Valve Thread (OR: The Great Hats-for-Food Scandal)

[KBF]

And on the battlefield, it doesn't matter if you win or lose, as long as you tried your best.

Or love happened to blossom.



I'm idling on on Lawful, if anyone wants to join me. Someone (^^^) needs to ask Shamus to update the servers so halos will show up. It's been about a week.

[Rutskarn]

That sounds suspiciously like commie talk, son.

And you know what we do with commies.

WET WILLIE!

[Nano]

WET WILLIE!

Oh gods, no! I'll repent! Anything but that!

[Rutskarn]

I'm idling on on Lawful, if anyone wants to join me. Someone (^^^) needs to ask Shamus to update the servers so halos will show up. It's been about a week.

I've made him aware of the situation...still, something tells me our non-Halo state is for the best.

[Nano]

...Sense? Common or otherwise?

[chiasaur11]

I've made him aware of the situation...still, something tells me our non-Halo state is for the best.

Yeah.

I mean, the Library is so... very... dull.

And if he installs the second part, the shotgun becomes utterly useless.

[KBF]

I'm.. So confused by what you meant by that.

But I'm going to violently disagree. I hate you and everything you stand for.

[Kyouhen]

I'm.. So confused by what you meant by that.

But I'm going to violently disagree. I hate you and everything you stand for.

That's fine, I'm just going to accuse you of being a fanboy and glare at you.

:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallmad:

[LurkerInPlayground]

*buries face in hands*

Everytime I start on Heavy I feel like an idiot. Partly because usually I am an idiot on the voice chat, mostly because I feel this inexplicable attraction to the fists.
There's something viciously satisfying about sneaking behind someone and punching their brains out.
At the risk of repeating myself, I feel I should emphasize that the chain gun works best when you treat it like an upgraded melee weapon.

You fire in bursts and keep moving. And you preferentially "melee" people who don't know you are there or can't hit back. By moving around a bit, you keep yourself guarded and impose area control.

Because riddling people with several dozen bullets at point blank is far more amusing than punching them.

[Penguinizer]

Then again. It's also lots of fun just to plow through an all-pyro team guns-ablazing, their dropped Axtinguishers fueling your minigun. I got 14 kills that way. Goes to show that Team Heavy>Team Pyro.

[Dogmantra]

That's a really ineffective use of Spy.

Oh, no doubt, but it's really fun. 'Specially on small CTF servers.

[Rutskarn]

Actually, one of my favorite kind of kills to get as Spy is unloading a revolver into a target, then finishing him with the knife.

It's not always the most practical option, but it's damn exciting.

[KBF]

My favorite kill as a spy is actually using one of the advanced techniques, like a stairstab.

I've yet to get one. Mostly because I never get to play spy...

[Jibar]

I think the people on D20 undersell themselves sometimes.
I was just playing on a pub server as a Heavy and absolutely owning. I was clearing out anyone who came near, defending all my points or getting straight on any that came open. It was awesome.
And then I go onto D20 and I'm losing miserably all the time.
People are a lot better than they think.

[Kyouhen]

I think the people on D20 undersell themselves sometimes.
I was just playing on a pub server as a Heavy and absolutely owning. I was clearing out anyone who came near, defending all my points or getting straight on any that came open. It was awesome.
And then I go onto D20 and I'm losing miserably all the time.
People are a lot better than they think.

Nah, Heavies are protected by srs business armour. As long as people are taking them seriously they become invincible. On d20 we don't seem to usually take games very seriously, so you immediately become more fragile than a Sandman Scout. :smallbiggrin:

[potatocubed]

And that's pretty damn fragile - Sandman scouts lose headbutting contests with eggshells.

[Ziren]

Nah, Heavies are protected by srs business armour. As long as people are taking them seriously they become invincible. On d20 we don't seem to usually take games very seriously, so you immediately become more fragile than a Sandman Scout. :smallbiggrin:

It might also have to do with the fact that you only rarely end up in a team with five spies on 20sided. Unless we're playing cowboys vs Native Americans again :smalltongue:

[Dread Cthulhu]

Great. I go away for two days and everyone gets hats. Well, better go earn some.

[Jibar]

Great. I go away for two days and everyone gets hats. Well, better go earn some.

Actually, speaking of which I had a dream last night where everybody got hats and I didn't.
It was kinda sad.

[Player_Zero]

I think the people on D20 undersell themselves sometimes.
I was just playing on a pub server as a Heavy and absolutely owning. I was clearing out anyone who came near, defending all my points or getting straight on any that came open. It was awesome.
And then I go onto D20 and I'm losing miserably all the time.
People are a lot better than they think.

Scrub server is obviously for scrubs.

Pretty good show too.

Seriously though, on D20 we have a few decent players like drolkal, if that's how it's spelt, and a couple of great players like Arbitrary but then we've got a load of crummy players like Ninjew's brother and Rutskarn.


Actually, speaking of which I had a dream last night where everybody got hats and I didn't.
It was kinda sad.

I had a dream where people who murdered by the dead when they stepped on the floor by things named after a bloodline from Vampire: the Masquerade.

Mine beats yours.

[Rutskarn]

Not Buttskarn, eh? I'm moving up in the world. Future's so bright I have to get extensive eye surgery.

[Player_Zero]

Not Buttskarn, eh? I'm moving up in the world. Future's so bright I have to get extensive eye surgery.

Well it would hardly be a very amusing post if I didn't say you were lame and smelled like the rear end of a yak now would it? -Wait, I mean, 'didn't say you were a bad player'. Yeah. That's the one.

[Rutskarn]

Well it would hardly be a very amusing post if I didn't say you were lame and smelled like the rear end of a yak now would it? -Wait, I mean, 'didn't say you were a bad player'. Yeah. That's the one.

Well, I acknowledge that last bit, but I do take offense to the being lame and...

Well, okay, no, I guess that's fair. But the yak...

Hm. Okay, I'm going to be technical about this one. Nostrilwitness reports oscillate between a dying hog and a musk ox in heat--yaks, however, I have not heard. I'm going to go ahead and call YS on this one.

[Dread Cthulhu]

I once had a dream where I had every single hat. I think that was when I realized it was all a dream.

[Fawkes]

The solution to all your problems is hat mod.

All glory to the hat mod!

[Kyouhen]

I'd like to announce that all the demo videos have been uploaded now.

[Rutskarn]

I'd like to announce that all the demo videos have been uploaded now.

Right. I'm going to be gone the next few days, but I'll get back to them when I can.

[KBF]

Seriously though, on D20 we have a few decent players like drolkal, if that's how it's spelt, and a couple of great players like Arbitrary but then we've got a load of crummy players like Ninjew's brother and Rutskarn.

You know when it's the very best on d20? The times that you can barely even just look back fondly on because it's so hard to recapture the magic using the pathetic worthless human imagination?

When lil' Ninjews has 3 dominations and the whole other team is yelling at him. It's happened, and it was awesome. That one time. :smalltongue:

[wojonatior]

Minjews Had 3 Dominations?!?! What Has Happened To This World!?!?

[TheLogman]

It is no secret that I am a laughably bad L4D player.

But on top of this, I hate Dead Air.

It's just not a good map. I don't have fun playing it, and I just don't like it.

And yet over 75% of the games I join are Dead Air.

That and I lose all the time. Maybe it's because I can't pounce to save my team, maybe it's because click lag ruins my every boom, and maybe it's because I always join teams that are 40 to 2000 after a serious thrashing and the guy whose space I'm taking just ragequit.

That and I just hate Dead Air.

[Volug]

I'd like to announce that all the demo videos have been uploaded now.

Is it just me, or is the second one not downloading correctly? It downloads at like 2kb a second, and then I find the file is corrupted...

[Jahkaivah]

I guess these are kinda old, but (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J09ZgJcTc-4&fmt=18) they (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR-ovvyPMFM&feature=response_watch) sure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ve0U52nTZs&feature=related#movie_player) are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0G4WLV4XUk&feature=response_watch#movie_player) trippy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4LX2O4kKvs&feature=response_watch)

[Imposter]

Uh, I just got the orange box recently. I'm not going to ask where you people play, because I suck and the entire thread seems to radiate that aura of competence that I try to avoid in opponents. I was just wondering if any of you have any tips for a newbie trying to get better at the game. So, is there anything I should do? Besides devote every second of my free time to this latest addiction?

[Fawkes]

Actually, d20 is pretty newbie-friendly.

If you're looking to play against the worst possible opponents, go to a 32-player 2fort instant respawn server. And watch out for snipers.

[Nano]

Wait wait wait WAIT.

Wait.


Waaaaait.


You called us... what, now?


And really playing with better players than yourself, which I'll be for all of a day if I'm lucky, is the way to get better. Watch what they do, learn how to counter it and emulate it, etc. There's also a good selection of How To Play <Class> videos on youtube that'll help.

And really, the Twenty Sided servers are a very good place to be as a newbie. There're links on the first post of the thread, I believe.

[Rutskarn]

Oh yeah, heads up: I'm going to be gone for a few days starting in...about half an hour. Anyway, I won't be there to moderate Lawful or Chaotic.

If you need anything, and Phase is online, he should be able to help you out.

Also: go for it, Imposter. I've sure we've had worse on the Twenty Sided servers.

[KBF]

Occasionally, occasionally there is that one guy, that one guy who will yell at you. I think he's a regular, but I don't like him very much so I forget his name so I won't be mad at him. Because he's a pretty cool guy, but sometimes it seems he hates newbies. I mean, when his team sucks he just goes off. Try not to let it get to you if he's on.

He's like your weird racist uncle. Except I never had a racist uncle so he fills in, except.. Yeah.

[Fawkes]

I have no idea who you're talking about.

[Arbitrarity]

Uh, I just got the orange box recently. I'm not going to ask where you people play, because I suck and the entire thread seems to radiate that aura of competence that I try to avoid in opponents. I was just wondering if any of you have any tips for a newbie trying to get better at the game. So, is there anything I should do? Besides devote every second of my free time to this latest addiction?

Learn better. Hold on, I'll try to summarize everything I can think of ATM.

