Health & Fitness, or buff-itp!

[The Anarresti]

Welcome to what I hope will become a regularly returning thread: health nuts in the playground! This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224070) over here got derailed pretty completely into discussions of general fitness tips, so some of us decided that it was high time for a health and wellness thread.

Feel free to post questions regarding fitness, health, nutrition, proper weightlifting technique, etc. You can even ask any of our forum regulars directly, even though this is likely to be a much less sensitive topic than relationships or depression.

Of Note

This is not to be a medical advice thread. Advice given is purely the opinion of amateur fitness geeks and should not be taken as real medical advice. If you have a real health complaint beyond strained muscles or tips for avoiding the common cold I strongly advise seeing a real medical professional.
No advertisement. There are a lot of entrepreneurs, some scrupulous, others unburdened by conscience, who sell health products. These can be diets, books, whey powder, vitamins, home gyms, the list goes on and on. While you certainly can recommend this or that product, I'd be far more comfortable if people kept their advice brand-generic, such as recommending "Whey Protein" instead of a particular brand.
Both of the above rules are actual forum rules, not just my arbitrary decision.


TO COME: A list of Health & Wellness FAQs, with answers from myself and other health nuts in the playground.

[Haruki-kun]

Hmmm... let me provide some links.

Liam Rosen Fitness (http://liamrosen.com/fitness.html)
Stronglifts (http://stronglifts.com/)
The Starting Strength Wiki (http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki)
Nutrition Facts search engine (http://nutritiondata.self.com/)

And some stuff!
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/trainingemphasis.png

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/fat-v-muscle.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/colas.jpg

[Icewalker]

Might I start this thread with the opposite of a common question?

I am a pretty thin and wiry guy. I'm reasonably fit, but not exceptionally so. I've recently started getting a lot more exercise, through things like gymnastics, rock climbing, and martial arts.

I want to build strength and endurance, however, I DON'T want to end up looking all big and heavily muscled. What are the best ways to get stronger / get more endurance with a minimum change in appearance?

Judging from Haruki's table, I would guess that I would want either very small sets of very difficult exercises, or very very long sets of less difficult exercises, to best gain strength and endurance without putting on a lot of muscle mass?

[Spiryt]

I want to build strength and endurance, however, I DON'T want to end up looking all big and heavily muscled. What are the best ways to get stronger / get more endurance with a minimum change in appearance?


Quite simply, if you don't want to look big, you won't.

It's quite common question from what I've seen, I guess that gamer folk don't like the look of big people from whatever reason. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

However, getting really big and stocky is goal in itself to many people, and it don't come easily at all, especially for wiry people.

So you don't have to worry about it.

But, if you're really thin and wiry, gaining strength will pretty naturally come together with slight increase in muscle mass and general 'solidness' at some place.

Dunno if there's a reason to avoid it.

There are plenty of exercises to increase the strength/power of given amount of muscle, anyway.

Generally speaking, Haruki's chart hints at very basic principle - few repeats at high intensity generally are optimal for building sheer static strength.

So a lot of weight that you can do only few reps with, really.

But again, starting with large weight's might not be safe for beginning.

As for endurance goes, it's probably best to train it individually, by running and similar stuff.

[Liffguard]

I want to build strength and endurance, however, I DON'T want to end up looking all big and heavily muscled. What are the best ways to get stronger / get more endurance with a minimum change in appearance?

Pretty much repeating what Spiryt said, you can't seriously bulk up by accident. Seriously, there are thousands of guys who dedicate every effort to getting as big as possible and even for them it's still a long, tough struggle. If you learn the secret of bulking up without even trying then congratulations, you've worked out something you can sell for millions.

That said, if you want to get stronger you'll have to accept that you're going to be putting on some extra muscle. You won't end up looking like Ronnie Coleman but a little extra mass is inevitable.

Generally speaking, to get strong you want to be doing compound lifts (e.g. squats, deadlifts, barbell rows, bench press) with high weight and low reps. As far as endurance goes, well, building strength tends to build up more muscular endurance, but building up endurance doesn't tend to build up as much strength. I.e. someone who can bench 400lbs for one rep can certainly bench 200lbs for ten, but the inverse is not necessarily so.

The stronglifts website has already been linked in the second post. I recommend checking it out.

[Spiryt]

It generally seems that good beginner training for strength is increasing % of max weight lifted every week, with reducing number of reps, of course.

After reaching minimals amount of reps with a lot of weight, one starts new cycle with a bit bigger starting weight this time.

Adding to general rule of relatively few high intensity reps.


As far as endurance goes, well, building strength tends to build up more muscular endurance, but building up endurance doesn't tend to build up as much strength. I.e. someone who can bench 400lbs for one rep can certainly bench 200lbs for ten, but the inverse is not necessarily s

It's also worth specify what one actually means/wants from endurance - to my humble knowledge muscular endurance and general cardiovascular endurance can very well not be much related.

[Liffguard]

It's also worth specify what one actually means/wants from endurance - to my humble knowledge muscular endurance and general cardiovascular endurance can very well not be much related.

Oh, absolutely. Muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance are not the same thing. I think the latter is technically referred to as stamina in order to differentiate them (or is that the other way around?).

[Haruki-kun]

I want to build strength and endurance, however, I DON'T want to end up looking all big and heavily muscled. What are the best ways to get stronger / get more endurance with a minimum change in appearance?

That's easy. Don't take steroids. :smalltongue:

It's a common question, but as has been pointed out, you have nothing to worry about. Those heavily muscled guys have been working out for years and years, dieting carefully, supplementing carefully, and quite often, juicing up. You're not gonna wake up one day and think "Oh, shoot, those weights yesterday got me ripped."

The best thing you can do when starting out is to lift for the purpose of gaining strength. Later on, you can focus on mass. I wish someone had told me this when I started out, it would have saved me a lot of time....

[Spiryt]

Oh, absolutely. Muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance are not the same thing. I think the latter is technically referred to as stamina in order to differentiate them (or is that the other way around?).

Well, obviously not the same, I mostly meant that those don't have to be much related either, so someone can make tonnes of intensive strength feats, and still get tired after jogging for few minutes.

And vice versa.


That's easy. Don't take steroids. :smalltongue:

.

You can use steroids to improve mainly strength and endurance too though. It's another simplification to equate them with muscle gain. :smallwink:

[Haruki-kun]

Heh. I know. But I'm just being silly with that, don't read too much into it. :smallwink:

[Shadow of the Sun]

I approve of this thread.

For playgrounders who, like me, are unfit and a bit doughy, if you'd like to lose some weight and build some cardiovascular endurance to allow you to play sports and such, there is the following:

C25K Running Program (http://www.c25k.com/)

It's designed to get someone who is entirely unused to running to being able to jog 3 miles without having to stop for rest or walking. I'm planning to use this to build up some cardio before moving into HIIT territory; I'd already be pretty far along if it wasn't for the fact that it is now summer in Australia and thus not very good exercising weather.

It's a shame, too, because I enjoy running. It's fun!

As for strength, at the moment, I'm building my pushup numbers and trying to fix my shoddy diet; once I can do twenty good form pushups without any issues, I'll start working on one-armers; I'm also going to get a pullup bar installed.

After that, I'm gonna be working on more gymnastic stuff - handstands, planches, levers, L-sits, the like.

[The Anarresti]

Might I start this thread with the opposite of a common question?

I am a pretty thin and wiry guy. I'm reasonably fit, but not exceptionally so. I've recently started getting a lot more exercise, through things like gymnastics, rock climbing, and martial arts.

I want to build strength and endurance, however, I DON'T want to end up looking all big and heavily muscled. What are the best ways to get stronger / get more endurance with a minimum change in appearance?

Judging from Haruki's table, I would guess that I would want either very small sets of very difficult exercises, or very very long sets of less difficult exercises, to best gain strength and endurance without putting on a lot of muscle mass?


This is precisely what I do with my swim team. I began as a stick figure, and am now a very well-toned muscular stick figure.
If you like, I'll post some swim team work outs for you to try. Before I do, however, how much experience do you have weightlifting? I don't want to tell you to go squat and then have you squat incorrectly and bust your back.
I would like to say, though, don't use machines. These only train a muscle group. Instead, exercise with free weights, most preferably dumbbells, kettlebells, and medicine balls. These will work balance and coordination as well as strength, without packing on a lot of extra mass. Buying a beginner's guide to Russian Kettlebells and a kettlebell itself may be a good place to start. I can also give you step-by-step instructions on how to do a lot of workouts, but I am afraid that without much visual aids and no real-life feedback I could just lead to more injury.
There is a maxim among physical trainers that I have talked to: "Athletes train motions, not muscle groups."

EDIT:



As for strength, at the moment, I'm building my pushup numbers and trying to fix my shoddy diet; once I can do twenty good form pushups without any issues, I'll start working on one-armers; I'm also going to get a pullup bar installed.

After that, I'm gonna be working on more gymnastic stuff - handstands, planches, levers, L-sits, the like.

Shadow of the Sun, be wary. One-armed pushups are hard, showy, and not that worthwhile. If you put your arm in the correct spot, you fall over, and if you put it in the middle of the floor in front of you, you will put undue strain on your shoulder tendons and risk injury.
Also, the other things you described are very hard and advanced. If you have prior gymnastics experience then you know better than me, I've only tried them on my own, and halfway succeeded. Just... be careful, and try to train for real strength, co-ordination and flexibility rather than going straight for the showy stuff. That's how people get hurt.
I do many pushups, eaisly doing 20 in a row, and I've never used one-armed push ups. If you're looking for advanced push-ups, I'd say star, plyometric or tricep-ball.

Star: To do a star push-up, place your hands so that the tips of the thumbs and forefingers are touching, making a triangle directly beneath your sternum. Then, do the push-up. This will be much harder, as it puts the strain on your naturally weaker muscles.

Tricep-ball: Tricep-ball is really hard, I used to be absolutely unable to do one, when I was able to do 15 perfect normal push-ups in a row. Take any ball the rough size of a soccer ball and grip it in both hands, on hand on either side. Place the ball directly beneath your sternum, and execute a push-up. This is like a star, only it also works your core and your balance capabilities.

Lesser Tricep-ball: For a less impossible push-up that still pushes your capabilities, put your hands in the normal position but put a soccer ball (or similarly sized sphere) beneath one of your hands. Execute the push-up, being sure to keep yourself level and no tip over to the side. Switch the ball from each hand every five to ten push-ups.

Plyometric: This one is simple, and really works your explosive power and cardiovascular system/lungs. Get in the normal push-up position, possibly with a folded-up towel or carpet cushioning your hands and execute the push up, being sure to push yourself at least half an inch off the ground each time. Try to remain in the proper, straight and narrow push-up position as you do so.

[THAC0]

I've been working out a lot this summer and fall. The first goal was a backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon. For that I focused mostly on cardio and strengthening my quads (I have bad knees). It worked well and honestly, the Canyon was fairly easy, I even hiked the last two days without knee braces!

I now have an upcoming trip to Kodiak in the spring though which could be much more physically intensive. I've got a good handle on my cardio but am starting to work more on my core and upper body strength. I've been doing crunches, push-ups and lunges at home and have started working with dumbbells at the gym, but all I know how to do with the dumbbell is the bicep curl. Is there a good place to learn more of these things?

[Shadow of the Sun]

The Anarresti: Thanks for the advice.

Your issues with the one-arm pushups make sense, but the guide I intend on using here (http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials/tutorials/45) provides a difficult one-arm pushup that's a lot like a normal one except for the one arm off the ground- doesn't seem to put that much extra strain.

As for just jumping into the showy stuff...I've got a pretty good progressions and stuff for the static holds like the L-sit, levers, planches and the like; I've got a book by Coach Somner, who is known for having very strong athletes. Seems mostly to be pushup variations, dip variations, chins and handstand work and the like, and providing progressions that make them more difficult without having to add weight.

A planche pushup would be awesome, but I'm not gonna jump straight to that, I assure you!

[danzibr]

Question: how reasonable is it to want to do a push-up one-handed? Or maybe one-armed is a better word. This is like, one of my ultimate goals. Right now I can come kinda close.

Also, how reasonable is it for someone's who is 24 to be able to do the splits if he has never been able to do so? I wonder what I'm capable of... Actually, I used to stretch A LOT and got pretty close to being able to do the splits but was never able to.

Lastly, about how much protein should a guy who is about 160 pounds (slightly less) be eating if he wants to gain muscle? I noticed today a nutty bar has 2 grams of protein and a cup of milk has 8 grams. I started drinking more milk.

EDIT: I did indeed see the link in the post above mine. I guess the expected response is that one-armed push-ups are possible with technique and training.

[Haruki-kun]

Yes, it is reasonable to want to do one-handed push-ups. Keep working on it, and soon you'll be able to.

The splits... I'm not so sure about. I think it is possible, but it'll be very hard, especially if you're a male. Men are generally not quite as flexible as women. You mean splits like.. splitting your legs apart, right?

Protein: As a rule of thumb, about one gram per pound of bodyweight per day. So if you weight 160 lbs, then 160 grams. You'll be wanting to split that up into meals per day. So if you eat like 6 meals a day, you'll just need like 27 grams per meal.

How you approach this is up to you. Personally, I like chicken breast, eggs, protein shakes, dairy, turkey sandwiches, and such. I don't have much access to fish, but if I did I'd eat a lot of it, too. It sounds hard to meet the protein requirement, but you learn eventually that it's not that difficult. You just need to learn to pick the high protein choice when eating.

Me, I'm a college student, so a lot of the time I supplement with protein shakes and occasionally buying some milk at a gas station. Also, another excellent source of quite lean protein: Beef Jerky.

I heart beef jerky.

[Juggling Goth]

For playgrounders who, like me, are unfit and a bit doughy, if you'd like to lose some weight and build some cardiovascular endurance to allow you to play sports and such, there is the following:

C25K Running Program (http://www.c25k.com/)

It's designed to get someone who is entirely unused to running to being able to jog 3 miles without having to stop for rest or walking. I'm planning to use this to build up some cardio before moving into HIIT territory; I'd already be pretty far along if it wasn't for the fact that it is now summer in Australia and thus not very good exercising weather.


I love Couch to 5K. It's what got me and several friends running, after previously thinking that running was for Those People who were naturally gifted and whatnot. Two triathlons later...

[Liffguard]

ETA: Just realised you've already got the book and site I was gonna recommend. That'll teach me for jumping the gun.

[banjo1985]

Yay, good to see we've got a general thread. :smallbiggrin:

Have nothing to add at the moment, just wanted to thank everyone for their responses in the original thread over my joint pains whilst working out.

To answer several of the questions:

- I'm 26, so I'm just starting on the much heralded downward slope of slow degradation of my physichal body. Turning 26 is what got me to join a gym, so that I could give myself the best chance of staying fairly slim and undamaged for as long as possible. I guess I should expect some pains at thsi age really.
- I'm doing maybe 6-8 resistance based exercises, two sets of 12-15 reps each time, mainly focussed around the knees, wrists, and shoulders, plus 20-30 minutes of flexibility and cardio work. The idea is that I should build up muscles around my problem joints, so that they're better supported and won't hurt so much.
- I'm doing no free weights at all, I've been advised to keep with the machine-level stuff until I'm comfortable with the forms and posture required. Not being a sportsman of any sort, at least not for the last ten years, I'm kind of starting from the bottom.
- I can't do double crunches...like at all. I fear I have no core muscles at all. :smalltongue:

Anyhow, I've took the advice and booked a PT session at my gym, to make sure I'm doing the exercises properly. At least then I'll know whether the joint pain is my own doing or not.

[Liffguard]

- I'm doing no free weights at all, I've been advised to keep with the machine-level stuff until I'm comfortable with the forms and posture required. Not being a sportsman of any sort, at least not for the last ten years, I'm kind of starting from the bottom.

If you have joint problems I'd advise against machines. They can often put a lot of stress across joints due to the way they isolate muscles and force you into a pre-set range of movement. For example, leg extensions are one of the worst things you can do to your knees IMO. If someone came to me and asked me to destroy their kneecaps the first thing I'd do would be to shoot them there, but the second thing I'd do would be make them do leg extensions.

[Juggling Goth]

If you have joint problems I'd advise against machines. They can often put a lot of stress across joints due to the way they isolate muscles and force you into a pre-set range of movement. For example, leg extensions are one of the worst things you can do to your knees IMO. If someone came to me and asked me to destroy their kneecaps the first thing I'd do would be to shoot them there, but the second thing I'd do would be make them do leg extensions.

... That's interesting. I've been getting pain in my knees. Giving up the karate and roller derby are Not Options, but giving up the leg extensions certainly is...

Annoyingly, I was only doing them because I heard weak quadriceps compared to hamstrings could cause knee pain.

Any recommendations for something else to work my quadriceps? Both the karate and the roller derby want a lot of deep bent-knee stances, so I need stronger thighs.

[The Anarresti]

I'd recommend squats. Make sure to look up how to do them, preferably a good how-to video (I'm sure there's some out there,) but squats are an excellent lift that works pretty much your entire lower body.
To work your quads in particular, as well as balance, coordination and preventing joint pain, I'd say do lunges, starting off with no weight but moving on holding dumbbells in each hand with your arms down by your side. Make sure that at the end position your back is straight and both your knees are as close to 90 degrees as you can.

[Juggling Goth]

Groovy, thank you. I'll get the staff at the gym to show me how to do them properly.

[Erloas]

I've been doing crunches, push-ups and lunges at home and have started working with dumbbells at the gym, but all I know how to do with the dumbbell is the bicep curl. Is there a good place to learn more of these things?
You can do just about everything with dumbbells. Of course a year ago I was mostly in the same situation. I fixed that by taking classes at the gym where all the lifting they do is with dumbbells. It is almost entirely endurance lifting in the class but most things can be done with lower reps and higher weight.
The other options are books, there are lots of exercise books around. And the internet of course has just about everything. There are lots of web sites dedicated to exercising in many different capacities.

The best part about the classes is they do a lot of exercises I know I wouldn't do on my own, even now that I know how to do them. They just seem less... weird/silly? when other people are doing them as well.

If you aren't looking to build for anything really specific I would recommend many of the full body moves. But even things like bench press and flys can be done in a way that makes your core work while doing what would otherwise be a straight upper body lift.

[Liffguard]

Groovy, thank you. I'll get the staff at the gym to show me how to do them properly.

Just a heads up, the quality of training staff at a lot of gyms is - how shall I put this delicately? - extremely variable. Here's a good litmus test. When they're showing you the squat if they tell you not to go lower than 90 degrees at the joint then they don't know what they're talking about. I advise getting hold of the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe in addition to any instruction you seek out.

[Kneenibble]

Push-ups were mentioned -- thank you The Anarresti for those variants -- however I'm not clear on what exactly is the correct form for a normal pushup. Internet sources give varied answers.

[THAC0]

I'd recommend squats. Make sure to look up how to do them, preferably a good how-to video (I'm sure there's some out there,) but squats are an excellent lift that works pretty much your entire lower body.
To work your quads in particular, as well as balance, coordination and preventing joint pain, I'd say do lunges, starting off with no weight but moving on holding dumbbells in each hand with your arms down by your side. Make sure that at the end position your back is straight and both your knees are as close to 90 degrees as you can.

I have bad knees, and I was terrified of lunges for the longest time. But they are MAGIC! As long as I wasn't currently in pain, they didn't hurt at all and really really helped.

[The Anarresti]

I have bad knees, and I was terrified of lunges for the longest time. But they are MAGIC! As long as I wasn't currently in pain, they didn't hurt at all and really really helped.

Haha thanks! :smallbiggrin: Glad I could be of help.

Oh, and does anyone have ideas for what to put under the FAQs in the first post, and answers thereof? I think a common FAQ (redundancy is redundant) would be "How do I get big/jacked?"

