Warhammer 40k

[Crazy Owl]

Terrible at a points cost less than 1000.

[PokeTheBard]

Only some Veteran Sergeants confer the ability to fire at different targets, and even then, it's only that you can divide the firepower of your squad to a maximum of two targets. In a devastator squad with two lascannon, that's taking out pretty much all the enemy's heavy support in one turn if your lucky.

I know the 13th Company Space Wolves get this ability for their long fangs but it isn't exclusive to them. That said, it's not common codex practice either.

[Saithis Bladewing]

So, I'm thinking of assembling an army based around a core of 180 gretchin, supported by Wartrukks and Flash Gitz. Sound impractical or stupidly hilarious?

[Crazy Owl]

Sounds expensive.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Point-wise or money-wise? It's very expensive money-wise, but it'd still be a blast. And it'd take a ton of time to paint 180 gretchin.

Point-wise, it's ridiculously cheap. 594 points for all 6 gretchin mobz, including slavers.

[Renegade Paladin]

They call it 40k 'cuz that's how much it costs, am i rite? http://www.libriumarcana.com/Uploads/Rogue/Pictures/Smileys/emot-v.gif

In seriousness, I'd like to, but I'm not filthy, dirty, stinking rich, nor am I dependent upon my parents. Therefore, I'm strictly Dawn of War.

[Crazy Owl]

I did mean money wise and I'm in the same position as you Renegade. Although it is fun to play, it takes up a lot of my money. Good thing Ive got good old Dawn of War to play, if only they would hurry up and get Dark Crusade out over here too.

[ivanmckilliagin]

Likewise in the same connumdrum; wanting to play but broke(and cheap), so we dd the only reasonable thing. Stole 'em! Used tokens. Coins arent too far apart from a 25mm base, and a poker chip can be a 40mm one. once you get that, it's easy enough to play around, just keep point costs down. Failing that, peices of paper work wonders if all yo're after is srategy and tactics.

Destitution is the mother of invention.

[Sir_Dude]

Yeah, much the same way i play with my friends. Except that I use carboard as a backing and glue on little pictures to show what the unit is supposed to be. Went and did up a bunch of pictures on paint for that exact purpose.

[Were-Sandwich]

To get cheap minis:

1)Buy a load of slotta bases (the ones with the slots in them)

2) Go on the internet, and find some pictures of the mini you want

3) Size the picture to just under an inch wide, and about 28mm high. Then arrange two copies vertically mirrored, touching each other on a DTP software. Print

4) Fold the printout into an A shape, and glue it in the slot.

[Krytha]

Cheap, but also ghetto... and removes painting from the equation...

[Crazy Owl]

I was wondering if anyone else used Forge World much? With my Tau Army I am building I decided it hated the identical looking Battlesuits and decided to use the fully posable FW ones. Being as expensive as they are so far I have managed to afford only one battlesuit. I bought the special character they made to use as my Shas'O. At some point I will probably buy his rules but for now hes looking good as the commander of my army.

[PokeTheBard]

I must admit to buying enough of the Chaos Militia conversion kits to make up thirty traitors. I'd never buy a titan or anything like that though.

[Crazy Owl]

Tryed to save up for a Jackal Warhound Titan, after £70 I thought it was a bit stupid to buy something so expensive and bought some epic scale Warhounds to make me feel better.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Hm, I'm really stuck here. I'm trying to decide if I want to go for a mobile Tau or static Tau first. Eventually I'd like to have both, but money is going to hold me back for awhile. If I want mobile Tau, I'm going to want a lot of Fire Warriors in Devilfish, supported by Sky Rays and Hammerheads for Heavy Support...

If I want static, I'm going to also want a lot of Fire Warriors in Devilfish, probably supported by Broadsides for Heavy Support. And of course, mandatory Crisis Suits for both options.

But I'm really not sure where I want to go with these Tau. I don't like the Vespid, Kroot are cool but I'm not sure they have their place in the army I'm envisioning...any good suggestions, Tau players of the forum? I'm stuck for good ideas as to how to build this, and any tips/suggestions you may have found in the field for someone just starting up Tau wouldn't hurt.

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

I have only ever read the space marine book, and 40k rulebook. Don't have any models or even played a game. I do like the look of them though. Maybe when I am a millionaire...

[Saithis Bladewing]

I've got a few, but as I just moved here and I have no real money yet... (still paying off debts made in the move), I'm afraid I'm SoL at the moment. Just got me a Fire Warrior Team, some Vespids and the Battle for Macragge starter set (mostly for the small rulebook, as I don't like lugging the big fluffy one around.)

[FarseerUlthran]

Hey I just joined, this is my first post! I have played 40k for years (Eldar obviously) and just wanted to say that against Tau you cant go wrong with mechEldar. Dire Avengers and a Banshee squad (or 2) in Waveserpents (w/star engines, spirit stones) 2 Farseers (guide) on bikes and at least one squad infiltrating Scorpians should get you into enemy lines turn two (possibly charge turn one w/Scorpians). Never try to outshot them with anything. This will get even better in the new 'dex but give the Farseers Doom and spirit stones as well as Guide (re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound FTW).

On another note I take offense at the insult to my Warp Spiders several pages back. I field a squad of ten every game and they never fail (Meq, Geq, whatever)
[/rant]

[Crazy Owl]

Got the new codex yet? I heard Fire Dragons actually get meltaguns now instead of their weaker ones they had last time.

[FarseerUlthran]

No but I have been keeping track of the rumors on Warseer (those who have the codex have confirmed everything on the site.) yes Fire Dragons do get melta guns, however the unit that received the biggest boost were the shining spears (cost as much as 2 1/3 unupgraded marines, they have a S.6 AP.4 lance @ 6" and a S.6 powerweapon whenever they charge. Exarch can give the squad Hit and Run, he can also take an improved lance with strength 8).
I will answer any questions that you guys have.

[UnrealTiger]

I've got the Codex and can tell you that Fire Dragons most definately do NOT have melta guns. However they're old Fusion Guns have gone up to strength 8 and they've gone down in cost by one point.

Win, win, win!

Oh and Shining Spears have gone from an expensive hunk of crap in the old Codex to a glorious unit dedicated to bringing death to Command Squads everywhere near you.


Edit: Oh and to Farseer Ulthran, you really shouldn't be posting the point values of units, I'm pretty sure that's a breach of something or other. Saying that they're such and such points different from the old Codex is ok but not directly stating it.

[FarseerUlthran]

Something that is S.8 AP.1 and Rng.12 Assault 1 melta, is a melta gun even if it goes by another name. Sorry about the points S. Spears are now 2 1/3 marines.

BTW who was it who plays undefeated Demonhunters?
Quick question what is your list like, is it pure GK or what?

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Hey, this thread is just relavent enough to pimp out my deviantart page! It has a selection of GW minis, mostly Inquisitor. Beautiful, beautiful Inquisitor.
http://platinum-mongoose.deviantart.com/
Tell me what you think! :D

As for 40k, I thought I broke my addiction but the new Eldar are just too pretty. I also play Tau and Tyranids. I guess I'm just a Xenos at heart.
Recently, though, I've started to get more into GW's LotR game.

[Crazy Owl]

Nice Arco-Flagellant and the Eldar Ranger looks very good. Oh and you managed to make that wookie out of a filed down model green-stuff, wow he looks like a normal model.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Hey, thanks! I'm thinking of doing more Wookiees, 'cause that was a lot of fun. I'd like to see a Star Wars minis game that isn't Wizards of the Coast's pre-painted randomized... thing. Hopefully not with the 40k ruleset, though. That's 40k's one flaw. I much prefer the LotR game's might/will/fate system. Makes heroes more heroic, less likely to kill them with one S10 AP1 railgun shot.

And the Ranger and Chaos-flagellant are definitely my favorite of the stuff I've posted. I'll get more stuff up in December.

[FarseerUlthran]

Coincidently that is exactly my problem with LOTR, if you get hit with a Rail Gun you will die, no matter how heroic you are (unless of course you are a gaurdsman with a nice shiny medal:confused:).
Could people post what army they play and what their army comp. is? I am just curious.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Coincidently that is exactly my problem with LOTR, if you get hit with a Rail Gun you will die, no matter how heroic you are (unless of course you are a gaurdsman with a nice shiny medal:confused:).
Could people post what army they play and what their army comp. is? I am just curious.

Indeed, the realism of the weaponry is just what I like about 40k. If you want to protect your heroes from instant death, hide them behind troops. ~.^

As for me, I had to sell my army when moving, but I'm building up a Tau army now. Probably gonna be focused around a lot of mobile fire warriors in devilfish supported by markerlights and hammerheads.

[FarseerUlthran]

Sounds good (I hate that submunition round).
I play ranger based Eldar (no longer Alaitoc:smallfrown:)

[Platinum_Mongoose]

When it comes to my army lists, I'm most proud of my Tyranids, unpainted as they may be.

1 Hive Tyrant w/ two tyrant guard
3 Warriors w/ rending claws and scything talons (HQ)
3 Warriors w/ devourers and scything talons
3 Warriors w/ deathspitters and rending claws
1 Lictor (might add more)
20 Termagants
12 Spinegaunts
20 Hormagaunts
12 Genestealers w/ Scything Talons, Extended Carapace
12 Genestealers w/ Feeder Tendrils
12 Genestealers
8 Ripper bases, winged
2 Bio-Acid Spore Mines
3 Frag Spore Mines
1 Zoanthrope (might add more)
2 Carnifexes (Carnifi? ...Carnifeces? Ew...)
No idea what the point total on that bad boy is.

One of my Carni... One Carnifex has magnets in all of its sockets so I can equip it with almost anything.

There's something magical about the look on your opponent's face when you can't quite fit all of your models into your deployment zone. It's the look of realization that even if all of their shots hit, wound, and kill, six shooting phases still won't take down everything. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but you see my point. That's a lot of giant bugs.

[Saithis Bladewing]

When it comes to my army lists, I'm most proud of my Tyranids, unpainted as they may be.

2 Carnifexes (Carnifi? ...Carnifeces? Ew...)

One of my Carni... One Carnifex has magnets in all of its sockets so I can equip it with almost anything.

Carnifices? What has this world come to? ;D

Personally, I like my planned gretchin horde better for the intimidation tactic you're going for there. Sure, they may be gretchin, but the sheer number of models is going to give them a blank expression. 180 gretchin for 560 points? Yesplz.

[FarseerUlthran]

That is until Ikeep your entire army pinned from turn one onwards with two squads of Rangers:smallbiggrin:.
My entire static shooting element under the new codex causes pinning.
2x5 Rangers
1x5 Pathfinders
1x5 Dark Reapers, Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Fast Shot
1x3 Vibrocannons
The rest of my force is;
1x10 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent, Exarch with Bladestorm and Defend, two Shuri.Cats
-Warlock with either Enhance or Conceal
-Wave serpent has twin Bright Lances and a Shuri Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Vectored Engines.
1x10 Warpspiders, Exarch with Spinneret Rifle and Withdraw
2x3 Shining Spears, Exarch with Star Lance and Withdraw
1 Autarch with; Bike, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
1 Farseer with; Bike, Doom, Guide, Spirit Stones
1 Falcon, Scatter Laser, Pulse Laser, Shuri.Cannon, Holo-Fields, Spirit Stones

I would have the Farseer next to the squad of Avengers ready to Guide them and Doom their target.
The Autarch would accompany one squad of S.Spears to hunt tanks.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

The Hive Mind laughs at your pinning weapons.


...Then runs in fear of your Scatter Lasers and Shuriken Cannons.

[Azukar]

Wow, among my old community I was the only person I knew of who played Tau. And I was a High Elf when it came to Fantasy, but that's off-topic.

What stopped me in the end? Money, lacking in people to play against, liking Inquisitor more, and moving hours away from anyone I know who plays the game. I'd take it up again if I thought there was someone out there worth fighting.

[Azukar]

Hang on... Don't tell me! Reading between the lines here... Has Eldar got a new Codex!? Can it be true?

[Saithis Bladewing]

Yep, Eldar just got a new codex and new miniatures.

[UnrealTiger]

That is until Ikeep your entire army pinned from turn one onwards with two squads of Rangers:smallbiggrin:.
My entire static shooting element under the new codex causes pinning.
2x5 Rangers
1x5 Pathfinders
1x5 Dark Reapers, Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Fast Shot
1x3 Vibrocannons
The rest of my force is;
1x10 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent, Exarch with Bladestorm and Defend, two Shuri.Cats
-Warlock with either Enhance or Conceal
-Wave serpent has twin Bright Lances and a Shuri Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Vectored Engines.
1x10 Warpspiders, Exarch with Spinneret Rifle and Withdraw
2x3 Shining Spears, Exarch with Star Lance and Withdraw
1 Autarch with; Bike, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
1 Farseer with; Bike, Doom, Guide, Spirit Stones
1 Falcon, Scatter Laser, Pulse Laser, Shuri.Cannon, Holo-Fields, Spirit Stones

I would have the Farseer next to the squad of Avengers ready to Guide them and Doom their target.
The Autarch would accompany one squad of S.Spears to hunt tanks.

As nice as that there list is FarseerUlthran, I have to point out a couple of things that are wrong with it (oh how cruel I am!)

First of all is the Warlock, I assume that he's meant to be joined to the Dire Avengers squad by the way you wrote it down, unfortunately Warlocks cannot join up with them or any other squad of Aspects. The only unit Warlocks can join are the various Guardian squads (and the Farseer of course)

Speaking of the Farseer, I think s/he'd be much better off Guiding that Falcon of yours, the BS3 that it has will appreciate it much more than the Dire Avengers BS4 will. Also for the love of god put Vectored Engines on it, you don't want it killed off with an Immobilized result now do you?