Never stop moving, if possible. Ever. No, not even then.
I recommend a custom crosshair, and enabling auto-reload (options, multiplayer, advanced)
Medic and Pyro are the two easiest classes to start as. Soldier, Heavy, Demo, and Engineer are OK. Sniper is hard UNLESS you have prior experience. Spy is a pain, and scouts get murdered unless you learn to aim and dodge really well.
Melee weapons are solid, and very easy to aim. However, most of the time, guns serve just as well, albeit are a bit harder to aim.
Note that most weapons reloading single shots reload faster if you reload consecutive shots. For example, demoman pipe bombs take twice as long to reload the first shot as later shots. Also note ANY reload animation can now be cancelled by attacking, as long as you have spare ammunition.
All weapons but stickies, pipes, rifle, and huntsman have falloff at longer ranges. Crits and mini-crits ignore damage falloff. Crit shots with spread (shotguns) are much more accurate (less spread). Crits do *3 damage, minicrits do *1.35. Note that this is compared to weapon "base" damage, which is related closely to the damage weapons deal at mid range. Since damage falloff scales differently depending on weapon, crits damage is still recorded. Minimum damage, after falloff, is ALWAYS 1/6 critical hit damage.
There is no noticeable recoil on ANY weapons.
Crits on indivudual shot weapons (rocket launcher, shotgun) check for crits for each shot. Crits on rapid-fire weapons (minigun, SMG), check every second, granting 2 seconds of critical fire. Crit chance starts a 2% base (15% for melee weapons), increases by 1% for every 80 damage you dealt in the last 20 seconds.
Any dropped enemy weapon except the Sandwich will refill 1/2 of the reserve ammo on all your weapons, and 100 metal for engineers. Small health/ammo packs give 20%, medium give 50%, large give 100%, of max health/reserve ammo back.
Class Summaries:
All weapons are in order of primary, secondary, melee. Unlockables replace their equivalent position, unless otherwise noted.
Scout:
Hard to play as. 133% speed compared to norm. Can double jump, which negates all midair momentum and gives a new heading based on directional keys. 125 HP (95 hp with sandman).
Weapons:
Scattergun:
6/32 shots (loaded, reserve), reloads single shot at a time. ~95 damage point blank, 1 shot every 2/3 second. Serious falloff at long range due to spread of bullets. 10 pellets/shot, each does 18 damage on a crit, for perfect 180 damage on a good shot.
Pistol:
12/36 shots, reloads as a clip. Efficient at mid/close range, if you can aim it. Acts like full auto, just hold down the mouse button for maximum fire rate. 20 damage at point blank. Crits deal 45 damage.
Bat:
Fastest melee weapons, attacks every 1/2 second. 30-40 damage on regular hits, 105 on crits.
Unlockables:
Force-a-nature:
2/32 shots. Loads as clip, unusually, discards unused shots in clip. 20% more pellets (thus, more damage) than scattergun, 10% less damage (still overall increase, of 108% scattergun damage). Fires twice as fast. Knocks back enemies (depending on number of pellets hitting), and pushes you if you are in midair. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51THziXV_pQ for jump technique.

Bonk energy drink:
Drink (takes ~1 second), for 6 seconds of immunity to damage. After immunity wears off, 6 seconds cooldown before you can use again, and SLOW, to ~1/2 scout speed. Slow can be partially negated by side-strafing.

Sandman:
Banned in most competetive play. Same damage and fire-rate as bat, takes 30 of max health (leaving you vulnerable to MANY 1 hit kills, like rockets, pipe bombs, scattergun shots). Alt fire bats a ball towards enemies, stuns if it hits them at mid-range. The ball arcs, and stuns for longer at longer distances. Stunned enemies take 75% normal damage. Stun ranges from 2-7 seconds. Baseball respawns after 15 seconds, OR you can pick up your ball, or that of another scout, off the ground. Ball does trivial damage (3). No longer stuns ubercharged players (see medic).

Soldier:
200 health, 80% base speed.
Weapons:
Rocket Launcher:
4/20, individual shot reload. ~105 damage point blank. Slow travel time, requires leading. Splash damage (at close range, self damage), 4/5 seconds per shot. Criticals do 270 damage on a hit, splash varies significantly. Knocks enemies around, stopping them with direct hits, knocking them into the air if you hit around the feet. This weapon is INCREDIBLY COMPLEX. Allows control of enemy movement, as well as opening up movement options for the soldier. To "Rocket Jump", aim the launcher downwards, and jump, crouch, and fire, all at once. Note that aiming the launcher at a slight angle allows longer jumps, rather than straight up. Long jumps should do ~ 30 damage, high jumps do ~50, + fall damage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QKxDPEW1oU&feature=related
Pro vid.

Shotgun:
Like every other shotgun. 6/32, single shot reload, 85 damage point blank, serious falloff. Switch to this when out of rockets in clip (not always, but it's a good habit). Very effective, actually. 180 crit, spread over 10 pellets.

Shovel: Like every non-knife/bat, 4/5 of a second attack rate, ~65 damage per hit, 195 crit.
Soldier has no unlocks.

Pyro
175 health, standard speed
Weapons
Flamethrower:
Rapid fire, 200 ammo, no reload. VERY limited range. Lights enemies on fire (duh), dealing ~3 damage each 1/2 second for 10 seconds, minorly shaking screen, and lighting them up. Effectively negates spy cloak. Deals ~200 DPS point blank, to ~100 DPS at maximum range. Crits do 450-300 DPS, point-blank to maximum range. Doesn't work underwater (duh)
Importantly, has Airblast, which deflects rockets, arrows and pipes, knocks stickies away, and blows enemies into the air. Requires serious timing to use well. 25 ammo/use, can use about once a second. Also extinguishes allies set on fire.
Shotgun:
As soldier shotgun.
Fireaxe:
Standard melee, as shovel.
Unlocks:
Backburner:
As flamethrower, but criticals whenever attacking an enemy's rear (~60 degree arc). Disables airblast.
Flaregun:
16 shots, slow fire rate (1 shot per 2 seconds). 30 damage over any range, slow moving, arcing projectile. Sets enemies on fire. Hitting an enemy on fire gives a mini-crit, increasing fire damage to 8/second, as well as dealing 40 damage on impact. Doesn't work underwater.
Axtinguisher:
As other melee weapons, but deals 1/2 damage. However, against enemies on fire, ALWAYS CRITS, for 195 damage.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZoP4yctqA for brutal pyro play.

Demoman:
175 health, 93% base speed. King of spam.
Weapons:
Pipe bomb launcher (pipes):
4/16, individual reload. ~100 damage/hit at any range, very variable. If not a direct hit, without bouncing, rolls around for 2.25 seconds before exploding. Indirect explosion deals 22-64 damage. ~300 crit. Splashes, arcs, fairly quick projectile. 3/5 second/shot. Very poor underwater.

Sticky bomb launcher:
8/24, individual reload, 130+ damage at point blank. Suffers from falloff for first 5 seconds of life, then deals ~120 damage no matter where.
Bombs triggered to explode by right clicking. Up to 8 bombs may be placed on essentially any surface. Firing more bombs will cause previous bombs to explode in the order they were placed. Bombs may be destroyed by bullet fire, and melee attacks. Bombs may be moved by explosions. Large splash damage. 1 second delay after firing, before bombs can be detonated. No placement limitations, however; you can detonate bombs in midair.
Can "sticky jump" by placing 1 or more stickies (3 is only possible with medic overheal), running over, jumping, crouching, detonating, at once.
Can be "charged" by holding mouse1, allowing stickies to travel faster, and further. Poor underwater.
Whiskey bottle:
Standard melee weapon.

Heavy
77% base speed, 27% when revved (see minigun). 300 health.
Weapons
Minigun (Sascha)
200 ammo, fires 4 bullets/ammo. Fairly wide spread. Takes 1 second to rev up to fire. Right clicking revs without firing, which lets you fire immediately. However, revving is very audible, and slows you to about 1/3 normal speed, making you VERY vulnerable to attack. Thankfully, the damage helps compensate. Up to 54 damage per unit of ammo, chewing through 10 units of ammo/second, means up to 540!! damage per second at point blank. At midrange, remains brutally effective, though a distraction at best at long range. Crits for 27 damage/bullet, 4 bullets/shot, 10 shots/second. Yeah.

Shotgun:
As soldier. A great backup weapon when on the move, or against snipers.

Fists:
As standard melee.

Unlocks
Natascha:
As standard minigun, but deals 25% less damage, is a bit quieter, and slows enemies when they are hit. Slow is less effective against side-strafing enemies, and has very little effect on slow classes (like other heavies).

Sandvich:
Unlimited ammo, takes 4 seconds to eat, heals 120 health. Eating, you are immobile, unable to attack, in third persond, and essentially helpless. Also, you make very loud "OM NOM NOM. NOM, NOM" sounds.

Killer Gloves of Boxing:
As standard melee, but 20% slower, and killing an enemy grants 5 seconds of guaranteed critical hits with every weapon you have.

Engineer:
125 hp, standard speed. A very versatile class, with a variety of deployables. Engineer crit chance is also affected by damage dealt by his sentry. 200 metal maximum, spawns with this much as well.

Weapons:
Shotgun:
As soldier.
Pistol:
As scout pistol, but with 200 reserve ammo. Spam away.
Wrench:
As standard melee, but also repairs/upgrades buildings.

Buildables:
Buildings are deployed by the PDA, weapon 4. Weapons 5 is the destruction tool, allowing an engineer to destroy unwanted buildings. Right clicking while deploying a building rotates it, critical to placing teleporters and sentries.
Hitting a damaged building with the wrench repairs it, hitting an undamaged building drains 25 metal (maximum) per hit, towards upgrading the building. All buildings need 200 metal to be upgraded, that is, 8 hits, assuming you have enough metal. Hitting a building while it is building reduced build time, to 1/2 if you hit the building constantly. This effect stacks, allowing groups of engineers to construct 1 building very rapidly. 2 wrench hits removes spy sappers. You may have 1 building of each sort built at any given time. Destroyed building debris gives a bit of metal, and a lot of ammo.
Buildings are not affected by critical hits or damage falloff, they always take the weapon's base damage on direct hits, or 1/3 it's crit damage.
Engineers cannot walk through their own building, but can crouch-jump on them, as can any enemies.
Disguised spies are treated as allies by buildings, who will not fire/heal/teleport them as they would normal players. However, spies still can't walk through enemy buildings.
Sentry
130 metal, 10 second deploy, 150 hp. Limited ammo, which is restored by hitting with wrench, which costs metal. ~16 damage per shot, 2 shots/second. Shots have significant knockback, and slow charging enemies, as well as knocking airborne enemies around. Upgrades increase health first to 180, then 216. Fire rate is doubled at level 2, and doubled again at level 3. Level 3 sentries also have a rocket launcher, firing every 4 seconds, dealing ~150 damage on a direct hit. Higher level sentries also turn faster. Sentries will not fire through friendly dispensers. Sentries will not damage allies (though there may still be a bug with the rockets), but WILL damage the engineer who built them, if he is in the line of fire.

Dispenser:
100 metal, heals, restores ammo, and gives metal. 150 hp. Ammo and health are dispensed to nearby allies, while metal charges up, with 1 "tick" of 40/50/60 metal appearing every 5 seconds, and 1 tick being given to any nearby engineer (the builder of the dispenser has priority for the metal) each second. Heals 10/15/20 health per second, restores 20/30/40% of ammo each second. All numbers are given dependent on level, that is, 1/2/3.

Teleporter:
125 metal for the entrance, 125 metal for exit., teleports allies from the entrance to the exit, leaving them with a glittery trail for 13 seconds. 150 hp. Charges in 10/5/3 seconds at levels 1/2/3. Teleporter upgrades are tied together: Upgrading 1 end upgrades the other. However, destroying 1 end also removes all upgrades and progress from the other. Spies sapping either end of a teleporter simultaneously sap the other end, and knocking off 1 sapper removes the other. Anyone standing on the end of a teleporter as a player teleports in is killed, unless they are ubered, in which case both players are stuck, until the uber wears off, when the teleported-onto player dies. Enemy spies can use your teleporter, which does let them telefrag your allies on the teleporter exit.

Medic:
150 hp, 107% base speed. Pretty much essential to any real team, the medic provides easy health regain, and critical stalemate-breaking power.

Weapons:
Needlegun:
40/150, clip reload, 10 shots/second, 15 damage/shot point blank. Arc slightly, and require leading. Crits for 30/shot.

