OOTS #654 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

Time to put the new server to the test: A new OOTS on a Monday afternoon.

[chiasaur11]

Good one.

O-Chul and the Monster in the Darkness always make for at least some solid entertainment, even if it looks like this is the last meeting those two will have.

Knowing the escape route bit also is intriguing.

Another solid comic, even if it's more set up than action.

[Illven]

Awesome he called him O'chhul

[Kaytara]

Yes! O-Chul to the action! :)

Nice touch there with the MitD finally calling O-Chul by name... And since you're likely to read this (first page and all), allow me to tell you what a wonderful story you're writing. :)

EDIT: Oh, and typo in panel nine: "You do? Really? Than what am I?" Shouldn't it be "then"? :)
Oh, and the first panel has "Suburst"....

[The Glyphstone]

I don't know about 'Mr. Stiffly', but I'm feeling a bit "sniffly"....

[Griever3216]

O'Chul cannot die! :smalleek:

Interesting turning of events, for once again. :smallsmile:

[Snake-Aes]

O-chul is my hero.

[Zanaril]

And there goes the awesomest paladin ever.

[whitemane]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... O'Chul rocks!

MITD... Take heed of his wise words...

[Nevitan]

AGH! why couldn't this be a double issue, I'm crazy excited about the next one.

[PId6]

Not entirely unexpected. Now I just can't wait till the next one!

[MuseUnchained]

Woah, shakedown cruise or baptism of fire for the new servers? We'll have to see :p

Awesome comic, the relationship between O'Chul and Monster in the dark has been interesting, it will be sad if this is a one way trip to the next life for O'Chul, but whatever happens, how MitD takes it is going to define him, we'll see just how much he has taken from his fellow prisoner.

[Tempest Fennac]

Do you guys think O' Chul will attack RC or one of the Goblins or do you think he'll go for Xykon?

[Didgin]

MITD being a good man does make sense. Human is in the core rules (like Rich hinted), and they can be good aligned. The special abilities probably come from some sort of an epic/munchkin class combination :smallbiggrin:

[Mauve Shirt]

:smalleek: Good luck O-Chul! I hope he is able to help V.
I like that the MITD remembered his name, rather touching.

[GoC]

Do you guys think O' Chul will attack RC or one of the Goblins or do you think he'll go for Xykon?

Xykon definitely.

Didgin: Paragon advanced human! It makes perfect sense!:smallbiggrin:

[Inkling]

Gah!!! First Vaarsuvius, now O-Chul! Who's next, Elan?

...

Okay, I hope I didn't just accidentally jinx anyone there...

[bibliophile]

Salutes

O-chul; showing Lawful Good and Awesome can be one and the same.

[Janmorel]

*SOB* :frown:

What, you want eloquence? I'm freakin' heart-broken here!

[Pantler]

Awesome. Refreshing every 5 minutes finally pays off.
Also, a typo: Than what am I?

[Wolf_Plague]

And now I can't stop thinking about how does Monster's voice sounds...:smallconfused:
And "O-CHUL!!"
And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_2qFvr3SU&NR=1) as background music.

[yilduz]

Mr Stiffly is gonna kick some ass!

Well, it would be cool. More likely, he's just going to delay things well enough to let V escape... maybe. Meh, I dunno.

In any case, the comic was awesome, and actually reminded me of one of my most memorable D&D sessions ever. The time we were in captivity, escaped our cells, and led a slave revolt. Awesome.

[BadAndyMk3]

Good luck O-Chul! I hope he gets at least one good whack at Xykon's skull.

[Bifflechips]

Just as Monster-san was shouting O'chul's name, I shed a single tear...

Wonderfully done.

[Zen_Heart]

O-Chul! :smalleek: Don't die!

Although maybe his death would give both the MitD and V the wakeup call they need.

[Ozzymindous]

Who thinks O-Chul, is going to save V?
I think hes going to die trying.

[Selene]

O-Chul, NOO! :smalleek:

[Dreadon]

WOW, I think the Mitd might do somthing big now and come out and save the day. That would be so cool.

Oh yah.

NO! O-chul don't do it!

[Yendor]

Hurray! It's time for another episode of the O-chul Awesomeness Show!

[Querzis]

Just look at my signature. O-chul is the paladin and even if he die he'll always live in our heart and in my signature. Just like Shojo and Roy are still in my signature even if they are dead and Nale is still in my signature even if we didnt see him in such a long time...why does the giant kill or forget about all my favorites characters :smallfrown:

[The Linker]

Next comic is going to be GREAT. :smallbiggrin:

And like Kaytara said: Typo in panel 9! :smalltongue:

[Murdim]

Most awesome. Paladin. Ever.

[Deth Muncher]

Oh snap. Who else thinks that MITD might be the next good guy?

[Bedinsis]

Wow... I think I look up to O-Chul now. Enduring months of torture when he's been able to escape just because it was the right thing to do... and even when he does escape he STILL try to make Monster in the Darkness see the right way. (heh, I just realized; O-Chul tries to get Monster in the Darkness out of the Darkness, albeit a knowledge- and not sight-based darkness.)

By the way, shouldn't it be "sun burst" and not "suburst"?

[hajo]

I'm pretty sure the MitD could break out of his box, or slip thru the bars.

But if he was afraid of the light (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html), why did he want a sunburst ? :smallconfused:

[Hardcore]

Server works great! No delays at all.

[Satyr]

I sense a heroic sacrifice of O-Chul which will save V's behind.

[Issabella]

*sniff* My Stiffy is an awesome paladin, always on duty. I fear he may be what allows the depowered V to escape.

[Querzis]

But if he was afraid of the light, why did he want a sunburst ? :smallconfused:

What comic have you been reading? Hes not afraid of the light, he actually want to get out of the darkness but he doesnt because Xykon ordered him not to.


By the way, shouldn't it be "sun burst" and not "suburst"?

Yes it should but thats not a typo, thats just the MiTD being the MiTD.

[JonestheSpy]

Damn, it's just been one mindboggling cliffhanger after another for weeks now...

Looks like its time to sacrifice Knight to save Queen.

Oh and I can't help adding that while I love O-Chul, Big Ears from Goblins is still the best paladin evar.

[SPoD]

But if he was afraid of the light, why did he want a sunburst ? :smallconfused:

He's not afraid of the light at all, he desperately wants to be lit up so he can stop hiding in darkness. It's a running gag.

[Kornaki]

I'm pretty sure the MitD could break out of his box, or slip thru the bars.

But if he was afraid of the light, why did he want a sunburst ? :smallconfused:

He's not afraid of the light; he's hoping the sunburst lights him up so there's no reason for xykon to keep him in the dark. He did the same thing when they took back Xykon's tower and had to fight the light archons

[chefsotero]

Aweson comic

but this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGBZf5oKspk) is what is playing in my mind when I read it

Hail to the giant, and doulbe hail to the Bad-@$$ paladin :smallcool:

[yilduz]

I'm pretty sure the MitD could break out of his box, or slip thru the bars.

But if he was afraid of the light, why did he want a sunburst ? :smallconfused:

I don't think he's afraid of the light, he was ordered to stay in the darkness. He wanted to pop out when Roy broke Zykon into a bunch of little pieces.

edit: Wow, it's amazing how many people post the same thing I was going to post while I was writing it. :P

[Prowl]

... remembering something about guilt being the primary weapon in Good's arsenal...

[Person_Man]

Noooooo!!!! Not the Fiendish Cockroach! He has all the best lines!

Oh well, at least there's one more left skittering around somewhere.

What are those things anyway? They're not a summons, because they've been around too long. Maybe they're Xykon's familiars (though if so it'd more then enough hit points to survive one hit, and I have no clue how Xykon could get more then one, both of which with the fiendish template).

[Xantospoc]

Beatiful interaction between Monster-san and O-chul.
Pure CROWNING MOMENT OF HEARTWARMING. If you're going to die, O-chul, you'll be remembered by everybody!

[Melchiades]

I am literally up in knots to see what happens next. O-Chul is THE defining awesome NPC in the story.

Also, it's funny how everyone noticed the misspelled 'than', but nobody mentioned that sunburst is also missing an 'n' in the first panel. (:

[SteveMB]

I'm pretty sure the MitD could break out of his box, or slip thru the bars.

But if he was afraid of the light, why did he want a sunburst ? :smallconfused:

He's not afraid of the light; in fact, the MitD has repeatedly asked to leave the darkness. However, he follows Xykon's direction...
...though O'Chul may have planted the seeds for that to change.


Noooooo!!!! Not the Fiendish Cockroach! He has all the best lines!

Oh well, at least there's one more left skittering around somewhere.

What are those things anyway? They're not a summons, because they've been around too long. Maybe they're Xykon's familiars (though if so it'd more then enough hit points to survive one hit, and I have no clue how Xykon could get more then one, both of which with the fiendish template).

They were introduced in Start of Darkness.

The diner where Xykon and Redcloak first teamed up to exploit the Gates had a portal to the Lower Planes. The demon roaches were attracted through the portal by the food and took up residence thanks to the place's poor hygienic standards. A couple of them decided to follow along.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Xykon definitely.

Didgin: Paragon advanced human! It makes perfect sense!:smallbiggrin:

The MitD: The next step in human evolution.

Also, I like how the roach started talking about "hey, you can't bend the bars, it's not in the rules," and O-Chul gives him a spear to the carapace as if to say, it's in MY rules."

I'm hoping O-Chul at least survives long enough to get some more good dialog out. Possibly with V.

[Cúchulainn]

Monster-san will save O'Chul and become his epic mount, together they will smite Xykon and jump into the Rift, destroying the Snarl through pure awesome and saving the universe.

The End.

[Estelindis]

Holy moly! O-Chul!! Nooooo!!! :smalleek:

I mean, it's the perfect thing for him to do. It's both completely good and totally badass. But I sense a heroic sacrifice coming up, and he's just such a cool character that I don't want him to die. :smallfrown:

[Porthos]

Ohcrapohcrapohcrap. :smalleek:

please please please please let O'Chul be ok. :smalleek:
.
.
.
.
He's not going to be is he? :smallfrown:

*pauses*

*premeptively salutes O'Chul for being what a Paladin is supposed to be*

Go out in a blaze of glory, O'Chul. Maybe you'll buy V just enough time to escape. And perhaps even plant a seed in the noggin of the MitD.

*salutes O'Chul once more*

[hamishspence]

The "O-Chul" bit does strongly imply the Monster will be galvanized into some sort of actin. Not certain, but strongly suggested.

[Adeen]

This is my first post ever, and I had to create an account just to say this...

NOOOOO!!! O-CHUL!!!! I LOVE YOU!!! DON'T DIE!!!

Now that that's been said, I seriously shed a tear for this comic. And now I'm gonna be all jittery and nervous for the next couple days until the next comic is up, this one is such a huge cliffhanger. I always hoped that O-Chul and Durkon could share a beautiful lawful good drink together this was all over. He is seriously the most epic paladin ever and I hope he comes out of this somehow, but even if he doesn't, we all know he's gonna be epic even in the afterlife.

Also, I hope to see Mitd not in the darkness anymore :smallbiggrin: but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Kyeudo]

O-Chul is more manly that Chuck Norris and braver than Aragorn.

