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Thread: Favorite Superhero Fight?
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2023-12-27, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
God, I hated that. The fans were like "oh, but the plot armor is her power." Okay, but that's a really bad power, and kind of dumb. The fights in general were far less interesting than in Worm, and mostly boiled down to "and then I punched them, and punched them, and then punched them, and punched harder." A mostly indestructable punching machine that...punches lots is like a terrible parody of what bad Superman plots look like.
She *could* have been interesting, I suppose, and was a great deal more so in Worm, but as a POV character, it was brutal. And the worldbuilding....literally everyone chooses to live in the same place because...reasons. Okay. And they don't even bother to name it, just calling it "the city." This is probably the worst worldbuilding of all time.
I've read Worm a few times, and enjoyed it greatly. It isn't a perfect work, but it is an interesting work, and a very ambitious one. I really did want more of that. Ward....wasn't.
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2023-12-27, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
Spoiler: My Hero Academia Spoilers
just a reminder that the mha japan (who knows other nations) does extrajudicial killings against quirk users, without trials, and without official charges
we find this out in the sniper arc where deku fights the gal who uses her hair as telekinetic bullets (her name is
Kaina Tsutsumi and her quirks are rifle and air walk)
that type of government is often giving epiphats like fascist if this was real life and not fantasy. There is no reforming that from the inside, you will need some form of confrontation like a violent take over, mass resignations, large protests, etc to create a break from the status quo.
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Of course My Villain Academia, the Meta Liberation army, and All for One/The Demon Lord are totally cartoonish. The sad thing is they came close to thematic but not cartoonish villians.
And I argue Tomura Shigaraki having daddy issues as his motivation is not a mistake. It may not be for everyone, but a person not giving up their grudge, and their grudge being all too human yet petty … well that is what society is. Society is about repression and representationthe symbol for peace, for repression and representation allows sharing, trading, cooperation, and communication. Yet the self-I feelings are just as important, our intense psychic life is why people get angry, why we say this is important to me, please listen, you can not ignore this. The same repression that makes society possible also makes society unbearable.
Thus we can not solve this from first principles, instead we solve this via meeting people where they are and listen to others who need help. Sometimes a support system from a stranger, later a friend in need, can radically transform the situation. Izuku offering his hand to Bakugou even though elementary school kid Bakugou did not need help. Well the same applies with Deku and Shigaraki.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2023-12-27, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
Marvel does this a lot too.
SpoilerKillmonger: "Hey, we're hoarding all this technology that could be shared instead, to solve a lot of racial inequality around the world. Staging a coup is literally the only way I can convince you all to abandon the isolationist policies of the current dynasty."
Dora Milajae: "You know what, that actually sounds-"
Killmonger: "By "sharing" of course I mean we're going to mail weapons of mass destruction around the globe and spark the bloodiest conflict in history. Oh, and I'm also burning all the of the magic flowers that empowered me so that no one else can possibly challenge my rule in the future."
Flagsmasher: "Hey, the very concept of borders are inherently oppressive, especially now that we know for a fact that not only does alien life exist, but that it can provoke genocide of our species on a global scale. The entire world should be treated as one country because, galactically speaking, that's what we are."
Falcon: "Honestly, you raise a-"
Flagsmasher: "To strengthen my argument, I'm going to create a private army of super soldiers under my control, burn down the orphanage I grew up in murdering everyone inside so my origins can't be traced, and bomb the United Nations."
Namor: (see Killmonger)
Gorr: "The alien creatures that call themselves gods are not worthy of the name, much less our worship. They're parasites who consume offerings from less powerful races, squablle amongst themselves to our detriment, and give us nothing of value in return."
Thor: "When you put it that way, we really should try to-"
Gorr: "Therefore I've decided to go murder every last one of these aliens, whether they even consider themselves gods or not and whether they actually try to help people or not, as well as slaughtering all their innocent children."
Scarlet Witch: "My entire family got taken from me twice. This reality holds too much tragedy for me, I'm going to use magic to find one where my children still exist, maybe even my husband, so that I can be with them and finally be happy."
Doctor Strange: "That's not a bad idea, I can even help you find-"
Scarlet Witch: "But finding a reality that lost their Wanda is too much work, so I'm going to just pick the first one I come across, even if that means murdering their mother and taking her place. Also, I don't have time for America to learn how to use her powers to help me willingly, so I'm going to take them from her by force, murdering her too."
I'm not saying it's an entirely bad trope - after all, if the villains were reasonable there wouldn't be a movie. But it's starting to get a bit old.