Medigun:
Core of the class. Heals 32 hp/second on a recently damaged ally. After 10 seconds of the ally not taking damage (even if not being healed, just has to have not been hurt), the healing ramps up linearly to 96 hp/sec at 15 seconds of not having taken damage. That is, an ally who hasn't been hurt for 15 seconds gets healed 96 hp/sec. An ally who is taking damage is healed at 32 hp/sec. An ally who hasn't taken damage for 12.5 seconds heals at 64 hp/sec.
Sticks to targeted person, as long as you hold down mouse1, even when turning around, etc. Limited range, however, and the beam only bends so far around corners.
Heals allies to a maximum of 150% their maximum health! This allows them to endure much more punishment. However, they lose this "overheal" at a rate of 2.5% their maximum health/second, until after 20 seconds, they are at normal health.
Healing builds "ubercharge", which lets the medic and his heal target go invulnerable (immune to damage, NOT KNOCKBACK) for 8 seconds by right-clicking when using the medigun with full charge. Charge builds at 2.5%/second of healing, 1.25%/second if the target is at 150% health. Uber immediately extinguishes fires, and can be swapped from target to target. An ubered ally is still invulnerably for ~0.5 seconds after the beam is removed, allowing a medic to uber many allies at once. However, each simultaneous ubered ally after the first makes the uber drain much faster.

Bonesaw:
Standard melee.

Unlockables:

Blutsauger:
As needlegun, but never randomly crits, heals 3 health/hit.

Kritzkrieg:
As medigun, but builds uber at a rate of 3.33%/sec, 1.66 if target is at 150% health. Instead of granting invulnerability, grants 8 seconds of guaranteed critical hits for the healed target.

Ubersaw:
As bonesaw, but 20% slower (1 swing/second ish), and gives 25% ubercharge per hit!

Sniper:
125 hp, standard speed.
Weapons:
Sniper Rifle:
25 shots, perfectly accurate no matter what. "Charges" when zoomed in, scaling from 50 base damage to 150 over 3 seconds, starting 1 second after zooming in. Unscoped shots never score headshots. Unscoped shots always deal 50 damage. Scoping is right-click, takes 0.2 seconds before you can score a headshot. Reduces field of view, slows speed to 27% normal, and puts a dot of your team's color on whatever you aim at, possibly revealing your presence to the other team. Cannot scope while jumping or swimming. Headshots deal triple normal damage. A fully charged (150) headshot (*3, 450) deals enough damage to bring down a heavy (300 health), who is being overhealed by a medic (*1.5, 450). Reloads in about 1.2 seconds, after each shot.

SMG
25/75, clip reload, 12 damage per shot at point blank, 10 shots per second, with fair spread. A useful backup, at close range, or when finishing off highly damaged foes. Crits for 24/shot.

Kukri:
Standard melee.

Unlockables:

Huntsman
1/12, takes 1 second of drawing the bow with mouse 1 to fully charge. Releasing mouse 1 fires the shot. Fires arrows, which arc depending on charge, and travel fairly quickly. Arrows deal 50 damage uncharged, to 120 damage (ish, +- 10%, as with most weapons) fully charged. After 4 seconds of holding a fully charged arrow, the Sniper's arms begin to shake, making the shot EXTREMELY inaccurate. Mouse 2 retracts the arrow, allowing the sniper to conserve ammo. Cannot draw while underwater or jumping. Headshots can be scored with any arrow, for triple damage. Pins dead enemies to nearby walls, if applicable. While drawing an arrow, you are slowed, though not as much as the rifle.

RazorFailzorback
Replaces SMG, protects you from 1 spy backstab. Knocks you out of scope, if applicable, when broken by stab. Stops spy from using knife or switching weapons for 2 seconds when broken.
Jarate (The jar based karate):
Replaces SMG. Jar of your urine. Lasts 10 seconds, takes 20 seconds to recharge. Attacking throws the jar in an arc, which breaks to cover an area with urine. Urine extinguishes any allies on fire, causes enemies hit to have yellow, wavery vision, and any hits on an enemy covered in jarate are mini-crits.
As well, enemy spies hit by jarate are revealed, and their cloaks disrupted. The spy may also have some choice comments about this.

Spy:
125 hp, normal speed.
Weapons and tools:
Revolver:
6/24, clip based, rapid reload, attacks about twice a second. 60 damage point blank, 20 at maximum range. 120 damage on a crit.
Sapper:
Disables and damages engineer buildings. Applies as fast as you can click, and the engineer can knock these off with 2 wrench hits. Deals 25 damage per second to buildings.
Knife:
Weakest melee weapon in the game in a head-to-head fight. Attacks at the same rate as other melee weapons, for 30-50 damage per swing. Never criticals, except when backstabbing. Backstabs (hits from the 180 degree arc behind a player) instantly kill any enemy, except spies using the dead ringer, and invulnerable (bonk included) enemies.
Disguise Kit
Allows you to appear as a member of either team, in any class. - switches team choice (defaults to enemy). Numbers correspond to various classes.
See http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Disguise for detailed look.

Invisibility watch
Makes you invisible for up to 10 seconds. Picking up ammo recharges the cloak, the larger the ammo restoration, the more cloak. This includes dropped weapons, dispensers (level 2 and 3 dispensers actually recharge cloak, even if you are cloaked). Cloak is activated and deactivated by right clicking. Cloaking takes 1 second to take total effect, as does decloaking. If you are damaged, or run into an enemy while cloaked, you appear as a transparent figure glowing your own team's color. While cloaked, you cannot attack or place sappers. When cloak runs out, you decloak.
Unlockables:

Ambassador:
As Revolver. However, accurate shots (1.25 seconds after a previous shot) which hit the head are automatic critical hits. Deals 15% less damage, 20% slower fire rate.

Cloak and Dagger
Replaces invisibility Watch. Most attributes are the same, however, ammunition does not grant cloak, but cloak is depleted based on movement, while being regained naturally at twice the rate of the invisibility watch. When a spy is out of cloak, using this watch, he shimmers visible, but if he stops moving, he becomes invisible instantly.
Dead Ringer:
Replaces Invisibility Watch. Recharges with ammunition as regular watch. When activated, spy pulls out watch. If the spy is damaged with the watch out, he is cloaked for 6.5 seconds. During this time, he never shimmers in cloak, even if damaged or running into enemies. He also takes 90% less damage, including the hit that makes him cloak. He may stop the cloak at any time, but it will drain 20% of the charge, minimum, even if instantly decloaking. The dead ringer may only be pulled out when the spy has a full cloak meter. Uncloaking with the dead ringer makes a very loud, obvious noise, unlike the other cloaks, which make a quiet hiss.
Also, when you are initially hit with the dead ringer out, you drop a ragdoll (of yourself, if disguised as an enemy, or of a member of your own team, if you are disguised as a friendly. I.e. disguise as a friendly pyro, you drop a pyro ragdoll), are no longer on fire (if applicable), provide a kill message for your "killer".

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639355
http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page
Note: This is unfinished, I'm working on it. I may get more class specific tactics, though that should probably be another post.

[Player_Zero]

I recommend a custom crosshair, and enabling auto-reload (options, multiplayer, advanced)

Don't do this if you're playing spy. It's a bit annoying with the scout's pistol too, but autoreloading the scattershot is fairly useful.

Don't know how useful a different crosshair would be unless you're playing sniper.

Also, shovel is OP.

[Teln]

Word of advice, stay off the public servers for a bit, there's a bit of an argument over a certain hat that people who didn't cheat got, and they're not giving out any more. As a newbie, you won't have the hat (an angel's halo, if you're wondering).

[wojonatior]

Quite detailed. Some stuff I didn't know!

[The Linker]

I'm never entirely comfortable with advising players to go downloading things before they've even had much of a chance to play on their own. No need to develop crutches way early on. It's like giving a baby a fancy wheelchair to ensure he'll never learn how to walk, ever.

Of course, I suppose it's different with custom crosshairs, becuase... well, like Player Zero, I'm not sure how they help. Even the Sniper has a crosshair to help him noscope when he needs to, now.

Auto-reload definitely qualifies as a crutch situation, but I can't come up with a compelling argument to not use it -- it's part of the game now, after all. Not remembering to reload could screw you over in other games, I suppose, but....

[Faulty]

Uh, I just got the orange box recently. I'm not going to ask where you people play, because I suck and the entire thread seems to radiate that aura of competence that I try to avoid in opponents. I was just wondering if any of you have any tips for a newbie trying to get better at the game. So, is there anything I should do? Besides devote every second of my free time to this latest addiction?

Friend me. (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197981215662)

[Arbitrarity]

I'm never entirely comfortable with advising players to go downloading things before they've even had much of a chance to play on their own. No need to develop crutches way early on. It's like giving a baby a fancy wheelchair to ensure he'll never learn how to walk, ever.

Of course, I suppose it's different with custom crosshairs, becuase... well, like Player Zero, I'm not sure how they help. Even the Sniper has a crosshair to help him noscope when he needs to, now.

Bright green stands out very well against all backgrounds. That's mostly it. Scripting lets you do better (disable viewmodels, different crosshairs for different weapons), but mostly, its for better visibility.

[Player_Zero]

Bright green stands out very well against all backgrounds. That's mostly it. Scripting lets you do better (disable viewmodels, different crosshairs for different weapons), but mostly, its for better visibility.

Mostly this would only help with accurate hitscan weapons though wouldn't it? And this game has, what, two of those?

[Nano]

I've also found that it does actually help aiming other weapons, too - Even for the inaccurate weapons it's made a difference for me. Better than 'vaguely in the middle of the screen' as a reference point, anyways. I use a bright cyan circle.

[Arbitrarity]

Nah, not really. Good with rifle, yes. But, standing out on background is handy in almost any situation, and it tends to be easier to notice when aiming, especially at close range.

Meh, not necessary, but even soldier guides recommend it. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI29xEnfTzI&fmt=22, about 2 minutes in.

[Fawkes]

Imposter, post your Steam ID, and someone'll send you a group invite. Then a bunch of us will add you as friends, and then you've got a posse.

First you get the posse, then you get the power, then you get the women.

[Fawkes]

On an unrelated note, here's something (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/73008) for those of you who hate the sight of halos.

And for those of you who just want to make Soldier (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/71557) look silly (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/72920)...

[The Linker]

I still haven't gotten to see a halo at all, in-game. Ever.

One could suggest that I could visit a non-d20 server, but one would be a vile heathen.

Surely none of you are vile heathens.

[KBF]

I still haven't gotten to see a halo at all, in-game. Ever.

One could suggest that I could visit a non-d20 server, but one would be a vile heathen.

Surely none of you are vile heathens.

I did so once, yesterday, because I got curious.
Then I went to play on d20 where I don't get to wear a hat.

[Faulty]

On an unrelated note, here's something (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/73008) for those of you who hate the sight of halos.

Wow! It's ****ing nothing!

[wojonatior]

I like that idea...

[KBF]

Wow! It's ****ing nothing!

At least it's more mature than Healers Against Halos. I'm not against it.

[Nano]

Now, I know literature doesn't tend to be a big thing in this thread, but I saw this new spin on a classic and I thought it was relevant. It's refreshing to see new authors stepping it up.

Valve: Repercussions of Evil

Chet waited. The computer in front of him him blinked and sparked out. There were idlers in the game. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Robin Walker were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
Chet was a valve employee for fourteen years. When he was young he played the games and he said to Gabe "I want to make Team Fortress 2, Gabe."
Gabe said "No! You will BE FLAME BY IDLERS."
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the TF2 section of the forums he knew there were idlers.
"This is Gabe" the radio crackered. "You must fight the idlers!"
So Chet gotted his computer and blew up the idler's items.
"HE TAKE OUR ITEM" said the idlers.
"I will flame at him" said the cyberidler and he postedd the rocket insults. John ban-hammered at him and tried to ban him away. But then the forums crashed and they were trapped and not able to kill.
"No! I must kill the idlers!" he shouted
The radio said "No, Chet. You are the idlers."
And then Chet was a filthy cheater.