[TerrickTerran]

Elan's duh duh duh keeps running through my head. Will be interesting to see how MITD reacts.

[Lissou]

I'm actually seriously wondering if the MitD might be revealed... Is it too early? I'm not even sure...

This update is killing me. It's awesome, and yet I want more... And MitD calling him O-Chul... Does that mean he was pretending all along, when he called him Stiffy? Did he suddenly mature up?

So many questions...

[Xesirin]

O-chul is going to beat Xykon down hard, even if he ends up getting killed. I see a CMoA (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/CrowningMomentOfAwesome) coming up. :smallbiggrin:

[Damaris]

Monster-san will save O'Chul and become his epic mount, together they will smite Xykon and jump into the Rift, destroying the Snarl through pure awesome and saving the universe.

The End.

Yes! I want to believe that.
... I am a little sad about the Fiendish Cockroach though.

[Deuce]

Well that bar is blunt, could be cold iron, I'm guessing O-Chul can cast Bless Weapon (would that make it Holy?), he might be able to put some hurt on Xykon. Of course a good old Lay Hands on the lich would be a good opener as well.

[Porthos]

I gotta say, I love the fact that O'Chul could have escaped at any time. Yet he waited until what he felt was the exact right moment. He is trying to save two people with his escape. V is the obvious one, of course. But he is also trying to save the MitD.

I sure hope it works. If not today, then down the road.

Also, nice touch on the title. I would presume that the "Steel and Otherwise" bit refers to the mental cage that the MitD finds himself imprisoned in.

[Fermatprime]

Poor MitD. Poor demon-roach. Poor Mr. Stiffly.

On the other hand, at least by (very probably) sacrificing himself, O-Chul might give V a chance to escape. So that's good.

[Lord Seth]

D'oh! Now I have to wait again to find out what happens to V!

[baerdith]

Oh and I can't help adding that while I love O-Chul, Big Ears from Goblins is still the best paladin evar.

I would SO pay real gold for that comic:

"O'chul and Big Ears take on Teh Evil!!"

[Ripped Shirt Kirk]

Well, look's like Team Evil is DEAD. Or at least one of them, I mean think about it, O-chul is a combination of Chuck Noris and MacGuyvur (is that spelled right?). His real name is MaChuck :smallamused:

[DanReiv]

Can't wait for the next strip :p O'Chull is what every paladin should be (hello Miko and all the detect evil/smite evil like)


What are those things anyway?

Sod spoiler

They come from some "evil" tavern in which Xykon and Redcloack used to hang out and where the cook was doing some nasty stuff in the kitchen, allowing the demons roaches to cross a portal to the lower planes. It isn't dead don't worry, the "poof" in panel 5 is just proof that it was sent back to the lower plane, and apparantly there's plenty of them ;)

[Liliedhe]

The first 'edge of my seat' cliffhanger in a looong time. I have to agree with all those who said this comic made them misty eyed. I love O'Chul, he's a real Paladin...

Please don't die. Maybe V can save them both? :smallredface:

[IronBear]

Gah!!! First Vaarsuvius, now O-Chul! Who's next, Elan?

...

Okay, I hope I didn't just accidentally jinx anyone there...

No jinx for Elan. The story has a happy ending for him
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

[Dark Faun]

I found the ninth and tenth panels particularly moving.

I wonder if we will see O-chul in the Celestial Realms if he dies... Sure wouldn't mind seeing the devas arguing over Miko's case in the background.

[Drascin]

We salute you, O-Chul. You are an example to paladins everywhere.

Also, MitD looks really shaken by this - and will undoubtedly be more when Xykon kills O-chul. I'm wondering whether this will be what makes him shake Xykon's domination. That would be a very big "...ooops" for Team Evil, and most likely give V enough breathing room.

[Volkov]

Alas O'Chul I knew thee well.

[NeoVid]

Noooooo!!!! Not the Fiendish Cockroach! He has all the best lines!

Oh well, at least there's one more left skittering around somewhere.

What are those things anyway? They're not a summons, because they've been around too long. Maybe they're Xykon's familiars (though if so it'd more then enough hit points to survive one hit, and I have no clue how Xykon could get more then one, both of which with the fiendish template).

I think they weaseled their way through a portal that was being used for something else.

Anyway, I reaaaaally hope the MitD isn't willing to let O-chul get killed...

[HandofShadows]

I think the MitDs saying O-Chul's name is a sign of a major change in his mind (starting to make his own decisions? A barrier placed on his mind failing?). Something big is going to happen and I get the feeling that it will come totaly from left field.

Why did I get the odd feeling we will see the real "four words" from V now? I'm Probably wrong though.

[appending_doom]

I know people were suggesting something like this was going to happen, but it's still awesome to see it. Although I have to disagree that this isn't O-Chul's most awesome moment as a paladin; facing down Redcloak was. There, he was completely helpless, and still managed to "win" the encounter through the sheer force of his conviction.

Nevertheless, it's a heartwarming moment in the relationship between man and beast (or man and man, as O-Chul, despite being a paladin, still has the OoTS-verse speciesism bred into him, and can't imagine a creature being good without having to make it human).

It makes me wonder, though, if Xykon has a "strategy" (by which I mean level of brute force) for handling MitD, or, worse, if he placed a compulsion on MitD around or after the point he implanted the command to kill Redcloak if he ever betrays Xykon.

[Kaytara]

Quick, one of the rules lawyers do the math here. Xykon's already been hurt pretty badly by V's spells and the backlash damage.... Does O-Chul have a chance to take him down with an Improvised Weapon Smite Evil Power Attack?

[teratorn]

Noooo! Poor demon roach!

Bad O-Chul!

[Zevox]

Interesting. I wonder what exactly O-Chul has in mind. I don't think he's the sort of Paladin dumb enough to do something he regards as suicidal unless he honestly thinks he can accomplish something major in doing so. Yet it is ridiculously doubtful he could defeat Xykon, even with him wounded by the fight with V. Nor is it at all likely he could defeat Redcloak, who wasn't hurt much at all by V, and who is a Cleric anyway, and thus able to heal himself. And I doubt he'd think killing Jirix is a big deal, since he's just a high-ranking lackey to the real bigwigs.

So... what's O-Chul up to?

Zevox

[Gorgondantess]

.....
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww.....
'nuff said. This is hands down the most heartfelt moment in webcomics history.

[Aaron]

Go O-Chul!!! Smite Evil on Xykon in the surprise round, have V cast fly, and then RUN!!! Live to fight another day!

Hope :mitd: breaks out of the box and helps O-Chul and V escape.:smallsmile:

[[sWc]Konman]

Well that bar is blunt, could be cold iron, I'm guessing O-Chul can cast Bless Weapon (would that make it Holy?), he might be able to put some hurt on Xykon. Of course a good old Lay Hands on the lich would be a good opener as well.

im not familiar with 3rd ed, but isnt lay on hands determined by your charisma, a stat that ochul has said is his dump stat?

[musicnerd]

Oh, please don't kill off O-chul, Giant! He's really become one of my favorites. I guess if it causes MITD to rebel it's worth it for the story, but it will make me cry! :smallfrown:

[Berserk Monk]

NO! Mr. Stiffy! Mr. Stiffy! O-Chul!

Can't wait to see what happens to the greatest paladin ever. Also, I can't believe he impaled the roach.

Side note: If monster san ever sees Roy again, will he address him Flopsy?

[Glory of Arioch]

Quick, one of the rules lawyers do the math here. Xykon's already been hurt pretty badly by his fight with V and the backlash damage.... Does O-Chul have a chance to take him down with an Improvised Weapon Smite Evil Power Attack?
It's unlikely, but if it is possible, it's gonna have to happen in one shot, because Xykon is in the room with not one, not two, but three evil clerics (I'm assuming Jirix is also a cleric, due to his amulet and his tattered-in-the-exact-same-way-as-the-Red-Cloak-of-The-Dark-One cloak) ready to unload some negative energy succor upon Xykon.

[Aidan305]

I predict another tear-jerker of a comic strip coming up next.

[Kaytara]

I still think O-Chul is going to do something to the phylactery... After all, he may have heard what Soon said in the throne room, which would give his words "My task is to endure" a whole new meaning, just like the idea of waiting until the opportune moment despite having the means to escape....Whether or not this is likely depends on the OotS-verse rules for making a new phylactery after your old one has been broken....

[dvdjrkns]

O'Chul runs out there and gets slaughtered by Xykon? MITD gets mad at Xykon for killing his new buddy?

[Sotris]

I think the MitDs saying O-Chul's name is a sign of a major change in his mind (starting to make his own decisions? A barrier placed on his mind failing?). Something big is going to happen and I get the feeling that it will come totaly from left field.

Why did I get the odd feeling we will see the real "four words" from V now? I'm Probably wrong though.The real twister would be if three of those words were "anti-magic field".
Yeah I know it's impossible, I'm just saying. :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

And once again the numberologists take a hit as Belkar's 5 strips proves wrong. Given their ability to ignore previous failed numbers, I rather expect them to survive this wound and to be predicting new special strips shortly.

Right now is likely a pretty dangerous time to be making predictions. We know Xykon is going to survive, but that's about it. O-Chul should have zero chance here. He's only about 10th level. [He was inferior to both Miko and Hinjo.] He's fighting without armor and with only an improvised weapon. Still, if we want to say that V almost won and Xykon is down to single digit hp, we could justify Xykon getting dropped. But getting by the minions is another story. Maybe V is not quite out of it and manages to get off some spell like dimension door...
A more likely result is that O-Chul comes charging to the rescue just as Xykon is about to kill V, and distracts the lich [by being beat up] just enough that Redcloak is able to suggest V not be killed you since he might know something, and should be tortured. Since Xykon likes his torture toy, he may well spare O-Chul.

[liooil2000]

There is going to be yet another semi-epic battle. Probably with better results for the Good.

[whitemane]

Noooooo!!!! Not the Fiendish Cockroach! He has all the best lines!

Oh well, at least there's one more left skittering around somewhere.

What are those things anyway? They're not a summons, because they've been around too long. Maybe they're Xykon's familiars (though if so it'd more then enough hit points to survive one hit, and I have no clue how Xykon could get more then one, both of which with the fiendish template).

The fiendish cockroaches started following Xykon around after Xykon and Redcloak had coffee at an evil diner. They've been following them around ever since then. (All detailed in Start of Darkness...)

[HolderofSecrets]

:smalleek: Darn it I nearly cried at work again. I got to remember never to check the site at work or at least not read the comic.

[Porthos]

So... what's O-Chul up to?

Zevox

His plan is probably two fold. The short term plan is to provide enuf of a distraction to allow V to escape. V isn't exactly chump change on the Important Power Players of the World Hierarchy. And if V escapes (and he and O'Chul do significant damage to Team Evil while doing so) then that is a net plus for the forces of good.*


The longer term plan is probably much more important, however. It's clear that O'Chul has been working on the MitD's psyche for a long long time. So he is hoping that his example/actions will drive a wedge between the MitD and Team Evil. It's a wedge that might not be fully realized today or even tomorrow. But by planting the seed today, O'Chul is hoping that one day, perhaps in the distant future, perhaps not, the MitD will break with Team Evil.

And from what we've seen of the raw power of the MitD, that would be a significant setback for their plans.