I think it's one reason why the Guardians Trilogy is so well-received - its villains so far (Ronan, Ego, The High Evolutionary, and I'll even count Thanos) are refreshing in that they are unapologetically villains, but still have a fair amount of depth to them without needing this whole I'm-actually-misunderstood-until-whoops-I'm-not trope.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2023-12-27, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
I didn't watch Love and Thunder, but I'll got to bat for Gorr as a good villain in the comics, mostly because his hypocrisy (as essentially setting himself up as a new god, complete with a religion that says his people should reject all gods and worship) is actually ADDRESSED BY THE PLOT and is a critical element of the climax of the story.
I think that's an important element missing from the other examples; they are treated BY THE NARRATIVE as irredeemable and objectively wrong, while the subtext you can read into it is "they have a point I guess". So things come out very confused, and making them "sympathetic" is pointless because nothing is done with it.Last edited by Rynjin; 2023-12-27 at 10:07 PM.
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2023-12-27, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
Actual Superhero stories? That's tough, but I'm going to say Worm, particularly Skitter vs Mannequin and Armsmaster vs Leviathan.
For actually film/animated stuff? I'm going with the fight against Thanos with the nearly completed Infinity Gauntlet. With Iron Man, Dr. Strange, and the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Extending it out to basically superhumans, I'm going with Kirisugu Emiya vs Kotomine Kieri which holds on as my number one fight scene period.
I'm problems with Ward really started with its world building and carried on from there.
SpoilerNamely that for a world that supposedly went through a global apocalypse a couple of years ago it seems way to coherent and unified, with the distinction of heroes and villains still being a big deal. ****, the main character begins with having trouble joining a hero team.
Oh and then there is the whole thing where people kinda actively pretend that Khepri doesn't exist and that actually works across the board.
Or the part where the Undersiders, who were well established as warlords and pretty much not villains, somehow regressed and aren't literally running their city, that they openly ruled beforehand. And despite everyone else having amnesty, they are still somehow considered 'villains'.
Spoiler: MHA Shigaraki complaintsI don't mind him being a complete monster. I do mind that all of his followers don't seem to notice that. And I do really really mind that they go through the effort of saving Shigaraki when Toga is right freaking there, infinitely more deserving of redemption, and actually sacrifices herself when Bakugo gets a complete stranger to sacrifice themselves for him in the most BS way possible and that simply works.
Like, I'm sorry, but if you are going to pull that guano, then you can find a way to keep Toga alive who is just suffering from blood loss and not the complete loss of his heart. And if you are going to be trying to save/redeem Shigaraki, then you better extend that courtesy to every other one of the league of villains because they all deserve it so much more than he does and have harmed so many less people.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
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2023-12-27, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
I'm going to be odd and pick from old-school comic books. Although it's definitely strange... for me, the ones that stick in my memory really aren't the big slam-bang super-dramatic punch-ups. They tend to be... quirkier.
* Basically anything from Astro City. Mostly because the vast majority of the time the physical action is solidly in service of the story- exploring the themes that the dialogue has established, expressing character traits on an even larger scale. And it's usually decidedly pretty, to boot. Great art.
* The finale of The Promethium Exchange (Excalibur vol. 1, 37-39), a crossover between Excalibur and the West Coast Avengers, with Doctor Doom as the villain. To get it out of the way, the artwork is... bad. Just kind of on the low end of mediocre-to-crap. You can tell what's going on, but that's about the best that can be said about it. It's seriously janky. That being said, the dialogue is hilarious, loaded with snarky wit, and the character focus on Doctor Doom and one of his rebellious creations, Darkoth the Demon, are surprisingly poignant in places. And the barely-coherent superhero 'demons' summoned by Doom's subconscious that provide the majority of the brawling action are genuinely funny, highlighting how little Doom has really understood of the various do-gooders who have thwarted him through the years. A surprisingly good example of the 'villain has understandable motives, but is still definitely an unrepentant villain', despite all the nonsense.
* And a brief one-off that stretches the 'superhero' tag a bit, the handful of panels when Doctor Doom has the Purple Man/Killgrave lashed to one of his machines to take over the world, and Killgrave is complaining about how Doom doesn't deserve any of this, it's his power doing it, and how Doom is just protected by his mask. So Doom takes off his mask and just looks at him. Killgrave immediately starts trying to order him to kill himself, harm himself, free Killgrave, before winding down with a whimpered "Impossible. Nobody's will is that strong!" as Doom impassively puts his mask back on and simply asks "Now. Who deserves to rule?"Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.
At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.
This is...
