Borderlands 2

[Triscuitable]

The New-U stations are kind of ambiguous in the series. Rather than think too hard about it, let's go with the MST3K way: Mike couldn't possibly breathe in space, but it's not like it's an issue. It's a video game, guys.



Also, which bosses drop Siren Heads? I want to unlock more of them, but don't know which to kill.

Henry and BNK-3R will drop unique heads. Henry drops hers less frequently than BNK-3Rs, and you might not even get the head you want.

[ex cathedra]

Henry, BNK-3R, [Final Boss], Terramorphous, Vermivorous, any badass enemy, and Geary each drop a unique head. Each is capable of dropping a head for each class, and the dropped head is generally random and not based on the class you're currently playing.

If the New-U is canon, (real spoilers incoming yo) what's the point of killing a boss for a quest if they immediately respawn? What's the motivation? Anyways, it doesn't explain the respawning nature of the myriad non-humanoid enemies a la BNK-3R, Henry, Wilhelm, The Warrior, Terramorphous, etc. "New U is canon" doesn't actually explain anything.

However, if it were canon, why didn't Angel or Jack respawn?

[Legoshrimp]

If the New-U is canon, (real spoilers incoming yo) what's the point of killing a boss for a quest if they immediately respawn? What's the motivation? Anyways, it doesn't explain the respawning nature of the myriad non-humanoid enemies a la BNK-3R, Henry, Wilhelm, The Warrior, Terramorphous, etc. "New U is canon" doesn't actually explain anything.

However, if it were canon, why didn't Angel or Jack respawn?
Ah but they do, but some guy at hyperion decided that they can't charge employees for the service, but saw that it could get out of hand really quickly if they had unlimited respawns so they limited it to only 1 respawn. Obviously only upper management would get free respawns, the regular employees have to pay(hence they keep coming back)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Henry, BNK-3R, [Final Boss], Terramorphous, Vermivorous, any badass enemy, and Geary each drop a unique head. Each is capable of dropping a head for each class, and the dropped head is generally random and not based on the class you're currently playing.

If the New-U is canon, (real spoilers incoming yo) what's the point of killing a boss for a quest if they immediately respawn? What's the motivation? Anyways, it doesn't explain the respawning nature of the myriad non-humanoid enemies a la BNK-3R, Henry, Wilhelm, The Warrior, Terramorphous, etc. "New U is canon" doesn't actually explain anything.

However, if it were canon, why didn't Angel or Jack respawn?

How do you find Vermivorous?

[Neon Knight]

How do you find Vermivorous?

Spoilers ahoy!
Varkids evolve. Larva to adult, adult to badass, badass to superbadass, and then instead of ultimate badass, it will evolve into Vermivorous the Invincible, who is honestly the toughest thing in the game. Tons more HP than Terramorphous.

It can only happen on maps big enough, and there might be other limiting conditions in place that we are not aware of it. It is also very difficult to pull off, as varkids don't evolve unless there are other varkids nearby, and even then their AI can be kind of spotty about it. It is a serious challenge to even get him to spawn.

[thorgrim29]

So.... I just got past the control core angel part, and HOLY CRAP was that a turn for the dramatic. The actual fighting wasn't so hard (level 27 , Moxxie's good touch spawned as a corrosive weapon, flicker is at 8, and I have +22% on corrosion chances and damage, robots melt), but that was so dark it felt like a series of punches, in a funny, lighthearted game. Without going into more spoilers, how far along am I? It feels like roughly 75% from a story perspective but you never know.

[Triscuitable]

You've got just a little bit of the game left. Sawtooth Cauldron, Eridium Blight, the Arid Nexus, and the Vault.

[Cespenar]

Okay, I just had my funniest boss fight yet, against Slagged Bloodwing. Turns out you can dash towards flying opponents with Zer0's Execute. But one dash doesn't cut it since the boss flies fast, so I had to fly after it using dash multiple times midair, all within the 5 seconds you get from Decepti0n. I scored the hit, which was, considering I was a melee-focused Zer0, a pretty hefty one, and as I was falling, I managed to get another hit, which, through the "+500% damage against critically wounded enemies" skill, did some good (tens of?) thousands of damage, killing it.

tl;dr: Zer0 can fly.

