Let's make a Videogame! a call to arms for old time's sake

[alexeduardo]

Hey! Remember a thread, a long while ago, where we got together and started to lay the foundations for a videogame? I remember. I also remmeber it was gonna be awesome.
I bring this up because not only do I finally have the free time to log in again, but also because I've been reading a handful of game design articles and have done some thinking of my own. about the game.
I think I have some good ideas for innovation on the dreaded Karma bar, but then again, you guys always seemed to be better than me on this.
I want to see if I can get the old squad together again, I'm gonna try to track you down. One by one. You thought you were out, but here I am, dragging you back in.

Also, if you're creative or know a good artist, send me a Private Message and share your ideas with me. I promise not to rip you off. We were thinking of making an action rpg (none of that turn-based nonsense) in which the protagonist was a warrior inquisitor working for a centralized church on a ruined wild-westian world. I was thinking of our big innovation being a creative and even anime-ish gunswordplay gameplay and a complex moral system. But then again, I'm sure you have great ideas too.

[SilverSheriff]

Black Pants reporting in.

If I remember correctly we were going to have a Mass Effect-esque dialog system.

[Geno9999]

I think there was a cowboy along the line.

[Blayze]

the protagonist was a warrior inquisitor working for a centralized church on a ruined wild-westian world.

Sounds interesting. Is this inquisitor on missionary duty, trying to bring religion to the masses -- whether they want it or not -- by kicking the church's enemies in the face?

[Geno9999]

No, I think it was kicking the chruch of chaos or the lawful half of the God.

[SilverSheriff]

the world was going to be a world split in 2; one half was to be wild western and the other was going to be Medieval-esque. the God of the world was going to be vengeful on the Medieval side and forgiving on the Western. you had a choice of picking your origin ala: Mass Effect except it was going to be to a large extent. The protagonists was going to have an eastern European name thats hard to pronounce so it was open to interpretation.

[alexeduardo]

Welcome, Black_Pants_Guy!
And, ImmortalAer, your forum looks kind of nice. I'll be sure to make a thread in the design area, but I think most of the action will take place here until we can get the old team back together. I'll make sure to post a link.

Also, to whom it may concern, I've got this concept in my mind of multiple slidebars. You see, today's videogames Fail when it comes to moral choices because they tend to boil ethics to Save Kitty-Eat Kitty descicions. Which aren't really moral choices as much as they are choices between basic human decency and psicopathy. My idea is to have many (up to ten) different areas that change according to the player's choices. I would also like to make the choices less obvious and more complex, so that you may move different slidebars in one action.
But I'll go into more detail on the Playground Studios design subforum.

[Blayze]

Why the whole "world split in two" angle? Surely technological advances, cultural and social trends and everything else would -- at the very least -- have bled over between the two halves? Unless of course the two halves were isolated and transportation between the two was only recently possible -- or at the very least, popular -- in which case I can understand why they'd both be separated from each other due to the relative newness of contact between the two areas.

Also, the forgiving/vengeful god split sounds like yet another case of "good vs evil". Where's the shades of grey? I suppose, however, if the "vengeful" god was stern but fair and the "forgiving" god far too accepting of sinners ("Sorry dude, didn't mean it." "That's okay. As long as you know you did wrong." "Same time tomorrow."), I could see how -- especially if the two cultures were at the very least affected by how they saw their god -- each side would decide the other side was wrong.

For example, if the Medieval side revolved around justice -- sure you were treated like scum if you were a criminal, but at least it was fair treatment -- then its inhabitants might look at the Western side and think "Those guys are morons! That serial killer murdered a few hundred people, but because he blubbed in court they got let off with a slap on the wrist!"

(Granted, said "slap on the wrist" might consist of a bullet to the head rather than prolonged torture carried out by the families of their victims, but to people on the Medieval side that would be letting him off easily.)

Edit: Ninja'd by Alex. Heh.


My idea is to have many (up to ten) different areas that change according to the player's choices.

I remember a mod for Baldur's Gate 2 called Virtue. Since the basic game monitored "Reputation" (How NPCs viewed you because of your actions) but didn't change your alignment except at specific points -- where, I believe, the only way was down at speed -- Virtue was created to track your party's actual "goodness".

Thus, it was possible to do bad things if nobody saw you without losing Reputation. Virtue, on the other hand...

[alexeduardo]

Hey, there were other people involved in this. And it's still pretty preliminary.

I've always been intrigued by how civilized places like Britain, France or Spain had these horribly barbaric colonies all over the world. In my mind, there should be a small cultural buffer zone between the edge of the world and the center of civilization, and it should be that buffer zone the one that has the most forgiving god while the others cannot afford to look weak. (but that's only a concept of mine)
Part of the point of the game is that, at the en of the day, they're both the same god, it's just that their followers insist on their own self-righteousness and insist on dividing him. In other words, gods don't kill people, people do.
In the name of God.

EDIT:


I remember a mod for Baldur's Gate 2 called Virtue. Since the basic game monitored "Reputation" (How NPCs viewed you because of your actions) but didn't change your alignment except at specific points -- where, I believe, the only way was down at speed -- Virtue was created to track your party's actual "goodness".

Thus, it was possible to do bad things if nobody saw you without losing Reputation. Virtue, on the other hand...

Well, yes. Part of the game will be based on the principle of Integrity being what you do when no one's looking. It would be entirely possible to be a whealthy landlord with sons all over the world but still be a snobbish Holier-than-thou aristocrat. At least, I think it would add a lot of depth and maybe even make the player feel a little guilt.

[alexeduardo]

I have posted on the other forum (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/let-s-make-a-videogame-but-first-what-was-the-title-again-t6.html#p23)

please register there, I feel safer in such an empty forum that in here.

[Geno9999]

I've joined, I'm GenoKnight on there, just to let you know.

[Kara Kuro]

If you guys need an artist for some of the concept art/design, I could probably help some. Not too great with computers as I'm more of a traditional medium kinda' girl, and my computer is a horrible piece of horrible as it is.

But you're project sounds very interesting though, keep me posted.

My giantitp art thread lives here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104410) and my deviantart lives here here (kara-pfee.deviantart.com)

[alexeduardo]

If you guys need an artist for some of the concept art/design, I could probably help some. Not too great with computers as I'm more of a traditional medium kinda' girl, and my computer is a horrible piece of horrible as it is.

But you're project sounds very interesting though, keep me posted.

My giantitp art thread lives here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104410) and my deviantart lives here here (kara-pfee.deviantart.com)

We'd be more than happy to welcome you. Please send more of your drawings to me via PM. We're looking for a Neo-dark art style here. I think your style of anime-ity could work, if maybe you'd get depressed :smallbiggrin:

[LurkerInPlayground]

Sounds interesting. Is this inquisitor on missionary duty, trying to bring religion to the masses -- whether they want it or not -- by kicking the church's enemies in the face?
There is a distinction between an inquisitor and a missionary.

One is about destroying evil (whatever that means according to his religion) and the other is does more proselytizing.

The image that comes to mind is a guy who gathers information and kills the enemies of his church. He might proselytize, but I hardly see it as being the main focus of a professional Inquisitor.

[Llama231]

This looks interesting...:smallamused:
Sign me up, I am generally best at making lists and other crunch.
I will PM the OP.

[R. Malcovitch]

I'm relatively good at level design. I'll sign up for some design position, as long as it's an action game (or action/rpg).

I've used the Torque game builder engine and the Unreal toolset, and I learn new engines quickly. I can't do a whole lot of scripting though, I know a little but not enough to do anything of significance.

However, before I do anything I need to know just what it is we're creating here. I'm not talking about worlds or mythoses or stories, I'm talking about mechanics. First of all, are we doing side scroller, top-down, 2.5D, or 3D? For 2.5 or 3D is it overhead, over-the-shoulder, or first person? For the first two, is camera fixed or rotatable (although rotating camera with 2.5D is suicide) I can do all of them, though 3D takes at least ten times as long as any other.

What's the combat system like, turn-based or real time? What's the mechanics of combat, stat based (most RPGs), item based (most FPSs), luck based (tabletop), or aim based (other FPSs, only works with firearms and other projectiles)?

That's just the tip of the iceberg. I can come up with answers to any or all of these if you'd like me to. My experience is mostly in top-down and 2.5D games, both fixed camera. I loathe turn based combat, and prefer a statless system whose combat is weapon based. As for stories, I much prefer dynamic storytelling rather than static, IE zero railroading. If you shoot a guy, he's dead and the story proceeds with him dead. If you let him live he continues to live. My games' stories are flowcharts, not novels.

[Llama231]

Created an account and posted stuff on forum.

[Geno9999]

Is there any free game makers that I can get? I don't do game levels, but if I put my mind (and my summer) into it, I might help more with the game. Otherwise, I'm going to do concepts.

[alexeduardo]

I'm relatively good at level design. I'll sign up for some design position, as long as it's an action game (or action/rpg).

Action rpg is about right. I would like to see some prototype levels with bandits, small imps, giant gargoyles and whatnot, go crazy.



I've used the Torque game builder engine and the Unreal toolset, and I learn new engines quickly. I can't do a whole lot of scripting though, I know a little but not enough to do anything of significance.

Well, we are gonna need to find a good scripter, eventually. Do you know anyone on the algorythm business?