Secondly is the Autarch, if you really want to make a Tank Hunter out of him then slap on some Swooping Hawk wings Hmmm nevermind that, I was working under the assumption that models on bikes/jetbikes could only use a one-handed weapon but inspection of the BGB said nothing about said restriction. Perhaps it was a 3rd Edition ruling.....Autarch looks good to go then.

I have to say this about the Shining Spears units though, with how good they've become in the new Codex having two small units with a Star Lance and Withdraw will probably be considered cheesy by some people and for a good reason too. Considering the amount of sheer rapeage that even a small unit can put out (especially with a kitted out Autarch joining them) having another prowling around one probably won't be appreciated by the people you play with.

[FarseerUlthran]

Can warlocks not be detached from the Farseers retinue? I had heard that they could but as I still dont have the codex I dont know for sure. About the Shining Spears, yes two squads of three with Exarch is cheesy. However that is what comes in the box set, they arent available on eBay and there is no way that I will spend a ton on miniatures and then not use them so if the hard core gamers that I play with feel that their all-Battlesuit Tau (never more than twelve fire warriors) or their four defiler nine Obliterator Iron Warriors army will be at a huge disadvantage because of this than I will simply run one squad and use the points to take a squad of Harlequins/Fire Dragons/Wraithgaurd.
However thanks for the heads up about the Warlock.

[Rainspattered]

I'm a moderately experienced model-hobbyist thinking of starting up with Warhammer/40K. In 40K, I'm thinking about going for Eldar, since their models look the coolest to me and they've got a pretty good racial story backing them up and all. So, any advice of any sort would be appreciated.

[UnrealTiger]

Yeah I've got some good advice for you, Eldar rock.

Heh, seriously though, Eldar are a very fragile (very fragile) army with large amount of units that have specialised purposes. In liue of their fragility and specialisation though Eldar pack a walloping punch when used to correctly to exploit your opponents weaknesses. I've found them fun to play but I still don't have much of an army yet since the plastic crack (read:40k miniatures) cost ****eloads.

Farseer Ulthran: Retinue Warlocks cannot be detached from the Farseer's squad (furthermore the Warlock retinue is size 3-10) however you don't need a Farseer in your list to have Warlocks leading your Guardian squads.

Also if you actually play with people who field armies like you described to me then I'm all for you fielding two Shining Spears squadrons. Teach them to go and use ridiculous armies like those...

[Platinum_Mongoose]

I played Eldar. I guess I still do, since I still own the army. I think I'll update it with the new codex and whatnot.
My advice to you is this: learn how to use them correctly. I got them when I was new to the hobby and I thought they were a ranged army. I mean, they're space-Elves, right?
No.
So I got my ass handed to me on a regular basis because I thought I could outshoot Space Marines. The key to using Eldar effectively is coordinating your decoys (Guardians, Jetbikes) to work well with your troops that do actual damage (everything else). Space Marines + Howling Banshees = no more Space Marines. A similar equation applies to Tyranids/Orks/Guard and Shuriken weapons.
To sum up, Eldar are best against low-armor troops, since they can dish out lots of light firepower up close. Lots. Nothing like a full 20-man guardian squad unleashing 40 shots onto... well, anything, really. Just because they're decoys doesn't mean they can't be painful decoys.

[Crazy Owl]

Eldar can still be Ranged base, Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons. They have some good ranged attackers.

[PokeTheBard]

I built an eldar army that outshot marines before. The main problem with them is you need to use tactics and crossfires with Eldar to be a successful shooty army.

Marines generally promote the mindless move, rapid fire, assault, consolidate, repeat scenario. Although very effective, I find it much more satisfying to pull off an intricate plan with fewer, well positioned troops and sunder the enemy advance. Rangers backed up by an 'inconspicuous' vyper ready to strike are very good at this.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Maybe I just hate Space Marines.
Eldar player: "Ok, so I have 10 Guardians. That's 20 shots."
*Roll.*
Eldar player: "Ok, 14 of them hit."
*Roll.*
Eldar player: "10 wounds, awesome."
*Armor save."
Space Marine player: "Aw, man, you killed one. If only my saves could somehow be better, this travesty might have been avoided."

[Saithis Bladewing]

Maybe I just hate Space Marines.
Eldar player: "Ok, so I have 10 Guardians. That's 20 shots."
*Roll.*
Eldar player: "Ok, 14 of them hit."
*Roll.*
Eldar player: "10 wounds, awesome."
*Armor save."
Space Marine player: "Aw, man, you killed one. If only my saves could somehow be better, this travesty might have been avoided."

Sounds to me like you just hate good rollers. ;)

On average a Space Marine should save 66% of wounds caused. That should be only 6-7 of your wounds, so statistically you should have killed 3-4. ;D

[Crazy Owl]

Really I think AP should be changed so that it is a number that takes away armour save down by little bits like how it works by having a higher strength in Fantasy.
Why should a Space Marine get the same amount of protection from bolter as he gets from Hellgun when the bolter has a higher AP.

[majorapat]

Wow let me see. I've been playig 40K and the other smaller box games for nearly 15 years now. (necromunda rocks and so does Warhammer Quest).

So I've got a couple of armies for 40k. I have a Blood Angels and Chaos (Black Crusade) armies for 40K 2nd Edition, both of these are 10K points in 2nd Ed point values at least. Death World Veteran Imperial Guard Army for 3rd / 4th edition, I think this one is about 6000pts. I've also bodged together a Plantetary Defense Force from my Necromunda Gang miniatures. My latest army is the Tau, my list of mini's is below.

1 Ethereal
1 Crisis Battlesuit Commander
2 Crisis Battesuit Bodyguards
3 Crisis Battle Suits
3 Crisis Battle Suits
3 Broadside Battle Suits
3 Stealth Suits
2 Hammerhead's
7 Firewarrior Squads (1 Squad with Pulse Carbines only)
6 Devilfish APC's
1 Pathfinders Squad
1 Devilfish APC
2 Kroot Squads
12 Man Kroot Squad
2 Drone Squads
1 Sniper Drone Team
1 Vespid Stingwing squad (6 Man squad)

I think thats all of it. Couldn't tell you the points cost of it, but all of my Firewarriors have a Devilfish APC, its great for manuevering firepower to where you need it, and also for carrying around that 1 shot missiles the upgraded squad leaders can fire with a markerlight. The Pulse Carbine Squad is great for holding off the enemy while the rest of the force let loose with the fire.

[Pilum]

Really I think AP should be changed so that it is a number that takes away armour save down by little bits like how it works by having a higher strength in Fantasy.
Why should a Space Marine get the same amount of protection from bolter as he gets from Hellgun when the bolter has a higher AP.

Back to RT eh, Ranger? :)

Of course, I play Guard, so whether we're in RT or 4th, I get to the section on armour saves, sigh and turn the page... :D

[Crazy Owl]

RT? Seeing as you said 4th next I take it that you mean something to do with the edition. Is RT an earlier edition of the game?

[PokeTheBard]

"Rogue Trader" was 40k before it was 40k....

...if that makes sense.

[Crazy Owl]

Ah ok. I knew there was a 40K magazine called Rogue Trader but I didnt know it was an earlier version of the game.

[Pilum]

A case where the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000 is pretty accurate. If you've played Necromunda, and possibly even Inquisitor, you've got a rough idea where WH40K:RT was coming from...

Had more background, less emphasis on Chaos and felt a lot more like a skirmish game than the buckets o' dice and figures approach currently in vogue. Both have their place...

[Platinum_Mongoose]

I love Inquisitor. Bad ruleset, but the setting is so rich! I have big plans for an Inquisitor campaign. It isn't easy to organize a game, though, since terrain is so scenario-specific much of the time. It's tempting to ignore the minis and just use the book as a straight-up RPG. Use the minis for combat encounters with rudimentary terrain only.

[Pilum]

To be honest Platinum, I don't know anybody who uses the 'proper' Inquisitor models as anything other than display pieces. We all have FAR too many 40k models in my 'circle' (for want of a better word) going back years - if we want to 'raid' an ork party, we have a Goffik Rok band for background colour; if we need to rescue the leader of a Squat Guild Expedition, we can. Why gimp ourselves for cool scenarios by doing it otherwise? And all Inquisitor needs, from the few times I've flicked through it, is a more thought-out advancement system and you're there.

Of course, with the 40k rpg coming next year, you may not have to...

[Crazy Owl]

I think the idea of Inquisitor models was not very well thought out. It ws meant to be your own character not just one man in a 500 man army. So what do they do, they make models that no matter how much you customize they still look at extremely like the origional. Its lot a more fun to use 40K models for it just so you can make them personnal and they are easier to pose instead of hundreds of Eisenhorns with differant heads.

[FarseerUlthran]

Inquisitor is a great game imo. I play in 40k scale which allows me to field large numbers of NPC mutants/heretics/traitors if I want to. However I prefer the tactical aspects of 40k, more units leads to more options and more involved strategies (anyone who says that 40k is all about the list and dice with no strategy is a liar).
For those of you who have played Necromunda I read the rules and thought that it looked ok, however I liked the rules for Mordheim better and so I have been playing tha ton a regular basis.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Of course, with the 40k rpg coming next year, you may not have to...

Wait... WHAT?
Tell me EVERYTHING you know!

[Pilum]

Wait... WHAT?
Tell me EVERYTHING you know!

Why tell when you can drool at your leisure? :smallwink:
New homepage:
http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=40k

Official launch pushed back now to "next autumn (fall)", apparently, with limited pre-release at GenCon Indy next August.

[FarseerUlthran]

I just got hte new Eldar Codex yesterday!! I am so happy.

[Selrahc]

I play 40K.... Probably too much for it to be healthy.

My kick everyones arse list is a demonic Khornate army.

Other than that, I play a balanced black legion list, Harlequins(And now I need to get the new Eldar codex to see whats happened to them),
Lost and the Damned army using beastmen as mutants, and last but definitely not least, the Deathwing army that is my favourite, 64 Terminators, 1 Landraider and a Landraider Crusader and 2 Dreadnaughts. Its also the only army that I've painted all the models well.

[Krytha]

I play 40K.... Probably too much for it to be healthy.

My kick everyones arse list is a demonic Khornate army.

Other than that, I play a balanced black legion list, Harlequins(And now I need to get the new Eldar codex to see whats happened to them),
Lost and the Damned army using beastmen as mutants, and last but definitely not least, the Deathwing army that is my favourite, 64 Terminators, 1 Landraider and a Landraider Crusader and 2 Dreadnaughts. Its also the only army that I've painted all the models well.

Wow... can you play that army? Doesn't there have to be core units or something?

[Crazy Owl]

Dark Angels get Terminators as a Troop Choice if they are Deathwing I think.

[Selrahc]

I can't play it all in one game since it comes to too many points by far. But yeah, it's a legal list.

Deathwing get Terminators as troops, fast attack, heavy support and elite. They also get terminator command squads. The squads can be a mix of assault and regular terminators, and are stubborn(Pretty much the same as fearless).

In return for that you lose the chance to field all tanks but Land Raiders, and Dreadnaughts. And all troops but terminators. Your commanders have to be in terminator armour too.


Very specialized list, and its an easy one to lose with if you don't play right(Or are unlucky with saves).... but it's fun. A real elite forces feel.

[Crazy Owl]

I can't play it all in one game since it comes to too many points by far. But yeah, it's a legal list.

Deathwing get Terminators as troops, fast attack, heavy support and elite. They also get terminator command squads. The squads can be a mix of assault and regular terminators, and are stubborn(Pretty much the same as fearless).

In return for that you lose the chance to field all tanks but Land Raiders, and Dreadnaughts. And all troops but terminators. Your commanders have to be in terminator armour too.


Very specialized list, and its an easy one to lose with if you don't play right(Or are unlucky with saves).... but it's fun. A real elite forces feel.

Everyone can have Terminator command squads not just Deathwing by the way.

[Selrahc]

Now they can. It used to be a Dark angels only thing though.

[FarseerUlthran]

I will be interested to see what they do with the Deathwing and Ravenwing in the new Dark Angels codex.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Why tell when you can drool at your leisure? :smallwink:
New homepage:
http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=40k

Official launch pushed back now to "next autumn (fall)", apparently, with limited pre-release at GenCon Indy next August.

Hm... the idea of having to learn yet another new system scares me. I might just have to homebrew a Unisystem ruleset.

[blackout]

Wow let me see. I've been playig 40K and the other smaller box games for nearly 15 years now. (necromunda rocks and so does Warhammer Quest).

So I've got a couple of armies for 40k. I have a Blood Angels and Chaos (Black Crusade) armies for 40K 2nd Edition, both of these are 10K points in 2nd Ed point values at least. Death World Veteran Imperial Guard Army for 3rd / 4th edition, I think this one is about 6000pts. I've also bodged together a Plantetary Defense Force from my Necromunda Gang miniatures. My latest army is the Tau, my list of mini's is below.