[Chen]

So has anyone managed to get more than one of the corrosive guns from Moxxi? I've gotten a ton of the Fire ones but I can't get the Corrosion one to spawn again. I heard that maybe you only get the corrosion once per playthrough which would be annoying since mine is like a level 15 one. I guess I could join someone's game at the same level as me as a level 1 char and just give them money to buy it, but I'm wondering if there's another way.

[MCerberus]

So has anyone managed to get more than one of the corrosive guns from Moxxi? I've gotten a ton of the Fire ones but I can't get the Corrosion one to spawn again. I heard that maybe you only get the corrosion once per playthrough which would be annoying since mine is like a level 15 one. I guess I could join someone's game at the same level as me as a level 1 char and just give them money to buy it, but I'm wondering if there's another way.

I got a corrosive hail assault rifle from her once... it was an odd mortar-thing.

[Erloas]

I got a nice corrosive pistol from Moxxi, around level 20. I think it was a straight quest reward though.
As for tipping her, I have tipped her a lot and never got anything for my trouble.

[Strife Warzeal]

I got a nice corrosive pistol from Moxxi, around level 20. I think it was a straight quest reward though.
As for tipping her, I have tipped her a lot and never got anything for my trouble.

Pretty sure that was a quest reward.

For tipping, you can tip a lot and not get anything. I tipped two hundred thousand in one sitting and didn't get anything.

Also, Chen, I have not gotten another bad touch either (doesn't that sound wrong). So maybe, at least for now you can only get one. I really hope that's something they can patch, as the level 15 thing took me through so much of the game on normal. Then my upgraded version is helping tons in True Vault Hunter mode.

[JediSoth]

I got a nice corrosive pistol from Moxxi, around level 20. I think it was a straight quest reward though.
As for tipping her, I have tipped her a lot and never got anything for my trouble.

You have to tip her A LOT. A LOT A LOT. I hear you can get upgraded versions if you go back and tip her more, but I've dropped at least 30K since getting her two SMGs and haven't seen anything else.

Which is too bad. Her SMGs rock, even if they do reload a bit slowly. The shotgun I got as a quest reward rocks on toast. I just wish it was corrosion instead of fire (I love fire, but probably 50% of the elemental-themed enemies I encounter are on fire). It's great for stalkers and threshers, though.

[Triscuitable]

You have to tip her A LOT. A LOT A LOT. I hear you can get upgraded versions if you go back and tip her more, but I've dropped at least 30K since getting her two SMGs and haven't seen anything else.

For the Bad Touch, $15k. For the Good Touch, $25k. Afterwards, it's random which one you get after $25k, but scaled to your level.

Also, some crazy grinding, and I finally have all but one Siren head! (KAWAII KILLER! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?!)

[Sith_Happens]

tl;dr: Zer0 can fly.

And to believe I was kind of starting to consider switching to a Cunning build. Definitely sticking with Bloodshed now.:smallcool:

[GloatingSwine]

If the New-U is canon, (real spoilers incoming yo) what's the point of killing a boss for a quest if they immediately respawn? What's the motivation? Anyways, it doesn't explain the respawning nature of the myriad non-humanoid enemies a la BNK-3R, Henry, Wilhelm, The Warrior, Terramorphous, etc. "New U is canon" doesn't actually explain anything.

However, if it were canon, why didn't Angel or Jack respawn?

How do you think those armies of bandits keep repopulating :P

[Sith_Happens]

tl;dr: Zer0 can fly.

Quoting this again because I had an awesome idea:

Someone should record a video of themselves using Many Must Fall to take out multiple rakks in flight. Preferably while a teammate records themselves watching.

[Strife Warzeal]

Quoting this again because I had an awesome idea:

Someone should record a video of themselves using Many Must Fall to take out multiple rakks in flight. Preferably while a teammate records themselves watching.