[Haruki-kun]

Haha thanks! :smallbiggrin: Glad I could be of help.

Oh, and does anyone have ideas for what to put under the FAQs in the first post, and answers thereof? I think a common FAQ (redundancy is redundant) would be "How do I get big/jacked?"

Hmmm.... why don't you add that stuff I linked in the second post? I had some other sites and images that could help, I'll gather them up and post more stuff soon-ish.

EDIT: For actual FAQs, maybe it would be best to wait until some questions are asked frequently. :smalltongue:

[Karoht]

I'm trying to change my diet to a lower calorie intake, with less sugars as well.

Breakfast-Slimfast Shake from powder + 2% milk. Possibly with a raw egg. If not this than 2 slices toast. If not this than half a cup of baked beans on 1 slice toast.
Lunch-Wrap with cold cuts and salad greens, plus some kind of light snack to go with it.
Dinner-'teans and greens. Protein + Salad essentially. Small amount of starch to go with.

I find I'm buying more of those veggie trays as a result, and more salad greens, along with more chicken. Might have to get some beef back in there in future. I'm also trying to get lentils in there but that is hit and miss.


Since my body seems to refuse to build muscle at all (despite going to the gym 3x a week, my bench press has gone from 220 lbs to 80 lbs over a period of some 8 years, but my dead lift and muscle endurace are quite good) I'm changing over to more cardio and less strength training. I am however, trying to improve my wrist strength and grip strength, mostly with free weights.

[Haruki-kun]

From the looks of it, your body is refusing to build muscle at all, because you're barely feeding it enough to build it. You need to eat more than that, more protein. ESPECIALLY for breakfast. Drop the Slim Fast, that stuff is awful, personally I hate it on principle. Have a good healthy breakfast, some eggs, some milk, fruit, toast... don't start your day on a slimfast shake.

Increase your protein intake, include protein in every meal and spread out the meals. Have 5-6 meals a day instead of 3. You're doing well with the greens, keep those.

Do NOT quit strength training or lessen it. If you build more muscles, you'll burn more fat faster, which is what you ultimately want.

[Spiryt]

Yeah, you didn't give to much details about quantity, or your size, but on first look your diet looks like diet of kid, not enough food at all, simply.


(despite going to the gym 3x a week, my bench press has gone from 220 lbs to 80 lbs over a period of some 8 years,

Is this some typo, or did your bench press actually dropped to 40 % of what it was? :smalleek:

[Karoht]

From the looks of it, your body is refusing to build muscle at all, because you're barely feeding it enough to build it. You need to eat more than that, more protein. ESPECIALLY for breakfast. Drop the Slim Fast, that stuff is awful, personally I hate it on principle. Have a good healthy breakfast, some eggs, some milk, fruit, toast... don't start your day on a slimfast shake.

Increase your protein intake, include protein in every meal and spread out the meals. Have 5-6 meals a day instead of 3. You're doing well with the greens, keep those.

Do NOT quit strength training or lessen it. If you build more muscles, you'll burn more fat faster, which is what you ultimately want.
The diet is largely new.

@Slimfast
I do this because most mornings my body doesn't want to eat just yet. I get nausia just looking at food some times. For some reason I can choke down a shake though. I'll start adding a raw egg to it.

Daily snacking consists of nuts and dried cranberries and raisins, occasional granola bars.

More protein? Okay.

[Erloas]

One other thing to keep an eye out for is how much rest you are getting. Its not going to cover 140lbs worth of change in a lift, but it could still have some impact there.
I know when I take a couple extra days off (like over Thanksgiving, or something else coming up) I'll feel a lot better for my lifting when I start back up. I also found that when I went from 5 days a week to 3-4 each of the days feels better and it seems to have broken a plateau I was on for weight loss. While varying your workout every day does help, and working out every day is great for general health, its also going to negatively effect your peak ability in the short term.

Which is of course why any sort of physical activity, though you hear about it a lot more in running, tappers off and reduces the work they are doing before big events.

Of course I don't know how much you were doing before when you could lift a lot more. Just saying if you workout every other day and can't seem to really get over 80, if you take an extra day or two off you might be able to come back and hit 100-120.

That is of course just something to keep in mind along with what Haruki-kun and Spiryt said. Because diet does have a big impact on your progression. And keep in mind that its very difficult to both loose weight and build muscle at the same time, at least if you aren't overweight to begin with and are already exercising. Its best to focus on one of those goals at a time, maybe switching between them no more then every few months.

[Karoht]

One other thing to keep an eye out for is how much rest you are getting. Its not going to cover 140lbs worth of change in a lift, but it could still have some impact there.
I know when I take a couple extra days off (like over Thanksgiving, or something else coming up) I'll feel a lot better for my lifting when I start back up. I also found that when I went from 5 days a week to 3-4 each of the days feels better and it seems to have broken a plateau I was on for weight loss. While varying your workout every day does help, and working out every day is great for general health, its also going to negatively effect your peak ability in the short term.

Which is of course why any sort of physical activity, though you hear about it a lot more in running, tappers off and reduces the work they are doing before big events.

Of course I don't know how much you were doing before when you could lift a lot more. Just saying if you workout every other day and can't seem to really get over 80, if you take an extra day or two off you might be able to come back and hit 100-120.

That is of course just something to keep in mind along with what Haruki-kun and Spiryt said. Because diet does have a big impact on your progression. And keep in mind that its very difficult to both loose weight and build muscle at the same time, at least if you aren't overweight to begin with and are already exercising. Its best to focus on one of those goals at a time, maybe switching between them no more then every few months.Hmmm.

I'm overweight as far as I know (5'7" and I weigh 190 lbs) but I'm not unfit. I do martial arts (particularly medieval sword combat, in about 30 lbs of armor), I can jog for a solid 20 minutes. My goal is actually to increase strength, but nothing happens. I've done varied workouts, I've added flexibility with things like Yoga (and I was a firm believer in proper stretching before that), my muscles just don't seem to improve. I'll try cutting back to 2 days and see what happens.

[Erloas]

I wasn't actually that far from that myself. When I started 5 years ago I was up to almost 210 and I'm about 5'-8" 5'-9" and I was also doing armors combat, SCA specifically. I think when I was doing SCA heavily I was about 180-190 and I had more endurance then many other people out there fighting... or at very least more excitement for it so I was staying out there longer, its hard to tell at times.
For the most part I didn't really feel like I was out of shape, it wasn't until I got into shape that I realized how much I wasn't before.

For reference right now I'm 150-152 and still very slowly inching down (and still the same height). And as I mentioned (at some point, maybe the previous thread) I've now ran a half-marathon, which was about 2 1/2 hours and I regularly work out 2 hours a night (on the days I work out) though half of that is usually a less strenuous class suck as yoga or pilates (not that they are easy, but they take a lot less energy then lifting or running)

And what I have found is that about 1.5 hours seems to be the jumping point in endurance. Doing anything for an hour was easy, but stretching it to two hours really made things difficult. Its generally the point where "normal" energy reserves pretty much run out and your body has to really start converting energy from fat and other places. It takes quite a bit more training to work up that energy level where you can still keep up a decent amount of effort after your normal food energy has been depleted. There area lot of technical terms used for those various body functions, but thats the general idea.

As it is now I do a lot of endurance lifting but not much for strength. I was actually kind of surprised when I went in last to lift heavy and my numbers hadn't greatly changed since when I started this last big exercise push in April. I'm getting ready to really push some strength training, I just haven't yet because I don't want to give up my classes for it. But straight strength is generally not that important in most things you do, fighting especially.

As for rest... you should be able to get an idea of how warn down you are just by taking a couple extra days off and then when you go in you will probably feel different. Of course just a noticeable change in your current routine might be enough to break out of any rut you may be in. Running was what got me out of the rut I was in about 4 months ago.

[Kneenibble]

I do many pushups, eaisly doing 20 in a row, and I've never used one-armed push ups. If you're looking for advanced push-ups, I'd say star, plyometric or tricep-ball.

Star: To do a star push-up, place your hands so that the tips of the thumbs and forefingers are touching, making a triangle directly beneath your sternum. Then, do the push-up. This will be much harder, as it puts the strain on your naturally weaker muscles.

Tricep-ball: Tricep-ball is really hard, I used to be absolutely unable to do one, when I was able to do 15 perfect normal push-ups in a row. Take any ball the rough size of a soccer ball and grip it in both hands, on hand on either side. Place the ball directly beneath your sternum, and execute a push-up. This is like a star, only it also works your core and your balance capabilities.

Lesser Tricep-ball: For a less impossible push-up that still pushes your capabilities, put your hands in the normal position but put a soccer ball (or similarly sized sphere) beneath one of your hands. Execute the push-up, being sure to keep yourself level and no tip over to the side. Switch the ball from each hand every five to ten push-ups.

Plyometric: This one is simple, and really works your explosive power and cardiovascular system/lungs. Get in the normal push-up position, possibly with a folded-up towel or carpet cushioning your hands and execute the push up, being sure to push yourself at least half an inch off the ground each time. Try to remain in the proper, straight and narrow push-up position as you do so.

My question didn't get any reply, so let me repose it more directly:

Thank you for these push-up variants, but I wonder if you (or anybody) could please talk more about the proper alignment for an ordinary push-up? I see so many different versions online I'm not sure what to believe.

[Haruki-kun]

Here. Scooby might be able to help. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S990kHLMVFg)

[Erloas]

My question didn't get any reply, so let me repose it more directly:

Thank you for these push-up variants, but I wonder if you (or anybody) could please talk more about the proper alignment for an ordinary push-up? I see so many different versions online I'm not sure what to believe.

Well I think part of the problem is that there isn't necessarily a "standard" push-up. As all of the variations have the same benefit of working your whole body, core especially, and they all work your arms/chest, just in different ways.
Having your arms out wider then your shoulders with your elbows going away from the body is the more traditional method, as it focuses the most on the chest and back. Whereas with your arms directly under your shoulders and your elbows staying close to the body focuses more on the triceps then on the chest.

What you will probably find is that if you do a lot of the variations its going to be your core that gets tired before anything else, which you can tell by having your hips/butt dropping or pushing up and getting away from the flat plank.

[Haruki-kun]

Well, I might as well bring this up in this thread. Allow me to introduce you guys to Fitocracy.

Here's the link. (http://www.fitocracy.com/)

Roughly, Fitocracy is a website that allows you to track your workouts. But that's not the cool thing about it. The cool thing about it is that it is for us nerds and geeks. :smalltongue: When you track your workouts in Fitocracy, it gives you Experience Points, which you collect in order to level up. To make it more interesting, it also has achievements and quests (and there's titles, too, but you need a paid account for that, which I don't have).

[Cristo Meyers]

So I started working out in earnest about 8 or so weeks ago: diet, exercise, the lot. It's done some good, I'm down to about 165-168 depending on which scale in the house you ask, so about 13 pounds. But, what I've been using has gotten really old and I need to change things up.

There's a gym at work that I'm investigating, so what I'm looking for is what kind of exercises I can do to maintain the current lost weight and maybe shave another 5 pounds off. I've had pretty good luck with treadmills and the like, but I'd like some other ideas to keep things from getting stale.

I figure I'll have about 45 minutes to an hour to work out during the day.

[THAC0]

Well, I might as well bring this up in this thread. Allow me to introduce you guys to Fitocracy.

Here's the link. (http://www.fitocracy.com/)

Roughly, Fitocracy is a website that allows you to track your workouts. But that's not the cool thing about it. The cool thing about it is that it is for us nerds and geeks. :smalltongue: When you track your workouts in Fitocracy, it gives you Experience Points, which you collect in order to level up. To make it more interesting, it also has achievements and quests (and there's titles, too, but you need a paid account for that, which I don't have).

I love fitocracy! It's been a real help motivating me to keep going!

[Erloas]

There's a gym at work that I'm investigating, so what I'm looking for is what kind of exercises I can do to maintain the current lost weight and maybe shave another 5 pounds off. I've had pretty good luck with treadmills and the like, but I'd like some other ideas to keep things from getting stale.

I figure I'll have about 45 minutes to an hour to work out during the day.
Almost anything will work to maintain weight.
If you are just doing cardio then weight lifting will help a lot. And anything in the endurance range of lifting will help keep you lean without building muscle, but even straight muscle building will help you loose fat. Though you might not necessarily loose total weight, you'll still be a lot better off.

There isn't a big difference between the various cardio machines they generally have in gyms, at least in terms of weight loss, though things like stair machines generally take more effort in shorter periods of time then many of the others, but thats at a relatively similar speed and effort.

For lifting it depends what you have access too. Generally they say free weights are better overall then the machines but the machines tend to be a bit more targeted and an easier place for many new people to start.

In lifting it seems like lunges and squats are very often overlooked. And you can never do too much core work. And core is a lot more then just sit-ups and crunches.

And really the question is almost too vague to give specifics. There are so many possible things you could be doing that its not really possible to name them all.

[Cristo Meyers]

Almost anything will work to maintain weight.
If you are just doing cardio then weight lifting will help a lot. And anything in the endurance range of lifting will help keep you lean without building muscle, but even straight muscle building will help you loose fat. Though you might not necessarily loose total weight, you'll still be a lot better off.

There isn't a big difference between the various cardio machines they generally have in gyms, at least in terms of weight loss, though things like stair machines generally take more effort in shorter periods of time then many of the others, but thats at a relatively similar speed and effort.

For lifting it depends what you have access too. Generally they say free weights are better overall then the machines but the machines tend to be a bit more targeted and an easier place for many new people to start.

In lifting it seems like lunges and squats are very often overlooked. And you can never do too much core work. And core is a lot more then just sit-ups and crunches.

And really the question is almost too vague to give specifics. There are so many possible things you could be doing that its not really possible to name them all.

Heh, I'm not entirely sure where to start myself...I'll try and give more specifics.

My target area is pretty much just my upper half, abs and chest mostly, since that's where most of the weight was.

Assuming the gym has free weights (and I see little reason why they wouldn't), what kind of lifts would work best? I've a passing familiarity with things like bicep curls and bench presses, but not much else.

I know that for endurance it's low weight/high reps. How should I go about finding out what amount of weight to use? Or is it pretty much just trial and error?


Well, I might as well bring this up in this thread. Allow me to introduce you guys to Fitocracy.

Here's the link.


Do you have to have a Facebook account to use it? All I'm getting is a "Request an Invite" thing?

[Haruki-kun]

Do you have to have a Facebook account to use it? All I'm getting is a "Request an Invite" thing?

That's odd. :smallconfused: You didn't need it when I signed up... well, I might be able to invite you. PM me an e-mail address if you're interested.

EDIT: We can set up a GITP group! :smallbiggrin:

[THAC0]

You don't need facebook but you do need an invite from someone.

[Cristo Meyers]

That's odd. :smallconfused: You didn't need it when I signed up... well, I might be able to invite you. PM me an e-mail address if you're interested.

EDIT: We can set up a GITP group! :smallbiggrin:

Sounds like a plan to me. :smallbiggrin:

[Haruki-kun]

You don't need facebook but you do need an invite from someone.

I never got an invite from anyone.... I think it may have been open at some point for a while.

EDIT: What's this? A GITP group for Fitocracy? It's more likely than you think! (http://www.fitocracy.com/group/4138/)

[Kneenibble]

Here. Scooby might be able to help. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S990kHLMVFg)


Well I think part of the problem is that there isn't necessarily a "standard" push-up. As all of the variations have the same benefit of working your whole body, core especially, and they all work your arms/chest, just in different ways.
Having your arms out wider then your shoulders with your elbows going away from the body is the more traditional method, as it focuses the most on the chest and back. Whereas with your arms directly under your shoulders and your elbows staying close to the body focuses more on the triceps then on the chest.

What you will probably find is that if you do a lot of the variations its going to be your core that gets tired before anything else, which you can tell by having your hips/butt dropping or pushing up and getting away from the flat plank.

Thanks guys, this is the kind of info I wanted.

[Erloas]

My target area is pretty much just my upper half, abs and chest mostly, since that's where most of the weight was.

Assuming the gym has free weights (and I see little reason why they wouldn't), what kind of lifts would work best? I've a passing familiarity with things like bicep curls and bench presses, but not much else.

I know that for endurance it's low weight/high reps. How should I go about finding out what amount of weight to use? Or is it pretty much just trial and error?

Well if you are mostly looking at loosing weight target everything, because you'll loose fat where its at regardless of what muscles you are using.
Its also always good to get your legs doing something because the quad is the biggest muscle and it will burn more energy just thanks to its size.

As far as weight goes, you'll have to just figure that out. For reference in the endurance lifting classes I'm taking they don't have any weight over 15lbs. I started out using 5/8/10s and it took me about 6 months to get to 8/12/15s. I could probably do a bit more on a couple of the lifts, but that at least gives you some ideas. Even 5lbs is a lot on some of those lifts if when you are doing a lot of counts.
The other thing I've found from the classes is that speed makes a big difference, and the slower you go the better, the harder it makes it. A really slow controlled lift, or just holding a position for a while, can be a real challenge.

A search for fully body movement lifts should give you some ideas. Even just doing something like a normal curl while in a lunge position can challenge the majority of the body at once. A bench press on a ball instead of a bench will challenge your core. Can't think of the name but another where you lift one handed from the outside of one foot then up and across the body. I just don't know the names of many of the lifts.

[THAC0]

I never got an invite from anyone.... I think it may have been open at some point for a while.

EDIT: What's this? A GITP group for Fitocracy? It's more likely than you think! (http://www.fitocracy.com/group/4138/)

Weird, I got an invite, and it says I have ten invites left to give out... dunno what the point of invites is then!

[Haruki-kun]

Weird, I got an invite, and it says I have ten invites left to give out... dunno what the point of invites is then!

I don't either... I don't recall ever having gotten an invite. But yeah, I got 9 invites left, too. Oh, well.

EDIT: So... ask me and I might share them. :smalltongue: Bear in mind I only have 9, though, so only ask if you think you're really gonna use it.

[Liffguard]

Heh, I'm not entirely sure where to start myself...I'll try and give more specifics.

My target area is pretty much just my upper half, abs and chest mostly, since that's where most of the weight was.

Spot reduction doesn't work. Basically, you can't shift fat from a particular area by working that area. Your body will lose fat from all over, at different rates from different areas, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Better to simply focus on losing fat generally.


Assuming the gym has free weights (and I see little reason why they wouldn't), what kind of lifts would work best? I've a passing familiarity with things like bicep curls and bench presses, but not much else.

I know that for endurance it's low weight/high reps. How should I go about finding out what amount of weight to use? Or is it pretty much just trial and error?

IMO the best lifts are definitely the big compound lifts i.e. squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, barbell row. The olympic lifts are also bloody good but that's getting a bit complicated and it's worth getting a bit of experience before you start learning them.

The amount of weight you want to use depends on how many reps you're doing per set. If you can comfortably do all the reps, your weight is too light. If you're consistently failing to do all the reps, it's too heavy. If you can only just manage all the reps, or you fail the final rep every now and again, then that's about the right weight.

I will say that if your goal is to lose bodyfat then you should consider lifting heavier weights for lower reps. This will build more muscle, and greater muscle-mass will increase your metabolism thus causing you to burn more calories even when you're just sitting around. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, strength work also increases your muscular endurance but endurance work doesn't increase your strength (at least not to anywhere near the same degree).

