Civilization 4: BtS succession game

[happyturtle]

The play by email civ 4 game seems dead since Lord Herman's computer is back in the shop.

Anyone want to try a succession game?


Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played|
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95|136-145
2|Murska|31-50|96-105|146-155
3|Winthur|51-65|106-115|156-165
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|116-125|
5|Selrahc|76-85|126-135|




Round 1: 30 turns
Round 2: 20 turns
Round 3: 15 turns
Rounds 4 and subsequent: 10 turns

[Murska]

:smallbiggrin: I'm in.

[Winthur]

If you allow me to do so, I will gladly force the AIs to kiss my Monarch level. :smallwink:

But I will play on lower levels for some relaxation and maybe guidelines to other players, too.

Or maybe some light-hearted variant. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Eep... Monarch? :smalleek: I haven't won a game past Noble yet

But yeah... what options do people want? And what leader?

[Winthur]

I haven't won a game past Noble yet

Well, for how the things are standing, I could be this group's Master Yoda of sorts. :smallwink: I'm fine with lower difficulty.

But yeah... what options do people want?
I'm fine with anything.

And what leader?
People playing Civ4 tend to be a little too absorbed with "cookie-cutter" traits that are considered widely by them to be the best.
I don't believe the traits are out of balance with each other (with the exception of Protective, which is pretty much useless, unless you're playing Multiplayer), so we can have a lot of fun experimenting. I love to use Creative and Spiritual, and I rank them pretty highly on my "favourite traits" list. Organized is also pretty underrated. Imperialistic and Expansive hit you off to a fast start, where you will have plenty of workers and cities in no time (in fact, IMP and EXP are among the best Multiplayer traits). Charismatic is fun. Aggressive is good if we'd like to take over the world (OF COURSE!). Philosophical helps in many different aspects - your first GP will be that much faster and your GP Farm that much more effective. It's useful when a start is poor (Super Science City, anyone?)

I'd vote against Financial; everyone seems to love this trait. It's powerful, but it's not imbalanced. It's simply a lot easier to use Financial than, for example, Spiritual; in order to reap benefits from Spiritual, you need religions (for Temples) and Civics to swap, plus some micromanagement so your empire always has the best Civic mix ever. It helps diplomacy a lot, too. Financial, on the other hand, is pretty much "you must construct additional cottages". Since Succession Games are as much "fun" as they're "learning experiences", I'd say we take someone whose traits are more than meets the eye.

Oh, and maybe the Unique Unit choice should be also leveraged with this in mind. :smallwink:

[Muz]

*raises hand* Silly question time: What's a "succession" game? :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Sure. I had sort of gotten into a rut with culture wins, usually with Saladin or Ghandi, so any sort of change up sounds good. I know Murska is the warmonger type.

[Winthur]

A "Succession Game" is a game in which a few players play in the same game, using the same civilization; one player plays a set number of turns and gives the save to another player in the roster. In the interturn, the group discusses the outcome of the game and plans their next moves. (this is where the "succession" part comes in; it's something to the effect of the current player ruling for a while, abdicating and his successor inheriting his power.)


I know Murska is the warmonger type.

Really?
I hope he doesn't proxy 2 Gate all the time. :smalltongue:

[Muz]

Sounds fun. I should probably bow out of this one, though, given my geographical distance and just the amount of free time I have lately. :smallsmile:

[Winthur]

I should probably bow out of this one, though, given my geographical distance

What? :smallconfused:
I understand the thing about not having enough free time, but what would geographical distance have to do with it? :smalltongue: You simply wait for your set of turns (while possibly reading the topic about the group's plans) and when it comes, you download the save, do the turns, and pass the new save further into the roster. Why would geography take this pleasure away from you? :smalltongue:

Oh, and speaking of turnsets. I think that when we start, we should go with t30 turns for the 1st player, 20 turns for the second, 15 turns for the third, and after this one-time cycle, 10 turns for everyone. (This is because the first turns in a game of Civilization are bound to be pretty uneventful, so the first turnset of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd player should be a little longer.)

Oh, and what game speed are we playing? I vote Normal. Or Epic, if need be. I'm not too fond of Marathon; it's a lot easier to play such a slow speed. And it's bound to drag out for a long time if we're going to consider Marathon.

[happyturtle]

Either Normal or Epic is fine. What map do you prefer? I tend to like Continents or Tectonics the best.

[Murska]

I suggest Normal for the first game, a Spiritual leader, map should be as random as we dare make it and Prince difficulty.

Winth will be the one to save our backsides once us poor beginners screw it all up for him. :smallbiggrin:

[Selrahc]

Hell yeah. Definitely in for a succession game. These are a lot more likely to get finished.

Normal is my preference since epic just means more paperwork in the report for relatively little gain.

Organized and charismatic are the traits that I find most fun. I think Financial really is imbalanced though. Not so much that it breaks the game, but it is clearly the best trait.

Charismatic/Organized would lead into a warmonger game with a big empire.

Skill level wise I'm fairly solid on Monarch. Playing with a bit of concentration should ensure I don't drop the ball if we go up to emperor, and if we want to hamstring ourselves a bit on Monarch or Prince with some roleplay restrictions I can handle myself.

Continents sounds good to me.

[Winthur]

Not so much that it breaks the game, but it is clearly the best trait.

Eh, I don't think so. I think it's so popular because it gives mainly a tech advantage (which is easy to leverage), and because it's so easy to use. But on the other hand, it only gives a bonus on high commerce tiles and that's it. Having other traits can be often a lot more useful (if properly leveraged) than Financial; most of those have some pretty huge early game bonuses that help later.

Financial is a pretty good empire-builder trait and helps finance wars, but it's not the best trait for every situation; otherwise it would hardly be a strategy game.

[Eldan]

I haven't played in ages, and don't even quite remember what leaders I like, but I'm in.
Give me a random leader, that should be fun.

Also: is "Flexible Difficulty" only in Fall from Heaven, or also in Beyond the Sword?

[happyturtle]

It's a succession game, so we all have the same leader. :smallsmile:

Should we go ahead and start? We can always drop more people into the rotation later. Who wants to go first?

[Winthur]

Should we go ahead and start? We can always drop more people into the rotation later. Who wants to go first?

How about we agree on our settings first? :smalltongue:
I'm fine with either landmass. I never played Tectonics yet, could be fun.
As for the leader choice, I'd say I'd prefer Spiritual, Creative, Organized or Expansive for this game. Charismatic is fine with me.

I guess someone should start a game and post a screenshot of our starting position, so we can have those epic, 30 page long debates about where to move our very first settler. :smallwink:

[Eldan]

Ah, succession. I was thinking of multiplayer, then. Well, that's fine too. Don't sign me up too early, the first few turns are boring.

[Walter O'Dim]

I'll join this or a mulitplayer game.

[happyturtle]

Okay, everyone who is in, vote for two traits, one map, one speed, and one difficulty level. Majority rules, unless the two traits chosen don't go together in any one leader. Then we'll have a run off with the best potential fits or something.

Creative
Expansive
Tectonics
Normal
Prince

[Winthur]

Spiritual
Creative
Tectonics
Normal
Prince

[Terraoblivion]

I would like to join too. Although being close to a beginner in terms of skill, i would probably cause everything to humorously fail when it gets to be my turn on difficulties higher than Noble. I can hold my own fine there, except that i always get too distracted to play a game to the finish.

Even so i hold off on voting since i cannot recall what most of those things really means. Except for speed. There i vote for Normal.

[Murska]

Spiritual
Creative
Random
Normal
Prince

[Eldan]

Spiritual
Creative
Tectonics
Normal
Prince

[Smiling Knight]

I don't have time to actually play, but I'm an Emperor and would happy to give advice if needed.

[Walter O'Dim]

Spiritual
Creative
Tectonics
Normal
Prince

[happyturtle]

Looks like we've got a consensus

Spiritual + Creative = Hattie of Egypt
Tectonics map
Normal speed
Prince difficulty

Who wants to go first?

[Selrahc]

Eh, I don't think so. I think it's so popular because it gives mainly a tech advantage (which is easy to leverage), and because it's so easy to use. But on the other hand, it only gives a bonus on high commerce tiles and that's it. Having other traits can be often a lot more useful (if properly leveraged) than Financial; most of those have some pretty huge early game bonuses that help later.

Financial is a pretty good empire-builder trait and helps finance wars, but it's not the best trait for every situation; otherwise it would hardly be a strategy game.

Economy is everything in CivIV. It leads to land. It leads to wealth. It leads to technology. It leads to military force. Financial gifts to you a supercharged economy which is very useful at all stages of the game. Early or late.

I would say it is better than any other trait in the game but the difference is minimal enough that the game is still enjoyable.


I say Happyturtle should start us off, unless she doesn't want to.

[happyturtle]

Behold! The future Playgroundian Empire. Let the debate over where to settle begin.

(better name suggestions welcome)

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t1.png

[Vorpal word]

Random question:

I have Civ IV but have never been able to play it due to various random errors. My computer is a Vista Home Premium with 3G RAM and over 70 Gigs of memory (and that's on my first hard drive). I also seem to have all the other requirements, but the game gives me an error message when it starts. Something about XML... (I don't remember exactly as I gave up a year ago).

If anyone has potential solutions, short of reinstalling the whole system or something extreme like that, please post them so that I may participate in future games. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

No idea, but my computer is waaaay undepowered, and it manages to run it, so I imagine your problem is surmountable. You might try googling for the civ fanatics forum. I'm sure someone there knows how to fix it.

[Selrahc]

Marble is lovely to have near your capital, I foresee some wonders being built. Lots of forests to chop as well. I would probably settle in place. Looks a decent enough position and I'm sure there will be another food resource lurking in the fog(Since as far as I know the game is wired to give capital sites 2 or more sources of bonus food). Perhaps a turn of scouting.

[happyturtle]

I usually settle in place, but I sometimes make an exception if I can get to the coast in a turn or two. I end up with less production capability, but more monies, and I like having a navy.

Of course settling in place gives us a river on three sides, which will be great if we screw up enough to let an army get close to our capital.

[Selrahc]

Settling on the coast isn't that useful for the first city if there aren't any seafood resources(Because in the long run a grassland tile is more useful than a sea one, and there will be time enough to settle on the sea)

[Walter O'Dim]

eeerrr, we're playing Prince right? How many other AI's>

[happyturtle]

I... don't remember. Whatever is the default for a standard map size.

[warty goblin]

You mean seventy gigs of hard drive space, not memory. Memory in common usage is synonemous with RAM, and there's no way that Vista can handle 70 gigs of the stuff.

My advice is to disconnect from the internet, turn off your antivirus, kill every nonvital process under your user name using the task manager (if it's like XP that's everything except explore and taskmanager) and trying again.

Beyond that, I'm afraid we need a little more to go on than 'it didn't work.'

[Winthur]

I'd say that the sea isn't worth settling this early when there are no food resources nearby, especially since it costs 2 turns, wastes a forest, devoids our capital of the fresh water bonus, and gives up on an already visible Cow resource.

What the settler stands on seems to be a fine spot. Not the best, but Cows and Marble give good early production, there's fresh water. There isn't a ton of food, but it's not a bad location; if we don't grow our capital fast enough, we can put some Farms early on.

The game does point that there's another location worth settling 2E of our settler's initial position, but we have no idea whether is this worth the time wasted.

So, I'd vote for settle in place. Or poke around with a Warrior (I'd say either 1NE or 1SE) and look whether there's an infinitely better position than what we already have first.

The only thing we need to keep in mind: whatever you do, don't settle one tile off the coast.

Don't worry; even if our first city isn't on the coast, we can make it up by building a few fishing villages as a filler later on. :smallsmile: Plus, obviously, the rivered grassland tiles have more commerce potential than those sea tiles, and the trade route bonus for cities on the water won't kick in for a long time.

[Eldan]

Yes, the first city doesn't need to be on the coast. I'd suggest making a second one at the coast early on, though, and then follow either that river further inland, or settle more along the coast, depending on what kind of resources we can find.

[Vorpal word]

You mean seventy gigs of hard drive space, not memory. Memory in common usage is synonemous with RAM, and there's no way that Vista can handle 70 gigs of the stuff.

My advice is to disconnect from the internet, turn off your antivirus, kill every nonvital process under your user name using the task manager (if it's like XP that's everything except explore and taskmanager) and trying again.

Beyond that, I'm afraid we need a little more to go on than 'it didn't work.'

Surprisingly, running it in compatibility for Windows NT worked, of all things. It looks pretty cool; I will be watching this game as a sort of secondary tutorial since I suspect this game is quite different from Civ 3.

[Kzickas]

I only have civ4 vanilla, but I'm going to get complete some time during the next months. If the game is still going on then I'll want a turn

[Murska]

With marble and so many choppable forests, Oracle is a given. We might even want to save the forests for other wonders; this is Prince after all.

Settling in place seems fine to me, I can't really see everything properly from that picture but I can't think of any reason to move and take the risk we lose bonuses from the fog tiles to the south for the possibility that we gain some from the fog tiles to the north, especially considering it wastes us a turn.

With the computer-proposed tile, I have a feeling...

There MIGHT be copper or iron in those hills. Computer sites take into account unrevealed resources. And if there is and it's in the BFC of the capital... :smallbiggrin:

[loopy]

I'd quite like to play, if you are still recruiting?

[Eldan]

I guess so... I mean, we haven't even changed player's once, or agreed on some kind of order.

We are egypt, right? Can we build pyraminds early, please? For both flavour and anachronistic government styles.

[Terraoblivion]

I agree with the consensus, that seems like a pretty decent spot to start. No need to risk wasting a turn to find that there isn't anything better nearby.

[happyturtle]

Settle in place then?

And do people want me to start off? *gulp*

I'm only a noble player...

[Terraoblivion]

An important part of succession games is watching people humorously fail and try to salvage the mess they made. Also you have only moved one difficulty up, so it should work out fine.

[Murska]

Hey, I'm barely a chieftain player nowadays.

Hehehe... I pray for the third player, I really do. Have fun with your Poreans, Winth.

[Winthur]

Well, given I am so important to this team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie), and that the first few turns comprises mainly of scouting around, and that the roster is growing really big, I'd say I'd place myself somewhere in the 4th-5th position. :smalltongue:

[Muz]

What? :smallconfused:
I understand the thing about not having enough free time, but what would geographical distance have to do with it? :smalltongue: You simply wait for your set of turns (while possibly reading the topic about the group's plans) and when it comes, you download the save, do the turns, and pass the new save further into the roster. Why would geography take this pleasure away from you? :smalltongue:


We're still playing against other people, yes? If the idea is to move things faster this time, everyone in Europe will be playing at roughly the same time, then you'll email the game to me and you'll have to wait probably half a day until I'm up and to take my team's turn before I send it back. I'm a bottleneck. (As evidenced by how much this thread has progressed before I was able to reply to the above quote.)

Don't worry, I'll be fine. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

The Chronicles of General Playground:

Turn 1: We have founded the City of Thebes. Huzzah! To celebrate, we begin the training of a warrior. Meanwhile, I've been told there are some pretty rocks nearby, so I order our scientists to try and find a use for them.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t1a.png

Our warrior-scout Anubis discovers some friendly villagers who give him a map. It seems there is a lot of water to the south. Lots and lots of water. Looks like there might be good things to eat in it though. Perhaps we should consider settling there someday.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t1b.png

Turn 7: We have discovered mining! If only we had someone to do such mining. Some type of ... work... doing... person. A "Work-er", if you will.

Turn 8: We send out our second warrior-scout, Bakari, and begin to see about training someone to do "work." Sounds dreadful. :smallyuk:

Turn 9: Buddhism is discovered in a distant land. We all look at each other and shrug, wondering what a "Buddhism" is.

Turn 14: We discover masonry! At last, we can use our pretty rocks! Now, if only we knew what to do with those big grass eating animals that fart a lot.

Turn 15: Bakari slays the dreaded panther! :smallcool:

Turn 18: Bakari finds a hostile village! :smalleek:

Turn 19: And is slain. :smallfrown:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t20.png

Turn 24: Someone discovers Hinduism. But that news is quickly overshadowed by events of far more import to our Empire. Anubis finds the bastard who killed Bakari, who is still bearing the wounds of that deadly battle. Apparently he's not a very smart barbarian, because he charges right across a river to attack. Vengeance is ours!

Turn 25: Upon the discovery of Animal Husbandry, our scientists theorize the existence of creatures known as "horses".

"Do you see any?"
"Nope, you?"
"Not a one."
"Damn. Lets see if we can learn how to make sharp metal things instead."

Turn 30: As my last act as emperor, I name our newest warrior: Dakarai, which means 'Happy', and turn the empire over to my successor. :smallsmile:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t30.png

Thoughts: City still hasn't reached population 3, which is why I didn't start a settler yet. Though maybe I should have thrown some hammers towards barracks instead of making 3 warriors. Now that the first pasture is made, we should start growing faster.

Naming: I googled 'Egyptian names' and picked an A name for the first warrior, a B name for the second, etc.

Probably not the best start.

Turn 1 save file (http://rapidshare.com/files/308453577/General_Playground_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave.html)
Turn 30 save file (http://rapidshare.com/files/308453575/General_Playground_BC-2800.CivBeyondSwordSave.html)

[Terraoblivion]

And this prompts an important question...did we ever figure out who is number two in leading the Egyptians?

[Murska]

I assume we're going in sign-up order.

First city location, anyone? Maybe we should attempt to block off this peninsula for ourselves. With the Creative culture bonus, it should be doable. Though the city would cost more and it all depends on where Copper is and such.

[Terraoblivion]

And i see that a list is up in the first post. Your turn then, it seems.

[Winthur]

Which means the next one in the line is Murska the definition defier. :smalltongue:
(I'd say Murska is next. After all, our first scouts are essential to grab more map intel, and just for the sake of future barbarian skirmishes we'd want some Murska'd units. If you didn't understand that joke, that means you're sane. :smalltongue: )

The turnset wasn't bad! :smallsmile: I think I'd have gone Worker first and Animal Husbandry right off the bat for growth + early visible horses (which are a very viable option for future War Chariots), but there's no harm done, really. After all, this other scout had the potential to find some goody huts. Too bad he failed, but oh well, just move on. I assume that our first settlement has already reached size 2?

I will take a look at the save (but I'm not going to play it until we agree on who plays next) to pinpoint some things later.

[Murska]

Blah. File can't be uncompressed or something similar, the error message flashes so fast it's hard to see. I'll look into it tomorrow.

[Walter O'Dim]

I'l play third or fourth. Been awhile since I played this 4x game and I need to get my grove back.

[Selrahc]

Blah. File can't be uncompressed or something similar, the error message flashes so fast it's hard to see. I'll look into it tomorrow.

I tried a download of the file to check and it seems to work for me.

The place where we are right now seems incredibly devoid of resources. The flood plains kind of make up for that, but we are going to need some luxuries and the only one in sight is the sugar.

I'd recommend settling our next city at the spot 1 SW of the Nile River sign. Lots of food from the flood plains and wheat, access to the ocean, plenty of potential for a massive commerce generator.

[happyturtle]

I like the idea of blocking off the peninsula for our own use. Maybe with our third city? Then at some point relocating the capital to a more central location to save money. As for resources, we can hopefully trade our surplus cows and wheat, assuming we have neighbors we don't need ocean travel to find. I never really needed luxury, but then again, as a player who primarily wins by culture, happiness isn't much of a problem.

A lot will depend on where the copper is. Sure hope there is some... the lack of horses really sucks since it means no UU for us, but no horses and no copper would be bad.

Should we try for stonehenge, to get the free Obelisk in every city? That does apply to cities founded after Stonehenge is built, right? I don't usually go for many wonders, so I haven't learned as much about them.

I didn't try for an early religion because I figured without already having Mysticism we'd get beaten anyway. We can use Oracle to get Code of Laws for Confucianism at least. Unless we'd rather take Alphabet as the free tech for early tech trading.