That sounds awesome! and really difficult...

Since I've seen the post (and had Zer0 a high enough level) I've been trying to fly. It can be really really hard. Not sure if Buzzards are a good target or not to practice on. Though, when I hit them it is extremely satisfying. I'm seconding that someone needs to manage this feat of awesomitude.

[Tectonic Robot]

So, thoughts on the storyline?

[Lunix Vandal]

TVH Sawtooth Cauldron gets all of my hate. All of it. When you call the elevator up to Buzzard's Nest the first time during Toil and Trouble, you get ambushed. Among the ambushers are 4 Badass-quality shield-carrying Nomads, who are the ones you have to kill to advance the mission.

Now picture that ambush as a Gunzerker (read: no good way to deal with BA shield nomads except grenades & launchers) ... who has run out of grenades, has no launcher handy, and whose only source of extra grenades is a glitched Ammo Dump vendor that thinks clicking the "buy grenades" button means "try to buy AR ammo instead." :smallfurious:

Oh, and the Nomads in question have enough firepower in their "dinky little pistols" to blow through your 90,000 combined HP and shields in roughly five seconds, in case you were thinking about kiting in and out of melee range to bait them into swinging their shields to expose something that's not an invulnerable wall of armor. :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

But, with that aside, it was fairly smooth sailing the rest of the way, when I found out that this:
... On looking things up a bit more, it appears that each of the shield challenges has a specific unique or legendary shield that is spectacularly good for that specific challenge. Except Game of Thorns, looks like that one has to be done with a regular spike shield.Isn't true. Endgame spoil:One of the Warrior's potential Legendary drops is a Maliwan-made Spike shield named The Impaler. (Vlad would be proud.) Rather than reflecting damage onto those who attack you in melee, The Impaler launches ranged attacks towards those who shoot you with bullets. :smallbiggrin:

Mine's Corrosive, for extra Loader-smiting goodness; not sure if it can spawn as the other elements or not.

[Reynard]

But, with that aside, it was fairly smooth sailing the rest of the way, when I found out that this:Isn't true. Endgame spoil:One of the Warrior's potential Legendary drops is a Maliwan-made Spike shield named The Impaler. (Vlad would be proud.) Rather than reflecting damage onto those who attack you in melee, The Impaler launches ranged attacks towards those who shoot you with bullets. :smallbiggrin:

Mine's Corrosive, for extra Loader-smiting goodness; not sure if it can spawn as the other elements or not.

Mine (from playthrough 1) is also corrosive, but:
It's not instead of melee attacks, it reflects massive amounts of spike damage to anything that ever attacks you.

[ex cathedra]

ridiculous caps/large images incoming

THE OBJECTIVE: VERMIVOROUS


SET UP: THE WHO [our Hero] (http://i.imgur.com/X4GdZ.jpg)
THE WHERE [our hunting grounds] (http://i.imgur.com/SgGG0.jpg)
THE HOW [our I-don't-have-3-level-fifty-friends] (http://i.imgur.com/NdAHx.jpg)


THAT FOR WHICH I WAS UNPREPARED (http://i.imgur.com/uV5B3.jpg)

THE AFTERMATH (http://i.imgur.com/S3EPI.jpg)

gg

[thorgrim29]

TVH Sawtooth Cauldron gets all of my hate.

Mine too, because I get lost a lot, I eventually had to reload just to get out of the damn place

[Triscuitable]

ridiculous caps/large images incoming

THE OBJECTIVE: VERMIVOROUS


SET UP: THE WHO [our Hero] (http://i.imgur.com/X4GdZ.jpg)
THE WHERE [our hunting grounds] (http://i.imgur.com/SgGG0.jpg)
THE HOW [our I-don't-have-3-level-fifty-friends] (http://i.imgur.com/NdAHx.jpg)


THAT FOR WHICH I WAS UNPREPARED (http://i.imgur.com/uV5B3.jpg)

THE AFTERMATH (http://i.imgur.com/S3EPI.jpg)

gg

Did they drop any skins? You want to trade? I have a few heads I don't need. I also have another 'Til Death Do Us Part and Metal Fear.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Keep an eye on the @GearboxSoftware (https://twitter.com/GearboxSoftware) twitter account. They are giving away codes for golden keys over the next day or so.

