regardless of how it flies, it does.

There seems to be some connection with it's flight pattern with the coming of summer, but even the titans and elder wyrms aren't sure just how it knows where to go.



I was going to bring them up if you weren't.

Evadize has the druids, but what about the Thinking Man's Nature God? Who's the god of the natural world for the guy who doesn't want to bomb his neighbor for eating meat?

Enter Caina, the Ancient Lady! She's a god of a world that was, a world that lived on in nightmares and dreamscapes!

Almost every race has stories of when she walked the world, stories from when elves skittered through the treetops, dwarves huddled in caves, and men started to walk the boundless savannahs.

She took with her her beasts but left their mark on a chosen few every generation.

Her priests call their order Caina's Teeth, but everyone talks about those scaleheads and the Jaws of Life- they'll heal your son's leprosy, but first you have to leave a goat or swordfish outside their stone temple before sunrise.

Those who share Caina's mark are also warriors who wield the power of the monsters from ages past and manifest their scaled glories.

No one dares question their neutral authority on matters, as most groups are too scared to ask for their favor. Caina's Teeth are to be respected, trusted, and honored on the autumnal equinox of every year, but kept at a pleasant distance. And they like it that way. Just a little bit of worship, enough to feel like the commoners are paying respects, but not enough worship to start asking questions.

The monks know about their inner workings, however, and they know just as much about the monks.

Secret societies have to stick together, right?

Unlike those other monks, though, the Jaws lend unspoken support to the splinter group that seeks to right history and restore order. If the Jaws have any say in it, that order will include Caina's beasts walking the world again. Millennia have been spent putting together a grand ritual that will bring her beasts back to life en masse. But first, Evadize and his fey must be dealt with. He's far too...mammalian.

[Kellus]

...remnants of the old orders of mages living in bubbled mage academies.

The Glorious College of Sonomanilon

Ever the most beautiful of human architecture, in the days before the Ruin the arcane college of Sonomanilon was the center of learning and arcane research in the world. The best wizards learned their trade there and later in their lives returned to pass on what they knew to a new generation of magicians.

Part university and part city-state, Sonomanilon bows to no normal authority. It is a magocracy, and is ruled by a council of eight elder magicians. Although originally filled by a wizard of each school of magic, in the generations since its founding the positions have become either hereditary or in some cases mere commodities to be bought from corrupt wizards.

Haughty and proud, the wizards of Sonomanilon scoffed at the waves when they first rose. Confident that their magic would protect them, they did nothing to help the rest of the world prepare, and they paid the price for their folly. Their college was destroyed, although the inhabitants endured through arcane spells. Eventually, the university was rebuilt in a massive bubble-city under the waves. Today it exists in a sad sort of mockery of what it once was. Although there is a small population of magicians that live and teach there, they get much fewer students than they ever did before. Isolated and alone beneath the ocean, Sonomanilon exists as a gloriously beautiful city, but one that hardly anyone ever sees.

That being said, it is still the repository of almost all arcane knowledge in the world. The best and brightest seek it out in order to learn the eldritch arts, and its council of mages rules as ruthlessly as ever they did.

-=-

@Kornaki– I really like that idea. I don't think the spell that did it needs to be spelled out for rules use, but I love the idea that the transmogrification of the race required an enormous amount of bloodshed. Thus, the orcs are now outcasts from other races beause of the lengths they had to go to to survive.

[Vadin]

@jagadaisho: Yes, yes yes. Keep all of it, it's perfect.

[Kellus]

Love Caina's mythology. A different take on the nature deity. Goddess of healing, the wild, and dinosaurs, her worshippers are respected but kept at a distance by the other races.

The Jaws of Life? Eugh. AWESOME.

Also– this setting needs a name. We're starting to get the feel of it, as a sort of post-apocalyptic fantasy setting where the old ways have been destroyed and different factions are racing to reclaim the old lands... where something terrible waits for them.

Any suggestions on a title for the setting?

[jagadaishio]

Watershed?
Both marking it as a monumental change and a literal shedding of the waters.

Landbound?
Ehhhh, even I don't really like it.

The Rise?
Of what? Of land? Of a new world order? Of the end of all things? Of the ever-eating psychic crabs?

What are your ideas?

[Vadin]

Ramua?

And, if anyone was wondering, I have been shamelessly ripping names from old Lords of Creation games.