[Winthur]

Should we try for stonehenge, to get the free Obelisk in every city? That does apply to cities founded after Stonehenge is built, right? I don't usually go for many wonders, so I haven't learned as much about them.

Since we're Creative, we wouldn't really profit from the Stonehenge's main factor. So I guess the biggest use out of it would be to get some Great Prophets, which are pretty useful at early stage of the game - they can help fuel some early expansion (with settling or shrine) or give a useful slingshot to a good tech (like Theology [which gives us Christianity, which can be a remedy to our religion and/or happiness issues!] BTW, I like Theology because it's an useful broker tech.). On the other hand, since we're already Creative and get free culture, the free Obelisks won't give us that much, really.
And we have cheap Libraries as a Creative leader. Cheap Libraries = fast 2 scientists = faster Academy = better science. Which is pretty good when you consider all the commerce potential around our cities. And the Prophet points can spoil the Great Person pool, meaning that there's a chance for not-so-desirable Great Prophet when we're shooting for a Scientist. And, of course, you can also use those Scientists for the really pricy Philosophy, which gives us Taoism if we're fast enough (and opens up the Liberalism path).

So I'd say I'd rather skip Stonehenge and for the price of the wonder build a few more Workers and Settlers.


I didn't try for an early religion because I figured without already having Mysticism we'd get beaten anyway. We can use Oracle to get Code of Laws for Confucianism at least. Unless we'd rather take Alphabet as the free tech for early tech trading.

We could also get Metal Casting if we're shooting for Oracle. It's worth a lot of beakers (which means it's useful for tech trading and will save us a few turns). It enables the Colossus, which is built superfast with Copper and gives a huge bonus for water tile commerce output. It gives early Forges. (if we were playing an Industrious leader, this would be especially powerful)

Or maybe Monarchy, if we're REALLY starved for happiness, but I'd rather wait and see whether is it going to be that much of a limit now; this tech is pretty cheap.

OK, enough with the speculations, I think it's still a little early to decide those things. :smallwink:

I've made a little preliminary dotmap; it covers a few spots that I think are considerable. Don't settle cities according to it yet - I'm putting it there for debate.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7783/ideaforadotmap.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/ideaforadotmap.jpg/)

Red Dot - our capital (just for reference)
Pink Dot - the spot indicated by Selrahc. It grabs a ton of flood plains, has a coast access, has fresh water to mitigate the negative flood plains effect, and is supported by irrigated wheat tile. I support the idea of settling there, but we should check out whether there are other resources in the fog to the west.
White Dot - this is a rather uninspired choice; I figured that it's a good spot because it doesn't waste any flood plains, grabs the wheat that just missed our capital's borders, and can borrow the cow tile if we micromanage a bit. What do you think about this spot?
Blue Dot - this is my proposition for a filler fishing city. It's VERY food rich, utilizes all the grassland tiles we didn't grab with our capital... I think it will be an useful spot. Production issues are non-existant - all the infrastructure here can be whipped (As in, we can use Slavery to hurry their production), as well as a few troops. I think this city location, minor as it is, can have some profitable uses - for example, running specialists or supporting our economy through naval trade routes and commerce tiles. What do you think about this spot?

The main problem with this start that all the hills aren't supported by any food, so squeezing production out of them might be rather hard.
I think we should definitely push our scouting and expansion efforts north and hope for the best.

Thoughts?

[Terraoblivion]

Those spots look fairly good Winthur, though being the non-planning type of person i am, i am not sure if that would actually be true in the longer run. I am worried about there being no other good spots in this area, given the roughness of the terrain to the north.

[Winthur]

Well, these are just a few suggestions. They have the nice bonus of being very close to our capital (lowering the maintenance costs), and they pull out all the resources possible without wasting the best tiles.

I think most of our cities on the peninsula should be clinging to the coast. Anything can be made productive with enough food, and from the water, we can pull out some commerce, at the least.

But I believe that there should be some better land up the undiscovered (yet) north, and we should make sure we push our scouts to find this land. If it's good, I'd say we send our first Settlers up there while filling our core cities with cottages.

Those silly plains can be settled later.

With this kind of start we might be up for the Santa Rosa Maneuver™ (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492). :smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

I think Winth's map looks pretty good. I vote for Pink Dot first since, you know, it's the Pink Dot. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Okay, something just made me doubt that sentiment. BLU dot seems more and more interesting now...

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0011-3.jpg

[happyturtle]

Go BLU! :smallbiggrin:

[Terraoblivion]

Yeah, getting copper quickly will be a good thing. So blue dot followed by pink dot?

[Murska]

The Playgroundian Tale of Adventure(grinding), Exploration(but not in space v.v) and Horror(at horrific hat styles)!

Turn 30: Okay, at the reigns, Murska the... well, I don't think I have a nickname just yet. I wonder what these people will name me as. Insane? Invincible? Violent? Deceitful?

Our military seems in reasonable shape for self-defense but something is missing. Something is nagging me, something important.

Oh, now I get it! There are no opponents! There is nobody to pillage and plunder! Whatever am I going to do!?

Well, I order the training of a scouting warrior. Maybe he'll find us someone to kill.

Turn 33: The warrior finishes training and is sent off to find out where all the enemies have gone. And if he should find the rum on his way, that'd also be grand.

Then a frail-looking guy who'd totally have glasses if this were a few thousand years in the future runs up to me, blathering about their 'scientific' project. Bah, I've seen them banging rocks together all day long... Wait, what's that he's showing me?

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0009-4.jpg

They actually made a weapon out of that weird stuff? That is much better than any of our old ones? I think the research budget just dou... tripled.

Turn 37: A messenger from the scouts. Apparently Anubis wandered into a village called Boston and looked so tough a boy from there decided to tag along and serve as a scout for us. Lo and behold! The very next dayfour decades later he shows us mountains filled with gold.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0010-3.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0000-9.jpg

Gold, bah. Yellow, weak metal which bends easily. And so far away, too.

Turn 40: Next the boy heads to a meeting of the boys where they tell each other about their respective employers.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0001-7.jpg

And apparently exchange video phones or something. Oh well, at least now we have enemies to slaughter! :smallbiggrin:

Turn 47: And the BLU dot, now called Das Crepes, starts bringing in important stuff. Most importantly the 'copper' we nowadays make our weapons out of. Though we'll need to set up a proper mine to have enough of it.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0002-6.jpg

And our people need to get creative and decide that it's more fun to farm farther from the city to be able to even get to the mining site. Well, that shouldn't take long.

Turn 48: Our scout exchanges video phones with yet another adversary!

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0003-6.jpg

Okay, hi there... but... what's wrong with the...

The hat! AUGH! It's horrible! It burns us! I'm not too overjoyed by him thrusting his man-boobs at my face but okay, maybe they're too primitive to have clothing. But that hat? Nothing excuses such a gross violation of headgear fashion! NOTHING!

Turn 50: Time to go sleep for another few thousand years. I'll leave you with a couple pictures of the overall state of the nation.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0005-6.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0004-6.jpg

And the save is here (http://rapidshare.com/files/308937622/General_Playground_BC-2000.CivBeyondSwordSave.html).

Comments:
1: Lake Clover should be named Lake Apila, please fix that. Apila is Clover in finnish and it sounds cooler that way. :smallbiggrin:
2: I vote we name the Pink Dot city 'This Reeks' for the diseased floodplain tiles and the rhyming. Or maybe 'The Geeks' and save 'This Reeks' to the one at White Dot.
3: Three neighbours found, none of their land in sight. The stone spot is a bit far but would be good to nab... Who knows.

[happyturtle]

If we go by sign up order, Winthur is next, but he requested 4th or 5th turn. So Eldan?

Players:
Order|Player|Turns played
1|Happyturtle|1-30
2|Murska|31-50
3|Winthur
4|Eldan
5|Terraoblivion
6|Selrahc
7|Walter O'Dim
8|Loopy

[Winthur]

If we go by sign up order, Winthur is next, but he requested 4th or 5th turn. So Eldan?

You know, I think I might as well play this turn. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Cool. Go for it.

[Selrahc]

I really really want to grab that gold. It is just so shiny and brilliant.

Probably a good thing I'm not up for another 35 by which time we'll either have it or someone else will, or I would be doing my turn set as a gold rush.

[happyturtle]

Heehee... I'm the same way about gems. "Oooh, sparkly... WANT!"

[Winthur]

On the Revolution of Murska's Turns:
Trusting Murska worked out great! :smallbiggrin: Everything seems properly micromanaged, we have scouted a lot of land, and we have a second city.
I have only one pet peeve - we have a ton of land for ourselves, but we also hurried two Settlers and we're planning to make due with only one Worker? Not a really http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Smilies/smoke.gif move, but underdeveloped lands aren't going to make us money for quite a while. We played 9 Hatch and now our economy kinda sucks.

The Chronicles of Winthur of the Porean Dynasty
Turn 0 (The Inherited Turn): I look around our empire. It's fairly well managed, but I do a few things:
I set our research from Priesthood to Fishing.
I know what you're thinking - is that crazy Porean going to send our Oracle plans down with the fishies?! No, but there are TWO seafood resources at BLU Dot and I'm planning to use [Luigi mode on]]lots of Slaveri![Luigi mode off]. I'm just using a more growth-oriented standpoint. From my experience, the Oracle doesn't fall that early, so I think we can spend a few turns to get that Fishing, switch back to Priesthood and finish Oracle with the help of some Worker chops. Das Crepes is building a Warrior - and it could build that essential Work Boat instead. :smallfrown:
Turn 1: Our SCV is chopping down a forest to get that Worker faster. We're going to hit three cities soon, we should have at the totally minimal least three workers! I know we're not hooking up Copper, but we don't need it at this point. Look at this Demography table:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2641/civ4screenshot0093.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0093.jpg/)
Our Production is fine, but with this kind of start we don't have much in terms of growth - our food bushel business is inferior to everyone else, and that's no good. When in doubt, check the Food and Production demography; it pretty much says whether your empire is successful or whether it sucks. We're run of the mill, I'd say... But I think I can remedy this.
Also, we've found the Ethiopian border:
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7089/civ4screenshot0095.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0095.jpg/)


Zara is surely going to get all the Gold, bummer to that. He's also already the largest civilization in the world, according to the list of McCauley (we're fourth). I think we're in for quite a competition.

Thankfully, Zara and Pacal are probably going to hate each other because of the religion differences, so we might be able to stir up a skirmish between the two.

Turn 2:
I send the newly built Hero Probe to scout...
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1289/scoutingprobe.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/scoutingprobe.jpg/)

Whoops, wait, wrong game.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1015/heroprobe.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/heroprobe.jpg/)

This guy is the Warrior that was just built in Das Crepes. I will poke him around the fog so he can fogbust (Barbs spawn only on tiles that are covered with fog of war).

Also, Pink Dot settled on, well, the Pink Dot and starts off with a Worker. Like I said - we're at a Worker shortage, there are no useful resources to be worked in Thebes (so it stays at 3 for the time being while it churns out Workers), and we'll want to cottage spam soon to build up our economy.

Turn 3: Nothing happens...

Turn 4:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2366/weherduliekstarcraft.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/weherduliekstarcraft.jpg/)


:smallannoyed:

In other news, Anubis defeats a Lion and becomes Woodsman II.

Another Worker is up and he goes off to hook up the Wheat at Pink Dot.

The SCV, meanwhile, begins chopping down a hill tree to hurry a Workboat in Das Crepes.

Turn 5: *glug glug glug ENTER* This turn brought to you by Winthur drinking Coca-Cola and Press End Turn.

Turn 6: Borders of Pink Dot expand just as the Worker is about to farm the wheat! (Casper pops out) TIMING! :smallbiggrin:

The forest on the hill of Das Crepes has been cleared, which means the Work Boat is going to be complete next turn. But... in addition to that, I slave off the newly gained population point. :smalleek:

Turn 7: The Work Boat pops out and another one will follow in the next turn! :smallbiggrin: A Worker at Thebes builds a Farm in the cleared Forest just for the lulz (or maybe just some additional food).

I was thinking about what are we going to grab from the Oracle, too. We haven't really discussed it, but... hey, the succession games are also about working out things when someone screws up, so I will spice things up.

Since it appears most of our cities will be on the coast, and that our immediate inland sucks... I've decided to go with Metal Casting. I spent some turns on Writing before realizing we don't really need Code of Laws right now; if we want a religion, we are basically forced to grab one of the AI ones (because otherwise we will end up with no friends, especially 'cuz Alexander is naked invisible, so I have no idea whether do we have a chance at converting him to our religion). There is Buddhism and Hinduism on our mainland, so I don't think it's going to be a problem once we hit Sailing. Even if we do get Code of Laws, we still don't have a ton of cities to maintain costs from, and Courthouses are WAY too expensive for our young civilization to build them or even whip. We will need them, but not now.

With Copper at hand we will finish the Colossus in little time, which will be pretty useful to rob the sea off all the money (and also grant us some Great Merchant points...). Also, in the meantime, we get Pottery, which is the tech that availables Cottages, and we're going to lay quite a few of them at Pink Dot and Thebes. Thebes and Pink Dot have some production, so they will benefit from Forges.

Turn 8: As a result of my cruelty, we have our two first Fishing Boats neatly timed so that both of them are in place at the same time! BLU Dot is going to be a food beast in the long run. :smallsmile: Don't worry about the lost population - it's going to regrow in no time. BLU Dot starts Barracks, because nothing better is available.

Turn 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14: Nothing of interest happens. I just End Turn while menial tasks are being done.

Turn 15: The crowning of the reign of the Porean regents:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6505/civ4screenshot0100.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0100.jpg/)

Yippee! :smallbiggrin:

A World Map overview:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9883/civ4screenshot0101.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0101.jpg/)

Also, here's the Demographics shot from the end of my turnset:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7276/demographics.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/demographics.jpg/)

Well, we started humbly, but now we're at the top of the GNP (amazingly enough) rating, have a decent Production, but most of all, we lead at the Food bushel production. :smallsmile:
(OK, I think I'm kissing my own butt a little too much here. :smalltongue: Honestly, I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou.)

Also, this is interesting:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/387/civ4screenshot0102.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0102.jpg/)

Either Alexander or Pacal (I can't tell which color of the border is this) is blocked by the peaks. It might be good news for us if we try to go the West Coast Customs route...

OK, this finishes my round. Here are a few proposals of mine for the immediate future:

-We're going Sailing to get a shot at early trade routes with other civs through the sea (and we can build a Lighthouse in BLU Dot)
-After this, Writing to get a Library and 2 Scientists, pronto.
-Thebes should finish the Granary.
-Push the growth of all our cities until they're at the happy cap.
-Start laying down Cottages (Pottery is already in; it was discovered simultaneously with Metal Casting). I'm not sure whether Thebes should be a commerce city, but Pink Dot definitely should be. Das Crepes is growing to be kind of a hybrid, but that's no problem, we will use this production in it's infant stages.
-After Das Crepes' size is as high as possible, get it working on the Mines so it can get that Forge and Colossus in a timely fashion.

OTHER INFO:
-The worker at Pink Dot is not finished yet; when I hooked up wheat, I decided to use the food to grow the size to 2; after the Pink Dot grows a bit, resume with the Worker.

So, how do you like it? :smallsmile: Any thoughts?

EDIT: Oh, right, I forgot to post the save! Here it is. (http://rapidshare.com/files/309207498/General_Playground_BC-1400.CivBeyondSwordSave.html)

[Eldan]

So, since I seem to be next in line, I name myself Eldan the Slightly-less-cruel-than-Winthur, since I rarely use slavery. I'll build cottages, though, I like them, and work towards the colossus.

Now, I'm at the library, but I'll be home in a few hours.

[Winthur]

Don't forget to expand! I think that the White Dot is a pretty good spot, but that could go under some debate. There's some habitable grassland in the east coast of our peninsula, but I don't know whether it is worth settling now or not.

[happyturtle]

Looks like a good turnset. I still don't have a good head for the economy 'big picture'. Looks like I'm going to learn a lot playing this way though. :smallsmile:

As for the future, I'd rather move up the west coast, and then fill in the east coast once we've blocked off the peninsula.

[Murska]

What about the spot with Corn, Bananas and Sugar? Jungley, sure, but under the jungle lies fertile grassland tiles. And it's on the coast.

[Winthur]

What about the spot with Corn, Bananas and Sugar? Jungley, sure, but under the jungle lies fertile grassland tiles. And it's on the coast.

This is a very good spot, but it really requires Iron Working and an empire with a bigger worker force to cut down that jungle fast, plus it requires a really long road to connect it to the rest of our empire. A definite keeper though. I suggest someone sends a Warrior to this jungle so that no Barbarian city spawns there while we build the Settler and road this spot.

Really, Workers are da bomb. DON'T automate them; it's a heavy sin. And if you want to automate them, at least don't allow them to bulldoze old improvements or cut down forests.

[Murska]

If automated they tend to build forts on your important resources. :smallannoyed:

[Winthur]

That I can live with... the worst thing is when they remove your Towns and Villages to lay down Farms. :smallfurious:

[Murska]

Oh really? Have you ever declared a war with a powerful opponent and gone to whip your swords and axes just to notice that you no longer have iron because the workers built a fort on the mine the previous turn?

[happyturtle]

Once I was playing on a flat map, and the idiots built a fort down in the lower left corner. There really ought to be a 'do not make forts' option. They're only useful for making canals or to secure the very rare mountain pass.

[Winthur]

Oh really? Have you ever declared a war with a powerful opponent and gone to whip your swords and axes just to notice that you no longer have iron because the workers built a fort on the mine the previous turn?

They do that because forts in BtS can be used to hook up resources.

It is useful in case of Oil - you uncover it, put a Fort on it, road it, and once you hit Combustion, boom, instant Oil access.

[Walter O'Dim]

EDIT: My bad just saw turn order.

Should we buddy buddy with the Incas...or just get rid of them now while their nice and weak.

[Eldan]

Uhm... stupid question: how do I open this save file? It just gave me about 10 warning messages, and then the game crashed.

XML errors. And I can start the game normally after deleting the save again.

[happyturtle]

I just downloaded it and got it running with no problem. I saved it in

My Games > Beyond the Sword > Saves > Single

Then I started the game and loaded it from the menu.

Do you have any mods loaded maybe?

[Selrahc]

Should we buddy buddy with the Incas...or just get rid of them now while their nice and weak.

Too early to tell. I think we'll decide on our first opponent once the landgrab phase is over. Until then don't try and side with anyone unless you have to.

[happyturtle]

It'll probably depend on which religion gets to us first. But I know Murska wants to get rid of Pacal and his silly hat.

The one that always gives me the creeps is Hammarabi when he suddenly thrusts his ugly face into the camera. Made me jump first time I saw it.

[Eldan]

Someone else go first, please. I'll start by uninstalling and reinstalling the game, because now it's crashing constantly. So it probably wasn't the save's fault.

[happyturtle]

Players:
Order|Player|Turns played
1|Happyturtle|1-30
2|Murska|31-50
3|Winthur
4|Terraoblivion
5?|Eldan
6|Selrahc
7|Walter O'Dim
8|Loopy


Terra then?

[Terraoblivion]

Sure. I don't have time right now, but i will in the evening. Time to watch strange thing happen to our country. Perhaps.

[Terraoblivion]

Diary of Queen Terra of the Playground
1400 BC - Something terrible has happened. King Winthur the Great has disappeared before his works were done, leaving it to me to take up the reigns after him. Hopefully i will do well, though his notes should be a great guide in where to lead our people. Looking over the land i determined that it was both prosperous and well-managed, yet we must not grow complacent and forget about our eternal duty to bring our people to glory. In recognition of this fact i charged the governor of Thebes with outfitting an expedition to settle the north once he finishes creating safe storage for the food our people grow. The bandits roaming near the area i plan to colonize are worrying though, hopefully they will foolishly decide to attack Dakarai.

1360 BC - Treason! The people of Das Crepes decide to protest our honorable and glorious rule, completely refusing to see the wisdom in King Winthur's decision to work a few of them to death, creating important infrastructure for the kingdom. Thankfully it appears that tempers will soon calm down again.