However, before I do anything I need to know just what it is we're creating here. I'm not talking about worlds or mythoses or stories, I'm talking about mechanics. First of all, are we doing side scroller, top-down, 2.5D, or 3D? For 2.5 or 3D is it overhead, over-the-shoulder, or first person? For the first two, is camera fixed or rotatable (although rotating camera with 2.5D is suicide) I can do all of them, though 3D takes at least ten times as long as any other.

3D single-player action rpg. I was thinking of a camera more or less like what KOTOR has, maybe a little less roamy for the big elaborate gun-kata battles (you've heard of Devil May Cry, I hope)


What's the combat system like, turn-based or real time? What's the mechanics of combat, stat based (most RPGs), item based (most FPSs), luck based (tabletop), or aim based (other FPSs, only works with firearms and other projectiles)?

Well, I'd like there to be a Devil May Cry-like combat system, maybe even borrow something from (dare I say?) Ninja Gaiden. But I would also like there to be the possibility to play the game as some sort of Gears of War-esque shooter.



I loathe turn based combat,
As for stories, I much prefer dynamic storytelling rather than static, IE zero railroading.
If you shoot a guy, he's dead and the story proceeds with him dead.
My games' stories are flowcharts, not novels.

Good god man, just ask me to marry you already. This are all good things, we should all try to work from this perspective. If you promise to follow these priciples, you shall be welcomed into the team.

[Llama231]

Okay, so lets see what we have.

We were thinking of making an action rpg (none of that turn-based nonsense) in which the protagonist was a warrior inquisitor working for a centralized church on a ruined wild-westian world. I was thinking of our big innovation being a creative and even anime-ish gunswordplay gameplay and a complex moral system.
So, Wild West/Medieval Europe with hints of Japan


If I remember correctly we were going to have a Mass Effect-esque dialog system.
Don't know too much about this.


I think there was a cowboy along the line.
Wild West.


the world was going to be a world split in 2; one half was to be wild western and the other was going to be Medieval-esque. the God of the world was going to be vengeful on the Medieval side and forgiving on the Western. you had a choice of picking your origin ala: Mass Effect except it was going to be to a large extent. The protagonists was going to have an eastern European name thats hard to pronounce so it was open to interpretation.
Eielan? Random hard to pronounce.gender neutral name. Still, I thought that the player would pick a name or something.


My idea is to have many (up to ten) different areas that change according to the player's choices. I would also like to make the choices less obvious and more complex, so that you may move different slidebars in one action.
Slidebars? Sidebars?


I remember a mod for Baldur's Gate 2 called Virtue. Since the basic game monitored "Reputation" (How NPCs viewed you because of your actions) but didn't change your alignment except at specific points -- where, I believe, the only way was down at speed -- Virtue was created to track your party's actual "goodness".
Sounds good.


We're looking for a Neo-dark art style here.
What would this be?


Action rpg is about right. I would like to see some prototype levels with bandits, small imps, giant gargoyles and whatnot, go crazy.

It appears that there is no magic/monsters, so bandits, etc.

Well, we are gonna need to find a good scripter, eventually. Do you know anyone on the algorythm business?
Not really here. At least none who would bbe motivated enough.


3D single-player action rpg. I was thinking of a camera more or less like what KOTOR has, maybe a little less roamy for the big elaborate gun-kata battles (you've heard of Devil May Cry, I hope)

Well, I'd like there to be a Devil May Cry-like combat system, maybe even borrow something from (dare I say?) Ninja Gaiden. But I would also like there to be the possibility to play the game as some sort of Gears of War-esque shooter.
Sounds good.


I loathe turn based combat,
As for stories, I much prefer dynamic storytelling rather than static, IE zero railroading.
If you shoot a guy, he's dead and the story proceeds with him dead.
My games' stories are flowcharts, not novels.
Good.


Lawful-Free Spirit (also known as chaotic)

Some people associate "chaotic" with evil, therefore I propose we replace it with a more accessible term. Note that lawful doesn't necessarily mean "Good", but it does help your image with your superiors as well as with your inferiors. Suppose that you're ordered to torture someone; if you do it, you will probably get a promotion and gain access to better gear, not to mention that a higher rank will mean more respect and less problems, but then again, torture is wrong and you'll probably gain guilt. (unless this is a routine thing for your character in which case you'd end up as a rationalized psychopath of some sort or another)

Huh.


Aristocrat-Populist

The word aristocrat, in its purest form, refers to putting those that are better in charge. an Aristocrat character would make the assumption that the town sheriff is smarter, since he's in charge and take his word that a local thief got drunk and stole a Government goat. Whilst a Populist will first talk to the people of the town and find out that the sheriff himself took the goat and sold it to the Barbarians (I'm just throwing out concepts here). What would be more interesting would be to see an Aristocrat learn of the Sheriff's crime but still punish the local thief, thinking that the Frontier territories cannot afford to have the church's authority undermined.
I suppose that an Aristocrat would be a better fighter against common bandits and lower-class people, while a Populist will actually be aided by them and might end up banding a small (or large?) army together to fight the demonic horde. (did I mention the demonic horde?)
interesting.


Meritocrat-Politician
This should be pretty obvious. A meritocrat would be someone that only seems to advance over large stretches of time, while a Politician talks and bribes his way to the top. I have this idea where an old and wrinkled and scarred Meritocrat character might be hateful of a young and fat and short Politician. The difference here is of how you make it to the top of the Holy hierarchy
Still good.


Zen- Guilt Ridden (maybe Tormented)
I suppose that a Zen character would be more affable and easy to deal with, while a Guilt Ridden one would be better at madly unleashing his savage side on the enemies of the church. This is a deeper aspect than any other, I would really like to make it so that a player seeks atonement for something he did, not something he saw on a cut scene.
??? We want the character to have as much freedom as possible, so definitely not atoning for something that happened in a CUT SCENE.


Pragmatist - Idealist
This should also be obvious. A pragmatist will be a cold calculator and will do only what is logical, regardless of any outer emotional input. An Idealist, on the other hand, believes so strongly on his cause that is willing to die for it. I would like for there to be slight game-breaking super-bonuses for highly idealist characters, kind of like a mind-beyond-matter feat or miraculous effort that can be used every once in a while.
Hmmm.


Sounds too complicated. I wouldn't have more than 2 bars, and if you steal the system from D&D, it works perfectly. You could have a nice square, with lawfulness on the y axis and goodness on the x axis, for example. Renaming the alignments to avoid similarity with D&D would be an option.

Lawful good------------------Chaotic good

---------X

Lawful evil---------------------Chaotic evil

So it's essentially 2 bars but it gives a nice way to present it (a square with gradients of colour, e.g. blue for l/g, green for c/g, red for l/e and purple for c/e.

I suggest this for two reasons:
-2 stats makes a lot more sense for programming and "internal" game design purposes, since managing and considering lots of variables will be confusing, if nothing else.
-All the bars you've given so far are covered with these 2 traits here.
zen-guilty = lawful-chaotic
pragmatist-idealist = lawful-chaotic (and ruthless pragmatism/idealism is accounted for by evilness)
aristocrat-populist: lawful-chaotic
meritocrat-politician: lawful-chaotic with a splash of good-evil
I like this.


Anyway, the Idea of talking midbattle isn't a bad idea. However, most of the ones that I can think of right now would count as taunts that might make a enemy fight harder.
Always good.


Okay, obviously, there should be some class only taunts/sayings that they will use.
Inquisitor (Lawful):
"god is not willing to hear your pleas for mercy."
"Followers of the devil (what some might call the chaotic god), beware! You are not freed from our laws."
(Chaotic):
"I don't need any rules to know how to beat you."
"This is fun!"
Taunts are good.


On the Gun/Sword weapons.
Short Sword.
The standard sword. basic abilities and average weight makes it easy to use and learn.
Katana.
A swift and light sword that has only below average power.
Muramasa (because all games that have a Katana has this. :mrgreen: )
A vastly more powerful katana. Slowly drains health while in use.
Pistol.
standard gun. weak, but fast and accurate.
Rifle.
A powerful gun with good range and accuracy. Suffers from long reload time (Cannot fire while gun is reloading. You can use gun as a blunt object however.)
Sniper Gun.
A rifle with enhanced range, accuracy and power. The only draw back is long reload rate. (has zoom function.)
IOf magic does not exist, we should avoid magic weapons. Same for technologically advanced ones.


On Sword and Guns:
Wait, why are there Japanese weapons in a western-medieval setting?
Unless is is medieval Japan as opposed to medieval Europe?
Some Sword Ideas(Both) (Not including previously posted ones.):
Trainer: Weakest sword, made of wood.
Claymore: Larger, heavier, slower. 2 hands.
Longsword: Longer, better in general. Base sword.
Broadsword: Large, but can be used in 1 hand if trained. Not particularly fast.
Scimitar: Faster, more accurate.
Rapier: Much lighter, good against armor.
Flamberge: Sword made for working well against other swords.
Greatsword: Like a claymore, but better.
Cutlass: Like a sscimitar, but with a small defensive bonus.
Sabre: Better version of broadsword.
Foil: Very thin and light. Quite weak. Pretty much ignores some armor though.
Bokken: wooden kantana. Enough said.
Zweihander: A sword made for countering pole arms. Slowish, but breaks ling weapons/pushes them aside well.
Vague Katti: Super defensive.
Falcoin: 1 handed, but can use 2 hands for more power.
Wakuzashi: Short kantana. Made for fighting while using both.
[Named Swords]: Excalibur, Ascalon, Balmong, whatever, a magic and/or powerful sword that is one of a kind and named.
[Magic Swords]: Have a magical spell or whatever effect when used.
Killing Edge: From Fire Emlem. Great for critical hits.
Damascus: A better version of a kantana.
Healing?Blood?: Heals the user when the attack with it.
Valmanway: From Castlevania. Insanely fast sword.
Claimh Solias/Sword of Light: Instantly killed most evil things, very powerful, maybe light-based burst affect?