Ramua being the name of the setting/world, like Greyhawk, Faerun, etc.

[Kellus]

I like Ramua as the name of the world. Watershed also seems fairly evocative.

Maybe something to do with an exodus? After all, everyone's finally moving en masse back to their homelands.

[Owrtho]

For another thought on why the water rose, someone fumbled a roll they shouldn't have. Realy Badly.
Maybe something like, the powerful wizard who was raising the city asked a helper to bring over that very fragile and valuable artifact worth more than their life, and in carrying it over the helper happened to drop it. But it didn't just fall on the deck of the ship and break, it fell over the edge into the water. Upon which the wizard asks if he really just dropped the artifact that doubles whatever you put in it into the ocean.

Owrtho

[jagadaishio]

I would really like to refine the concept of the elves. I've been thinking it over, and I think that the fallen houses may actually be more successful than the noble houses. After all, the fallen houses would finally be stripped of the petty leadership that the noble houses typically have - the very leadership that nearly led to their demise. This could have been the start of a great egalitarian elf society.

The noble houses, on the other hand, lost almost all of their power. After all, their power was theirs not because of talent or real power but because of tradition. As such, they fell to their old petty squabbles, but without the infrastructure to support them. So, the noble houses slowly festered, eventually becoming pirates, preying upon the "lesser" but far richer and happier fallen houses. They would be embroiled in a sort of hit-and-run war to this day, the noble houses taking what is "rightfully theirs" from the fallen ones who earned it.

What do you guys think?

[Kellus]

I would really like to refine the concept of the elves. I've been thinking it over, and I think that the fallen houses may actually be more successful than the noble houses. After all, the fallen houses would finally be stripped of the petty leadership that the noble houses typically have - the very leadership that nearly led to their demise. This could have been the start of a great egalitarian elf society.

The noble houses, on the other hand, lost almost all of their power. After all, their power was theirs not because of talent or real power but because of tradition. As such, they fell to their old petty squabbles, but without the infrastructure to support them. So, the noble houses slowly festered, eventually becoming pirates, preying upon the "lesser" but far richer and happier fallen houses. They would be embroiled in a sort of hit-and-run war to this day, the noble houses taking what is "rightfully theirs" from the fallen ones who earned it.

Actually, I really like that idea. The twelve remaning houses have fallen into chaos and petty bickering. Meanwhile, the two fallen houses went off somewhere else and made a new government that actually plays nice with the rest of the world.

I'm starting to think twelve remaining houses is too many, though. How about, say, this setup–

• 3 Greater Houses, which have a representative in the Alfheim (Incidentally, the Alfheim has fallen into chaos along with the houses, and they've become a sort of "king of thieves" group where they rule over and organize the elven pirates.

• 4 Lesser Houses that basically exist to do the bidding of the Greater Houses. They had less strength when the Ruin came, and were subjugated by the Greater Houses. Bear in mind that a resistance probably exists among them too, that wants to overthrow the yoke of the Greater Houses.

• 2 Fallen Houses that no longer even subscribe to the house setup. Instead, they founded a new country known as Haltija. Note that they also stole most of the arcane lore and artifacts from the other elves when they were banished, and now they're pretty much the only ones that remember the old ways of wizardry among the elves. The other houses have sort of given up on magic, relying on martial prowess to take what they want from other races.

[Vadin]

That's how a few of the Noble Houses turned out. The five (two Greater and three Lesser) strongest in magic thought they could built a city on the waves- how wrong they were.

It took 100 years, but the incantations were finally perfected, all the components assembled, every preparation made, every caution taken. The words were spoken and the magic began to weave itself about their fleet. The boats twisted and warped together into a huge artificial tree city. It seemed perfect!

And until some time in the early 600's, it was! They were prosperous, and important, and full of themselves.

Without warning, after standing for centuries, it all came crashing down. Not slowly, not with warning, not with loud creaking noise so some people could notice and escape in lifeboats...nothing.

One minute it was there, and the next it was crashing beneath the waves.

The orcs that circled below it constantly made short work of what few survivors there were, and the floating tree called Suriya became the Sunken City, and five elven houses were lost.


Fourteen houses: 5 lost here, 3 Greater remaining, 4 Lesser remaining, and 2 Fallen remaining.