Is O'Chul's plan going to work? We probably won't know for a good long while. But it's probably the best option that O'Chul had at handing Team Evil a huge setback. Even if it takes hundreds of strips to realize.

* Well it would be if it weren't for the long term plans of the IFCC, but O'Chul doesn't know about that small detail. :smalltongue:

[baerdith]

Right now is likely a pretty dangerous time to be making predictions. We know Xykon is going to survive, but that's about it. O-Chul should have zero chance here. He's only about 10th level. [He was inferior to both Miko and Hinjo.] He's fighting without armor and with only an improvised weapon.

Right, he WAS inferior. But he has been running the gauntlet for 4 months now, and winning, I think he is probably 13th - 14th level now.

It could be interesting........

[Woodsman]

Anyone else notice the "Suburst"?

[Gorgondantess]

His plan is probably two fold. The short term plan is to provide enuf of a distraction to allow V to escape. V isn't exactly chump change on the Important Power Players of the World Hierarchy. And if V escapes (and he and O'Chul do significant damage to Team Evil while doing so) then that is a net plus for the forces of good.*


The longer term plan is probably much more important, however. It's clear that O'Chul has been working on the MitD's psyche for a long long time. So he is hoping that his example/actions will drive a wedge between the MitD and Team Evil. It's a wedge that might not be fully realized today or even tomorrow. But by planting the seed today, O'Chul is hoping that one day, perhaps in the distant future, perhaps not, the MitD will break with Team Evil.

And from what we've seen of the raw power of the MitD, that would be a significant setback for their plans.

Is O'Chul's plan going to work? We probably won't know for a good long while. But it's probably the best option that O'Chul had at handing Team Evil a huge setback. Even if it takes hundreds of strips to realize.

* Well it would be if it weren't for the long term plans of the IFCC, but O'Chul doesn't know about that small detail. :smalltongue:

Best explanation we've seen so far.

[Silent Ninja]

Am I the only person who thinks that maybe the creature in the darkness will finally come out soon? Maybe because of something that happened during his time with Ochull?

[Taekwondodo]

Ohgoshohgoshogoshogosh! :smalleek:

Definate twang from the heart strings there. Please don't die O-Chul! *sniff*

[HOLEkevin]

Well I know what I learned. Don't be a hero!

[Querzis]

Nevertheless, it's a heartwarming moment in the relationship between man and beast (or man and man, as O-Chul, despite being a paladin, still has the OoTS-verse speciesism bred into him, and can't imagine a creature being good without having to make it human).

You missed the point so much I can only hope this is sarcasm. In Start of Darkness a goblin high priest call Redcloak a man and I'm sure you could find dozens of other example in the comic. A man is not a term that apply only to human. Hell, one argument against human I often see in fantasy is their name «human, its like they think they are the only man around here». This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwEHUPkJ7lE&feature=PlayList&p=AC87885918ABD016&index=0&playnext=1) is how most people define man and manliness.

The point here wasnt that O-chul think the MiTD is a human, the point is that he think hes not a monster but an honorable person. Geez.

[chefsotero]

Theory:
Can the MitD be an Good/Angel/Light Beeing w/ amnesia and an low INT? And the darkness desing as an form of restrain? That would be an good reason for his desire for light/sunburst. Or maybe our yeloww sun give him superpowers.... :smallcool:

[Zevox]

His plan is probably two fold. The short term plan is to provide enuf of a distraction to allow V to escape. V isn't exactly chump change on the Important Power Players of the World Hierarchy. And if V escapes (and he and O'Chul do significant damage to Team Evil while doing so) then that is a net plus for the forces of good.*
Problem: how on earth would he recognize V? Even Haley barely did, and she was the member of the Order closest to V. And what would possess him to think that distracting Xykon briefly will allow V to escape, when she's in the heart of a city controlled by Hobgoblins and patrolled by the Undead, and is in a terrible condition from her fight with Xykon? No, it doesn't seem logical for him to be trying that.

Zevox

[Taekwondodo]

Server seems to be holding up pretty well.

[Woodsman]

Server seems to be holding up pretty well.

*Server crashes*

You jinxed it!

[Mannryu]

Nothing better than a new OotS comic just before I go to bed [over 10pm here]!
I think this is the time that we've been waiting for.. MitD is going to reveal himself. And he actually remembered Mr. Stiffly's real name... nice. :smallbiggrin:

[petersohn]

:smalleek::smalleek:
O-Chul is the one who is acting as a paladin is supposed to act.

I don't really want to speculate on what will happen next. O-Chul will probably die and V escape. Or they both die. But the MitD is on a good way on being a good guy. He called O-Chul on his name: it means he is coming to his senses?

[Selene]

Problem: how on earth would he recognize V?

V's red again.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

One of my favorite strips to date. Definitely my favorite that doesn't feature one of our six heroes. Heroics, honor, friendship, character growth, and a poop joke. The five-pointed star of good storytelling.

[Morgan Wick]

Dun dun DUNNN!!!

Well, the server seems to be running along swimmingly so far.

And so begins about four to ten years of theories claiming "the MitD literally is "a good man" and the reveal will be anticlimactic because he's just an ordinary human".

Hmm. Is it important that the demon roach just disappeared when O-Chul stabbed him?

So, let's see. O-Chul thinks now is the time for action, when V has just been pwned by Xykon. He's going to do his duty, "my obligation to my dead comrades and my late Lord." And he's charging in with the bar as a spear like a jouster.

It seems obvious that he's out to take on Xykon, but if Uber-V couldn't topple Xykon O-Chul certainly can't. O-Chul may think Xykon is just weakened by using a lot of high-level spells and hopes that together with V they can at least slow him down. Or his real target is Redcloak or Tsukiko.

Hmm... he mentioned his late Lord, and though he doesn't know the details he should know Shojo wasn't killed by Team Evil. Is he listening to his inner Miko and going out to finish off Vaarsuvius? :smalleek:

[pendell]

Time to put the new server to the test: A new OOTS on a Monday afternoon.

Seems to be running well.

The strip..
*sniff*
*choke*

BWAAAAAAAA

Y'all excuse me. Gonna cry now.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[jsager1015]

Rich, I don't think people say this often enough. You tell one hell of a story.

[Woodsman]

Hmm. Is it important that the demon roach just disappeared when O-Chul stabbed him?


Fiendish creatures go back to their plane of "birth." You can't really kill them.

[Shatteredtower]

After I finish this post, I shall observe a moment of silence for a good man. Whether he somehow survives this or not, he's more than earned the respect.

Beautiful strip, Giant.

[nli10]

I think that the MITD might have just over come some kind of enfeeblement spell and may suddenly start acting a little more grown up!

[Person_Man]

Quick, one of the rules lawyers do the math here. Xykon's already been hurt pretty badly by V's spells and the backlash damage.... Does O-Chul have a chance to take him down with an Improvised Weapon Smite Evil Power Attack?

Possible, but unlikely.

If he has Leap Attack and some form of Pounce (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385), he could theoretically deal
[1d4 + (1.5*Str) + (4 *BAB) * (#of attack)] damage. This could be multiplied by something like Rhino's Rush (Paladin spell) or Battle Jump (Unapproachable East) or both. Plus he gets a bit more from Smite Evil, which can be bumped up significantly if he's using the PHBII alternate class feature (he doesn't seem to have a mount). Put that all together, and it could easily be enough to kill a wounded Xykon.

But again, it's unlikely. When he fought Xykon in the throne room (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), he only had one attack when he Charged (and potentially just one attack per round, period). His To-Hit with an improvised weapon would be low, especially for iterative attacks. And O-Chul is a Fighter X/Paladin Y with poor Charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html), so he's not going to get a ton of extra damage from Smite Evil or mid to high level Paladin spells.

But...
(PLOT SPECULATION)
But destroying his Phylactery could definitely happen.

[Porthos]

Problem: how on earth would he recognize V? Even Haley barely did, and she was the member of the Order closest to V. And what would possess him to think that distracting Xykon briefly will allow V to escape, when she's in the heart of a city controlled by Hobgoblins and patrolled by the Undead, and is in a terrible condition from her fight with Xykon? No, it doesn't seem logical for him to be trying that.

Zevox

V can fly out of the city fairly easily. Well, relatively easily at least. Well, hopefully relatively easily. :smalltongue: At the very least, V could try to hide in the city and join up with the resistance (which O'Chul might know about).

And even if O'Chul doesn't recognize V, the long term plan that I mentioned still stands. As for the short term plan, this is still an obviously high level wizard that doesn't like Xykon. So if he can help this stranger escape, then perhaps said wizard can live to fight another day.

[Ancalagon]

Cool comic. "O'Chul!"

[shadzar]

"They just brought the bucket around an hour ago." :smallyuk:

OMG! :smallbiggrin:

Thank goodness I can type while I can't see cause that line has my laughing so hard I am crying and can't read what happened after it!

[Selene]

You know, plotwise, O'Chul really should win. The whole Ultimate Arcane Power isn't everything would look nice with a side order of Paladin Winnage.

[FoE]

I think it's just O-Chul recognizing that this is his best chance to attack. A fully-powered Xykon would turn him into paste, but he might stand a chance against him now.

And even if he doesn't, he might be attacking to give V a chance to escape. O-Chul might not remember who V is, but even if he doesn't, he probably thinks that anyone willing to take on Xykon is one of the good guys.

In any case, he has very little to lose. I'd rather go down fighting than endure what O-Chul is put through every day.

The :mitd: calling O-Chul's name was strangely affecting. :smallfrown:

[Fanatic-Templar]

I like how all the paladins are treated as individuals rather than a class-based stereotype as is unfortunately common. Miko, Hinjo, Soon, O-Chul... they're all very human in the way they try to live up to their roles.

[Zerg Cookie]

:mitd:O-CHUL

I'm both sad and happy about this strip
I'm sad because I don't think O-chul is long for this world
I'm happy because the MitD finally learned O-chul's name. And it means that he has grown up.

[Green-Shirt Q]

Suburst? Was that a typo? Was that supposed to be Sunburst? :smallconfused:

I don't know what spells are used nowadays, so I don't know. Sunburst sounds more like an actual spell, though.

Either way, great, heart-warming comic!

[petersohn]

Is it a coincidence that I just watched a film where the hero went out knowing he may be assassinated just to stop the civil war? Then I come to my computer, and lo! New OOTS. WOW! Heroic O-Chul. Double WOW!

[Doug Lampert]

Quick, one of the rules lawyers do the math here. Xykon's already been hurt pretty badly by V's spells and the backlash damage.... Does O-Chul have a chance to take him down with an Improvised Weapon Smite Evil Power Attack?He can do a Lay on Hands Smite Evil if he wants.

Lay on hands is a usable attack vs. undead, it requires an attack roll and does damage, hence it can be enhanced by Smite vs. undead.

This only requires hitting touch AC rather than the typically much higher full AC.

[Vemynal]

awww, that was such good writing! I'm so endeared to those two now XD

[factotum]

I'm kind of shifting to the view that David Argall's suggestion a couple of strips ago--namely, that Team Evil needed to be defeated to force them to go to Girard's Gate--may be not far off the mark.


I think we could be seeing the beginning of a major slave uprising in Azure City. Combine that with O-Chul, V, and the MitD (who I think is a shoo-in to turn against Team Evil here, especially after calling O-Chul by his real name) and we could well have enough of a disruption to drive Xykon and Redcloak from the city!