[ex cathedra]

They didn't drop anything, unfortunately, and I've been too busy getting other items to bother spawning him again.

[NeoVid]

Where are people finding out which enemies drop what? I've looked over multiple wikis and found only a fraction of them, and none even list the one orange item I've gotten so far (Legendary Soldier class mod).

[Salur]

So, playthrough 2/2.5 question for you all. My brother and I want to postpone accepting sidequests until we hit level 50 in playthrough 2.5, so that the quest rewards all end up at 50. We weren't sure whether the Hammerlock quests in Southern Shelf would stay with him when he moves to Sanctuary; it turns out that they don't, as far as we can tell, so those quests are lost now. That's fine, no big deal.

(Minor level 16ish spoilers ahead) After Sanctuary movesdoes anyone know if those sidequests are also gone? Does anyone remember having available sidequests (sidequests not accepted, not "picked up but not finished") when that event happened, and if so were they still available after? Like I said, we'd like to save as many quests as possible for 50, but if those quests disappear we might as well do them all while we still can.


Where are people finding out which enemies drop what? I've looked over multiple wikis and found only a fraction of them, and none even list the one orange item I've gotten so far (Legendary Soldier class mod).

This thread (http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=150790) has the full list (spoilers, obviously, since it names bosses/locations).

As it says in the thread, the drops aren't guaranteed, those particular bosses simply have a much higher chance to drop those legendaries (which can also be found in unrelated spots).

[Lunix Vandal]

Some of it is trial and error (and a spot of luck), to be sure.

Some of it is this thread (http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=150790) on the Gearbox forums. (EDIT: Ninja'd with link to the same thread. :smalltongue:)

The unaccepted sidequests should all be available after completing Talon of God. Which is, conveniently, also the point at which unaccepted sidequests snap up to your level in P2.5, so ...
At worst, from what I saw in my own attempt to do the same, quests are temporarily disabled, but not permanently missed. You can't accept quests originating in Sanctuary from the time Angel betrays you until you get Sanctuary back in the Fast-Travel network. Claptrap's Sanctuary sidequests are unavailable whenever you have a story mission that requires meeting him outside of Sanctuary, and Mordecai and Brick's quests are disabled during Talon of God. You also can't do anything with Lilith's quests once you start Where Angels Fear to Tread Pt. 2 until you've completed Talon of God.

If you want a leveled The Bee with which to storm Hero's Pass, however, you absolutely must complete This Just In before starting Talon of God.

[thorgrim29]

So, for the first time this evening I got 3 vault symbols on the slot machines. Of course, it was with a level 14 ..... So while my gunzerker loves the shredifier, I'm still a bit disapointed. Also this morning I got the Legendary Siren mod off doctor zed's shop in Liar's Burg (TVH mode) with my siren, so she's happy.

[Triscuitable]

I'll trade you for that mod.

[thorgrim29]

Nah, I'm in love with it, but if I ever decide to use another I'll post it here.

[JediSoth]

I still haven't received an orange (except for that shield from Lillith which I quickly out-leveled). I found one in a vending machine once, but it actually wasn't that good compared to what I already had.

What's the best place to "grow" a goliath? I've tried leveling one up for that achievement nearly every time I go someplace with them, but it's really hard to get more than 2 or 3 level-ups, even when I lead him around to other bandits to kill and soften them up. Sometimes, I'll pop the helmets off all the goliaths in the area and just them do their thing, but that doesn't seem to work either.

[Strife Warzeal]

The Warrior dropped an orange shield for me today while helping my friend through Normal Mode... and it was stuck underneath him and I couldn't claim it. :smallfrown:

It hurt, a lot.

[factotum]

What's the best place to "grow" a goliath?