[KBF]

I think that literature could have been greatly improved by replacing the antagonists with "cheaters" as opposed to idlers. You know, like Valve's blog posts where they condemn third party programs.

1/5 would not read again
needs video adaption

[Faulty]

"No Chet. You are the idlers."

I must get this into HLDJ. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8ViYIeH04)

[NeoVid]

On Saturday, I had the best run I'd ever had since the game came out. Playing BLU Heavy on Badwater, I went from being knocked to 1 HP after my uber ran out at the start, to surviving, staying on the cart for the entire round, and shattering my old records for points, kills, domination, destruction, captures, and probably damage dealt, though I forgot to check that...

Then later that night when I start up the game again, none of those records had been saved.

grrargsnarl



Anyone have an idea how to make it more likely that my records will be saved? Normally at least half of the ones I make do get recorded, and I really don't want something like this to happen again when I get another round that good, however many years that will take.

[Player_Zero]

Why do you need them saved? You know you did them, so why worry?

[Myatar_Panwar]

Give it time. I beat my (meager) kill record two nights ago, and it didn't show up until late today.

edit: Dudes like to see their records. Might forget otherwise.

[Player_Zero]

Huh. I've only ever killed 20 people in one life with the soldier. What's everyone else's highest kill dealie? Excluding heavy.

[The Linker]

Mine's 20 -- also with the Soldier. I still remember that... an epic defense on Gold Rush, not even giving the opposition the first point on the first map. I got four dominations there -- and that was the opening round of the game. :smallbiggrin:

One odd thing about my records is that my highest destruction is with Scout, at 10. Soldier and Demoman are both at 8. I must have been teleporter-hounding that round.

[memnarch]

I'm don't get many chances to play with this college connection, but my most is 10 as Engineer.

[NeoVid]

Give it time. I beat my (meager) kill record two nights ago, and it didn't show up until late today.



...Thank you. I am suddenly less frustrated.

Though now I have hopes that can be crushed. Ah well, that's what hopes are for.

And I'm actually not sure what my kill record is. I've lost records many times and I reset my stats a couple of months ago. I think my most legit kills is 17 as Engineer, a month after the game came out, when I didn't have my own account.

My records that I find most impressive are 51 points during the epic Heavy run I just mentioned, 18 captures as Heavy and Scout on Badwater, and 6 Kritzes while defending Dustbowl 3-1.

That was a beautiful moment. Every time the attacking team was getting well set up for a big push... KRITZ DEMO OF DOOM AHAAHAAHAAA...

Good times.

[Thanatos 51-50]

So... have people shut up about hats and halos? Is it safe to come out of hiding?

[Dumbledore lives]

My best kills was a hilarious 36 as an engineer, with 64 destruction, and 108 points. I was playing in an all engineer game on D20 Lawful, on hoodoo. The run only got ended by a spy who shouldn't have been there anyway, though I did get knocked down to about 10 health quite a bit. Other than that I think it was 14 or so with a pyro, though I can't remember exactly.

[Phase]

My best kills was 29 in one life as Pyro on HooDoo defense. It was basically "Go back here, any enemies? Kill. No? Check up here. Any enemies? No? Go back to spawn. Repeat ad nauseum." Five dominations too, I think.

[Scorpionica]

I'm lagging behind with only 16 kills with both the Scout and Engineer. Though I have 21 assists as a Medic, from having Player_Zero as a Heavy in tow on Hoodoo defense, gaining the Big Pharma achievement.

[potatocubed]

My best ever kills in one life is... six? Not much more than six. I got bored with backstabbing the same heavy/medic combo every time they rolled past, so I wandered off and probably died a humiliating death somewhere.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

28 Kills + 19 Assists as Engie on Dustbowl 2-1. I think a good chunk of those kills were me kill stealing with my pistol after the sniper would no-scope body shot some people.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Man, I feel so underachieving. My best kills sat at 9 for the longest time (as a Medic, no less) with something like 22 assists, and my current highest is just 16 with the Heavy.

[Faulty]

Huh. I've only ever killed 20 people in one life with the soldier. What's everyone else's highest kill dealie? Excluding heavy.

I think something like 16 as an Engie. My Soldier best is I believe 12 or 14. Nothing comes close to that without being cheesy (I once got a really high score as a Heavy, but only because it was a 6 man game and the enemy team was mostly Scouts).

[Thanatos 51-50]

Man, my highest kills in one life is like... five or six or something. As a scout.
Although it is particulalry satisfying whenever one of those kills takes out a soldier or a sniper. And I'm on top of the a roof with them below me.
And I'm using the Force-a-nature.
And Then I jump down there, take out his Pyro buddy from behind and try to get outside the firing zone by the time everybody else on the enemy team blows me to giblets. Thats the point where the plan usually falls apart.
I say usually, because I've pulled it off before.

That'll teach you to bring your counter-sniping game to the last control point. Heh.

<I am the Feared, I am the Elite, I am the Shotgun Sniper>

[Player_Zero]

I'm lagging behind with only 16 kills with both the Scout and Engineer. Though I have 21 assists as a Medic, from having Player_Zero as a Heavy in tow on Hoodoo defense, gaining the Big Pharma achievement.

I'm a medic achievement-grabbing machine. Giving someone Medical Intervention during startup is always nice.

I think my highest as heavy is about 36 or so, but getting a high kill-death ratio as heavy on a public server is a bit easy.


So... have people shut up about hats and halos? Is it safe to come out of hiding?

Nope.

[Dogmantra]

My best kills is...
7...

They were backstabs, on a payload though, and I stopped the cart moving with them.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Nope.

Boo and hiss! Fie and damnation!
/retreats to his hidey-hole full of superheroes.

[Alleine]

Most kills? I wanna say 46 or higher, can't remember. But it doesn't count as it was on Lazytown and I was a wimp engineer who made sure to not take risks. The saddest part is that I set my record for healing in one life at the same time, I haven't been able to beat it as medic yet :P

[Dread Cthulhu]

I trust those records not at all. Every time I do well it forgets. Like the team I went Spy against 10 Engineers, my 20 point record was lost. Or how it maintained my best healing record was 6852 when I'd got both the achievements for amount of healing.

[Drascin]

Well, I'm bad, and I know it, so I don't feel too bad despite my underachieving. My top are 11 kills before dying. Pyro. I'm very proud, though, because one of those eleven was via tennis rocket, which I'm usually pretty bad at :smallbiggrin:.

[Player_Zero]

It's quite satisfying beating that Free [SF] guy. See, he swears and blames his team if he loses and is completely obnoxious if he wins. So I feel justified beating him into putty.

[Dogmantra]

So I finally got around to adding my Windows FD to my Steam Profile! I no longer feel naked.

In other news, I like playing Sniper. Possibly more so than Spy.

[Dread Cthulhu]

I love it when the achievements come thick and fast. On one server I got Belittled Beleaguer, Have a Plan and Show Trial. I almost got Shafted as well, but I had pretty bad luck since I was trying it in the vents in Turbine.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So, I was really bored today, and this is the result of some of my thoughts. Figured I'd throw this up for you guys if you're interested.

A Myriad of Unlock Ideas (Weapons, Hats, Misc.) (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=962830)

[Nano]

Those are all pretty nice, Djinn, though The Honorable Burial's respawn time penalty would never fly.

[NeoVid]

One idea that always seemed reasonable to me for an Engineer unlock is the ability to make 2 of each building, but they can't upgrade.

Also, it fits with the new wrench that's in beta testing. This would completely change Engi playstyle with very little actual effort.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Star-Spangled sounds overpowered since it lets your team effectively steamroll the other team in crowded chokepoints. All you have to do is be very, very reckless whenever anybody on their team makes a push.

The game has enough random win conditions as it is.

Scouts already have enough retardedly powerful stun or interference abilities in the FaN and the Sandman.

The math on the Babe Ruthless also does not work out. You only match the damage that a regular bat puts out at the fifth strike. It's only by hit #6 that you actually exceed the damage output of an ordinary bat.

[Player_Zero]

Movement impairing and display weapons. No.

No. No. No. No no no. No.

It's bad enough as it is.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Star-Spangled sounds overpowered since it lets your team effectively steamroll the other team in crowded chokepoints. All you have to do is be very, very reckless whenever anybody on their team makes a push.

Do you think Jarate is overpowered as well?

[Player_Zero]

Do you think Jarate is overpowered as well?

In comparison to the SMG and razorback in relation to teamplay, yes.

[KBF]

Movement impairing and display weapons. No.

No. No. No. No no no. No.

It's bad enough as it is.

.3 seconds. Do you understand how long that is? It's .3 seconds. One third of a second. Blink, done, and there's a bit of knockback. But you know what?

It does what Sandman's and FaN's goals were (made Scout annoying, give them more control over others movement) without that accursed feeling of total helplessness. The Scout's new gimmick is control of movement, it's obvious in all his unlockables.


EDIT:

In comparison to the SMG and razorback in relation to teamplay, yes.

Which was it's intended goal. I usually use SMG when I snipe because I don't trust them filthy traitors if anybody gets close.

[Volug]

What did the Announcer say about the time left?

IT'S OVERTIME THOUSAND!!!
OVERTIMEOVERTIMEOVERTIMEOVERTIMEOVERTIME

[Player_Zero]

You don't have to disagree with everything I say just because it is me who is saying it. Especially when your counterargument makes no sense.

The scout's unlockable were supposed to make the scout more annoying and jarate was intended to be better than both alternatives?

No. Unlockables are intended to be sidegrades which encourage a different style of play.

[Nano]

What did the Announcer say about the time left?

IT'S OVERTIME THOUSAND!!!


You are the most despicable sort of man.

[Player_Zero]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=930130

Old now perhaps, but they can't seriously be thinking of nerfing the medic unlockables instead of buffing the originals, right?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=930130

Old now perhaps, but they can't seriously be thinking of nerfing the medic unlockables instead of buffing the originals, right?

That is, in fact, exactly what they're thinking about doing.

[Arbitrarity]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=930130

Old now perhaps, but they can't seriously be thinking of nerfing the medic unlockables instead of buffing the originals, right?

Idiocy. The unlocks are actually good weapons. Buff needlegun and Bonesaw, give them something benficial.

Ideas range from "use uber to fire auto-crit needles", to "bonesaw increases ubercharge gain rate" or somesuch.

[Player_Zero]

That is, in fact, exactly what they're thinking about doing.

Dummkopfs!

[Bryn]

Hang on - according to that very linked thread, the beta was 'rejected by the beta testers'.

This post was linked. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11189339&postcount=991)

It seems likely that these proposed nerfs aren't going to happen, at least to me... :smallconfused:

[Myatar_Panwar]

The real update. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=962207)

[Faulty]

I would never trade in my revolver.

[Surrealistik]

Team YuGiOh is still accepting applicants for its exclusive and very prestigious fan club. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OfficialTeamYuGiOhFanclub)

[KBF]

You don't have to disagree with everything I say just because it is me who is saying it. Especially when your counterargument makes no sense.

But.. But.. That would be denying my whole way of life...


The scout's unlockable were supposed to make the scout more annoying and jarate was intended to be better than both alternatives?

No. Unlockables are intended to be sidegrades which encourage a different style of play.