[Silverraptor]

Alright, O-chul to the rescue! And the MitD does know his name after all. Who knew?:smalltongue:

[Teddy]

Now, what will O-Chul do with his surprise round, and who'll win initiative?

I've got that feeling telling me that someone will die pretty soon, but i'm at least happy that he will recieve a warm greeting in the celestial resting place of Lawful Good.

And :mitd: is telling him by his right name. That's pretty portentious:smallfrown:

Minor nitpick: In the first square, :mitd: requests another "suburst"...

[Ridureyu]

I still think O-Chul is going to do something to the phylactery... After all, he may have heard what Soon said in the throne room, which would give his words "My task is to endure" a whole new meaning, just like the idea of waiting until the opportune moment despite having the means to escape....Whether or not this is likely depends on the OotS-verse rules for making a new phylactery after your old one has been broken....

That's what I was thinking as I read the comic. And wow, that would totally change the strip.

[chefsotero]

You know, plotwise, O'Chul really should win.

Or at the very least take someone with him.

"Capoeira que é bom não cai, mas se um dia ele cai, cai bem." Vinicius de Moraes

"A capoeira master, if he is really good, don't go down. But if he does, he goes down in stylle" :smallcool:

[Fanatic-Templar]

Interesting. I wonder what exactly O-Chul has in mind. I don't think he's the sort of Paladin dumb enough to do something he regards as suicidal unless he honestly thinks he can accomplish something major in doing so. Yet it is ridiculously doubtful he could defeat Xykon, even with him wounded by the fight with V. Nor is it at all likely he could defeat Redcloak, who wasn't hurt much at all by V, and who is a Cleric anyway, and thus able to heal himself. And I doubt he'd think killing Jirix is a big deal, since he's just a high-ranking lackey to the real bigwigs.

So... what's O-Chul up to?

Zevox

He's going Obi-Wan, I guess. 'Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.'

[ericgrau]

:eek: Two cliff-hangers in rapid succession, what's next?


Just so no typos get missed:
Subust => Sunburst, panel 1
Than => Then, panel 9
I couldn't find anything else in the comic nor pointed out by other commentors.

[DSCrankshaw]

Problem: how on earth would he recognize V? Even Haley barely did, and she was the member of the Order closest to V. And what would possess him to think that distracting Xykon briefly will allow V to escape, when she's in the heart of a city controlled by Hobgoblins and patrolled by the Undead, and is in a terrible condition from her fight with Xykon? No, it doesn't seem logical for him to be trying that.

With smite, decent feats, and some paladin spells, O'chul can probably do 20-30 damage even with an improvised weapon (bless weapon requires no components or holy symbol, and would allow it to overcome Xykon's damage resistance). That might be enough to one-shot Xykon, depending on how much damage the sunburst and crushing hand did. It's a long shot, but it's not really the most important thing he can do.

The most important thing he can do is pass along a very important piece of intelligence--that Redcloak's holy symbol is Xykon's phylactery, which Soon mentioned (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html) while O'chul was paralyzed. Assuming he recognized V once he changed back to his usual coloring, he knows that V is part of the OotS, and that OotS needs to know the information he has. So, he needs to pass that information along to V, pick him up, and toss him out the big hole in the wall. V has fly and featherfall. Assuming that he has one of them still prepared, O'chul only needs to hold the minions off for a minute or so to allow V to go pretty much anywhere he needs to go.

Now, if there were a way for O'chul to actually get the phylactery off Redcloak, that would work even better, but I'm not sure that's the case.

[pendell]

Now, what will O-Chul do with his surprise round, and who'll win initiative?

I've got that feeling telling me that someone will die pretty soon, but i'm at least happy that he will recieve a warm greeting in the celestial resting place of Lawful Good.


We'll see. I expect his body will be fuel for Create Greater Undead. What that does to the soul is another question entirely.

Slave uprising? By 0-level commoners? Xykon says bring it on. If he doesn't meteor swarm 'em, Redcloak will Summon Monster VII to bring the fiendish elephant back to grind them to dust. If that doesn't work, Tsukiko can fly and blast them from the air like she did the outer tower guards. Or simply dominate a few and let the commoners fight among themselves while she and Team Evil chow down on popcorn.

Any one of those NPCs alone is powerful enough to defeat a slave uprising. Together? Unstoppable.

What exactly can O-chul achieve, anyway?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[FoE]

Problem: how on earth would he recognize V? Even Haley barely did, and she was the member of the Order closest to V. And what would possess him to think that distracting Xykon briefly will allow V to escape, when she's in the heart of a city controlled by Hobgoblins and patrolled by the Undead, and is in a terrible condition from her fight with Xykon? No, it doesn't seem logical for him to be trying that.


I think it's just O-Chul recognizing that this is his best chance to attack. A fully-powered Xykon would turn him into paste, but he might stand a chance against him now.

And even if he doesn't, he might be attacking to give V a chance to escape. O-Chul might not remember who V is, but even if he doesn't, he probably thinks that anyone willing to take on Xykon is one of the good guys.

In any case, he has very little to lose. I'd rather go down fighting than endure what O-Chul is put through every day.

And, of course, maybe he's trying to inspire his friend to turn away from Evil.

[[TS] Shadow]

Wow...this scene is really touching. Bravo.

[The Pilgrim]

Here comes the distraction V needs to slip away.

O-Chul going to die to force change in MitD. Quite cliché, but...

[DSCrankshaw]

But again, it's unlikely. When he fought Xykon in the throne room (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), he only had one attack when he Charged (and potentially just one attack per round, period). His To-Hit with an improvised weapon would be low, especially for iterative attacks. And O-Chul is a Fighter X/Paladin Y with poor Charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html), so he's not going to get a ton of extra damage from Smite Evil or mid to high level Paladin spells.
Depends on how many levels of fighter vs paladin he has. Smite evil does damage equal to paladin levels, and while not the highest level paladin, he's one of the highest, so he could easily have 8-10 levels of paladin.

Still, you bring up a good point. We haven't seen O'chul's mount. If he has one, now would be a good time. Maybe it's something that'll give him a fighting chance.

[Bloodrage]

Mr. Stiffly! MR. STIFFLY! O-CHUL!!

[Adeen]

You know, plotwise, O'Chul really should win.

Even if O-Chul dies, it can still be considered a win. There are many outcomes of winning if he dies. He could kill Redcloak in the process, or destroy the phylactery, and of course, if he managed to turn the Mitd, that's also still a win.

[appending_doom]

You missed the point so much I can only hope this is sarcasm. In Start of Darkness a goblin high priest call Redcloak a man and I'm sure you could find dozens of other example in the comic. A man is not a term that apply only to human. Hell, one argument against human I often see in fantasy is their name «human, its like they think they are the only man around here». This is how most people define man and manliness.

The point here wasnt that O-chul think the MiTD is a human, the point is that he think hes not a monster but an honorable person. Geez.

Your discussion isn't an argument against a universally-ingrained speciesism, but rather further evidence for it. I really don't want to get into a discussion of the use of language in fantasy in general, as that'll get too off-topic.

But the fact is that one viable way of reading the several instances you point out is that the human language has subverted other cultures so that it's become common to recognize "man" as a sign of value, as opposed to how goblins or elves or dwarves might recognize it.

I'm not saying O-Chul doesn't think MitD isn't good or that he would say that any creature does not have the potential for goodness.

But it's meaningful that he says MitD is a "good man" solely because he (and others) have referred to it as a monster, a beast.

From what we've seen of dragons, they'd probably be offended to be called "good men", because they're not human(oid), and don't recognize those qualities as defining a successful being.

And as a footnote, I'd really appreciate my serious musings not to be mocked simply because you don't agree with the point of view I'm bringing to the discussion.

[Porthos]

We'll see. I expect his body will be fuel for Create Greater Undead. What that does to the soul is another question entirely.

Slave uprising? By 0-level commoners? Xykon says bring it on. If he doesn't meteor swarm 'em, Redcloak will Summon Monster VII to bring the fiendish elephant back to grind them to dust. If that doesn't work, Tsukiko can fly and blast them from the air like she did the outer tower guards. Or simply dominate a few and let the commoners fight among themselves while she and Team Evil chow down on popcorn.

Any one of those NPCs alone is powerful enough to defeat a slave uprising. Together? Unstoppable.

What exactly can O-chul achieve, anyway?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

On the other hand, the whole point of resistance/guerilla tatics is not to fight out in the open, but to winnow/harass the enemy into leaving. Remember, Xykon wants to leave Azure City anyway. The only reason he is sticking around is that Redcloak is insisting that he can get more info from O'Chul and by searching the city.

But if O'Chul is dead and large numbers of hobgoblin troops are being killed in ambush raids, then that might provide enuf incentive for Redcloak to agree to leave Azure City. Perhaps with his army, perhaps not.

And, as I think about it, this might be O'Chul's tertiary plan. O'Chul by now might have realized that his presence is the only thing keeping Redcloak in Azure City (Redcloak already said as much to Jirix at one point (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html) and he also implied something similar in nature in a direct conversation with O'Chul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html)). If O'Chul is no longer around as a source of information and there is no chance of finding him in the city (which would be why he never escaped), then the last thing that is keeping Xykon in Azure City will be gone.

That means that Azure City might be able to be taken back one day, since all of the high powered artillery will be gone.

As I think about it, this might just be the way Team Evil is "forced" to leave. With no more people to torture, Xykon gets bored and forces Team Evil to go on the road.

Something to think about at any rate.

[Laketh Stadt]

Server passes! So far, at least :)

Going to miss the O-Chul/MITD talks but go O-Chul!

[SMEE]

O-Chul is the man. :smallcool:

This is all I have to say about this strip. Thumbs up!

[Paseo H]

My guess is that Ochul has one last ditch attack under his sleeve that will moderately inconvenience Xykon just enough to allow V to make an escape.

But I predict that V will be ungrateful, as well as not willing to admit that Roy and the others was right. Something like "Somehow, X was able to best me in combat, despite my great advantage. Then somehow I managed to escape."

[Lupy]

This is the best strip in a long time, and we've had a whole strand of great ones.

O-chul is what every Paladin should be.

[motub]

Yes! I want to believe that.
... I am a little sad about the Fiendish Cockroach though.
Yes, so was I... until I noticed that it "POP!"-ped off the end of the bar. So it was still alive enough to PlaneShift home (it is a Demon Cockroach, after all), where hopefully someone can Harm it, or Raise it after it dies, if it dies immediately.

So... he be a'right :smallsmile: It is, after all, a cockroach, and they're notoriously hard to kill.


O-Chul should have zero chance here. He's only about 10th level. [He was inferior to both Miko and Hinjo.] Umm, that was before several months of incarceration fighting sharks in acid-filled pools, etc. Not to mention the RolePlaying XP for the showdown with Redcloak. I'd imagine that O-Chul has gained at least a couple levels since we last thought about it. Xykon has burned a fair number of high-level spells fighting V, and so has Redcloak, while O-Chul has of course used none of his. And O-Chul was always pretty cagey; I'm sure he's more so now, after dancing with Xykon, Redcloak, and even to some extent the MitD.