1240 BC - The bandits could no longer resist the temptation. Having taken a defensible position Dakarai took them out easily, leaving no obstacles to northward expansion.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/ScreenShot1.jpgThere is still the risk of new bandits arriving, however. Dakarai must stay on his toes, even as the expedition will have an escort.

Also important is that Pink Dot finished training more soldiers for our army. Hopefully these can keep those unruly Crepesians in check, quelling the new riots they just began.

1200 BC - Following in King Winthur's footsteps have paid off. Augurs have determined that no other people in the world is as successful as we Playgrounders.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/ScreenShot2.jpg
The weak military and sickly population are still causes for worry though.

1120 BC - The granaries are complete, promising faster, healthier growth for the people of our capital. Work on putting together the expedition to the north has begun with the escort.

Cause for worry is the fact that new bandits have come to threaten the land we wish to colonize. Hopefully Dakarai can take care of them.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Screenshot3.jpg

1080 BC - Traders from the far-off people, the Mayas, have brought their beliefs with them as they visited Pink Dot. The comfort granted by these rituals and elaborate theologies are sure to keep our people happy.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Screenshot4.jpg
Troops have also arrived to quell the unrest in Das Crepes, hopefully our worries about rioting are over for now. If not they will feel the whip to keep them in line. Settlements along the River Nile have begun, hopefully the income taxes from these provide in the future will be of great value to our glorious nation.

1000 BC - Our mystics have devised a system by which we can record our knowledge through symbolic representations. This is sure to provide a great benefit towards increasing our wisdom in the future. I have proposed creating a repository for this knowledge in Pink Dot. However, i feel the pull of the ancients drawing me to leave my people behind, so i leave this suggestion to my successor along with a status for our kingdom.

Some images of the situation might be helpful. First the accounts of the nation to show that we are still doing better than anybody else, unless you count trivial details such as military readiness and the standard of living of our population. But you can't get it all, right?
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Screenshot5.jpg

Secondly is the proof of the bandits who worry me. Still if we can get them to strike first while we are moving through the forest we should come out ahead.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Screenshot7.jpg

And finally a map of the world. Not much new here, but even just that information can be highly useful.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Screenshot6.jpg

My thoughts on how to proceed from here.
- Finish the forge in Das Crepes and move on to the Colossus, it should pay for itself quite quickly.
- Allow for the cottages by Pink Dot to finish, it grows fast enough that many of them should be worked quite soon.
- Some military would probably be a good idea. Either that or keeping on good terms with Zara Yaqob, while keeping the fog away from the western areas, though i think it can wait a bit.
- From the technologies available at the moment, Iron Working should be the better bet in order to get any use of the spot in the jungle, no matter the amount of resources. Alternatively heading straight for calendar to make use of those resources could be valuable. Going for Alphabet to try and buy what we need is a possible, but risky strategy from this point onwards.

New Save (http://rapidshare.com/files/310154103/General_Playground_BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave.html)

[Winthur]

King Winthur the Great

:smalleek: :smallbiggrin:


1360 BC - Treason! The people of Das Crepes decide to protest our honorable and glorious rule, completely refusing to see the wisdom in King Winthur's decision to work a few of them to death, creating important infrastructure for the kingdom. Thankfully it appears that tempers will soon calm down again.

Argh! Now it dawned on me that Hero Probe should have stayed in Das Crepes. Completely forgot about the "We demand more safety" thing. :smallsigh:

See, Murska? Population slaughtering, riots, unhealthy policy... what the hell have I done to your poor city?! :smallbiggrin:

(I think that in a way it might help a few people who don't believe in their skills - YES, I do stupid stuff too :smallbiggrin: )


If not they will feel the whip to keep them in line.

:smallbiggrin: If I have a food rich city, especially if it doesn't have a lot of production (although Das Crepes does have Copper and a few hills), I tend to whip it every 10 turns, just as the happiness penalty goes off. This is pretty effective, because every population point on Normal speed is worth 30 hammers and it doubles with prodcution bonuses. :smallsmile: Organized is pretty good with Slavery, because it allows you to whip out a Courthouse very fast in all your new acquisitions. In our case, this might be useful in hurrying those Temples and Libraries.


unless you count trivial details such as military readiness and the standard of living of our population. But you can't get it all, right?

Those things are pretty trivial; I don't really ever bother with Life Expectancy and Approval Rate (especially since they both rise UP when you whip your people... :smallbiggrin: ), because they're pretty much flavor, while military readiness doesn't mean anything when there's no one to attack us yet, with the exception of roving barbarian bands.


Alternatively heading straight for calendar to make use of those resources could be valuable.

Allow me to remind you that those resources are covered by Jungle, so we can't hook them up without Iron Working anyway. Plus, Jungle is pretty much useless and actually harmful, so we want a solid Worker force to cut it all down and farm the Corn ASAP.


Going for Alphabet to try and buy what we need is a possible, but risky strategy from this point onwards.

Alphabet could be useful (we have a strong bargain tech of Metal Casting). Seeing from your report, I assume we're Buddhist, meaning we score brownie points with Financial Pacal II, ergo he might be able to trade us something of value (like Mathematics). (If we DO tech Alphabet, DON'T sell it to anyone until it stops becoming monopoly. Rule of thumb.)


- Finish the forge in Das Crepes and move on to the Colossus, it should pay for itself quite quickly

Aye, it should. It's pretty cheap anyway, with Copper doubly so, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't fall into our hands.


- Allow for the cottages by Pink Dot to finish, it grows fast enough that many of them should be worked quite soon.

THIS. We are going full-blown cottage cheese there; make sure that it works as many cottages as food allows. And preferrably don't whip it unless it works unupgraded tiles.


- Some military would probably be a good idea. Either that or keeping on good terms with Zara Yaqob, while keeping the fog away from the western areas, though i think it can wait a bit.

Zara takes religion quite a bit seriously, so since we're Buddhist (I assume) and he's Hindu, we might have a future problem with him. However, right now, there's no reason to worry - Zara is way too far away to harm us. We can run on low military for now, and if a city is in mortal danger, don't hesitate to use the trusty http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Smilies/whipped.gif :smallwink:

Anyway. From the looks of things, Iron Working is a must. We can either acquire it with Alphabet or research it ourselves. Since I lean to the idea of building The Great Library, I think we can give Alphabet a shot, and Literature afterwards. Remember to wager carefully whether do we want to give away monopoly techs.

Afterwards, we need Currency and Civil Service. My rule of thumb is to get Civil Service somewhere along the 500-600 AD; Bureaucracy is pretty powerful, and the AIs tech it late.

Also, I think we should Open Borders with all our neighbors. We have Sailing and we're pretty much Going Coastal, so the trade routes will be huge. (Once we hit Compass, especially.)

All in all, a well done turnset. :smallsmile:

It is my understanding that the next in line is either Eldan, or if he's still incapacitated, then Selrahc?

[Eldan]

Still incapacitated. The game has decided that it doesn't like me anymore.

[Terraoblivion]

Yeah, the moment i pressed post i remembered about the jungle covering the resources. I feel like kind of a fool for not remembering when i wrote it, nothing major i guess.

And the Colossus is pretty cheap. I checked on the turn i stopped, it would take 14 turns to construct it in Das Crepes, but that will go down significantly thanks to the effect of the forge.

In any case i personally think that we are in a good position in most regards. I agree that the quality of life demographics are pointless, but it feels nice to be good to your people. And i am not overly concerned with military matters, Zara has no reason to rush us and we are fogbusting pretty efficiently.

Apart from the banana, sugar, corn spot i am not sure where we should develop next. We could head for the west coast or try to gain another cottage city at the white dot spot. The second will be more profitable in the short term as we won't extend as far away and will have a quickly growing city that works cottages. But it delays getting all the nice stuff at the west coast and leaves it open for the AI to grab.

[Selrahc]

Um.. file won't download for me. It asks me to become a premium member. That might just be because I'm on university servers and we might have exceeded the rapidshare download limit for the moment. I'll try again later.

EDIT:

Error
You want to download the following file:

http://rapidshare.com/files/310154103/General_Playground_BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave | 108 KB

This file can only be downloaded by becoming a Premium member

There are no more download slots available for free users right now. If you don't want to become a premium member, you might want to try again later.

[Winthur]

Well, I'm sitting in my home with a plate of grilled bacon,
callin' my man Dwight just to see what we're shaking,
"Yo Mike, Rapidshare won't download for free!"
So "wait for the save" is our new plea!

(I.e. I have the same problem, and I'm not in an university. I think we just have to wait until it cools down.)

[happyturtle]

Nice turnset. :smallsmile: Could you email the save file to Selrahc?

Players:
Order|Player|Turns played
1|Happyturtle|1-30
2|Murska|31-50
3|Winthur|51-65
4|Terraoblivion|66-75
5|Selrahc
?|Eldan
|Walter O'Dim
|Loopy

[Terraoblivion]

If i get his mail there should be no problem in that.

[Selrahc]

The reign of Queen Terra was known as a golden age of prosperity. In looking back though that could be seen as a curse. It made the times that were to come darker than even the reign of Winthur the Cruel or Murska the Bloodthirsty.

As Selrahc came to power the realm was beset by monsters. Lurking in the shadows. Killing the populace. Conspiracy theorists say that Selrahc took this atmosphere of fear and used it to push through construction of controversial projects. Certainly they disappeared as soon as his reign was over. With this in mind then I present to you the Egyptian folk tale called "Finding Sanctuary"

Turn 0- Everything looks pretty good as I take power, but we are going to change things up a bit for maximum slavery. Slaved in a forge in Das Crepes. Changed production in Pink Dot from Library to Granary.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg?t=1258905508

The citizens of Das Crepes were the first to fall under the shadow. They built a forge to outfit the hastily assembled militia, but the beasts took a heavy toll on their population.

Turn 1-Start production of the Colossus in Das Crepes. Slave in a settler in Thebes.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg?t=1258908534

The shadow beasts arrive Thebes and thousands are killed. Thousands more flee with what few meagre possessions they can carry. They intend to resettle in Pink Dot...

Turn 2-The settler builds and work in Thebes starts on a library. Das Crepes grows to size 3 so I set it to work its three mines and the Colossus will be done at the end of my turnset with a bit of forest chop help. I slave in a granary in Pink Dot.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg?t=1258905635

.. but as they travel stories filter back to them. Pink Dot is under the shadow too and the foolish denizens have decided to try and appease the beasts by leaving them food and sacrifices.

Turn 3- Pink Dot starts work on a library.

The refugees from Thebes meet up with refugees from Pink Dot and vow to escape from this dark force that is chasing them. The warrior Descartes takes an oath to protect these Hunted as they look for sanctuary.

Turn 4-The Settler leaves Egyptian lands.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg?t=1258905730

This proves to be a bad decision.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg?t=1258905769

It scurries back inside the borders while Descartes remains to hopefully kill the barbarian.

As the Hunted leave Egyptian land they see before them a great host of beasts. Surely even Descartes can not save them! The shadow creatures truly want to destroy them. All but a few flee back to Egyptian lands. But some stand with Descartes. Nightfall comes. The time of the shadow beasts. Descartes and his men stand in the darkness, a circle of torchlight and flame. United against the shadow.

Turn 5- Descartes wins!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg?t=1258905816
The workers around Pink Dot have almost got it fully cottaged as well. Iron Working should be done right after my turnset so the jungle settlement will be fine.

Descartes looked doomed but he and his companions stood strong. The shadow creatures attacked again and again. Lesser men would have turned and run but Descartes stood strong and through his strength they remained until dawn, when the shadows departed again.

Turn 6- The Library in Thebes is completed. I start up an axeman. One of the workers near pink dot starts to follow the settler up to the jungle.

Seeing the great victory many of those who had run begin to follow the Hunted again. More and more come.

Turn 7- Dakarai spots a barbarian out in the darkness.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg?t=1258905817

But the shadow beasts would not be stopped. On the frontiers a great host was sighted heading towards the intended site of Sanctuary. The warrior Dakarai risked life and limb to bring this message to Descartes.

Turn 8- Sanctuary is founded. Barbarians move closer to it.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg?t=1258905819

The Hunted enter the great jungle. Shadows are everywhere, even in the light of day and the shadows start to kill again. All seems lost until the local tribesmen arrive.

Turn 9- Descartes gains 1xp from an event. The barbarians are still moving closer.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg?t=1258908689

They explain that they have been in the thrall of the beasts for millennia, but they know how to hold them at bay. Great pyres are made at the corner of the settlement. They blaze day and night keeping away the shadow. Their priests anoint Descartes as a keeper of the light and he stands ready to protect from the hordes.

Turn 10-Axeman is built in Thebes, work starts on a worker. More importantly the Colossus is finished in Das Crepes.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg?t=1258905823
The barbarians are right outside Sanctuary. Dakarai arrives to help defend. We are in no danger of losing it, but we need to get rid of them before we can get workers in to improve the terrain.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg?t=1258905836

Iron Working will finish next turn. Thebes and Pink Dot are both unhappy but that will go away in a turn/two turns when the whip anger subsides.

And so in the dark of night Dakarai arrived, bearing warning. The great hordes were close and the Hunted should stand ready. Descartes stood at the gate a torch in hand ready to drive the monsters away. And the monsters were broken before the light and would not come.

Across the empire his legend has spread and that is why the Colossus at Das Crepes holds a flaming torch. To forever keep away the shadows from our great empire.

I left some stuff for the next person to do when they open up the save. A few workers to move, and decide what to do with the axeman. We've slumped a little in the demographics screen but that should recover with our population regrowth.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg?t=1258905824

We got a new city in a good resource heavy location. Two workers are moving up to improve the location. The colossus got built. Steady slavery based progress.

Save- http://rapidshare.com/files/310655130/General_Playground_BC-0750.CivBeyondSwordSave.html

[Terraoblivion]

Interesting explanation for all the whipping...

Also i want to ask how our work on getting some scientists up is going. And where to proceed from here in a more general sense, since you probably have the best overview at the moment.

Also the second screenshot and the screenshot for turn 9 events are both broken.

[Selrahc]

Also i want to ask how our work on getting some scientists up is going.

We've got a library ready in Thebes and one can be slaved in Pink Dot at any time. I didn't put any up yet though, since I was regrowing from the whips.



And where to proceed from here in a more general sense, since you probably have the best overview at the moment.

Probably another settler in the east to block off the peninsula, then work up the west coast.

[Terraoblivion]

And i tried downloading this save and noticed a few things. First and foremost, Anubis really should move up a square so that he can take advantage of the forest. We won't lose anything as fogbusting goes, but he will be much safer up there.

Also i think we need some more troops to prevent barbarian cities from spawning on our peninsula, it would be bad to have axemen or the like running around in our backyard.

[Winthur]

The age of lunatic bloodthirsty leaders continues. :smallamused: Well done turn, with lots of efficient whipping. :smallsmile:


Probably another settler in the east to block off the peninsula, then work up the west coast.

Any thoughts on the location? I can't get to the save yet to check closely, but the spot at the center of Vimez Valley looks promising in that regard. No resources, but at least a few flood plains and hills.


We've got a library ready in Thebes and one can be slaved in Pink Dot at any time. I didn't put any up yet though, since I was regrowing from the whips.

A library in Das Crepes could work just as well, seeing it's our most food rich city. I'd not like to get out citizens out of cottage growing in Pink Dot to make Scientists, so I'd rather grow Scientists out of Thebes or Das Crepes.

[Terraoblivion]

I cannot help but worry about barbarians. We are at a late enough point that axemen might start spawning soon, so in order to avoid emergencies we could try to look into where our scouts and warriors are standing and see if we can make our fogbusting more effective.

Which spot are you thinking about when you say in the center of the Vimez Valley? The forest just south of the floodplains?

[Winthur]

I'm thinking about the spot where the "Vimez Valley" sign is pointing to. I'd never settle that forest; it's one tile off the coast! :smallyuk:

This spot is kinda meh, but it does have the flood plains...

But I'm not sure. I can't download the save now anyway to see.

[Terraoblivion]

I thought there was a space between them. I initially thought you meant the coastal spot, but then i checked just to be certain and it looked like there was a space between the two and then it would have to be the forest to avoid settling one spot off the coast and still get the flood plains.

[Selrahc]

Oh yeah, forgot to point out that Judaism was founded somewhere.

Vimez valley would be a good blocking spot but wouldn't be a very strong city. If we can get there in time grabbing the gold mountains might be viable for a much stronger city site.

If we get our settlers on the north side of the mountains we can probably stake a claim over the entire area we have mapped out. Hard to keep a hold of it if someone wants to pick a fight though. In the long run it would leave us with two choke points to defend in any war.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg?t=1258922690

[happyturtle]

Players:
Order|Player|Turns played
1|Happyturtle|1-30
2|Murska|31-50
3|Winthur|51-65
4|Terraoblivion|66-75
5|Selrahc|76-85
6|Walter O'Dim|
|Loopy|
?|Eldan|


I'll assume Eldan's install is still fubared until we hear otherwise. Walter, you're up. Also, is anyone going to be afk for Thanksgiving or are we all Europeans?

Disclaimer: I'm actually American by birth, Anglo by marriage, so not really European at all.

[Terraoblivion]

The one you call the southern choke point seems to suffer from a serious lack of food, though. But other than that, it seems reasonable to me. Quite ambitious, but so be it.

And i am European so no Thanksgiving to worry about here.

[Winthur]

I finally got the save and I'd just like to point out that there isn't much point in running two mines in Das Crepes when the city didn't reach it's maximum size yet. I think it'd be of more use to run on max food until the city can't grow anymore without becoming unhappy.

Also:
Zara is willing to trade Ivory! :biggrin: He demands Cow and Copper, but you can give him Cow and Fish (or Cow and Crab) and he'll be glad to accept. I'd say make the trade! We have a surplus of health for the time being, as opposed to happiness. Even if he breaks the deal 10 turns later, it's still 10 turns of additional happy citizen!

Why didn't we open borders with Ethiopia and Maya yet? I checked the effect and the result of opening borders with Ethiopia is that our science rises from +25 to +28 and +1 gold per turn (still on 70% science).

I think both operations are pretty safe now. Pacal and Zara, amazingly enough, don't hate each other for religious differences (they're Cautious and neither has a Worst Enemy). Making trades with AIs gives us diplomatic bonuses, too. And with Open Borders we can scout their lands.

Question: What are we going to tech next? I'm still thinking The Great Library would be pretty helpful to us, but we'd still want that Civil Service and Currency in a timely fashion. (Fortunately, Literature is a cheap tech.)

Also, I'm an European as well; no Thanksgiving here.

[Terraoblivion]

Going for Great Library works for me. It is two techs to get, but shouldn't be much of a problem.

Apart from Aesthetics -> Literature, it seems that we should focus on techs that cause financial benefit. At least if we want to be able to afford expanding and researching at the same time. Our current plans call for covering quite a bit of ground as well as for building quite a few cities and that costs. Calendar would also be a good goal soon, both for the improved value of the tiles by Sanctuary, and for the happiness from the sugar.

And just a happy note. Sanctuary has iron!

[happyturtle]

I'm not much into wonders, but if something is started by the time it gets around to my turn, I'll keep it up.

I love trade. Especially when I'm doing culture and I can sell all my luxury resources and cash starve the rivals. :smallbiggrin:

[Terraoblivion]

I love wonders on the other hand. My typical playstyle is a small, compact country with a few really good cities, which oddly enough proves quite conductive to getting a large amount of wonders.

[Murska]

I like wonders for the videos. :smallbiggrin:

I usually only build a few though. Depending on how the game seems to be turning out, Oracle slingshots are pretty common and such. Great Lighthouse if I'm heavily coastal, Pyramids if I happen to start on stone etc.

[happyturtle]

@^: My computer won't play the videos :smallfrown:

Small is fun. Also fun is the One City Challenge option. You /never/ run out of money.