The Last Call of Cthulhu
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2023-12-27, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
so many anime’s are trying to recreate that scene and dynamic, I am thinking of one in particular, but then again I read 120 chapters of this buddhist themed manga over christmas while most of the family watched 3 football games, spoilers ( Jujutsu Kaisen )
Spoiler: MHA Shigaraki complaintsI don't mind him being a complete monster. I do mind that all of his followers don't seem to notice that. And I do really really mind that they go through the effort of saving Shigaraki when Toga is right freaking there, infinitely more deserving of redemption, and actually sacrifices herself when Bakugo gets a complete stranger to sacrifice themselves for him in the most BS way possible and that simply works.
Like, I'm sorry, but if you are going to pull that guano, then you can find a way to keep Toga alive who is just suffering from blood loss and not the complete loss of his heart. And if you are going to be trying to save/redeem Shigaraki, then you better extend that courtesy to every other one of the league of villains because they all deserve it so much more than he does and have harmed so many less people.Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2023-12-28, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
I'm fond of the Doomsday fight in BVS, it showcases a good range of the trio's abilities without just being generic punching. Clear stakes, clear ticking clock, clear characterisation for all parties.
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2023-12-31, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
Oh man, the first chapters of Worm are brutal. I stopped reading twice because Taylor getting bullied was so unpleasant. But I was assured that it got better... and it did. I read the whole rest of it in basically one go, and while it does get as dark again in the final arc, at that point I was fully invested in the characters, plot and setting, so it was more intense than unpleasant.
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2024-01-01, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
This question would require way more thought and research than I have time for. Maybe will update later.
Off the top of my head:
Superman vs. Phaora in Man of Steel.
Batman rescuing Martha and BvS.
Rorsach vs. Dr. Manhatten in Watchmen.
Phoenix vs. Set in What If? #24.
The fight vs. Thanos on Titan in Infinity War is probably the best in the MCU.
Batman vs. Mr. Freeze in Arkham City.
On paper the final battle in X-Men: Apocalypse. In execution not so much.
Also, Doom vs. the Kilgrave as mentioned above isn't really a fight, but it is awesome.Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2024-01-02, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-03-04, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
Turns out Worm is as good as people said!
Yeah, that's why I stopped. I didn't even make it past the first chapter. But I put the effort in, and... wow. This is the best superhero story I've found, in the text format, better than even The Perfect Run. I just made it to the point where, so please no spoilers.SpoilerBehemoth dies
Oh, somebody upthread (I forget who) inquired about the purpose of this thread. It's... to share your favorite superhero fights. Nothing more, nothing less.Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 2024-03-12 at 09:18 AM.
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2024-03-06, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
One of my favorites is
ShazamCaptain Marvel vs Superman in Justice League Unlimited. They're fighting in a new city without residents so they're free to absolutely trash the place, and the whole thing was a setup by Lex to make Superman look bad (and he succeeds). Very much a perfect shot of what it would look like for two evenly matched physical gods to go absolutely ham on each other. You can see the whole thing on youtube here.Last edited by tonberrian; 2024-03-06 at 01:19 AM.
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2024-03-06, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
The one that comes most immediately to mind is the swarm of Agent Smiths scene from Mateix 2
Also, the haunted bowling ball destroying the doomsday device in Mystery Men was kind of cool, if that counts"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2024-03-12, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
Probably not my favorite but one I really have always liked is Superman vs Darseid from the Superman Adventures cartoon. It is not a wild and crazy DBZ fight. It is slow and methodical with a clear beginning, middle and ending. I also love what Darseid says to Superman at the end of the fight. Always stuck with me.
"I am many things, Kal'El, but here, I am god."
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2024-03-29, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Favorite Superhero Fight?
I've never really been a fan of the big, ridiculous, supa-powa-ful fights where combatants level whole states/nations etc. I don't feel as invested in those.
My favourite fight from the MCU, whether you'll believe it or not, is the first time Captain America fights the Winter Soldier in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
There's no over-the-top special effects, there's no ticking time bomb scenario, there's no intrusions or gimmicks etc, just really good choreography against men of relatively equal power/skill with an emotional pay-off/twist/surprise at the end.
If we're adding greater scale super powers to it, I actually really enjoyed the Superman vs Faora Smallville fight, as it has a bit of everything. We see how overwhelmingly powerful a Kryptonian is to a normal person (Faora vs half a platoon of US Rangers, who themselves are IRL badasses and she beats them all in about 1-2 seconds), Faora handing SUperman his ass initially with her superior skill vs his superior strength, the borderline horror moment of the big Kryptonian popping the human pilot of the A-10 warthog, Faora tanking a missile, the thrown train, the tag-team vs Supes etc. I know Man of Steel isn't everyones cup of tea, but I thought it was a great scene.Last edited by BananaPhone; 2024-03-29 at 04:40 AM.
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