I've got that achievement, and I'm pretty sure I got it somewhere in the Sawtooth Cauldron--I wasn't actually trying for it, mind you, it just sort of happened. A multi-Goliath setup isn't likely to work, though, because they're too likely to kill each other; you ideally need a single Goliath and lots and lots of weaker dudes who are tough enough for him to level up from killing them, but not so tough they kill him before he gets there!

[Salur]

I still haven't received an orange (except for that shield from Lillith which I quickly out-leveled). I found one in a vending machine once, but it actually wasn't that good compared to what I already had.

What's the best place to "grow" a goliath? I've tried leveling one up for that achievement nearly every time I go someplace with them, but it's really hard to get more than 2 or 3 level-ups, even when I lead him around to other bandits to kill and soften them up. Sometimes, I'll pop the helmets off all the goliaths in the area and just them do their thing, but that doesn't seem to work either.

I also got mine at Sawtooth Cauldron, but the best spot is probably the initiation with the Slab King.

[thorgrim29]

The tunnels in frostburn canyon, and make it attack the spiderants

[Krade]

So, for the first time this evening I got 3 vault symbols on the slot machines. Of course, it was with a level 14 ..... So while my gunzerker loves the shredifier, I'm still a bit disapointed. Also this morning I got the Legendary Siren mod off doctor zed's shop in Liar's Burg (TVH mode) with my siren, so she's happy.

I got one of those yesterday. I was so happy. It gave me the Tediore Baby Maker. It's awesome. When you throw it and it explodes, another one bounces out in a random direction and explodes again for the same damage. On large enemies, it usually explodes both at once with a direct hit.

Now if only it were higher than level 22...

[Valaqil]

Easter Egg Spoiler - Not sure how else to describe it without giving it away.
Minecraft egg. We found it, looted it, got a couple of skins, but not all of them. We killed the Badass Creeper too, if it matters. We reloaded the area, but no Creepers respawned. Do they ever respawn? Does anyone know? I only got one piece for Zer0 (head) and want the skin too.

[Reynard]

Easter Egg Spoiler - Not sure how else to describe it without giving it away.
Minecraft egg. We found it, looted it, got a couple of skins, but not all of them. We killed the Badass Creeper too, if it matters. We reloaded the area, but no Creepers respawned. Do they ever respawn? Does anyone know? I only got one piece for Zer0 (head) and want the skin too.

Not sure what the trigger is, but yes, they respawn.

[Krade]

Backing out to the menu (character select) respawns everything, even chests. That's the only way I've gotten that room to respawn. I sugeest farming it for some of the weapons, too. I don't really like the sniper rifle the Badass can drop, but it can also drop a shotgun that is really cool.

[Triscuitable]

Not sure what the trigger is, but yes, they respawn.

Save and Quit, return to the spawn location, kill them again. I'm missing the heads for the all the other classes (that aren't the Siren), but I've got all the skins.

[Lunix Vandal]

I got one of those yesterday. I was so happy. It gave me the Tediore Baby Maker. It's awesome. When you throw it and it explodes, another one bounces out in a random direction and explodes again for the same damage. On large enemies, it usually explodes both at once with a direct hit.

Now if only it were higher than level 22...That's what Madame Von Bartlesby is for. :smalltongue:

Related: If you're on PC, friend me and join a game with my Salvador -- I've got three L50 'Makers that I'll be disposing of once I convince Her Royal Stuck-Uppedness to drop the Fire variant rather than just Shock and Bullet.

[Archangel Yuki]

The Warrior dropped an orange shield for me today while helping my friend through Normal Mode... and it was stuck underneath him and I couldn't claim it. :smallfrown:

It hurt, a lot.

PSA

YOU CAN LEAVE AND RE ENTER AREAS TO DESPAWN CORPSES AND CAUSE STUCK WEAPONS TO MOVE TO AREAS WHERE YOU CAN GRAB THEM

THIS HAS BEEN A PSA

Edit::
The_Charizard on steam. add me if you need anything. 3 level 50s and more oranges then you can shake a truxian stick at.