Yes, exactly. The Sandman and FaN encourage scouts you mess with their opponents, take more advantage of terrain, and be even more annoying to match the voice. The Jarate was designed to encourage more teamplay from the Sniper if they so chose, as opposed to being as far away from the action as possible to avoid getting shot. In that sense, I suppose it would be in Valve's best interest to make Jarate a better weapon than the alternatives, but I still prefer having a gun. Really, I switch sniper's unlockables more than any other class, but I usually use SMG so I don't have to resort to noscope, or jarate+kukri.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Team YuGiOh is still accepting applicants for its exclusive and very prestigious fan club. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OfficialTeamYuGiOhFanclub)

Why do you believe this group is so prestigious (and exclusive... I've seen you whore out this group at least 3 times)? I don't join just any group, you know.

Though I must admit that if the group must give an email to direct any fanmail it might be getting, it surely must be prestigious!

[TheLogman]

I'm pretty sure that's a parody group.

Like a joke?

[Myatar_Panwar]

I'm pretty sure that's a parody group.

Like a joke?

That would make sense I suppose.

If it were funny

[Surrealistik]

I've heard legends about their leader, Captain Skill. Apparently he's some glorious paragon of TF2 ability, a 12-and-a-half-year-old prodigy who leaves everyone in his wake raging and bawling.

Given what a google search has yielded I believe it: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/teamfortress2boa/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-43963195&pid=437678

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-915207.html

http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?p=13064632

[Myatar_Panwar]

Guy kinda sounds like a douche from those links.

[KBF]

So basically he is a decent player who occasionally uses subtle hacks and is generally infamous for being annoying. Why are you glorifying this? I would write the group off as a troll if I hadn't played with you before. Maybe it'd be cool if it was a complicated troll on the annoying guy, but it doesn't look like it.

If it's for the community, I'm fine with GitP's group. And anyone who is cool who isn't GitP is in Chocolate Hammer.

[Surrealistik]

Oh I have no doubt that they're a team of trolls. It pretty much says so in their clan description (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/YuGiBros). Also, check out Skill's own profile (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197964740600). I just think they're funny as hell.

Also, I'm pretty sure the guy doesn't use hacks; he's been playing for awhile, check out his background. Though VAC bans are randomly delayed, they always catch up with you within a month, so either he's also a prodigy at authoring private hacks, or he really is Just That Good. Personally I think it's far more likely people are just responding to superior ability the only way they know how; by crying foul.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Surrealistik you are totally Captain Skill. I thought it was obvious.

[Surrealistik]

Because I get a kick out of this kid?

[Myatar_Panwar]

What I am saying is that you two are the same person. You've linked that group before, Captain Skill is in the GitP group, I've seen him invite people in a similar fashion when invited to group chats, etc....

I'm just sayin, its awfully suspicious.

edit: Also there are far better players to obsess over, so getting a kick out of some trolling kid (there are a million of em) is kinda wierd, unless its yourself, I suppose

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, I can see why you'd be suspicious now that you've filled me in. Does that mean he browses GitP? O_o

Also, aside from pro CEVO players, I really don't know of anyone better than him personally, and skill besides he's pretty lulzy (the pro players I do know are otherwise unremarkable/dull). I don't really 'obsess' over any TF2 player.

[wojonatior]

CAKE!!! It's a complete and total lie.

[Imposter]

This thread moves fast, doesn't it? I would write a long thank you to the various people who replied to my first post, but I'd feel kinda late. So, yeah, thanks.

[Phase]

I would prefer to obsess over Don Newman (pre-fall). My idol as an axe-only pyro, he would devastate enemy teams while wielding only "Betty."

Then he stopped playing for a bit, fell out of practice, and became just another skilled player.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Don Newman..... I think I played with him the other night. ATF servers? I knew I recognized the name somewhere.

[KBF]

I think Don might have just been reached by the rest of the skilled players. You know, everybody got better, he got a bit worse, and now they're both baseline skilled.

That just seems more likely than 'he was literally god at this game, he stopped playing for a bit and got so much worse that now he's just average.'

[Player_Zero]

I would prefer to obsess over Don Newman (pre-fall). My idol as an axe-only pyro, he would devastate enemy teams while wielding only "Betty."
Then he stopped playing for a bit, fell out of practice, and became just another skilled player.

That's not actually possible though. Youtube footage shows him getting one or two kills on gormless players. Even if you're an amazing player you really won't be able to win a game that way.

[Jibar]

Something I was thinking about.
People here have complained before that you should never ever have movement impairment effects in first person shooters and believe that the Sandman is the work of the devil.
Well, what about the special infected in Left 4 Dead? Are they similar sins?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

See, I don't understand the Sandman hate. Sure, it's annoying, and sure, it often leads to you being killed, but it's no less annoying then rounding the corner to find a charging Pyro, walking out and getting a random arrow or well-placed headshot through your skull, running into a revved Heavy, catching a crocket with your face, or standing in the wrong corner when a FaN scout corners your by surprise or a Demoman rains grenades and stickies down on you.

In fact, the Sandman takes more finesse to use properly than most of the above situations, is less fatal (as it's possible you'll walk away if you've got allies around), and happens less often (once every 15 seconds). Why the hate? Why is it so much worse than everything else?

[Player_Zero]

In fact, the Sandman takes more finesse to use properly than most of the above situations, is less fatal (as it's possible you'll walk away if you've got allies around), and happens less often (once every 15 seconds). Why the hate? Why is it so much worse than everything else?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42rn4D78X8A

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42rn4D78X8A

See, that doesn't prove anything...it's just irritating. I'm talking about the ability to hit a given opponent with the Sandman at a given time...something that I've seen tons of Scouts fail at. They all seem to fire randomly, and the ball is easy to dodge. The only time it seems to really work is when they fire into a group...giving the stunned opponent a break as his allies come to his aid...or are accurate and skilled, in which case I'm fine with being paralyzed. I could have dodged, after all.

The penalty for this random chance? Getting killed almost instantly by anything. The Scout's going to spend more time dead from his low hit points then I will because of the Sandman. Seems fair to me.

A counter-argument (which would be perfectly fine) should take the form of something more than a laugh, Zero. :smallbiggrin:

[Player_Zero]

A logical absurdity that contradicts the very basic principles of logic itself needs only a diatribe.

What you mean by 'use effectively' is 'hit with'. Which really isn't very hard, to be quite fair. It's a faster missile than the rocket and has large hit boxes.

Using the sandman does not require skill.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

A logical absurdity that contradicts the very basic principles of logic itself needs only a diatribe.

What you mean by 'use effectively' is 'hit with'. Which really isn't very hard, to be quite fair. It's a faster missile than the rocket and has large hit boxes.

Using the sandman does not require skill.

I'll grant you the "hit with" part. However, I see few enough Sandman hits that I'm still not overly concerned: the Huntsman random deaths, for example, are much more prevalent, and much more fatal. But it is just my opinion.

[Fawkes]

Yeah, I've been using the Sandman a lot recently to go for achievements, and the health penalty is a big deal. One rocket or grenade anywhere near me and I'm toast. And forget about getting away from pyros or heavies.

[Player_Zero]

Well there you are then. The huntsman doesn't require skill either.

But at least I don't have to watch the gormless bugger hold down two buttons after he stuns me for five seconds before I die.

[The Linker]

To be fair, he said the Sandman took more finesse to use than a Pyro that someone else ran around a corner into. :smalltongue:

I find the only thing that makes the Sandman hard to hit with is ping. Even just 50 ping can delay it enough to make your little ball thud into a wall inneffectively as the Soldier turns around and notices you. Grumble.

[Player_Zero]

To be fair, he said the Sandman took more finesse to use than a Pyro that someone else ran around a corner into. :smalltongue:

I find the only thing that makes the Sandman hard to hit with is ping. Even just 50 ping can delay it enough to make your little ball thud into a wall inneffectively as the Soldier turns around and notices you. Grumble.

http://www.wegame.com/watch/TF2_Hitboxes/

With lag compensation on, your rendered model is the target which you will hit.

The only times which lag would be a problem here is when you jump back into synch with the server, as you see happening occasionally, people will appear to stop and then teleport to somewhere else.

[The Linker]

No no, I didn't mean that it'd appear to hit the target, but miss anyway. I meant that it'd take 50 (or however large your ping is) milliseconds longer than it should to fire from the point I press the right-mouse button. Just as with rockets, and any other non-hitscan weapon. And 50 milliseconds later, of course, the Soldier is not exactly in the same spot. :smalltongue:

I mean, a little practice and you can compensate for that, sure. But it'll never be as easy as if you had 5 ping.

[Player_Zero]

No no, I didn't mean that it'd appear to hit the target, but miss anyway. I meant that it'd take 50 (or however large your ping is) milliseconds longer than it should to fire from the point I press the right-mouse button. Just as with rockets, and any other non-hitscan weapon. And 50 milliseconds later, of course, the Soldier is not exactly in the same spot. :smalltongue:

I mean, a little practice and you can compensate for that, sure. But it'll never be as easy as if you had 5 ping.

50 milliseconds later he bloody well is. 50 milliseconds. Your reaction time is likely four times this figure.

[The Linker]

50 milliseconds later he bloody well is. 50 milliseconds. Your reaction time is likely four times this figure.

Mmm... true. I think the actual length of time difference may actually be double the listed ping value -- I think Shamus wrote a whole article on this, and I think he mentioned that it takes that long to send a message to the server and equally that long for the server to get back to you. So the difference might be more like 100 milliseconds.

Of course, that is still a tenth of a second...

Alright, so maybe I don't understand the workings behind it. :smalltongue: All I know is that I do see a noticeable difference between right-click and hitting the ball whenever my ping gets above 50, however long that difference actually is. That's all I mean to say.

[Pie Guy]

So, I got a halo. Why are these hated?

[Player_Zero]

So, I got a halo. Why are these hated?

Because just over half of the active player population used the idler and didn't get one according to some guy on a websiote I can't remember.

Also, there are a number of conceited types who sincerely believe that they make them better than non-behaloed "cheaters". As well as people who don't have halos annoyed by the whole thing. Some medics don't heal people with halos because of it apparently.

[The Linker]

So, I got a halo. Why are these hated?

Because you only get them if you never idled, which Valve claims is cheating. Many players disagree with that, and the way Valve proclaimed it as cheating with no warning, and so every time those players see a halo -- which Valve talked up as a sign of 'taking the moral high road' -- it just looks obnoxious. To the players that idled, I mean. And... other players, I suppose. Lots of people find it obnoxious, I think.

I wouldn't know. I have a halo, but I haven't gotten to see it, because they don't show up on the d20 servers. Because I don't know why.

[chiasaur11]

Because you only get them if you never idled, which Valve claims is cheating. Many players disagree with that, and the way Valve proclaimed it as cheating with no warning, and so every time those players see a halo -- which Valve talked up as a sign of 'taking the moral high road' -- it just looks obnoxious. To the players that idled, I mean. And... other players, I suppose. Lots of people find it obnoxious, I think.

I wouldn't know. I have a halo, but I haven't gotten to see it, because they don't show up on the d20 servers. Because I don't know why.

Simple.

Shamus really, really hates Master Chief.

[Arbitrarity]

Mmm... true. I think the actual length of time difference may actually be double the listed ping value -- I think Shamus wrote a whole article on this, and I think he mentioned that it takes that long to send a message to the server and equally that long for the server to get back to you. So the difference might be more like 100 milliseconds.


Turn down your cl_interp. It affects how fast non-hitscan weapons "fire". It does, however, make enemies "jerk" if you have high ping or the server lags horribly.

[Dread Cthulhu]

Partly because I think it looks ugly, and partly because almost everyone is wearing it right now, I have one but don't wear it. Though watching Spies wander around with it on oblivious is hilarious.

I had an idea the other day, but I figured I'll test it out here before I mention it on the Steam forums. Incidentally, I saw your stuff, Djinn. Looks awesome.