This is always useful too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_swords

As for guns, I have less to say other than the suggestion to remain more focused on less technologically advanced ones, as western technology is not so far. Unless this is not true.
Same.


I assumed this was a game that has lots of variety. That, or I was thinking slight steampunk.
MAR GUNS!
Scatter shot.
A gun that fires multiple shots at once, but has reduced accuracy. slightly slow reload.
Shotgun.
A more powerful scatter shot.
Handheld Cannon.
Heavy, slow, but extremely powerful.
Is it possible for alignment exclusive weapons? Like, Evil has less access to healing weapons, but has more powerful weapons. Good however, has more blessed and healing items.
I was also thinking of having different types of things that a sword/bullet can be made of.
Good; same.


Iron.
Weak, yet cheap metal.
Steel.
Stronger than iron, but more expensive and makes heavier swords.
Diamond/Blessed/Special
Strongest (not to mention most expensive) of all types. Blessed and some Specials have a bonus to undead/demons.
Always good. Wooden and weak metals are good such as bronze or rusty iron. We could also take advatage of the types of steel, such as the stong but not too well made European, the weaker but folded like crazy Japanese, and the Middle Eastern Damascus, etc. possibly.


With regard to the setting. I was kind of keen on the idea of having civilization fade away as we enter the desert. With domestic violence and passion murders being more common as we approach the border.
As for guns, I think that the farther we head into the frontier, the more common they are since people don't have time to mess around with elegant movements, but short knives and scimitars should be pretty common among the numerous bandits. Maybe the more civilized folk think less of the frontiersmen for this?

Also, the taunts are good. Expect for the Chaotic ones, they're kind of obvious. Think more of the Lawful kind, and when you're done think of (slightly) more Robin Hoodian slogans (think witty, sarcastic but still very much zealoty)

I still believe that we should have numerous moral compasses. I hate it when games give you only the Good-Evil choice, it kills all depth and philosophy the game may have and boils it down to choosing between being Armed Jesus and a genocidial demon. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to play a demon, but maybe we should try to be more than the herd. Anyway, that's just what I think.
This sounds good minus the demon stuff.

In the meantime, i would suggest looking toward the Vote-up a Campaign Setting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96183) as to specific points to address in the world itself.

This it what it looks like to me so far:
Genre: Appears to be western (cowboys?) and medieval (Japan, Europe, both, or more?)

Class System: Does the game have classes? How do they work?

Gameplay Mechanics: Action RPG, I am assuming KotOR or Kingdom Heart? Fable? MMORPGS? Something else? Something completely new and different?

Equipment: How does it work, where is it stored? Weapons, armor, magic, items? Artifacts?

Magic: Does it exist? How does it work? DnD, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, etc?

Magic Level: important to note. Is there even magic at all? If so, how common is it?

PC Races: Human only?

Human Percentage: Is the setting human-only, or more?

Primary Antagonists: No idea here.

Plot: How does it work? Is it important? I am assuming flow chat style. How easy is it for the player to control?

Geography: One of these? Focus on the two sides?
Single SuperContinent
Paired SuperContinents
Few Large Continents
Many Small Continents
Many Large Islands
Myriad Small Islands
Something Else

Primary Religion: One Single God?

Cosmology: Most likely one single plane. Unless each side counts separately.

Politics: One of these or something. Law-chaos based?
Many Large Nations
Myriad Small Nations
City-States
Mixed Large/Small Nations
Nomadic Cultures

Setting Title: ???

And a whole bunch of stuff about programming the game graphics, etc, that I am not so experienced in.

[alexeduardo]

Okay, Llama. Here goes.

Genre: I think it would be nice to truly mix both european and japanese cultures. Imagine that some sort of cultural missionaries arrived at both places and teached them of their world. In old westenrs, you kind of know it all came from monocle-and-top hat insutrial cities, but the whole thing seems kind of isolated. That's what I would personally like.

Class System: I would like for there to be no classes. I hope that you have heard of the SAGA edition of the Starwars tabletop game. In it, there are a few classes, but inside each class there are many possible classes that result from the many possible Skill configurations. I think that with enough Skills and Feats, we can very well work with only one Omniclass.

Gameplay: I mention KOTOR for the story, but maybe Fable 2 is more like what we're going for (mechanics-wise). We were kind of sold on the idea of the Gun Kata, which is the absurd yet awesome combination of swordfighting, kung fu, gun fu, and traditional shootouts.

Equipment: I was kind of hoping for a realistic item system in which objects are a physiscal thing that you carry around with you and not just a value that is sometimes True. I guess there would be plenty of Amulets and Idols to provide bonuses as well as medicinal herbs and potions that may or may not be a sham.

Magic and Magic Level: DO NOT SPEAK OF THE DEVIL.
no, it does not exist, and religion is kind of a more psychological weapon than anything.

Human Percentage: I guess this is a human-only setting. If you can call those frontier animals human, that is.

Primary Antagonists: the primary enemy of mankind would be humanity. Bandits, thieves, mercenary armies, robber barons, corrupt and secular priests, love, hate, overproud soldiers and corrupt Inquisitors. Oh, there should be an outlandish alien demon horde slowly eating the world while we fight ourselves, but that's a higher level threat.
(at least i think it should be)

Plot: Yes, very easy to control. Think of the story as multiple separate stories that can be connected b the player's actions. In the end, the game will analyze what stories happened and how it happened and choose the appropiate ending. We'll need a lot of endings. And yes, the game is plot-driven.

Geography: I'm thinking of one or two continents, maybe some Forbidden islands of dragonyears legend or sumthin'.

Religion: Well, characters will talk and revere two separate gods. I hope that the whole point of the story will be the fact that both rivalring gods are actually one (dying) entity.

Cosmology: No, I don't think our protagonist needs to go to hell to fight demons.

Politics: I was thinking of maybe a centralized Teocracy. maybe some puppet goverments that answer to the Holy Council or Holy Man or something.

Setting Title: you got me. we need one.

[Llama231]

Equipment: I was kind of hoping for a realistic item system in which objects are a physical thing that you carry around with you and not just a value that is sometimes True. I guess there would be plenty of Amulets and Idols to provide bonuses as well as medicinal herbs and potions that may or may not be a sham.

I like doing equipment, so unless anyone cares, I would like to do this specifically until July, when I will be on vacation for 3 weeks. Amulets and idols would not really provide a bonus if there is no magic, but I suppose that herbs would work.

Equipment

>Weapons

>>Swords
>>>1-Hand
>>>1 1/2 Hand/Kantanas
>>>2 Hand
>>>Fencing
>>>Specialized

>>Kinves/Daggers
>>>Knives
>>>Daggers

>>Polearms
>>>Spears
>>>Lances
>>>Javelins
>>>Polearms

>>Axes/Clubs/Maces/Hammers
>>>Hand Axes
>>>Heavy Axes
>>>Hammers
>>>Maces
>>>Clubs
>>>Flails

>>Composites
>>>Staves
>>>Thrown Weapons
>>>Nunchuku/3-Section Staff
>>>Chain

>>Unarmed Agumentation
>>>Gauntlets
>>>Cestus
>>>Claws
>>>Knuckes

>>Bows
>>>Bow/Arrow
>>>Crossbows

>>Guns
>>>Pistols/Revolvers
>>>Rifles/Snipers?
>>>Shotguns?
>>>Machine Guns?

>>Turret Weapons
>>>Cannons
>>>Canapults
>>>Ballistae
>>>Seige Engines
>>>Machine Gun?

>>Explosives (Possibly items.)
>>>Grenades
>>>Gunpowder
>>>Firecrackers

>Armor

>>Clothing
>>>Cloaks
>>>Robes
>>>Lots of other stuff.

>>Body Armor
>>>Plate
>>>Mail
>>>Leather
>>>Studded

>>Helms
>>Armgear (Possibly overlap with unarmed weapons.)
>>>Gauntlets
>>>Bracers

>>Shields
>>>Bucklers
>>>Light
>>>Heavy
>>>Tower

>>Footgear
>>>Boots
>>>Shoes

>Items

>>Healing
>>>Herbs
>>>Other random Junk
Not too sure on the items.

Stats for Equipment
Weapons: Hands, Weight/Speed, Value/Price?, Damage/Strength/Might, Durability/Ammunition, Range, Effects etc.
Armor: Defense/Damage Reduction, Weight/Speed, Effects, etc.
Items: Uses, Effect, etc.

[Llama231]

Here are my thoughts on the two sides of the world:

Most people on the wild west and medieval sides do not know about each other. On a generic map of both, the wild west is on the left, and the medieval is on the right. They are separated by crazily tall mountains, highly dangerous seas, and deadly deserts.