[Erloas]

I will say that if your goal is to lose bodyfat then you should consider lifting heavier weights for lower reps. This will build more muscle, and greater muscle-mass will increase your metabolism thus causing you to burn more calories even when you're just sitting around. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, strength work also increases your muscular endurance but endurance work doesn't increase your strength (at least not to anywhere near the same degree).
Strength lifting does increase endurance, but it doesn't necessarily do it all that much. I know in the classes I take every once in a while we'll have someone that lifts regularly come in, they look strong, but they still struggle to finish the exercises with the same size weight I'm using even though in straight lifting I'm sure they could do a lot more then me.
Of course part of that is simply that many of the endurance lifts stress the smaller support muscles a lot more, and many people that lift to look buff go out of their way to isolate the big muscles and end up not having well balanced muscle strength.


Kettle ball exercises are supposed to be really good full body exercises. They are all about functional, full body, sorts of movements. I haven't actually done them myself, but I've heard they are good, especially if you are buying the equipment because its only one or two weights needed.

[Tyndmyr]

Also, how reasonable is it for someone's who is 24 to be able to do the splits if he has never been able to do so? I wonder what I'm capable of... Actually, I used to stretch A LOT and got pretty close to being able to do the splits but was never able to.

It's doable, but it'll take some work. Don't rush it, or try to stretch as much as you used to if you've been away from it for a while. Once you get back into it a bit, there's a few tricks like stretching, relaxing, and stretching again to get a slightly further stretch, but really, stretching is fairly easy to do as long as you use good form and don't rush it.


I'm trying to change my diet to a lower calorie intake, with less sugars as well.

Breakfast-Slimfast Shake from powder + 2% milk. Possibly with a raw egg. If not this than 2 slices toast. If not this than half a cup of baked beans on 1 slice toast.
Lunch-Wrap with cold cuts and salad greens, plus some kind of light snack to go with it.
Dinner-'teans and greens. Protein + Salad essentially. Small amount of starch to go with.

I find I'm buying more of those veggie trays as a result, and more salad greens, along with more chicken. Might have to get some beef back in there in future. I'm also trying to get lentils in there but that is hit and miss.

This looks like a weight loss diet. Run the calorie numbers on it vs what you need to maintain. Nothing wrong with a weight loss diet per se(so long as you're getting adequate nutrition...consider multivitamins), but they're generally suboptimal for muscle gain. Sure, you should keep working out while dieting to minimize loss of lean body tissue, but you're unlikely to make big gains in both areas at the same time.

An 80 lb bench is a bit low, I'd probably take some time to focus on muscle building...you're going to want to make sure you're maxing protein intake(distributed nicely over the day), have solid nutrition(multivitamins is a good way to ensure this, but avoid eating too much garbage), and have enough extra calorie intake to support the muscle building.

[Cristo Meyers]

Spot reduction doesn't work. Basically, you can't shift fat from a particular area by working that area. Your body will lose fat from all over, at different rates from different areas, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Better to simply focus on losing fat generally.


Ah, I should've been more specific. My abs and chest are the areas that I want to tone up. The body fat from those areas has already come off, especially from my stomach. Dunno if that makes a difference.

I've looked in at the gym at work, it's pretty much fully equipped: free weights, treadmills and other cardio machines, some weight machines. I tend to prefer free weights to machines. So here's another question: since I'm only going to have at best an hour a day should I focus on cardio one day and then weights on another or try and mix the two every day? My instinct is telling me to alternate days...

[Haruki-kun]

Alternate days, definitely. Also, build up the rest of your body as well, especially legs and back. Some people try to just focus on what they want (which is generally chest and arms), but there's several reasons why you would want to build up your legs and back. One of the main ones is that by working out your legs, your body will increase testosterone production, which will in turn help you build more muscle.

[Cristo Meyers]

Alternate days, definitely. Also, build up the rest of your body as well, especially legs and back. Some people try to just focus on what they want (which is generally chest and arms), but there's several reasons why you would want to build up your legs and back. One of the main ones is that by working out your legs, your body will increase testosterone production, which will in turn help you build more muscle.

Oh, I know. The main reason I'm focusing on arms and chest right now is because my legs pretty much benefitted the most from the routines I was doing. I've got no intention of letting them slack off now.

[Juggling Goth]

I'd recommend squats. Make sure to look up how to do them, preferably a good how-to video (I'm sure there's some out there,) but squats are an excellent lift that works pretty much your entire lower body.
To work your quads in particular, as well as balance, coordination and preventing joint pain, I'd say do lunges, starting off with no weight but moving on holding dumbbells in each hand with your arms down by your side. Make sure that at the end position your back is straight and both your knees are as close to 90 degrees as you can.

Stayed off the leg extensions and leg press completely yesterday in favour of lunges and these hideous straddle-leg-stance squats my Sensei really likes. And my quads ache more and my knees ache less. Yay!

[Cristo Meyers]

Ah...it's official, I'm a member of the gym at work.

It's nice to be out from under the "hour and a half every day after work" routine that I had going :smallsigh:...much more free time this way.

[Haruki-kun]

Something to share today.

3 years ago, I started working out. I did some machines and slight cardio. The first time the instructors at the gym gave me a routine that included Squats I was horrified. When they showed me that they were BARBELL SQUATZ I was even more horrified. Thinking "How can a wimpy kid like me lift that? :smalleek:" But I did them anyway. Was probably squatting like 40 Kgs. back then. Thing was in KG, so... I guess about 80 lbs.

Today, it's three years later and I just did for the first time ever a 300 lb. Squat. 300 Lbs! ~140 Kg! I never thought I'd be able to do something like that! :smallbiggrin:

[THAC0]

Any ideas on good exercises when you're in a hotel room with a small set of light weights? I've got about a month before I have gym access again (cross country move) but I don't want to fall behind!

Right now I'm doing jumping jacks to get my heart rate up, then various crunches, push ups, lunges and dumbbell curls.

[Haruki-kun]

Any ideas on good exercises when you're in a hotel room with a small set of light weights? I've got about a month before I have gym access again (cross country move) but I don't want to fall behind!

Right now I'm doing jumping jacks to get my heart rate up, then various crunches, push ups, lunges and dumbbell curls.

Is there a park nearby or something? Somewhere you can do pull-ups/chin-ups? If so, that'd help a lot.

[THAC0]

Is there a park nearby or something? Somewhere you can do pull-ups/chin-ups? If so, that'd help a lot.

Different place every night after eight to ten hours of driving!

[Haruki-kun]

Ah. On the move. Keep doing all those things you're doing and try to go to a park if possible, so you can do chin-ups or pull-ups. And of course, check to see if each place doesn't have a fitness center.

[Erloas]

http://www.building-muscle101.com/dumbbell-workout-routine.html
Here are some. I know some of these are ones I do... some might not gain you a whole lot if you only have really light weights, but even 8-10lbs should be enough to at least maintain and tone.

And if the weights are light then do more reps, and more importantly, do the reps really slowly and hold some positions. Even a light weight can be a real challenge to hold out for long periods of time.

[Dienekes]

Ok folks. I was really an active athlete in high school, a bit pudgy even then but I made up for it by being strong and having a great endurance despite it.

However once I hit college I sort of let all that go, a lot, yet I never changed my eating habits. And for the last 3 years especially have been a complete couch potato and it shows. I think I've gained something like 45 pounds, and that's just total weight not including the muscle mass I must have lost. So obviously it's time for a change.

I'm curious if any of you could give me some exercise tips (I have dietary pretty much covered, and believe me changes need to be made there too), but they have to be performed at home with very limited equipment, as I've looked into joining a gym and it is not financially reasonable currently. Any advise at all would be appreciated.

[bluewind95]

Is there anything a person with fibromyalgia, a LOT of joint pain and dysautonomia can do to get fit? :smallfrown:

[Erloas]

Is there anything a person with fibromyalgia, a LOT of joint pain and dysautonomia can do to get fit? :smallfrown:

If I'm remembering correctly one of the women that comes to the classes at the gym has fibromyalgia. Not sure what dysautonomia is. Joint pain is pretty common for most people that don't work out and then start, however I don't know how it compares in terms of intensity, but I do know the best way to reduce joint pain is to exercise and strengthen the muscles that control the joints.

I would *guess* that most low impact exercises would probably be ok and low weight high rep or resistance band training would be too. And I know a lot of water based exercises are done because it is low impact. But what you really need to do is get a hold of your doctor that knows a lot more about your conditions and see what they recommend.
Depending how bad things are, you might see a physical therapist, especially to get started. As they should know a lot about that sort of thing (even more then a doctor depending on the situation and how general vs specialized the doctor is).

[Haruki-kun]

Is there anything a person with fibromyalgia, a LOT of joint pain and dysautonomia can do to get fit? :smallfrown:

For something like that, I'd go ask your doctor. I really don't want to recommend something that might get you injured. Not to mention it'd probably be Medical Advice.

[Tyndmyr]

For something like that, I'd go ask your doctor. I really don't want to recommend something that might get you injured. Not to mention it'd probably be Medical Advice.

This. I suspect the answer is yes, but there's probably a fair number of caveats to certain exercises. They're gonna know a lot better than I will.

As a stop gap until you see your doctor, I would recommend tending towards activities that are not painful or at least less painful. Pain's a useful warning sign, and if you certainly don't want to overlook a possible injury or dangerous practice because its mistaken for normal joint pain.

[Erloas]

I'm curious if any of you could give me some exercise tips (I have dietary pretty much covered, and believe me changes need to be made there too), but they have to be performed at home with very limited equipment, as I've looked into joining a gym and it is not financially reasonable currently. Any advise at all would be appreciated.
There are a lot of things. Running is relatively inexpensive; its not free, as you'll need some good running shoes and decent clothing to do any real training comfortably. Though depending where you live it could be really hard to get started this time of year, it can be done but the mental challenge will be very difficult to overcome when the temperatures are cold.

The Kettleball routines I've heard a lot of good things about, though I haven't actually done any myself. I don't think they cost more then $15-25.
Quite a bit can be done with resistance bands too, which are also really cheap. And 2-3 sets of light dumbbells in the 5/8/12/15 range isn't going to be enough to build big muscles but it will be more then enough to loose weight, and get toned. I haven't priced them but they can't be too much.
And you don't need all of those, they are for the most part almost redundant, 3 different ways of doing much the same things.
A mat and/or ball for core exercises can give you a lot more options too and something I would recommend but don't think its really necessary. And all of this is equipment that even Walmart carries and none of it is expensive or takes up a lot of room (well the ball kind of takes up room).

What you should probably do first is check out some of the exercise routines with those various pieces of equipment and see which ones you think you'll actually do and go from there.

[Juggling Goth]

If I'm remembering correctly one of the women that comes to the classes at the gym has fibromyalgia. Not sure what dysautonomia is. Joint pain is pretty common for most people that don't work out and then start, however I don't know how it compares in terms of intensity, but I do know the best way to reduce joint pain is to exercise and strengthen the muscles that control the joints.

Looked up dysautonomia - looks like an umbrella term that covers a lot of badly understood heartbeat and blood-pressure badness. I hope I'm understanding that correctly. Seconding-thirding-fourthing-fifthing recommendations to talk to your health care professional. I would guess that you'd want to avoid things that would drastically alter your heart rate, or that could involve falling off things or dropping things on yourself if you had a dizzy spell.

That combined with joint pain makes me think of pilates, sticking to exercises that mostly involve being on the floor. And going very gently.

[Cristo Meyers]

So I make especially sure that I've got everything packed away the night before for the gym today, don't want to forget anything...and then I realize that I didn't bring a comb...I look like I stuck my finger in a light socket.

Just did some light cardio stuff today to get the run of the machines available, I'll work out a better routine tomorrow. What kind of weight-lifting exercises would be best for a relative beginner?



That combined with joint pain makes me think of pilates, sticking to exercises that mostly involve being on the floor. And going very gently.

Maybe some yoga?

[Eakin]

Any ideas on good exercises when you're in a hotel room with a small set of light weights? I've got about a month before I have gym access again (cross country move) but I don't want to fall behind!

Right now I'm doing jumping jacks to get my heart rate up, then various crunches, push ups, lunges and dumbbell curls.

You could invest in something like these water filled travel dumb bells (http://www.amazon.com/Aquabells-Travel-Filled-Exercise-Dumbells/dp/B000AQK20M)

I find the toughest muscles to work without equipment are the back muscles like lats, since you really need a pulling motion rather than pushing motions (like push ups, natch)

Plenty of good ab routines you can do, though (http://randomabs.com/)

[Haruki-kun]

I find the toughest muscles to work without equipment are the back muscles like lats, since you really need a pulling motion rather than pushing motions (like push ups, natch)

Totally true. Pull-ups and chin-ups are pretty much the only way to go with those if you can only do bodyweight exercises.

[Ceric]

I do martial arts (see avatar :smalltongue:) and some of my fellow athletes train with weights on their ankles, anime-style, for jump kicks and the like. Does that actually work? I really thought it was just in anime.

[Dienekes]

Thank you kindly Erlos.


I do martial arts (see avatar :smalltongue:) and some of my fellow athletes train with weights on their ankles, anime-style, for jump kicks and the like. Does that actually work? I really thought it was just in anime.

As far as I remember, it's generally not advisable to put weight on joints like your ankles as it can put strain on the ligaments. However the theory of adding resistance to strengthen different muscles is the core idea for improving. For instance in swimming we used half-flippers to add weight to your legs so you can strengthen them for kicking.

But don't put weights on too long as that can be actually harmful.

[Iruka]

Joining Fitocracy really helped with motivation.
Finally went to the swimming pool again and did some sets of crunches. :smallbiggrin:

[Erloas]

Joining Fitocracy really helped with motivation.
Finally went to the swimming pool again and did some sets of crunches. :smallbiggrin:
Crunches seem like an odd thing to do in a swimming pool. Very challenging if it isn't a really shallow part of the pool.:smalltongue:

Getting started and keeping the motivation to go really is the hardest part.

[Warlawk]

I have a question for the fitness gurus here.

As I understand things, simply having more muscle mass means you will burn more calories in day to day life. The process of building muscle mass has three basic components. 1) lift heavy enough to cause a little bit of tearing in your muscles so they will overcompensate when they heal and generate more mass. 2) Have sufficient protein intake/general dietary quality to support muscle growth. 3) Get sufficient rest and allow for healing time.

Now, my question on this front has to do with rest/downtime. At the moment I bench 200 when I push heavy. So to build mass I would want to do my sets 3 days a week to allow rest and healing time between them. Now on off days am I going to be sabotaging my results if I do a light lift with high reps? Say I lift 110-120 on the bar in sets of 20, is that going to inhibit the rest/healing cycle? Do I need to completely take the day off from lifting or will muscle growth still occur at a (mostly) normal rate if I'm lifting light on my off days?

[Erloas]

As I understand things, simply having more muscle mass means you will burn more calories in day to day life.

Proper weight training will build muscle. Muscle is your metabolic furnace that will burn additional calories 24 hours a day. If you were to add, say, 10 pounds of muscle in the next year, your body might burn an additional 350 - 500 calories daily.
Although conventional wisdom has long stated that a pound of muscle will burn, on average, 30 to 50 calories per day, one recent piece of research says this is incorrect and that a pound of muscle burns about 6 calories a day...a lot less than what many of us thought, but still more than a pound of fat, which burns only 2 calories in a day.
From my personal experience though I can say that 6 calories seems off. When I gain 10lbs of muscle, an increase of 60 calories in my diet would not keep me gaining. I've found that my perfect mark to keep gaining but not get fat is 12-15 calories per pound of muscle.
Its one of those things that gets said a lot, and a few times in this thread. While its true, its not exactly big numbers. A lot of other things I've read (quoted just being the first quick result I found on it) say things like if you gain 1lb of muscle and change absolutely nothing else you'll loose 1-2 lbs over the course of a year. It helps, but it is not a substitute for specifically calorie burning/fat loss exercises.
And with 3500 calories in 1lb of fat, burning an extra 100 calories a day would be an extra pound a month, not bad but by no means a fast way to take weight off, and 10lbs is a lot of muscle to build.

I know thats not what you asked, but it was something I had planned on posting earlier but kept forgetting.


Now, my question on this front has to do with rest/downtime. At the moment I bench 200 when I push heavy. So to build mass I would want to do my sets 3 days a week to allow rest and healing time between them. Now on off days am I going to be sabotaging my results if I do a light lift with high reps? Say I lift 110-120 on the bar in sets of 20, is that going to inhibit the rest/healing cycle? Do I need to completely take the day off from lifting or will muscle growth still occur at a (mostly) normal rate if I'm lifting light on my off days?
It sort of depends. You can generally do light exercises (or ones focusing on completely different muscles) on rest days without much issue. However doing light weights in really high reps is going to break down your muscles as well, just not quite the same as heavy lifting. If you are lifting something really light, where its more just getting blood flowing and stretching the muscles thats probably going to beneficial to keep you from getting sore.

I think core is generally the only muscle group most places say you can work daily. Core however almost always ends up being body weight types of exercise and I don't think get broke down the same way as you would see with heavy lifting.


For what its worth though, many of the instructors at my gym (and I'm sure many others) work every day doing the same classes. While they seem to do fine doing each of them every day, I don't really see much weight progress from any of them, they all seem to be lifting the same as when I started 10 months ago. Whether that is from fatigue, or trying to avoid fatigue, or simply not feeling like they want to move up, I couldn't say.

Most people that lift every day have very specific routines that they do, working some specific muscles one day and resting them the next while working a different set on the day between.
And one day of lifting followed by one day of cardio and/or stretching seems to be the most common.

edit: And your body can tell you a lot. Start with the lifting you want to do and after a couple weeks of that add something in on your rest days and see how you feel after a week. You should be able to tell fairly quickly how much of an impact its having on you.

[Haruki-kun]

This whole thing is not really an exact science. You'll see a lot of people with varying opinions on it.

My personal approach is: Each body part gets hit once a week. You can do twice, maybe. But I think anything past that is just overworking it. Therefore, I don't recommend doing such work on off-days. If you're gonna work out on off days, make it cardio.

[Warlawk]

Thanks for the responses guys. Gives me things to think about at least.

To share with the thread. I would recommend something specific to drink for recovery after working out. ***NOT INTENDED AS MEDICAL ADVICE, PURELY ANECDOTAL***.
Get your favorite cup, the right size to hold enough liquid for your post workout drink. Fill it about 2/3 with chocolate milk, add two ice cubes and a scoop of chocolate flavored whey protein. Blend that sucker smooth.

Seemed odd to me to drink chocolate milk after working out, but there have been some studies on it (google it if you're curious) and it works well. I've had fantastic results drinking this after every workout. It gets you the things you need immediately (usually it's tough to cook/eat a big chunk of chicken breast in that tight little 30 minute window after your workout) and has the added benefit of being tasty and sweet to help satisfy my sweet tooth and keep me from craving things I shouldn't be eating. I have less issues with sore muscles and general tiredness since I switched from chugging water to this.


Getting started and keeping the motivation to go really is the hardest part.

Posting a few pics I've collected for motivation.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1322010156359.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1320620746258.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1320619738191.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1308544728165.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1308544501994.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1308543605497.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Warlawk/Motivation/1308539616332.jpg

[Iruka]

Crunches seem like an odd thing to do in a swimming pool. Very challenging if it isn't a really shallow part of the pool.:smalltongue:


They are very effective because you have to work against the water resistance. :smalltongue:

[dgnslyr]

So, after a sudden moment of self-consciousness, I've decided I need to exercise more. While I may or may not forget about it in two weeks, I want to get something done before I forget. I've found some dumbbells lying around, so I thought I could use them. But now that they're lying near my desk, what do I do with them? Specifically, how do I use dumbbells? The cartoon image of using dumbbells is always just lifting it with one arm, but I seem to vaguely recall there's other ways of using free weights as well.

[Spiryt]

There's a thread about exercise a few threads down at the first page right, now.

Anyway, Net is full of this stuff, just read and choose.

http://www.dumbbell-exercises.com/

[Shadow of the Sun]

So.