So anyway; what if the unlockables could have different colourings or different designs? The two ways I imagine it working would either getting a drop of, say, an Ambassador which was blue OR the game dropping the colour for the item rather than the item itself. I can imagine the former coming with crazy type collections, but it would fill up backpacks really really quickly. The latter would appear in a new loadout option screen called 'Colour' under 'Head' and 'Misc', and wouldn't take up inventory room.

These would drop as frequently as items themselves. You would only get colours for items you had, to prevent a sort of 'Oh GREAT, a pink ubersaw colouring, if only I HAD ONE!' mentality.

[wojonatior]

CAKE!!! It's a complete and total lie.

I am surprised nobody found my hidden text, considering the minimum is 10 characters per message.

[Zweanslord]

Sometimes, the cake is just a cake. (http://nerfnow.com/comic/176)

That comic link seems appropriate as response. :smalltongue:

[The Linker]

I am surprised nobody found my hidden text, considering the minimum is 10 characters per message.

...I did find it. What was I supposed to do? Quote it just so I could say "I found white text, you sneaky bugger!"? Lots of people put white text in. :smalltongue:

And yeah, I looked for the white text because I knew the message was too short. I still don't know what you wanted me to do with it. :smalltongue:

[Mc. Lovin']

Hey I found it too! I didn't want to call you up on how poor the hiding of your test was, it looked like you tried really hard. Plus, you know, it was a "Cake is a Lie" joke. I don't think any variant of that 'joke' hasn't been done yet.

[chiasaur11]

Hey I found it too! I didn't want to call you up on how poor the hiding of your test was, it looked like you tried really hard. Plus, you know, it was a "Cake is a Lie" joke. I don't think any variant of that 'joke' hasn't been done yet.

Yeah.

I mean, even joking about how it isn't a new joke anymore is an old joke by now.

Randall Munroe got the honor of the last humorous joke on the subject until Portal 2 comes out.

[Jibar]

*face in hands again*

Dear D20 Players.

I am sorry that the sky is so appealing. I am sorry that it takes me above you lofty mortals. I'm sorry that you are so unsuspecting.

And I am furious at where all these skyboxes are!

[Faulty]

*face in hands again*

Dear D20 Players.

I am sorry that the sky is so appealing. I am sorry that it takes me above you lofty mortals. I'm sorry that you are so unsuspecting.

And I am furious at where all these skyboxes are!

You have an addiction Jibar. This is an intervention.

[onasuma]

Who finally has their own hat? I finally have my own hat.

[wojonatior]

Yea, I know it has been done before, I just couldn't think of anything else to say, so I threw it out there.

[Volug]

Well I saw a nice cheep pack of "Scary" games called Penumbra, all 3 for $20.

Just bought them with my birthday money, plan on playing all night. Don't know what it's like, guess I'll find out.

[wojonatior]

Happy Late Birthday!!!

[Dread Cthulhu]

Who finally has their own hat? I finally have my own hat.

I do not. But I look forward to getting one. Which one have you got?

On the subject of unlocks, I think people missed the idea I posted near the bottom of the last page. It was overshadowed by wojonatior going all 'just as planned' on us.

[Jibar]

You have an addiction Jibar. This is an intervention.

I can quit when I like damnit!
Man I wanna be pulled over in midair by a soldier for drink flying.

Actually, you left before Jeremy started lecturing me on the differences between one bomb and two.

[Mc. Lovin']

Who finally has their own hat? I finally have my own hat.

Which one O?

[Ziren]

The "Play Doctor"-achievement is getting on my nerves. I qualified for it at least ten times, but I never got it.

[Fawkes]

Which one is that?

[Nano]

Doktor Heavy prescribes Sandviches. Many Sandviches.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Well I saw a nice cheep pack of "Scary" games called Penumbra, all 3 for $20.

Just bought them with my birthday money, plan on playing all night. Don't know what it's like, guess I'll find out.

Very atmospheric game. I've only watched people play it, so I cannot comment on some things, but....

I hope you like spiders.

ALSO Overture is the first game in the series. Just thought Id throw that out there, cause I don't think the pack is too specific.

[Rutskarn]

Simple.

Shamus really, really hates Master Chief.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/djransom/BooThisMan.gif

[Phase]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/djransom/BooThisMan.gif

Geez, we need to keep this one on backlog, it's seen so much use.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, one of my friends PM'd me

"Hey shadow me and the brindles are playing L4D. You may think it stands for Left 4 Dead but it's actually Left 4 Drunk. It's a drinking game. You have to take a drink every time you get hit by a special infected."

[KBF]

So.. If you are taking the drink while one of your allies gets it off, and another one hits you while you are essentially AFK, do you stop and take another drink or do you just take a longer drink?

[shadow_archmagi]

So.. If you are taking the drink while one of your allies gets it off, and another one hits you while you are essentially AFK, do you stop and take another drink or do you just take a longer drink?

I don't know I joined late so they were too drunk to rules lawyer

[The Linker]

I don't know I joined late so they were too drunk to rules lawyer

That is so totally win. :smallbiggrin:

[wojonatior]

Wow...Just...Wow...

[Rutskarn]

Oh yeah, Shadow, I never did get around to apologizing. When I reviewed the demo for our little Powerstation run, there was a part where I sort of snarked at you for hanging back while Phase and I went toe-to-toe with scads of special infected.

Little did I know that you were, in fact, going Simo Hayha on their undead arses.

[Fawkes]

Anyone here familiar with Trine? I saw Yahtzee's review, and I thought it looked kinda cool. I was thinking about buying it on Steam.

[Player_Zero]

Anyone here familiar with Trine? I saw Yahtzee's review, and I thought it looked kinda cool. I was thinking about buying it on Steam.

Did Yahtzee say it was good? Because if so it's gotta be bad.

[chiasaur11]

Did Yahtzee say it was good? Because if so it's gotta be bad.

Like Psychonauts and Portal?

[Player_Zero]

Like Psychonauts and Portal?

The exception that proves the rule!

[KBF]

No no no.. How you tell if a game might be good from one of Yahtzee's reviews without him saying it's good (those ones are always good) is that he says it's mind numbingly dull and bad. Like The World Ends With You and.. Umm... All the other crappy games he reviews, if you happen to actually enjoy them I guess.

I'm still pretty mad about that The World Ends With You review though. Screw you Yahtzee.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Anyone here familiar with Trine? I saw Yahtzee's review, and I thought it looked kinda cool. I was thinking about buying it on Steam.

Trine is very fun. But short (don't have an exact number, but like 6 hours sticks out in my mind).

Although I don't regret my purchase at all, I would suggest trying out the demo. Even better, wait for a sale then try a demo. Trying a demo first won't work at all... It would be all like

"Aww yeah im just going to try out this game to see if I will want to buy it when it goes on sa- HOLY **** THIS IS AWESOME BUYING NAOW"

Maybe an overeaction, but that was basically what I thought when I tried it out. And something to mention: That awesome from the demo doesn't really go away. It just keeps being awesome. Some people didn't like the last level, as it was pretty different from the rest of the game, but I didn't have much issue with it.

[The Linker]

Although I don't regret my purchase at all, I would suggest trying out the demo. Even better, wait for a sale then try a demo. Trying a demo first won't work at all... It would be all like

"Aww yeah im just going to try out this game to see if I will want to buy it when it goes on sa- HOLY **** THIS IS AWESOME BUYING NAOW"

Well, it is on sale for five bucks now. I suspect that's why Mechafox brought it up. :smalltongue:

[Myatar_Panwar]

I don't think we are looking at the same game.

edit: Hrm, I never did finish Braid on the 360, and $5 isn't too much to drop for a PC version.... grglrghh

[The Linker]

I don't think we are looking at the same game.

edit: Hrm, I never did finish Braid on the 360, and $5 isn't too much to drop for a PC version.... grglrghh

...Oh, right. The other five-letter mystical puzzle game. My bad. :smallredface:

I played the demos for both Trine and Braid. I liked Trine better, but it's much more expensive, right? 30 bucks, from what I can remember. Mebbe I'll wait for a sale. It was totally awesome, but I'm not sure about 30-dollar-awesome.

[NeoVid]

Heh. Yahtzee's review of Braid was memorable for his complaint about how much he hated the two identical doors that gave you no clue which to open, when that was a puzzle. That he failed so miserably he never even realized it was a puzzle.

[AgentPaper]

Eh, just downloaded the trial for Trine and tried it out, frankly I was unimpressed. Nothing really special, none of the puzzles were very interesting, and the grapple system was terrible. Maybe the rest of the game is leagues better, but there's not much to the demo, at least.

Braid I loved. It was one of my favorite games, and definitely my absolute favorite puzzle game, beaten perhaps by portal, but I don't think you can put them both in quite the same category, really. One thing Yahtzee was right about was the artsy-overtones, which were a bit overbearing, especially at the end. (though the last level was so many kinds of awesome) And yeah, I thought that puzzle was just random and arbitrary, but it makes sense if you think about it. Going left makes you go back in time, so if you start on the right of the door and then try to go through it, the door will lock as you start to do so. Which, of course just means you have to go in through the other side. :smallwink:

[Player_Zero]

Heh. Yahtzee's review of Braid was memorable for his complaint about how much he hated the two identical doors that gave you no clue which to open, when that was a puzzle. That he failed so miserably he never even realized it was a puzzle.

How could two identical doors, giving you no clue on which to open, be a puzzle?

A puzzle has to have some clues.

[Thanatos 51-50]

That was the point of the complaint in the review.

[Fawkes]

I don't remember that puzzle. Where in the game was that?

[chiasaur11]

I don't remember that puzzle. Where in the game was that?

Braid.

Two doors, one timelocked key, one door opened, one didn't.

Clever underlying principles, poor explanation for that particular puzzle.

[chiasaur11]

New development in Left 4 Dead 2 scandal:

Valve brings leaders of boycott to corporate headquarters.

Leaders agree to drop boycott on grounds of game being awesome and new content continuing for first Left 4 Dead.

Leaders called sell outs.

Valve boycotts a user made mod. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/09/11/the-boycott-joes-l4d-map-campaign/#more-17564)

[Fawkes]

Wait, was this in the area where walking to the left turns time backward? Well of course that door's not going to work!

[Kyouhen]

New development in Left 4 Dead 2 scandal:

Valve brings leaders of boycott to corporate headquarters.

Leaders agree to drop boycott on grounds of game being awesome and new content continuing for first Left 4 Dead.

Leaders called sell outs.

Valve boycotts a user made mod. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/09/11/the-boycott-joes-l4d-map-campaign/#more-17564)

And this is why we all love Valve. :smallbiggrin:

[Joran]

New development in Left 4 Dead 2 scandal:

Valve brings leaders of boycott to corporate headquarters.

Leaders agree to drop boycott on grounds of game being awesome and new content continuing for first Left 4 Dead.

Leaders called sell outs.

Valve boycotts a user made mod. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/09/11/the-boycott-joes-l4d-map-campaign/#more-17564)

So, wait... If I complain loud enough and hard enough, they'll give me an all expenses paid trip to Valve HQ? Quick, someone give me something to complain to Valve about!

[Myatar_Panwar]

Eh, just downloaded the trial for Trine and tried it out, frankly I was unimpressed. Nothing really special, none of the puzzles were very interesting, and the grapple system was terrible. Maybe the rest of the game is leagues better, but there's not much to the demo, at least.

The game really doesn't have a lot of difficult puzzles and such. Its more about the overall experience in the end. Although yeah, if you didn't like the demo, the game probably isn't for you.