The only downside is there's no mechanism for a culture win, unless you do a permanent alliance, and most AIs will win the space race long before they get any city other than their capital to legendary.

I've decided the only way I'm going to get any good at war is to turn off the culture option completely on my next game. Last game I played, as the Vikings, I took most of the Carthage empire which was sharing my mini-continent, and then instead of sealing the deal and finishing him off, I reverted back to my old habits and used Carthage as one of my three culture cities.

Totally should have wiped him out though. He didn't have any metals at all, so his army was all catapults and longbows.

[Walter O'Dim]

I tried getting this to work, but it said I needed to use a version under 302?

[happyturtle]

This is the version I'm using:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/btsversion.png

[Selrahc]

I finally got the save and I'd just like to point out that there isn't much point in running two mines in Das Crepes when the city didn't reach it's maximum size yet. I think it'd be of more use to run on max food until the city can't grow anymore without becoming unhappy.

Did pretty much nothing on the final turn of the save. Das Crepes was operating at happy cap until then, and needed full mine production to make the Colossus. So there is some optimising to do. That was kind of intentional, since I like having things to do when I open a save. I did mention that in the report though.

Didn't do any international relations. Mainly through being focussed on empire building. Sorry.

[Celesyne]

I've had this game forever, got it and the x-packs for christmas one year. AAAAAnd I'm absolutely horrendous at it. I've played the base Civ-4 tutorial a hundred times, and I can do the basics, but I get beaten up at even the lowest difficulties by pretty much any enemies. I'm too much of a peaceful researcher/builder than a warmonger. I get a decent ways in to the game and with only a few units per city for defense, the first decently armied civ to declare war on me typically runs me over. It makes me feel like an idiot when I compare my games with games like your own.

[Winthur]

I've had this game forever, got it and the x-packs for christmas one year. AAAAAnd I'm absolutely horrendous at it. I've played the base Civ-4 tutorial a hundred times, and I can do the basics, but I get beaten up at even the lowest difficulties by pretty much any enemies. I'm too much of a peaceful researcher/builder than a warmonger. I get a decent ways in to the game and with only a few units per city for defense, the first decently armied civ to declare war on me typically runs me over. It makes me feel like an idiot when I compare my games with games like your own.

If you can't beat any level below Noble, then this guide (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=314007) is for you.

No, really, I'm serious. It sounds sarcastic, but it's really true. :smallsmile:

I suppose I only started playing past Noble and Prince when I ate the Civilopedia. It REALLY does help. I approached a comfortable Monarch seat when I read all the Sullla's reports (especially the walkthrough) (http://garath.net/Sullla) (but that certainly didn't feel like a chore. It's like an edutainment ride, where it's fun to read and teaches you how to play :smallsmile:).

But the biggest thing is "think". It doesn't pay off to rush your turns. Even if you don't have a lot of experience with this game, you usually just need some proper goals that, if properly executed, will score you a chance at victory.

After a while, you will recognize certain things that work, and some that don't.

So, if you're willing to get better, all I can say is good luck & have fun. :smallwink:

I hope you're having as much fun reading this Succession Game as we have playing it. :smallsmile:

[Terraoblivion]

And remember to try and find ways of keeping other civilizations mollified. I tend to be a peaceful type, but i pretty much never experience the problem of them randomly declaring war at me on Noble. In fact i cannot remember if it has ever happened to me before.

[happyturtle]

I turned the difficulty down to Chieftain and turned off the culture win option to try my hand at conquest. Shaka was right next door to me, so I prepared for an early war against hordes of Impis. But it never happened because he didn't have any copper, and Mansa beat him to the iron. :smallbiggrin:

Mansa asked to be a vassal, so I let him, and then DOW'd on Shaka. After wiping him out, I kept my army moving and went after Asoka. Just when I thought I'd taken out the last city, I discovered that he'd sent a settler off to an island on the south. Took me a while to get a galley there, but the city had no defenders. Bye bye India.

Now I only have Augustus left, who basically has a continent to himself, though there's an isthmus connecting his land to mine.

In retrospect, I dropped the difficulty down too low. I'm way too far ahead on techs for it to be much of a challenge, but I was having a lot of trouble with conquesting on Noble. Next game will be warlord.

[Celesyne]

I'll be giving both of those guides a good perusal, and I'm greatly enjoying this succession game, and might have even offered to play with you folks, if I wasn't so horrid at it :smallbiggrin:

[Selrahc]

So who is up next? Loopy?

[Terraoblivion]

Walter i think, but he seems to not be around.

Also to brag completely shamelessly, i played on from Selrahc's save using the overall strategy we have discussed and achieved a space race victory in 1936. This seems to suggest that blocking off at Mt. Goldteeth and the narrow pass to the northwest of it and then just grabbing the west coast before filling out along the coast to the south is a fairly good strategy for us.

[Winthur]

Walter i think, but he seems to not be around.

I sent him a Private Message, but he didn't respond. If he takes too long, I think we will have to skip him...


Also to brag completely shamelessly, i played on from Selrahc's save using the overall strategy we have discussed and achieved a space race victory in 1936. This seems to suggest that blocking off at Mt. Goldteeth and the narrow pass to the northwest of it and then just grabbing the west coast before filling out along the coast to the south is a fairly good strategy for us.

1936 Space Race in BtS is a rather fine score. :smallsmile: Just don't post any spoilers, m'kay? :smallwink:

[Terraoblivion]

I don't plan on it. Apart from the layout of the map and who the final three civilizations are, it is unlikely to play out similarly anyway.

[Walter O'Dim]

My post will be up in about three hours sorry for the wait.

[Selrahc]

No worries. Just as long as the game isn't stalled.

[happyturtle]

How's it coming, Walter?

[Winthur]

If he stalls so much we might have to skip him... :smallfrown:

[Terraoblivion]

Yes. Let's give him a bit more time, but also see if we can get in touch with Loopy or Eldan in advance. If none of these three can we would just revert to you, happyturtle.

[happyturtle]

Should we move on then, and let Walter take his turn later?

[Selrahc]

Yeah. It's been almost a week.

[happyturtle]

I've PM'd Loopy. Eldan is still off the rotation until he lets us know his computer issues are fixed.

[Eldan]

My Civ doesn't seem to be running anymore. I've reinstalled it with different patches three times now, so I'm out. For some reason, Fall from Heaven is still running, so I'm playing that.

[happyturtle]

Bummer. :smallfrown:

[Terraoblivion]

So let's wait for Loopy and hope for the best. If he proves out of commission too we'll move on to happyturtle.

And that sucks quite immensely, Eldan. It is also quite weird, i wonder how something like that happened.

[Eldan]

Quite, yes. Still, I've found a nice challenge... I'm now playing Falamar on an Archipelago map, tiny islands, high water level, on Deity. So far, it's a load of fun.

[loopy]

Hello all! Read the PM, ready to play. so how is this going to work? I normally play on easiest difficulty and win via teching, so I'll probably need guidance, haha. :smallredface:

[Selrahc]

Really? Hookay. Ummm.. Where to start? Luckily we're only at prince and we aren't under immediate threat.

Read Sulla's walkthrough of the game to get a handle on the advanced concepts. http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4intro.html It is pretty cool. Certainly kickstarted my Civ IV experience.

For the turnset you're on- build a worker in Thebes then start on a settler. Let Das Crepes grow while building a granary then a library. Pink Dot should build a library, if you want to slave it in after the current whip anger goes away(2 turns) I would then start up an axeman or a monastery. Sanctuary will be working on a granary probably for your entire turnset.

Try and improve the tiles around Sanctuary with workers as much as possible. Watch out for barbarians. Good luck!

[loopy]

Actually guys, I'm going to do you all a favor and pull out of this. I've still got too much to read up on before I'm a passable player. I don't want your game to end because I fail, lol.

[happyturtle]

Aww, too bad.

If you follow along and want to hop back into the game later, just speak up.

I guess it's back around to me then. *goes to download save*

[happyturtle]

The Neither Glorious Nor Tragic Reign of Happyturtle II

Under the reign of Happyturtle I, the great civilization of Egypt was founded. But the second ruler of that name is barely a footnote in the history books. Her reign was not a time of greatness. There were no cities founded. Instead of building great wonders, the people of Egypt busied themselves with laying down roads. But there were compensations, for the whip was used sparingly. And Egypt began to trade with her neighbours.

It is for these reasons that Happyturtle II is known as Happyturtle the Ordinary.

Turn 85: Apparently, trinkets carved from the tusks of some creature known as an 'elephant' pleases the peasantry. I make arrangements to trade cow and crab to obtain these trinkets. We also agree to allow free passage in our lands to the citizens of Maya and Ethiopia. This, though we don't actually know where Maya is. :smallconfused:

Axeman Ebo and Warrior Dakarai are sent north to protect the city of Sanctuary from the barbarian menace. RED Scout (Bonk!) heads towards the Ethiopian lands to map them out.

Turn 86: Our wise men report that if we mine the lands south of Sanctuary, we will obtain a metal even stronger than bronze. We shall soon be able to create fierce weapons!

Turn 90: Hearing rumors of a barbarian city, Dakarai bravely goes to investigate.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t90.png

Not to be outdone, Anubis fights off a stack of three barbarian warriors without getting a scratch! Pwnage!

Turn 93: Gondar has no pants. Gondar needs no pants!

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t93.png

Notes:

Sanctuary: connected up the roads, then sent most of the workers north to clear the jungle and improve the land. Still building a granary.

Pink Dot: Finished the library, whipped a temple for moar happy, then whipped a settler. Afraid the citizens are going to be unruly there for some time.

Thebes: Worker, barracks, axeguy. Currently building settler. I didn't do any whipping, but I sent a worker outside the fat cross to chop trees.

Das Crepes: Finished the granary, then whipped a lighthouse.

All cities are at or near their happy cap. Hopefully religion will spread soon.

Anubis should be brought home and upgraded when we can afford it. He's a badass. :smallbiggrin:

Also could do with building some workboats to explore the coastline.



I can't tell if that blue bit in the upper left is Alexander or Pacal.
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t95.png

Zara is starting to spend some commerce on espionage.
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t95-esp.png

Stats:
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t95-dem.png


Over to you, Murska!

Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95
2|Murska|31-50|
3|Winthur|51-65|
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|
5|Selrahc|76-85|
?|Walter O'Dim



Save file (http://rapidshare.com/files/313755687/General_Playground_BC-0500.CivBeyondSwordSave)

[Murska]

What do we want done to that barb city?

[happyturtle]

Burn it. The location sucks. But we may as well let them stay there until the land grab phase is over, since they aren't in our way yet.

[Winthur]

Burn it. The location sucks. But we may as well let them stay there until the land grab phase is over, since they aren't in our way yet.

Agreed, Sugarpigs sucks; I'd say build on Horsepigs and 2Sugars1City for two good cities instead of one mediocre (those plains are ugly).


Finished the library, whipped a temple for moar happy, then whipped a settler. Afraid the citizens are going to be unruly there for some time.

OK, while nothing really wrong happened, I'd just like to say that it's not the best way to whip. It's better to whip only after the unhappiness from the previous whip has worn off, in a 10-turn cycle. Hopefully the fact that we whipped the temple will mitigate the additional :smallfurious: face.

•Also could do with building some workboats to explore the coastline.

Good idea; either a Workboat or a Galley (we could put a Scout on the Galley in case we find any other lands beside those). Or even a Trireme. :smallsmile:


Turn 93: Gondar has no pants. Gondar needs no pants!

...That's... :smalleek: That's not even the Ethiopian capital; Gondar has to be their second city (Aksum is the initial first city for Ethiopians). If that's the case, then holy crap - it's going to be tough to get to that spot thanks to it's strategic positioning, so conqueirng Ethiopia might be hard. And this spot is really too awesome, even despite the peak tiles.

Just as a reminder: We're going to hit Alphabet soon. It's always a good idea not to trade our monopoly techs to anyone until we make sure that we can pull off more techs from it (Imagine this: You have Alphabet and you can sell it to Leader A for Iron Working. Don't do that. Instead, wait for Leader B and Leader C to have, for example, Mathematics and Aesthetics, respectively. Then you might start selling Alphabet, for the highest possible profit.). Just a thought.

Just one question: if we've already agreed (we did, did we?) to settle the White Dot (http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7783/ideaforadotmap.jpg) as a filler city to grab all the Flood Plains and the idle Wheat, then [Gordon Ramsay mode on] WHERE'S THE WHITE DOT??? :smallfurious: :smalltongue:

I mean, I understand we need to get to the West Coast fast, but we have things obstructing us like the barbarian city. It's going to take some time to build enough Swordsmen (yes, Swordsmen. Better at fightning Archers than Axemen.) to obliterate this city and send two Settlers down there. And we have Workers in the area, so it's going to be easy to upgrade all those Flood Plains.

[Murska]

Right. I managed to make our economy crash and burn along with having most of the empire unhappy. Thus unfold the events of...

The Reign of Murska II the Maladroit

Turn 95: The diplomatic envoys towards different nations continue with the signing of an Open Borders agreement with Alexander of Greece(although he's more like Macedonian anyway, but don't say that to his face).
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0000-10.jpg

Turn 97: As we standardized writing symbols, we received as a gift from the gods the ability to tell others of what we know and vice versa. We put this into good use with multiple technology trades.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0001-8.jpg

Meanwhile the Ethiopian lands seem to be rather full of barbarian axemen.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0002-7.jpg

Turn 99: The RED Scout finds the Mayan border. (Is this the same empire as the one behind the Wall? Opinions?)

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0004-7.jpg

Turns 100-105: Riots and revolting, the photographers didn't get to the scene. Economy collapses, madmen preach the end of the world, Complacency is founded as a hiding place along the Nile River for the fleeing upper class. Army grows a bit, slaves toil on projects.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0005-7.jpg

Save is here (http://rapidshare.com/files/313879500/General_Playground_BC-0250.CivBeyondSwordSave.html).

Commentary: Sorry for very uninspired turns and such. I've been a bit busy.

[Selrahc]

(Is this the same empire as the one behind the Wall? Opinions?)

Got to be. Either that or the two of them are insanely squashed together up there while Zara and us have wide open spaces to expand into. I would have guessed Maya as behind the wall anyway since Buddhism managed to spread to us pretty quickly and the wall is fairly close.

[Terraoblivion]

I'd say that he is. Also i would personally recommend going north and trying to seal off Mt. Goldteeth and the other side of that mountain range as quickly as possible. They aren't the greatest spots around, but they give us some breathing room and it is always nice to have gold for the happiness.

[Squark]

Well this seems... Interesting. One more reason for me to think about getting the Civilization IV complete pack from Steam. Unfortunately, it'd be a Christmas present, So I don't see myself being able to participate any time soon.

[Terraoblivion]

Is it just me or does the barbarian city not cover both sources of sugar? I mean it is still on plains which is bad, but i just noticed and thought to mention.

[Winthur]

Is it just me or does the barbarian city not cover both sources of sugar? I mean it is still on plains which is bad, but i just noticed and thought to mention.

Your eyes deceive you, but even though it does cover both sources of Sugar and a Pig, it's still not a desirable city site (mainly because of all the plains).

So, I guess it's time for...

...

...I just realized I'm apparently always going to be Murska's son. :smalleek:

...

*flatlines*

[happyturtle]

No! Murska's my dad, not yours! :smallmad: I'm an only child!

[Winthur]

No! Murska's my dad, not yours! :smallmad: I'm an only child!
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5711/asdsadsadp.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/asdsadsadp.jpg/)

...Is this connected to the matter at hand? :smalleek:

...

But Murska is only a year older than me...

...

I must digest this information. One moment.

...

But it cannot be. This would mean that all my work has been for nothing. Everything that I have tried to... a failure! It can't be. Be. Be. Be.

...

I . . . don't think that I can continue. Continue? To have done the things I have done in the name of progress and healing. It was madness. I can see that now. Madness. Madness? There is no hope. Leave now, leave while you still have hope...

[happyturtle]

Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95
2|Murska|31-50|96-105
3|Winthur|51-65|
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|
5|Selrahc|76-85|
?|Walter O'Dim



Murska! You broke Winthur. :smallsigh:

[Selrahc]

So I probably don't have the time to play this and pay proper attention to it/do a screenshotted report until I've got my end of semester essays in.

I'll be available to play on Thursday, which most probably means I'll be skipping my next turnset.

[happyturtle]

No problem, Selrahc.

[Winthur]

Got the save, I hope I will be able to play it today. I think I can get over my apparent Finnish heritage... :smalltongue:

[Murska]

Oh, I sure hope you'll be able to play it today. My son.

[Winthur]

"Gee, it sure is boring around here...", prince Winthur II sighed loudly as he stretched his arms.
The oldest son in the Happyturtle dynasty was bored out of his wit. All the workers around were bowing to him like he was... some sort of prince, which he found embarassing. All he really wanted to do is play with some of those folks at the playground. Winthur loved to play this old game where there were three distinct kingdoms, one ruled by humans, and the other two - by monsters and aliens. Winthur envisioned himself as the greatest and the most evil of all the monsters that commanded an entire swarm of those horrors, obliterating everyone who stood in his way.

Unfortunately, he couldn't fulfill his dreams just yet. His father took him on a long (and boring!) trip to Das Crepes, although by now it escaped Winthur's mind what is the purpose of all this. "Something bogus about greatness and responsibilities of a ruler, meh. So boring."

"Mah boi, this Great Lighthouse is what all the true leaders strive for", offered Murska II, his father, as if in retailation to his son's visible doubts. Lovable, cheerful, and wise... although it still bummed the prince that his father is such an easy opponent in those games.

"...Meh. I just wonder what Zara's up to", said the boy, and with a good reason. Even though he wasn't really interested in politics, he still wondered whether a war would commence over the eastern gold. After all, that would be... not boring.

* * *

King Murska II was laying on his deathbed, surrounded by all his trusty advisors. They prepared him for the meeting with all his great and noble ancestors.
"You know, I'm not that comfortable about meeting Winthur I. From what I reckoned of the chronicles, he was a nutjob. But still... Winthur was the name I've chosen for my son because I believed it envisioned greatness. Swear that you will trust mah boi, even if he agrees to peace with the heathen Hindus or to the forfeiting of our primest lands, for he's the chosen by the gods and therefore his will is stellar."

"Oh well. Ciao."

Thus begins The Life And Times of King Winthur the Second.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/29/beztytuuyzd.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/beztytuuyzd.jpg/)
King Winthur II, as envisioned in crayon by an 11-year-old Jan Matejko.

Turn 1: Now, the king looked all over the kingdom and decided to bring about some changes.
-Pink Dot doesn't need, in my opinion, to make a scientist, so I've decided to fire him and grow an additional cottage.
-Das Crepes is on max size and growing angry, so I forfeit it's "Supersize Me" mode and put it on a forested grassland hill. It squeezes some additional production with Forge, speeding up the Lighthouse to be built in 8 turns.
-I sent one Worker to Thebes to chop down a tree and plant a Cottage.
-I told the Axeman&Settler pair to go NE.
SCV in Complacence started farming the Wheat.

Turn 2:
"Oh wise and benevolent king Winthur, could you please give us Mayans the secrets of Metal Casting?"
"Well, mah boi", Winthur started off with a quirk that he inherited from his father. 'It's oddly appropriate to use it for people like Little Prince here", he thought to himself. "I'd personally cast Kirk Hammett as a lead guitarist, after all, he's from Metallica, and all. Then, I'd possibly cast Joakim Broden to do the vocals. You know, that guy from Sabaton. And that funny furry that invented Vegetarian Progressive Grindcore as the secondary guitarist."
"That's great news! I knew that Corey Taylor from Slipknot isn't that good choice for vocals at all. I instantly like y--... whoa, wait. Not THAT type of Metal Casting, you d... diggy old chump."
"...Oh, you meant that tech my namesake received about 1200 years ago with the help of blood and flesh of countless slaves, and which is now monopoly, and is one of the trump cards of my mighty empire?"
"That's the one."
"You know who has two thumbs, rules the Playground and hates your idea?", asked the king and, before Pacal could answer, he pointed both of his thumbs towards himself.
"...Bummer. I still like you, though."
"People like me? What a surprise.", Winthur muttered to himself as he existed the Mayan palace. (The king, as his psychiatrist noted, simply can't get over his self-esteem issues. Yes, he keeps getting his butt handed to him by those pesky Terrans and still can't find himself a queen.)