1 Ethereal
1 Crisis Battlesuit Commander
2 Crisis Battesuit Bodyguards
3 Crisis Battle Suits
3 Crisis Battle Suits
3 Broadside Battle Suits
3 Stealth Suits
2 Hammerhead's
7 Firewarrior Squads (1 Squad with Pulse Carbines only)
6 Devilfish APC's
1 Pathfinders Squad
1 Devilfish APC
2 Kroot Squads
12 Man Kroot Squad
2 Drone Squads
1 Sniper Drone Team
1 Vespid Stingwing squad (6 Man squad)

I think thats all of it. Couldn't tell you the points cost of it, but all of my Firewarriors have a Devilfish APC, its great for manuevering firepower to where you need it, and also for carrying around that 1 shot missiles the upgraded squad leaders can fire with a markerlight. The Pulse Carbine Squad is great for holding off the enemy while the rest of the force let loose with the fire.

Fellow Tau player, do the Tau not rule? :)

[necron lord]

i have a question a the chaos space marienes. i play necrons and i always get slaughtered by chaos. is there a weakness for the evil space marines?

[Krytha]

What kind of space marines? Or are they chaos undivided?

[Crazy Owl]

Yeah theres quite a big differance between Iron warriors and Worldeaters. What is in his army and what is in your army?

[McDeath]

I've just started collecting a Necron army. How do you find the Necrontyr as opponents? How did you beat them (so i can correct those things)? That kind of thing.

[necron lord]

my army is just the necrons and if can have the points i put my necron lord, or monolith. my brother he plays corn berserkers for his chaos army.:smallwink:

[Krytha]

What do you mean if you have the points... You don't normally play with a HQ? If you don't... start using it... Against Khorne, stay AWAY and SHOOT LOTS.

[FarseerUlthran]

What sixe game are you playing (points) because unless it is combat patrol (400 pts) you allways need at least one HQ, if you ment an aditional Necron Lord than I apologize.
Khorne (not corn) Bezerkers are a tough army for Necrons because they excell at the same thing you suck at, CC. This combined with their 3+ armour save means that you will have a dificult fight on your hands.
I will recomend two things that you should allways take against any CC army. These are a Vail of Darkness and a Monolith. Use these two pieces of wargear to get out of combat whenever possible and bring the rest of your army to bear on his closest units. Also accept that the Monolith is not a proper battle tank but a support tank, and in that capacity it performs quite well.
Proper selection of units is critical to make a succesfull list. Now I know that the Phalanx army is the one that the Codex says is best but this is patently untrue. Your army will perform far better especially against CC armies if you through in a few alternative units. I wholeheartedly recomend Flayed Ones and Scarabs as well as (possibly) Tomb Spyders to tie up approaching units while you manuver for a better position.
Lastly the critical weapons against any Meq army are those with AP 3 or better, now the necrons dont have many of these but take as many as you can. That does it for list selection.
Tactics. These are far more important than having a good list despite what other people might say. Firstly get out of combat if you can, I allready mentioned this above. Second keep your units spread out so that he cant just consolidate back into combat. Third have two lords to provide Res. Orb coverage to your entire army, also have your Monolith dead center ready to either pull a unit out of CC, teleport a unit that took heavy casualties (for the extra WBB role), or redeploy an out of position unit. Fourth, deploy your more powerfull shotting units (destroyers, Heavy destroyers, Immortals all of which I recomend) so that they have open fire lanes on the best assualt routes. Fifth, your favorite distance is 18" (6" move plus 12" rapid fire) remember this. Lastly if possibel only allow units to be charged that are either with in 12" of the Monolith or 6" of the Lord w/Veil, these are the units that can teleport out of combat.
How you apply this advice is up to you and the situation, and of course dont do what I said just because I said it-what works for me might not work for you-but all of this is general wisdom that I have picked up playing both with and against Necrons.
Lastly (and I mean it this time) Necrons are probably the easiest army to play but the hardest to play well, so keep with it and you will win eventually.

[Kython]

might I add that it can't hurt to throw in a C'tan (preferably Nightbringer) since they wreak havok in melee. also that the monolith has very little to fear from them, cause the only things that I've found that can possibly damage much less destroy a monolith are weapons/troops/walkers with a str of 8 or more. so the list of things that have the remote chance to do so includes: Bloodthirster, Dreadnoughts, Defilers, and any model that is armed with Melta Guns, Lascannons, Krak Missile Launchers, Blastmasters (on single frequency), or Battle Cannons. nothing else will be able to touch the monolith, I would know from experience. In fact, the thing that can best destroy a monolith, the Vindicare assassin isn't even availible to chaos and even the chances of said assassin are meager at best with a 37.2% chance to destroy the monolith. I'd suggest that you have the monolith near the front line and have supporting troops take care of anything that CAN damage the monolith while said monolith wipes out the remainders.

[Penguinizer]

Is it legal to field a brood of Gaunts with 6 of them armed with flesh borers and 2 with devoureres?

[Kython]

nope... by the 'nids codex I have, termagaunts are only armed with fleshborers...

and if you mean hormagaunts, it's still no, since all they are armed with are scything talons.

... unless you were going with a type of biomorph... wait, no. the codex says and I quote "All creatures in the same brood must have the same bio-weapons and biomorphs."

so if you want gaunts with fleshborers and gaunts with devourers, you'll have to seperate them into different broods.

[Penguinizer]

Ok, but Gaunts can now be armed with flesborers, devourers, and spine fists. Now to rip the arms off of those things.

Any idea how to get the arm stumps off, or any idea how to get the fleshborer arms in place.

[Narmoth]

Question about space marines: how many HQ-choises can I maximally attain and how? (Not counting the Black Templars Emperors Champion)

[Saithis Bladewing]

2 HQs (not counting command squads for them) is the maximum you can achieve, as far as I know, unless you and your opponent agree to use more than one force organisation chart.

[Penguinizer]

The 2 changed gaunts look weird now. Had to dith the original tube arm and make a tube out fo green stuff.

[Narmoth]

2 HQs (not counting command squads for them) is the maximum you can achieve, as far as I know, unless you and your opponent agree to use more than one force organisation chart.

Ok, thanks, it's how I feared the rules are. Just needed to check if there were any loopholes

[Selrahc]

Question about space marines: how many HQ-choises can I maximally attain and how? (Not counting the Black Templars Emperors Champion)

6. 1 command squad containing a Librarian, Chaplain and Master. And another containing the same. Command squads can have Chaplains and Librarians attached to them, without taking up another HQ choice.

Of course an army consisting almost entirely of characters is probably going to get its ass handed to it.

[Saithis Bladewing]

6. 1 command squad containing a Librarian, Chaplain and Master. And another containing the same. Command squads can have Chaplains and Librarians attached to them, without taking up another HQ choice.

Of course an army consisting almost entirely of characters is probably going to get its ass handed to it.

Er, unless I'm very much misreading the rules, a command squad is attached to a character, not vice versa.

[Crazy Owl]

Where did you get the Idea that you could add other characters to a commandsquad? Any way you left the two troops choices you need out of that.

[Penguinizer]

Finally bothered to calculate the point cost to my army. got 44 points to spend to top off at 1000 points.

the army is :
1 Brood Lord with a retinue of 8 genestealers (all of them have toxic sack biomorph).
16 hormogaunts, all with toxic sacs.
2 groups of gaunst, one with spine fists, one with flesh borers. Both have "Without Numbers".
3 Ripper swarms.
1 Zoanthrope with Warp Blast and Synapse Creature as its psycic abilities.
3 warriors. 1 with death spitter and scything talons. 1 with death spitter and rending claws and 1 with 2 sets of scything talons(the second of which I accidentally took from the Carnifex sprue :P)
And my Carnifex with the following Bio Morphs:Adrenal Glands,Extended Carapace, Bonded Exo-skeleton,Reinforced Chitin,Enchanced Senses,Spine Banks,Tail Weapon:Scythe,Flesh Hooks. And as weapons it has: Twin-Linked Devourers, and a set of Scything Talons.

Any constructive criticism is welcome and I know of my lack of a fast attack choice.

[Narmoth]

6. 1 command squad containing a Librarian, Chaplain and Master. And another containing the same. Command squads can have Chaplains and Librarians attached to them, without taking up another HQ choice.

Of course an army consisting almost entirely of characters is probably going to get its ass handed to it.

Thank's for the help I found this rule in a borrowed sm codex
"Space marines special rules:
Librarians and Chaplains may be attached to another character's Command Squad. Only one character might be attached to a single command squad. The attached character, the squad and the character leading it counts as a single HQ choise."

Still, other players claim that the chaplain and librarian have to use a separate HQ slot. So, where can I find a "true" ansver that the other players will have to accept?

[Crazy Owl]

I'm pretty sure that means if you have a character taking up the other HQ unit it can join the command squad like any other squad.

[PokeTheBard]

Nah, it states the main character, squad and "support" character all count as one HQ choice.

It's a stupid idea though, best to stick to a maximum of 2 HQ characters and be done with it.

[Selrahc]

Nah, it states the main character, squad and "support" character all count as one HQ choice.

It's a stupid idea though, best to stick to a maximum of 2 HQ characters and be done with it.

Yeah. If you are trying to get more than two independent characters in you r army... you're playing a weird army.

The option however, is there.

[Penguinizer]

I got 2 independant characters, or does a Carnifex count as one. The I only got the Brood Lord.

[Crazy Owl]

No a Carnifex is just a Monstrous Creature.

[Narmoth]

Yeah. If you are trying to get more than two independent characters in you r army... you're playing a weird army.

The option however, is there.

Bingo! I'm playing a very weird army :thog: chekc out my fluff on the W40k - flupp-pages: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29849

[Penguinizer]

I suspected that. Any comments on the army btw.

And any ideas on how to darken up some Tentacle Pink parts, Im considering a watered down Liche Purple.

[Oshovah]

first post,


i have a 1500 o shovah tau army,


O shovah and 6 bodygaurds (why not 7? i dont know)
1 commander with 2 bodygaurds
3 crisis suits
1 skimmer
1 broadside suit
2 units of 6 fire warriors
2 units of 9 gun drones


i have only just finished painting them (it took ages) now i am waiting to test these badboys out (in a cities of death match would be prefered,

now im working on an ogre kingdoms army (i got bored of my dwarfs, i never want to paint another beard again) my ogre kingdom army is centered around a unit of 12 yhetees and a unit of 16 ironguts with 4 hunters and a tyrant, im unsure what to get next to make up the full 4000 pts i want, (i dont like the idea of a small ogre force, bigger the better (pun intended i think)



what do you guys think?

[Crazy Owl]

I would say take out some Gun drones and put more Broadsides into that squad because you have next to nothing Anti-tank weaponry.

[Oshovah]

I would say take out some Gun drones and put more Broadsides into that squad because you have next to nothing Anti-tank weaponry.



i know what you mean but,

i have the 1 broadside,

skimmer with F blaster.

crisis team a with flamers and F blasters.

all 6 of O shovahs bodygaurds have M pods, 3 of them have F blasters also,

plus O shovahs sword can take out any tank if it gets desperate.

[Crazy Owl]

All of that is pretty close range stuff. I also meant that I have never seen the point in gun drones.

[Saithis Bladewing]

All of that is pretty close range stuff. I also meant that I have never seen the point in gun drones.

They're very cheap jump infantry. That makes them useful in some situations...but most of the time, I'd rather avoid them.

I have to agree with the advice of dropping the gundrones in favour of some broadsides or even a hammerhead if you want mobile longranged firepower. The Hammerhead is nice because it tends to be a better anti-infantry platform than the Broadsides are (Submunitions FTW.)

[Crazy Owl]

I normally prefer Broadsides for the Twin-Linked.

[Saithis Bladewing]

I normally prefer Broadsides for the Twin-Linked.

True, but sometimes that's more firepower than is really necessary. I prefer to only use it when I know I'm going up against something with lots of tanks or really tough tanks.

[Selrahc]

Hammerheads can move twelve inches every turn and still fire the railgun and burst cannons(Assuming the almost standard issue upgrade that lets you shoot as a fast vehicle). That makes it a lot more useful most of the time, since its next to impossible for a close combat squad to take it out. It can be in use until the end of the game, wheras Broadsides will generally be dead or neutralized by turn 3-4.

[Crazy Owl]

Why do you say that? For a start its a vehicle and vehicles take on a lot of shooting in the first few turns because everyone thinks they just need one lucky Lascannon shot to take it out.

[Selrahc]

It really depends oon the type of army, but a constantly moving Hammerhead is generally a hard target to pin down with anti vehicle fire on any battlefield with even reasonable terrain coverage.

All vehicles can be taken out with a lucky shot, Hammerheads are just slightly harder to take down. Same as Land Speeders, they keep moving, they're hard to take down.

[Crazy Owl]

I meant just by being a vehicle it looks like an easy target. I'm used to small point games where any vehicle is quite rare so a pair of Broadsides is usually good enough for any anti-vehicle needs.

[Democratus]

If you are going to have any Broadsides units, then you need to pad that unit out with shield drones. Otherwise you will die very quickly. One lascannon/melta/missile/power fist hit is an instant kill against a Broadsides.

Broadsides are superior against vehicle-heavy armies due to their low cost and incredible AP. The Hammerhead is better if you are fighting horde armies due to the submunitions ability of the vehicle-mounted railgun.

[Krytha]

Really? One power fist hit will kill a broadside?.. Well, I guess that kinda makes sense...

[Crazy Owl]

If you are going to have any Broadsides units, then you need to pad that unit out with shield drones. Otherwise you will die very quickly. One lascannon/melta/missile/power fist hit is an instant kill against a Broadsides.

Broadsides are superior against vehicle-heavy armies due to their low cost and incredible AP. The Hammerhead is better if you are fighting horde armies due to the submunitions ability of the vehicle-mounted railgun.