Today, to strike out against my lack of fitness, I just went for a nice, long, walk.

I WAS going to go for a jog, but it's 28 degrees and 55% humidity and, as a beginner, I didn't think it would be sensible to start Couch to 5K at such temperatures.

I think I'll go for long walks, with a lot of hills, for two weeks, 3 times a week, and then try starting on the C25K. If I don't go because of the temperature, I'm gonna be stuck at home, useless, for another two months.

[Juggling Goth]

Maybe some yoga?

I'm not an expert on yoga or pilates, and this isn't intended as medical advice. In my experience only, yoga isn't that good for joint pain, because I'm tempted to go for maximum stretch/flexibility, and so let my momentum and body weight pull my joints around. This may just be my lack of form or self-discipline. With something like cobra or upward-facing dog, for instance, I find it really easy to let my lower back sag/arch as much as possible, and OW. It just teaches me bad habits of hanging out in my joints, which since I'm already both heavy and flexible, I really need to get rid of.

With pilates, on the other hand, I find the emphasis on the quality and control of the movement stops me doing that. When I'm focusing on engaging the muscles to protect the joints, and just moving one body part in a very controlled way without moving any of the others to compensate, I'm much less likely to accidentally hurt myself. Again, this is just in my experience, and ideally the OP should consult both medical professionals and experienced instructors.

I would also be nervous of the more upside-down bits of yoga if I had dizziness or blood-pressure issues, but again, actual medical professionals should be asked about that.

[Zimfan]

Hello, frequent lurker and infrequent poster here.

I find this thread very interesting as I've just started working to get into better shape recently. For the last month or so I've been running and doing some strength training. I've had a goal per week for each (4 days for the former, 3 for the latter) but no real good routine and as a result I've had a couple weeks where I kept putting one or the other off and fell short.

I need to get a scheduled routine set but there's something I'm not sure about. As far as weight training and running is there any reason not to do them on the same day? Say for example, running Monday through Thursday and weight training Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?

[Hannes]

So.

Today, to strike out against my lack of fitness, I just went for a nice, long, walk.

I WAS going to go for a jog, but it's 28 degrees and 55% humidity and, as a beginner, I didn't think it would be sensible to start Couch to 5K at such temperatures.

I think I'll go for long walks, with a lot of hills, for two weeks, 3 times a week, and then try starting on the C25K. If I don't go because of the temperature, I'm gonna be stuck at home, useless, for another two months.

I just did my first C25K run today! It's 84% humidity and 33 degrees. I have to say though that I bike around a lot during warmer seasons so I might be in better shape, but honestly, I don't think the first runs are that hard. I only broke a light sweat, equal to maybe warmup during the trainings I've participated in (LARP swordfighting, kendo)

[Shadow of the Sun]

Haha, yeah, probably not.

That said, I've gotta deal with my mum harping on. "IT'S TOO HOT TO GO RUNNING DON'T YOU THINK YOU SHOULD START WITH WALKING FIRST" and the like.

[Hannes]

Haha, yeah, probably not.

That said, I've gotta deal with my mum harping on. "IT'S TOO HOT TO GO RUNNING DON'T YOU THINK YOU SHOULD START WITH WALKING FIRST" and the like.

Oh whoops, I thought you were talking about degrees F, so I converted my temperature. It's 1 C here. And well, during the first runs, you ARE walking most of the time.

[Erloas]

I WAS going to go for a jog, but it's 28 degrees and 55% humidity and, as a beginner, I didn't think it would be sensible to start Couch to 5K at such temperatures.
The thing about letting the weather dictate what you do when working out is that it so often leads to not doing anything. Its too easy to make excuses, it really is the hardest part about getting in shape. Depending on where you live, you could have almost 6 months of the year where its "too cold" to run, and another 4 that are "too hot" and you end up not doing anything. I've been there and done that myself.
Also running is a great way to stay warm when you are outside, get moving and you don't need to wear that much to stay warm. In fact Saturday as I was coming home from skiing I saw a woman running in shorts not 5 miles from the ski hill, temperatures were mid 30s.
Of course around here 28deg is a warm day for the winter, we've had more then a few days where our highs have been less then 15 already this winter. Knowing that though I'm spending more time in the gym instead and am going to change my focus from long distance endurance running that I was doing during the summer and now going to focus on strength training and shorter "pace" runs.


stuff about Yoga vs pilates
It really comes down to your instructor, or videos you have. Around here the yoga is lower intensity then the pilates, but both instructors talk a lot about good form and give options for different intensities depending on your abilities. And while I really like the pilates instructor, if it came down to joint issues and pain the yoga instructor would be the first one I would talk to. The yoga instructor does a lower intensity, stretching focused class because that is what she prefers and there are a lot of other classes offered at higher intensities so she focuses the yoga much more on the breathing, stretching, and relaxing side of things.


I need to get a scheduled routine set but there's something I'm not sure about. As far as weight training and running is there any reason not to do them on the same day? Say for example, running Monday through Thursday and weight training Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?
What I found is that working out every day not only wears you out physically but mentally as well. Especially if you're spending enough time to put in a good amount of work on each side of things. Seeing as how cardio really should be at least 30 minutes, it seems like you can't do much of anything else during the week if you're spending 1.5-2hrs every single day working out.

As for doing both on the same day, I do about half the time. What I've read says that its best to lift first and do cardio after. If you do it the other way your lifting tends to take a hit, but if you lift first it doesn't have much of an effect on your cardio. You still warm up with something that is often cardio like, you just don't do it for long enough to be cardio, just some to warm up.

That is of course for general fitness, if you have some specific goals you would need to change some stuff accordingly.

[Haruki-kun]

I need to get a scheduled routine set but there's something I'm not sure about. As far as weight training and running is there any reason not to do them on the same day? Say for example, running Monday through Thursday and weight training Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?


What I found is that working out every day not only wears you out physically but mentally as well. Especially if you're spending enough time to put in a good amount of work on each side of things. Seeing as how cardio really should be at least 30 minutes, it seems like you can't do much of anything else during the week if you're spending 1.5-2hrs every single day working out.

As for doing both on the same day, I do about half the time. What I've read says that its best to lift first and do cardio after. If you do it the other way your lifting tends to take a hit, but if you lift first it doesn't have much of an effect on your cardio. You still warm up with something that is often cardio like, you just don't do it for long enough to be cardio, just some to warm up.

That is of course for general fitness, if you have some specific goals you would need to change some stuff accordingly.

This is correct.

Cardio needs to be left for after lifting because your hormone levels will be lower. This is something I read a while ago, I'll see if I can find the article (it was really long ago, so I might not be able to). The only problem with that is that after lifting you're tired and usually don't want to do the cardio.... >.O

....cardio is my weakness. :smalltongue:

[Shadow of the Sun]

Notice that as an Australian, I'm talking about degrees centigrade.

So...

Yeah, 28 degrees with 55% humidity isn't exactly peanuts. 82.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

As for letting the weather dictate my exercise plans: yes, I understand that I could end up using it for excuses- as I have in the past.

That said, ending up with heat stroke due to running at a high temperature and high humidity - ESPECIALLY since I'm on SSRIs, which increase the risk of heat stroke - is not a particularly appealing idea, nor a particularly good one in terms of fitness.

[Cristo Meyers]

... it seems like you can't do much of anything else during the week if you're spending 1.5-2hrs every single day working out.


I'll vouch for this personally. I was working out just about every day for at least an hour and a half for eight weeks straight. By the end of week eight I was so sick to death of losing so much time to working out (most days wouldn't see me done until after 7 pm) that I still won't go back to that routine. It will wear you down.

[Vacant]

Huh, this is the first I'm hearing of C25K, it looks a lot like how I got started running, back in the day.

I actually learned I really liked doing cardio after lifting; starting off tired just cuts out the middle-man between you and "Runner's high." :smallwink:

[Erloas]

Yeah, 28 degrees with 55% humidity isn't exactly peanuts. 82.4 degrees Fahrenheit.
Ah, well thats nothing really. 28F would be more of an issue to run in and that isn't much of a problem. I don't think there is anywhere in the USA that doesn't get into the 90s or 100s during the summer. I'm in one of the coldest parts of the US (not counting Alaska) and we get over 82F a lot in the summer. Given we're in a high desert (ie 6000ft and usually 20-30% humidity) so we're not as humid, but 6000ft has its own issues with cardio.

People run in Phoenix all the time and they spend 3+ months where the temps hardly drop below 90 for 3-4 months in a row even in the middle of the night with highs always in the 100s.
And I have been in a more humid area just this summer, was 80-90s and 80%+ humidity and did quite a bit of physical activity in that.

The short version is that it really is nothing. Its entirely mental, there is nothing at all "extreme" about that weather. It will take a bit of getting used to, but drink plenty of fluids and cover your skin so you don't burn and you can easily run in that.

[Zimfan]

Thanks guys. I should be able to get a routine together (now the hard part will be, sticking to it).


This is correct.

Cardio needs to be left for after lifting because your hormone levels will be lower. This is something I read a while ago, I'll see if I can find the article (it was really long ago, so I might not be able to). The only problem with that is that after lifting you're tired and usually don't want to do the cardio.... >.O

....cardio is my weakness. :smalltongue:

[Hannes]

Okay, so I did the first run of C25K yesterday. Today a friend of mine invited me to go for a run together. I accepted.

I ended up running about 7.5km in an hour. Slow pace, so I didn't run out of breath much (a bit in the beginning), but boy was I tired after it. Was hard to stand up normally after finishing :smalltongue:

[Juggling Goth]

Ow oh god lunges ow.

Or it might be the hideous straddle-leg-stance squats.

One of the two means I now yell and curse with every step when I go down stairs.

[Liffguard]

Somehow I seem to have found myself in the position of weighing in at 191lbs at a height of 5'7". This is not an inherently bad thing, I'm still at a single-digit bodyfat percentage. However, I now need to cut 33lbs to get down to fighting weight, and that's gonna suck.:smallannoyed:

[Haruki-kun]

191 lbs., 5'7'', single digit bodyfat? Whoa, dude.... awesome. :smallcool:

[Spiryt]

Somehow I seem to have found myself in the position of weighing in at 191lbs at a height of 5'7". This is not an inherently bad thing, I'm still at a single-digit bodyfat percentage. However, I now need to cut 33lbs to get down to fighting weight, and that's gonna suck.:smallannoyed:

Anthony "Rumble' Johnson says that it's not problem at all! :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/397581/johnson-arlovski.jpg

Seriously, though that sounds hard. You will pretty much be forced to shed quite a lot of muscle, no?

[Liffguard]

Seriously, though that sounds hard. You will pretty much be forced to shed quite a lot of muscle, no?

Some of it will end up being water and fat, but yeah, it'll mostly be muscle. It's simply that I get diminishing strength returns at higher weights, so when I fight at lower weights I'm less strong in absolute terms but my relative strength compared to my opponents is higher. I just hate cutting, it makes me cranky.

[Cristo Meyers]

Somehow I seem to have found myself in the position of weighing in at 191lbs at a height of 5'7". This is not an inherently bad thing, I'm still at a single-digit bodyfat percentage. However, I now need to cut 33lbs to get down to fighting weight, and that's gonna suck.:smallannoyed:

Ick...and I thought losing the 17 pounds I've lost was bad...

Well, closer to 14 now, been trending upwards a bit lately...need to take a look at that. Bloody food cravings have been worse lately for some reason.

First day weight-lifting today. It wasn't easy for sure, but I think I could probably increase the weight for next time. I'm not even really sore, which is something I definitely expected.

[Haruki-kun]

Well, closer to 14 now, been trending upwards a bit lately...need to take a look at that. Bloody food cravings have been worse lately for some reason.

It happens. I may have put on a couple of unwanted pounds in recent weeks. All that awesome food and stuff....


First day weight-lifting today. It wasn't easy for sure, but I think I could probably increase the weight for next time.

Awesome, dude! I hope you enjoyed it. Weight lifting is some of the best stuff you can do.


I'm not even really sore, which is something I definitely expected.

:smallamused: Wait for tomorrow...

[Cristo Meyers]

It happens. I may have put on a couple of unwanted pounds in recent weeks. All that awesome food and stuff....

Yeah, it's just kinda worrying since I'm trying to not fall back into my old eating habits. I'm going to try a week-long experiment of going back to the Wii for a weight loss workout on top of my gym workout to see if I can shave off a pound or two and see if it's just a slip.

Really as long as the scale stays below 170 I can't complain.


Awesome, dude! I hope you enjoyed it. Weight lifting is some of the best stuff you can do.

Yeah, it was great. Felt great. Too bad I'll only get two or three weight-lifting workouts in a week since I don't have access to the gym on weekends.


:smallamused: Wait for tomorrow...

Heh, I remember. I did a bit of weight-lifting way back in college (almost a decade ago now...:smallsigh:) and I couldn't unbend my arms the morning after. This feels different. Eh, we'll see tomorrow either way.

[Vacant]

Getting to fighting weight sucks, either way. I've only ever had to work to gain it, but that's not really fun, either.

[Erloas]

So I've had a bit of a situation lately that I haven't really been able to figure out. I usually weight myself every day first thing in the morning, and sometimes later in the day, usually the morning weight it about 1-2lbs less then later in the day, which I think is to be expected.
I had very slowly been working down to 150/152 (digital scale, so fairly accurate and repeatable). Well two weeks ago we had 2 retirement lunches in a row at work followed by a Christmas party the second day. After that next morning I was up to 154 in the morning, which isn't that odd all things considered. But it was most of a week after that (including several workouts, one the next day specifically lifting) before my weight started to come down at all from that. Usually if I overeat the weight only lasts a day or two. And at this point 2 weeks later I still haven't seen it below about 153. Thats with going back to my normal training and eating.
I know I ate more, but I didn't eat that much more, I didn't really gorge myself or any thing. So I doubt I ate anywhere near an extra 7000-10000 calories needed to put on 3 lbs of fat. I don't think I would have ate more then maybe an extra 2000 calories over the 3 meals over 2 days (though the alcohol at the party is harder to keep track of in terms of calories, didn't drink a whole lot but have no reference for what the liquor has).

Now a lot of that was fatty and high protein (ribs and prime rib and chicken) and I stayed away from the majority of the carb heavy stuff (other then a bit of cake and pie, but not a lot).
I just don't know how possible it might have been that I put on a few pounds of muscle in that time and even a mix of muscle and fat, it seems like a lot for just 2 days, and if it where fat I would expect it to have started coming back off since then. Only bit I've seen on building muscle is that it takes something like 700-800 calories for a lb of muscle, which would probably have been closer to the extra amount I took in. About the only way I could see it having been even 2 lbs of muscle in that little amount of time is if they were primed and ready to build just didn't have what enough material to build so it went quick. But I don't know if that happens and its still really fast, though they do say starting out goes much faster then when you've build up some (much the same but exactly opposite of loosing fat).

Not really going anywhere specific with this, just something I've noticed lately and been thinking about.

If I knew where the weight went it wouldn't be a problem, I just don't think either option makes a whole lot of sense though. And my goal for the last few months was to get through the holiday season still below 155, so I'm getting close to that. Don't have an issue with being more then that if its muscle, but given the holiday foods, fat is the most likely type of gain to be seen.

[Haruki-kun]

I think it could have been a combination of fat, muscle, and water weight. Anything goes, really. My weight fluctuates day to day, so I don't think much about it. Weight is a horrible indication of how fit you are.

[Tyndmyr]

I think it could have been a combination of fat, muscle, and water weight. Anything goes, really. My weight fluctuates day to day, so I don't think much about it. Weight is a horrible indication of how fit you are.

Would agree. It's useful for extreme measurements(guy who weighs 500 lbs ain't fit), but it's not at all a precise gauge. I know my weight can fluctuate a few lbs from day to day depending on what I've been doing, eating, etc. Pretty normal, really. If you want to track weight, you'll want to use a weighted average, as per the hacker's diet online tool, or something similar to look over the long term trends instead of focusing on short term changes.

As for muscle growth...if you've been working out heavily and consuming protein immediately post workout(as well as spread out through the day, ideally), you can get some solid muscle growth, especially when first starting a new exercise regimen, but it will only go so high. For instance, if you're eating more than about 30g of protein in a single meal...you're not really going to get anything from the excess. Your body can only process it into muscle so rapidly.

I've got to say, fitocracy's been something of a motivator. I got a bunch of friends on it, bet em a fancy dinner as to who could get more points, and now we're all hitting the gym. Coupla days ago, I pulled off a thousand point day. Sadly, others are doing even more...one cleared 2k points in a single day and is routinely above 1500. I've got to add more cardio and such to keep up, I suspect.

Edit: Scratch that..someone just pulled off a 3800 point workout. This is more points than I have total, so I'm fairly impressed. Gonna have to crush it tonight.

[Haruki-kun]

As for muscle growth...if you've been working out heavily and consuming protein immediately post workout(as well as spread out through the day, ideally), you can get some solid muscle growth, especially when first starting a new exercise regimen, but it will only go so high. For instance, if you're eating more than about 30g of protein in a single meal...you're not really going to get anything from the excess. Your body can only process it into muscle so rapidly.

True, but I'm fairly certain the max is higher than 30 g. per meal. Actually, I'm also fairly certain it's higher than 50g. per meal. But there is a max amount the body can process at once.


I've got to say, fitocracy's been something of a motivator. I got a bunch of friends on it, bet em a fancy dinner as to who could get more points, and now we're all hitting the gym. Coupla days ago, I pulled off a thousand point day. Sadly, others are doing even more...one cleared 2k points in a single day and is routinely above 1500. I've got to add more cardio and such to keep up, I suspect.

Edit: Scratch that..someone just pulled off a 3800 point workout. This is more points than I have total, so I'm fairly impressed. Gonna have to crush it tonight.

Yup! It's an awesome motivator. :smallsmile:

[Erloas]

I think it could have been a combination of fat, muscle, and water weight. Anything goes, really. My weight fluctuates day to day, so I don't think much about it. Weight is a horrible indication of how fit you are.

My weight does too, which is why I watch it every day to see if its trending downward (the direction I want it to at this point because I'm not doing anything to specifically build muscle and I think I've got a good 5-10 more pounds of fat I could loose and still be in a very healthy range). It also gives me an idea of what I'm doing every day and how it effects my body, because short of some really expensive medical equipment there isn't a whole lot you can check easily.
That is also why I've waited 2 weeks to watch it, because at that point it can't be water weight.



And weight is a very good indication of how fit you are, if you are in the average of people. "Weight is meaningless" I think is one of the worst statements fitness people can make because the people that are hearing it don't realize that the context in which it was said doesn't apply to them. It doesn't mean anything to professional athletes, people that have 6% body fat, and huge muscles. But to the person sitting at their computer 10 hours a day and not doing much of anything, it means a lot. And of course there are the skinny out of shape people, where it also doesn't apply to as much.

I read something a while ago about people's perception of their overall health and well being and it was something like 80% of people were overly optimistic about what sort of shape they were in. Most people categorized themselves as at least 1 level better then what they really were. Which, the article said leads to the fact that so many people don't make the effort to get into shape. If you think you're "average and where you should be" you aren't going to try to get in shape, even if you are actually overweight.

I think its a dangerous statement simply because it leads too many people into a false sense of being "ok".



Which is of course a complete tangent to my reason of posting that. I'm not worried about gaining 2 pounds, I want to know why, and what I was gaining at that point. If it was fat, why isn't it starting to work off that quickly. Is it even possible to put that much straight body weight on in such a short period of time. Could is possibly have been muscle given the circumstances? Hardly seems like it to me.

[Tyndmyr]

True, but I'm fairly certain the max is higher than 30 g. per meal. Actually, I'm also fairly certain it's higher than 50g. per meal. But there is a max amount the body can process at once.