Idea Pic:

--N--
W--E
--S--

----------^^^Deadly^^^-------------------<North Pole
Wild------^^Arctic^^^^-----Medieval-------
-----------^^mountains^^------------------
West----~~~~~~~Highly~~~-Europe/Japan-
------------~~~~Stormy~~~~~~-----------
Side----~~~~~and Huge~~~~------Side----
---------------~~~~Ocean~~~~~----------
---------------.......Extremely......------------<Equator
----------------......Dry.........----------------
---------------......Desert......----------------
-----------------l---Wide and---l-------------
---------------l---Deep Canyon--l------------
----------------~~~Cold~~~~--------------
--------------~~~~Arctic~~~~-------------
---------------~~~~Ocean~~~~-----------<South Pole

possibly, there is another border on the other side of the planet too, assuming that the world is not flat.

Or something like this.

[alexeduardo]

Most people on the wild west and medieval sides do not know about each other. On a generic map of both, the wild west is on the left, and the medieval is on the right. They are separated by crazily tall mountains, highly dangerous seas, and deadly deserts.

Well...I was kind of assuming that the wil west was sort of the frontier of the japan-europe kingdom, and that the frontiersmen are the ones who are technologically backward. But the sidequest you pasted could work either way, and the spine of the story is adaptable. but I guess we should have some sort of debate over it.




possibly, there is another border on the other side of the planet too, assuming that the world is not flat.

if the world isn't flat then the peope in the south would fall, duh.

[Llama231]

Well...I was kind of assuming that the wild west was sort of the frontier of the Japan-Europe kingdom, and that the frontiersmen are the ones who are technologically backward. But the sidequest you pasted could work either way, and the spine of the story is adaptable. but I guess we should have some sort of debate over it.

How does this work exactly? I do not understand.




If the world isn't flat then the people in the south would fall, duh.
Obviously.

[alexeduardo]

How does this work exactly? I do not understand.


well, I guess that the civilized part would be pretty much like Europe, with the wild west being what it was: an unruly frontier with an increasily dispersed imitation of its homeland. I guess that the new Chaotic god would be kind of like the radical protestant parishes that flourished as the west was won. Of course, that's just my idea. I wonder if we could get a proper writer to tell us which option would be better.

[Llama231]

So then, how does the technology level work?

[alexeduardo]

So then, how does the technology level work?

Well, maybe the European side has gone soft and decided that what they had was enough. Maybe they have stayed for centuries on the same tech level, and maybe the frontiersmen, as they expand their territory, have been forced to innovate and are now more advanced in some aspects (faste4r farming, better handguns, lighter transports) but pathetically backward in others (no really amazing industry, weak and short-ranged cannons, no standing army). As for the tech level, I was hoping for something like the end of the middle ages, maybe a little steampunk.
There is a really good novel series by Isaac Asimov called Foundation, it is possibly my favorite story of all time. At one point in the story, centralized religion takes over technology, and only priests can use the mysterious new machines. In order to use said machines, other kingdoms are forced to let the priests enter and evangelize their people, or else they will fall behind their enemies that are letting the tech-missionaries in. Maybe we could have a system like that in which only a certein kind of priest can use civilized technological advancements.
Maybe a nationalist movement in the frontier has started a major heresy and kicked the missionaries out. Maybe that could be the event that kicks off the game. But those are just my random ideas.

EDIT: to address your edit.
Well, I guess it would be cool if the player got to choose from three or four different names, each of which has a different meaning. Of course, that would mean that we would have to record every line of dialog at least three times. Or we could have everyone call the protagonist "Holy Inquisitor" or "Young Apprentice", but that would feel cheap.
And I think the correct term is slidebars, since they would have a line that slides on them.

[R. Malcovitch]

3D single-player action rpg. I was thinking of a camera more or less like what KOTOR has, maybe a little less roamy for the big elaborate gun-kata battles (you've heard of Devil May Cry, I hope)

Well, I'd like there to be a Devil May Cry-like combat system, maybe even borrow something from (dare I say?) Ninja Gaiden. But I would also like there to be the possibility to play the game as some sort of Gears of War-esque shooter...I hope you know a damn good scripter or are prepared to shell out some serious cash for an industry standard engine, because NG/DMC fighting systems, while crazy awesome, are phenomenally difficult to create. [/QUOTE]

[Elder Wraith]

I may be able to help with some of the scripting, but I don't know anything about programming or art design. Sorry.

[Llama231]

Help Update: It appears that someone I know who can do computer syuff may be interested, but he would like to know what software that you are all planning to use.

[SilverSheriff]

If I remember correctly we were going to have a Mass Effect-esque dialog system.Don't know too much about this.

You would be shown some options of on-the-lines what you would say not exactly what you would say to the word, spelling and punctuation.

[Llama231]

Okay, now I am even more confused...


Edit: New idea

Going with the two sides of world idea, it could be that the church separated them both by saying that if people go to the other side it will be hell or something, and thus manage to keep the two sides separate through fear of religion. This could be easily supported by the geography and environment, and allow for the church to know about both sides. Unless they "forget' and only, say the very important people, know.

[alexeduardo]

Okay, now I am even more confused...

mabe this (http://grandtextauto.org/archives/MEdialogue1.png) can help?


Edit: New idea

Yay!


Going with the two sides of world idea, it could be that the church separated them both by saying that if people go to the other side it will be hell or something, and thus manage to keep the two sides separate through fear of religion. This could be easily supported by the geography and environment, and allow for the church to know about both sides. Unless they "forget' and only, say the very important people, know.

hmm...but that still poses the question of where exactly did the Wild Westians come from. Maybe they're some sort of ruined civilization, maybe the unfaithful sons of a vengeful god?

Up to now we have three possible settings:

Two radically different worlds separated by unpassable mountains (maybe a sidequest can be the passing of such mountains?)
One world, two cultures separated by the way they see God
Two radically different worlds, one of which is a Top Secret eclesiastical secret


I believe that the second option is better because it offers more depth and is slightly more realistic. Any counter-points?

[Llama231]

mabe this (http://grandtextauto.org/archives/MEdialogue1.png) can help?
Okey.



Yay!
^.^


hmm...but that still poses the question of where exactly did the Wild Westians come from. Maybe they're some sort of ruined civilization, maybe the unfaithful sons of a vengeful god?

Up to now we have three possible settings:

Two radically different worlds separated by unpassable mountains (maybe a sidequest can be the passing of such mountains?)
One world, two cultures separated by the way they see God
Two radically different worlds, one of which is a Top Secret eclesiastical secret


I believe that the second option is better because it offers more depth and is slightly more realistic. Any counter-points?


I think that there should be some geographical separation, and viwing the other side as hell or something, and that this could be supported by the two cultures and how they view each other, or vice vera. Still, I like the idea of the sides not knowing about each other.


Also, the full outline for the sidequest is done here (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/side-quest-bandits-of-the-abaddon-t7.html?sid=6332cf8b1d91fd3db68c7146b0a53a6c).
However, I am still al ittle fuzzy on how statistics should be listed, and I will look up the dialogue system some more.


Edit: I looked up the dialogue, and while it seems a bit crazy, i might be able to pull it off, but it will take a LONG TIME, so in the meantime, I will outline the dialogue ideas, and finish everything else.

My idea for needed NPC data: I am assuming that we will be doing a generic RPG style system, so here goes.
Level/Power: How strong or dangerous is the NPC? Is equipment or levels more important?
Hit Points: I would suggest staying on the smaller range as not to gert out of hand. 100 HP is a lot.
Defense/Armor Class/Dodge/Block: How hard is it to hurt the enemy? Is it all or nothing like armor class in DnD, or is it like most video games were damage is reduced by defense? Id there separation in dodge and block? I would suggest, as this is an action RPG, that dodge may be used as to how fast the enemy moves, and block is defense, and reduces the amount of damage that they take is you manage to hit them. And I am assuming that with no magic, we will not have to worry about resistance and willpower, etc.
Alignment/Attitude: Chaotic-Lawful, Good-Evil. Basically, how will the enemy act if they notice the player. Maybe some sort of relationship point system or something. This could be changed somehow, similarly to the player's good-evil, law-chaos rate, and/or be closely related.
Strength, Might, Power, Speed: I would assume that the likeliness of hitting the player would be similarly based on speed, so that is simple. I think that an NPC should have 1 weapon that they use, and have a stat of how powerful it is, and have the damage reduced by the player's armor/defense if they get hit. Maybe certain NPCs can switch between weapons?
Equipment: What do they have, what is able to be taken by the player? And so on.
A.I.: I have no idea for this to work, but it would be cool if smarter NPCs fought smarter than dumb ones. This could possibly overlap with alignment.

[alexeduardo]

^.^

Indeed.



I think that there should be some geographical separation, and viwing the other side as hell or something, and that this could be supported by the two cultures and how they view each other, or vice vera. Still, I like the idea of the sides not knowing about each other.


Well, the Wild West has to come from somewhere. I propoese that, just like in every expansionist empire in history, the rugged frontiersmen hate and despise the way of life of the pampered civilized elite. To me, the (possible) war between the innovative and Chaotic Wild West and the dogmatic and Lawful civilization makes philosophical sense. And if it doesn't, at least it would look cool.

[Llama231]

First, on topic.

Well, the Wild West has to come from somewhere. I propoese that, just like in every expansionist empire in history, the rugged frontiersmen hate and despise the way of life of the pampered civilized elite. To me, the (possible) war between the innovative and Chaotic Wild West and the dogmatic and Lawful civilization makes philosophical sense. And if it doesn't, at least it would look cool. This sounds good, and I could fit this into my sidequest somehow, with this particular outpost not knowing about the more civilized world.