Of course, the numbers of Houses lost here could vary. I just want it to feel suitably...huge.

[Kellus]

Heh. That works really well with what I came up with, and also adds up perfect for the original tally.

3 Greater + 4 Lesser + 5 Vanished (Suriya) + 2 Fallen = 14 original houses.

I do think there should be some survivors from Suriya, though. Either refugees that remember the glory of the tree-city, or survivors that somehow managed to integrate into society beneath the waves with the orcs of all people after the city fell.

[Vadin]

Slaves? The orcs used their magic (they, unlike most other groups, haven't forgotten the Old Ways) to make the survivors into waterbreathers. Now they work fields of kelp and gather fish for their orc masters in their seafloor cities of stone.

[Kornaki]

For another thought on why the water rose, someone fumbled a roll they shouldn't have. Realy Badly.
Maybe something like, the powerful wizard who was raising the city asked a helper to bring over that very fragile and valuable artifact worth more than their life, and in carrying it over the helper happened to drop it. But it didn't just fall on the deck of the ship and break, it fell over the edge into the water. Upon which the wizard asks if he really just dropped the artifact that doubles whatever you put in it into the ocean.

Owrtho

Well, I think it should be considered whether it's common knowledge why the waters rose. The less people know about why the waters rose, the more epic of a story it should be (since you'll want the PCs doing an adventure to find out perhaps, and the bigger the secret, the more epic the adventure).

A story like this is something the PCs should just know, since it's almost there only for comedic value and there's no point in hiding it. On the other hand, a story like the god of oceans raising the seas to cover his temple where his merfolk clerics are completing the rites to allow him to manifest himself on earth, thus stealing all the worshippers of the planet for himself, and he wants to make sure none of the other deities know what's going on; that's the kind of story worth doing a quest or even a campaign to uncover

[Vadin]

The wizard story is definitely an old wive's tale sort of the for the setting- a colloquialism shared among people who regularly interact with magical devices.

[Kellus]

Slaves? The orcs used their magic (they, unlike most other groups, haven't forgotten the Old Ways) to make the survivors into waterbreathers. Now they work fields of kelp and gather fish for their orc masters in their seafloor cities of stone.

Lovely. If this also happened that long ago, I can also imagine that over time the unthinkable happened, and the elf slaves and the orcs started to interbreed. Exiled in shame from the orc territories, they took up residence in the ruins of Suriya and now reside in the Sunken City. They'd be true exiles, halfbreed oceangoing monstrosities, born from the blood of hated enemies. And now they desire vengeance on all elves and orcs to pay them back for the cruelty they showed them.

A sort of drow, I imagine, a dark breed of elves that hates the surface-sailing elves.

@ Owrthro & Kornaki– I agree with Kornaki's assessment. Although funny, I think that the god manifest version of the Ruin is a better fit for the mood of the setting.

EDIT @ Vadin: That's even better. Have different people believe different reasons for why the Ruin came in the first place. I imagine there'd be a lot of different myths or stories that rose up around it.

[jagadaishio]

So, the three greater and three lesser houses: what makes them greater and lesser? Ancestral claims from an ancient, sunken world, or some kind of actual power still somehow held? If it's the first, then I would wager only the three "great" houses see those divisions anymore, the others just seeing seven noble houses. Would the houses have fallen to piracy on their fallen brethren before or after the sinking of the last great tree city? Would they have been welcome to moor and trade there, or would it have been so isolationist that not even that was allowed? If it was the first option, I can see why they would have been desperate enough to fall to piracy, having lost their one mooring point.

[Kellus]

So, the three greater and three lesser houses: what makes them greater and lesser? Ancestral claims from an ancient, sunken world, or some kind of actual power still somehow held? If it's the first, then I would wager only the three "great" houses see those divisions anymore, the others just seeing seven noble houses. Would the houses have fallen to piracy on their fallen brethren before or after the sinking of the last great tree city? Would they have been welcome to moor and trade there, or would it have been so isolationist that not even that was allowed? If it was the first option, I can see why they would have been desperate enough to fall to piracy, having lost their one mooring point.

That's an interesting idea. I like the idea that there's no real distinction between the Greater and Lesser Houses, but just that they were the most powerful when the First Rise occurred. So since then they've desperately tried to hang on to their power from marshalling a populace of elves that don't really want to take orders from them in the first place. The result is a race that's splintered and fragmented, untrustworthy and treacherous pirates that they are.