Well everything you said is just as dangerous to a Hammerheas as a Broadside team. Even with instant kills it will take 3 shots to wipe the squad and a Hammerhead probably wont look do good from three hit either. So with shield drones they are at about the same defence.

[Selrahc]

Well everything you said is just as dangerous to a Hammerheas as a Broadside team. Even with instant kills it will take 3 shots to wipe the squad and a Hammerhead probably wont look do good from three hit either. So with shield drones they are at about the same defence.

I think three hits will do less to a hammerhead than to a unit of broadsides.

50% chance failing to glance(Lascannon), 50% just stunning/shaking it. As opposed to an instant kill on a 2+, ignoring armour.

[madfool2]

What are your opinions on a pure grey knight army, im considering doing one because im fed up of Tau, but don't want to stray away from 40k.

[Krytha]

Greyknights look cool, if nothing else.

[Narmoth]

What are your opinions on a pure grey knight army, im considering doing one because im fed up of Tau, but don't want to stray away from 40k.

As stated earlier, the Grey knights are very expensive for 1 wound models. They don't take much more beating than a standard space marine, and allthroug they do more damage, this only make it all the more bitter when they get killed.
If you are able to get them fast into a chharge, their stormbolters and powerweapons will damage a lot, but this is more or less the only good thing about them.

[Democratus]

I understand your frustration. My primary opponent is Tau. He's been playing 40K for years with other races. I'm relatively new to the game, but I have beaten him every single battle thus far using Templars or Chaos. We even played one battle on a table that was 75% forest (great for Kroot) and it was still a shut-out.

I think Tau may be a bit too underpowered against all but a few opponents. Sad - because the fluff and the models are so nice.

[Murongo]

As stated earlier, the Grey knights are very expensive for 1 wound models. They don't take much more beating than a standard space marine, and allthroug they do more damage, this only make it all the more bitter when they get killed.
If you are able to get them fast into a chharge, their stormbolters and powerweapons will damage a lot, but this is more or less the only good thing about them.

Depends on how well you play them but there are ways around the survivability issue. Meatshielding used to be one good way, since 4.0 tankshielding is the new best way. Deep striking helps, as do transports. Grey knights do more than their share of points in offensive damage, so if you armor them right, and charge very quickly they make for an extremely effective army.

That said, playing pure GK is silly and needlessly limiting. Inducting IG gives you a whole new field of options, espaically in the realm of ranged anti-tank, which Grey Knights badly need. Take into account that you can take armored fist squads without an IG platoon per squad, and you can make a GODLY shield tank out of their chimeras, and equip those squads with meltaguns or rocket launchers- bam, anti-tank problem solved.

Besides, grey knight terminators and heroes are some of the best units in the game, and they look extreme. Theres nothing like the look on your foe's face when your Grand Master and retinue take a ridiculous beating with no casualties, charge, and annialate the enemy's favorite squad.

[Rainspattered]

Having wandered my way into comparative wealth, I find myself wanting to actually play 40K, instead of just read the fluff and enjoy it. I'm comfortable with painting (I've collected, assembled, and painted all sorts of mecha models since I was a little kid), somewhat comfortable with price (High points army so I have to buy less boxes of units? Yessir.), and would like to play Eldar? Any drastic warning about them being incredibly underpowered/much uglier in person than online/irrationally difficult to paint/strangely explosive/etc, or other advice, in general?

[Korias]

Having wandered my way into comparative wealth, I find myself wanting to actually play 40K, instead of just read the fluff and enjoy it. I'm comfortable with painting (I've collected, assembled, and painted all sorts of mecha models since I was a little kid), somewhat comfortable with price (High points army so I have to buy less boxes of units? Yessir.), and would like to play Eldar? Any drastic warning about them being incredibly underpowered/much uglier in person than online/irrationally difficult to paint/strangely explosive/etc, or other advice, in general?

Eldar, to be played, requires a basic understanding of teamwork. Each unit has its own special rules, that help balance everything out.

Swooping hawks, for example, are masters of close combat, whilst the Dark Reapers stay back and blast.

Use everything to your advantage, and build your army around a core, all around force.

[heretic]

No advice on Eldar, but I would like to point out that Games Workshop weights its prices so that no matter what army you play, you end up paying the same.

For instance, you can buy 8 Thousand Son Chaos Marines for $25. Or you can buy 20 Imperial Guardman for $35.

The notable exceptions are where they have replaced more expensive metal models with plastics. But even then, most things are plastic anyway.

[Destro_Yersul]

Having wandered my way into comparative wealth, I find myself wanting to actually play 40K, instead of just read the fluff and enjoy it. I'm comfortable with painting (I've collected, assembled, and painted all sorts of mecha models since I was a little kid), somewhat comfortable with price (High points army so I have to buy less boxes of units? Yessir.), and would like to play Eldar? Any drastic warning about them being incredibly underpowered/much uglier in person than online/irrationally difficult to paint/strangely explosive/etc, or other advice, in general?

Eldar have all those little gems, which can get a bit annoying. of course, if you just paint those as part of the armour it's fine. They can look really really nice when they're painted well. Eldar are decently powerful since the new codex came out, especially the Avater. the Avatar is made of awesome. Wraithlords are a good choice, as are falcons. Dire avengers are good if you give them bladestorm. Guardians are useful for cannon fodder and support weapons. Just my impression.

^: There's a reason for that. Less plastic in the models means more can fit on the sprues. The molds for those things can cost millions, and thus the more numerous armies have to use less plastic. If more of the same sprues are made, each costs less individually.

[Korias]

I understand your frustration. My primary opponent is Tau. He's been playing 40K for years with other races. I'm relatively new to the game, but I have beaten him every single battle thus far using Templars or Chaos. We even played one battle on a table that was 75% forest (great for Kroot) and it was still a shut-out.

I think Tau may be a bit too underpowered against all but a few opponents. Sad - because the fluff and the models are so nice.

Double posting, but that is sadly wrong.

If anything, the tau have two weaknesses: Dumb players, and points-per-model.

A Tau player can easily own anything in a simple 500 Point game. Get 12 Fire warriors, a commander, a 6 man gundrone squad, and a sniper team. Bam. game over.

A Tau player can MASSACRE on a 2000 Point game. Grab 72 Fire warriors. thats a total of 72 shots of 30 Inches range.

The weakness is in the 1000 Point game. He will have a weakness, but a skilled player can cover it up.

Also, get into melee. Assault troops can win against tau any day.

Tau's basic weapon: The Pulse Rifle, Strength 5, AP 5. As opposed to the bolter, a Strength 4 Ap 5 Weapon.

[Rainspattered]

When I looked at building a Lizardman army in Warhammer Fantasy, the price scaling wasn't there; they were in units the same size and the same price as other races, despite a much higher point cost, for the basic units. I take it 40k is different or the rules have changed since last I looked?

[heretic]

I hear the opposite. Cheesy Tau can own anything, by just sitting there and shooting, along with their pansy stealth teams hoping out and then back into cover every turn.

The sweetness happens when you lock'em in melee. They never win. People always say that Tau beat Guard in CC, due to their armor save. That is simply not true. Guard will ALWAYS be the ones on the charge and that will establish numerical superiority first round which dooms them from the start. Add in the sucky init and leadership and they break like a crappy vase.

I have never lost a single close combat against Tau. (not including Kroot. I haven't ever lost a CC to them either, but that's more due to a lack of playing against them)


When I looked at building a Lizardman army in Warhammer Fantasy, the price scaling wasn't there; they were in units the same size and the same price as other races, despite a much higher point cost, for the basic units. I take it 40k is different or the rules have changed since last I looked?

Look at guardsmen and marines. If anything, the guardsmen are a bit bigger. They use more plastic, yet you get more of them for the samw amount of money.

[Destro_Yersul]

Running an army with more models is always more expensive. Eldar have aspect warriors (mostly metal) which makes them cost about the same for a unit and a transport as space marines, or Guard. Guard are one of the more pricey armies, simply because there are so many models in the typical guard army.

^: Yes, but there might be four guard sprues in the box. Marines come with two sprues. GW can afford to sell those four identical sprues for the same price as two different sprues because they are identical. Marine box: two molds. Guard box: one mold. It evens out.

[heretic]

The other problem with large armies is painting every single damn model. Sooo...many...:smalleek:

And then transport space.

[Destro_Yersul]

It isn't so bad with skeletons for Fantasy, or with nids. Guard are the most annoying army to paint, simply because of model volume. Orcs aren't bad either unless you want 'Eavy Metal quality.

[leperkhaun]

I HAD a 4000 point tyrinid army. like a idiot i let the movers move it. most the models broke and nearly all my big models (warriors, hive tyrants...etc) had paint chipped off of em.

Takes too long to put em back and repaint em all.

[Eldpollard]

I've got a small dark eldar army, I had a 1500pt necron army but i sold that. For DE I've got two squads of warriors two raiders and an HQ. So what would you recommend I get next?

[ObsidianRose]

I've been wanting to get started for a while. Just flavorwise, I like the Eldar Harlequins, especially their Solitaires, and the Blood Angels. Does anyone have any advice for getting started, like how I do it?

[crazedloon]

I've got a small dark eldar army, I had a 1500pt necron army but i sold that. For DE I've got two squads of warriors two raiders and an HQ. So what would you recommend I get next?

Sounds like a solid army to start.

I would upgrade the warriors with a splinter cannon and blaster if you have not already. I would put the HQ (I assume archon) on a sky board with a punisher (then the rest of the equipment can be modeled on or most player will not mind you saying it is there)

then for expanding the army I would suggest a unit of wychs they will wreck most basic units quickly however you will need to give them a raider (well any unit should be in a raider as the army is to armor weak to live without them). Then I would suggest a ravager for a great antitank or anti special unit vehicle.

So that is:
archon = 203
-punisher
-agoniser
-punisher helm
-combat drugs
-animus Vitae
-Vexentrope
-plasma grenades
-shadow field
-helion skyboard
-gruesom talismans

Wyches = 244
-9 wychs
-wych weapons
-plasma grenades
- succubus
-agoniser
-plasma grenades
-raider
-slave snares

warrior squad w/raider x2 = 330
-20 warriors
-2 splinter cannons
-2 blasters
-2 raiders
-slave snares

helions = 126

-7 helions

ravager = 125
-screaming jets
-2x disintegrators

This is a very fast army that is close combat oriented (as most DE lists are) It should be effective against most armies and provides great variety for the player as far as models and playing the army.

[Reptilus]

I still want to know why the Loaxatl army doesn't exist yet. I want to play 40k, but I don't want to have the Lizardmen 4 Lyfe tattoos that cover my entire uppoer body to the point of being illegible removed.
(There is also a tattoo denoting that undead and ogres are an exception, but neither of them live in space, either. At least not with fluff intact.))

[Eldpollard]

Sounds like a solid army to start.

I would upgrade the warriors with a splinter cannon and blaster if you have not already. I would put the HQ (I assume archon) on a sky board with a punisher (then the rest of the equipment can be modeled on or most player will not mind you saying it is there)

then for expanding the army I would suggest a unit of wychs they will wreck most basic units quickly however you will need to give them a raider (well any unit should be in a raider as the army is to armor weak to live without them). Then I would suggest a ravager for a great antitank or anti special unit vehicle.

So that is:
archon = 203
-punisher
-agoniser
-punisher helm
-combat drugs
-animus Vitae
-Vexentrope
-plasma grenades
-shadow field
-helion skyboard
-gruesom talismans

Wyches = 244
-9 wychs
-wych weapons
-plasma grenades
- succubus
-agoniser
-plasma grenades
-raider
-slave snares

warrior squad w/raider x2 = 330
-20 warriors
-2 splinter cannons
-2 blasters
-2 raiders
-slave snares

helions = 126

-7 helions

ravager = 125
-screaming jets
-2x disintegrators

This is a very fast army that is close combat oriented (as most DE lists are) It should be effective against most armies and provides great variety for the player as far as models and playing the army.

Thanks a lot, helpful thing is wyches now come in boxes as well. That is a lot of help.

[crazedloon]

^^ you do not understand how happy I am that they came out with the box (it may just cause me to collect a wych army :smallamused: )

[king korath]

I'm just starting a necron army. The models are awesome and they can be very strong. Using borrowed models I played a 500 point game against Tau and won hands down. Also they are as close to evil as it gets in 40K. Sure Chaos wants your soul, but C'tan want to eat every soul.

[crazedloon]

I'm just starting a necron army. The models are awesome and they can be very strong. Using borrowed models I played a 500 point game against Tau and won hands down. Also they are as close to evil as it gets in 40K. Sure Chaos wants your soul, but C'tan want to eat every soul.

You obviously don't know the story or fluff for Slaanesh. He/she has been eating every soul of the eldar since his/her birth. Then you have the DE who not only were the cause for the creation of the Slaanesh but the eye of terror and still give souls to Slaanesh (to save theirs)

I am not saying the C'tan are not evil they are just far from the closest to evil. Plus the C'tan's power is pathetic when compared to the chaos gods. The only really reason they have such power is because the Chaos gods are bound within the Warp however if they were allowed to influence the material all hell would break lose (see eye of terror :smallwink: )

[king korath]

Sure good point crazedloon. But The C'tan have one thing that is better than the Chaos Gods. They have models so you can use them in a game. Also I like the metal look of Necrons over Chaos.

[crazedloon]

to true and I love the nightbringer's model.