True, he'll probably still go down. But he's gotten within a hair of doing serious damage under a much greater disadvantage than he's got now. It's a damn good chance, and I think he'll really make the most of it... There's even a fair chance that, if he aims for the right target and has a good plan, he could even have a chance of getting out alive. But I don't so much expect that; I figure it's more likely that hitting his target (whether it be the phylactery, Xykon himself, or saving V-- actually, I'm betting on "saving V", as that would be the most unjustifiable homicide on Xykon's part) will leave him in the "sacrificial position" from which he cannot escape, and the MitD will save him from Xykon's wrath.

On my own account, what an incredible strip... yeah, OK, I guess some people may complain at some point over "wall-o-text", but I enjoy that.

The thing is, "nothing happened"... it's about 2 minutes of "runtime" in which there's almost no movement, and certainly nothing "exciting" (in the sense of battle-type stuff) happens.

But it's beautiful, and like, everything happened...! There are no words to even begin to express the stupendousness of O-Chul, proving yet again why paladins exist, and why we should be grateful, honored, and awed that they do... he could have broken out months ago, but stayed to help others, because he could, because he's a paladin, and that's what it means, that he can suffer in the place of others who can't, and shouldn't have to. Oh!

Rich blew away a Demon Roach! Good glory!

The MitD is revealed to be.... good. No one seems to have noticed it, but if a paladin of the stature of O-Chul calls one a good (man), that has more meaning than just that one is "nice". I think O-Chul has actually determined that while the MitD is very, very confused, both due to its own youth and inexperience, its ignorance of its own nature, and the abuse and deception that it has suffered at the hands of Xykon and Redcloak (who have been taking awful advantage of it), it is not Evil, and in fact is Good.

Which is a big reveal to just sort of slide in there as almost a throwaway, wow!

And lastly, the MitD takes its first tentative step into the "real world" with the rest of us, by calling O-Chul by his real name, and not the pretend name of his fantasy world. Whatever happens, I think that the MitD is about to discover that there's no going back from that.... whether or not it comes out of the literal shadows, the hiding time is over, as of now.

I've never been so excited to see the followup to a strip (or TV show, or movie) in which so much "nothing" happened...

All hail O-Chul ! Success to you! I know that your life is not as important as your duty, so while I hope for your life, I hope yet more that you accomplish your duty with honor, even if it must cost your life. Because of you, I get that, now. Hail, and may the gods be with you.

[Lupy]

This is the best strip in a long time, and we've had a whole strand of great ones.

O-chul is what every Paladin should be. I'm going to miss him, and I hope he gets to impale Redcloak* before he goes down. And that the MitD then goes berserk and kills Team Evil.

*He's my favorite character and I still want O-chul to hurt and/or kill him.

[normalphil]

If I were running O-Chul's PC's game, I'd have loaded him up with role-playing XP for those past few "captivity" sessions, alone. Reason cited: "Significant sustained actions taken in the narrow field of Being A Goddamn Paladin."

But not enough to even think about soloing that Lich and his retinue.

At this point I'd conference with the PC (outside the room), and make sure to find out if he's serious about the "no tomorrow" mindset he's had O-Chul adopt. Then I'd cut him a deal- "could have made a run for it at any time" thing was impressive. He's got a boon coming to him, the gods favor you, son. If you want, you can go into that throne room leveled up and wielding the holiest sharpened piece of warped metal a Paladin ever held, and so long as you don't take anything else for granted we can see just how far you and pointy-eared kid-Faust can take this (personally I recommend grabbing the elf and getting out of there). Or we can let the chips fall where they may on that one, and I'll give an unspecified modifier to an unspecified die roll I'll be making a good while after this session has resolved itself concerning your former cell-mate. This roll won't affect this session in the slightest.

And then we'd re-enter the room.




Right, he WAS inferior. But he has been running the gauntlet for 4 months now, and winning, I think he is probably 13th - 14th level now.

It could be interesting........

[Fermatprime]

I doubt Team Evil will be seriously hurt by O-Chul; he'll almost certainly go for Xykon, and he won't be able to kill Xykon.

However, some of the other commenters have made me think

O-Chul is a major hero to the Azure City slaves. If he dies trying to take out Xykon/Redcloak, it'll very likely spark an uprising. What would make the most sense for the plot, at that point, is for Team Evil to be away and the hobgoblins to either be crushed or to put down the uprising themselves -- either way, Redcloak will have to move on to Girard's gate.

[Olo Demonsbane]

13 minutes = 6 pages. Wow :smalleek::smallamused::smallbiggrin::smallcool:

[Freelance Henchman]

Just posting to say that comics like this are what makes OOTS much more than a collection of D&D jokes. Amazing, just amazing.

[Rollory]

Ok, I'm going to put this prediction here because I want it on record somewhere, and if someone else has already made it I apologize, I don't keep up with most of the threads on here.

I think the MitD is a baby Snarl.

I think it's going to have a major part to play in the ultimate resolution of the story.

I may be totally wrong about this but ... well, finding out is half the fun.

[Freelance Henchman]

I think the MitD is a baby Snarl.


There's a scene in Start of Darkness that strongly indicates it's not something as obscure as a baby Snarl but rather something more well known.

[SandyCaesar]

Ooh, interesting...and surprisingly touching.

My prediction:
O-Chul will do some damage, but the key point is MitD. At some point Redcloak will smash Xykon's phylactery. At that point MitD's conditioning introduced in Start of Darkness wherein he will eat Redcloak should the latter threaten the phylactery will kick in, meaning one of two things: a) he overcomes it and Redcloak breaks the phylactery, or b) he fails to overcome it and eats Redcloak, but manages to smash the phylactery himself. What happens to O-Chul, Xykon, or Vaarsuvius in the meantime is anyone's guess.

[Porthos]

There's a scene in Start of Darkness that strongly indicates it's not something as obscure as a baby Snarl but rather something more well known.

Rich is also on record as saying that the MitD is not a "made up" monster, which would presumably preclude it from being a baby snarl.

Popular theory though. :smallsmile:

[Crossfiyah]

He's going to break Xykon's phylactery, I bet. He was in the throne room and overheard the entire conversation.

But I doubt he knows he has to kill Xykon for it to matter. What a shame.

[archon_huskie]

Destroying the Phylcantry also means destorying Red Cloak's unholy symbol. Not necessarily a bad thing.

O-Chul has just done something no one else in the comic ever could. He has made the Monster in the Dark worried.

[Elderac]

Go O'Chul! You are the man!

[holywhippet]

I wonder what kind of knowledge O-Chul has about liches. For one thing, his is charging with a pointy weapon - being a skeletal type undead, piercing undead is not the best choice for a weapon. He's be better off using the blunt end after casting magic weapon on it (if possible).

If he's targetting the phylactery then he could be in for a challenge. According to the SRD, a phylactery has a hardness of 20 (essentially damage reduction 20), 40 hit points and a break DC of 40. I don't know if O-Chul could manage to destroy it.

Lay on hands vs. the lich? Might work, assuming he doesn't just paralysed again from touching the lich (that might require a touch attack from Xykon though). I'm surprised that even worked in the first place though, O-Chul has a very high CON and a good fortitude save.

Lay on hands on V? That might be a better option - V could help out.

This is the perfect time to attack - Xykon should have taken a pounding from the two spells that actually connected.

[Cracklord]

And then a celestial choir did begin to play 'Eye of the Tiger,' as O-Chul went to meet his destiny...
If anyone can pull this off, it is O-Chul and his ridiculous tougnesss.

Hope he breaks the phylactery, but I suspect hhis purpose will be to give V the opportunity to escape. This will 1.) forcibly install some empathy, and 2.) further humiliate V, as V will be saved from certain defeat by a divine spellcaster.

We'll see.

[kalkyrie]

The phylactery is more important than Xykon.
It may not be possible to remake it, and even if it is it would take about 120 days, by normal D&D rules.
By comparison, Xykon will reform in under 11 days if killed.

Of course the OotS campaign may have different numbers, but you get the general idea.

The phylactery is probably easier to destroy than Xykon (40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40)

If O-Chul gets a surprise round and wins initiative, he could do a lot of damage.

(I loved the comic btw. Go O-Chul!)

[chefsotero]

And that would give O-Chull some extra badass points in my book

And is O-Chull planing to use the bar as a weapon or for pole jumping (http://www.sunfairrun.com/t&f_2006/trackphotos/5-19regionals/reg7.jpg) to reach the flying xykon? Touch attack?

[Terminalchaos]

I think laying hands on V would be more effective than Xykon (that is if V is merely unconscious.) Also O-chul's success seems contingent upon MItD's participation or intervention from some other power.

[Deepkicker]

Epic. Absolutely epic. If O-Chul dies here we may get to see the beginning of a very different Monster in the Dark.

Also, typo.

[BatRobin]

I see it this way:


O-Chul runs forward and quick-as-awesome hurls the pole into Redcloak as fast as he can. It goes through the Phylactery-and Redcloak's heart. Tsukiko/Xykon kills O-Chul (in the most heartbreaking way ever, in which we'll hate them forever), and Jirix is staring in awe at the dead Redcloak. Xykon tells Jirix to hurry up and leave before V wakes up (and says his four words, IMO, which would be 'COME...BACK...TO...ME!!!') and so Jirix screams at Xykon for not caring about DeadRed and Xykon brushes him off. MitD, outraged by O-Chul's death and Xykon's carelessness, finally snaps and explodes half the tower, and V wakes up, and ownage ensues.


Just my 2 cents.

[Drammel]

Y'know destroying the phylactery right now wouldn't do a whole lot of good. They can be remade, and as Xykon has previously stated, he's got eight hours a day to work on making magical items. By the time the Order of the Stick gets to a point where they're a credible threat to him, I'm going to bet he could make another.

Now swiping the phylactery, giving it to V and getting V the hell out of Dodge is another matter. Should that happen and V regroups with the party, the Order of the Stick can choose where and when to destroy the container for Xykon's soul, (say before a climactic final battle) which incidentally he can't do a damn thing about except hunt them down. It's like loosing one's wallet vs having it destroyed. You can replace most of the contents of your wallet if you run them through the wash. If someone steals your wallet, you dread every moment thinking of what the person who has it is doing with it.

On a 'rain-on-the-parade' moment why does anyone think that O-Chul is going to his final reward? As evidenced by V's encounter with the dragon, a soul can be popped back into a dead body, Xykon is all kinds of evil, and there's a big hole in the universe nearby where a soul devouring monster resides. Do the math. He'll reanimate O-Chul's corpse, and toss his soul along with the corpse into the Snarl. However, O-Chul is most likely aware of this possibility given his recent experiences, which makes him even more of a hero.

Really, building a golden statue of the guy and declaring a national holiday called O-Chulmass isn't enough to give credit to his heroism.

[MagMagus]

Actually, I bet the MITD is going to be enraged at O-Chul's death and at least do heavy damage to Azure City.

[derfenrirwolv]

Interesting. I wonder what exactly O-Chul has in mind. I don't think he's the sort of Paladin dumb enough to do something he regards as suicidal unless he honestly thinks he can accomplish something major in doing so. Yet it is ridiculously doubtful he could defeat Xykon, even with him wounded by the fight with V. Nor is it at all likely he could defeat Redcloak, who wasn't hurt much at all by V, and who is a Cleric anyway, and thus able to heal himself. And I doubt he'd think killing Jirix is a big deal, since he's just a high-ranking lackey to the real bigwigs.