Braid I loved. It was one of my favorite games, and definitely my absolute favorite puzzle game, beaten perhaps by portal, but I don't think you can put them both in quite the same category, really.

Heh, maybe we are just at odds here. Although I thought Braid was kind of neat, and I always wanted to like it (because everyone else did), I could never really get into it.

[LurkerInPlayground]

See, I don't understand the Sandman hate. Sure, it's annoying, and sure, it often leads to you being killed, but it's no less annoying then rounding the corner to find a charging Pyro, walking out and getting a random arrow or well-placed headshot through your skull, running into a revved Heavy, catching a crocket with your face, or standing in the wrong corner when a FaN scout corners your by surprise or a Demoman rains grenades and stickies down on you.
That's exactly the problem. It adds more obnoxious ways to die to spam. It doesn't contribute anything more than frustration. It's also effectively a one-shot sniper shot on a scout. Scouts were powerful enough pre-update, as I'd easily place them in a top tier near the Soldier.


In fact, the Sandman takes more finesse to use properly than most of the above situations, is less fatal (as it's possible you'll walk away if you've got allies around), and happens less often (once every 15 seconds). Why the hate? Why is it so much worse than everything else?
No it's not worse. But it exists. And I'd question whether it requires more finesse. You're either aiming it or semi-spamming it like a Huntsman or the pipe bombs. Just because it has one shot with a long cooldown doesn't make it require more finesse.

[NeoVid]

How could two identical doors, giving you no clue on which to open, be a puzzle?

A puzzle has to have some clues.

Because on the level that puzzle appears, the trick to the level is that going right advances time, and walking left turns time backward. So, open the wrong door, try to walk left through it, and it reverts to when it was closed and locked.

[Arbitrarity]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/08/14/all-the-fear-of-the-fair-new-l4d2-campaign/

Nice information on the GTtv episode.
TF2 comic?! :smalltongue:

[Jahkaivah]

Wait, was this in the area where walking to the left turns time backward? Well of course that door's not going to work!

Of course it isn't, just some people didn't think that bit through, thankfully I had already heard about that little gem by the time I got round to playing Braid so I saved myself the possibility of feeling stupid.

To be fair to Yahtzee though, Blow didn't have to put two doors there. He obviously did so to trip people up and force them to re-do the puzzle so Yahtzee's actual criticism is kinda right. Then of course, there's the stars:

I mean, if Yahtzee complained about a puzzle whereby failure requires you to restart the level wait till learns about a puzzle which requires you to restart the game and a puzzle which requires you to wait around for two freaking hours.

But don't mind the above insanity though, Braid is still an awesome awesome game and well worth getting :smallbiggrin:

[Fawkes]

I agree that the stars were completely ridiculous, however, they weren't necessary to complete the game, giving only an optional bonus alternate ending.

God, I hated getting all those stars. Should have just looked it up on youtube.

As for having to "redo" the door puzzle, it didn't really set you back very far. You just had to exit the room and come back in, right?

[Rutskarn]

That was great. On Junction, someone asked why Phase was named Lover of the Russian Queen. "Like, since when does Russia have a queen?"

I say, "Let me explain. You see, there was a certain man, in Russia long ago..."

Phase said, "No, no, you're not telling it right!"

"Oh. You want to tell it?"

Phase proceeds to throw in Rasputin, by Boney M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDMlk3kSYg). There is much rejoicing.

As the song nears its conclusion, I switch to Engy, dash towards the door, and spot a wounded medic with a full uber. "Medic!" I shout. "Hit me! Now! Now!"

He grabs me. Together, we race into the thick of combat, dodging bullets and gouts of flame. The song reaches its final chorus.

"Hit it!" I yell.

He hits the uber, and I launch into my engy dance, jiving and clapping in perfect synch with the beats. A pyro noses over, curious...the song is nearly over...the uber is nearly spent.

The pyro switches to the flaregun.

As the note reaches its last notes and the uber is drained, he pulls off a perfectly-timed hadoken.

It lands exactly as Boney says the last phrase.

[The Demented One]

Hey guys? I'm an utter newcomer, seduced to the dark, seamy underbelly of Steam by the roguish wiles of one dashingly handsome Krimm Blackleaf. And yet, he has loved me and left me, and now I sit alone, in front of a computer, with no Team Fortress 2 to play. And so I come before you all, my body naked, my modesty ravished, my very soul bared, to implore you for help.

The facts were these:

• I'm running Team Fortress 2 on a Macbook, via Crossover.

• The game works perfectly normally–but when I go to find a server, no matter how long I wait, nothing ever shows up. I'm not sure if I'm actually supposed to do something here, or if they normally just pop up automatically, but absolutely nothing comes up, no matter how long it refreshes for.

• I'm at a university, using their wireless. The Steam site says this might be an issue; I'm trying to get in touch with someone with power to open ports.

Do any of the fine Valvologists of GitP have any advice?

[Arbitrarity]

TF2 should run on macbook w/crossover, assuming 6.2 or up. The problem then, is ports.

Are you patched to most recent version?
If so, then you need ports open, detailed here. (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8571-GLVN-8711)

[The Demented One]

TF2 should run on macbook w/crossover, assuming 6.2 or up. The problem then, is ports.

Are you patched to most recent version?
If so, then you need ports open, detailed here. (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8571-GLVN-8711)
Cool, as I suspected. Now, to persuade the university to open them...

[Arbitrarity]

That may be a problem. :smallannoyed:

You did pick up the entire Orange Box, right? Play portal while you wait :smalltongue:

[The Demented One]

That may be a problem. :smallannoyed:

You did pick up the entire Orange Box, right? Play portal while you wait :smalltongue:
Nope, just TF2. Already played through Portal...meh.

So far, the response I've gotten is "Thank you for your e-mail to the wireless queue. We will take your recommendation into consideration during the installation of new wireless access points." Wheeee.

[chiasaur11]

Nope, just TF2. Already played through Portal...meh.


Meh?

MEH?

Well...

You could get episode 1 or 2 and play some Minerva. Always fun.

[The Demented One]

Meh?

MEH?

Well...

You could get episode 1 or 2 and play some Minerva. Always fun.
The "meh" was directed towards my situation, not Portal itself. I think I'm going to just go see 9 instead.

[Jahkaivah]

You could try joining a server via console, probably wont work but worth a try.

Open up console with ` (may have to enable it in advanced contols), and type... say "connect 66.55.158.200" without quotations, that should connect you to the 20-sided chaotic server.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Nope, just TF2. Already played through Portal...meh.

So far, the response I've gotten is "Thank you for your e-mail to the wireless queue. We will take your recommendation into consideration during the installation of new wireless access points." Wheeee.
What's wrong with ethernet cables?

[The Demented One]

What's wrong with ethernet cables?
A lack of currently having then. Guess it'll have to wait till tomorrow.

[Rutskarn]

That seems to be the situation.

If it's any consolation, TF2 is awesome and you're totally missing out.

[The Demented One]

That seems to be the situation.

If it's any consolation, TF2 is awesome and you're totally missing out.
I'm going to gut you like a Cornish game hen.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I'm going to gut you like a Cornish game hen.
Down boy. That's my job.

[Rutskarn]

Spinning around in my office chair and randomly lighting my furniture on fire it is, then.

[Player_Zero]

ur all magets

[LurkerInPlayground]

ur all magets
no ur mom noob

[Player_Zero]

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3318/magetru6pb3.jpg

Quand l'appétit va, tout va!

[Rutskarn]

That might be the most shockingly badly-drawn comic I've ever seen, which leads me to suspect that it's intentionally so.

[Player_Zero]

That might be the most shockingly badly-drawn comic I've ever seen, which leads me to suspect that it's intentionally so.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. You've once again seen through the clever ruse of blinding appearance.

[Rutskarn]

Yet another case to publish in the No S*** Files.

[Player_Zero]

Indeed.


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8757/1198729357876kp4.png

[chiasaur11]

You know, that one's first panel has a certain stylistic appeal absent from the rest of the work.

[Rutskarn]

Now that one I like.

[Player_Zero]

Whenever I say 'maget' I'm thinking about the expression in the 7th panel.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Indeed.


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8757/1198729357876kp4.png
This was painfully true way back before the Pyro got his damage upgrade. You know. Back in the day when Pyros were still laughably underpowered.

[Player_Zero]

Well excuuuuse me. Next time I laugh at a comic I'll make sure it's topical.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Well excuuuuse me. Next time I laugh at a comic I'll make sure it's topical.
You kids and your fancy schmancy airblasts and axestinguishers have it easy.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I was thinking. Why not make a spy watch like this:

Phase-Hologram Watch
- The watch holds eight seconds of charge.
- Picking up metal only restores charge at 50% of the exchange value. A full crate restores 4 seconds of charge. A half crate restores 2 seconds. And so on.
- The watch can only be activated when the wearer is in an enemy disguise. The watch deactivates automatically the moment the player changes to a friendly disguise.
- The watch prevents the spy from giving off colored smoke and holographic glitches when he changes between enemy disguises.
- When activated, the watch causes weapon fire to pass harmlessly through the Spy. He is also able to walk through enemy players and buildings as though he were a member of their team. However, as with the other watches, he is unable to attack while the watch is active.
- If the watch deactivates inside of an enemy player or building, the Spy is shunted into the nearest open space with an audible cracking noise.
- Deactivating the watch within an open space makes no noise at all.

Basically, it's a watch that makes disguises and acting more viable. Since the Dead Ringer makes the Spy close to invulnerable anyway . . .

Also, Spies totally need grappling hooks to get into high places. The Spy's "rocket jump" if you will.

[Player_Zero]

Because that would be grossly unbalanced.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Because that would be grossly unbalanced.
Meh. Dead Ringer already makes a Spy that plays conservatively pretty damn close to invulnerable anyway. His cloak is nearly impossible to notice and he gets a freebie "death" nearly every time he touches metal. However, most players who use the watch have trouble actually getting anything useful accomplished.

Spy conscious players will still notice members of their own team who aren't actually doing anything. And Spies that charge your frontlines (as with the Dead Ringer) are still painfully obvious.

But fine, make it so that metal cannot recharge the watch and it still recharges at a rate commensurate with the Invisibility Watch. Or stick in a subtle popping noise when it deactivates. Even with metal recharge functions, 4 seconds off a full crate of metal won't really stop a persistent spychecker. It only buys a little time once they've started gunning for you and can see exactly where you are the whole time.

But whatever.

Also. Grappling hooks.

[Player_Zero]

You know what else grants complete invulnerability for eight seconds?

Personal ubers, woo! Maybe we should get the soldier, demo and heavy one after they get so many kills!

It wouldn't promote play, or rather, a playstyle. It would promote ******* richarding around.

Just doesn't make sense to me. Hardly any decent spies use the dead ringer as it is, why would they bother with this?

Edit: no, spellchecker, that's not a swearword. You are a stupid program.

[LurkerInPlayground]

You know what else grants complete invulnerability for eight seconds?

Personal ubers, woo! Maybe we should get the soldier, demo and heavy one after they get so many kills!

It wouldn't promote play, or rather, a playstyle. It would promote ******* richarding around.

Just doesn't make sense to me. Hardly any decent spies use the dead ringer as it is, why would they bother with this?

Edit: no, spellchecker, that's not a swearword. You are a stupid program.
I'll assume that by "richarding around," you're referring to what most players that get their hands on a Dead Ringer do. And bluntly, a lot of players get flak from their pals for screwing around like that.