I personally like some of the necron models but armies of them look bland their one vehicle is bland (pretty much a cube) and really there is not much converting you can do with them beyond a converted C'Tan and possibly a converted lord/pariah/flayed ones the others at best you will be making in a new position were as chaos is just so convert friendly

[Destro_Yersul]

Agreed. The problem with Necrons is that they've got one (1) troops choice. Thus their armies are going to be fairly static. Admittedly the monolith is also the most borken vehicle evah, so everyone but the Necron players hate it. In addition, it is as you say. Converting Necrons is like repainting a car. Adds colour, but it doesn't look that different. Converting chaos, on the other hand... Needless to say, eye covered dreadnoughts are extremely badass.

[Dr._Weird]

So, I've been meaning to get into WH or WH40K for like, forever. Dark Crusade is awesome, and it would be great to paint models and make scenery for the tabletop game.

What I want to know is, if I decide to play Space Marines or Tyranids, is the Battle of Macragge boxed thingy good for starting off my army? Are the scenarios fun?

[Sampi]

The Battle For Macragge is good for introduction to the game - it has a rules booklet and some models, and decent terrain. If you already know you want to get into the game, I'd go for buying the rulebook and models, not the box. The battleforces can be ok for starters, they tend to give you a legal starter army (2 troops, 1 HQ, something else), but make sure you want those models. The discount isn't that good.

The scenarios in BFM are .. okay, but they do not really give you a good sense of what the game is.

[Bryn]

BFM has quite a few Space Marines and Tyranids in there, although they're exclusively Troops models (you'll have to get a seperate HQ). I never actually played the scenarios: they look quite interesting, but neither me nor my brother are Tyranids players.

The best bit of the box, IMO, is the terrain: there are some rather good crashed ship pieces in there that fit in on most 40k boards. You could probably get the crashed ship seperately on EBay or something though. There is also a rulebook, but it is small and paperback and will have to be replaced (mine is pretty much ruined). It also has a lot cut out - background, Kill Team, etc., so you're much better off with the main rulebook.

[crazedloon]

So, I've been meaning to get into WH or WH40K for like, forever. Dark Crusade is awesome, and it would be great to paint models and make scenery for the tabletop game.

What I want to know is, if I decide to play Space Marines or Tyranids, is the Battle of Macragge boxed thingy good for starting off my army? Are the scenarios fun?

If you are planning on playing marines or nids I would suggest the box. You get everything in the box at a reduced price. It is how I started the game (though when I started they had DE in the box and that is my army if you cant tell :smallwink: ) and I never regreted it. You get the big rule book which nearly pays for the box itself and a bunch of realy nice smaller book that I wish I had (it is lighter then the big thing and easier to find what you need) the templats are must and those terrain pieces are beautiful compaired to what I got in my box :smallwink: .

My opinion if you are starting ether of those armys buy it becuase it is a good investment. But I would suggest buying a battleforces HQ and obviously the codex. This is a great start for any army and should keep you busy for some time. also that combo will give you a nice set of models to learn to play with as there should not be anything to complex rules wise

[Battle Mage]

hey guys. im relatively new to warhammer-i only just bought the BFM box set, however i have played using other peoples armies a couple times before.
Basically im a person who likes tactical games, and id like to get a better idea about the mathematics of the game. If you can give me a brief outline about which army is best for which attributes/type of players, that would be great!
thanks in advance
BM

[Eldpollard]

hey guys. im relatively new to warhammer-i only just bought the BFM box set, however i have played using other peoples armies a couple times before.
Basically im a person who likes tactical games, and id like to get a better idea about the mathematics of the game. If you can give me a brief outline about which army is best for which attributes/type of players, that would be great!
thanks in advance
BM

If you want tactics I'd suggest warhammer fantasy. It's far more strategic.

[Merik]

Yay! It's great to see so many other players here. I've just completed assembling the first 500 points of my Tau army and just need to get the materials to paint them. I really hope i have some sort of untapped talent because I really don't want my hooved lovelies to like some sort of fingerpainting abomination.

[Were-Sandwich]

One thing 40K could do with is a "Defensive Fire Phase" after the shooting phase, where the other guys get to shoot back. It would make the game more strategic, as units would actually get shot at as they assaulted :smalleek:, you know, like, they would.

[Bryn]

Forge World created some alternative rules for fighting in complexes. Part of it was the 'Stand and Shoot' option: instead of fighting back in assault when charged, a unit was instead able to fire all its weapons at the people assaulting them. Unfortunately, I can't remember the details, and they have now removed them from their site to publish in Imperial Armour IV: the Anphelion Project... if you can afford the book (which I can't - no book should cost anywhere near that much), there are rules in there.

Or just houserule it.

[crazedloon]

One thing 40K could do with is a "Defensive Fire Phase" after the shooting phase, where the other guys get to shoot back. It would make the game more strategic, as units would actually get shot at as they assaulted :smalleek:, you know, like, they would.

Well the idea is you are supposed to have shot them the turn before they assault as no weapon has less then a 12 range (except flamer) and most units only have a 12 charge.

If you find that you get charged a bunch without a good shooting phase there are some tactics but it depends on the army you are playing.

But if you do really want more strategy then 40K I would suggest Fantasy as it is more built in the fashion you want. For example if you get charged you have options such as stand, flee, stand and shoot, and then the movement in that game is a pain in the butt but allows more strategy as you can block and impede movement with your own.

[Were-Sandwich]

The thing is, I like the 40K universe, but its the rules that really get on my nerves. "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only ignoring-our-big-guns-and-running-up-and-beating-people-up-with-clubs-because-its-more-effective-than-shooting" Seriously, why is assault so much better than shooting, at least in my experience?

[crazedloon]

Well you are just playing the game wrong :smallwink: :smalltongue:

But realy you are very right that the game is very CC oriented after all the two armys spend 1-2 turns closing then they are in close combat and its little shooting from then on. However with the right army and a properly built army you can potentialy draw out the game to 3-4 turns to close all the while shooting however it is hard to play that way.

[nathkry]

The fusion pistol has a rang of 6", and it's a melta weapon on a pistol, which makes it pretty bad. You can give them to harlequins.

Anyway, Warhammer Fantasy has a "stand and shoot" response to charging, which allows everyone in a unit to fire at a unit charging them, at -1 BS, but they might only get one shot a model, I don't really remember the specifics.

[Penguinizer]

Meh, Im a tad too lazy about painting my figs.

But would this sound fine for a 500 point army.

Brood Lord: Extended Carapace,Toxin Sacs.
Retinue: 8 Genestealers: Extended Carapace. 1 flesh hooks, 1 feeding tendrils

Lictor

8 Gaunts: Spinefists
8 Gaunts: Fleshborers

Zoanthrope: Powers:Warp Blast, Synapse Creature.

[madfool2]

Im painting up an Eldar and slowly starting my own DIY chapter of marines, mainly because painting Eldar is....painful, im not a fan of it.

[Penguinizer]

I got a good way of mass painting nids. Its basically layers of paints and wash finished with matt varnish.

[Selrahc]

But realy you are very right that the game is very CC oriented after all the two armys spend 1-2 turns closing then they are in close combat and its little shooting from then on. However with the right army and a properly built army you can potentialy draw out the game to 3-4 turns to close all the while shooting however it is hard to play that way.

The base standard for how far away you are is 24" between deployment zones. And 12" deployment zones.

So if your shooty force is deployed at the backline, then an average unit is taking 4 turns to get into combat, with no tricks.

[Dragor]

I've managed to get my Witch Hunters up and running- if with a little (I.E. a lot) rush painting. In games I've played against Space Marines, I've lost by a narrow margin, due to bad dice rolls.

(Dreadnought, Melta Bombs, Sisters of Battle. I need to roll a 6. 4 members in the squad. I roll 6 times- no sixes.)

It was still good fun- I can't wait to see the look on his face when I bring out the heavier troops. :smallbiggrin:

[Clover]

Meh, Im a tad too lazy about painting my figs.

But would this sound fine for a 500 point army.

Brood Lord: Extended Carapace,Toxin Sacs.
Retinue: 8 Genestealers: Extended Carapace. 1 flesh hooks, 1 feeding tendrils

Lictor

8 Gaunts: Spinefists
8 Gaunts: Fleshborers

Zoanthrope: Powers:Warp Blast, Synapse Creature.

hmm... you may want to swap the Lictor for another Thrope (specifically with synapse) you should always try and have at least one synapse unit per brood hat need synapse and then keep em nearby... in my eyes the brrodlord doesn't count towards that as he'll most likley be infiltrating and therefore not much of a help to the rest of the army... everything else in the list is fine...

[crazedloon]

The base standard for how far away you are is 24" between deployment zones. And 12" deployment zones.

So if your shooty force is deployed at the backline, then an average unit is taking 4 turns to get into combat, with no tricks.

Ok that is understandable but then you have to understand that would put you around 36" away. most standard troop units have a range of 24" thus you are gaining little from actually deploying that far away and a smart opponent will abuse the fact that you have effectively made half your army ineffective by moving only 11" thus forcing you to move up to get into range at that point you are well within range for some armies (then again I am talking from a dark eldar players perspective where no matter where you deploy I will be in combat turn 2 unless you blast me out of the sky). Also with proper use of terrain an opposing army can funnel your units view so that they can not effectively see enough of the bored until it is too late.

the only army that realy can affoard the 36" away deploment is tua but that is cus they have a cheesy 30" range on their rifles :smalltongue:

[Penguinizer]

The thing is, I cant get another thrope since im broke :P

The thrope will stick with the 2 gaunt broods while the lictor+lord infiltrate.

[Sephiroth]

well my brother is a big no BIG fan of WH40K he has an 4000 point army of tyirtys eldar chaos which i am getting as well and his main battle force of two land radiers 3 preatder 15 squads of space maris and the god of the utra chaptor (marice calador Sorry about my spelling )

[Selrahc]

Ok that is understandable but then you have to understand that would put you around 36" away. most standard troop units have a range of 24" thus you are gaining little from actually deploying that far away and a smart opponent will abuse the fact that you have effectively made half your army ineffective by moving only 11" thus forcing you to move up to get into range at that point you are well within range for some armies (then again I am talking from a dark eldar players perspective where no matter where you deploy I will be in combat turn 2 unless you blast me out of the sky). Also with proper use of terrain an opposing army can funnel your units view so that they can not effectively see enough of the bored until it is too late.

the only army that realy can affoard the 36" away deploment is tua but that is cus they have a cheesy 30" range on their rifles :smalltongue:

No... combat army agaionst shooty army, deploy on the back line if you are the shooty army. And do not move forward.

You outshoot him, you should have Lascannons, Heavy bolters and other long ranged weapons, so you can chip away at your oponent. A shooty army is never just standard issue troop guns, except possibly in the Tau.

Don't move forward to get in rage, force your opponent to walk into range. Hes close combat, hes going to be coming at you.

If you are on the back line, he gets in two turns later. Which is two turns for you to use anti tank to kill his tanks, whittle away some of the bigger units with anti troop. etc. And then he'll come in range of the bolters/whatever.

[crazedloon]

No... combat army agaionst shooty army, deploy on the back line if you are the shooty army. And do not move forward.

You outshoot him, you should have Lascannons, Heavy bolters and other long ranged weapons, so you can chip away at your oponent. A shooty army is never just standard issue troop guns, except possibly in the Tau.

Don't move forward to get in rage, force your opponent to walk into range. Hes close combat, hes going to be coming at you.

If you are on the back line, he gets in two turns later. Which is two turns for you to use anti tank to kill his tanks, whittle away some of the bigger units with anti troop. etc. And then he'll come in range of the bolters/whatever.
of course that is the Idea and against normal tank dependant armys this is a great tactic but how do you deal with DE (once again this is from experience) they will come at you 12 inchs at deploment 24 on turn 1 you have 1 turn to shoot them with your best shot being a glancing due to speed. you will take down mabey 2-3 of them but next turn they move 12 deploy 2 fleet 1-6 assualt 6 (that is 51-56 inches in 2 turns)

now that is a full pedal to the medal sort of tactic (not to smart as you will be close enough for even normal weapons to get you) now if instead the player plays it smart and moves 12" (18 if they have shadow fields) then next turn another 12,2 1-6 that gets them across the board just as well but you will have less that can shoot at them.

by no means am I saying the sit back and shoot method will not work becuase it will against most armys however there are some tactics that sit and shoot just won work for.

[Wehrkind]

Now, I have played a total of 6 games, all with my friend who as also played a total of 6. So take any advice with a grain of salt...

I am running a Sisters army, and my friend made a little chaos. My SoBs have 2 10 girl units, one with melta and storm bolter special weapons and a Superior with a plastma pistol. The other has two flamers. They are supported by an exorcist tank and a 5 girl seraphim unit, with a rotating extra unit I can't decide on yet. My buddy has a big flying rip off your arms demon prince of Khorne, Kharne the betrayer (Captain Insano), with berserkers, one 5 man marine unit with las cannon, and a unit of 2 obliterators.
Now, essentially his plan is to shoot las cannons at the girls while the berserkers and the demon and Kharn just run in (they have to, but get extra move).

My plans have varied between suck and win. I found the biggest trick was judging the move distances, and having my Sisters ready to support each other so even if one unit has to fall back to avoid a next turn charge (at a possible 24" for the flying demon, that could be rough) the other can fire. The best way to make that work was to use the unit of Seraphim as a screening force. I can shoot through them, and with their "hit and run" ability I can let them be charged, or charge after firing, then at the end of my opponants turn have them book it, leaving his melee troops exposed.
Now, I have had very poor luck so far (though learning he has to summon that damned prince instead of just starting with him helps...) but I think the key to a Sister's army is judging distances, since their big punch seems to come from massive bolter fire while keeping them out of melee.