[Strife Warzeal]

PSA

YOU CAN LEAVE AND RE ENTER AREAS TO DESPAWN CORPSES AND CAUSE STUCK WEAPONS TO MOVE TO AREAS WHERE YOU CAN GRAB THEM

THIS HAS BEEN A PSA

Edit::
The_Charizard on steam. add me if you need anything. 3 level 50s and more oranges then you can shake a truxian stick at.

Not when the host had to leave after.

[Cespenar]

By the way, it turns out that Law and Order combo works hilariously with a melee Zer0 (duh). Remember that skill that gives you up to %20 health on kill, at max'd skill? I had thought that it was a good choice. But, this combo returns health equal to base damage on each melee hit. Not to mention an awesome roid damage bonus. Oh, also couple it with that skill that gives you an awesome movement bonus on kill.

Suffice it to say, when everyone else is playing a FPS, you end up playing Jedi Knight.

[polity4life]

I haven't been able to play much for the last couple of weeks. My gunzerker is level 31 now and I'm taking it at a leisurely pace. Unfortunately, I'm back on the Jakobs wagon since the only guns I've found that have value are Jakobs, ugh.

I was doing splendidly with Moxxi's Good and Bad touch. They spewed out a good amount of ammo with two different element types at an acceptable amount of damage per bullet. Then I encountered two gold drops while putzing around. I can't recall the names but I know what they are.

The first was a Bandit-style SMG that shot 163x2 damage and had a slag elemental component. The magazine size was 89 and this worked remarkably well with the other gold drop: a Jakobs assault rifle that does a whopping 971 a hit. The first is a level 16 weapon that I've since replaced. The second is a level 26 and I've yet to find an acceptable assault rifle replacement. I've tried numerous options ranging the whole color spectrum, save for gold, and nothing compares. I'm reaching the point where that's going to happen though as I found a Jakobs sniper rifle, without a scope, that deals 1598 and a pistol with a ridiculously fast reload speed that hits for 1012. The only problem is gunzerking is now a finger-flapping experience that is a bit sub-optimal.

Ah well. I'll just keep hitting King Mong a few times as he always seems to drop at least one blue and one purple/gold. Last night as I was winding down, I killed him again and nabbed a gold rocket launcher. It does something ridiculous like ~5000x6 but only has an accuracy of 50%. I guess it's a saturation weapon, which works well for me. :smallsmile:

[Sgt. Cookie]

Law and Order combo? I'm playing Zer0 myself, and I've never heard of it.

[Strife Warzeal]

Law and Order combo? I'm playing Zer0 myself, and I've never heard of it.

You take the Jakobs pistol Law you get from the Marshall in Sanctuary (side quest where you have to accuse a quadruplet of a crime, after returning from The Highlands), it has +100% melee damage. Then you take the shield Order (side quest where you have to accuse one of four friends that stole money, after assaulting Angel's Core Room), a maylay shield. Tried making that the least spoilery possible.

These two items have a bonus when used together, and that's that you recover health equal to the melee damage done with Law. A powerful tool for melee Zer0. It can carry you from once you get it till True Vault Hunter mode, and a bit beyond. Unfortunately I had to re-spec out to a Cunning based build because the poor shields and meleeing just didn't work together at the time. I'm thinking of trying it again once I can get together a level 50 Law and Order pair.

[Cespenar]

Yeah, it's a bit risky, but great fun.

[Strife Warzeal]

Yeah, it's a bit risky, but great fun.

No doubt, slashing through hoards of the enemies with well placed executi0ns and a Many Must Fall chain is seriously fun. Flying around with Execute is great fun too, I killed The Warrior(among other enemies and bosses) with it before I had to respec in TVH mode.

Can someone confirm if Unf0reseen works together with Many Must Fall? I would assume it does considering the trigger is when you become visible, and Many Must Fall reads "re-stealth".

[Triscuitable]

I should note skipping the quests for Law and Order (and best mother's day ever) are the best ideas in TVH. You'll get lv50 variants if you take them in 2.5. The Love Thumper at lv50 with Law is insane.