Turn 3:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/87/civ4screenshot0105.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0105.jpg/)http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/civ4screenshot0105.jpg/1/w0.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img46/civ4screenshot0105.jpg/1/)
"Agony Creek"?
"It's a menacing name. Maybe this way the Ethiopians won't try to attack it in case of a war. Besides, I'm kinda fixated on those funny drawings about ducks."

(My reasoning for putting this city here: it's rather easy to defend, it locks all the gold, allows a second city somewhere in the south, and if we farm everything it might be able to produce some units, too. Don't worry about the peaks; those plains wouldn't really help in anything until we reached Biology.)

The barbarian city (whatever it was called) was razed by The Pianist. Somewhere, a movie director with the likeness for loli smiles. Anubis nabs a Barbarian Worker and escorts him back home!

Turns 3 and 4:
King Winthur II visited the city of Pink Dot whose productivity was ravaged by the rebellious new generation.
"Well, tell me about these "oppressed masses", what are they so worked up about?" he demanded from his advisor.
"They're worked up, sir, because they're so poor, they're forced to have children simply to provide a cheap alternative to turkey at Christmas. Disease, depravation and, of course, vast overpopulation stalk our land like... three giant... stalking things."
"Hmmm... how can we help?"
"Zara Yaqob says he has a solution to remedy this problem called 'Monarchy', but we will have to give him either Metal Casting or Alphabet."
"Hm. This goes against the principles of my fine namesake, but..."

"Hello, Ethiopian's branch of Zara's finest weavings, Mea here. How can I help you?"
"......Crap, wrong Zara."

"Hello?"
"Ah, isn't it the finest King Winthur II before my very eyes?"
"Sure, sure. I'm making you an offer you can't refuse."
"Intriguing."
"How would you like the secrets of Alphabet? But only if you teach me Monarchy in return."
"If you throw in 35 gold in return, then sure!"
"Excellent."

"So I'm a king now!", Winthur II savored every word of this sentence.
"But Your Majesty. All of the monarchs of the Happyturtle dynasty were holding a title of a king. Getting Monarchy doesn't mean you have some sort of higher status - you're still a king.
"WHAT? FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-"
"Please stop, sir! It's not in vain! We can switch to Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion now! Don't cry!"
"...oh, okay, then. But still, Zara is a jackass and I have to teach him a lesson!"

"Hey, Alexander, Alexander!"
"...?"
"Could you do something for me?"
"Not in a million years. I'm annoyed with those headache-inducing lectures your Buddhists are giving me."
"Nyoro~n... ...How about I teach you how to Meditate and believe in many gods?"
"OK."
"What do you think of this idea?"
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1046/stuff.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/i/stuff.jpg/)


OK, I know. I just did something... groundbreaking. It was pretty selfish, I guess, to do something like this without discussing it with the team first.

I don't remember when was the last time since I bribed another nation to war with the other. And I don't remember how it is like to see AIs duke it out in a battle. So therefore I decide that Alexander will declare war on Zara. I don't know what good is this going to do since Alexander isn't even visible on the map! In the worst case scenario, there will still be bad blood between the two leaders left. I'm just going to see what will be the consequences of that decision. I'm still comfortable that we're going to be the tech leaders for a long time, and if the war gets drawn out, Zara and Alexander will slow each other down. Plus Alex now likes us more! Well, Zara doesn't, but I don't think he will ever like us.

And since everyone knows Alphabet already, I sold it to Pacal for Monotheism, thus allowing us to do a double civic switch and giving us bonus diplo points with him. It costs more money, but due to Monarchy, we still get more science than before, work more cottages than before... and we're now truly monarchs!

I just wanted to spice up things. If you feel I'm an idiot for this, don't fret to point it out. :smallsmile: I'm just trying to play a Magnificent Bastard, but feel free to ask: "What The Hell, Hero?" I'm still unsure what are going to be the long-term consequences of this decision.

Turn 5:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9062/civ4screenshot0110.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0110.jpg/)

Alex wants us to declare war on the Ethiopians. It's REALLY tempting... but we will lose the Ivory supply and we risk an attack on Agony Creek. On the other hand, we might find an ally in the Greeks, so...

Roll with the punches. I declare war on the Ethiopians.

"I'm an absolute ruler", said Winthur II to his advisors. "I'm going to repent for my deeds only before the God and history."

Turn 6:
I whip the Great Lighthouse in Das Crepes, because it's working unimproved tiles, I'm growing impatient, and the revolting population is useless.

I also pulled out Fenyang from his duty. He's on the route to Agony Creek, just for safety.

Also, at some point (can't recall on which turn), Hinduism spread itself to Sanctuary.

Turn 7:
Great Lighthouse completed. Whip is cracked at Sanctuary to hurry the Hindu Temple.

Turn 8:
Archer in Sanctuary due in 1 turn. Axeman in Das Crepes completed. Fortified to give Monarchy happiness. The Voyager can't proceed further with it's journey, because ice obstructs him.

Turn 9:
Stuff happens.

Turn 10:
Our road linking Pink Dot with Sanctuary got flooded and I'm too cheap to pay for it's repair. Send a Worker there when he's free.

Also, something to keep in mind: if an Ethiopian scout roams around, don't bother with him unless he ends his turn right next to our Axeman or something. He can't attack, so you don't have to run away with our Workers.

Mayans have planted a city on the northern side of the Mt. Goldteeth.

Aesthetics is due next turn. I say we continue on with Literature and then rush to Civil Service as fast as we can. (Get Mathematics from someone if possible.)

ANOTHER barbarian settlement appeared only a few steps from where we'd razed the first one! :smallsigh:

OK, I think I've twisted things around enough. (and my turnset is done already). :smallsmile:

You want it? It's yours, my friend, as long as you have enough KB/s! (http://rapidshare.com/files/314987056/General_Playground_AD-0001.CivBeyondSwordSave.html)

[happyturtle]

Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95
2|Murska|31-50|96-105
3|Winthur|51-65|106-115
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|
5|Selrahc|76-85|
?|Walter O'Dim



It's fun bribing civs to war on each other. :smallbiggrin:

[Terraoblivion]

You gave me a war to deal with? :smalleek:

This should be...interesting. War is the one aspect of this game i am the worst at, by quite a large margin.

Also i agree with your choice of location for Agony Creek, in time that place should be able to get surprisingly good. Especially if it turns out there are more resources in the hills around it.

[Winthur]

You gave me a war to deal with? :smalleek:

This should be...interesting. War is the one aspect of this game i am the worst at, by quite a large margin.

Hey, I'm expecting this thing to be a phony way of alienating the Ethiopians and keeping their hands busy. I didn't declare that war to attack the Ethiopians, and I don't think our cities are in shape to assemble any stacks, especially with Gondar's defensive postion. Don't worry. :smallsmile:

[Terraoblivion]

Good. I'll just keep some defensive units and otherwise go about my business and should Zara come running asking for peace, which is unlikely, i will wring as many concessions out of him as i can.

[happyturtle]

I was playing on a flat map once where I was totally landlocked. There were two nations on the far side of the map from me that everyone hated and kept declaring war on. They'd always ask me to join, and I would, but never sent a single unit to the other side of the world to do anything about it. Still got all the 'our mutual military struggle brings us together' bonuses. It was hilarious.

[Terraoblivion]

Excerpt from the Das Crepes Chronicle

25 AD - And so it came to pass that King Winthur II passed away. Following in the footsteps of this great, but eccentric, ruler, his oldest daughter Queen Terra II took up the throne. Young and untested, she ordered a great temple of the purest marble build in the capital to honor the gods, hoping to inspire her people towards ever increasing greatness. Not content to leave it at prestigious projects of national significance, she also ancient roads that had been neglected and put her people to work connecting Agony Creek with the rest of the playground.

50 AD to 100 AD - Great public works continued in the playground, though none came to fruition at this date. Years of peaceful reflection and prosperity engulfed the land.

125 AD - A year of many great and important events, the year 125 AD saw the queen's patronage of the arts reach a new high as many of the ancient legends of our people came to be written down bringing a great revolution to the field of storytelling.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0057.jpg

This year also saw the disciplined warrior Dakarai retreat in the face of overwhelming opposition to call for the aid of The Pianist in defeating the barbarian menace. A good year for the military, this year also saw the city of Das Crepes train a new company of axemen to quell the unrest in Pink Dot.

250 AD - After many tranquil, uneventful years the queen felt age press on her and the grave looming ever closer. In a final act of greatness she passed a series of laws, bringing new, greater order to the lands of the playground than there had been ever before.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0058.jpg

And jumping out of this silly, very fake sounding chronicle style i will give some more reasonable comments about what happened. My turn was mostly uneventful with no great topics in the fields of diplomacy, construction or war. Apart from beginning construction of the Parthenon, it might be a foolish endeavor, but it should help us get the great people much of our planning so far has involved. Apart from that i am training a settler to grab more of the lands to the north and have brought The Pianist up by the barbarian city if you believe an attack would succeed, Selrahc. I personally have my doubt.

Also i got Mathematics from Pacal meaning that we are heading straight towards Civil Service. In general i think things are going well, though i should probably have been more proactive on my turn here. And we are still number 1 or close to it in everything that matters.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0059.jpg

And here is the save (http://rapidshare.com/files/315039306/General_Playground_AD-0250.CivBeyondSwordSave.html).

[Winthur]

That was a good turnset. I checked the save and I only have one peeve with it: Pink Dot has a lot of food in stock and it could grow to size 8 in one turn (claiming, for example, another water tile or a plains forest). But it's building a Settler and has a Worker in schedule. I'd say that for one turn it should build something that's not a Worker or Settler, and when it grows, resume Worker/Settler production and send one of the guarding Axemen to Thebes, because it's at it's happy cap, and yet there are many upgraded tiles it can't work.

Sanctuary is on the happy cap, so it can stop working Corn for a while in favor of a grassland cottage.

Here's one thing you might or may not consider doing: Pacal can join the war against Zara for Code of Laws. If you feel like it, pay him to do the Ultimate Dogpile, but it's not necessary. Just pointing out that you can do it. :smallsmile:

Oh, and watch out for our units. Remember we're at war with Zara, so make sure our feeble units (like Scouts) don't enter his lands.

[happyturtle]

Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played|
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95|136-145
2|Murska|31-50|96-105|
3|Winthur|51-65|106-115|
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|116-125|
5|Selrahc|76-85|126-135|




Selrahc, I don't mind waiting a day or two for you to run your turnset, unless you really want to skip it this time.

[Selrahc]

Well I should be able to run it tomorrow afternoon. If that is an alright delay then I'll take my go. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Yay!

:smallsmile:

[Selrahc]

Download Link (http://rapidshare.com/files/316030227/General_Playground_AD-0520.CivBeyondSwordSave.html). I played this out on the afternoon and was writing out my report when it was time for the weekly pub quiz. Went out to do that, won that and then spent the evening celebrating and drinking the prize money.

I'll get a screenshotted report up tomorrow sometime, when I've sobered up. Here are my play notes from earlier and the save, so I don't delay things.

Turn 0-Once we have the last blocking city up then we can backfill land at our leisure. We may be under the yoke of maintenance costs somewhat, but I really don’t want Pacal sneaking a settler into our domain. Accordingly I slave a settler in Pink Dot.
I also switch convalescence from a market to a courthouse. The courthouse will be better for our finances, and when we boost the science rate back up after the market won’t be doing much for us.
Turn 1-Send the settler up under axeman escort.
Turn 2- Parthenon builds. Bring Pacal into the war for metal casting. Zara is this continents pariah.
Turn 3-Uneventful
Turn 4-No one can say Anubis is not the king of the jungle.
Turn 5-Makes me wish scouts could attack.
Turn 6- Granary in agony creek. Gatehouse is founded. Should be a decent enough soldier pump and we now should own the entire region at our leisure. Great scientist is born in Thebes. Courthouse slaved in Coalescence to meet rising expenses. Red scout’s prospects do not look good.
Turn 7-Yeah. Bye Red Scout. On the bright side we get an academy in Pink Dot.
Turn 8- An annoying event adds unhappiness to Das Crepes. Forgot to screenshot it. Decide to build Maoi statues there as Das Crepes has decent land production and a lot of water tiles. Could turn into quite a good hammer city. Science drops down to 40% as cities regrow. Definitely need to trim the expenses and up the coin yield.
Turn 9-Gold is connected. This massively improves the situation immediately. Pacal has Calendar and I would recommend we trade for it as soon as possible. Science to 50%. Incedentally, when did we settle a great Prophet in Thebes?
Turn 10-Umm… Looks like some sort of bug in Pink Dot. I slaved a settler in ten turns ago. Since then it hasn’t grown a single population point. I’m actually at a loss to understand what has happened. If it wasn’t a bug I’d be obliged if someone can explain. Borders of Gatehouse grew. Nothing much else happened.


If people want to wait until I've got a real report up then that is fine. I just didn't want to delay things over much.

[Terraoblivion]

The lack of growth of Pink Dot is definitely a very interesting question. I have downloaded the save and poked around. And it seems like it just won't grow. Trying to kickstart it by whipping, with the effects on storing food that has, doesn't help either. Just about the only thing i have tried yet is have it finish producing something that uses food.

[happyturtle]

Ooh weird.

I won't get to look at this until tomorrow, so if anyone figures out the bug before then, speak up.

[Winthur]

Turn 9-Gold is connected. This massively improves the situation immediately. Pacal has Calendar and I would recommend we trade for it as soon as possible. Science to 50%. Incedentally, when did we settle a great Prophet in Thebes?

My fault. I should definitely mention that in spite of our best wishes, we generated a Prophet in Thebes when we should get a Scientist for the Academy. I've decided - once again, on pretty much a whim - that I'm going to settle him right on the turn we got him, because we were still losing some money from the expansion, and Thebes was building a lot of things, so +2 hammers seemed nice for this city. I humbly apologize if the way I play seems to be a bit too Single Player for your tastes. :smallfrown: I figured I don't have a better way to use this guy, and the earlier he gets to work, the better.


Turn 10-Umm… Looks like some sort of bug in Pink Dot. I slaved a settler in ten turns ago. Since then it hasn’t grown a single population point. I’m actually at a loss to understand what has happened. If it wasn’t a bug I’d be obliged if someone can explain. Borders of Gatehouse grew. Nothing much else happened.

Check whether the "Avoid Growth" button is "ON". If it is, the city simply won't grow no matter what, and it will stay stuck on it's food supply.

[Selrahc]

My fault. I should definitely mention that in spite of our best wishes, we generated a Prophet in Thebes when we should get a Scientist for the Academy. I've decided - once again, on pretty much a whim - that I'm going to settle him right on the turn we got him, because we were still losing some money from the expansion, and Thebes was building a lot of things, so +2 hammers seemed nice for this city. I humbly apologize if the way I play seems to be a bit too Single Player for your tastes.:smallfrown: I figured I don't have a better way to use this guy, and the earlier he gets to work, the better.


I think he might have been better served lightbulbing theology, but it's not exactly a bad decision. Certainly is helping us keep up with maintenance costs.

I was just wondering if I missed something since I didn't recall a prophet being mentioned.


Check whether the "Avoid Growth" button is "ON". If it is, the city simply won't grow no matter what, and it will stay stuck on it's food supply.

That was it. Damn. Well, we lost out on ten turns of growth in Pink Dot for no good reason then.

EDIT: We might want to build the Hanging Gardens sometime soon. When Agony Creek gets its border pop we can quarry the stone and then the wonder is practically a steal. We just need to prep Thebes with an aqueduct before hand.

[happyturtle]

I usually settle rather than lightbulb too. But yes, the births of great peoples should definitely be recorded in our illustrious history books. :smallsmile:

[Terraoblivion]

Yes. We should remember that in the future. Just like all wonders should stay noted, like they have so far.

[happyturtle]

It's All About the Money, Honey

Happyturtle III came to the throne during a recession, but was generally regarded as one who led the kingdom to a period of peace and prosperity.

This was pretty much a turnset devoted to rebuilding our economy after the rapid expansion. I wonder if I'm always going to be the practical one? Don't worry, I don't mind that role. :smallbiggrin:

Turn 136 - Try to trade Pacal Code of Law for Calendar, but no go. And not enough money in the treasury to sweeten the pot. War with Zara cuts off our trade route to Pacal? We'll have to work on that. I guess a road or two in GateHouse should fix that problem.

Turn 137 - Have to kill off some Barbarians near sanctuary. Start building courthouses in Pink Dot and Agony Creek.

Turn 138 - We lost the Workboat Voyager to a barbarian galley. The Great Library is finished in Thebes. Decide to grow a worker, there and in Sanctuary. Boring but practical. The Pianist dies trying to wipe out the new barb city. :smallfrown:

Hmm... we have lots of cities with no religion. Normally religion spreads along trade routes to godless cities, but Thebes and Das Crepes haven't caught any. Not good. Better start cooking some missionaries.

Turn 139- Happiness problems as the cities grow.

Turn 140- Finally have enough gold to trade for Calender. Pacal takes CoL plus 48gp. We get started on farming sugar. We change to Bureaucracy and start researching Drama. Christianity is founded somewhere.

Turn 141- Ethiopians raze one of the Mayan cities that was on our border. Send workers north to work on plantations. Send Dakarai to sentry over the potential sugar city site.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t141.png

Turn 142 - Ethiopia and Maya make peace, so I decide to do so as well. Zara gives me 15 gold for a ten turn peace treaty. And Huzzah... the trade networks are open again! At once, I swap cow for spice, which immediately helps with the happy.

Turn 143 - Research budget is still low, but I continue to keep it that way to build a treasury. Most of the other civs are behind us in tech, except Pacal, so we need to give them time to catch up if we want more trades. I trade Civil Service for Machinery. We might have to go to war with Pacal if he's at risk of getting too far ahead of us though, but I don't think that's a worry at the moment.

Turn 144- Great Merchant Magellan is born in Das Crepes. I send him north to Mutal for a trade expedition. A nice influx of cash will let us upgrade all our outdated warriors. With that coming, I up research to 60%. We could use him for Paper, but with our tech being ahead, I don't think it's necessary. Though Murska has plenty of time to catch him and change his aim if he wants. It'll take Magellan ten turns to get to Mutal, though if the workers get the road between Gatehouse and Mayapan built before he gets there, that will cut down that time a bit.

Turn 145- send workers to build a road towards the potential city site by the two sugars. Achieve Drama. Begin researching Compass. Time to focus on the seas, I think.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t145a.png

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/civ4t145b.png

General Thoughts:
We should probably come up with a consensus on National Wonders. Pink Dot seems like a good spot for a GP farm. National epic there? Where do we want the Heroic Epic?

I recommend having a settler ready to go after razing the barb city, so another won't spawn right away. I didn't settle anywhere during this turnset because I wanted to rebuild our shattered economy.

Zara is still furious at us, and I don't like being so far behind in power. But he doesn't seem to have copper or iron, so I don't think we have much to worry about. :smallbiggrin: Gondar and Aksum are possible future targets, especially with Aksum being the Hindu holy city. Though it does spread out our kingdom a bit. Hopefully I can trust Murska to start building an army and upgrading our troops.

Sorry about the lack of screenshots and rather boring narrative. :smalltongue:

Save File (http://rapidshare.com/files/316607521/General_Playground_AD-0700.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played|
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95|136-145
2|Murska|31-50|96-105|
3|Winthur|51-65|106-115|
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|116-125|
5|Selrahc|76-85|126-135|

[Winthur]

Pink Dot seems like a good spot for a GP farm.