******************************

I would like to use this post to keep track of who is interested in the project, and what they would like to do to help.

alexeduardo
Seems to be the manager of the process, and is in charge pretty much the whole thing. Most concepts and ideas.

Black_Pants_Guy
Dialogue specialist?

Geno9999
Concepts, some art, and possibly more.

Blayze
Writing lots of fluff.

Kara Kuro
Traditional medium concept art/design.

LurkerInPlayground
Concepts?

Llama231
Crunch, lists, statistics, data, a bit of dialogue, real world and in-game history/explanations, combining non-programmed stuff together, and providing ideas and concepts for artists. Also attempting to find out what everyone else is willing to contribute. So pretty much anything that does not involve drawing or programming.

R. Malcovitch
Level design.

Elder Wraith
Possibly scripting.

Lufia
Dialogue, level/puzzle design, and debug programming.

RS14
level design, research historical settings, and (mostly C++) programming.

Immortal
write history/background, map/weapon design, draw a bit, reference other games, and historical research.

Pikabob
Possibly programming and graphics design, but really needs to know what program will be used.

TheDarkOne
So far, sane advice.

13 CBS
Writing.

Rutskarn
Writing.

Xondoure
Writing.

Seraph
Writing.

Coidzor
Writing.

An Enemy Spy
Writing.

kopaka
Writing.

Dallas-Dakota
Cartography(Maps), maybe some other art, and possibly writing.

[alexeduardo]

Thanks, llama, but I'm really not as competent as you make me out to be.

Now, on topic. Your system for NPC statting looks good for now. also, maybe there should be a willpower stat to counter intimidation.

[Llama231]

Thanks, llama, but I'm really not as competent as you make me out to be.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?



Now, on topic. Your system for NPC statting looks good for now. also, maybe there should be a willpower stat to counter intimidation.

Thanks! I will get on with making a system to stat NPCs, etc. soonish, probably tomorrow.

[alexeduardo]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?


incompetence? gullibulnessility?

Also, what do you think should be the main focus of the story? I propose that it happens at or shortly after the outbreak of the hopeless Frontier revolution, with the protagonist trying to decide where his loyalties lie and then

BAM!

Demons and witches all over the place! The foolish legends were real! the stupìd rituals had a purpose! The scriptures are not completely made up after all!

wow, that's lame. we need a writer

[TheDarkOne]

..I hope you know a damn good scripter or are prepared to shell out some serious cash for an industry standard engine, because NG/DMC fighting systems, while crazy awesome, are phenomenally difficult to create.

The word you're looking for is programmer, not scripter, otherwise I agree completely. Actually there will probably be a need for several programmers, without them, any video game is just bunch of ideas and artwork.

What's being disused in this thread seems to be a game the same size, refinement and quality as a professionally developed game. Consider that games like this take a large team of generally highly experienced people years to make. It's not impossible to make a good game in your spare time, you just really need to think about the scope of what you're doing.

What I suggest is, before you get carried away with dreaming about all the cool ideas, is you take a look at the credit lists for a few other amateur games/mods, and if possible ask the developers how much time went into the project. Comparing what your learn from this exercise, with the skill set of your team, will give you a good idea of the kind of final product you could expect to achieve. This way you can start thinking about what type of game you'd like to make, within some idea of the realistic restrictions you're likely to face. (or it gives you some idea of what kind of skills the people you recruit are going to need)

A lot of projects like this die well before they produce any actual results beyond some ideas, and maybe a bit of concept art or dialog. I think probably a big reason for this is a lot of people's ideas go way, way beyond what they're capable of creating with their time and skill set. If you can set realistic goals, and have skilled people willing to commit to these goals, then you can create a good game.

[Llama231]

incompetence? gullibulnessility?
Whatever works.


Also, what do you think should be the main focus of the story? I propose that it happens at or shortly after the outbreak of the hopeless Frontier revolution, with the protagonist trying to decide where his loyalties lie and then
Sounds good. maybe the protagonist is a disciple in the church?


BAM!
Ow.


Demons and witches all over the place! The foolish legends were real! the stupìd rituals had a purpose! The scriptures are not completely made up after all!
O.O

I think that we should avoid magic, etc. and focus on real-world-like issues.

The church keeps the lawful parts together through religion and leadership with a puppet ruler t the head of a civilization. Maybe there are multiple civilizations? Maybe they are all controlled by one church secretly?

Meanwhile, the rebels who do not believe that all of the stories are true may be getting restless, with the amount of free wilderness decreasing (like Pirates of the Caribbean sort of).

The actual plotline for the story would be completely based on what the player does, and in-character reactions by NPCs to what it does.

For example, the PC could try to organize the inherently chotic rebels together to take down the lawful order of the civilization(s), or the player could support the church trying to unify the the world in law. Or maybe just simply exploring the world. Or randomly killing everything. Or trying to light every bush on fire. And so on.

Still, a lack of overarching plotline could pose a problem for people who like to have a purpose. Maybe the "lawful good" church has a plan for the player to help them, and if the player wants to , they could simply allow themselves to be railroaded into whatever this plan is, or do whatever. If the PC does not wish do do this, they could run off into the chaotic wilderness and do something else. Etc.

Lastly, any good RPG needs a final boss and a good ending. The first thing that comes to mind is the way KotOR and strangely enough Shadow the Hedgehog worked, with certain final battles, etc. or whatever bbased on the player's actions.


wow, that's lame. we need a writer
That would always help.



The word you're looking for is programmer, not scripter, otherwise I agree completely. Actually there will probably be a need for several programmers, without them, any video game is just bunch of ideas and artwork.
Agreed. :smallamused:



What's being disused in this thread seems to be a game the same size, refinement and quality as a professionally developed game. Consider that games like this take a large team of generally highly experienced people years to make. It's not impossible to make a good game in your spare time, you just really need to think about the scope of what you're doing.

What I suggest is, before you get carried away with dreaming about all the cool ideas, is you take a look at the credit lists for a few other amateur games/mods, and if possible ask the developers how much time went into the project. Comparing what your learn from this exercise, with the skill set of your team, will give you a good idea of the kind of final product you could expect to achieve. This way you can start thinking about what type of game you'd like to make, within some idea of the realistic restrictions you're likely to face. (or it gives you some idea of what kind of skills the people you recruit are going to need)

A lot of projects like this die well before they produce any actual results beyond some ideas, and maybe a bit of concept art or dialog. I think probably a big reason for this is a lot of people's ideas go way, way beyond what they're capable of creating with their time and skill set. If you can set realistic goals, and have skilled people willing to commit to these goals, then you can create a good game.

First of all, I can say that I have a bit of experience in this sort of thing. Often, I see some people get an idea to make a game, so I give my input and attempt to bring it all together, but then it all fall apart when people loose interest and the real world starts to attack. Still, this game project is one of the larger ones that i have seen recently, and it may pose a possibility toward success. So basically, I agree with you about what we need, and the unlikeliness that it will be completed. Still, if we all work together, and stay on track, this could very well come to be.


In other new, I have updated the equipment list (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/post72.html?sid=66a5ddd8594c061ff1fc4b8777438dd3#p 72) at the other forum, and ideas and contributions are much appreciated.


Edit: NPC statistics over here (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/the-npc-list-t12.html?sid=66a5ddd8594c061ff1fc4b8777438dd3).

[Trazoi]

I'm afraid I can't help directly (way too many projects of my own), but I'd like to support TheDarkOne's advice. I think you're getting a bit sidetracked on the fiddly details. That's fine if your goal is to just design an interesting game, but if you actually want to make a game you'll need to focus on what is practical and what you can actually achieve.

I have a bit of experience in programming games, and my current take on your project is that it's extremely ambitious. A 3D action RPG of a moderate scope will take an experienced team of about two dozen at least two years to complete. Unless you're planning a mod, I don't think that's currently within the capabilities of your team. At a minimum, you'll need a skilled programmer to coordinate development on a 3D game, and you'll need a skilled animator for anything involving realistic humanoid figures in action. If your game is epic in scope, you'll need much, much more.

Like TheDarkOne, I also recommend you start thinking about how long you want to spend on the game and what resources you have available. It's not infeasible to make a good game with just a handful of people, but you really do need to work with what you have. You're going to have to make sacrifices and design to what's practical, so figure out what are the core elements you want to keep and work around them. Maybe you can meet all your objectives with a mod or with RPG Maker, or maybe you can use static 2D images for a turn based strategy game (which is a lot easier on the art budget!).

It's also highly likely that the more interested members of your team will need to be either programmers or artists, as for these kinds of projects that's the bulk of work that need to be done. If you're interested in learning game programming skills, there's GameDev.net (http://www.gamedev.net) which is generally good for beginners and hobbyists (I post a bit over there too). It's not quite as useful for artists over there, however.

Be prepared to be in for the long haul, and best of luck! :smallwink:

[Blayze]

Maybe they are all controlled by one church secretly?

I'm loathe to make the church the bad guys -- or at the very least, the Big Bad -- since it's what happens in every fantasy story ever.


That would always help.

Just give me a subject and some basic details on what you want and I'll get right on it.