I'd imagine that the five magical houses split themselves away when they saw what their brethren were becoming. They must have decided to build a new home for themselves where they could escape the chaos that had consumed the rest of their race. I think I like it better that a rift grew between the "noble" elves and the magical elves, rather than the one mooring point idea. In that case, it could even be the jealous noble pirate elves that sent saboteurs into Suriya in order to bring it down.

Thoughts?

[jagadaishio]

I like the idea that the noble houses engineered the collapse of Suriya. This would really emphasize the reason that the sunken drow houses would have such contempt for the surface elves. They would probably have learned the source of their downfall through divination after the fact. Would the drow have the crab as their insignia in the way that traditional drow have the symbol of the spider and the scorpion?

[Vadin]

A dark room on a large ship, 612 AR

"What in Baator do you mean 'it's gone'?"

"I mean, it's not there anymore, sir..."

"But...how? You were supposed to tell that genie-"

"Sir, it was a devil, we've been over this."

"I don't care, they both do what you tell them! It was just supposed to get rid of their magic so they'd stop their damn gloating!"

"Right, sir. And it did... it got rid of their magic. All their magic."

"Wait...you mean...oh Daal."

"I...I killed them..."

"Yes, sir. Yes you did."

[Kellus]

Brilliant. I imagine Daal is one of the elven gods?

As for the insignia, I think we should steer clear of the crab image, since that's tied up with imocaris. How about an eel or a sea serpent?

Also, another question we should address: Vadin, you posit the existence of genies, devils, and Baator in particular. Do we want the standard cosmology in this game? The 20 Outer Planes, and so on? I'm not sure it fits the theme of the setting that well.

[jagadaishio]

A dark room on a large ship, 612 AR

"What in Baator do you mean 'it's gone'?"

"I mean, it's not there anymore, sir..."

"But...how? You were supposed to tell that genie-"

"Sir, it was a devil, we've been over this."

"I don't care, they both do what you tell them! It was just supposed to get rid of their magic so they'd stop their damn gloating!"

"Right, sir. And it did... it got rid of their magic. All their magic."

"Wait...you mean...oh Daal."

"I...I killed them..."

"Yes, sir. Yes you did."

I love it. It also sets up a nice potential precedent for elven warlocks from the noble houses.

[jagadaishio]

Just how big are the crab cities? I know it may be good to leave it vague, but I would at least like to establish a ballpark estimate now instead of down the road. If we were to plop one down, how big across would it be? How long and wide are its legs?

[Kellus]

I'm thinking one of the cities would probably be about a mile in diameter, the main "body" of it would be about 800 feet high, and the legs (since they need to stride through the ocean) would have to be exceptionally long. Probably several miles long, although only a small portion of them extends above the surface. For population, I'd say that between five and ten thousand people live in each city.

How's those numbers sound for you?

[Kellus]

Also, how does "Exodus of Waves" sound for the campaign setting? Thoughts?

[jagadaishio]

I like Exodus of Waves, but only if the setting were set shortly after the the last of the land was swallowed by the sea. I don't think it suits the game as taking place right now as the land appears again.

As for the crab walkers, I would instead make it a mile in radius, increase the population to at least 50,000, and since the legs only walk in the shallows, serving to swim in other areas, I would instead make them no more than the city's own height in total length. After all, the body part will be half-submerged before it will ever be able to float, and any deeper than one or two thousand feet it becomes more efficient to paddle anyway. I think the legs going 800 feet down and 800 up sounds good.

Would the one city have its own sentience, warforged style? Would they have modified theirs to be a living construct city, or just leave it the steam-powered behemoth? How good of a state of repair are the pure and mixed cities in? What do they use as fuel? Magical portals to the elemental plane of fire, bound elementals, mined coal? Should an additional percent of each city's population live alongside the cities in fleets of submarines, one part navy and one part trading fleet? Are the cities capitalist or communist? A mix? What's their style of government?

[Vadin]

Also, another question we should address: Vadin, you posit the existence of genies, devils, and Baator in particular. Do we want the standard cosmology in this game? The 20 Outer Planes, and so on? I'm not sure it fits the theme of the setting that well.