Also, melta bombs roll 2d6 for penetration, not 1d6. I think you mean krak grenades, since melta bombs almost can't roll too low for dread armor (2 or 3 to miss.) Krak would require 6s though. I roll with melta on my Seraphim, though my only opponant doesn't sport tanks, just because I don't like relying on a 6 to hit even low armor like a dread. A plasma pistol is more likely to hurt it :(

[crazedloon]

Sisters can be a very vicious army. Their key ability is (oh I can not remember what you call it :smalleek: ) the thing where you get the special abilities. Then pack a Sister superior (or whatever you call them the vets) in every unit. When you are running out or low on the above ability just kill of the superior and you gain a point back. Add onto that the number of flamers you can get into one unit you can rip through most units.

I have to say your army sounds very well balanced as for the "rotating" unit I would suggest more seraphim. The biggest problem you have with the berserkers is the unpredictable movement range; however with a good sized seraphim unit you can "control" their movement. By harrying the berserker squads you can slow them down while whittling them away. The best way to do that is charge them (never let yourself be charged unless you can do more damage with a stand and shoot because an opposing charge will probably be more deadly then you getting into combat 1 turn earlier) then dipping out at the end of your opponents turn and getting another charge. Then move your sister units up close into flamer range so that when you dip out with the seraphim you can unload and charge with 2 units. As for dealing with the big guy (actually I thought you can start with a prince you may want to check that... or not :smallwink: ) I suggest unloading your exorcist tank on him until he drops. Then focus on the obliterators as they can be deadly for your tank but they are not nearly effective enough to scare your other units.

Sisters can do well in CC but you are correct short range bursts from flamer/bolter/heavy bolters can be devastating. You just need to control his movement to help judge distance and most important is target priority. As far as his army goes drop the prince ASAP as you will have a hard time dealing with it if you let it run around unkilled because of its high maneuverability + strength, then the Obliterators as they are flexible enough to threaten anything but If you can kill them before your tank dies then you have a powerful weapon that well destroy the basic troops.

Just my .02 (well built army again :smallwink: )

[Penguinizer]

I wonder, what is the most troops you can fit into a 500 point army. Im counting around 100 gaunts with only spinefists. or 125 un-armed gaunts.

[crazedloon]

I wonder, what is the most troops you can fit into a 500 point army. Im counting around 100 gaunts with only spinefists. or 125 un-armed gaunts.

your not thinking bad enough :smallwink:

30 grots 1 slave = 99 x4 = 396
1 painboy/big mek (no equipment) 25 + 396 = 421
so thats 1 more slaver with 23 grots for a total of

1 painboy
5 slavers
143 grots
--------------
149 models :smallwink:

[Sampi]

There are many solutions to avoiding close combat in 40k - deployment is one of them. The problem with that one is that most armies will have faster moving units that can cover the distance quickly. Say, fast skimmer transports / fleet of foot / bikes / infiltrating / whatever. Another way of keeping your firepower effective is to have it mobile. This works pretty well with Tau, Marines or Eldar. (I'm currently building a mechanized eldar army). A third choice is to use dedicated or resilient CC units to keep the enemy from advancing - bog them down in combat. The downside to that is that you can't shoot through combat. You could use the time to redeploy your other units, though.

[Bryn]

Edit: Double-simu. So, IG come 3rd after Orks and 'Nids...

Imperial Guard win on one Force Organisation chart, but I don't know about 500 points. Let me see...

Junior Officer, no upgrades: 40 points. 1 model.
Conscript platoon 1: 5 squads of 10. 200 points. 50 models.
Conscript platoon 2: ditto above. Another 50 models.
I'd put in more conscripts, but I'd need 2 squads and that would put me 20 over the limit. Instead, the best option seems to be Hardened Veterans, since they are the cheapest unit to let me take only 1 squad. Therefore, 7 models at 56 points, leaving you 4 points to spare.

That makes 108 models in 500 (or rather 496) points by my calculation. Doesn't quite beat 'Nids, but it's close. Feel free to look for a way to add more to that.

More interesting is that Guard can have a 100-man legal Combat Patrol force in 400 pts. They'd be useless against tanks, but the look on your opponents face...
"I thought Combat Patrol involved small armies?"

[Narmoth]

There are many solutions to avoiding close combat in 40k - deployment is one of them. The problem with that one is that most armies will have faster moving units that can cover the distance quickly. Say, fast skimmer transports / fleet of foot / bikes / infiltrating / whatever. Another way of keeping your firepower effective is to have it mobile. This works pretty well with Tau, Marines or Eldar. (I'm currently building a mechanized eldar army). A third choice is to use dedicated or resilient CC units to keep the enemy from advancing - bog them down in combat. The downside to that is that you can't shoot through combat. You could use the time to redeploy your other units, though.

My solution for my SM army is simple: True grit. I can keep up a fight at a distance, suported by sniper scouts and devastators, so I don't need to go in close combat, and at the same time I do good hand to hand damage. With the snipers I can pin any fast advancing unit, and with the devastators I take out tanks and such that might be advancing towards me.
Of course, it costs more pointvise, but it gives my more options.

[Scroofy]

Nothing can stop the force of the Waaagh!


first post btw :P

[Wehrkind]

Edit: The whole point of this post was to say "I did what Death Quaker told me to, and it worked" yet I managed to fail to insert that anywhere...

Yea, I am liking my Sisters army pretty well, even if I am doing a lot more martyring of girls than glorification of the Emporer.
for the rotating slot, I am thinking either more Seraphim or some Repentia. Mostly because I have like 15 repentia painted with mistress, and their chainswords (power fists essentially) and inability to fail morale make them fairly appealing against a demon prince, should the Exorcist get dropped. Toss in a priest and reroll missed hits on a charge? Hot. The other advantage is the Repentia have the Holy Frenzy, which gives them a chance to move an extra d6 towards the nearest enemy, typically a melee unit, which likely will be forced to more towards them. If they fail a morale check, they move 2d6 immediately towards the nearest enemy... It's just excting. The little S&M outfits are also excting.
The Acts of Faith really do make the army though. Getting bolter fire to ignore armor on wounds of 6s? Pretty sexy. Invulnerable saves equal to your armor save (3+)? You might as well hand your opponant a can of urine labeled "Frustration."
The trouble I have in melee is their Str 3. Having to roll 5+ to wound marines, or blow a faith point to get str 5 and strike dead last hurts. I did have the pride of seeing the girls bitch slap his berserkers in 3 rounds of melee. Those girls, they be passionate.

[Lucid_Archon]

So sorry to bug you all, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about it recently and I've become interested. The question is, how do I start? It took me five years to go from interest to involvement in D&D, and I rather forego that this time, so I ask the veterans of this game. Is there some sort of starting set or something. Or a core set of books?

[crazedloon]

So sorry to bug you all, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about it recently and I've become interested. The question is, how do I start? It took me five years to go from interest to involvement in D&D, and I rather forego that this time, so I ask the veterans of this game. Is there some sort of starting set or something. Or a core set of books?

Well there are realy only 2 "core books" you will need these are the rule book and your codex. You wont need any other codex besides your becuase your opponent will have it and you will probably get to know other codexs through fighting the army.

My suggestion is got to Games Workshop talk with the people there normaly the staff is pretty nice and there should be some gamers there. They can make in person suggestions but a lot of how you start is personal prefference.

I would suggest buying the rule book. With that you can learn how to play and then read some of the fluff behind the diffrent races and then you can go buy the codex for that race. Once you have the codex (or even when you are buying it look through it to make sure you like the army and see what units you can get) buy an HQ and 2 troop choices. This is what is considered your "core" army i.e. you need those before you can add anything else. I would suggest you stick with those build/paint them and bring them in to a hooby shop I am sure you will be able to find a person willing to play even at that low of a point army. From there expand your army as you see fit

[Penguinizer]

Heh, I dont have a rule book...

If I need one I might borrow my friends rulebook.

[Wehrkind]

Yea, I got started the same way. I actually detested Games Workshop for some reason when I was a younger wargamer, but when the pc game came out I gave it a shot and really got sucked in.

I got the rule book (big investment, but completely worth it) and from there decided what army to play. The fluff really helps, and poking around the different descriptions and forums I sort of developed an idea of what I liked. So I bought a bunch of space marines cheap off eBay. Then I got enamored of the idea of a Sisters of Pucca army. So I threw more money at minis, and my marines are all unpainted in a cabinet (along with a pile of orks.)

The moral of that is, get the rule book, and go to a few online stores to get codex's (save ~5$) of armies you think you will like, and use tokens for troops, or go to stores and see if people will play demo games with you to try out army types. Unless you have more money than sense, and your wife doesn't mind you dumping some of it on hobbies. (Thank god for over time :) )

[crazedloon]

That is the one thing I do not like about the new rulebook (and I love it as its got great pictures and fluff) it lacks the "intro" codexs in the back that the 3.0 had. That alone alowed me to imagine the armys I would have if I had the money :smalltongue:

[Scroofy]

So sorry to bug you all, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about it recently and I've become interested. The question is, how do I start? It took me five years to go from interest to involvement in D&D, and I rather forego that this time, so I ask the veterans of this game. Is there some sort of starting set or something. Or a core set of books?

There is a core rule book which outlines all the basic rules for almost 90% of scenarios that you will come across.There is also a starter set that gives you a bunch of models from two different armies, Space Marines and Tyranids when I last check. This set along withthe armies comes with the core rule book, templates, measuring stick and some other nick nacks. I would definetly recommend this for you si nce you are just trying to get yourself familiarized withthe game. The starter set will probably run you around $100 give or take. The core rulebook itself is $70 so you are prolly gonna save around $50 with the set. I peronally already have an army and just found the book online and printed off the tables and rules that I need to know or am unfamiliar with.

Eventually when you decide on what army you want to pick (Go with Orks they are the coolest! :p) you will need to get a codex which goes into detail with the background of your chosen army. It also shows you some special rules for the army as well as upgrades and a special hero or two.

[Wehrkind]

Holy crap... you should be able to get the 4th edition rule book for 30-40$. That and a codex at 12020$ is all you need book wise. Spending more than ~40-60$ for the paper goods you need is a bit much. Granted, that is US dollars, not that Canadian stuff... :)
One thing to be careful of though, if you get the rule books online from eBay or Amazon, be CERTAIN of the edition. A lot of sellers neglect to mention that extremely pertinent fact. I accidentally bought a 3rd ed. core book, though I decided to keep it since it was only 10$ and had the starter lists in the back. Still, I was quite unhappy at first.
A good rule of thumb is to check Games Workshop's site for the cover art, and compare to the pic in the listing. Since some armies have like 15 codexs (marines) it can be handy to make certain you are not getting a slightly out of date version.
Honestly though, I would go to a good gaming store and peruse the codexs for a few hours while talking to the workers to see what you want to do. I can recommend a good store in Bethlehem PA if you live near there.

[Scroofy]

Yea things are a little more expensive up here, plus the 14% tax doesn't help much.. Oh well

[Were-Sandwich]

I don't like the GW staff. I can't speak for the US staff, but the ones on our side of the pond are nauseating. They are sickeningly hyperactive, always in-you-face, loud, immature and just generally annoying. Thats why I buy from my FLGS when I can.

[Penguinizer]

The ones at the store in Helsinki are fine. Once I just browsed things for an hour and was only asked once if I had an army and such. They are also pretty helpful.

[Sampi]

Oh, you're in Helsinki, Penguinizer. Perhaps a game of the miniatures is called for at some point?

[Penguinizer]

Nope, But I live a managable distance from it. I doubt I will get around to playing with you :P

mostly due to age and such. And getting my army painted.

[Wehrkind]

They are decent here in the states. The official line guys are quite nice in my experience, emailing me kit instructions for my exorcist, and being very cheerful. The store down in Philly had a decent guy, though some of the customers hanging around were... creepy. I am used to periodically feeling the urge to knock someone down and steal their lunch money in game shops, but I have only rarely met gamers who made me feel dirty, and that purging them with fire would be for the eternal benefit of man kind.

I think I just realized what cemented my fondness for Sisters of Battle...

[Wehrkind]

Hey, I was wondering as well, what exactly is the rule, or where exactly where I find it, about the "Favored Number" for units of chaos? I see it mentioned in the Codex, but for the life of me I can not find the rule spelled out anywhere. I always figured my reading comprehension was pretty good...

[Scroofy]

They are decent here in the states. The official line guys are quite nice in my experience, emailing me kit instructions for my exorcist, and being very cheerful. The store down in Philly had a decent guy, though some of the customers hanging around were... creepy. I am used to periodically feeling the urge to knock someone down and steal their lunch money in game shops, but I have only rarely met gamers who made me feel dirty, and that purging them with fire would be for the eternal benefit of man kind.

I think I just realized what cemented my fondness for Sisters of Battle...

The ones up here are pretty good as well, only critique I had is that they tend to follow me around a lot and that kind of gets on my nerves a little. I try to ignore them as best I can without coming across as a complete *Insert bad word of choice*

[nathkry]

My local store out in Olympia, WA is really good. It's not an official Games Workshop store, just a gaming shop, but they have a lot of stuff, and warhammer nights once a week, with monthly tourneys. It's pretty sweet.

[Penguinizer]

There is another gaming store some distance from where I live. Its somewhat cheaper than GW but has less in stock. I still prefer GW mostly due to ease of travel.