:smallconfused: I don't think so. Haven't we agreed we're going 100% cottage cheese here? The cottages won't grow if citizens won't work on them, so I think it's counterintuitive.

It's much more likely that Sanctuary or Das Crepes would be more accustomed to spawning Great People.

We should settle the Sugar site soon, too.

May I ask why did we research Drama? It's not that important of a tech, we don't need Theatres right now (not much cultural pressure except a bit from Mayapan, no war weariness, no Dyes), and we could rather do with other techs like Calendar. Going Drama in this case would make more sense if we went after Music to get a free Great Artist afterwards.


Zara is still furious at us, and I don't like being so far behind in power. But he doesn't seem to have copper or iron, so I don't think we have much to worry about.

You forgot elephants. :smallwink:

[happyturtle]

You're right. Pink Dot =/= GP farm. Silly me.

We already got Calendar by trade, and I was tired of dealing with unhappy citizens. Hence Drama. Of course it turned out most of our unhappiness was caused by being godless pagans and/or heathens in all but two cities. Kind of silly to have a state religion if we aren't using it. :smalltongue:

[Winthur]

We already got Calendar by trade, and I was tired of dealing with unhappy citizens. Hence Drama. Of course it turned out most of our unhappiness was caused by being godless pagans and/or heathens in all but two cities. Kind of silly to have a state religion if we aren't using it.

Tight budget, I guess. Maybe one city with decent enough production should be put onto a Missionary duty? (Whipping Missionaries?... It would revolutionize the industry!)

And I would only use the luxury bar if I had to take care of war weariness. Otherwise, I wouldn't touch it (unless I was trying to achieve Cultural Victory, maybe). It hampers with the science rate way too much to be worth it.

If we're that tight on happiness issues, we should get those Calendar resources ASAP and maybe, since we already got Drama, continue on to Music and build Notre Dame?

But I don't know. I can't check the save right now, I don't see the big picture.

[happyturtle]

The culture slider is a quick fix to heal unhappiness in the turns it takes to build a temple or theatre or acquire a new resource.

Religion normally would have spread a bit better on its own. It's one thing if the 'wrong' religions spread into your land, but it's very odd when your two oldest cities have no religion at all.

Instead of whipping missionaries, we should think of it as the Inquisition. :smallbiggrin:

[Selrahc]

Yeah. Oxford in Pink Dot. Probably Wall Street there too unless we capture a religious centre.

I'd say we could definitely turn Das Crepes into a production centre though. Maoi, Ironworks, bronze, mines and workshops would leave it with some eminently respectable hammer production. The other site for Iron Works would be the capital.

[Murska]

It's time for... nothing in particular.

Murska the Third is, in most places, remembered as just a footnote in history. But military records show a marked increase in military spending during his reign, which might've heralded the events to come.

Pretty boring turnset of nothing of note happening.

Things of note:

Turns 146-150 - Some barbarians attack our lands and are thwarted.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0006-6.jpg

Turn 152 - A great scientist appears in Thebes and we task him with the construction of an Academy.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0007-7.jpg

Turn 153 - Our invention of Music grants us the boon of a Great Guitarist who travels to Pink Dot and waits there for the next leader's decision on what to do.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0008-7.jpg

Turn 154 - Magellan reaches his destination and brings in an influx of cash with a successful trade mission. Most of this money is spent modernizing the army.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0010-5.jpg

Turn 155 - Murska the Third dies of mysterious causes.

Doesn't this map remind you of something?

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0011-5.jpg

Anyway, here is the save (http://rapidshare.com/files/316841626/General_Playground_AD-0900.CivBeyondSwordSave.html).

[Terraoblivion]

That is right, Murska. You live all the way up there beyond the Mayas...while me and Winthur are Mayas i guess. And this does look sorta like we are taking over Africa.

[happyturtle]

Darn. Wanted to poke around in the save file, but no more free downloads. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Has anyone used mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/)? They say they don't have download limits.

[happyturtle]

Got the save file emailed me from Murska. :smallsmile:

Notes:


Winthur, be sure and upgrade Anubis, stat! He's our only level 4. There are also two more level 2 warriors that need improving.

Can't believe we still don't know where Alex lives. How the hell are we trading with him? :smalltongue:

Happiness issues seem to have vanished everywhere but Coalescence. Probably because it only has one soldier stationed there.

Thoughts on bumping up the espionage slider to 10-20%? I don't tend to do much with spies, but I like having research and city visibility, and we can probably afford the tech loss.

We have excess gold and cow to trade. Sadly, no one wants our wheat. I try to make sure I'm trading off most of my excess resources, even if it means just giving it away for a relationship bonus. They're not doing anything otherwise.

Re: Joe Satriani: Theology might have been worth lightbulbing if Christianity was still available. Since it's not, I'd say either settle him somewhere or go for the Golden Age. The latter would give us a nice boost to finish off our expansion of the continent.

And after we have the continent, I want to take Gondar and Aksum. Or maybe I'm just being greedy.

After Optics, we send out Caravels for the circumnavigation bonus, of course. But should we delay getting Astronomy? It obsoletes our Colosses, which will hurt, but will the additional trade routes make up for it? I don't know enough to say.

[Selrahc]

Thoughts on bumping up the espionage slider to 10-20%? I don't tend to do much with spies, but I like having research and city visibility, and we can probably afford the tech loss.

The spy slider is pretty useless. Certainly using it to gain research and city visibility is a waste of commerce. Stealing tech can work, but I'd rather just leave us with a maximized science rate and stay tech leader.



After Optics, we send out Caravels for the circumnavigation bonus, of course. But should we delay getting Astronomy? It obsoletes our Colosses, which will hurt, but will the additional trade routes make up for it? I don't know enough to say.

It will certainly end up making up for it. Remember that astronomy comes with the observatory building to up science rate and international trade routes carry a hefty bonus even before Customs Houses.

It's a lower priority than it would be though.




We have excess gold and cow to trade. Sadly, no one wants our wheat. I try to make sure I'm trading off most of my excess resources, even if it means just giving it away for a relationship bonus. They're not doing anything otherwise.

It's important to remember that the computer are city management idiots a lot of the time. They'll have much lower happy caps than human cities since they don't build garrison troops for hereditary rule or prioritize happy resources.

If you give them a free resource it can be of great benefit to them. I'd only do it if we are on at least friendly terms or if we get something back.



And after we have the continent, I want to take Gondar and Aksum. Or maybe I'm just being greedy.

We are definitely going to get rid of Zara sooner or later so fire away.

[Winthur]

•Thoughts on bumping up the espionage slider to 10-20%? I don't tend to do much with spies, but I like having research and city visibility, and we can probably afford the tech loss.

OBJECTION! Doing this kind of thing isn't really that good of an idea. Like Selrahc said, research and city visibility isn't really worth it. When it comes to espionage, you either plan at the early stages of the game that you're going to hire lots of Spies, build Great Wonders like Great Wall, send Great Spies on investigations, etc. Otherwise Espionage is only a novel thing. We're too far in a set game plan to meander from it in this way, and I don't think the delay in tech is worth it. After all, it's a lot easier to take over your entire continent with Riflemen when the opponent has only Macemen, not Riflemen, isn't it?

It's much better in Civ to focus on one goal, instead of doing this kind of thing. If we want intel on our opponents, we are better off to perform it when we, like, NEED it. (For example, we can possibly turn off our EP spending with Pacal if he's to be our friend, because I don't see any harm coming from this. The Pacal points could go into sappin' Zara's sentry.)

There was a pretty ballin' game on Civfanatics where a guy won on Immortal using an "Espionage Economy" where he stole a ton of techs from his rivals. Pretty fun read, but I don't have the link at the moment.


It will certainly end up making up for it. Remember that astronomy comes with the observatory building to up science rate and international trade routes carry a hefty bonus even before Customs Houses.

It's a lower priority than it would be though.

True, again. This is a low priority tech to us (we're not planning on continental invasions, are we?), since there are many other good techs we can take instead before this one. I'd say we should still get to Liberalism first.


It's important to remember that the computer are city management idiots a lot of the time. They'll have much lower happy caps than human cities since they don't build garrison troops for hereditary rule or prioritize happy resources.

If you give them a free resource it can be of great benefit to them. I'd only do it if we are on at least friendly terms or if we get something back.

I tend to do it only with health resources because their impact on the cities is much smaller than that of happiness restraints. It's true that AI has an atrocious method of governing the cities and is rather bad at accumulating resources, so he benefits a LOT from them.

•Winthur, be sure and upgrade Anubis, stat! He's our only level 4. There are also two more level 2 warriors that need improving.
OK, but remember we REALLY can't let him die. A level 4 means an unlocked Heroic Epic, and we WANT the Heroic Epic, preferrably in a city with no commerce purpose whatsoever. (this way, all this city would need is Barracks, happiness and production to pump out endless units)


•Re: Joe Satriani: Theology might have been worth lightbulbing if Christianity was still available. Since it's not, I'd say either settle him somewhere or go for the Golden Age. The latter would give us a nice boost to finish off our expansion of the continent.

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure. Bulbing Theology isn't a bad idea at all - Theology is a pretty expensive tech, useful for trading.
Settling him basically makes our borders stronger for a long-term period, while using the Great Work ("Culture Bomb") establishes them for short-term.
Golden Age is best for when you already have all your cities working upgraded tiles and on their happy cap, so we need to push growth and time it.

And after we have the continent, I want to take Gondar and Aksum. Or maybe I'm just being greedy.

OF COURSE! First Gondar, then... THE WORLD!!! :smallbiggrin:

(When I get the save, though. :smalltongue: )

[happyturtle]

Want me to email it to you?

[Winthur]

It would be really nice of you ---> cthwinth@[removethis]gmail.com :smallsmile:

Although I really can't play right now.

[HamHam]

I keep reading Gondar as Gondor. Which is pretty funny.

[happyturtle]

Once we take the city, we totally need to rename it. :smallbiggrin:

[Winthur]

Just in case, people: I'm not dead, but I can't put the save here right now, and I don't have time to write a proper report for the day. Sorry to delay. Anyway, I just micro'd. I didn't do anything with Satriani. You might find the position of our new city questionable (it claims horse, pigs, and leaves out on the wheat), but I have a reason for it.

I think our communication is a bit off the hook I see is we don't seem to discuss things quite enough. Right now, I realized that I don't really know the general agreement on where to settle the next city, so I put it on a spot that not everyone might like, but I will try and justify it. :smalltongue:

Stay tuned for more CSI. I will post a deserving report and the save tomorrow.

[Winthur]

The Melancholy of Winthur III
[I feel the double post is justified here]

Turn 0:

"We've completed a full report of your acquisitions, my lord. Your father, king Murska III, gods bless his noble soul, has set your cities on a unit buildup mode. As such, Thebes is a production/commerce hybrid cranking out Macemen. Pink Dot is concentrating on building thriving commerce centers on its outskirts, and as such, is nearing it's happy cap and building a Market."
"I'm content with all that, just make sure that Sanctuary and Thebes are growing to their happy caps, we want more cottages and population."
...
"...My lord... Thebes..."
"Thebes and Sanctuary aren't working food tiles. Sanctuary has been building a Settler and using a mine and a forested plains hill tile. Thebes has been on a production mode and it's farms and cottages are left unattended, and a scientist has been hired there as well."
...

"...The governors who have been in charge of running Thebes and Sanctuary stay here. The rest of you - leave."
...

"THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! What on Earth was your freakin' idea?! Thebes and Sanctuary should have for many homes for more Playgroundian people, but there's not enough food to encourage the cities' growth?! We should get that food cranking there! People are freaking power in this universe! What the hell is the point of squeezing a Maceman a few turns earlier when the city is not growing?! Why is Sanctuary deploying a Settler when it still has place for a ton of happy people?!
"My Fuhrer! I mean, lord! We're preparing a campaign against Ethiopia, we also want to raze the barbarian city, and the Scientist was here to inspire more youths to--"
"BULL****! I don't care about anything like that! You must realize I AM the Monarch around here, and you're just freakin' Nobles! Or Princes! Or even Warlords! Hell, I can name a few of you who should go with the Sanctuarian Settlers! You must realize, GROWTH IS POWER! If we are going to war, we need big production powerhouses! Barbarians?! Bah! We have Macemen, they have but ARCHERS, for Buddha's sake! Scientist?! His pals at the Great Library are doing great already! And that Settler can be built just as well by Das Crepes or Agony Creek! If the cities have food and can grow in a matter of a few turns, all you should do is focus on food!

...I will... repair your mistakes, gentlemen. Excuse me for that bit of a rage... Leave now."


(Long story short: we have cities that can grow to bigger size, which is going to be really useful long term, but those cities are going slow-growth route to build infrastructure [Thebes] or they've whipped a Settler when they should be working Cottages [Sanctuary]. I'm not really that pissed off as I'm trying to look like I am, but it's just a simple micromanagement flaw that I think I should point out for those of us who are still learning. Also, I'm once again in a mood for referencing certain films you (possibly) know. Yes, that ugly dork is me.)

So basically, I just micromanaged a bunch of cities in one turn so that they work properly. I was really happy for Sanctuary and I let it finish it's Settler, and I switched Thebes to more food-nutritious tiles. I've also started Mausoleum of Mausollos, on the principle of "Eh, maybe we will get lucky". I wasn't planning for that wonder at all.

Turn 1: I send the Settler in Sanctuary towards the barbarian city. Cities grow. Barbarian Galley spawns near our coastline. Pacal II is striving to resettle his junk city.

Turn 2: *thumb twiddling*

Turn 3: We have Optics! Man in Chainsaw is in place for an attack. He attacks with 88% chances to win... and loses the fight! :smallfurious:

Alexander: Greetings, Winthur. I've decided to visit you to check out on that play you've recommended me every time we talked.
Winthur: Welcome, Alexander. Pretty neat, it's my favourite play of all time. So what's up?
Alexander: Yeah, I'm kinda in the mood of it. See, in this world there are two kinds of people, my friend. Those with aggressive personalities, and those who tech for me. You tech for me.
Winthur: Not quite smoothly said but... yeah, I will give ya credit for that try. Code of Laws has been achieved by everyone else anyway, so you didn't even have to intimidate me.
Alexander: Thank you. May Shiva watch over you.

(Even though Alex doesn't even have Code of Laws or Machinery, he stays at the top of the power graph, so let's not piss him off for the time being. And CoL is outdated by this point anyway.)

Turn 4: Theostatos takes revenge for Man with Chainsaw. He's a little wounded, but can take City Raider II.

Turn 5:
#####
#.<@K..
#####
Theostatos hits the Barbarian Archer with full force. The Barbarian Archer is killed!
Theostatos razes Anasazi. Congratulations! Theostatos has achieved Level 3.
(Pick Talent: City Raider II)

Turn 6: I decide to plant a new city in the Horsepigs spot. It omits the wheat, but I think it will be fine. I have plans for a wheat & wines & FP city.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4407/civ4screenshot0115t.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0115t.jpg/)

The spot I've chosen for our next city omitted the Wheat tile. I think we could make two cities, one with horsepigs and the other with wheat, one wine tile, flood plains and a coastal access. It will be minor, but I think it will work, plus a luxury resource is always desired.

Also, I've turned a few Petty Criminals into Missionaries in Das Crepes... er... I mean, I've slipped a few Buddhist Missionary builds in Das Crepes for additional happy and culture in cities that aren't Buddhist yet.

Turn 7, Turn 8, Turn 9: Just buildings here and there. Agony Creek and Gatehouse are experiencing some tensions on borders with the Mayans (they're overtaking our tiles culturally), so I've decided to put those cheap Theatres and Libraries into use. Also, I've chopped a tree or two in Agony Creek and made farms so that this city may grow. Gatehouse is slowly but steady building it's infrastructure. A Caravel in Das Crepes is built and goes on to explore the world.

Turn 10: I convert Agony Creek to Buddhism using one of the Missionaries I've built in Das Crepes.

Some notes:
-Theostatos is City Raider II and can move on to the new Barbarian settlement. He should capture it instead of razing, just for the sake of making things easier for another settler, so wait for this Barbarian city to reach size 2, then capture it, if possible.
-It looks like Domino City is another good Cottage site.
-All our cities should reach their happy cap, only then should we start major war investment. It's not a good idea to wage war with an underdeveloped country.
-We didn't manage to build Mausoleum of Mausollos, but we have lots of spare cash.
-No, I didn't upgrade Anubis. Sorta went over my head. :smallredface: Sorry, happyturtle, it appears I REALLY don't listen to people at all. :smallsigh:
-Sistine Chapel is building in Thebes. Might help with the border fights, and besides there isn't really anything to do (we don't need a lot of Macemen right now).
-I've put a few indicators here and there that I think we should do as soon as it is possible for our civilization.

Techs learned this turnset: Paper, Philosophy, Optics.

Here's (http://rapidshare.com/files/318592692/General_Playground_AD-1050.CivBeyondSwordSave.html) the savefile.

Howgh!

[happyturtle]

And Rapidshare isn't sharing again. :smallyuk:

[Winthur]

Well, my IRL name is Nicholas, and since it's Christmas soon, I think it's my job to share.

So check your mail. :smallwink:

[Terraoblivion]

So King Winthur III has a silly mustache, gets angry about everything and has a variable ability to remember the name Stalin?...Good that i am not one of his subjects.

[happyturtle]

Terra, you're up.

Players:
Order|Player|Turns|played|
1|Happyturtle|1-30|86-95|136-145
2|Murska|31-50|96-105|146-155
3|Winthur|51-65|106-115|156-165
4|Terraoblivion|66-75|116-125|
5|Selrahc|76-85|126-135|

[Terraoblivion]

I know. I have been a bit busy these last few days. I will try and take my turnset today or tomorrow.

[Terraoblivion]

Lacking a funny angle to spin on it, i'm afraid my writing this turnset will be a bit lackluster. Hopefully i will do both useful and interesting things over the course of it. Or at least one of the two.

Turn 0 - Surveying the land i find that things are as good looking as they always are when i start my turnsets. The barbarian swordsmen about to pillage our cows near Gatehouse bugs me though. Hopefully The Nameless will arrive in time to stop them on his way to the barbarian city. More interestingly and quite possibly more stupidly, i jeopardize our Sistine Chapel by trading Paper, Philosophy and Music to Pacal in exchange for Feudalism and Engineering. It favors him somewhat, but if we really want to start a genuine war against Zara they will be helpful to have. Sorry if i messed up anybody's plans.

Turn 1 - Zara built the Apostolic Palace and now demands that i decide whether i support Alexander or Zara. This is a no-brainer of course and i vote for Alexander, even if just to spite Zara.

Turn 3 - Anubis finally gets his promotion to Maceman, but otherwise nothing happens.

Turn 4 - Lots of things happen this year. Following up on the caravel in Das Crepes i make a gamble to try and work on a solution for our happiness issues and begins building Notre Dame, hopefully we won't lose it to Pacal. To the north, F City is founded at the spot below the sugar, reports of strangely dressed people hiding in the sewers spring up immediately. Finally Winthur's junk finds if not land then at least a cultural border and meets Sitting Bull, the most pathetic guy around at the moment. I traded Horseback Riding for Code of Laws, the latter is outdated while the first will be useful should we decide to attack.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk233/terraoblivion/Civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0091.jpg

And swapping maps with him speaks a clear language about the shape of the world. It also reveals where the last two religions went and who our other opponents are. Seems like we have Vikings and Persians over there.

Turn 7 - The Sistine Chapel is finished just as we enter the renaissance through means of real education. Met Ragnar too. He is even more pathetic than Sitting Bull and seems to have absolutely nothing to offer us. At least he is not much of a threat either.

Kazakh captured by Theostrates and quickly renamed Helmajistan for reasons that some might know.

Turn 9 - That bastard Zara is putting his spies to use and wrecks a gold mine. Reconstruction of it begins.

Turn 10 - Nothing very interesting happens this day either. The closest is that the caravel sent east discovers an island, though i am not quite sure how large it is.