I posit that Baator, devils, and genies exist, yes. Baator (devils, some evil gods), the Golden Sands (genies, some neutral evil gods), Celestia (archons, most good and neutral gods), and the Abyss (demons, some evil gods) exist as planes.

I do not, however, posit that they are active agents in the world.

They are, instead, only seen as pawns for summoning.

The elves have the secrets of summoning extraplanar powers. They draw runes and ancient symbols to summon genies (wealth and theft), devils (subterfuge and sabotage), and demons (attacks and guards). They also have warlocks, people who make very costly deals with these beings in exchange for great power.

[Owrtho]

Well, the idea I posted of why the water rose was more of a joke idea than anything else.

As for the idea of multiple planes, I don't think the standard ones would fit the setting, but I could see there being multiple planes. Such could be:
The plane of eternal oceans (consists of a giant saltwater ocean)
The plane of eternal lakes (consists of a giant fresh water ocean)
The elemental plane of water (for some reason the only elemental plane)
The plane of water (consists of a giant sphere of water with no bottom or land of any kind)
The plane of the ocean sky (consists of a giant sphere of water, the inside is hollow with a small sun in the center. A large mass of rock orbits the sun causing nightfall. Gravity would pull toward the outside of the sphere, making it like a large ocean).

Then of course would be the material plane.
.......(more serious)
..............^
On another topic, I could see there being a group people (most likely humans), who had lived on the ocean in floating wood cities from before the water rose. They would have made platforms that floated upon which they build houses. The platforms would be connected by bridges that could likely be taken off allowing them to rearrange the city as needed. When the rise came it had little impact on them, but prompted them to find alternative sources of wood and/or other building supplies.

Owrtho

[Kellus]

I like your numbers. I was thinking cities that waded through the ocean proper, instead of floating or walking in the shallows. Your way maked much more sense.

Good questions. I think Vadin has some ideas for how the crab-cities work, but my thoughts on the matter:

• Regarding pure/mixed cities: I'd say that the pure gnome/dwarf city is in excellent condition, since its caretakers make sure it runs as smoothly today as it did a thousand years ago. Nothing changes there, and they've got the most stable government of the three. The mixed race city is shabbier, since it lets pretty much anyone in. I imagine that since it's such a prominent location, it's a bit of a trading hub between different races. I'd also imagine that there's a bit of an underworld to it as well, a sort of black market in steam technology.

• Regarding government: Although each of the cities is seperate one from the other, I think they need to have some common ties. I imagine the gnomes originally having different castes, such as a ruling caste, labour caste, engineer caste, and so on. In that case, there would be some sort of conclave of gnomes (with presumably a few dwarven representatives) that would nominally rule the two races. Of course, since each city is really out for itself, there'd be a leader for each city that really runs things with or without the council's help.

• Regarding fuel: there's no shortage of water to boil to make steam, so I could definitely see the portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire (assuming, again, standard cosmology). I think that'd be really neat, to have the "heart" of each city be a roiling inferno. And of course, someone on the OTHER side of the portal could always move from the Plane of Fire into the core of the crab-city... Alternatively, that could just be one of the gnomish inventions, an engine that's bound to the Plane of Fire and creates its own heat out of the aether.

• Regarding the third city: it should definitely have a different feel to it. These gnomes haven't just been sitting on their laurels, oh no. They've been modifying, tinkering, upgrading their city. I love the living construct idea, and I think it's got great potential to have the city run itself. I imagine that this city is more reclusive than the others, and although it's the most mechanically gifted, the other gnomes and dwarves resent it for not sharing its new secrets with them.

• Regarding other forces: While a certain amount of outside activity is neccessary, I think we can agree that pretty much the entire gnom and dwarf races live in the cities. Of course, they'd each also have a substantial naval force. I think the pure city would be the strongest military-wise, since it's also the most stable government inside of the city. The mixed city doesn't really need or want much of a navy, since it's surrounded all the time by trading flotillas. The third city would certainly have smaller craft that dock there, but they're less military-minded than the pure city. The third city is more concerned with innovation and creating new, interesting vehicles to explore the world. Thus, they've got much more bizaare ships and fleets, such as flying boats that flit around on alchemical dragonfly wings, or shark-based submarines that have a limited sentience and guard the city by devouring ships that come too close.

Thoughts?

[Also, I agree about the name. I'm just trying out different things, trying to find something that works. ]