So... what's O-Chul up to?

Zevox

Setting an example, like a real paladin should.

[David Argall]

Right, he WAS inferior. But he has been running the gauntlet for 4 months now, and winning, I think he is probably 13th - 14th level now.

Which would mean, if Xykon didn't drain away any extra levels by matching him with a wight or other level-draining undead he can order up with ease, and if he was actually eligible to earn any XP at all, that he would be about equal to Roy when Xykon effectively patted him on the head and told him to come back when he was grown, except that Roy had armor, a powerful undead-killing sword, and all sorts of other advantages. And of course Roy got owned as soon as he managed to make Xykon take him seriously. So even if we are optimists, O-Chul is way outclassed. He dies in any battle with Xykon as soon as Xykon wants to kill him.
Now he may have some chance with a desperation tactic. He attacks Xykon, who merely laughs. O-Chul then picks up V and dives out the new "window", hoping V knows Fly [& if not, the landing won't be as painful as what Xykon is going to do to them anyway.] The two then flee and hide. I'm betting against the idea, but it's more in scale with what O-Chul can actually achieve.



He's going to break Xykon's phylactery, I bet.
He might try it, but it seems too early in the story for that destruction to happen.



Depends on how many levels of fighter vs paladin he has. Smite evil does damage equal to paladin levels, and while not the highest level paladin, he's one of the highest, so he could easily have 8-10 levels of paladin.
No, that is the most he could have. Given we have not seen his mount, we can argue he has less than 5, and the talk about becoming a paladin late in life also argues for him having very few levels of paladin.
In any case, we are only giving him about a half-dozen extra points of damage to a lich with well over 100. Our fighter gets 3 feats during that period that are likely more useful in killing a lich.

[Weimann]

Am I the only one who thinks today's comic was standard run-of-the-mill? I mean, yeah, it was one of the better kinds, but it doesn't beat stuff like #400 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html), #417 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0417.html), #611 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html) or similar. I mean, yeah, it's a good comic, definitely in the upper reaches even among OotS pages, but I don't see the big moment everyone is talking about here.

Not saying O-Chul isn't the embodiment of Paladin, not saying MitD isn't showing impressive feats of intellect. Just saying it's not the best comic I've seen, and surely not the best I'll see either.

I guess I never got all to close to O-Chul.

[malakim2099]

O-Chul is what paladins should be.

Go get 'em! :smallwink:

[Y'nokhs]

:smalleek:Cue heroic sacrifice music:smalleek:

Also, I loved the "to do my duty" "Again? They just brought the bucket around an hour ago" comment.

Yeah, but no way O'chul is surviving this. Monster-san called his name. Elan could tell you that's a bad sign.

The good thing, though, is that he doesn't have to. He's sacrificing himself - he admits as much - for the good of V and Monster-san. If Xykon kills him, that could very well be the last straw for the MITD. I sense a reveal coming soon...
:xykon: vs. :mitd:
Place yer bets!

[NeonRonin]

O-Chul is what paladins should be.

Go get 'em! :smallwink:

I second that emotion wholeheartedly; THAT is how a noble warrior is supposed to behave. William the Marshal, eat your heart out.

And Ms. Miyazaki, I hope you were taking notes.

[derfenrirwolv]

Damage potential Guesstimate.

Iron bar: 1d8 damage

Strength score of 18 = +4

1.5 times damage from weapon being used in two hands= 1.5 X +4= +6

Power attack (EVERY fighter has the feat) take 10 off to hit . Add 20 to damage. (two handed weapon)

Smite evil: add cha to hit, add paladin level to damage. +8 ?

So we're looking at around 38 damage, and that's pushing it with the power attack. Xykon easily could be hurt enough for that to put him down: remember, he doesn't get to go to -10, he hits 0 and POOFS into his phylactery.

[Vorpal Soda]

Right now, I'm guessing that O-Chul being nice and reaching out to people (or monsters) is going to prove more powerful than Vaarsuvius shutting everyone out of hir's life.

[chefsotero]

For you 3.5 lawyers out there

could O-Chul use an power attack on his lay of hands? Its descrption gives the OK for unarmed or natural weapon.

If so his chance to hit and damage could increace significantly.

[Shadowbane]

I love O-Chul, and I sincerely believe he is tougher than Chuck Norris, but...

He. Is. Doomed.

[the_tick_rules]

I smell a MITD betrayal cooking. Of course he was never loyal to him anyways, he's barely aware of what's going on. O-Chul is a good example of Paladinism ain't he?

[Shadowbane]

O-Chul's a great paladin. That is a paladin, my friends. Look at it and remember it next time you play DnD. That's a paladin. That's Lawful Good.

[Mr. Mud]

I wonder what kind of knowledge O-Chul has about liches. For one thing, his is charging with a pointy weapon - being a skeletal type undead, piercing undead is not the best choice for a weapon. He's be better off using the blunt end after casting magic weapon on it (if possible).



Not necessarily used as a spear though... A club is a stick... That bar is basically a big metal stick, that was magically reinforced if that's what MitD was implying.

[H. Zee]

Vaarsuvius had 2 Epic mages and, by extension, near unlimited arcane power backing her up and she still couldn't take down Xykon. She sacrificed everything she could for this power, and it still wasn't enough.

O-Chul has a metal bar and his underpants.

And yet I still think that O-Chul stands a better chance. :smallbiggrin:

[Tobimaro]

O-Chul is everything that Miko should have been, even if he is not a straight-class paladin. Your duty may get you killed, but you have shown us the true exemplar of Lawful Good.

And for that, we salute you. :smallsmile: Here's to hoping that his example rubs off on :mitd:.

[KIDS]

Like in the strip with the game before the battle started, I'm in awe of how much emotion and thought you can squeeze into so few panels. That was brilliant :)

[Milandros]

I agree - *that* is a paladin.

[Liwen]

Wow. Just wow. I am in awe. I could really feel the MitD distress. His best friend is most probably about to DIE and he knows it...

I can say more... Rich you making me feel funny inside!

CHEERS!

[derfenrirwolv]

chefsotero For you 3.5 lawyers out there




could O-Chul use an power attack on his lay of hands? Its descrption gives the OK for unarmed or natural weapon.

Yes. Complete arcane gives rules for using touch spells in conjunction with normal melee attacks instead of touching. It is perfectly legal to cast shocking grasp and then punch someone in the face to set it off, thus gaining the additional damage of the punch. Power attack normally cannot be used with a light weapon, but natural weapons and unarmed attacks are exceptions. O Chul could even add his smite evil into the mix

While a paladin's lay on hands is not a touch spell per say, its close enough that the same rules should apply.




If so his chance to hit and damage could increase significantly

The downside of using that approach is that you have to make a normal melee attack with it, not a melee touch attack. O chul can thus make a power attack against Xykons normal AC or he can make a touch attack to "heal" his undead kiester, but can't get the benefit of both without the drawbacks of both. Neither power attack nor smite evil can be added to a touch spell (since a touch spell is not a "normal melee attack" as required by smite evil) but both CAN be added to a normal attack "Fist to the head".

Cha is O chuls dumpstat. Lets assume its a 12. (+1 bonus)

Unarmed power attack smite evil!

1d3 (unarmed attack)
+4 (strength)
+8 (paladin level)
+8 lay on hands ( +1 cha bonux X level (8)= 8
+10 Power attack (- 10 to attack)

~32 points of damage. While the lay on hands would go the Xykons damage reduction, the rest would not.

If we assume a 14 cha

1d3 (unarmed attack)
+4 (strength)
+8 (paladin level)
+16 lay on hands ( +2 cha bonux X level (8)= 8
+10 Power attack (- 10 to attack)

=40 points of damage.



Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

[elliott20]

c'mon guys, why do you all think O-Chul is gonna automatically bite the bullet? You all need to have a little bit of faith in our man here!!! Who knows, maybe O-Chul will actually do something smart like, save V and run away or something!

okay, maybe not. c'mon guys, let's not start eulogizing him just yet!

[Arachu]

:smalleek:

:mitd: Just called him 'O-Chul'!

... Oh, this'll end well (I think)...


... Though, to be fair, Xykon is still Xykon...

*crosses fingers at O-Chul*

[Ted The Bug]

O-Chul is awesome. Pure and simple.
Oh, and spelling error, unless Suburst is a spell I don't know of (I don't play DnD).

[nonamearisto]

He's going to break Xykon's phylactery, I bet. He was in the throne room and overheard the entire conversation.

But I doubt he knows he has to kill Xykon for it to matter. What a shame.

Oh, it matters. Without the phylactery, Xykon is mortal. If he is destroyed again (such as by an angry black man throwing him into a portal), he will not be coming back this time.

Besides, if he manages to recreate the phylactery, it will take him time and resources to do so, and until he does, he will be vulnerable.

[Schaffer1979]

To address an earlier comment from one of our resident DnD geeks (like myself, so no harm meant by it...I am a geek too) not every fighter takes Power Attack.

I love the fighter class, it's my favorite. And I have never taken Power Attack for my personal characters (perhaps for NPCs when I face off for the storyline) but my favorite fighter is built around dexterity and spring attack for hit and run tactics.

Perhaps it's not min/maxing based on strength but it has it's own set of uses.

[Tubal-Cain]

... remembering something about guilt being the primary weapon in Good's arsenal...

Summon Conscience (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html), actually.

[Krakes]

If O-Chul somehow manages to save V, how will he/she react to that? I'm thinking a humble "thank you" is out of the question.

Regardless, O-Chul is the most awesome non-Chuck Norris out there.:smallcool:

[berrew]

Nevertheless, it's a heartwarming moment in the relationship between man and beast (or man and man, as O-Chul, despite being a paladin, still has the OoTS-verse speciesism bred into him, and can't imagine a creature being good without having to make it human).

It's pretty standard for a character of race X to call a character of race Y "he was fully X" at some dramatic moment to emphasize the connection and minimize the "distance" between them.

Ultimately, your comment flies in the face of OoTS reality. Silver dragons aren't good? Archons aren't good? Sylphs (even ginormous sylphs) aren't good?

What about Elves, Dwarves, etc?

Your real objection seems to be with the use of "man" in the English language and Rich's choice to continue in that more traditional use of the word. The characters are unlikely to actually use colloquial English. (Or perhaps they do? But I don't seem to remember so).

[Faceist]

Wow, powerful moment at the end there, and a nice insight into how a real Paladin should act. I predict O-Chul will perish, but in doing so save V's life. As far as I can tell, the only wildcard here is how the MiTD will react to his friends death. Hopefully this will cause a shake-up in the Team Evil dynamic!

[Kgw]

*Kgw take his hat off to the Giant*

A great way to remind us why we keep on reading. No matter what it happens next, things are going to change in ex-Azure City very, very soon.


Oh, and by the way, to all of those talking about "V's real 4-words":
"I-I-must-succeed". In strip#634 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html), thank you for caring.

[Xorbon]

I liked the 1st Edition "Bend Bars roll" reference. :smallbiggrin:

My guess is that O-chul's attack will allow V to escape, and that he will pass some valuable information on to V before getting killed.

[Logalmier]

It'll be funny when Xykon is about to finish V, when O-Chul puts a metal bar through his ribcage.