[ex cathedra]

Not only can law be acquired without the quest by killing a certain Lynchwood Sheriff, but its level doesn't particularly matter given that the melee damage bonus is always a flat 100%.

Getting a level 50 Love Thumper is, however, completely mandatory if you expect melee to keep up with guns.

[Sith_Happens]

Tried making that the least spoilery possible.

"Least spoilery" would have been not including the second parenthesized bit.:smallannoyed:

[Salur]

It appears I was wrong about Hammerlock's quests not carrying over when he moves, and other quests also track their givers, so my brother and I are now perfectly set up to leave every sidequest playthrough 2.5 level 50. In other words, I don't think any quests are locked out from you if all you want to do is the main quest on playthrough 2.

Actually getting to 50 will be somewhat tricky, though, since death zerging our way through the Wildlife Exploitation Preserve and trying to fight a level 44 boss with two level 40s ended poorly. I suspect we'll end up doing some quests that give greens just for the exp. Or for the money; I started playthrough 2 with 300k, and I'm already down to a third of that (though I have bought several things).

Definitely saving the Law (among others) for a level 50, though; even as a sniper Zer0, it was one of my favorite guns the first time.

[Triscuitable]

Tried making that the least spoilery possible.


:smallannoyed: Y'know, you did a bad job. You could've said "assaulting the bunker" or something.

[ScrambledBrains]

For anyone who's as stoked for Gaige's release on the 16th as I am, I humbly leave this:

Boom (http://www.borderlands2.com/us/skilltree/mechromancer.html)

[Reynard]

For anyone who's as stoked for Gaige's release on the 16th as I am, I humbly leave this:

Boom (http://www.borderlands2.com/us/skilltree/mechromancer.html)

Ordered Chaos looks so stupid.

Stupid fun, but also stupid ineffective. Well, until you get Discord+Nth Degree and combine with some stuff from BFF and just kills things like a bullet spraying maniac.

[Triscuitable]

Clearly you're looking at it from a standpoint of someone who isn't confident that they can manage their magazines. Gaige will be the character who uses Bandit guns constantly. That, and Vladof. It's what her skillset accommodates.

EDIT: She comes out tomorrow. Nice.

[ScrambledBrains]

EDIT: She comes out tomorrow. Nice.

:smallconfused: She comes out on the 16th. Tomorrow is the 9th.

[ex cathedra]

She's being released early. She'll be available within the next 24 hours.

[Reynard]

Well, released early to those of us who pre-ordered the game.

And, actually, I was more looking at it from the point of Anarchy stripping away your accuracy fairly quickly and being someone who has been relying on decent-distance crits a hell of a lot to get through playthrough 2.

[ScrambledBrains]

She's being released early. She'll be available within the next 24 hours.


Not to doubt you...but do you have proof?

[Triscuitable]

:smallconfused: She comes out on the 16th. Tomorrow is the 9th.

:smallannoyed: I'm not stupid. She's being released early.


Not to doubt you...but do you have proof?

Way to have "no doubt". (http://kotaku.com/5950020/borderlands-2s-mechromancer-class-might-be-its-best-playable-character) :smalltongue:

[Callos_DeTerran]

Way to have "no doubt". (http://kotaku.com/5950020/borderlands-2s-mechromancer-class-might-be-its-best-playable-character) :smalltongue:

...All my yes. All the yes in the universe. THE TIME OF THE DEATH-TRAP HAS COME!

[Ogremindes]

Awesome, I was waiting for the Mechromancer before I started playing, both because the visual design is more interesting than the main 4 and because I'm not much of a shooter player.

BTW, if anyone wants to add me to their Steam friends for Borderlands 2, I'm Ogremindes there as well.

[JediSoth]

I finally grew my Godliath in The Dust, in that area behind L's garage where the bandits live between all the spiderant nests and Boot Hill. I just trained a bunch of spiderants toward the bandits, popped the helmet off the goliath and let him go to town on the spiderants. I took out any particularly tough bandits or spiderants I thought might be a danger to my goliath until he fully leveled up and started chasing me.