Source (http://www.adajournal.org/article/S0002-8223%2809%2900769-X/abstract)

Note that this is grams of protein, as per the nutrition label, not total grams of the thing you're eating. Milk has lots of protein for example, but a serving of milk only gets you like 8g of protein, and that's a reasonable volume.

So, space it out. Ideally, you're hitting it rapidly post workout(some say a little bit shortly before as well), and a goodly amount of protein throughout the day. Muscle building takes place for quite a while after workout, so a stead supply of protein is really what you want anyhow.


2 lbs is not a lot of weight, and is well within standard variation. I wouldn't worry a great deal about it.

[Haruki-kun]

Re: Weight
It's not completely meaningless, it's just not an appropriate indication. And I am not referring to people who weight 300 lbs all in muscle. Even average people can put on a pound of two of muscle or fat either way. Or lose it. It's still not a good indicator.

Re: The issue at hand.
Yes, it is possible within the realm of possibility to put on two lbs. of muscle in that week, no, it is not likely. Have you changed or added anything to your diet at all?


Source (http://www.adajournal.org/article/S0002-8223%2809%2900769-X/abstract)

Yikes! :smalleek: I might be wrong, then. I'm not sure if this article applies here, though. This article focuses on the elderly and young subjects, not in strength trainers.

This post has been here without being submitted for the last 30 minutes while I checked to see if I could find any literature to support me. I found this one (http://www.tomvenuto.com/asktom/protein_grams_per_meal.shtml) and this one (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/proroundtable.htm) (scroll down), but I'm not sure if they can compare to your very official-looking medical journal. :smalltongue:

[Tyndmyr]

I would imagine that a detailed equation of exactly how protein is metabolized would be...complicated. That said, how much you work out shouldn't notably affect metabolization of the protein...merely how much you convert into muscle. On someone that isn't working out at all, the body will still take in the protein, it'll just get burned off or converted to body fat or whatever.

I would imagine rather than a pure hard limit, there's at least a small area of diminishing returns for protein/meal. Keep in mind that over-eating is probably not a problem whatsoever for people on the extremely high end of muscle building, so they probably go well over the top to avoid ever being at all under.

For a more balanced workout/getting in shape thing...we probably eat a wide variety of food, and it's more important to maximize the gain from our protein intake/day by spreading it out that it is to absolutely maximize total protein intake.

[Alarra]

Is there anything a person with fibromyalgia, a LOT of joint pain and dysautonomia can do to get fit? :smallfrown:

As someone with Fibromyalgia and joint pain, I would recommend exercising in water. Swimming is good, but you also might look into a water aerobics class or something similar. The community center near me offers aqua-aerobics, aquajogging and aqua-yoga, for example.

[Erloas]

Re: Weight
It's not completely meaningless, it's just not an appropriate indication. And I am not referring to people who weight 300 lbs all in muscle. Even average people can put on a pound of two of muscle or fat either way. Or lose it. It's still not a good indicator.
If someone says they are 5'8" and 200 lbs they could either be really buff, or most likely heavy and out of shape, and of course without any information you can't really know either way but its probably pretty safe to assume that the majority in that situation are going to be in the overweight side of things, not the super fit sort of thing.

And of course its also a good idea of some levels of progress. You'll almost always see weight loss before you see pants sizes going down. Its much easier and practical they asking someone if they can really run 3 miles and not be mostly dead afterwards. Its a change you will see before you see that your 10k time has increased or decreased by 5 minutes. And in general weight gain or weight loss is a very good indication of how much you are eating versus how much you need to be eating, and thats true if you are in shape or out of shape and trying to build muscle or burn fat.


And in my case specifically, it was the sudden change that was out of the norm that I want to find out more about. Even if it had been a sudden jump down by 2-3 lbs in 2 days, that would be something I would want to investigate further. Because other then eating extra those 2 days, nothing else changed for me, but I don't think I ate enough extra to gain 2-3 lbs in either far or muscle. And in a general sense, fluctuations in weight is normal, but I've been checking my weight consistently enough that I know those fluctuations. What is normal and what is not normal, and this last change was unexpected and unprecedented in the last 8 months when I started watching my specific weight more closely.
And its not so much a point of concern as it is trying to know what happened. Even if it was all good weight gain, as in muscle, thats valuable information to know the why and how of it happening.

edit: And of course why I want to know is to figure out what to change. The two most likely scenarios is: 1) What I'm currently doing and eating is right at what I need to do to maintain, if I eat much more or exercise less I'm going to start gaining fat again. 2) I'm under my calorie need and my body is primed to build muscle, if I up my calorie intake (with good quality food) I can build a decent amount of muscle with what I'm currently doing, and there would be no reason not to.
I don't know of any good way of figuring out which situation I'm at right now and its not like I would be building muscle fast enough to see any real change in my biceps or anything like that that could be measured and I'm still working on getting rid of some fat on my gut (not a lot, but still some there).

[Erts]

This made my day, a fit thread on GITP. It's great.
I've been heavily working out for about a year. I never thought that I would be able to reach where I am now.
If you don't know where to get started, look at Haruki's first post. It is pretty much from where I started from on /fit. This is a specific link if you can't navigate the wiki. (http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program) Here is a guide for the lifts. (http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Lifts)
Does anyone else go on (or used to go on, in my case) /fit? I ask because Haruki-kun's posts were pretty much the sticky there and Warhawk posted several motivations from there.
Also, while the idea sounds interesting, I can't seem to get fitocracy to work. Is an invite required?

[Cristo Meyers]

Also, while the idea sounds interesting, I can't seem to get fitocracy to work. Is an invite required?

Yeah, it's invite only.

Shoot me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send you one if you want.



:smallamused: Wait for tomorrow...

Why do you always have to be so right...why?!

...my arms...

[THAC0]

Second week of hotel living. I had some good routines going the first week with dumbbells and such thanks to you all and fitocracy, but this week I've been doing long days at a somewhat physically intensive (small motor control mostly) class, so I've been very tired, but I'm still doing some basic crunches and pushups every night. Again, thanks to fitocracy's motivation!

[Haruki-kun]

This made my day, a fit thread on GITP. It's great.
I've been heavily working out for about a year. I never thought that I would be able to reach where I am now.
If you don't know where to get started, look at Haruki's first post. It is pretty much from where I started from on /fit. This is a specific link if you can't navigate the wiki. (http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program) Here is a guide for the lifts. (http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Lifts)
Does anyone else go on (or used to go on, in my case) /fit? I ask because Haruki-kun's posts were pretty much the sticky there and Warhawk posted several motivations from there.
Also, while the idea sounds interesting, I can't seem to get fitocracy to work. Is an invite required?

I used to, I haven't visited 4chan much lately. I didn't actually take the links from the sticky, I just remembered them from my days there. I remember when the sticky there was first set up. :smalltongue: Yeah, /fit/ swears by Starting Strength and Stronglifts.


Why do you always have to be so right...why?!

...my arms...

*snerk* :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

*snerk* :smallbiggrin:

We'll see who's snerking when I'm bench pressing your feathery behind :smalltongue:

Ok...so...lower body workout? Much more strenuous than upper body. And lunges suck...a lot. :smallyuk:

[Tyndmyr]

Ring muscle-ups are...ludicrously high pointed. Like 55 points each.

Now, I don't contest that they're hard and should have a pile of points. Just not...almost three miles of walking/jogging worth of points. A couple sets of them should not be the equivalent of a marathon.

[Haruki-kun]

We'll see who's snerking when I'm bench pressing your feathery behind :smalltongue:

Shouldn't be too hard. I only weight 210 lbs.


Ok...so...lower body workout? Much more strenuous than upper body. And lunges suck...a lot. :smallyuk:

Yes, but it's some of the best work you can do. Lower body is extremely important. It's very tempting to skip it, but.... don't.

Did you do SQUATZ?


Ring muscle-ups are...ludicrously high pointed. Like 55 points each.

Now, I don't contest that they're hard and should have a pile of points. Just not...almost three miles of walking/jogging worth of points. A couple sets of them should not be the equivalent of a marathon.

Yeah... well, Fitocracy is in Beta, I assume this is the sort of thing they want to figure out.

[Sissyphus]

Ring muscle-ups are...ludicrously high pointed. Like 55 points each.

Now, I don't contest that they're hard and should have a pile of points. Just not...almost three miles of walking/jogging worth of points. A couple sets of them should not be the equivalent of a marathon.

Having done a sixteen mile run and ten muscle ups on rings, honestly the ring muscle ups were harder.

[Cristo Meyers]

Yes, but it's some of the best work you can do. Lower body is extremely important. It's very tempting to skip it, but.... don't.

Did you do SQUATZ?


'Course. 5 sets/15 reps each/40 pounds + bar. Was expecting to be able to do more weight, and I probably could go up to 50, but I've sprained my back before and didn't want to push too hard at the start. A back sprain while at work is not something I want to risk. Finished with dumbell calf raises and leg presses.

Did the squats before the lunges, which may have been part of the problem. I'll do the lunges first next time, see if it helps. I was never very good at them, though.

[Tyndmyr]

Having done a sixteen mile run and ten muscle ups on rings, honestly the ring muscle ups were harder.

Well, yeah. According to normal pointing, the ten muscle ups were worth about a marathon's worth of running. 55.7 points per muscle up to be exact, so 557 points for that set. It'd take a bit over 27 miles to get equal pointage.

That seems a bit high. Running a marathon is a fairly hard thing to pull off. Almost nobody can do that on a daily basis. While muscle ups on rings are no joke, if you can get a set of a couple of them done, you can do ten a day no problem.

More amusingly, try entering reps of the exercise "shake-weight".

[Erloas]

Having done a sixteen mile run and ten muscle ups on rings, honestly the ring muscle ups were harder.

Having looked up but not actually tried the lift, they seem like a hard lift but not necessarily an exercise that shows a high level of activity.
And if Tyndmyr's numbers are right, I don't see how an exercise that can take at most a few seconds could possibly be equivalent to about 30 minutes of activity in terms of general fitness. Sure, it probably takes a lot more effort to train to the point of doing the lift, but once you're there its just another lift, even if it does require a lot of different muscle groups.


'Course. 5 sets/15 reps each/40 pounds + bar. Was expecting to be able to do more weight, and I probably could go up to 50, but I've sprained my back before and didn't want to push too hard at the start. A back sprain while at work is not something I want to risk. Finished with dumbell calf raises and leg presses.

Did the squats before the lunges, which may have been part of the problem. I'll do the lunges first next time, see if it helps. I was never very good at them, though.
40lbs for squats for that many reps is quite a bit just starting out. For a routine workout I'm probably not much past that point. At least if you are doing the squats correctly, if you do them incorrectly you can do a lot more weight pretty easily. And its an easy lift to get the form wrong on, most people get their knees too far forward.

[Sissyphus]

Having looked up but not actually tried the lift, they seem like a hard lift but not necessarily an exercise that shows a high level of activity.
And if Tyndmyr's numbers are right, I don't see how an exercise that can take at most a few seconds could possibly be equivalent to about 30 minutes of activity in terms of general fitness. Sure, it probably takes a lot more effort to train to the point of doing the lift, but once you're there its just another lift, even if it does require a lot of different muscle groups.

You're probably right, though doing ten in a row is hard as heck, kind of like running a marathon... I wonder if you split up a marathon into int 13 two mile runs every half hour, how hard would it be... I think I know what I'll be doing tomorrow.

[Tyndmyr]

13 two mile runs would no doubt be easier, but it's still a notable undertaking.

A lot of workout seem to scale strictly linearly, but not all of them do. There's a few I'm still trying to work out the exact point calculation logic.

[Erts]

Is there any way to get credit for the gains that I've made for the past year?
Furthermore, can I get an invite to the GITP group that is apparently on there?

[Cristo Meyers]

40lbs for squats for that many reps is quite a bit just starting out. For a routine workout I'm probably not much past that point. At least if you are doing the squats correctly, if you do them incorrectly you can do a lot more weight pretty easily. And its an easy lift to get the form wrong on, most people get their knees too far forward.

I know that it's weight into heels and knees shouldn't go past your toes, but that's about it. I'll have to watch that next time...

[Calmar]

I really like this workout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAh7m4xsMo&feature=relmfu). :smallsmile:

edit: For those of you who care about context and stuff; I originally posted this in another thread. :smallconfused:

[Haruki-kun]

Is there any way to get credit for the gains that I've made for the past year?
Furthermore, can I get an invite to the GITP group that is apparently on there?

No, but the system will catch up with you. At first you level up really fast.

[Tyndmyr]

No, but the system will catch up with you. At first you level up really fast.

This. The more in shape people in the group I've started basically get a lot more points per session.

It's kind of essential to do it this way, really. Otherwise, you have the problem of accurately tallying what you've actually done over a year of history. And that can get very, very subjective. They only let you enter in up to 4 days in the past.

[Cristo Meyers]

Ah...more weightlifting...Nothing like doing the bench press with only 20 pounds on each end of the bar to make you feel like a manly man :smallbiggrin:

Hopefully this time I won't be quite so sore in the morning...

[Warlawk]

Ah...more weightlifting...Nothing like doing the bench press with only 20 pounds on each end of the bar to make you feel like a manly man :smallbiggrin:

Hopefully this time I won't be quite so sore in the morning...

Hey, everyone starts somewhere. When I started a few months ago I was lifting not much more than that and I'm a big guy. I just kept telling myself I'd rather be the guy benching 60 and getting sore than the guy giving up because other people would think that number is pitiful and remaining a weak out of shape lump of fat. 4 months and I've gone from sub100 to creeping up on benching my body weight of 245. Not quite there yet, but getting real close. I realize for the serious lifters it's not impressive, but I don't much care what they would think because it's a big step for me and that's all that matters.

You don't have to be stronger than me. You don't have to be as tough as the guys in the magazines/websites. You just need to be stronger today than you were yesterday, and stronger tomorrow than today. That's the approach I've taken and I've made large consistent gains that I'm pretty happy with.

Just got a bit of body fat left to trim, it's coming much much slower than my fast early losses, but it is still happening so that's what matters.

[Haruki-kun]

@^What he said. Also:


Hopefully this time I won't be quite so sore in the morning...

....embrace the soreness! :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

Yeah, I know, it's just my self-depricating sense of humor showing through. Honestly I'm surprised I was able to do that much, it's been a long time since I've done the bench.



....embrace the soreness! :smallbiggrin:

Actually not all that sore this time...

...guess that means I'll have to try harder next time :smallamused:

[Warlawk]

creeping up on benching my body weight of 245. Not quite there yet, but getting real close. I realize for the serious lifters it's not impressive, but I don't much care what they would think because it's a big step for me and that's all that matters.


Managed this today, just a couple reps but I was still pretty pleased. I think I could have gone 250 and a full set of 5... but my wife was out finishing up Xmas stuff so my spotter is my 12 year old and I didn't want to push my luck, heh.



Actually not all that sore this time...

...guess that means I'll have to try harder next time :smallamused:

I have noticed a huge difference in how sore I get after I started doing choc milk/whey protein right after my work out. I mean a world a difference. I'm still tired, but that kind of painful sore just doesn't happen any more even if I push hard on the bench then jump on the exercise bike for 10+ miles right afterward.

[Newman]

Er, hello. I do Pilates. It's surprisingly taxing. Also, I was amazed at how starting to work out regularly (and stpping too) dramatically changed your appetites. I've stopped for a month because of the exams, and I feel so unfulfilled and unappetized...

Also, anyone here got a background in chi-kung/tai-chi?

^^Whey Protein is a GIFT from the GODS. Sweet loving jesus have mercy...

[Cristo Meyers]

I have noticed a huge difference in how sore I get after I started doing choc milk/whey protein right after my work out. I mean a world a difference. I'm still tired, but that kind of painful sore just doesn't happen any more even if I push hard on the bench then jump on the exercise bike for 10+ miles right afterward.

Yeah, I started on the chocolate milk after a weight-lifting workout too. It's definitely helped with my sweet tooth issue (I exercise at work, so there's of course a metric crap-ton of candy floating around right now...) Don't have whey protein at the moment and I'm kinda iffy on getting it. I don't want to take something to help build muscle only to lose said muscle if I ever have to stop taking the protein.

Funny thing happened today while doing my squats. I start my first set and it's harder than it was last time. I don't give it much thought since I'd done my lunges and calf raises first this time, figured I was just tired. I do ten reps and put the bar back and something catches my eye: I was going to go down 5 pounds to make it easier to watch my footwork, make sure my knees weren't too far forward...

...I'd actually gone up 10 pounds.

I took five pounds off and did 10 more reps :smallbiggrin:

[Erloas]

Yeah, I started on the chocolate milk after a weight-lifting workout too. It's definitely helped with my sweet tooth issue (I exercise at work, so there's of course a metric crap-ton of candy floating around right now...)Thats a problem around here too. Not that I work out at work*, but just a lot of candy around in general. I can actually tell quite a bit of difference when I have too much because I get tired a bit afterwards.

*well today I did quite a bit, had to move 8 cylinders to the top of the power house but at least had the elevator for maybe 80 of the 100-120 vertical feet they had to go. Thats not a normal workday though.


Don't have whey protein at the moment and I'm kinda iffy on getting it. I don't want to take something to help build muscle only to lose said muscle if I ever have to stop taking the protein.
I don't really think thats an issue. At least not until you get to the high levels of muscle building, or cut way back on what you eat. The protein required to maintain is a lot less then what is required to build, so as long as you keep up the work, reduced protein intake shouldn't have you loosing muscle mass.

[Newman]

As I walk through the spot, this is what I see: a whole bunch of people just staring at me. I got passion in my abs and I ain't afraid to show it.

I'm sexy and I know it.

Seriously, it's amazing how much good working out has done me socially.

[Haruki-kun]

Funny thing happened today while doing my squats. I start my first set and it's harder than it was last time. I don't give it much thought since I'd done my lunges and calf raises first this time, figured I was just tired. I do ten reps and put the bar back and something catches my eye: I was going to go down 5 pounds to make it easier to watch my footwork, make sure my knees weren't too far forward...

...I'd actually gone up 10 pounds.

I took five pounds off and did 10 more reps :smallbiggrin:


Seriously, it's amazing how much good working out has done me socially.

NSV: Non-Scale Victory.

Probably one of the greatest motivations out there is when you start noticing people notice. :smallcool:

[Newman]

^^ Congratulations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyCFuP3rM2w)

No, I mean, seriously, why do people expect nerds and geeks to be skinny or weak or uncoordinated or otherwise unhealthy?

[Erloas]

why do people expect nerds and geeks to be skinny or weak or uncoordinated or otherwise unhealthy?
Because most of them are? But its not just them, most people in general are. I would bet that its maybe 20-30% of people in general that are in decent shape. And a majority of them either have physically demanding jobs or physically demanding hobbies. Since we know the primary hobby of many geeks and nerds, and there aren't a lot of physically demanding jobs any more; and the people that are generally more inclined to being geeks and nerds also are more inclined to desk jobs then something like construction.
So the cross section of people in shape and people that are geeks and nerds is really very small.

And this is probably a decent example of that. We have maybe a dozen different posters in this thread, and about half of them are wanting to get in shape (so they aren't there already) and thats out of a community here of several hundred(?) regular posters.
Of course looking at the You threads, we've got plenty of good looking people here, but many of them are not in shape, some skinny and some not.

[Newman]

Well, anyway you don't need to be in particualrly in shape or handsome to be socially attractive (and I mean socially in general, not just sexually). Look at Michael Cera.