:xykon:Huh, I'm pretty sure that that wasn't there a second ago.

[Sotris]

You know, Paladin armed only with a metal bar, against powerful magic user(s)... This just begs for a classical "I, with my pointy stick, will mildly annoy you" reference.

Which is exactly why the Giant won't do it. :smallwink:

[harami2000]

You know, Paladin armed only with a metal bar, against powerful magic user(s)... This just begs for a classical "I, with my pointy stick, will mildly annoy you" reference.
Alternatively, "What a time to start operating on a physical plane!", given the damage X. has already taken from V.

Good to see no love for speared roaches from the MitD. :smallsmile:

[Secris]

Man O-Chul is one BAMF. I approve Giant, I approve.

Btw, the new server made a huge difference for me. Instead of opening your website, opening my forums, reading a couple posts and then tabbing back into your site with maybe a 1 in 4 chance of it being timed out, it loads before I can even open the new tab for my forums. I don't know how much more this server is costing, but assuming it's a reasonable price I'd say you're getting your money's worth.

[Wolf_In_Exile]

Masterful story telling, thanks Giant.

[Lunaya]

*beats up a cheerleader and steals her pompoms* Go O-Chul! Go!

Hey, maybe we'll get a big reveal if the MiTD decides to back up his new friend! :smallbiggrin:

[The Wanderer]

O'Chul, everything a real paladin should be. Fare you well, man, I salute you.

*Sniff*

I've... I've got something in my eye. :smallfrown:

As far as music goes, all I can think of is:

http://x18.xanga.com/a4bf156518c31243485221/w192902112.jpg <-- There goes my hero, watch him as he goes...

[Badgercloak]

Great comic Giant. OOTS 655: Enter the O-Chul!

[Ridureyu]

Miko would not approve of O-Chul's actions. He is too distracted in fighting this "Xykon" fellow instead of facing the real threat, The Order of the Stick. unless he's planning to kill V, which would make h im okay in her book.

[Callista]

O-Chul's a great paladin. That is a paladin, my friends. Look at it and remember it next time you play DnD. That's a paladin. That's Lawful Good.He's also an experienced paladin. Not as in XP, but in terms of sheer time spent, he's probably got more experience than any other paladin in the Sapphire Guard. Contrast him and Miko. She's young and headstrong and thinks she's always right--that's a textbook example of immature LG. Contrast him and Roy, whose heart is in the right place but who hasn't got the self-control necessary to be as much an exemplar of LG as O-Chul is. Roy's further along than Miko, by a long shot, but he's also young and he's still got lots to learn.

O-Chul's defining attribute has always been humility. When we meet him, he can empty litter boxes for a presumably insane lord without being angered and feeling it's beneath him. He gets made fun of--repeatedly and painfully. He's made to seem incompetent and he doesn't even get angry. It takes a lot of experience to get to the point of considering your own life, months of pain, your dignity, etc., to be nothing more than bargaining chips in the war against evil. He's not stupid and he's not suicidal; he simply believes there are things much more important than he is.

[fruityjanitor]

Another awesome comic!

The lines "A good man" and "O-CHUL!" were both so epic that it made this "action-free" comic into an epic one.

Can't wait to see how this plays out, even if I'm worried that O-chul is going to die.

If I had to predict the next comic, I'd say that O-chul distracts the baddies long enough for V to escape and then gets killed for it (I'm sure a lot of people are expecting that). However, we know Rich likes to throw twists at us a lot, so maybe O-chul is going to live since it would be unexpected. :smallwink: And regardless of whether he lives or dies I'm not sure how V can escape. Teleport spells are in her blocked schools and her flight spell was dispelled. Maybe she has another Flight spell prepared or something...

Anyway, no matter what happens next, I can't wait to see it!

[Callista]

Plot doesn't dictate that O-Chul has to die; it's likely enough that the MitD will come to O-Chul's rescue, or that Xykon will put him in negative HP again without killing him; V could pull him out if O-Chul bought him time to chug a Cure potion. O-Chul would also make a rather good rebel leader; so it's not like his only usefulness is to die in a dramatically appropriate way. He could die--it's been probable for a while now--but then, he might not. Plausibly, I could take the story in a dozen different directions. Rich could think of a hundred more. It's definitely still up in the air.

[DrivinAllNight]

This was as everyone else is pointing out, an awesome strip, and while O'Chul may be done for, he may not be, but alas, MitD did say his name, so maybe death is finally coming to the Paladin, he will get a much deserved rest.
My 2cp on what it means for V, is that it will allow V to somehow escape the clutches of Xykon, don't know how, but somehow.

[Phexar]

And now I can't stop thinking about how does Monster's voice sounds...:smallconfused:
And "O-CHUL!!"
And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_2qFvr3SU&NR=1) as background music.

I had this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayctm5L5q_Q) playing in my head, myself.

"..... Whaddaya mean? I'm NOT gonna kick the bucket! My world is separate from this one. It just means I won't... see you again."

:smallfrown:

[krko]

Prediction
O-Chul will somehow be able to destroy Xykon's Phylactery. This, however, triggers MitD's Conditioning making him eat O-Chul. After he realises this, he goes into despair, Xykon uses this despair to convince the MitD that he'll never be anything more than an evil monster. MitD loses its mind and becomes mindless tool of Xykon Yeah, I've read far too much dark fantasy

[Wanderer]

Holy Sword... Charge... Power Attack... Smite Evil. Can it be enough to disable Xykon long enough to then destroy the phylactery?

Anyone? I'm not up on the millions of little combat rules and other editions and whatnot that give everyone special feats and such. Can O'chul pull this off? That is the question.

[Zombie Nixon]

Prediction
O-Chul will somehow be able to destroy Xykon's Phylactery. This, however, triggers MitD's Conditioning making him eat O-Chul. After he realises this, he goes into despair, Xykon uses this despair to convince the MitD that he'll never be anything more than an evil monster. MitD loses its mind and becomes mindless tool of Xykon Yeah, I've read far too much dark fantasy

That would be awesome

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Oh O'Chul, you brave, heroic, crazy fool.

Going to face an epic Lich and his allies in your underwear with naught but a metal bar as a weapon.... truly you are a good man as well.

Loved what he said to the MitD. "A good man" is terrific. I definitly sense a seed has been planted with the MitD. What will grow only time will tell (I don't think the MitD will turn at quite this moment).

I'll be sad if O'Chul does die, but at the same time happy for him and his freedom. He did it his way, and never gave up, even though for all he knows he is the last of his Order.

[derfenrirwolv]

Holy Sword... Charge... Power Attack... Smite Evil. Can it be enough to disable Xykon long enough to then destroy the phylactery?

Anyone? I'm not up on the millions of little combat rules and other editions and whatnot that give everyone special feats and such. Can O'chul pull this off? That is the question.

If o chul can cast holy sword, he'd have to be a 14 level paladin X level (many years) fighter. That would make him rival miko for most powerful member of the saphire guard, and probably put him above hinjo (who miko said was the second most powerful, although its possible she only counted paladin levels) So i don't think he can cast it.



If he could, basically, it would add roughly 13 damage to the iron bar estimates i did above, and negate xykons damage reduction (since the bar would then be both bludgeoning and magic) , which would put it around 45 points of damage. That's well within what it should take to drop Xykon after the abuse he's taken.

The components are verbal (spoken) and somantic (movement). He doesn't require a holy symbol to cast it.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

If he could, basically, it would add roughly 13 damage to the iron bar estimates i did above, and negate xykons damage reduction (since the bar would then be both bludgeoning and magic) , which would put it around 45 points of damage. That's well within what it should take to drop Xykon after the abuse he's taken.

What I am wondering is who O'Chul will attack.

He has spent long enough with them to know how it is with Team Evil and who is really dangerous. And he probably knows he can't take down all four there.

He probably wont waste time on Jirix or Tsukiko even though he stands a better chance in killing them. He knows they aren't the biggest or the most vital cogs in the machine.

Xykon is the obvious target, and in his damaged state (unless he gets fixed up by any of the three there) could be easier to destroy if O'Chul had the right tools (I don't think he has). Although if Xykon is still flying around... plus he should realize even if he destroys Xykon's body it wont make much difference in the long run unless he can follow through with what hangs around Redcloak's neck.

I'm thinking he will go after Redcloak. After all his "chats" with Redcloak I think the bearer of the Crimson Mantle and the brains of Team Evil is the one O'Chul will think he must try and kill if he is to make any difference.

Plus, he has known he could get out for some time now and has been planning so he wont waste his chance. Redcloak seems the most at risk.

[Tubal-Cain]

Prediction
O-Chul will somehow be able to destroy Xykon's Phylactery. This, however, triggers MitD's Conditioning making him eat O-Chul. After he realises this, he goes into despair, Xykon uses this despair to convince the MitD that he'll never be anything more than an evil monster. MitD loses its mind and becomes mindless tool of Xykon Yeah, I've read far too much dark fantasy

The terms were: "If Redcloak ever betrays me, eat him and spit out the amulet" How would O'Chul trigger that?

[David Argall]

Damage potential Guesstimate.

Iron bar: 1d8 damage
Probably only 1d6. After all this is just an improvised weapons and a sword is 1d8.


Power attack (EVERY fighter has the feat) take 10 off to hit . Add 20 to damage. (two handed weapon)
The trouble with this is that a lich is +5 AC, and likely has a lot of other bonuses. Our MM lich is a mere 11th level and has an AC of 23. O-Chul is only about +14. Take away the improvised weapon penalty and the power attack penalty and it's very likely O-Chul hits only on a 20. Of course that means a 20 hits big, but that is still really bad odds.


Smite evil: add cha to hit, add paladin level to damage. +8 ?
O-Chul may only be a 1st level paladin/9th level fighter. His description of his history suggests he has more fighter levels than paladin.
His charisma is also quite low for a paladin. He describes charisma as a dump stat. On a point-buy system, 12 is not a dump score. 8 is much more likely, with a charisma penalty. So O-Chul likely can't cast any spells, which means his damage is reduced by 15 by the lich damage reduction. So his odds are really grim.

[mec]

And O-Chul joins Inkyrius as a new member of Order of the Stick.

[dragon_bagon]

Cages. They have never been particularly useful in this comic, have they? May I remind you: The entire cast is now stuck in jail. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0260.html) But look! The lock was picked! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0262.html) Xylon traps Miko in a forcecage! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0370.html) Oh wait never mind. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0373.html) Look! Elan and Thog are now in jail! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0367.html) But look! they escape very soon after! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html) There are many more useless cages within this comic, and now that The Giant has named how MitD is controlled by Team Evil a cage just like all the cages it hasn't long to stand.

[derfenrirwolv]

Probably only 1d6. After all this is just an improvised weapons and a sword is 1d8.

Well, a quarterstaff is d6, this is a metal one, so i'm thinking d8. A sword is a one handed weapon, the iron bar requires 2 hands, so thats the wrong comparison. For two handed weapons, a quarterstaff is a d6, a greatclub is a d10, so i'd put this between the two.

Heck, since you can pick up a stick and call it a great club, the iron bar might qualify as such.