[Llama231]

I'm afraid I can't help directly (way too many projects of my own), :smallfrown:

but I'd like to support TheDarkOne's advice. I think you're getting a bit sidetracked on the fiddly details. That's fine if your goal is to just design an interesting game, but if you actually want to make a game you'll need to focus on what is practical and what you can actually achieve.
This is too true.


I have a bit of experience in programming games, and my current take on your project is that it's extremely ambitious. A 3D action RPG of a moderate scope will take an experienced team of about two dozen at least two years to complete. Unless you're planning a mod, I don't think that's currently within the capabilities of your team. At a minimum, you'll need a skilled programmer to coordinate development on a 3D game, and you'll need a skilled animator for anything involving realistic humanoid figures in action. If your game is epic in scope, you'll need much, much more.


Maybe we could try making a little part of it first, and then work outward?
[QUOTE]
Like TheDarkOne, I also recommend you start thinking about how long you want to spend on the game and what resources you have available. It's not infeasible to make a good game with just a handful of people, but you really do need to work with what you have. You're going to have to make sacrifices and design to what's practical, so figure out what are the core elements you want to keep and work around them. Maybe you can meet all your objectives with a mod or with RPG Maker, or maybe you can use static 2D images for a turn based strategy game (which is a lot easier on the art budget!).
I will be willing to work on it until it is done, something else more important comes up and makes it so that I cannot, or everybody else gives up. We could try with a bit of simple 2D/turn-based stuff, and then go 3D/action as we get better.


It's also highly likely that the more interested members of your team will need to be either programmers or artists, as for these kinds of projects that's the bulk of work that need to be done. If you're interested in learning game programming skills, there's GameDev.net (http://www.gamedev.net) which is generally good for beginners and hobbyists (I post a bit over there too). It's not quite as useful for artists over there, however.
This sounds good.



Be prepared to be in for the long haul, and best of luck! :smallwink:
Thanks! :smallbiggrin:


I'm loathe to make the church the bad guys -- or at the very least, the Big Bad -- since it's what happens in every fantasy story ever.
They would only be the bad guys if you work against the. Technically, they are lawful good, so the only ways to oppose them would be chaotic rebellion, or evil stuff.


Just give me a subject and some basic details on what you want and I'll get right on it.
Well, unless someone else has something for you to do, we need to know what you like to do, and are good at. It would be most useful for you to start working on some 3D (or maybe 2D) models, and other such hard stuff, but if that is too much, I would appreciate help on the NPC list.

Also, should I post my lists, etc. over here, as more people seem to be here than the other forum?

[alexeduardo]

They would only be the bad guys if you work against the. Technically, they are lawful good, so the only ways to oppose them would be chaotic rebellion, or evil stuff.



Exactly. To me, a truly good story should have two rivalring factions that are both right.
Of course, we'll need to make the Church really oppressing and the Rebels really chaotic (they're practically bandits, for pete's sake) if we want most players to care.
Sure, we can stay away from magic. But in that case we would need two or three really powerful story goals for the player to choose from, that's whena a writer comes in handy. I think that the sole advantage the
Playground could offer is that it's swarming with Dungeon Masters, it shouldn't be hard to find someone up to the job of crafting an interesting campaign in our setting.


I'm loathe to make the church the bad guys -- or at the very least, the Big Bad -- since it's what happens in every fantasy story ever.

it all the depends on your point of view.


work within some idea of the realistic restrictions you're likely to face.

There are no defeats in a worthy cause, only postponed victories. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfHnzYEHAow)

And yes, if you're interested please jump over (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/index.php)to the new forum.

[Llama231]

So, ...

Should I post any of the stuff over here?

[Blayze]

Well, unless someone else has something for you to do, we need to know what you like to do, and are good at.

Er... I meant for writing subjects -- as in, characters, locations, histories, events, etc... :P That's all I can really do. Anything programming-y is beyond me, I'm afraid -- I can barely handle IF statements.

[alexeduardo]

Er... I meant for writing subjects --

How convenient. We need a plot. Or, rather, a number of plots. Any ideas?

[Llama231]

How convenient. We need a plot. Or, rather, a number of plots. Any ideas?

Quoted for the truth.

Should it be more character, setting, or event based primarily?

[alexeduardo]

Quoted for the truth.

Should it be more character, setting, or event based primarily?

Well, the best way to introduce a setting is for the characters to live in it, and the best way to describe an event is for it to happen to your characters. So, the more characters and the less monologues you can put, the better.

[Llama231]

So...

Wold building.

Yeah.


Edit: Updated post of people involved.

[Blayze]

How convenient. We need a plot. Or, rather, a number of plots. Any ideas?

As in subplots, self-contained (Or otherwise minor) quests/missions or main plots? Either way, I'll see what I can cook up at work tomorrow. Er... today.

[Llama231]

I think that main plot is the most important right now.

[alexeduardo]

As in subplots, self-contained (Or otherwise minor) quests/missions or main plots? Either way, I'll see what I can cook up at work tomorrow. Er... today.

Whatever you can help with is fine.

UPDATE: through magical means other than these forums, Black Pant's and I have gotten the following ideas:


The beggining of the game should be very much like the one from Mass Effect
There are no computers in our world
therefore, the personality and background check should be done by a scribe
As in, someone who can write
Also, maybe there should be an Origin Story system, like in Mass Efect or DA:O
personality and background choices should scar and shape the protagonist's face



Opinate!

[Blayze]

Started typing at work. This is what my brain produced.


Arrested four years ago for the drunken murder of a Keeper of the Peace, disgraced former Inquisitor <CHARNAME> is offered a full pardon in exchange for permanent employment in the service of the Grand and Glorious Church of Our Holy Empire -- commonly referred to by the Rebel Alliance by a nickname that shall never be mentioned in polite company.

<CHARNAME>'s first mission is the infiltration of a newly-discovered cult within the Empire, one that is apparently sympathetic to the Rebel cause. <S/HE> was chosen for this mission because there was literally nobody else available, due to the recent escalation of hostilities between the Empire and the Rebels to open warfare on all fronts.

Investigating the cult's activities and gaining the trust of several low and mid-ranking members by assisting them with a variety of tasks and activities -- and in the process, learning more about the cult, their beliefs and political views -- <CHARNAME> eventually discovered evidence of communication between the cult leader and an unidentified person assumed to be a high-ranking officer in the Rebel army that the cult's leader forgot to burn.

The discovery of the letter and its contents only served to further confirm <CHARNAME>'s suspicions that the cult was merely a proxy by which the rebels could act, instead of a just a group of like-minded -- if heretical -- individuals who sympathised with their plight.

I get the feeling this would be the first "act" of the game, but somewhat larger than a mere tutorial or prologue. I suppose the discovery of the letter would spark the first "true" choice in the game -- namely <CHARNAME>, troubled by the fact that <S/HE> has all but befriended the cultists and beginning to question the Empire's anti-Rebel doctrines -- whether to take the letter to <HIS/HER> superiors as evidence against the Rebels and the cult or to seek out the mystery person who wrote the letter to begin with.

Edit:


Opinate!

When you say "like Mass Effect", how exactly do you mean? Also, what do you think of what I just posted?

[alexeduardo]

That was really nice, Blayze. Tell us more about this third cult of yours.

In Mass Effect, you get to choose where you came from and why you're famous. The NPCs react accordingly.

[SilverSheriff]

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/2/6/24/black_pants_guy/f_roykhan1856m_c080383.jpg
I was thinking we could base the main character (Male) on Roy Sætre Khantatat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Khan) from Kamelot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamelot). thoughts?
Alexeduardo agrees that Roy has a certain rough look that could go well for the Protagonist.

[Llama231]

The beginning of the game should be very much like the one from Mass Effect
*off to google*


There are no computers in our world
Agreed. Why would there be?


therefore, the personality and background check should be done by a scribe
As in, someone who can write
Okey.


Also, maybe there should be an Origin Story system, like in Mass Efect or DA:O
DA?


personality and background choices should scar and shape the protagonist's face
Like KotOR?



*clip*
Sound good and intriguing.


[pic]
I was thinking we could base the main character (Male) on Roy Sætre Khantatat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Khan) from Kamelot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamelot). thoughts?
Alexeduardo agrees that Roy has a certain rough look that could go well for the Protagonist.

I think that it could work, but we really need to find someone who could actually make something like this.

[alexeduardo]

Well, Llama. In the very beggining of Mass Effect, you are asked by a computer system or something to log in, there is an error and you have to put in your profile by hand.
DA:O = dragon age: origins

[R. Malcovitch]

Since there's an obvious parallel to the Holy Roman Empire, let's have it be starting to fall apart. They're loosing control of fringe territories, facing constant insurgencies, and are so desperate to keep their core holdings that they've got secret police and inquisitors roaming the area looking for heretics. Not exactly dystopian, but there should be an air of desperation. Maybe even throw in something like the Huns, and invading force from a previously unknown land (maybe another continent) who are indiscriminately tearing sh*t up. Maybe have them start in the opposing area at first, then later in the game show up at the first place's doorstep.

Yes I'm just parroting history here but right now this game's story seems to be mimicking Morrowind/Oblivion to a plagiaristic degree.

[SilverSheriff]

Yes I'm just parroting history here but right now this game's story seems to be mimicking Morrowind/Oblivion to a plagiaristic degree.

care to digress what you mean? Its hardly plagerism thank you very much; we haven't even started chipping at the tip of the iceburg yet.