You know, what's irritating is when being in shape gets in the way of things. Look at Carlton Banks, he's incredibly buff and agile and stuff, but since he's so short people just literally overlook that, and their first guess is that he's fat or something. Or look at very tall guys, when they build up they can be so intimidating it's socially uncomfortable. One has to act nice and smiley all the time just to reassure people one isn't gonna gobble their backsides up in a big tasty stew. One is not amused. (http://4.asset.soup.io/asset/2478/8180_4209_960.jpeg)

[Erloas]

I'm not sure how your last post relates to your previous post at all. Being healthy, skinny, weak, a nerd or a geek has little impact on how attractive you are. A lot can change though depending how extreme any of those factors are for you, but almost no extreme is socially attractive to most people.

Overall though I really have no idea what your point is, what you are really trying to say, or how it relates to this thread.

[Newman]

I'm just saying it's not as clear cut as: "Get more muscle" or "Get more tone" and you'll automatically seem attractive. Too much muscle volume will make you seem scary, or narcissitic. Too much "wiry" and you'll look scary in a different way. And then there's just your body type and bone structure you have to think of. I'm just saying, there's lots of factors, and it's frustrating when you put your efforts in the wrong direction and muscle yourself in a way that doesn't look right on you, because it's a lot of effort over a lot of time.

And, well, if you have tastes that are too specialized (geek) or are not good with people (nerd), having a nice build might not help much with that.

At least being fit makes everyday life a lot easier... if you discount all the food you gotta eat, and that's if you dont take any dietary supplements.

[Jack Squat]

I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on suspension trainers, like the TRX (http://www.trxtraining.com/), or I guess more if anyone's used them. I got one of these for free awhile back, and never really did much with it (much like the other fitness stuff I've gotten for free).

However, now I'm looking at getting a little more serious about fitness - due in part to a recent knee surgery - and was wondering if it's worth the time. I'm at what I suppose people will call an "intermediate level" - or will be here when I can walk/run again.

If no one's got any experience, I'll try it for a couple weeks and report back.

[Erts]

I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on suspension trainers, like the TRX (http://www.trxtraining.com/), or I guess more if anyone's used them. I got one of these for free awhile back, and never really did much with it (much like the other fitness stuff I've gotten for free).

However, now I'm looking at getting a little more serious about fitness - due in part to a recent knee surgery - and was wondering if it's worth the time. I'm at what I suppose people will call an "intermediate level" - or will be here when I can walk/run again.

If no one's got any experience, I'll try it for a couple weeks and report back.

In my experience TRX is not a good as lifting- yeah, it will help a little with exercise, but weight training is better.
EDIT: Of course, only if you are okayed by a doctor.

[Erloas]

So what is everyone's thoughts on telling someone else, that you don't know, that they are doing a lift wrong?
Of course I tried to tell my dad he was doing a few lifts with poor form and he didn't really listen. And in fact basically said "thats just because I'm doing a lot of weight." Yeah well, thats the worst time to have bad form.

But the question was because some guy came in and started doing squats and he was way too far forward, with his butt over his feet. He didn't seem like he was all that new to the gym, so I think he thought that was the right way to do them, rather then being new and not knowing what he was doing.

Of course a few months ago, when I got my brother to go to classes once, the instructor told him he was doing squats wrong and told him the right way to do them. He was doing essentially the same thing. And after the class he insisted they were wrong and didn't know what they were talking about and they were doing them wrong.

[Liffguard]

So what is everyone's thoughts on telling someone else, that you don't know, that they are doing a lift wrong?
Of course I tried to tell my dad he was doing a few lifts with poor form and he didn't really listen. And in fact basically said "thats just because I'm doing a lot of weight." Yeah well, thats the worst time to have bad form.

But the question was because some guy came in and started doing squats and he was way too far forward, with his butt over his feet. He didn't seem like he was all that new to the gym, so I think he thought that was the right way to do them, rather then being new and not knowing what he was doing.


In my experience most people don't listen to unsolicited advice about form, even if it comes from a professional. If someone comes to me and asks for a critique/correction then I'm more than happy to oblige (provided it's for a lift that I feel I have at least basic competence, I won't be critiquing anyone's oly lift form for example). But I don't step in unless someone is doing something that is of immediate danger to themselves or others. In the vast majority of cases they're at best dismissive and at worst hostile.

[Haruki-kun]

Personally, I welcome advice. I have been given a "ur doin it wrong" and used it to correct my form. Unfortunately... you can't really know how people will react to it. Some people will say "great thanks! :smallsmile:" while other people might find it offensive.

[Erloas]

The TRX trainer, well I don't know anything about it really, but there are a lot of similar systems out there. My friend just got a praxis system and she seems excited about it, for what thats worth. Band training can be pretty much as good as actual weight, in some cases its better and some its worse. How that specific system compares is a harder question though. One fairly common complaint about those types of systems though is finding a safe and sturdy anchor point for the bands if they go up very high in tension.

So on Saturday I did some closer to max lifting because I had someone to spot for me. I was sort of surprised that my max was only about 125, though I couldn't really say what sort of condition my muscles were in. That is about 80% of my body weight. Of course dropping it down to 100 or so and I could do that for a long time. So the drop off between easy and hard seems to be fairly steep.
I really need to start working on my max lifting. Which is my plan for the winter but haven't been really consistent with it yet.

And Christmas has been more glutenous then Thanksgiving was. I think I put on upwards of 4 lbs over 4 days. It didn't help that I missed Monday's workout taking someone to the airport, and that is my hardest day of the week. And I have something planned for tonight, so I can't do the cardio I normally do Wednesdays, so instead I did spinning last night, which is usually my rest night. It was a pretty good workout, if a bit boring, but my knees are a bit sore this morning.

[Haruki-kun]

I try to just overeat on Christmas and control myself the rest of the time, but it's pretty hard when my family keeps bringing leftovers home. Leftovers being brownies and cookies, not turkey and veggies. >.>

[Newman]

Turkey is the best meat.

Anyone here know what the point of Zinc dietaryt supplements is?

[TDB Lady]

I'm not by any means buff (in fact, overweight & out of shape right now due to an injury that has finally healed after more than a year) but am looking for ways to mix up my exercise routines a little more, now that I am back into it. Right now, I do yoga, resistance bands, small free weights, and walking. I hike and backpack when the weather cooperates. I also do lots of yard work in season.

I have some arthritis and other issues from a car accident and a work injury which limit me somewhat, but I do know what I can do without further aggravation. I don't have access to a gym.

I am wondering about a bicycle as an additional method of increasing my endurance. Thoughts?

[Erloas]

Bicycling is great for some people. I know my friend loves her bike probably a bit more then is healthy...
But in your case I'm not sure if it offers a whole lot you can't get from hiking and backpacking. Biking is even more weather dependent then running/walking/hiking.
The main problem I've found with biking, which I've only recently started, is that where I live I sort of run out of places to go before I get to any endurance levels. A 10 mile run is pretty good for endurance, a 10 mile bike ride is pretty short. And for real long distance rides I sort of have to ride to the middle of no where, which isn't that great when you are alone. Unless of course you do laps.

General endurance can be done in a lot of ways, it just takes time because you have to be doing whatever it is for a long time to really start working endurance.

I have found variety is hard to get on your own, mostly because you don't know what you don't know to look for. And its hard to give specific variations on what you've listed as you've keep it fairly generic.

[Tyndmyr]

I used to bike all the time when I was in minnesota, things I needed to get to were far apart, and I was sufficiently poor that saving gas money was a virtue. 50 miles a day, I got up to after a while. Tried getting into it out east, and it was just not the same. Much denser traffic out here, nobody I knew here was also into biking, much shorter distances to get places, lack of bike racks in many location + higher crime, and a lack of caring about gas money. So...my bike got used all of like twice before I gave up and gave it away.

It *can* be good, but it's really situational. For instance, if you have friends that are into biking, and who you'd go with, that's a big plus.

Home gym stuff can be really good. I keep around a few weights of barbells, which really don't take a great deal of space. It's not nearly as complete as a gym would have, but it's enough for me. I also have one of those doorway pull-up bars, and it's pretty fantastic. When I got it, two pull-ups was about my max, and that second one was pretty sketchy. Now, since they're an easy way to get solid points on fitocracy, and I don't have to actually go anywhere to do a few quick ones, I do em all the time, and can crank out a dozen or so at a set.

[TDB Lady]

Thanks!

I used to walk 4-5 miles every day, but haven't been able to for a couple of years.

I'm really just getting back into things, I do a mile walking a few days a week, outside if the weather is at all fit, or with a DVD (12-15 minute miles) that incorporates small weights with the walking. The yoga is also on dvd, 4-5 routines I rotate through. The resistance bands and other free weight stuff is things my physical therapist taught me.

My husband was recently diagnosed with emphysema (nearly 30 years smoking, 8 weeks smoke free:smallsmile:) and so we've been somewhat limited on the hiking & backpacking lately due to that and my health. His doctor has given him the green light to do what he feels up to, so we are going to a small park nearby and hiking 1/2-1 mile at a time as he feel up to it.

My city just opened a multi-use trail right by my house that connects with a much larger one, so I could bike a big 20 mile loop....after I worked up to that point.

[Warlawk]

I try to just overeat on Christmas and control myself the rest of the time, but it's pretty hard when my family keeps bringing leftovers home. Leftovers being brownies and cookies, not turkey and veggies. >.>

I've been bad this past month... too many sweets floating around and everything. I've not eaten well but at least I've not eaten much of it as far as volume, lol. I've actually managed to drop about 3 pounds. Not much, but it's a nice consistent loss even when I'm not behaving properly on diet.

[Liffguard]

I'm gonna try and eat paleo for a month in January and see how I feel at the end. It's one of those things I've been meaning to try for a while but never really had the motivation before.

[Shadow of the Sun]

As an anthropology student, I would like to say, right now, that the paleo diet is utter nonsense.

[Liffguard]

As an anthropology student, I would like to say, right now, that the paleo diet is utter nonsense.

How so?

This text is meaningless, I just needed more than ten characters.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Well, alright, I should qualify that statement.

The diet itself, if taken with care, is probably as healthy as any other diet. However, the "sales pitch" that they give the paleo diet, that it's "More natural" than how we eat now is utter nonsense.

Humans have had a widely varied diet for the 100,000 years we've existed as a species- there are some people that have lived almost exclusively on meat, such as the Eskimo people, and people that have lived perfectly well on mostly vegetation.

Indeed- most tribes have mostly foraged food, instead of meat; it's hard to bring down an animal and such, so the women, who gathered berries, roots, and possibly trapping small animals, while large amounts of meat were not very common.

Sorry, pet peeve.

[Newman]

Paleo diet? What, forbidding potatoes and tomatoes and all the other stuff we got from the New World?

[Liffguard]

Paleo diet? What, forbidding potatoes and tomatoes and all the other stuff we got from the New World?

No grains (or pseudo-grains), legumes, dairy or processed foods.

[Warlawk]

No grains (or pseudo-grains), legumes, dairy or processed foods.

Now, I'm no nutritionist but I think the two I bolded are the keys to success. Dairy was never meant for human consumption and while it does have some things in it that are healthy, overall it can cause a lot of trouble. Processed foods are just bad news in general if you're trying to eat right.

[Spiryt]

Well, alright, I should qualify that statement.

The diet itself, if taken with care, is probably as healthy as any other diet. However, the "sales pitch" that they give the paleo diet, that it's "More natural" than how we eat now is utter nonsense.

Humans have had a widely varied diet for the 100,000 years we've existed as a species- there are some people that have lived almost exclusively on meat, such as the Eskimo people, and people that have lived perfectly well on mostly vegetation.

Indeed- most tribes have mostly foraged food, instead of meat; it's hard to bring down an animal and such, so the women, who gathered berries, roots, and possibly trapping small animals, while large amounts of meat were not very common.

Sorry, pet peeve.

Well, I'm not sure I get your point - nothing you had written is really "against" paleo diet...

People had eaten stuff they could find, and some meat from time to time indeed. No grain, diary and even more refined stuff.

[Newman]

No grains (or pseudo-grains), legumes, dairy or processed foods.

Do not want.

Even though I don't tolerate milk anymore.

Where would I be without whey protein?

[Liffguard]

Well, I'm not sure I get your point - nothing you had written is really "against" paleo diet...

People had eaten stuff they could find, and some meat from time to time indeed. No grain, diary and even more refined stuff.

Agreed. There seems to be a few misconceptions about paleo diet proponents, one of which is that they try to precisely emulate the lifestyle of paleolithic people. This isn't the case. The idea of eating like a paleolithic hunter-gatherer was just a jumping-off point that led to an easily marketable name but it's not the whole story.

As I understand it, "paleo" eating came about by noticing that paleolithic skeletons on average tended to be much taller than their neolithic descendents, with fewer signs of degenerative diseases in general. This led some researches to wonder what lifestyle changes caused this and concluding that it was certain types of foods that only entered the human diet after being domesticated and farmed. These foods apparently cause certain unhealthy hormonal reactions in humans (amongst other things) that are largely responsible for a lot of modern health problems.

Paleo diet proponents aren't advocating eating exactly like a "caveman." They're trying to eat the types of food that would be available to humans pre-agriculture even if particular foods generally wouldn't have been. And it's not a rigid code either. Different paleolithic populations had different diets depending on their local environments and there's plenty of room to experiment with different foods today. The paleo diet isn't a strict list of things you can eat, and things you can't. Rather, it's an approach to nutrition that generally asks the question, "what are humans best evolved to eat?"

[Dallas-Dakota]

New years resolutions!:smalleek:

I'm a 18 year old guy who's 161 CM long and who weighs 59 kilos.
I have some muscles in my arms and legs, for example I can lift and carry people/objects of around 100 kilos and cycle regularly. The cycling isn't much, only around 5,8 km/day. For the rest, I don't exercise much except the rare case of rafting, which I love...but considering my country is rather flat.:smalltongue:

I'm a bit on the broad side, which doesn't bother me, why I want to exercise is mainly to get rid of my ahem beerbelly.

Eating ridicilously healthy is not my thing, heck, let me tell you a weird thing. I've eaten and exercised the same amounts and kinds the last past two years, except that I've drank more alcohol and I've lost 6 KG, which is really...odd...
So exercising it off would seem like the other option. But I know myself, I need to start off small with things that I can do easily, regularly otherwise I'l just have a really busy day or my migraine would act up or what not and I'd skip it, saying ''it'l come tomorrow'' and then after that, missing 1 day won't matter and I'l miss more and more till I don't do it all anymore.

So basically: Exercise regularly, focussing on burning (belly)fat, start out small.

Any possible exercises, regimes or something?:smallredface:

[Haruki-kun]

Dairy was never meant for human consumption and while it does have some things in it that are healthy, overall it can cause a lot of trouble.

False. Dairy is actually pretty healthy. The amount of protein in Milk is hard to find elsewhere, and if you drink skim milk only, you're obtaining lean protein. The argument against dairy is that we're the only animals in the world that consume it at an adult age, and the only animals in the world that drink another animal's milk. I counter this argument by pointing out that we're the only animals in the world that do a lot of things.

If you do some research, you'll find people advocating for both sides of the argument. I, personally, would rather not remove such a good source of protein from my diet.


New years resolutions!:smalleek:

I'm a 18 year old guy who's 161 CM long and who weighs 59 kilos.
I have some muscles in my arms and legs, for example I can lift and carry people/objects of around 100 kilos and cycle regularly. The cycling isn't much, only around 5,8 km/day. For the rest, I don't exercise much except the rare case of rafting, which I love...but considering my country is rather flat.:smalltongue:

I'm a bit on the broad side, which doesn't bother me, why I want to exercise is mainly to get rid of my ahem beerbelly.

Eating ridicilously healthy is not my thing, heck, let me tell you a weird thing. I've eaten and exercised the same amounts and kinds the last past two years, except that I've drank more alcohol and I've lost 6 KG, which is really...odd...
So exercising it off would seem like the other option. But I know myself, I need to start off small with things that I can do easily, regularly otherwise I'l just have a really busy day or my migraine would act up or what not and I'd skip it, saying ''it'l come tomorrow'' and then after that, missing 1 day won't matter and I'l miss more and more till I don't do it all anymore.

So basically: Exercise regularly, focussing on burning (belly)fat, start out small.

Any possible exercises, regimes or something?:smallredface:

I'm gonna suggest you get yourself to a gym. Best place to start. The most important thing isn't starting a regime, but sticking to it. If your regime says "go four times a week", then don't go three times and say you're just too tired the last day.

Since we're here:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs

Here's some novice programs. Add some cardio to those about 3 times a week. That aside... I really recommend focusing on your diet a little more. It's a lot easier to achieve your goals through diet and exercise than by pure diet.

[Spiryt]

False. Dairy is actually pretty healthy. The amount of protein in Milk is hard to find elsewhere, and if you drink skim milk only, you're obtaining lean protein. The argument against dairy is that we're the only animals in the world that consume it at an adult age, and the only animals in the world that drink another animal's milk. I counter this argument by pointing out that we're the only animals in the world that do a lot of things.

If you do some research, you'll find people advocating for both sides of the argument. I, personally, would rather not remove such a good source of protein from my diet.



A lot of this stuff that only people do isn't indeed very healthy for them at all, starting with wars and ending with cigarettes. :smallwink:

I like diary stuff a lot, and it's indeed good source of calories with protein, fat etc. without much carbs and (usually) harmful additions, but still it's on it's own rather alien to all naturally edible things, and thus not very easy to process.

I eat a lot of quark with cream because I love it, but I often feel somehow heavy after.

[Warlawk]

False. Dairy is actually pretty healthy. The amount of protein in Milk is hard to find elsewhere, and if you drink skim milk only, you're obtaining lean protein. The argument against dairy is that we're the only animals in the world that consume it at an adult age, and the only animals in the world that drink another animal's milk. I counter this argument by pointing out that we're the only animals in the world that do a lot of things.

If you do some research, you'll find people advocating for both sides of the argument. I, personally, would rather not remove such a good source of protein from my diet.


Let me use the bold function to accentuate a couple things in my post.


Dairy was never meant for human consumption and while it does have some things in it that are healthy, overall it can cause a lot of trouble.

There are good things in dairy. I agree with that and I said so right in my first post. I also never said it was universally bad. I said it can cause a lot of trouble. It can cause a lot of trouble for people usually because they've had so much dairy in their lives that they've given themselves a minor sensitivity to it. It's a matter of moderating your intake, and most people simply don't do that, and it can cause problems.

I was not specific enough in my original post, and this is purely anecdotal. I know there is research out there and I also know I have not looked into it enough to really talk too much about. My statement comes from my own life and the experiences of people I know personally. Moderating dairy intake is very important to proper health from this standpoint.

[Haruki-kun]

When people say that "it was never meant for human consumption" I get a little edgy. That being said, if I misunderstood, I apologize.

[Warlawk]

When people say that "it was never meant for human consumption" I get a little edgy. That being said, if I misunderstood, I apologize.

Well... it's not meant for human consumption, it's meant for baby cows. That doesn't stop it from being tasty though, and most of the things humans eat weren't meant for human consumption, it's just a matter of how well our bodies tolerate them. No need to apologize, I just wanted to be more clear in what I was trying to say. :smallsmile:

[Cristo Meyers]

Any possible exercises, regimes or something?:smallredface:

Not entirely sure how much further you have to go at about, what, 5 ft 3 and 135 lbs. Or rather, I'm not sure how much of the 'easy' weight you have left to burn.

Unfortunately, there's no way to target a particular area for fat burning, but cardio will burn off the belly fat. Might take a while, but if you can start a diet and stick to it it'll come off.

Personally I think starting a diet and sticking to it is probably the most important thing. All the exercise in the world won't matter much if you're taking in more than you're putting out. Look at labels, watch calories. You'll want a trainer or doctor to give you a daily calorie intake to go by since it's something that's really going to be different for everyone. I target about 1750, but I'm 5 ft 9-ish and around 165-168 pounds.