Notes:
- Two new cities have been added and between sugar and hopefully Notre Dame we should not have happiness problems in a while.
- Establishing contact with the Persians would be a good idea, though i wouldn't want to risk losing the circumnavigation bonus for achieving it now. Besides if they are like the other two civs on their continent they really don't have much to offer.
- Science is starting to be a bit slow, so getting some universities and libraries up seems like a good idea

And a handy link for the save (http://rapidshare.com/files/319648693/General_Playground_AD-1150.CivBeyondSwordSave.html)

[Selrahc]

1. We still don't know where Alex is! He must be on the far side of our continent.

2. Definitely looking like an Earth like map. The new civs seem to be on an America like continent, which would make the eastern galleon the discoverers Nova Australasia.

3. We can hold off on teching liberalism until Pacal has education. We want to get the best technology possible from the discovery.

4. We can make a wines city, and a city with a decent amount of grassland at 2E of Smaug's Lair. Aside from that the rest of "Africa" is horrible. We need to find some good city sites. Maybe one at twin peaks to close off the continent.

5. Alternatively, ripping Zara to shreds would give us a good chunk of land and cities. I'd doubt that any AI could outtech us if we had that set of land.

6. We're fairly close to biology. A perfect storm GP generator would be National Park with large forests coupled with National Epic. If we can find a heavily forested spot, that would be incredible.

[happyturtle]

What victory are we going for anyway? Space or domination? :smallconfused:

[Terraoblivion]

That is indeed a good question, happyturtle. I have wondered about that as well, though i cannot remember if i asked earlier. Anybody got any suggestions for what we want? While it is certain that we could get Space, it is kind of a boring victory i think, so perhaps we should go for something else.

[Winthur]

What victory are we going for anyway? Space or domination?

Given the backwardness of our continental opponents, I think we could dominate them after we hit Rifling and Astronomy. Maybe with help of some epic drafting.

But first we need to conquer our continent. Zara is already alienated, we can bribe allies to kill him and then turn on them as well. :smallamused:

Whatever we choose, I vote we have some military fun first. Zara has to die.

Nice avatar, happyturtle. :smallwink:

[Selrahc]

Oh heck. I've just remembered that I'm after Terra. I'll play it out tomorrow.

[Murska]

Today, then. Bumping up so you can avoid doublepost.

[Selrahc]

Yeah... looks like I have entirely lost the screenshots. Was trying to find some way to salvage them but I don't think I can short of replaying the turns and trying to recreate the circumstances.Played the game out yesterday morning. Started typing out the report. Power cut meant my computer had to reboot wiping all the screenshots from temporary memory before I'd uploaded them to photobucket.

Turn 0- Switch techs to printing press. Rifling is the number 1 tech priority for a nice quick overrun of Zara and printing press will bring us more cash.

Turn 1-Great engineer born in Thebes. Keep him to rush a wonder.

Turn 2-Nothing

Turn 3-Nothing

Turn 4- Nothing

Turn 5- Our galleons meet. No circumnavigation bonus! Someone must have beaten us to it.

Turn 6- Oh. Well we got a bonus move for all our ships so it must have counted.

Turn 7- Pacal asks for a free Compass. I refuse. He is too close in tech and this won’t make him much less friendly.

Turn 8- Guilds for Printing press, world map and some gold.

Turn 9-Notre Dame completes.

Turn 10- Pacal is 10 turns from education. We are 2 turns from liberalism. I believe that we can grab Gunpowder(2 turns) Banking(3 turns)(Or trade from Pacal) and Replaceable Parts (6 turns) before we need to get liberalism for a grab of rifling. Also possible is Chemistry then liberalism for a grab of the more expensive steam power, as part of the path to assembly line.

http://rapidshare.com/files/320847023/General_Playground_AD-1240.CivBeyondSwordSave.html

[happyturtle]

The story of the reign of Happyturtle IV

or: Goddamit! We need more roads! :smallfurious:

As I ascend the throne, I decide to meet with my fellow leaders and exchange pleasantries.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

Okay, maybe all of them aren't quite so pleasant. :smalleek:

Sitting Bull tells me of some sort of religious innovation that... blah blah blah.... wait, what? Military units that train in Buddhist cities will be more skilled? Okay, sure, you can have Literature and Drama for this 'Theocracy' thing. I'll even change my civics around!

I am not pleased that our armies are weaker than those of our neighbors, but our scientists assure me that by the end of my reign, we will be close to a technological breakthrough that will make the armies of the world obsolete. So I leave the full mobilization for my successor, and merely try to keep us from falling further behind.

I consider adopting Vassalage at the same time that I change to Theocracy, but decide the benefits from Bureaucracy are too great to forego. But perhaps when we really begin ramping up for war, it will be time to consider it.

After conducting diplomacy, I make a tour of our cities.

In Thebes, I put the training of the Knight on hold to make a stable first, for the exp. Das Crepes is unhappy, so I slave in a temple to eliminate the unhappy people and make their descendants happier as they pray to the gods for solace from their cruel overlords.

Pink Dot feels the lash the most heavily, since it's rubbish for production otherwise. I slave in the University, after trying to convince the governor that I don't want to run any specialists - especially not a spy in a city that's so bloody far from the border that it's unlikely to have much problem from infiltrators. :smallannoyed:

In Gatehouse, I put barracks ahead of the longbowman. A lot of our troops for taking Zara will come from here and Agony Creek.

And then I look at the state of our infrastructure. My gods, look at the shape of our roads! It's terrible! What good is it to have the finest army in the world if they're busy slogging through jungle with machetes before they can get to the front? We need more roads and way more workers!

On the spy screen, I bump up the priority on Alex because we're not far from being able to see his research. Then I ponder the possibility of settling a city on the Suez gulf, and hit the end turn button. I mean, celebrate the end of the first year of my reign.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

See that blue zone way up under the information bar? That's our first sign of Alex's territory.

Turn 186: Gunpowder achieved! On to Replaceable parts. Which requires learning banking :smallconfused:

Turn 187: A local songwriter from Domino City writes a heartrending ballad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

I choose option 2 (which cost 30 gp), and get a nice border expansion. This is why I like to keep the treasury padded a bit. :smallsmile:

Turn 188: Banking achieved. I never switch to Mercantilism though (not that I could, since I just had a revolution a few turns ago) because of the 'no foreign trade routes' bit. We get quite a lot of our commerce from trade.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg

Turn 189: And lo, the people did rejoice, for we are now producing wine!

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

Turn 190: I trade some of our sugar for Alex's sheep. Once all our grocer's come online, we can cancel the deal, but some of our cities are pretty unhealthy, and he's unlikely to go to war with us when Zara is closer, so I don't think it hurts us too bad to let him have a little extra happiness.

Turn 191: Longbowman comes online in Gatehouse. WTF? Only one promotion? Oh... Gatehouse is Jewish. We'll need to send a Buddhist missionary there to teach the people the errors of their beliefs.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

We meet Cyrus, who shows off his hat made of cigars. Yes, yes, it's very nice. *backs away slowly*

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

Welcome to Pergamon. Er, really, Alex, was that the best location you could have settled? Are you sure?

Turn 192: A new city is settled to give us an eastern port which will be useful for our upcoming war on Zara. The computer suggests the name Memphis, but I think Graceland is more fitting.

Turn 193: Hey Joe Satriani? Why don't you head on up to Agony Creek. We might want you to hold a big concert in Gondar after we conquer it to get the people used to our culture. Oh, and while you're going that way, would you mind dragging this catapult with you? We don't really need it here in Pink Dot.

Creating a great work in a captured city ends its revolt. But apparently I misclicked, because Joe is still in Pink Dot. :smallsigh:

Turn 195: Replaceable parts is discovered! Woot! On to liberalism, which we'll beat Pacal to by four turns. :smallbiggrin:

Production this turnset:

Thebes: Stable, Knight, Settler, Knight, Oxford University

Das Crepes: Buddhist Temple, University, Grocer

Pink Dot: University, Grocer, Bank, Buddhist Monastery

Sanctuary: Market, Grocer, Bank

Coalescence: University, Grocer (interrupted to slave in a missionary), Bank

Agony Creek: University, Barracks, Longbowman, Heroic Epic, Catapult

Gatehouse: Barracks, Longbowman, Catapult, Catapult

Domino City: Lighthouse, Harbour, Worker, Worker

F City: Granary, Worker, Lighthouse

Helmajistan: Granary, Worker, Lighthouse

Graceland: Granary


The state of the world:

I bought maps off everyone who was selling, at 5gp a pop. Since ours are the most extensive maps in the world, I haven't shared ours with anyone. I'm just selfish that way. :smalltongue:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

Here's what we know of Alex's territory. However...

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg

Do you think that big area in the middle is still unsettled? Because I sure don't. And there's the mixed Greek/Ethiopian cultural border to prove it. We should probably pop an explorer over there via caravel to wander Alex's land, since he won't sell us a map.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

Okay... that number 6 ranking in soldiers? Do Not Want. Once we get rifling, I want to see that change!

Other Notes:

Some irrigation work has been done, but there is still more to finish.

I sent Anubis towards the front. A level four rifleman will be nice to have. :smallcool:

Agony Creek now has the Heroic Epic, which means it should be kept busy pumping out military units from here on out. It didn't really need a university, but I went ahead and let it finish since the hammers had already been invested. I didn't put a stable here, because I don't know if we'll bother building enough mounted units to need more than the one in Thebes.

I didn't think any of the available Wonders were worth spending an engineer on, so he's still hanging out and waiting for a job.

The tiles between Agony Creek and the Ethiopian border need roads!

Graceland needs roads and tile improvements.

One of the northern cities should have the Forbidden Palace to cut down on maintenance, but I couldn't decide which one. Since I committed to two National Wonders already during my turn, I left this decision for someone else.

Might want to send a spy into Ethiopia to map things out. There's an invisible city on the coast working that fish tile.

Zara has war elephants, so a few pikeman might be in order.


Can't think of anything else. On to Murska!

Save file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/ymx5kc1yauj/General%20Playground%20AD-1350.CivBeyondSwordSave) hosted at mediafire this time. We'll see if they're nicer about sharing.

[Winthur]

Splendid turnset! Really, awesome. However, as always, I need to nitpick. :smalltongue:


Turn 187: A local songwriter from Domino City writes a heartrending ballad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

*falls off his bed laughing* :smallbiggrin:



Welcome to Pergamon. Er, really, Alex, was that the best location you could have settled? Are you sure?

At first I thought it wasn't that bad (it has fish and hills), until I realized that Knossos is ON the corn tile. :smalleek:
It seems like Tectonics can harmstrung you quite a bit.


Thebes: Stable, Knight, Settler, Knight, Oxford University

http://forums.court-records.net/images/smilies/holdit.gif

(Yes, I think that this decision deserves a splash image in retaliation :smalltongue: )

With all due respect, my problem here is Thebes, long-term, is not going to be a science city. Given that we seem to be striving for a war and we kept a lot of forests for Lumbermill benefits, I'd assume we're making Thebes a production city. Oxford in this city would not squeeze the full potential of the national wonder.

Here's my reasoning, Your Honor:
The two scientists from Great Library will expire after Scientific Method. Once we hit Liberalism, we're likely to be using Free Speech instead of Bureaucracy (from which most of that commerce bonus comes from, I guess), because most of our Cottages have already become Towns (or are Villages close to that status). It only has a few Cottages (although most of them fully grown). If anything, Pink Dot, Coalescence, or any other cottage city (Pink Dot looks to be the best one of them) are more deserving to be the home of the Oxford University, because they're fully concentrated on commerce.


Agony Creek now has the Heroic Epic, which means it should be kept busy pumping out military units from here on out.

Make it so, Number One. :smallcool:


I didn't think any of the available Wonders were worth spending an engineer on, so he's still hanging out and waiting for a job.

If we really have nothing for him to do AND we have great production capabilities so wonder rushing isn't that sexy anymore AND (assuming you agree with me) Pink Dot's a better spot for the Oxford University...

...maybe we could settle the Engineer in Pink Dot (would work well with Representation) or rush an Oxford University there? Just a thought. :smallwink:


Zara has war elephants, so a few pikeman might be in order.

Riflemen have 14 strength and 25% bonus against mounted units. :smalltongue:


Pink Dot feels the lash the most heavily, since it's rubbish for production otherwise. I slave in the University, after trying to convince the governor that I don't want to run any specialists - especially not a spy in a city that's so bloody far from the border that it's unlikely to have much problem from infiltrators.

Nice to see the awareness on the management of our cities. We don't need no stinkin' spies! :smallsmile:


Turn 188: Banking achieved. I never switch to Mercantilism though (not that I could, since I just had a revolution a few turns ago) because of the 'no foreign trade routes' bit. We get quite a lot of our commerce from trade.

Representation and Mercantilism is a great combo for humongous empires with lots and lots of cities...

...but of course, we don't qualify. :smalltongue:

Anyway, well detailed and properly set up. With the exception of the Oxford University location, I have no problems with your judgement. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Might be too late to change that. I think Murska's almost finished with his turnset already. >.>

[Murska]

Hm. I got a problem. The instant I started a war with Zara he popped an Apostolic Palace vote about stopping said war. If we vote 'Never' we get -5 happiness in all cities and I think he has enough votes to push it through. :smallannoyed:

[Selrahc]

Oxford is something of an error yeah.

If we have nothing to spend him on then I would say a golden age is the best use of the Great Engineer. Alternatively, we are pretty close to mining inc and he would work as a founder.

Apostolic palace votes come at fixed intervals. If it will be a problem then wait until he puts in a vote for something meaningless, then smash him.

The hapiness hit will only be in cities with Hinduism, so it might not be too bad.

[happyturtle]

So it depends on whether Alex will vote with Zara or with us. Zara kept trying to push through a trade embargo against Pacal, and couldn't get it, and he has no reason to love Zara other than the mutual religion. And Alex doesn't care much about religion.

[Winthur]

And remember that the best remedy to war weariness problems is to ram up the Culture slider.

[Murska]

The reign of Murska the Fourth, the Warrior
Although 'The Rifleman' would probably fit better.

Most presentations of the Egyptian history focus on the leaders who ruled during important periods. The illustrious founders of the nation, the great changers and movers of the society, people whose lifes aren't shrouded in mystery as much as hidden behind blinding spotlights. This one talks about Murska the Fourth, who is less remembered although his name still is important with military historians in particular.

He rose to the throne during an uneasy peace and left it at the outset of another, but during his rule the First Ethiopian War was started and fought.

He started with large changes to the society, forcing the complacent and lazy Egyptian upper class to give way to the intelligent and hard-working people who brought with them new thoughts and ideas. This earned him their respect.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0000-11.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0001-9.jpg
Murska the Fourth was the first one to adopt the long-standing Egyptian tradition of free speech.

This respect he used, among intellectuals as well as the people, to rouse support for the coming war. He was well received and he learned of an invention that would change the face of warfare forever.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0002-8.jpg
The first rifles were named after Murska. He ordered the training of multiple regiments of skilled riflemen.

This all happened at the last moment, for the border guards already noticed Ethiopians constructing staging grounds right next to the border while the Egyptian army was one of the weakest in the world, despite the nation's power in other fields.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0003-8.jpg
The Ethiopians always insisted that Adwa was just a peaceful civilian settlement.

Meanwhile the voyage of the Egyptian explorers was cut short by ice and they were forced to return towards Egypt the southern route. They were stopped short there by a fierce pirate attack and their arrival back to their homelands was delayed even more.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0004-8.jpg
Xanatos had to turn back with his disappointed crew to avoid being stuck in ice.

Murska claimed to have received a message from the Gods and ordered the relocation of the Oxford University construction site from Thebes to Pink Dot.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0005-8.jpg
Miraculously, despite the University being relocated, it finished ahead of schedule.

Joe Satriani started a famous tour from Thebes to Agony Creek, where he would meet the figurehead of the new style of music challenging his 'mainstream' style influenced by his years in Pink Dot. The guitar battle between him and Jimi Hendrix would live on as a legendary event in the history of music.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0012-2.jpg
Jimi Hendrix starting his famous first tour in 1400, sparking a rivalry between him and Satriani.

Meanwhile, as the rifles entered service, Murska ordered the assault on the staging grounds of the Ethiopian army across the border and, with the new weapons, drove the enemy back in confusion and terror capturing lots of slaves to work for Egyptian roads.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0013-2.jpg
The first shots of the First Ethiopian War were fired by the famed elite Anubis forest combat unit, signaling the start of the war in 1410.

The war was another thing which helped the pioneers of the Egyptians to take over the markets and modernize Egyptian economy.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0016-1.jpg
The war revitalized the stagnating Egyptian economy.

The war proceeded well as the Egyptians pushed steadily through the Ethiopian lands, the Ethiopians simply had no counter to the rifles.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg
In 1450 the Siege of Gondar began. The defenders of Gondar pulled the famous Pants Incident, where many of their men defiantly threw their pants off the walls at an Egyptian negotiator. This was responded to with a fierce catapult bombardment.

As the siege of Gondar lengthened, the opposition for the war grew in the Hindu populace.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/Civ4%20screenies/Civ4ScreenShot0020-1.jpg
The Ethiopians attempted to end the war via the means of diplomacy in the year 1460 AD. This prompted Murska to withdraw from the throne which delayed the negotiations just enough for the final decision of the Egyptian army on the Gondar front.

OOC: Yes, I used the Great Engineer in Pink Dot for the University. Anyway, I mainly built and upgraded units. I'm not that good with workers but they oughta be doing something all the time, anyway. The war is going pretty well but I think it'll be forcibly ended next turn. Maybe it won't, who knows. Anyway, it's up to Winth whether or not he should attack Gondar with everything we have and take it this turn in case the war ends tomorrow.

The save is here (http://rapidshare.com/files/321722927/General_Playground_AD-1460.CivBeyondSwordSave.html).

[Winthur]

Quick question - what do we do with the Great Artists?

I'm planning to start a Golden Age now with one of them but I'm not quite sure if we had some other plans, so fill me on the current situation.

[Murska]

I was thinking of using one to save Gondar from falling in case we get forced into peace. But then again, how to get him into there is another thing...

[happyturtle]

Great Works in conquered cities are good. But a golden age is also good.

[Winthur]

In 1460, a crack commando unit was sent to the frontlines by the military in order to begin the conquest of Ethiopia.
These men promptly sieged Gondar, the fort which protects the passage to the Ethiopian mainland.
The work which becomes a new genre itself will be called...
...
...I kinda lost track at this point.

* * *

The prince Winthur IV had decided to travel along with the Anubis' unit. Protected from all sides by Riflemen, he felt lighthearted about this journey, the young and still foolish person he was.

Trying to blend with the soldiers, Winthur IV decided that he will eat along with the soldiers. The food brought on his table every day was actually quite refreshing compared to his usual stew.
He was pondering upon the matters of warfare with Anubis, the most trusted general of all the empire.
Until...

"My lord! King Murska IV... is no longer with us".

The silence that filled the air could be cut through with a knife.

"Whatever happened to my father?", sobbed Winthur. "I was assured by the greatest Playgroundian healer that there's no risk to his life!"
"Indeed. But days after your departure, new symptoms started. Our healers have tried everything, but they said nothing could be done. Throughout all his career, doctor Apartment has never encountered such a disease. Right now, he's trying to figure out what was the force that had undone your father, and tries to find ways of preventing it in the future. It bears the name of lupus."
"...So...", Winthur pondered every word he just heard, "you are saying this disease has never occurred in any person we know?"
"Precisely. Throughout the history of mankind, it was never lupus."

It was like a bad dream.

Prince Winthur IV asked lieutenant Skrzetuski for his rifle. The officer humbly complied. He pondered the weight of the task that fell upon his young arms.