[Blayze]

Tell us more about this third cult of yours.

The way I see it, the Rebels are going to try to influence Empire society however they can. Since Empire society is more than likely going to be directly opposed to the Rebels in all possible forms, a bit of deceit is required -- for instance, recruit people into a supposedly random cult and then SURPRISE! The God you've been worshipping all this time is ACTUALLY our God! Looks like you're one of us now.

The cult -- or at least, the highest-ranking cultists -- would probably just be a single Rebel cell, methinks.


Yes I'm just parroting history here but right now this game's story seems to be mimicking Morrowind/Oblivion to a plagiaristic degree.

Do you mean what I posted? I've never played Morrowind, and only played Oblivion until I got out of the prison. I vaguely remember something about demons and Captain Picard waffling on as if I was the best thing since sliced bread, though...

[alexeduardo]

no, Malcovitch, we got rid of the demons. Also, the church is more a technoteological state now.

So, Blayze, the cultists would be like a converting cell?
Also, what do you think of the face black pant's proposed?

[Llama231]

Huh, the forum seems to be down...

[SilverSheriff]

works fine with me.

[Hannes]

Cowboy + guns + the word medieval brings a certain series to my mind...

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed him...

[TFT]

I remember this game... because I came up with the idea of a split world(Good times, I thought we were gonna be close to a flame war with that one...) But yea, I may or may not be willing to help, pending if I actually have any ideas...

[Enlong]

I remember this project.

If I remember correctly, one of the possible fighting styles was going to be something like Gun Kata.

And there was something about the different personalities of God being split or something or maybe we scrapped that element I dunno.

[Llama231]

Well, I will be gone soon, so when I get back, if this topic is dead, I may make a new one, or something.

[Llama231]

I made a to-do (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/the-to-do-list-t16.html?sid=3ae09abff34835708ea1e622f3ae8819) list on the other forum.

[imp_fireball]

I have an idea for an online game but the sheer investment in hardware and labour would be in the millions.

So yah...

In a nutshell: It's an FPS with some minor MMORPG elements (mainly just character progression, not questing or grinding). The setting is sci-fi where the graphics are immense, the cities are massive and capitivating and the species as distinctive as the beach from the ocean.

As humans, players can start crime syndicates, usurp corporations or rebel factions (or start one from scratch), or do pretty much everything. As 'the bugs', players see action much more quickly where play focuses mostly around the necessity of destruction and expropriation to survive - also bio-monstrosities.

As 'the psychic warriors' players focus mainly on character progression but also partake largely in many of the human elements. The psychics use magic too while the humans always must depend on weapons, tactics and less advanced (but adaptable) technology.

For humans, players have the most fun buddying up (although they can mission alone). For psychics, it's often to do with missioning and seeking 'greater power'. For bugs, players are already buddied up at the beginning in a swarm and their goal is to essentially devour everything.

The entire mishmash takes place on one massive planet. Space combat/exploration/fleet control appears in expansions. It's all incredibly realistic and immersive.

Originally, me and some forum buddies on warboards.org were just throwing out ideas for a world of starcraft mmorpgfps - of course, there's copyright limits to do with that and it might be more interesting to make something new (albeit an offshoot of every scifi/fantasy already out there).

[Blayze]

no, Malcovitch, we got rid of the demons. Also, the church is more a technoteological state now.

So, Blayze, the cultists would be like a converting cell?
Also, what do you think of the face black pant's proposed?

Pretty much. Even if they didn't convert anyone knowingly to their side, their actions would still keep the Church on its toes. Not sure abotu the face, though.

[Llama231]

I am back, lets get this thing back up and running. :smallamused:

[SilverSheriff]

Indeed. Filler Text

[SharpWolf]

Alright, I'll third TheDarkOne's advice and give some of my own too.

I'm a professional programmer, and I'll say this: making a whole game, let alone a good one, is *hard*. It's lots and lots and lots of work. You need to know what kind of game it will be and what will be the tools you will use as soon as possible in the project, because the technical details will influence a lot of things -- like how the story will be told, for example, but also what features will be in the game. You cannot determine that without knowing the capabilities of your tools.

So, I would suggest that, before you get too carried by your ideas, you should take some time to think about the technical details. This way, you'll be able to focus your time and energies on the things that really matter. Also, I would suggest you forget about 3D -- let alone think about making your own engine from scratch. 2D is already pretty hard. 3D is much, much worse. Stick to 2D, and ideally with a game-making tool of some sort. If this project really takes off, you'll be able to think about something bigger when you know what that entails exactly.

I'm afraid you won't be able to count on me too much (I might have a few spare hours here and there, but I do have my own projects), but I'm not here to discourage you either. In fact, I very much like your ideas, and would like to see this project get somewhere.

So, to encourage to get things moving (and, maybe, suggest a particular tool), I have downloaded RPGMaker VX and spent a few hours last night messing with it, and have come up with a neat little demo (very, *very* small demo -- you can't play the game, it's just an introduction scene to give you a very basic idea of what the game could look and feel like with this program). You can download it here (http://download.vadventurers.com/Zen_Guilt_Ridden.exe).

I've looked around the other forum, took the dialog Black_Pants_Guy had written in this post (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/dialog-for-bpgsdfhl-a-t14.html) and, well, see for yourself.

Oh yeah, and I've given a (maybe temporary) name to the game: Zen - Guilt Ridden. For some reason, when I browsed the post about the alignment system I thought it would make a pretty good name.

Have fun!

[Lord Loss]

Story-wise, charcter-wise, and flavor wise, I'm in. I can't program stuff, though. But, for world design, mechanical aspects (okay, this attack is for DPS, it deals 25-hit and has a 45% chance of criticals if the charcter has taken the Holy Essensce build. This attack is known as Channel Karma. It has a 3-second recharge. Yeah, that,s me.

[Llama231]

Well, I do not have a problem with doing 2D instead, but we need to all agree on it.

Could you make a non-download-needing thing to view? I have security issues.

[Oslecamo]

If done well, 2D can be as fun as 3D, and it spares a LOT of worck.

Also, if the game gets enough sucess, you can always make a 3D version later once you have hordes of fanboys willing to worck for you.

So I fully suport doing this in 2D.

[Geno9999]

A 2D game does sound nice to me, since I grew up with the SNES.
Vote 2D.

[SharpWolf]

Here are a few screenshots for those of you who can't download the demo. It's nothing extraordinary but, trust me, you don't need to be a programmer to create a really good game with RPGMaker. Some scripting skills might help, but that's something that can be learned relatively easily, compared to starting from scratch.

http://download.vadventurers.com/ZGR_screen1.jpg
http://download.vadventurers.com/ZGR_screen2.jpg
http://download.vadventurers.com/ZGR_screen3.jpg

...I gotta say it's not the same thing without the music. :smallfrown:

And yes, the SNES rocked.

[SilverSheriff]

I like the Idea of putting it into RPG maker, I used to be quite good with it.
I'd design whole levels and then I'd send it off to my friend so he could have a look and maybe add the scripting in and I'd never see it again.:smallfrown:

the only problem I see is getting the whole Hack'n'slash and shooter through as it runs on the old Final Fantasy method.


EDIT: I just got a copy of RPG Maker VX and I'm going to check it out.

[Llama231]

I like the looks of the screenshots. One problem though, I kind of think that between the name and dialogue, it seems a bit too sulky or something.

Also, I think that it IS possible to do an action-RPG in 2D. I was thinking of how LoZ works might be good with the overhead view. So kind of like LoZ-FF.

[Gourtox]

Idea here. The two "nations" should be seperated by a small, but dangerous desert. The towns and cities should become smaller and more scarce as they get closer to the desert and should become bigger and closeer together as you get farther away. I believe this hould happen on both sides of the desert.

Also question, I looked at RPGMaker and they didn't list a price, but they had a get license thing. The license showed to be $60. Now is the actual program free or what? Do you even have to have license?

[SilverSheriff]

ok, first flaw found with RPG Maker VX: You can only have 5 Tilesets total.:smallannoyed: which is a bit of a bummer leaving us with an option: Wild Western or European setting, not both.:smallfrown:

[Blayze]

Nice one, Wolf. This actually makes things easier in my mind, since I can attempt to write stuff around the finished product's limitations rather than going crazy and having said limitations bring it all crashing down.

I just hope there's a way around the "one-line NPCs" problem. Hmm... Is there a way to allow branching conversations in RPG Maker?

[SilverSheriff]

Tonnes. [Filler text]

[SharpWolf]

I like the looks of the screenshots. One problem though, I kind of think that between the name and dialogue, it seems a bit too sulky or something.

Yeah, well, I did this more as a proof of concept and to help get things started, so I really don't mind if you want to change some things. I just took whatever I could from the other forum so it didn't take too much time to do.


Also, I think that it IS possible to do an action-RPG in 2D. I was thinking of how LoZ works might be good with the overhead view. So kind of like LoZ-FF.

One does not need 3D to make a good action-RPG. I'm not sure on how to make one with RPGMaker, though, but it is possible to modify just about everything in a RPGMaker game using the Ruby scripting options. It's more work, of course, but it's still much faster than starting from scratch.


Also question, I looked at RPGMaker and they didn't list a price, but they had a get license thing. The license showed to be $60. Now is the actual program free or what? Do you even have to have license?