Think about some simple things you can do that'll cut down the number of calories. Sometimes it's as simple as 'switch out french fries with broccoli' (upwards of 250 calories less) or 'drink one less soda in a day' (around 140 calories)

[Haruki-kun]

Start out small. Cut out soda, first. Just like that, no more soda. Drink water.

Move on when you feel ready. Cut out junk food. Drop the chips and the candy.

Move on. Cut out fast food. If you go to a fast food place, get a salad, or at least avoid the fries and the soda. Subway is still OK.

[Erloas]

Well... it's not meant for human consumption, it's meant for baby cows. That doesn't stop it from being tasty though, and most of the things humans eat weren't meant for human consumption, it's just a matter of how well our bodies tolerate them. No need to apologize, I just wanted to be more clear in what I was trying to say. :smallsmile:

The question is what does "meant for human consumption" really mean? You think a cow was born thinking, you know, I think I'm designed to be eaten by a human. Or mushrooms, some are perfectly fine and others will kill you, obviously the ones meant for human consumption are the ones that don't kill you. Its a given that the design of many fruits are to be eaten as to carry the seeds away. However we eat all sorts of spicy foods that got that way specifically to try and keep things from eating them.

When you really think about it, the only things meant for human consumption, are processed foods, because they are the only things that were "meant" for anything at all.

Of course there is also some talk of certain cultural backgrounds being more or less likely to have food allergies, and simply being able to handle certain foods better. Seeing as how historical changes in diet in the last 3000 years is probably more important then what it was 10000 years ago, I doubt there is a universal "best diet."

[Dallas-Dakota]

Not entirely sure how much further you have to go at about, what, 5 ft 3 and 135 lbs. Or rather, I'm not sure how much of the 'easy' weight you have left to burn.
That's what I'm afraid of, I know I'm at a healthy weight, it's just that my body has chosen to store it in a way that's not very attractive or good for self-confidence.


Unfortunately, there's no way to target a particular area for fat burning, but cardio will burn off the belly fat. Might take a while, but if you can start a diet and stick to it it'll come off. Hmm, cardio it is then. Let's hope muscle will replace the burned off fat to replace weight then. Muscle is heavier anyway.


Think about some simple things you can do that'll cut down the number of calories. Sometimes it's as simple as 'switch out french fries with broccoli' (upwards of 250 calories less) or 'drink one less soda in a day' (around 140 calories)
Doing both this last quote and Haruki's toghetter, since they match pretty well.

Start out small. Cut out soda, first. Just like that, no more soda. Drink water.

Move on when you feel ready. Cut out junk food. Drop the chips and the candy.

Move on. Cut out fast food. If you go to a fast food place, get a salad, or at least avoid the fries and the soda. Subway is still OK.
Actually already never drink soda, drink milk, lemonade and applejuice usually.
Almost never eat candy, chips on the rare occasion. My consumption of cookies though. >.>

I do eat french fries once a week though, don't know if it matters but it is home-fried.
Also no idea if it matters, but I don't drink caffeine.

On doctors and gyms, it's pretty simple:
I don't have money for them.:smallsigh:
So that's what I forgot. ><'' it's really preferred if you need no equipment to do the exercises. Squats, chin-ups, etc.
I do have a hometrainer or a cycle available for exercise. Also would jogging be good on the fat burning?

If I do go to a gym, I'l most certainly follow your link, since it looks good.(or see if you get a free beginning trainer as you sometimes get with a starting gym-membership)

I'l start trying to count calories and what not though.

How does this sound? Do this every other day and increase crunches by 5x every week?

5x chin ups
5x crunches
15x push ups

Though two of those do focus a lot on the arms, it seems like they do generally well for fat burning.

[llamamushroom]

@Dallas: Those are great exercises for increasing strength, and certainly could help you lose weight. On the other hand, if losing fat is your entire purpose, then those may not be the best option - cardiovascular exercise is the best, and you brought up the easiest option for it in your post.

Jogging is awesome, comparatively inexpensive, and you can very quickly build up an addiction to the endorphins released by doing it, which will make you want to do it more. I'd say alternate between your current planned regimen and a jog/brisk walk. A couple of kms (or one or two miles) every second day, increasing as time goes by, should have a good effect. Just remember to stretch before and after!

Edit: I'd also add something for the legs in your strength exercises there, if I were you. Squats, perhaps?

[Liffguard]

That's what I'm afraid of, I know I'm at a healthy weight, it's just that my body has chosen to store it in a way that's not very attractive or good for self-confidence.

Hmm, cardio it is then. Let's hope muscle will replace the burned off fat to replace weight then. Muscle is heavier anyway.


Doing both this last quote and Haruki's toghetter, since they match pretty well.

Actually already never drink soda, drink milk, lemonade and applejuice usually.
Almost never eat candy, chips on the rare occasion. My consumption of cookies though. >.>

I do eat french fries once a week though, don't know if it matters but it is home-fried.
Also no idea if it matters, but I don't drink caffeine.

On doctors and gyms, it's pretty simple:
I don't have money for them.:smallsigh:
So that's what I forgot. ><'' it's really preferred if you need no equipment to do the exercises. Squats, chin-ups, etc.
I do have a hometrainer or a cycle available for exercise. Also would jogging be good on the fat burning?

If I do go to a gym, I'l most certainly follow your link, since it looks good.(or see if you get a free beginning trainer as you sometimes get with a starting gym-membership)

I'l start trying to count calories and what not though.

How does this sound? Do this every other day and increase crunches by 5x every week?

5x chin ups
5x crunches
15x push ups

Though two of those do focus a lot on the arms, it seems like they do generally well for fat burning.

Try www.bodyweightculture.com. They've got loads of workouts using no equipment at all. At the very least you want to throw some squats in there or variations like jump squats or tuck squats. And burpees never go amiss in a bodyweight workout.

[Newman]

Anyone know any tricks for rope-jumping, skipping, dreaming-to-fly-over-the-rainbow-so-high, whatever it's called? I'm having a ''lot'' of trouble synchronizing those jumps... I be literally trippin' here...

[Haruki-kun]

Let's see...


Also no idea if it matters, but I don't drink caffeine.

Caffeine is actually pretty good for weight loss, but it's not imperative so... no difference.


On doctors and gyms, it's pretty simple:
I don't have money for them.:smallsigh:
So that's what I forgot. ><'' it's really preferred if you need no equipment to do the exercises. Squats, chin-ups, etc.
I do have a hometrainer or a cycle available for exercise. Also would jogging be good on the fat burning?

If I do go to a gym, I'l most certainly follow your link, since it looks good.(or see if you get a free beginning trainer as you sometimes get with a starting gym-membership)

Well, then I suggest you check out that link Liffguard posted. It seems like you need to make an account to view the forum, though...


5x chin ups
5x crunches
15x push ups

Though two of those do focus a lot on the arms, it seems like they do generally well for fat burning.

Chin-ups actually focus a lot on the back, and pushups are mostly focused on the chest. My advice is to mix it up: Do several different types of push-ups, with arms wide open, with both hands together, on your fingertips, etc. Do switch chin-ups for pull-ups every other workout day. Do Leg raises on top of just crunches. Do some bench dips, all you need is a stable chair or ledge or something like that.

And add bodyweight squats, you're ignoring your legs completely.

Do at least 30 minutes of cardio 3 times a week. This is actually my weakness right here, I don't do enough cardio, but I know I'm doin it wrong, so my personal challenge is to do more cardio.


Anyone know any tricks for rope-jumping, skipping, dreaming-to-fly-over-the-rainbow-so-high, whatever it's called? I'm having a ''lot'' of trouble synchronizing those jumps... I be literally trippin' here...

Make sure the rope is long enough. If you're tall, a short rope may cause you problems. Keep your hands close to your body. If you extend them outwards, the radius of the circle the rope makes will decrease, and you could trip more easily. And practice a lot.

[Erloas]

Anyone know any tricks for rope-jumping, skipping, dreaming-to-fly-over-the-rainbow-so-high, whatever it's called? I'm having a ''lot'' of trouble synchronizing those jumps... I be literally trippin' here...

Well go to an elementary school and hang out with the 12 year old girls and they should be able to teach you the ways of jumping rope and skipping... On second thought, maybe thats not such a good plan, not the least of which is that probably a lot of them aren't even doing that any more.

We jump rope a little bit in the kickboxing class and most people aren't any good at it. The one instructor is pretty good because she's been practicing in the classes for decades, and another is because jumping/bouncing seems to be her natural state. (she is pretty funny, her kids came with her to one class and when she asked if they wanted to come again they asked "are you going to bounce around a lot? that is so annoying." And she said when she was a little kid she bounced around so much her parents got her a pogo stick.)

It takes a lot of rhythm to jump rope, and most people loose that after they grow up if you don't do something to keep rhythm. In some cases music with a strong beat will help, but if you don't manage to sync the rope up with the beat in the first place then it will be even more difficult. I'm still not any good at it, but I've gotten better, but I still can't do much more then a basic jump. It mostly just takes practice if you want to get to the point of being able to do anything more then just a basic pattern.

[Newman]

Well go to an elementary school and hang out with the 12 year old girls and they should be able to teach you the ways of jumping rope and skipping... On second thought, maybe thats not such a good plan, not the least of which is that probably a lot of them aren't even doing that any more.

We jump rope a little bit in the kickboxing class and most people aren't any good at it. The one instructor is pretty good because she's been practicing in the classes for decades, and another is because jumping/bouncing seems to be her natural state. (she is pretty funny, her kids came with her to one class and when she asked if they wanted to come again they asked "are you going to bounce around a lot? that is so annoying." And she said when she was a little kid she bounced around so much her parents got her a pogo stick.)

It takes a lot of rhythm to jump rope, and most people loose that after they grow up if you don't do something to keep rhythm. In some cases music with a strong beat will help, but if you don't manage to sync the rope up with the beat in the first place then it will be even more difficult. I'm still not any good at it, but I've gotten better, but I still can't do much more then a basic jump. It mostly just takes practice if you want to get to the point of being able to do anything more then just a basic pattern.

Heh, kids these days only play console games... So, I thought it was me that was an uncoordinated bastard, but it turns out I'm not so bad, which is really cool. The amazing part is that I'm growing in coordination and rhythm with age, rather than the opposite (tai-chi, chi-kung and pilates have had a lot to do with it... anyone here does those?).

As for diets, elaborate products have a lot going on for them. Case in point, again, whey protein. Also, lipotropic fat burners have changed my life.

Royal jelly and brewer's yeast are nice too.

[Tyndmyr]

How does this sound? Do this every other day and increase crunches by 5x every week?

5x chin ups
5x crunches
15x push ups

Though two of those do focus a lot on the arms, it seems like they do generally well for fat burning.

It's a start. I would probably do multiple sets(three sets of whatever I can handle easily at first, that will likely increase over time), followed by protein consumption. I'd probably also incorporate some sort of leg exercise. Burpees are aright, squats are good, lunges and leg lifts are some more options.

Some sort of cardio might also be good, if you can work it in, but no point getting overwhelmed, anything is better than nothing.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Did

15 x push ups
15 x crunches
10 x bench dips
10 x fingertip push ups
(half a minute break)
10 x pulls ups
5 x leg raises
5 x diamond(hands toghetter) push ups

Today, procrastinated till the end of the day, was out of breath after and a bit red, not to mention that I can feel it in my stomach, 20 minutes after. But it does feel kinda good.:smallsmile:

Need to look into Burpees and lunges.
Might want to alternate chin ups and pulls ups, as you suggested Haruki.
Need to find a proper weight for leg raises instead of a 1 1/2 litre bottle of mead.:smalltongue:

As far as my extra research(on top of your great advice, thenk you guys!) has shown me that pull ups and chin ups really don't matter that much except that pull ups is more focussed on the back and less on the biceps. So I think I'l keep pull ups in the what I hope will become a routine.

Squats: I don't have proper weights, and I don't have money for them...I'd like to do them though, so do you have to have proper weights or do you just have to have 2 balanced(So you don't overstress the wrist?) equal(weight) things? Because I can start squats then.

[Liffguard]

Did
Need to look into Burpees and lunges.
[snip]
Squats: I don't have proper weights, and I don't have money for them...I'd like to do them though, so do you have to have proper weights or do you just have to have 2 balanced(So you don't overstress the wrist?) equal(weight) things? Because I can start squats then.

Burpees. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oXadjFAlQ) Do them. They rock.

As for squats, doing them with weight is obviously best, but bodyweight will make a good start. TBH, it's worth practicing them with just bodyweight anyway so you'll be sure to get your form right.

[Haruki-kun]

Did

15 x push ups
15 x crunches
10 x bench dips
10 x fingertip push ups
(half a minute break)
10 x pulls ups
5 x leg raises
5 x diamond(hands toghetter) push ups

Today, procrastinated till the end of the day, was out of breath after and a bit red, not to mention that I can feel it in my stomach, 20 minutes after. But it does feel kinda good.:smallsmile:

Need to look into Burpees and lunges.
Might want to alternate chin ups and pulls ups, as you suggested Haruki.
Need to find a proper weight for leg raises instead of a 1 1/2 litre bottle of mead.:smalltongue:

As far as my extra research(on top of your great advice, thenk you guys!) has shown me that pull ups and chin ups really don't matter that much except that pull ups is more focussed on the back and less on the biceps. So I think I'l keep pull ups in the what I hope will become a routine.

Squats: I don't have proper weights, and I don't have money for them...I'd like to do them though, so do you have to have proper weights or do you just have to have 2 balanced(So you don't overstress the wrist?) equal(weight) things? Because I can start squats then.

You can still do them without weights, it's just that then it becomes more Cardio than Strength Training. I'm not sure what you mean by 2 balanced things or proper weights... Squats don't stress the wrist at all...

[Cristo Meyers]

Burpees. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oXadjFAlQ) Do them. They rock.

As for squats, doing them with weight is obviously best, but bodyweight will make a good start. TBH, it's worth practicing them with just bodyweight anyway so you'll be sure to get your form right.

Seconded. Burpees are a great all-around exercise and practicing squats with just your bodyweight is definitely a good idea. Squats are easy to do wrong without even realizing it (your knees shouldn't go past your toes).

I can't speak to using something other than weights or medicine/kettle-balls for squats. In theory I suppose it could work, but it's not something I'd want to test out. Just seems like asking for trouble.


I'm not sure what you mean by 2 balanced things or proper weights... Squats don't stress the wrist at all...

Barbell and bodyweight won't, but if you're using dumbbells then it could since you'd be holding the dumbbells down at your sides like when you do a dumbbell lunge. May not be working the wrists in particular, but after a while they will start to feel the weight.

[Newman]

Burpees and all stuff that involves moving quickly while horizontal (Capoeira, Hip Hop...)= instant heart attack. The slowest Capoeira is the most brutal...

[Liffguard]

Burpees and all stuff that involves moving quickly while horizontal (Capoeira, Hip Hop...)= instant heart attack. The slowest Capoeira is the most brutal...

Sorry, you've lost me. :smallconfused:

[Newman]

What I mean is that I, and most people I know, personally, find it much more exhausting to do exercises that involve being very close to the ground for a prolongued period of time while moving dynamically, to the point that we find that pulling jumps and acrobatics and flying kicks and the like is far less exhausting and straining than, say, doing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF9lfOAWTxo).

Looks slow, huh?

[shadow_archmagi]

Well... it's not meant for human consumption, it's meant for baby cows. That doesn't stop it from being tasty though, and most of the things humans eat weren't meant for human consumption, it's just a matter of how well our bodies tolerate them. No need to apologize, I just wanted to be more clear in what I was trying to say. :smallsmile:

I like to think that the universe was designed with the intent of me eating things

[Haruki-kun]

I like to think that the universe was designed with the intent of me eating things

Listen to this man, he is an Oracle of Wisdom.

[Newman]

Many people are aware of the Weak and Strong Anthropic Principles. The Weak One says, basically, that it was jolly amazing of the universe to be constructed in such a way that humans could evolve to a point where they make a living in, for example, universities, while the Strong One says that, on the contrary, the whole point of the universe was that humans should not only work in universities but also write for huge sums books with words like ‘Cosmic’ and ‘Chaos’ in the titles.*
The UU Professor of Anthropics had developed the Special and Inevitable Anthropic Principle, which was that the entire reason for the existence of the universe was the eventual evolution of the UU Professor of Anthropics. But this was only a formal statement of the theory which absolutely everyone, with only some minor details of a ‘Fill in name here’ nature, secretly believes to be true.


* And they are correct. The universe clearly operates for the benefit of humanity. This can be readily seen from the convenient way the sun comes up in the morning, when people are ready to start the day.
Terry Pratchett

And now, enough with that joke.

[Haruki-kun]

Back on topic, someone on reddit just posted this article. It's pretty funny and sarcastic, but it's also mostly true:

27 rules of conquering the gym (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203471004577140900388728374.html?K EYWORDS=27+rules)

[Maelstrom]

Woohoo, finally got my fitocracy account going... if anyone on it is interested, I'm Maalstrom there (grrr for names already being taken ;) )

[Qaera]

So I'm starting out the C25K thing I saw here with my sister today, let's see how this "exercise" thing works out.

~ ♅

[Haruki-kun]

For anyone who still wants to join Fitocracy, I just discovered the Fit in the Playground group has 100 invites, just follow this link. (http://ftcy.co/uc7jIy)

Join us, guys, don't let January beat you! :smallsmile:

[THAC0]

Just a quick update now that we've completed our move.

I slacked out a bit while we were moving, but now I'm back on track. I've strengthened my knee a lot so I'm running 3 miles 3x week on asphalt and I haven't felt a twinge from it. I'm also doing a lot at home as far as crunches, push ups, lunges, squats, and dumbbell stuff goes. I need to get some more varied weights though, seeing as in about three months I may have to be lifting 100lbs onto my husbands back and carrying 70 myself for a few miles!

[Liffguard]

My training recently has been getting a bit, well, stagnant. I've been feeling pretty bored and listless with my usual activities so I decided to start a brand new sport completely from scratch. I've booked myself a rock climbing course for the start of February. Don't ask me why climbing specifically. It looks like hard work and a lot of fun, plus heights freak me out a bit so there's an element of adrenaline and facing down fear.

[THAC0]

My training recently has been getting a bit, well, stagnant. I've been feeling pretty bored and listless with my usual activities so I decided to start a brand new sport completely from scratch. I've booked myself a rock climbing course for the start of February. Don't ask me why climbing specifically. It looks like hard work and a lot of fun, plus heights freak me out a bit so there's an element of adrenaline and facing down fear.

I did some rappelling last year and it was AWESOME. The second-most fun thing I've ever done (first place going to dog mushing). Have a blast!

[Tyndmyr]

My training recently has been getting a bit, well, stagnant. I've been feeling pretty bored and listless with my usual activities so I decided to start a brand new sport completely from scratch. I've booked myself a rock climbing course for the start of February. Don't ask me why climbing specifically. It looks like hard work and a lot of fun, plus heights freak me out a bit so there's an element of adrenaline and facing down fear.

It's pretty fun, really. I'm a member of a climbing gym, and while I admit I don't go all that often, whenever I can convince someone to go, it's always a blast.

[danzibr]

Alright I have a question. What are good workouts I can do at home (with little equipment) to strengthen my lower back?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Went to Barcelona, Spain for a week with college.

Well that ruined my new years resolutions. xD
I did walk a lot though, but yeah....Let's see if somewhere this week I can get started again.

[Liffguard]

Alright I have a question. What are good workouts I can do at home (with little equipment) to strengthen my lower back?

It's hard to really strengthen the lower back without any kit at all. You can try back extensions but they don't really have the resistance or range of motion or resistance to significantly improve strength. Inverted rows on the backs of two chairs will also work the lower back, but it's not the primary focus of the exercise.