[Kantur]

Hey, I was wondering as well, what exactly is the rule, or where exactly where I find it, about the "Favored Number" for units of chaos? I see it mentioned in the Codex, but for the life of me I can not find the rule spelled out anywhere. I always figured my reading comprehension was pretty good...

Are you looking for the information about what the favoured numbers are or the benefits of them?

I think (don't have the codex here, so it's from memory), the information about what the favoured numbers are is on the page opposite Fabius Bile (46ish?) I think it's before all of the army lists for Black Legion/Iron Warriors/Alpha Legion/etc. I know it's before the Khorne/Slaanesh/Nurgle/Tzeentch army lists though.

Information about the benefits is in the Khorne/Slaanesh/Nurgle/Tzeentch army lists under "Playing a pure World Eaters/Emperor's Children/Death Guard/Thousand Sons army". Bear in mind though the benefits are only for a pure army - I've seen plenty of people get confused about that in the past.

[Penguinizer]

Gah, Lictors are a pain to glue together, mostly since when I get one part on, another one falls off.I will be spray painting the thing by tomorrow if it stays together.

[crazedloon]

Gah, Lictors are a pain to glue together, mostly since when I get one part on, another one falls off.I will be spray painting the thing by tomorrow if it stays together.

I would suggest investing in a pin vice (the little drill for modeling) this way you can pin those anoying parts together with paperclips they will be 100 times stronger and will actualy stick together and then pining helps for making conversions and the like.

[Wehrkind]

Re Favored number: AHHHH. Ok I was finding the bit about where it said what constituted Favored, but couldn't find the effect because I didn't care enough about Chaos to find the specifics for each god. Now I know! The other half of the battle is smiting those vile heretics with the bolter of the righteous! For the Immortal Emporer!

Yea, I use a Dremel instead of a pin vise (but I might get a pin vise too... shhhh don't tell my wife.) Pinning things is just about the best thing you will do for any model. It really makes any join a lot stronger, so back packs might not need it, but any Penitent Engine limb, ork nob piece, anything you want to reall stay is totally worth pinning. The only thing I don't pin are things I intend to put rare earth magnets in to make interchangable, like Dreadnought weapons.

[Penguinizer]

I might get a pin vice. But im honestly just plain broke. And I got plans for what to get on my birthday. I hope I get money from my grandparents XD

I also need to get some other hobby stuff.

[Dragor]

I don't like the GW staff. I can't speak for the US staff, but the ones on our side of the pond are nauseating. They are sickeningly hyperactive, always in-you-face, loud, immature and just generally annoying. Thats why I buy from my FLGS when I can.

You in the UK? If so, I'm 100% with you. They give the game a bad face- they just confirm 'Nerd' most of the time. They should just let the people who play there introduce the game much more casually. It'd work better.

[Nix307]

In my experiance the games workshop staff are really helpful

[Were-Sandwich]

I was at SALUTE '07 yesterday (great Con), and realised soemthing: All the GW stores I had been in have given me an aversion to standing still too long at a gaming stand. There were lots of participation games I would have loved to play, and could easily have got a place on, if I had just stayed at the stall longer.

Same for shop-browsing. I would have bought a lot more cool miniatures, but I found myself unable to stand there for long enough without an overwhelming urge to walk away swiftly, lest a hyperactive fat guy jump out of nowhere and start rapidly asking me if I have ever played warhammer before and if I'd like to buy some paints and some models.

Stupid GW.

[Scroofy]

I was at SALUTE '07 yesterday (great Con), and realised soemthing: All the GW stores I had been in have given me an aversion to standing still too long at a gaming stand. There were lots of participation games I would have loved to play, and could easily have got a place on, if I had just stayed at the stall longer.

Same for shop-browsing. I would have bought a lot more cool miniatures, but I found myself unable to stand there for long enough without an overwhelming urge to walk away swiftly, lest a hyperactive fat guy jump out of nowhere and start rapidly asking me if I have ever played warhammer before and if I'd like to buy some paints and some models.

Stupid GW.

Yea they can be like that sometimes. I bet they are all on commission...poor guys

[nathkry]

Does anyone know if wraithlords get an extra attack for a second close combat attack? They have two attacks base in their profile, but the codex doesn't specifically say that they get an extra attack. If they don't then they are worse than I though at close combat.

[Wehrkind]

I think, think mind you, that things are not to be considered included in the profile unless specifically stated as such. I know a lot of units have options that include extra close combat weapons, but don't list it because there is the possibility of none, and still show multiple attacks because that is just what they get.
Now, given the spotty character of some codex's, I can't be certain of that, but I think you should assume they get +1 due to an extra close combat weapon unless it says "included in profile".

[Sir_Banjo]

Originally Posted by Lucid_Archon http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2416918#post2416918)
So sorry to bug you all, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about it recently and I've become interested. The question is, how do I start? It took me five years to go from interest to involvement in D&D, and I rather forego that this time, so I ask the veterans of this game. Is there some sort of starting set or something. Or a core set of books?

You'll need the main rulebook and a codex. To start the game, you don't actually need the minatures as you can proxy them with whatever is at hand. You probably won't be able to do this in stores or the like, but in friendly matches no one should have a problem, especially as you're just starting out.

It's also worth noting that whilst all armies are generally balanced, even if those who haven't had a codex in five years (*cough*Orks*cough*), some are more expensive or have a steeper learning curve. I play both Imperial Guard and Space Marines and let me tell you, the guard is an incredibly difficult army to master. On the good days I can hold my own but when things are going badly, you just have to hold your head high and resign yourself to the fact that "Guard die". Space Marines, whether Imperial or Chaos, are easier to come to grips with as they can do just about anything. The Imperial marines especially have few quirks about them, so using them is a good way to learn the rules.

So my advice to you is to somehow get your hands on a couple of codex books that you're interested in and play some proxy battles. That gives you a chance to not only come to terms and experiment with the army list but also helps you decide if that army is for you. From here, buy the basic HQ and 2 Troops, add a few units you like or find effective and you've got your army!!

Never over look your Troops though, they're like having a good Con score in DnD as they let you stay in the fight for longer.

Hope this helps,

Sir_Banjo

[Penguinizer]

Nids might be the simplest. Since you can basically just rush. But there is a lot of room for improvement due to different tactics such as many deepstriking units. (I think the max you can deep strike in a game is around 100 units. 3 Gargoyle swarms, 2 Broodlords with genestealer retinues, a group of 3 Lictors) Among other things.

And as for modeling, tons of room for changes and customisation.

By the way, how would I go about attaching a venomcannon to the other side from where it usually is?

And does a Carnifex get 2 attacks with a venom cannon and 2 with a Barbed strangle if it has both.

[Scroofy]

Nids might be the simplest. Since you can basically just rush. But there is a lot of room for improvement due to different tactics such as many deepstriking units. (I think the max you can deep strike in a game is around 100 units. 3 Gargoyle swarms, 2 Broodlords with genestealer retinues, a group of 3 Lictors) Among other things.

And as for modeling, tons of room for changes and customisation.

By the way, how would I go about attaching a venomcannon to the other side from where it usually is?

And does a Carnifex get 2 attacks with a venom cannon and 2 with a Barbed strangle if it has both.

Yea 'nids are pretty simple, but I think they easiest army to learn is the Necrons. They basically have one basic troop you use a couple HQ type units and a monolith...thats it. By far the easist army to master since it is so...simple. Do not confuse simple with ineffective though necrons can be a pain to kill..

[Penguinizer]

True. Nid's have more variety though. With more chances for a lot of customisations from switching arms, to switching heads, to almost making a figure from scratch.

[Wehrkind]

My buddy picked up Chaos really fast, making a little mostly Khorne army that worked very well for him in a hurry. Considering he never played that kind of game before, where I had quite a few times, and he is kind of an idiot, well, it leads me to believe that Chaos is prone to tricks.
I had to help him build his army though, since Chaos is the army of "How much do you want to spend?" Way too many options for a beginner most likely.

[Scroofy]

I've never played with/against chaos...all my friends have imperials, marines, nids or eldar. I am always the :smallbiggrin: bad guy lol. GO ORKS :D

[1dominator]

Hmmmm im thinking of starting an IG or Tau army, anyone got any tips for me concerning, figures/strategies/army makeup?
-Dom

[crazedloon]

Hmmmm im thinking of starting an IG or Tau army, anyone got any tips for me concerning, figures/strategies/army makeup?
-Dom

It depends very much on you.

Painting:
IG expect a lot of painting and if you want it look good even more
Tau:Can look good with less painitng

Army:
IG: larger and thus more expensive to buy
Harder strategy as well as a more flexable game style
Tau:Smaller army so less expensive
relativly the same game style

Models:
IG:expect a lot of tanks and men.
Great conversion options
Tau:A good array of diffrent models
Conversions realy only on the commanders.

[1dominator]

Thanks, IG it is then, I really do prefer a more flxible playing style, and conversions are always fun. Besides painting is half the fun!
But as for Suggestions, for the actual army? Im pretty much open to any suggestions.
-Dom

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Take Bretonnian Menat-Arms, and give them Cadian equipment. Here's a link to mine:
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93630&referrerid=19452

And a link to Dave Taylor's:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/imperialguard/painting/ig_catalog_conv/default.htm

Very nice.

[Bryn]

All links are to UK editions of products in this post
Well, I use standard Cadians with the Forge World parts, which can be found here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/CADIAN_SHOCK_TROOPS.html). I convert them with Green Stuff and Tyranid parts to theme my army around the background linked in my sig. After that, I'm planning to collect Vostroyans (http://uk.games-workshop.com/imperialguard/vostroyans/1/).

If you have money to burn, then Forge World do Death Korps of Krieg (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/DEATH_KORPS_OF_KRIEG.html) and Elysian Drop Troops (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_ELYSIAN_DROP_TROOPS.html).

[1dominator]

Take Bretonnian Menat-Arms, and give them Cadian equipment. Here's a link to mine:
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93630&referrerid=19452

And a link to Dave Taylor's:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/imperialguard/painting/ig_catalog_conv/default.htm

Very nice.

Priceless, especially love the hats.
-Dom

[Jacob_Gallagher]

They aren't too expensive either. You get 16 Men-at-Arms for $35, then you can get the weapons you need for around $10, so $45 for 16... Much cheaper than Forge World, or you can do as I did and just buy some extra Lasguns + a Cadian set. Since the Cadian set comes with extra weapons, you give some to the MaA (plus the few lasguns you bought) and use the Cadians as Conscripts.

Oh, and use Librarium-Online.com. One of the best 40k/fantasy sites I know.

[onasuma]

but one better is 40k online (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?act=idx) [/shamless plug]

[heretic]

Thanks, IG it is then, I really do prefer a more flxible playing style, and conversions are always fun. Besides painting is half the fun!
But as for Suggestions, for the actual army? Im pretty much open to any suggestions.
-Dom

IG are less flexible than Tau, and I play IG.

But good choice anyway. Remember that 90% of the doctrines are worthless.

Has anyone else heard the rumor that the Dark Eldar are getting a rerelease and maybe new codex later this year?

Because if they are, I'm totally starting DA.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I have bene wanting to start getting into Warhammer 40k. It seems like alot of fun, if also costly and work intensive...It seems though that a good game is well worth the effort.

I had been trying to figure out what army to collect...Though I think that I might finally settle on Tyranids. I have been looking on what would be the most simple force to collect, and it looks like just buying the tyranid battleforce a couple of times over the course of a few months would be the most efficient way to get enough bugs to fill an army and all that would be left to buy would be a hive tyrant later on.

My other choices were gonna be IG and SM. I love the idea of the guard always being the underdog and having massive amounts of firepower with really cool tanks...unfortunately, it seems that because of their force org and the way they are packaged, it would be very costly to collect them as opposed to Nids which come with just about everything you need in a few packages. I also considered the spacemarines...a generic chapter...as an all around army, I figured that they would be good for a beginner...also, a pair of Megaforce boxes looked like all one needed for a fairly well rounded 2000 pt army that had some flexibility to change.

'Nids should be fun though...I look forward to fielding 8 monsterous creatures...Oh...my goal would be to one day have a 2 on 2 3,000 pt battle (1,500 each player) and have me and my teammate both play 'nids and each take 2 tyrants and 6 carnifexes...along with an assload of whatever else we want to toss their way.who cares who the opponent is...I just wanna see 8 monstrosities on a single table on their way to murder ****...that would be histerical.

[Scroofy]

Go Orks...lol

Nids are fun, whatever you choose you will have a blast

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Hmmm...has anyone ever seen someone take the maximum number of basic gaunts possible? I mean...you can technically get 192 fleshbore equipped guants for a measly 1152 pts...

with that you could take 2 devourer tyrants, 2 heavy weapon carnifexes, and 3 zoanthropes with synapse and warp blast, and 3 warriors in a 2,000 pt army and flood the field with so much fire that they could never possibly kill all your bugs....wow...'Nids are fun...you can never have too many bugs...as you can just readjust your force for infinite fun *lol*

[PlatinumJester]

We knew someone in our primary school whose dad could make molds of any warhammer piece which kicked arse 'cos it cost about 3p to make a replica miniature whereas in the shop they cost £20 or whatever that translates into dollars

[Fuzzy_Juan]

We knew someone in our primary school whose dad could make molds of any warhammer piece which kicked arse 'cos it cost about 3p to make a replica miniature whereas in the shop they cost £20 or whatever that translates into dollars

Well, techically, it shouldn't be that hard but the mould would have to be specific to the model if it was assembled...it would be far easier to copy the sprues. Make a plaster cast of the sprue on both sides, clamp them together and fill with either resin or some other plastic like substance that will harden into a good figure...open the mould and clip off stuff when done...

making the proper mould is the hard part, but if one was able, it could easily save money on models that you need an assload of like guardsmen and bugs, or any basic troop choice.