"The death of my father means that I'm now the lawful ruler of all the Playground, correct?", he asked the messenger who brought those terrible news."
"Precisely, sir. Murska IV had left the decision whether to sieze Gondar to you. However..."
"What?"
"We have to hurry.", Anubis chimed into the conversation. "Lately, your father mayherestinpeace has attended to a meeting in the Apostolic Palace. Zara Yaqob demanded that the war ends right now. We still aren't sure whether Alexander will agree to this election, but it might be our last chance to claim Gondar."
"What would you say?"
"I'd say we have to strike now. Right now, Zara's forces are weak, outdated and not concentrated in Gondar. If the peace treaty prolongs the war any further, Zara is sure to be prepared much better for the war and we will require much more effort to bring him down."

Winthur digested this information carefully. His hands were shaking from anxiety, so he kept them busy by playing around with the rifle. He finally gave it back to Skrzetuski.

"I'd say, Anubis...", he paused in order to don his shaded binocles, "...that we might as well give it a shot."

Three catapult divisions have been destroyed in the attack, but they whittled down the Ethiopian forces.
The Ethiopians have never experienced anything like this. Against the power of Rifles, they had absolutely no way of succeeding.
Winthur IV has been looking at the battlefield from the nearby hill. He was horrified. All those men, even though they weren't his, have been dying.
He suddenly was reminded of the deeds of his namesakes.
Winthur I. He introduced slavery to the kingdom. He brought many people to death in order to satisfy his needs. During his reign, rivers flowed with blood.
Winthur II. A maniac who slaughtered many people in the name of "prosperity". He started the war with the Ethiopians over a petty thing, and he bribed all the other nations in order to set off a spiral of hate with his neighbors.
Winthur III. Under his reign, settlements were razed. In order to satisfy his greed, many soldiers have died. He has been a nutjob who never put any consideration to anyone else's opinion.
Winthur IV decided to put an end to this.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4133/civ4screenshot0057.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0057.jpg/)

As he observed troops marching effortlessly into Gondar, he decided that it was time for the name "Winthur" to mean something more than slaughter and greed.

The Apostolic Palace decided to relieve Zara from the burden of war.
It was actually good for Winthur IV. This way, he kind of avoided the responsibility for all the lives that would have been lost in that war. He avoided disappointment that would be brought upon him for his inability to fulfill the goals of his father.

This year was the beginning of the new era for the Playgroundian people. It was inaugurated with this speech from the king:
"People of the Playground! For all those years have we been caught up in the mad scheme for power. In the name of the greater good, the Hindu people have interferred in our feud with the Ethiopians. This might be the sign that war is no longer the answer. For years this empire had supported itself on clay feet of slavery and cult of personality. The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty. We must strive to live up to that ideal. Will you help me?"

This speech, although it was pretty bad and invoked some feelings of deja vu, had started the Golden Age of the Playgroundian Empire.

WINTHUR GOES FORTH

The interest in Jimi Hendrix and Joe Satriani, the greatest Playgroundian artists, had peaked. Millions of Playgroundians wanted to hear their songs. They bolstered the spirits of the miners in Agony Creek, and their fame soon spread all around the empire. The workers have found inspiration in those lyrics.

It was the perfect time for changes in the empire. Slavery was abolished in favor of caste system. Winthur decided that there was no reason to flaunt the technological terror brought by his father, and he shut down all the military projects throughout the empire.
During this time, people started to express their hatred towards the oppression they had to suffer for so long. Millions of people were united by the new idea of pacifism.

(OOC: Don't worry. I haven't gone crazy. I just decided to play around with the advantage of being Spiritual and switched civics for a few turns in order to boost us up a bit. As soon as the save is passed along, go switch back to normal civics; we are at peace for now anyway. I just wanted to squeeze out all that was possible from our flexibility.)

The Golden Age prompted the youth to strive to greatness. They haven't cared for their well-being, focused only on the prospect of glory to their homeland; they were able to look past their grievances with the government in order to bring about the new order into the land.
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8890/civ4screenshot0060.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0060.jpg/)

(OOC: Of course, the real reason is I wanted to starve off that population point that was in revolt.)

One of the geniuses that was born during this era in Das Crepes was a brilliant merchant. His name was Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler. It was said he would be capable of selling everything. He was sent on a Caravel on a trade mission to Nidaros.

During this age, all the menial tasks have been approached with greater vigor. Soon, the adorators of the new science, Astronomy, have emerged. The great thinkers of that time have invented Nationalism, wrote the world's first Constitution and created the concept of Democracy.

Thus, Winthur IV adopted Representation and became the first king under constitutional monarchy.

A great palace, Taj Mahal, was to be erected in Thebes, but it was said that the Vikings already got one and it was varrah nass, so the plans were scrapped.

King Winthur IV's death marked the end of the Playgroundian Golden Age.

SEE YOU SPACE COWBOY...

OK, enough with this stupid stuff. :smallamused: After the period of "Can't Revolt" wanes (which is in the next 2 turns), we switch to Emancipation and Theocracy, and go back to pumping units.

You can also switch to Nationhood and draft. It's pretty much the fastest way to create a huge Renaissance army, but I think that with Zara we can easily rely on our own production.

Zara goes down. I just wanted to use the breathing room for a moment in order to pump out a Great Scientist for another Academy, or maybe to settle in Pink Dot. We won't have time for this for quite a while.

Zara now has Gunpowder (in fact, he said something along the lines of "Show some intelligence for a change, General Playground, and accept this deal" and offered me 5 gold for Gunpowder. It looked amusing, but it meant that Zara is really close to that tech. I declined, of course.), but he isn't even close to Rifling. We can still pummel him to the ground quite easily.

CMOT Dibbler is on the route to Nidaros.

Also, I hired two Artists in Gondor to push that culture a bit. It doesn't really have anything else to do.

I don't think there's anything else to cover.

I apologise for my long and boring writing.

(This mediafire host is simply fabulous!) (http://www.mediafire.com/?tnznumnztoz)

[Terraoblivion]

That was fast, everyone. Also it seems like you all want me to go to war deeper in Ethiopean land. I have to ask, though. Are catapults the best siege units we have? Cannons would probably be greatly helpful here.

[Murska]

Trebuchets are better, but take way too long to make.

Cannons come with Steel, but Catapults are more than enough at this stage since they're not supposed to actually survive any fights.

[Terraoblivion]

Sorry about the wait. Been busy. Also sorry about the lack of screenshots, but i didn't see anything terribly interesting to screenshot.

The Glorious Revolution and the Playgroundian Republic

The revival of intellectual life brought on by King Winthur IV sent a wave of new ideas traveling through the Playground. If the king was willing to listen to representatives of the people, did the people ultimately need the king? If the Playground was so superior to the rest of the world, was it not a moral obligation to spread its fortune to everyone else? Was it not a moral obligation to spread the true path to the rest of the world so that they could all achieve salvation from the wheel of samsara?

As the unrest grew it came to civil war and after a series of quick campaigns, the rebels won. Led by a fanatic and charismatic tailor's daughter from Agony Creek known as Terra Oblivion, the new regime would inaugurate a reign of religious terror in the Playground. All of this was done in the name of reason, faith and keeping the nation pure of those such as the monarchy that would keep it down and grow fat at the expense of the common Playgroundians. So started one of the darkest chapter of Playground history.

After a few years to consolidate her power, the day all knew was underway came. The dictator declared war on Ethiopia once again. Protests from the Hindu community was cracked down on by the reinstitution of forced labor, with all protesters deported to work camps to slave away at great public works.

Not all was dark in the land of the Playground, however. The great trade mission to the far off land of the vikings was carried out in its appointed time, bringing great wealth back to enrich the coffers of the new government.

The new regime also attracted many great people to serve its cause. In Das Crepes a man named Nabeshin rose to create many great, if not always lucid, shows praising the glories of the republic. He quickly went on a tour through the land to show his vision to the people and inspire them to support the cause. And from Sanctuary came an elegant, fabulous man known as Treize Kushrenada who ventured forth to teach the principles of warfare to the Playgroundian army in the great, military academy of Thebes.

Following the early success in taking Matara, which was quickly renamed Gekkoukan, after the setting of an obscure legend given prominence by the republican goverment, the offensive ground to a halt, however, as the Ethiopians launched a siege of Gondor pinning the troops there for years before the offense could be pushed towards Aksum.

And enough of that silly history book stuff about me being the love child of Oliver Cromwell and Napoleon. In any case my turn set has been marked by war, both the waging of it and the preparation for it. The research i have pursued has reflected this. After Chemistry finished i went for Military Tradition and Military Science. I am currently working on Steam Power, our country has been getting large enough that we need railroads to move around in any timely manner. It might have been stupid to go for Steam Power before Steel but it is too late now, i guess.

And unfortunately it we didn't get another Great Scientist despite overwhelming probability, we got a Great Artist instead. So we have two of those sitting around now. I didn't want to expend one on Matara or Gondor, but sending one to Aksum when we take it should be rather useful.

I also got some luxury resources cheaply from Alexander and Sitting Bull. I believe i got them for Pigs and Wheat respectively.

And a save so you can all see how things are going (http://www.mediafire.com/?qnmww2mi4um) and, you know, continue the game.

[Winthur]

And unfortunately it we didn't get another Great Scientist despite overwhelming probability, we got a Great Artist instead.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smallfurious: :smallfurious: :smallfurious:

I haven't been this mad since I lost to a Wraith 2port cheese. :smallmad:

Oh well. By the looks of things, we're completely obliterating the AI. All we have to do now is just spam units and wrap this up. I'm sure that nothing can stop us.

I'd say we can go after Aksum, take away all Zara's core cities and make him capitulate just so we can go and vassalize Pacal and Alexander as well. Then move on to the other continent and do the same, wrap up a fast Conquest victory. We can - nothing can stop us. Put our stuff on ships and destroy everything in sight.

I also say that any city that has any sort of hammer capacity should start spamming units from now on. Helmajistan is an example (although it needs a barracks).

Unless, of course, you'd like to go peacefully and give us a ticket to space. In that case, let's just capture all Zara's land and build the Statue of Liberty.

We can also switch to Nationhood and mass draft. It's also a great way to make an army. Of course, our production and tech is the greatest on the planet, so it's not really necessary. :smallsmile:

The power is yours, like in Captain Planet! :smallbiggrin:

(Although the situation really favors military win. Because of the technological terror we've constructed, we can simply roflstomp all the other Civilizations.)

(Anyone up for another succession game after this one? :smalltongue: )

(And, of course, a nice spin on the story. :smallbiggrin: )

[happyturtle]

Let's keep going for the military win. I suck at warfare, so could use the practice.

Another game after this? Definitely! :smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

I'm up for another game.

And yeah, military victory sounds good... I'm going to work towards my favourite end-game stomping strategy which features battleships, transports filled to the brim with marines and airported tanks. :smallbiggrin:

[Monzach]

Hey guys and gals.

I really love the game you're playing here and if/when there's another one I'm definetily participating. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

We'll be glad to have you, Monzach. :smallsmile:

Terra, just curious - why did you put the military academy in Thebes instead of Agony Creek with the Heroic Epic?

[Squark]

I would be interested in joining the next game (Since you'll probably be finished before Chrismas, when I get the game)

[happyturtle]

Next game:
Winthur
Murska
Happyturtle
Monzach
Squark

[Monzach]

If'n I can make a suggestion about the next game, maybe we could pick the Celts and Brennus as our leader? Charismatic/Spiritual is definetily a winning combo for me. :smallcool:

And just a heads-up... I like to roleplay more than a bit when I post, so if anyone is going to have a problem with that, speak now or forever hold your peace. :smallredface:

[Winthur]

If'n I can make a suggestion about the next game, maybe we could pick the Celts and Brennus as our leader? Charismatic/Spiritual is definetily a winning combo for me. :smallcool:

And just a heads-up... I like to roleplay more than a bit when I post, so if anyone is going to have a problem with that, speak now or forever hold your peace. :smallredface:

Hm. Well, you know, we already played with Spiritual. And since it's a winning combo for you, I guess that this means it's time to try something new. :smallwink:

[Monzach]

Hm. Well, you know, we already played with Spiritual. And since it's a winning combo for you, I guess that this means it's time to try something new. :smallwink:

Hee hee. :smallbiggrin: I kinda guessed that reaction. Luckily for li'l ol' me, I've played with most of the bonus ability combos in the game. Not to mention that some of those beauties can be circumvented with the right wonders or domestic policies.

But hey, it was just a suggestion and I can live with pretty much any ruler you lot impose upon me. Also, it would seem that the next game will have a Finnish dominance, seeing as me and Murska are compatriots. :smalltongue:

[happyturtle]

Heehee... is there a Finnish Empire mod? If so, we should totally all install it.

[Murska]

There is, in fact. :smalltongue:

Anyway, good to meet another fellow Finn. Be careful of Winth, he's Porean and our rival/mortal enemy/friend depending on the situation and time of day plus amount of alcohol consumption.

[Winthur]

Or we can simply play as the Vikings. :smalltongue:

Oh wait, Terra is already doing that herself in her topic, so that would be sort of hijacking.

Without installing any mods we can play as the Poreans. :smalltongue:

[happyturtle]

With Saunas as their Unique Building and Bear Cavalry Snipers as their Unique Unit?

[Monzach]

Heehee... is there a Finnish Empire mod? If so, we should totally all install it.

As long as the default leader of this great empire would be our longest serving republican dictator "Urkki" Kekkonen. :smallbiggrin:

[Winthur]

As long as the default leader of this great empire would be our longest serving republican dictator "Urkki" Kekkonen. :smallbiggrin:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/atheos/pics/kekkonen2.jpg
:smalltongue:
In fact, ever since I met Murska I kinda got interested in Finland. (No, not necessarily in Finlandia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandia_Vodka).)

With Saunas as their Unique Building and Bear Cavalry Snipers as their Unique Unit?

If that was pointed towards me, then I'm not sure why would my country be famous for saunas and bear cavalry. :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Everyone knows Saunas are Finnish. :smalltongue:

[Monzach]

Everyone knows Saunas are Finnish. :smalltongue:

Except the Swedes and the Russians, who also claim to have invented that particular torture devise. :smallbiggrin:

[Selrahc]

Prince Selrahc was born into an increasingly militaristic society. New schools of tactics and weapons of war were developed at an increasingly rapid rate. it is no surprise then that the prince developed a taste for warfare. Joining a regiment at a young age the campaign against Ethiopia consumed him. He revolutionized military techniques along more modern grounds, removing the system of buying rank and introducing a merit based advancement system. This resulted in elite but shunned regiments being raised to greater status. His sudden death due to tropical fever while on campaign aged 47 must have come as some relief to his enemies. His most decisive military victory was at the battle of Aksum, where the city was left nearly defenceless.

What may be more surprising is the role of pragmatic reformer. Overturning centuries old statute legislation to leave a tidier more modern system, modernizing and innovating existing institutions all helped pave the way for the great government corporations that were to arise at the end of his reign.

Turn 0-
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0049.jpg?t=1261242771
Upgrade this guy into a rifleman. City raider 3 people do not sit around doing
garrison duty.
What is up with the promotions we’re picking? We have 3 medic 1 units. We only need 1 medic unit, and the rest should be going for combat and then whatever is appropriate to kill defenders. Are we trying to get everyone to March? Not really worth it.

Turn 1- I clean up some of the ancient signs that have been littering the landscape, their edicts long since fulfilled.

Turn 2-
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0050.jpg?t=1261242772
Buy Alexander and Pacal into the war in return for some outdated tech.

Turn 3-Don’t have enough catapults in place for suicide to be worthwhile. Continue the agonizingly slow process of bombing down the walls in Aksum. Incidentally, that is why catapults are worthwhile for the people who have been building trebuchets. Catapults can be casually suicided against the walls of a city for significant collateral damage and so conduct a lighning military campaign. Trebuchets… can’t.

Turn 4-

Turn 5-
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0051.jpg?t=1261242772

Notch up another great artist guys! :smallconfused:

Turn 6-

Turn 7-

The fact that we now have cannons means that the issue of cats versus trebs is somewhat null. Still… Remember in future, Cats are great for collateral damage, trebs are better at bombarding. In a case of unit parity you want to bombard, when we have better units collateral should do the job well enough.

Turn 8-
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0053.jpg?t=1261242351

Free scientist in Thebes. The unhappy face probably won’t matter too much.

Turn 9- The military build up in Aksum is pretty high now, almost time to let loose...

Turn 10- The battle of Aksum.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/Civ4ScreenShot0056.jpg?t=1261241199
Our losses-
3 cats
2 rifle

Their losses-
3 Longbow
Maceman
Crossbow
War Elephant
Oromo Warrior
2 Knight

Trade corporation from Pacal for Liberalism and Chemistry. Next step Assembly Line!

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/SelrahctheEternal/?action=view&current=Civ4ScreenShot0059.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/?lnnmkihz2yt

[Winthur]

Incidentally, that is why catapults are worthwhile for the people who have been building trebuchets. Catapults can be casually suicided against the walls of a city for significant collateral damage and so conduct a lighning military campaign. Trebuchets… can’t.
:smallconfused: Wait, don't Trebuchets have the +100% attack against cities, making them pretty useful at whittling down the health of the cities' defenders?


Notch up another great artist guys! :smallconfused:
http://andrewbreitbartmallcop.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/picard_facepalm.jpg

The game compulsively wants us to win a Cultural Victory. :smalltongue:

[Selrahc]

Wait, don't Trebuchets have the +100% attack against cities, making them pretty useful at whittling down the health of the cities' defenders?

The main source of a siege weapons damage is collateral. They won't do much damage to the first defender, but will injure 5 others. Keep doing that with 6 or 7 catapults and you have a really easy to take city.

[Squark]

Hmm... I don't have much preference as far as civs or leaders go. As far as difficulty, I've played two partial games on (Normal, whatever rank that is. Noble?), the first of which was a truly bizarre setup, although up until Gandhi attacked me, I was doing well (And I might still have survived, as I'd managed to unite most of the other world powers against him). The second game didn't last that long, although I think I messed up a bit when I adopted my own religion.

[Winthur]

The main source of a siege weapons damage is collateral. They won't do much damage to the first defender, but will injure 5 others. Keep doing that with 6 or 7 catapults and you have a really easy to take city.
Yes, but wouldn't it be pretty useful to send a, say, City Raider II Trebuchet or two? He has a high chance of withdrawal this way and he will do damage to the first guy in the stack, and also some collateral.

[Selrahc]

But if he dies you've flushed away a fairly expensive unit. For the same cost you could get almost 2 catapults.

[Murska]

Hit the enemy with a few cats first, hopefully damaging his main defender. Then the trebs you have will have a much higher chance of surviving against the wounded defender and if you can withdraw after almost killing the enemy main defender the city is usually ripe for picking.

As to why we have 3 Medic 1 units, we didn't have ANY Medics when I started getting us units so I decided to start getting them as soon as possible, since Medic 3-promoted Great Generals form the core of my land armies always and three stacks sounds like a good number for a blitzkrieg assault with superior units. But they need to start gaining exp early. Besides, we had a bunch of wounded units after the border fighting against the stack of longbows Ethiopia had in their city.

EDIT: Also, I usually build a Treb or two since I tend to bombard city defenses as down as needed to give my best units over 50% chance of taking out their best units. Then suicide a catapult or two just in case and go for it.

[Terraoblivion]

The Great Artists are weird. I wonder why we always get them, even when probability favors something else.

The reason i built the Military Academy in Thebes and not Agony Creek was that i totally forgot about the Heroic Epic. Well that and because even with the Heroic Epic Agony Creek produced units slightly slower than Thebes did and Thebes also had Stables allowing us to get Cavalry out in a timely manner.

As for Catapults compared to Trebuchets, i tried looking because i had heard the arguments for Catapults. Trebuchets came out one turn slower and unless the Civilopedia omits information about how many units they deal collateral damage to, they are simply better at their job than Catapults are. So when it is not substantially faster i see little point in building Catapults over building Trebuchets. Unless there is a lower cap on the amount of units that Trebuchets can damage, in which case the choice should be obvious when you want collateral damage.

And i am definitely up for another succession game as well. Should try out different traits and a different overall strategy, however. We shouldn't rush out and kill everyone in that one, i think. For variety's sake.