A good piece of kit to get would be a kettlebell. They can be a little pricey for a good one, but once you have it you can use it for a massive variety of exercises and it will last the rest of your life. Good exercises for the lower back (or the posterior chain in general) with a kettlebell are deadlifts, swings, turkish get-ups, cleans etc.

[Erloas]

Alright I have a question. What are good workouts I can do at home (with little equipment) to strengthen my lower back?

Lower back is actually pretty easy sans equipment. Pilates and Yoga are both great and take little to no equipment. I don't know the names of many of the moves, but looking up exercises from both should give you a lot to go with. And actually I can't think of any lower back exercises that use weights, though some can add weights once you're already strong.

Planks are good, side planks, normal planks, and quite a few other variations. And of course the normal push-up is pretty good too, as it is essentially a plank.

[Liffguard]

Planks are good, side planks, normal planks, and quite a few other variations. And of course the normal push-up is pretty good too, as it is essentially a plank.

Plank is for the anterior chain, not posterior.

[Erloas]

Plank is for the anterior chain, not posterior.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the plank is good for both. Its a great all around core exercise, which includes the lower back. I know its talked about mostly with stomach muscles, but it does lower back as well.

[Cristo Meyers]

Does anyone have any recommendations for an exercise to do in place of Dumbbell Lunges? I never really enjoyed lunges much in general and they're really starting to wear on me. Kinda want something to change things up before I start to get to really bad levels of burnout.

[Haruki-kun]

I pretty much just do Squats, Leg Press and Deadlifts

[Liffguard]

Does anyone have any recommendations for an exercise to do in place of Dumbbell Lunges? I never really enjoyed lunges much in general and they're really starting to wear on me. Kinda want something to change things up before I start to get to really bad levels of burnout.

Squats and deadlifts. If you want a challenge, maybe start working towards some pistols.

[Frozen_Feet]

What would be good, protein heavy foods to eat while training? I really need to put on some weight, and the most reasonable way I can think of doing so is to tack on a lot of extra protein to my diet.

Also, anyone know of a good brand of protein powder (or the like) to use for after-workout drinks?

[Erloas]

Well eggs are a pretty standard high protein choice.

Also plain no-fat greek yogurt is something like 70% protein (with the rest being carbs). The non-plain versions tend to have a lot more sugars in them. I usually eat mine with dried fruit and granola/nuts mixed in, adds more carbs and fat, but I think it makes it a lot better, I don't really like the texture and taste of it plain.

Nuts are also pretty good, they tend to be a higher in fats, but its almost always the good types of fat. They aren't really "high" protein, but they've got a lot more then many other things. Even peanut butter, if you get the natural kinds, is pretty good. And of course there is also almond butter, cashew butter... and probably some other ones as well.

[polity4life]

I have a question on push ups.

The traditional form of push up with an open hand hurts my wrists terribly, always has. To work around that, I have used either free weights, some other device, or have simply reverted to doing push ups with a closed fist to remove that strain.

My question is how should I orient my hands to exactly replicate a traditional push up. If I'm on my fists or using free weights and I position my hands in the same way as I would do a pull up (knuckles pointing towards my head), it works my shoulders more. If I turn my hands 90 degrees (knuckles facing away from my body), I work my biceps more.

Should I just mix it up and do sets of both or does it really matter? Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Warlawk]

I'm curious regarding fasting. It's something I've been tossing around in my head for a bit now and I just wanted to see if there's anything I need to be aware of in regards to working out and fasting.

I'm not talking about a long term fast, but a simple 24 hour day fast. Probably once or twice a week. Should I avoid doing a fast and a workout on the same day? If I work out and have my usual chocolate milk/whey protein recovery drink would that be sufficient, or would I be neutering my results by doing that?

I'm not asking for medical advice etc, just specific info regarding the interactions between working out and fasting. Thanks for any info!

[Haruki-kun]

I'm curious regarding fasting. It's something I've been tossing around in my head for a bit now and I just wanted to see if there's anything I need to be aware of in regards to working out and fasting.

I'm not talking about a long term fast, but a simple 24 hour day fast. Probably once or twice a week. Should I avoid doing a fast and a workout on the same day? If I work out and have my usual chocolate milk/whey protein recovery drink would that be sufficient, or would I be neutering my results by doing that?

I'm not asking for medical advice etc, just specific info regarding the interactions between working out and fasting. Thanks for any info!

This is, in fact, a terrible idea. Seriously, fasting is not the way to get fit. Healthy eating is. Even more so if you're working out.

When you don't eat, your body goes into something that some online communities have named "starvation mode". You'll lose water and muscle mass before your body starts digging up the fat. Your body doesn't understand "I'm not receiving any food today, so I'd better ration". It doesn't even understand "No dinner, but that's OK because we had a big lunch." What your body understands is "CODE RED, WE HAVE NO FOOD!"

Oh, and having your whey on a day when you eat nothing else does next to nothing. Your body won't use it to build muscle, it'll just break it down.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm curious regarding fasting. It's something I've been tossing around in my head for a bit now and I just wanted to see if there's anything I need to be aware of in regards to working out and fasting.

I'm not talking about a long term fast, but a simple 24 hour day fast. Probably once or twice a week. Should I avoid doing a fast and a workout on the same day? If I work out and have my usual chocolate milk/whey protein recovery drink would that be sufficient, or would I be neutering my results by doing that?

I would honestly just skip the fast altogether. If you have too big of a daily calorie deficit, your body gets stupid. If trying to lose weight, you are MUCH better off with a consistent, even calorie deficit every day.

My weight loss plan this summer ditched about 20 pounds for me, and they didn't come back. It was nothing special, I just ran a 700 cal deficit daily. I ate crap like pizza and stuff, but spaced throughout the day, and in small portions. If I wanted to eat more, I worked out more. It works. That said, it's hard to maximize weight loss and muscle gain at the same time. Decide what your priorities are, and work from there.

[Cristo Meyers]

I pretty much just do Squats, Leg Press and Deadlifts

Yeah, I do squats and leg presses as well, rounding it out with some dumbbell calf raises. I guess the lunges were just kinda redundant.

I need to look into Deadlifts...


My weight loss plan this summer ditched about 20 pounds for me, and they didn't come back. It was nothing special, I just ran a 700 cal deficit daily. I ate crap like pizza and stuff, but spaced throughout the day, and in small portions. If I wanted to eat more, I worked out more. It works. That said, it's hard to maximize weight loss and muscle gain at the same time. Decide what your priorities are, and work from there.

I can second that. I did pretty much the same thing to lose 15 pounds in about 8 weeks. Portion control and eating right are what's going to work, not fasting.

[Erloas]

I have read that there are some benefits to fasting. Though at this point I can't remember what they are supposed to be.

And just one day is not going to cause your body to go into "starvation mode." But twice a week, even once a week, is way too much. The vague bits I do remember of the benefits, body cleansing mostly, you shouldn't need to do it more then maybe once a month. And even then I wouldn't do it on a day you were planning on doing much, and it could probably throw off a recovery day too... maybe if you had a longer recovery break coming up for some reason.

[Ceric]

And just one day is not going to cause your body to go into "starvation mode."

I've heard that you shouldn't go 12 hours without eating. Hearsay, but hearsay from someone currently in a university nutrition class.

[Tyndmyr]

I have read that there are some benefits to fasting. Though at this point I can't remember what they are supposed to be.

And just one day is not going to cause your body to go into "starvation mode." But twice a week, even once a week, is way too much. The vague bits I do remember of the benefits, body cleansing mostly, you shouldn't need to do it more then maybe once a month. And even then I wouldn't do it on a day you were planning on doing much, and it could probably throw off a recovery day too... maybe if you had a longer recovery break coming up for some reason.

Most "body cleansing" stuff is terribly faddish advice with little to no actual medical evidence. You'd be better off eating sensibly for that day than not eating at all.

[Cristo Meyers]

So I appear to have plateaued in my weightlifting...

For the record, I'm about 165 lbs and so far my bench-press seems to have hit a ceiling at 125, bicep curls at 45, squats at (probably, I have yet to test my max on them) 180. And those are the max, so far the best I can do for a full set of 15 is 105/25/and +/- 135.

Is it possible I'm just getting close to the most my current amount of exercise can do for me?

[Erloas]

Plateauing is a bit hard to figure. Sometimes a change will fix it and sometimes it just takes time for your body to really "catch up" and get ready for the next spurt of building. Which can be seen in kids, where they won't grow much for a while then shoot up then repeat the cycle.
I know for me I've plateaued a few times and started gaining again (mostly in endurance, as thats what I'm working towards most) sometimes with a change and sometimes it just happens on its own. Its usually taken at least a few weeks to hit the next step for me.

[Haruki-kun]

when I plateau I just change my routine. *glances at your Fitocracy page* And I think you could do with changing yours. If I were you I'd try a better bodypart split. I see you doing Chest and Biceps on the same day and that's usually not a very good idea.

Also, try doing more weight for less reps. Like... try doing sets of 5 reps, but with enough weight to make you FEEL those 5 reps. Make it so that those 5 reps are harder than 15 reps with less weight. Best way to increase strength.

Remember:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/trainingemphasis.png

[Cristo Meyers]

when I plateau I just change my routine. *glances at your Fitocracy page* And I think you could do with changing yours. If I were you I'd try a better bodypart split. I see you doing Chest and Biceps on the same day and that's usually not a very good idea.

Also, try doing more weight for less reps. Like... try doing sets of 5 reps, but with enough weight to make you FEEL those 5 reps. Make it so that those 5 reps are harder than 15 reps with less weight. Best way to increase strength.

Remember:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/trainingemphasis.png

Hmm...maybe I'll take out the bicep curls and chest press and replace them with lat pulldowns and chest fly...then it's chest/back on that day. Then switch in bicep curls and tricep extensions on the days I usually work my lower body...

[Crow]

I would just do a chest day, back day, arm day, and legs day, in that order. Completely blast one group only each day.

When you plateau, increase the weight and start working in sets of 1, 3, and 5 reps, switching that number up each week. Write down weights used, and increase weight each time you do that many reps.

For example, I do 5 reps at 235, so next time I do sets of 5, I go up to 245.

But when I do sets of 1, I can do 275, so next time, I do 285 (or try).

Also, do every movement explosively to burst plateaus.

[Cristo Meyers]

So I switched things up a little: higher weight, 5 reps for 5 sets...

Apparently I can squat 195 for 5 (and next time I'll try more) and do 330 on the leg press machine.

...I have a feeling I'm going to be paying for that in the morning...


I would just do a chest day, back day, arm day, and legs day, in that order. Completely blast one group only each day.


My main concern with doing weights 4 times a week is time. I only have 45 minutes max in the gym each day, 5 days a week. I don't want to regain the weight I've lost because I'm sacrificing cardio and I definitely don't want to have to go back to doing work-outs at home after work. It's just not a routine I can maintain without getting really sick of working out.

[Crow]

So I switched things up a little: higher weight, 5 reps for 5 sets...

Apparently I can squat 195 for 5 (and next time I'll try more) and do 330 on the leg press machine.

...I have a feeling I'm going to be paying for that in the morning...



My main concern with doing weights 4 times a week is time. I only have 45 minutes max in the gym each day, 5 days a week. I don't want to regain the weight I've lost because I'm sacrificing cardio and I definitely don't want to have to go back to doing work-outs at home after work. It's just not a routine I can maintain without getting really sick of working out.

One day of cardio per week is plenty, if you're not training for an endurance event of some sort, especially if you're doing 45 minutes a pop. 45 minutes of going big on weights burns plenty of calories, so if you're doing 45/5/week, you shouldn't need to worry about regaining your weight, provided your diet isn't complete ****.

[Erloas]

I wouldn't agree with that. I would say if you are working out for general fitness (which I think is the case) then cardio is more important then weights.
If the main goal is build strength then yeah, more weight lifting is best.
I would really worry too much about the plateau unless it lasts for at least a month or more, when starting up you'll reach that about 80% body weight fairly quickly and easily and it takes quite a bit of dedicated training to get past that.

[Haruki-kun]

'fraid I'm siding with Crow on this one. Weights are an excellent workout, they activate one's hormones, burn fat, and build muscle. With more muscle, more fat is burned just to maintain it.

In other words, I hold the opposite view. Cardio is very important, but it shouldn't be the focus unless you want to focus on it for specific purposes, such as competition.

[Erloas]

Yes, more muscle burns more calories, but have you actually ran the numbers for what that means? You build 10lbs of muscle and you burn something like 10 calories a day more, which is almost meaninglessly small, its the difference of like 6 months to burn an extra lbs worth of calories. And 10 lbs of muscle is not that easy to build.
Burning fat and activating hormones is done with any type of exercise.
Most cardio is also a full body movement and activates a lot of muscle groups to at least some extent. It also activates your biggest muscles, your legs, for extended periods of time.

For what its worth, when I started working out 5 years ago I was doing more weight lifting and less cardio, and now I'm the opposite. There was about a 2-3 year gap of much less exercise between the two times. I used to be stronger, but not a huge amount so, but I *feel* a lot better, have more energy, weigh less and look better now. And lately, every time I've seemed to plateau, increasing my cardio seems to have broken through it.

And here is this:

That Mayo Clinic offers calorie expenditure estimates for weight training. A 30-minute weight training session burns about 109 calories if you weight 160 lbs. This weight training session burns about 137 calories if you weigh 200 lbs. and 164 calories if you weigh 240 lbs.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/228804-how-many-calories-are-burned-during-30-minutes-of-weight-lifting/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/228804-how-many-calories-are-burned-during-30-minutes-of-weight-lifting/)
and


For a beginning runner, a 12-minute mile is a typical pace. Running a 12-minute mile requires a steady speed of 5 mph. If you weigh 185 pounds, you will burn 355 calories every 30 minutes

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/293530-how-many-calories-are-burned-in-a-30-minute-run/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/293530-how-many-calories-are-burned-in-a-30-minute-run/)
So running burns roughly 3x as many calories in the same period of time as lifting weights, and thats for a beginner runner pace.
You need both, but I would never cut cardio for weight lifting if you're limited on time and looking for general fitness.

[Om]

I injured my shoulder a few months back (too much strain on what I'm going to call the 'front shoulder muscle') and I'm slowly working my way back to fitness. It's a delicate process though: too much weight/effort (using a rubber strap for resistance training ATM) and I worry that I've upset it again, not enough and my recovery is prolonged. Has anyone been through something similar and has any advice?


... That's interesting. I've been getting pain in my knees. Giving up the karate and roller derby are Not Options, but giving up the leg extensions certainly is...

Annoyingly, I was only doing them because I heard weak quadriceps compared to hamstrings could cause knee pain.That's exactly why I do extensions: they strengthen the quads and support the knee caps. If you're worried about putting too much stress on the joints during the exercise then simply start the extension from a higher spot. That is, a position where your feet aren't at a 90 degree angle with your knee

[THAC0]

I injured my shoulder a few months back (too much strain on what I'm going to call the 'front shoulder muscle') and I'm slowly working my way back to fitness. It's a delicate process though: too much weight/effort (using a rubber strap for resistance training ATM) and I worry that I've upset it again, not enough and my recovery is prolonged. Has anyone been through something similar and has any advice?


Had/have a similar issue with my knee. The important part is letting it heal completely before stressing it again. I'm not a doctor of course and this is not medical advice, but the second time I overstressed my knee I waited a long time before using it again and even longer before trying to strengthen it to prevent further problems. So far, so good.

[Crow]

So running burns roughly 3x as many calories in the same period of time as lifting weights, and thats for a beginner runner pace.
You need both, but I would never cut cardio for weight lifting if you're limited on time and looking for general fitness.

That's exactly what I would expect to see from stickman Lance Armstrong's website. :-)

What that fails to mention is that strength and power training continues to burn calories throughout the entire day, after you've finished. Long periods of cardio don't break down muscle in nearly the same way as heavy or intense strength or power training. After a good session of strength or power training, your body can continue to burn calories for hours or even days (if it's particularly intense), as it devotes your body's resources to repairing and strengthening the broken down muscle tissue.

[Tyndmyr]

Hmmm...I find myself in need of a form of cardio that does not utilize the ankle at all, even for support(due to injury). Bonus points if it doesn't require extensive equipment. This kind of throws me, as most cardio I've done uses legs quite heavily.

Suggestions?

[THAC0]

Hmmm...I find myself in need of a form of cardio that does not utilize the ankle at all, even for support(due to injury). Bonus points if it doesn't require extensive equipment. This kind of throws me, as most cardio I've done uses legs quite heavily.

Suggestions?

Swimming? Off the top of my head, anyway.

[Cristo Meyers]

Hmmm...I find myself in need of a form of cardio that does not utilize the ankle at all, even for support(due to injury). Bonus points if it doesn't require extensive equipment. This kind of throws me, as most cardio I've done uses legs quite heavily.

Suggestions?

First thing that springs to mind (and I have no idea how feasible it would be), is a kind of reverse exercise bike. Instead of feet on the pedals you use your hands to crank. I don't see the machine very often, though...

[Erloas]

That's exactly what I would expect to see from stickman Lance Armstrong's website. :-)

What that fails to mention is that strength and power training continues to burn calories throughout the entire day, after you've finished. Long periods of cardio don't break down muscle in nearly the same way as heavy or intense strength or power training. After a good session of strength or power training, your body can continue to burn calories for hours or even days (if it's particularly intense), as it devotes your body's resources to repairing and strengthening the broken down muscle tissue.

Well that just happened to be the site that I found first, I know I've seen similar figures elsewhere.
Its also true that most exercises, especially at higher intensities, causes your body to burn extra calories throughout the day. Its not just weight lifting. Interval training is the big one that gets talked about the most, but other types of cardio as well. Sure a light 1-3 mile walk isn't going to do much, but any exercise done with high intensity will. If you don't think your muscles are being broken down with endurance cardio then you haven't done enough, I know it took me a few days to recover from the half-marathon I ran.

[Tyndmyr]

First thing that springs to mind (and I have no idea how feasible it would be), is a kind of reverse exercise bike. Instead of feet on the pedals you use your hands to crank. I don't see the machine very often, though...

Yeah, there's one of those, at a gym I used to go to...ridiculously far away, though. I wonder how expensive those suckers are...

Thac0, while that's normally an excellent idea, I will unfortunately also not be able to get the ankle wet...can't be involved in any way(post surgery recovery).

[Crow]

Well that just happened to be the site that I found first, I know I've seen similar figures elsewhere.
Its also true that most exercises, especially at higher intensities, causes your body to burn extra calories throughout the day. Its not just weight lifting. Interval training is the big one that gets talked about the most, but other types of cardio as well. Sure a light 1-3 mile walk isn't going to do much, but any exercise done with high intensity will. If you don't think your muscles are being broken down with endurance cardio then you haven't done enough, I know it took me a few days to recover from the half-marathon I ran.

Interval training isn't strictly cardio, which is why that holds true. Interval training is power/explosiveness, which puts it in the Strength/Power catagory I mentioned above.

Given an equal level of intensity, strength/power training will outperform cardio any day. Yeah, you can break down muscle with cardio, but do you really want to run a half-marathon every day? I have a buddy that runs for 2 hours every day (not counting his rest days), which is great for him. But the bottom line is, I can run the same 2 hours with him on 1 day of cardio per week (if that), but am about twice as strong at the same time. Cardio-focused programs pay diminishing returns as you ramp up volume, just like any other training. Then to top it off, my weight is relatively stable if I decide to take a few weeks off of running.

[Haruki-kun]

Exactly. There's a reason why all the hardcore gym people are usually hanging out at the free weight section.

To clarify: We're not saying Cardio is bad. It's very important to do Cardio. Just don't fall for the whole idea that it's preferable to do Cardio and disregard weights..