Of course...being able to replicate tanks and other large models would be neat too...

[Wehrkind]

Honestly, pick the army with the figures and fluff you like. The rest is sort of irrelevant. It is terrifically difficult to get more than a general play style sense of each army just reading the codex's with out playing any games. Some armies are more or less flexible, but I think you will be a lot happier in the long run starting with the army that makes you go "Whoah! That is SO cool!" than trying to find the "best" army, either in terms of cash or gaming power. Since you are pretty much doomed to blow lots of cash and likely to collect more than one army eventually, the money aspect is decieving, and since someone is going to make your army curl up in a ball and cry, power is decieving.

[Kojiro Kakita]

Well, I am going to play my friends smurf army in the near future, with my eldar army. Can someone remind me if Craftworlds are still allowed, else my entire ranger army is doomed to the cupboard.

[Wehrkind]

On Dark Eldar: Screw them. When are they going to make an Ork codex that doesn't rely on the 3rd edition rules for weapons stats!? GAH!


Sorry, needed to get that out of my system. I have a strong distaste for Games Workshop's "like X, only EEEEVIL" tendancy. Not that almost every fantasy/scifi universe doesn't pull it at one point or another, but still, it irks me. You don't see tea sipping, flower planting, goody two shoes orks, nor cattle farming necrons, nor tyranids focused on "sustainable consumption." I am sort of hoping Dark Eldar go the way of the sqats. I am not necesarily opposed to a fast melee oriented army, but only the poor fluff. I am rather opposed to a futuristic game where melee is more dominant than massed fire power, but that is another issue.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Well...if they actually made powered armor that was so strong that gunfire meant little but amplified one's strength so much that you could kill with weapons better than guns...why would you not use melee weapons and utilize close combat rather than small arms?

Those with powered armor and aliens with high strength tend to focus on melee, especially the orcs since their tech skills suck and the 'nids who are just odd monsters...I mean...with the exception of special weapons that are spotty or so large/expensive that they are not used much else you run out (las, plasma)...armor and other factors make ranged shooting secondary to being able to hold your own in a hand to hand battle.

Especially given the 'enemy's' tendancy to swarm you 'en masse and attack you hand to hand. The Imperium must meet the threat however they can...those who can't...get more guns (guard)

[Mr._Blinky]

I've got a small Dark Angels army, and I'm wondering what I should get next. Since I generally only do small skirmishes, I'd prefer to wait on getting a tank till I've got some more infantry. So far my army list is (don't have a Rulebook handy, so I can't remember the points):

1 Tactical Squad (1 sergeant w/plasma pistol, 1 marine w/flamer, 1 marine w/plasma cannon, 7 marines)

1 Scout Squad (1 scout sergeant, 4 scouts)

1 Combat Squad (5 marines)

1 Devastator Squad (1 sergeant, 5 marines, 1 marine w/heavy bolter, 1 marine w/plasma cannon, 1 marine w/lascannon, 1 marine w/missile launcher)

1 Commander

1 Librarian w/Terminator Armour

1 Chaplain w/bike

So what should I get next? I was thinking maybe a squad of assault termys, or maybe some scouts with snipers, depending on whether I want more close range power or long range power.

[Wehrkind]

Fuzzy, I can understand why they did it, since it is fun to have both, but it doesn't make sense in the fluff aspect. I mean, ok, say a round from a bolter is not 100% likely to go through power armor. That makes sense to me. However, if it can't always, why can a hand swung bolter itself have any chance what so ever? The kinetic energy or a bolter round should be vastly superior than the energy contained in say a chain sword. Not that I don't think chain swords are super cool (I have been tempted to buy those "chain saws on a stick" at hard ware stores like you wouldn't believe.) It's just that logically, it doesn't make sense that a str 4 marine should be able to hit as hard as a bolter firing a .75 round at presumably >1500fps, which explodes.
Now, it does make sense that a carnifex should be able to crush marines, just because it's mass is so immense, and presumably powerful, that crushing a set of armor is analogus to stepping on a soda can. Even then though, there is a limit, and I would be more comfortable with them perhaps tossing enemies around, and periodically killing, than just squishing outright. (Which would be a cool game mechanic. If they hit, but do not wound, roll a scatter die and d6, move a model that many inches in the direction indicated.)
I guess what I am really getting at is that without special melee weapons (power weapons) melee should be much less lethal for units in power armor, to the point of being silly. Which I suppose it is a bit, but the melee mechanic seems to be favored too much over massed shooting.

That's just my take it on it now, something to be read with the realization I rather like the rules. Just that bit bugs me. Well, that and I think 4x4 tables are laughably small, limiting movement and tactical decisions to the point that games become much more dependant on the roll of dice and army composition than tactics.

Edited for clarity.

[crazedloon]

well the idea is you are
1. attacking weak spots in the armor (no armor is perfect)
2. the weapon has been made to deal with the current tech of the time.

in your example the marine with the bolter hitting something isnt hitting the breast plate nor is he sticking to just his bolter. He may just be nocking his opponent off balance in time to pin the opponents arm on the ground before stomping on it with the full force of his muscles and armor to snap the arm in half before unloading a volley at point blank range.

I think your problem is you are caught up by the fact that it is a abstract world.

And what the heck are you talking about for the orks? I play both armys if you are talking about the dumb lack of a weapon chart in the codex well that was dumb but realy the DE need an update (plus if I am not mistaken orks are next or next next in line for an update so quite you ***ching DE arent even on the list :smalltongue: )

[Wehrkind]

Yea, no armor is perfect, but a bolter having the same chance to go through armor as a chain sword strikes me as highly questionable. Power weapons make oodles of sense, and like I said, the system does make power armored units very durable in melee, but honestly, an "in universe" look makes me think that melee is over powered in the rules. Or perhaps I should say it is more common than is likely, though I do recognize that it includes point blank shooting, not just thwacking.

As to Ork, what page are the stats for a shooter on? Or a big shooter? Or Grot Blastas? Now, I know they put out a summary chart on the internet for them, but still, not offering a new version or at least a suplement while continuing to produce and sell the version that requires the outdated rule book to use is just sloppy. "Everything you need to play an Ork WAAAGH! Except some vital information."

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I'm curious...Can someone shoot into a melee? I know the rules don't allow shooting into a melee in general from outside, but are there certian weapons or abilities that will allow for that?

What about ordinance...can you shoot it into a melee and just not care if your own men get hit? (I am assuming that if artillary hits your own dudes they get hurt) I mean...if I was able to tie up a large squad enemies with a smaller squad, or one that was just less costly...I probably would take the chance and drop a pie plate on their bunched up unit and not care if it took a few of mine with it.

[Scroofy]

I've got a small Dark Angels army, and I'm wondering what I should get next. Since I generally only do small skirmishes, I'd prefer to wait on getting a tank till I've got some more infantry. So far my army list is (don't have a Rulebook handy, so I can't remember the points):

1 Tactical Squad (1 sergeant w/plasma pistol, 1 marine w/flamer, 1 marine w/plasma cannon, 7 marines)

1 Scout Squad (1 scout sergeant, 4 scouts)

1 Combat Squad (5 marines)

1 Devastator Squad (1 sergeant, 5 marines, 1 marine w/heavy bolter, 1 marine w/plasma cannon, 1 marine w/lascannon, 1 marine w/missile launcher)

1 Commander

1 Librarian w/Terminator Armour

1 Chaplain w/bike

So what should I get next? I was thinking maybe a squad of assault termys, or maybe some scouts with snipers, depending on whether I want more close range power or long range power.

If I were you I would prolly go with either another tactical squad or even a bike squadron to roll with your chaplain. Just my thoughts...I haven't played a marine army since...early 3rd edition lol

[lumberofdabeast]

I call upon the power of the internets! *THUNDERCRASH*

I saw a picture somewhere a while back, of Tau XV-15s (Possibly 25s, but I doubt it). It was a desert theme or something similar, and while the top half was the familiar blacks and purples, the bottom half was the same orangey color as the base.

Does anyone have this picture? I cannot find it for the life of me.

[Wehrkind]

Lumber: try 4chan's request forum. Might get lucky. Might even get sexy.

Fuzzy: Saddly, you can not place any template over your own troops, nor can you fire into melee EVER. A shot can drift onto them in the case of ordinance, but you can't do it on purpose. Why, I don't know. I would love to be able to fire my Sister's flamers into melee. "Sure... pile on in there Ork boyz... now let's see if that 6+ save helps against napalm as well as a 3+."

Hell, even being able to fire a flamer through one of my own units would be handy. "Damn it Christine! Stop getting in front of me when I am trying to barbeque heretics!"

[Fuzzy_Juan]

can you set a template over enemy troops in melee and just not care if it drifts on your own, or can you not place any template weapon over any melee unless it drifts there of it's own accord?

[lumberofdabeast]

Not my comp. 4chan is blocked on it, for reasons I'm not gonna go into.

[Wehrkind]

Fuzzy: No template over your own troops evar, unless it drifts. And you can also never shoot into melee, unless it drifts. (Now, as I recall the rules do not specifically say that you CAN in the case of drifts, but they seem to imply that drifting ordenance hits whatever is underneath it. I will check when work lightens up a little tonight.)

Lumber: My guess it involves the "sexy" option :-P

[Eldpollard]

If something does scatter onto something else then yes they are hit.

[Everto]

I played my cousin on monday and decided to write a Battle Report, when I typed it in, I had to send it to him first before I put it online so it will come later today.

[Penguinizer]

Meh, I need to apply the basecoat to my lictor. Then I can continue on the painting.

[Bryn]

Battle (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=546) reports (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=430) you (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=433) say (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=445)? :smallwink:

[Scroofy]

Hey, have any of you tried those new paints that GW has come out with? I can't remember their names but supposedly they cover up areas really well and with only a singly coat. Good if you primed with black and want some bright coloured areas.

Thoughts opinions?

[Everto]

Battle (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=546) reports (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=430) you (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=433) say (http://z13.invisionfree.com/40K_Online/index.php?showtopic=445)? :smallwink:

Yeah real fancy sruff you got there but I don't think your commander will be happy with half a novel.:smallwink:

I usually just write the facts, but I think I'm going to have a hand at that narrator stuff. Expect it later though.

[Creeps]

I'm late to the thread but..eh.

I am a devout fan of Papa Nurgle. I play a Lost & the Damned Nurgle force and a healthy portion of Plague Marines. So far, I kinda suck. I don't practice as often as I should. I haven't felt like going to the shop every Saturday, recently.

Speaking of suck, I also have an old Ork Speed Freek army that I was planning on doing 2nd ed Freebootah style. Orky pirates. Yar.

Also also, I got a buncha IG tanks for a song and I really wanna make a theme army revolving the restless dead of the Guard based on the poem "In Flanders Fields" with poppies on bases, crosses, etc...but I really wanna get the Death Korps models, first, and those are retarculously expensive.

[Penguinizer]

I haven't tried the foundation paints. And they probably won't work well with my painting style. I got some more painting to do this weekend.

[heretic]

Basically GW wants your money. What's new.

[Jalil]

So, I just won a monolith off ebay for <$40, but now I gotta assemble the beast. Then comes painting. Any tips? (other than; "Don't screw up")

[Penguinizer]

Highlighting makes it look better.

On another note, I will be getting a pin vice and another zoanthrope on Thursday :D

I still have to paint my other figs XD

I sware I will get around to doing it, when is a different matter.

[Scroofy]

So, I just won a monolith off ebay for <$40, but now I gotta assemble the beast. Then comes painting. Any tips? (other than; "Don't screw up")

Take your time hehe :p

[Bryn]

I found that drybrushing for the highlights generally works well on large models such as tanks and buildings... presumably it would work on a monolith too.

I am not an expert painter, though, so there are probably better ways to do it.

[Jalil]

Ok, I've purchased the models, I only wait upon thier delivery. I've picked a theme I think I can live with, called The Red Blue Curse (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=82038). For the monolith, I'll go with this scheme, following the same palette as the warriors.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a132/Evisceratus/Necrons/monolith008.jpg

What do you think about that?

[nathkry]

Not bad. I lke the tiny little base underneath it. :smallsmile: The paint job is pretty good, but the colors seem a bit too solid for my tastes. The blue looks cool, though.

[Scroofy]

Looks pretty sweet

[Wehrkind]

For the blue highlights, I did a similar blue highlight on my Sister's black armor. I started doing a light dry brush, but as I did more I started just lining in the highlights on the sharp edges (knee cops, breast plates and collars) with a fine brush, and only dry brushing on the softer edges and hands. It really makes the details pop, and looking at the monolith's panels, it looks like it would help you (and cut back on touch ups of dry brushing gone wild.)

I started a "Care and Painting of Mini's" thread a while back, and DeathQuaker gave some excellent tips as well, and her web page link has even more.

[DeathQuaker]

Ok, I've purchased the models, I only wait upon thier delivery. I've picked a theme I think I can live with, called The Red Blue Curse (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=82038).

What do you think about that?

Looks cool. Nice color selection, clean lines. My only thought is that the metallics scream for a brown or chestnut ink wash.