Quote:


The trouble with this is that a lich is +5 AC, and likely has a lot of other bonuses. Our MM lich is a mere 11th level and has an AC of 23. O-Chul is only about +14. Take away the improvised weapon penalty and the power attack penalty and it's very likely O-Chul hits only on a 20. Of course that means a 20 hits big, but that is still really bad odds.

Its O'chul.



Originally Posted by derfenrirwolv View Post
Smite evil: add cha to hit, add paladin level to damage. +8 ?
O-Chul may only be a 1st level paladin/9th level fighter. His description of his history suggests he has more fighter levels than paladin.

Could be. This is a guesstimate after all.




His charisma is also quite low for a paladin. He describes charisma as a dump stat. On a point-buy system, 12 is not a dump score. 8 is much more likely, with a charisma penalty.

I don't think OOtS is point buy. Some of the characters seem to have much better point spreads than others. Also, point buy is not the default system, especially with old school gamers.



So O-Chul likely can't cast any spells,

Paladin spells are based on wisdom, not charisma. O chul has shown he has wisdom to spare.

[PercyBlakeny]

TYPO: Suburst. Should be Sunburst.

Loved it!:smallbiggrin:

[AdInfinitum]

:smallcool:?

O-Chul is almost certainly rushing to his death, and this topic gets :smallcool:!?

[Dr. Cthulwho]

:smallcool:?

O-Chul is almost certainly rushing to his death, and this topic gets :smallcool:!?

But he is so :smallcool: about it.

[DSCrankshaw]

Well, a quarterstaff is d6, this is a metal one, so i'm thinking d8. A sword is a one handed weapon, the iron bar requires 2 hands, so thats the wrong comparison. For two handed weapons, a quarterstaff is a d6, a greatclub is a d10, so i'd put this between the two.

Heck, since you can pick up a stick and call it a great club, the iron bar might qualify as such.
O'chul only needs a first level Paladin spell to overcome Xykon's damage reduction: bless weapon, which expressly makes a weapon both magic and good for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction of evil creatures. Magic weapon would be better, but that requires a divine focus, which O'chul doesn't have. Bless weapon does not. Assuming O'chul has at least 4 paladin levels, and a Wisdom of 12 or better (which certainly seems to be the case), he ought to be able to cast the spell.

If he has at least 5 levels, he has a mount, which greatly improves his chances.

[Lombard]

I usually don't post in OoTS because it's lost in the shuffle but I feel obligated to do so in this instance.

My hat is off to you, Mr. Burlew. This strip transcended the medium.

I've always loved the funny quips and the pop culture references and the D&D arcania, and never want to see that go, but this panel was nothing short of inspirational. It's a testament to your artistry that the story can flow seamlessly through all its various moods and reach a point like this. Thank you and keep up the good work.

[banjo1985]

Poor MitD, no sooner does he make a new friend than they run off towards near certain death.

Great strip, I do hope O-Chul survives, he's a bit dull but his honesty abs straightforwardness is refreshing.

[Kaytara]

I wouldn't write O-Chul off just yet. Don't forget, the MitD wants him to "escape and live happily ever after", and he now finally has the guts to make that come true himself. Besides, if the MitD goes into rage mode on behalf of O-Chul, nothing says he has to do so AFTER O-Chul gets killed. He may just as easily step in and save O-Chul from the final blow. What I think will happen is that the MitD will start stomping and whatnot and bring the tower down. The confusion and chaos should provide V and O-Chul with the perfect opportunity to escape.

[warmachine]

There's no punchline for this episode. Yeah, I know, it's a dramatic episode, not a comic one.

[Azukar]

:smalleek::smallbiggrin:

I've always admired the storytelling in this comic strip.

[Callista]

There's no punchline for this episode. Yeah, I know, it's a dramatic episode, not a comic one.Hey, we got a poop joke, how much more do you want?!

[Milandros]

There's no punchline for this episode. Yeah, I know, it's a dramatic episode, not a comic one.

Something to realise is that Rich is, to a certain extent, now writing books, which he posts individual pages of here. To get the proper appreciation of any strip you really have to read it together with the others. Each strip is no longer meant as a stand-alone work.

Rich has no income from the comic on the site at all, except in as much as it encourages people to buy the printed books (note the lack of adverts for anything else here). It's understandable that he's concentrating on arcs and multi-strip scenes rather than single page gags.

[Nevadie]

The trouble with this is that a lich is +5 AC, and likely has a lot of other bonuses. Our MM lich is a mere 11th level and has an AC of 23. O-Chul is only about +14. Take away the improvised weapon penalty and the power attack penalty and it's very likely O-Chul hits only on a 20. Of course that means a 20 hits big, but that is still really bad odds.



I'd Like to take a que from Elan here. 1/1000000 chance he will make it? It's pretty much gurenteed he will then.

[The Pilgrim]

I foresee... I foresee...

O-Chul goes all Obi-Wan. Xykon kills him

MitD enters in rage mode and destroys Azure City. Totally. To the ground and below it. If he can provoke an earthquake with a little stomp, I'm pretty sure he can even rise a Volcano if he unleashes all his power.

In the chaos, V manages to flee, the slaves manage to flee and Team Evil and their remaining goons, lacking any more reason to stay in, move to the next gate.

O-Chul? three possible outcomes:
- wishful thinking: V takes his corpse with hir, to the Azurites for resurretion.
- rational thinking: His corpse will be lost during the destruction of Azure City
- wicked thinking: He will be raised as a Greater Undead by Team Evil, and used as puppet to put MitD back into control.

[Pandabear]

Taking a stab at predicting:

O-Chul casts a healing spell that only does 1d3 damage to Xykon, putting him at negative hit points as payback for the Ray of Frost.. Not going to happen, but it'd be funny :smalltongue:

[Swampthing500]

Hey, first time poster.

Am I the only one thinking O-chul is pretty much an idiot for blindly marching to a pointless death when he could escape and continue to fight and help others?

[Kaytara]

Hey, first time poster.

Am I the only one thinking O-chul is pretty much an idiot for blindly marching to a pointless death when he could escape and continue to fight and help others?

Continue to fight and help others? Help them do what, though? Oh, right, fight Xykon.:smalltongue: O-Chul has his chance to do that right now, a better chance than will likely ever present itself - I assume this strip is taking place concurrently with late 652/653, so Xykon is both distracted and already damaged. It's a beautiful opportunity.

[Swampthing500]

Continue to fight and help others? Help them do what, though? Oh, right, fight Xykon.:smalltongue: O-Chul has his chance to do that right now, a better chance than will likely ever present itself - I assume this strip is taking place concurrently with late 652/653, so Xykon is both distracted and already damaged. It's a beautiful opportunity.

Seriously, how could a Paladin with an iron rod hurt even a wounded Lich?

He will die, and he knows it. There is nothing to be accompished. He is a resource which is better saved rather than expended in a futile gesture.

[Military Man]

*Fires a 21 gun salute, then plays the last Post*

O-Chul, he's probably going to die and allow V to escape, foolish, but brave.

[Callista]

"He will die" is not synonymous with "futile gesture". O-Chul is probably guessing that some of Xykon's inevitably many enemies have attacked, and is going to take advantage of the situation. Many soldiers die even on the side that wins the battle, and O-Chul probably hopes to be of use even if he does die. Remember those Fighter levels? He's a soldier at heart, most likely. Even a level 1 commoner can land a critical hit every once in a while, and even with nothing but commoners, all those arrows really do add up. O-Chul's far from a Commoner; he knows he could conceivably land enough of a blow to make a difference.

[Swampthing500]

"He will die" is not synonymous with "futile gesture". O-Chul is probably guessing that some of Xykon's inevitably many enemies have attacked, and is going to take advantage of the situation. Many soldiers die even on the side that wins the battle, and O-Chul probably hopes to be of use even if he does die. Remember those Fighter levels? He's a soldier at heart, most likely. Even a level 1 commoner can land a critical hit every once in a while, and all those arrows really do add up.

Sounds pretty futile since he has no chance of killing Xykon.

There is no point in throwing away the life of a valuable individual whose skills and abilities can be utilized elsewhere.

[Callista]

Not by himself, no.

But he doesn't know who else may be attacking, and for all he knows, killing O-Chul could be the vital distraction that Xykon's attackers need to re-kill him. Really, O-Chul won't get much of a better chance than this; and he could even get lucky enough to survive. He's likely to be tough enough to take a few spells and keep going, depending on what the spells are, and also likely to be underestimated.

[Swampthing500]

Not by himself, no.

But he doesn't know who else may be attacking, and for all he knows, killing O-Chul could be the vital distraction that Xykon's attackers need to kill him. Really, O-Chul won't get much of a better chance than this.

The recon and see what is happening, do not just blindly take the chance.

Do you agree that it would make more sense to escape and rebuild rather than charging blindly into the fray?

[Callista]

Depends if escape is possible; escaping the cage and escaping Xykon altogether are two different things. And providing a distraction at a critical moment could do more than a lifetime of resistance work, if it were done right. One presumes O-chul has been finding out what he can about the "security system", though, and knows whether it's possible to escape.

[Swampthing500]

Depends if escape is possible; escaping the cage and escaping Xykon altogether are two different things. And providing a distraction at a critical moment could do more than a lifetime of resistance work, if it were done right. One presumes O-chul has been finding out what he can about the "security system", though, and knows whether it's possible to escape.

That's going into "what if" territory.

All I see are two situations right now: escape and possible death, or attacking and certain death.

I believe the purposeful death of O-chul is wasteful.

[motub]

I assume this strip is taking place concurrently with late 652/653, so Xykon is both distracted and already damaged. It's a beautiful opportunity.
Gotta be-- otherwise somebody would have noticed
1. the sight or sound of O-Chul breaking out;
2. the sound of the conversation between O-Chul and the MitD
3. the MitD's anguished cry.

Since it was in the same room, and it's quite possible for one of the 4 antagonists to have had clear line of sight (even peripherally) at some point if they had been looking, which they clearly weren't, because there was a boss fight going on.

So I'm thinking that the first panel of the "next" strip (assuming we stay here, which we'd better!) will begin with a more panoramic view of the ultimate moment of #653--"WHHNK!"-- as this side trail presumably re-merges with the main action at that point.

On another note, no-one seems to account for (or maybe I missed it), the fact that O-Chul has a very good chance of a Surprise bonus to his attack (since no one is paying attention to him), doesn't he? I don't remember if Flat-footed is separate/additional to surprise, but if he goes for Redcloak, O-chul ought to catch him Flat-Footed as well as surprised. Theoretically, if he's coming from behind them as suggested in #651, he might even be able to bash both Redcloak and Tsukiko in the head and render them both at least unconscious (or at least her unconscious, since she's likely completely unbuffed having just woken up from sleep. Since we really don't want her mixing in with some Necromantic touch attack, having her knocked out would be just great).

It's a really good chance.... too bad he's got too many things to do (3, or 4, if you count "Escape!" :smallsmile: as one as well) when this opportunity will only likely allow for one of them to be completed successfully (maybe two, if he's agile and has a good plan).

Oh, and the new server is great!!

[Estelindis]

Its O'chul.
No, it is not: it's O-Chul. Observe the final desperate cry of Monster-San, the climax of this current comic. The paladin's name is even in a comic title (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) ("546: O-Chul's Razor"). If you're going to correct someone, perhaps you should first check that you're actually right? (Also, it's "it's"...)