And it's not really at the level of a personal Uber since the point of an Uber is to give you the ability to attack things without being attacked back. On that token, Spies can't attack while cloaked or with the DR active, so I can't see why it would be any different for this watch.

Remember, I also attached a clause that says that the "phasing" won't work if you are not wearing an enemy disguise. If his disguise drops, he has to wait a few seconds before he can activate his watch again.

Of course, now it occurs to me that the watch would have sapper-spamming problems.

But there's an easy fixes for that: Using the sapper drops your disguise while you are wearing the watch. Or it reduces sapper damage by 50%. Simple.

[Rutskarn]

Both of you

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3503/magets.png
are magets.

EDIT: Oh-kay, that's a bit bigger than I wanted. Spoilered.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Spoiler tags on that please.

You made the bottom scroll bar longer than it needed to be.

You are worse than Hitler.

[Rutskarn]

Spoiler tags on that please.

You made the bottom scroll bar longer than it needed to be.

You are worse than Hitler.

Way ahead of you, chief. Or at least a couple seconds ahead of you. Also, since it's so big you can clearly see my obvious mistakes in coloring it. Foo.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Way ahead of you, chief. Or at least a couple seconds ahead of you.
You're still worse than Hitler.

[chiasaur11]

You're still worse than Hitler.

What about robostalin?

[Rutskarn]

Right, here's a better one.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5044/magets2.png

And by "better", I mean I shrunk it down until my gross errors and cantbearseditudity are hidden.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Phase-Hologram Watch (revised)
- The watch holds eight seconds of charge.
- Picking up metal only restores charge at 50% of the normal exchange value. A full ammo pack restores 4 seconds of charge (50%), a half pack restores 2 seconds (25%) and so on. The watch's passive recharge occurs at a rate commensurate with that of the Invisibility Watch.
- While wearing the watch, using the Sapper drops your disguise.
- The watch can only be activated when the wearer is in an enemy disguise.
- When activated, the watch causes weapon fire to pass harmless.

Note: A Spy is very vulnerable after a backstab, since he has to wait for his disguise to go back up before he can "phase" again.

[Rutskarn]

Yeah, that could work. Wouldn't be good for competitive play, mind, but for screwing around it might be diverting.

Also: just realized I forgot the damn bloodstains. That was almost the whole point of the image.

EDIT: Well, I didn't just go completely overboard.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5011/maget3.png

Part of me thinks it's creepier, part of me thinks it's just funnier, part of me thinks it's funnier to the point where it's kind of creepier. Part of me just thinks it's pointless.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Yeah, that could work. Wouldn't be good for competitive play, mind, but for screwing around it might be diverting.
Yeah, but the TF2 isn't a really good competitive game anyway.

It also occurs to me the metal recharge clause is unnecessary. Waiting for several seconds for your protection to pop back online, after you've done anything, is an agonizing enough drawback already.

The watch makes you invulnerable but makes getting backstabs much riskier. Chain stabs are likely to get you killed unless you wipe out all substantial threats immediately. Single stabs are riskier depending on whether or not there are any particularly dangerous classes around.

And either way, you're never firing your weapon and can never go invisible to throw off pursuers.

As for the blood, I'm not particularly fond of it because it looks inked on and kind of ruins the portrait. I like the other version better.

[Volug]

Well I just played a 5 hour game of L4D with 7 other friends.

On Xboxs... Using LAN.

To be honest, the controls annoyed me, hunters are much harder to play as and I already suck as them ._.

Though I took a lot of video and I had great funs, makes me wish my computer was good enough to play it T_T

[Jahkaivah]

Phase-Hologram Watch (revised)
- The watch holds eight seconds of charge.
- Picking up metal only restores charge at 50% of the normal exchange value. A full ammo pack restores 4 seconds of charge (50%), a half pack restores 2 seconds (25%) and so on. The watch's passive recharge occurs at a rate commensurate with that of the Invisibility Watch.
- While wearing the watch, using the Sapper drops your disguise.
- The watch can only be activated when the wearer is in an enemy disguise.
- When activated, the watch causes weapon fire to pass harmless.



I think Tom beat you to that idea Lurker. (http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2008-05-31-team-fortress-2-unlockable-ideas) :smalltongue:

Assuming additional balances (I'd recommend only being able to run through enemies, damage absorbtion only worked with the Dead Ringer as you couldn't easily switch it off without completely giving yourself away when near the enemy) the one thing I will say about it is that it removes those givens players always had when finding Spies, you would often try shooting/colliding with players to confirm they were/weren't Spies, players don't want the permanant paranoia of knowing that no longer confirms they aren't spies.

That said, I would love to see it in game anyhow.

Either that, or a watch that stops you from catching on fire would be nice. Though I heard that Valve was already experimenting with something like that.

[Dogmantra]

Either that, or a watch that stops you from catching on fire would be nice. Though I heard that Valve was already experimenting with something like that.

Two suits that replace the revolver. One that means you take 90% damage from flames, and another that means you're immune to catching on fire. Still, I'd say that's too much of a sacrifice.

[Rutskarn]

I tend to agree. Usually, by the time a Pyro's on your tail it's like a great big beacon to all of your teammates saying, "Hey, this guy's a spy, you morons! Quit screwing around and kill him!"

I guess maybe if you don't ignite, it'll look like you're just another bloke getting spychecked...

Wait a minute. Actually, I take it back. That's no good at all. Dammit, now Pyros have to screw around with shotguns and fireaxes to spycheck. It just complicates the process.

Yeah, okay, I'm suddenly not liking this change.

[Faulty]

Any competent Pyro (i.e., one who isn't wielding the Backburner), can just airblast you to see if you're a Spy, then give you a face full of shotgun buck.

[Rutskarn]

Actually, I wonder if you can still tell that they're taking damage, even if they don't ignite.

[Jahkaivah]

I tend to agree. Usually, by the time a Pyro's on your tail it's like a great big beacon to all of your teammates saying, "Hey, this guy's a spy, you morons! Quit screwing around and kill him!"

I guess maybe if you don't ignite, it'll look like you're just another bloke getting spychecked...

Wait a minute. Actually, I take it back. That's no good at all. Dammit, now Pyros have to screw around with shotguns and fireaxes to spycheck. It just complicates the process.

Yeah, okay, I'm suddenly not liking this change.

It depends, I doubt it will give Spies both flame resistance and non-flammability meaning flamethrowers will either still work for tagging spies or work for taking them out close range.

[Dogmantra]

What I gathered was either that you'd take 90% damage from flames and being on fire, but you'd still go up in flames, or that you could be immune to burning but you'd take full damage from flames anyway.

[Jahkaivah]

Any competent Pyro (i.e., one who isn't wielding the Backburner), can just airblast you to see if you're a Spy, then give you a face full of shotgun buck.

It's mainly so that Spies have a easier time escaping and don't get caught so much by FIRESPAM.

[Rutskarn]

It depends, I doubt it will give Spies both flame resistance and non-flammability meaning flamethrowers will either still work for tagging spies or work for taking them out close range.

Yeah, I get that. Still.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Two suits that replace the revolver. One that means you take 90% damage from flames, and another that means you're immune to catching on fire. Still, I'd say that's too much of a sacrifice.
I'd say it's situational.

I can seem myself using it during endgame or the early game of some payload maps. Especially if there are a lot of Pyro's around.

Also, spychecking with the shotgun is not hard. Spies go down in about ~3 blasts. Give or take a blast. Few Spies are going to want to hold still long enough to let you do that.

And most Spies probably won't hold still long enough for a Pyro to spycheck for several seconds. Catching on fire or no, Spies don't have enough health to be effective even if they survive that.

What the suit *does* do is prevent the occasional and brief tag being a death sentence. It just lowers the Spy's profile overall and makes him sneakier.

[Myatar_Panwar]

It makes a distinct sound when you sear flesh. So yes, you would still be able to tell if it is a spy or not.

[Fawkes]

I'll probably only use it if they attach achievements to it.

[Rutskarn]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm-a hankerin' for some Versus. Who's in the mood for a GitP only Versus game? Or else, GitP versus Random Clueless Pubbies?

[LurkerInPlayground]

I think Tom beat you to that idea Lurker. (http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2008-05-31-team-fortress-2-unlockable-ideas) :smalltongue:

Assuming additional balances (I'd recommend only being able to run through enemies, damage absorbtion only worked with the Dead Ringer as you couldn't easily switch it off without completely giving yourself away when near the enemy) the one thing I will say about it is that it removes those givens players always had when finding Spies, you would often try shooting/colliding with players to confirm they were/weren't Spies, players don't want the permanant paranoia of knowing that no longer confirms they aren't spies.

That said, I would love to see it in game anyhow.

Either that, or a watch that stops you from catching on fire would be nice. Though I heard that Valve was already experimenting with something like that.
He's rather sparse on the specifics. His reason for the watch is to get through crossfire. This is incorrect. Skilled Spies can use any watch to get through crossfire. It's mostly a matter of timing and patience.

My reason for the watch is simply to make disguises a more viable illusion. It also renders spychecking somewhat less useful. It's a *good* thing when the other team has to guess at whether or not somebody is a Spy and can't rely on instantly winning by spamming at everything in sight.

I'd actually buff the watch like this:

Phase-Hologram Watch (revised)
- The watch holds eight seconds of charge.
- Picking up metal restores half the normal charge (i.e. a full ammo pack restores 50% of the meter)
- While wearing the watch, using the Sapper drops your disguise.
- The watch can only be activated when the wearer is in an enemy disguise.
- When activated, the watch causes weapon fire to pass harmlessly through the Spy and allows him to walk through enemy players and buildings. Effects that would normally juggle or push the Spy do not affect him while the watch is active.
- Deactivating the watch makes a subtle popping noise. Deactivating the watch within an enemy player or building shunts you to the nearest open space.
- While the watch is activated, mouse 1 causes you to fire illusory projectiles or swing your disguise's melee weapon. These illusions do no damage and make no sound when those illusions "impact" a wall, a building or another player. Illusory stickies look ghostly to the friendly team and can be "destroyed" but the Spy cannot fake detonations.

The reason I can justify the buff is that it takes several seconds to put your disguise on after you've sapped, stabbed or shot anything.

That means that while you can run around with relative impunity, any action you commit to is far and away riskier. Making a stab means that your protections are disabled for several seconds. Sapping things must be decisive or you're dead meat. You can't keep deactivating-sap-reactivate the watch without paying a high price for doing so.

You are also *very easy* to track down. All the current watches allow you to evade tracking by turning invisible. With this watch, you are always 100% visible. And you can't rely entirely on metal to give you enough of a boost to throw off pursuers. An extra 4 seconds from a full metal pack is sometimes not enough when their team can see you the entire time.

Moreover, using slower disguises is a less efficient use of your disguise. Namely, you can back pedal away from your team's advance in a Soldier disguise while hurling illusory rockets. But you won't get very far.

[Dread Cthulhu]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm-a hankerin' for some Versus. Who's in the mood for a GitP only Versus game? Or else, GitP versus Random Clueless Pubbies?

I fully support this product or event.

EDIT: Also, could someone drop me an invite to the Steam group? This is me. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/cthulhunest)

[Dogmantra]

So uh...

A little TF2 tidbit I found that's totally not my work. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYL8il9y41U)

Though really, I am sorry for the terrible singing, bad writing, bad joke and the fact that there's no image. It was just an idea that I had from something Rutsky said on Chaotic earlier.

[Rutskarn]

It wasn't my I'm RED, if you are BLU you will die, if you are BLU you will etc joke, was it? I roll that out whenever I think there's a chance nobody on the server's heard it yet.