You can download the full program as a 30-days trial, then buy the license to get rid of the time limit.


ok, first flaw found with RPG Maker VX: You can only have 5 Tilesets total. which is a bit of a bummer leaving us with an option: Wild Western or European setting, not both.

Yeah, that bothered me too, but it seems there are workarounds for it, using the Ruby scripting system. Take a look at this (http://www.rmxp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48260.msg541609) (I googled for "rpg maker vx multiple tilesets"). I don't have time to check it out right now, but I'll search some more when I can.


I just hope there's a way around the "one-line NPCs" problem. Hmm... Is there a way to allow branching conversations in RPG Maker?

Oh yes, there are. Back in RPGMaker 2003, I used to make games with dialog more complex than in most professional games. You could ask people for information (about various subjects, depending on the person you were talking to and what was relevant at the time), chat with them to get random bits of information or funny lines (each person had at least five different lines), and much, much more. I even gave them schedules, which you could influence depending on your actions.

So, no worries to have there.

[Llama231]

Did anyone know what happened to alexeduardo?

Also, @ BPG, you need to post in the debating competition.

O.K, back on topic. It seems that 2D is a viable thing to do, so unless anyone protests, I will assume that we are doing 2D. Now, if we want this project to work out, we need to know ho is actually going to stick with it and do anything. If you plan to remain with the project, and actually contribute to it, I would like you to please post so, and what you WANT to do. For most of you, I already know what you are able to do, but not how willing you are. I would suggest looking at the to-do list on the other forum (and pretty much everything else there too), and figuring out what you would like to work on. I will edit the list shortly after posting this to accommodate 2D as opposed to 3D. If you are not serious about this project, and not in for doing a ton of work, please say so, but that does not mean that we will exclude you. Any help is help, and the more that we can get, the better. It seems that the project may actually work out by what you have all been saying, so the outlook is still quite good. Still, while I do not expect this to get anywhere due to my usual negative expectations, that does not mean that it will not.

Focusing more specifically on certain things, we need to increase the activity at the other forum, which, despite being an entire FORUM, get less posts per day than this thread itself.

Now, to state what I am willing to do. I will do my best to hold this thing together, whatever that may entail, and stay with it all until I am forced not to by outside issues, hopefully unlikely. I will help with the brainstorming of ideas, and collection of it all. I will attempt to follow the plotline and bring the writing together into a coherent story, adding my input where possible. I will help with the dialogue to a certain extent, but cannot be relied on to do it myself. I will attempt to organize together names for everything, and find out what everyone likes best. I will make as many lists as possible, as that is what I like best. I will support level design similarly to plot. I will help think up formulas to apply, but may not be able to make too good ones. I will only give my input on visual ideas, not do them myself. Lastly, I will see what I can do about the technical stuff, but I will unlikely be useful for much anything, due to my limited knowledge and experience in it. So, as you may have noticed, i have not been very useful in the recent discussions on the technical issues.

Next up is the problem with the license. While it may be possible to get a free one, like many other things in this project for it to work, money will need to be spent. I HIGHLY DO NOT recommend anyone spending money on anything just yet unless they really want to. Remember, there is NO proof that this project will follow through, and the complete game be made, let alone produced. We are still thinking small. So unless someone is REALLY REALLY serious about this project, or can get around the whole money thing, we should try to work around it as much as possible, and only spend when it is certain that the project will work out, and everyone's roles are set.

So if you are serious, please say so, and if you are not, we could still use your help.

If my unprofessional knowledge has stated something stupid or incorrect, or is missing something important, please let me know.

[Llama231]

No one?

[Llama231]

Buuuummmmmmmmmmpp.

[Azukar]

Wee! This post might be redundant given the rest of the thread, but my best friend in high school and I made the most of an RPG together, back in the day. We lost most of the material we had generated, but I've since redeveloped most of it and now have the makings of what I'd like to think is a very solid game!


At the moment I'm working on the story and a few of the gameplay mechanics - I'll check in this thread again but if anyone that way inclined is interested in bouncing some ideas around, I'd like to chat with you!

[SilverSheriff]

Also, @ BPG, you need to post in the debating competition.
I've got a lot on my plate at the moment.:smallannoyed:
Yeah, so anyone still interested out there?

[Llama231]

I am.




:tongue:



We also have some more potential writers too in the arts+crafts forum.

[SharpWolf]

Well, I'm interested, just not very available. I can try to get things started, though. It's been a while since I've done crazy stuff with RPGMaker, but I'll manage.

I can both script and code and I can "create scenes" (that is, I'm pretty good at putting it all together and creating an interesting atmosphere). I can also write and design gameplay, but I think we've got more than enough of people who can do that right now, so I'll focus on my specialty.

So, if someone is willing to create a script for the first few scenes plus do some gameplay design (still with RPGMaker VX in mind, please, I really don't feel like learning how to use a new game-making tool if it's not absolutely necessary -- I've already much to do on the programming/personal projects side), I could make another, more interesting (and interactive) demo, hopefully drawing more people and enthusiasm in the project.

[Llama231]

How about this? (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/first-scene-dialog-t17.html)

[Llama231]

So... Has everyone given up? Does anyone have a suggestion of something that needs to be done that I could do to get people interested in this again?

[levi]

Some questions:

What's the state of this project?
Do you have any programmers and are you looking?
Has coding started yet?
Are you doing 2d or 3d? (Theres been discussion of both.)
Are you using a game maker or writing an engine?
Who's on the team at the moment?


I'm asking because I'm a programmer and a game project with some team members to do writing, level editing, graphics, etc. so I can just focus on code sounds a lot more achiveable than my usual one man projects (that never get done).

So please let me know where things stand.

Edit

Here's a list of the usual positions on a RPG dev team. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a seperate person and some will probably have more than one person, but anyway. This is mostly based on the way Square-Enix credits thier people, but kinda paraphrased and in no particular order.


Feild Design
Battle Design
Character Design
Monster Design
Senario Design
Feild Programming
Battle Programming
Senario Programming
Dialog Writing
Music Composer
Musician
Sound Desginer
Feild Artist
Character Artist
Monster Artist
Effects Artist
Playtester
Producer
Director


I probably left out some things and there's a lot of overlap between designers and artists in some teams, but that should give you the gist of whats really needed. Do you have enough team members to cover everything? As I said, not all positions need to be one person. Bare minimum is probably:


Programmer
Artist
Level Desginer
Sound Guy


That's assuming everyone pulls some level of double duty and a hardcore team.

[Llama231]

Yay! ^.^ Someone!

Bolded.


Some questions:

What's the state of this project? Sort of started, but everyone gave up. Sort of.
Do you have any programmers and are you looking? Sort of; yes.
Has coding started yet? Definitely not.
Are you doing 2d or 3d? (Theres been discussion of both.) 2D as of now.
Are you using a game maker or writing an engine? Gamemaker sounds easier.
Who's on the team at the moment? Me. Possibly more.


I'm asking because I'm a programmer and a game project with some team members to do writing, level editing, graphics, etc. so I can just focus on code sounds a lot more achievable than my usual one man projects (that never get done).We really, REALLY, REALLY need a programmer.This would be awesome.

So please let me know where things stand. Um... We need attention to gert people interested again, and a programmer.

Edit

Here's a list of the usual positions on a RPG dev team. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a separate person and some will probably have more than one person, but anyway. This is mostly based on the way Square-Enix credits their people, but kinda paraphrased and in no particular order.
I am interested in the bolded stuff, cannot do the crossed out stuff, and the underlined stuff I can help with.

Feild Design
Battle Design
Character Design
Monster Design
Senario Design
Feild Programming
Battle Programming
Senario Programming
Dialog Writing
Music Composer
Musician
Sound Desginer
Feild Artist
Character Artist
Monster Artist
Effects Artist
Playtester
Producer
Director I'm the closest person to doing this really.


This is similar to my to-do list. Have you seen it? (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/the-to-do-list-t16.html)

I probably left out some things and there's a lot of overlap between designers and artists in some teams, but that should give you the gist of whats really needed. Do you have enough team members to cover everything? As I said, not all positions need to be one person. Bare minimum is probably:
We used to, but not so much anymore.


Programmer You, I hope? Also, Pikabob.
Artist We need this.
Level Desginer Me.
Sound Guy We need this too, but I can help with it. Although, why so much focus on sound?


That's assuming everyone pulls some level of double duty and a hardcore team.
Unlikely.

[SharpWolf]

Sorry, I haven't had much time for anything lately because of real life issues. However, I might be able to create a new, better, more interactive RPGMaker demo somewhere in the next few weeks. Also, chances are I'll have much more free time in maybe three months, so I'll probably be able to put more time into this project then. :smallsmile:


How about this? (http://www.playgroundstudios.freeforums.org/first-scene-dialog-t17.html)

Yep, I think that's going to do the trick. I can't guarantee the whole "wagon flipping on the main character" thing right away, though, given that this means I'll have to check how to do that in RPGMaker, but I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: Also, that might just be me, but after reading it a few times, the dialogue in the link you have posted feels a bit... weird. :smallconfused:

[Llama231]

Well, another bump for the attention.

Any help is good help, so even if you can only possibly do a little, it is always appreciated.

[RandomWord]

Well, since the entire reason I'm in a programming major is to make video games...
I would certainly be interested in this project of yours. How is work coming along?

[Devixer]

Hey, if you need a music guy, I'm your man.