Sadly, his drops were very poor. I got some eridium out of him and a green or blue weapon. It wasn't as good as what I already had (there was a bunch of ammo and money, too). At least I got the David Meet Goliath Achievement.

[Sith_Happens]

I finally grew my Godliath in The Dust, in that area behind L's garage where the bandits live between all the spiderant nests and Boot Hill. I just trained a bunch of spiderants toward the bandits, popped the helmet off the goliath and let him go to town on the spiderants. I took out any particularly tough bandits or spiderants I thought might be a danger to my goliath until he fully leveled up and started chasing me.

Sadly, his drops were very poor. I got some eridium out of him and a green or blue weapon. It wasn't as good as what I already had (there was a bunch of ammo and money, too). At least I got the David Meet Goliath Achievement.

The last I tried it was with a badass goliath that spawned in that area where you have a torch the volleyball net. Sadly, he vanished into thin air with one level left.:smallannoyed:

[Cespenar]

I inadvertently grew a Godliath in Sawtooth Cauldron, I think. Didn't yield very good stuff.

[Tome]

I'm having fun trying out the new Mechromancer at the moment. Mostly going for her Ordered Chaos tree, which is both powerful and fun. I'm level 9 and my pistol is dealing 400+ damage per shot, though it's accuracy is horrendous and it takes a little work to remember not to manually reload.

[Chen]

So with regards to Moxxi's SMGs I can reliably get a fire one by just tipping her about 10-20k in hundreds. This is scaled to pretty close to your level. For the corrosion one it does appear to be given to you as the FIRST gun you get from her after tipping. There's a thread on the gearbox forums (which I can't access from work) that shows you how to do a split screen 2 player mode on the same PC. Using that I can start a game with my main, make a new level 1 char, trade them money and have them go get an SMG that's leveled to my main's level. It's slightly convoluted, but it has worked 100% of the time (you just need to make a new char each time though).

Also got "The Bee" shield on my PT1 and its horribly OP. Still using it on PT2 at level 41 despite the fact it only gives 1500 shields because its still so ridiculously powerful, especially with SMGs (or other rapid fire/burst fire/multishot weapons).

[Valaqil]

For a story with a positive result, I managed to get a Godliath in Frostburn Canyon, down the hill from Clayton. It's fairly easy there with 2-3 goliaths, and plenty of enemies in one tight space. You have to prevent the nomads from killing him, but that's not -too- hard with a super badass goliath drawing their fire. We got a purple SMG and were happy with it. Frostburn canyon in general is a good place for that. I haven't had much luck elsewhere.

[ScrambledBrains]

:smallannoyed: I'm not stupid. She's being released early.


Way to have "no doubt". (http://kotaku.com/5950020/borderlands-2s-mechromancer-class-might-be-its-best-playable-character) :smalltongue:

I didn't mean to offend, sorry. :smallredface:

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smallcool: I am so playing as her tonight!

[pffh]

Hey does anyone of you guys know how stat stacking works? I'm playing a sentry gun focused commando with a class mod that reduces the skill cd by 21.4% (and gives +2 to the skill that reduces the cd but I'm still working towards that) and a relic that also gives 21.4% cd reduction. So I'm wondering how does that plus later the skill and even someones elses mod that has a team wide cd reduction stack?

[Douglas]

Hey does anyone of you guys know how stat stacking works? I'm playing a sentry gun focused commando with a class mod that reduces the skill cd by 21.4% (and gives +2 to the skill that reduces the cd but I'm still working towards that) and a relic that also gives 21.4% cd reduction. So I'm wondering how does that plus later the skill and even someones elses mod that has a team wide cd reduction stack?
I'm not sure if this applies to everything, but all the cooldown reduction stuff I've seen so far (skill and class mod for Siren) has been a bonus to cooldown rate rather than a reduction of cooldown time. This means that +100% cooldown boost would make your skill cool down twice as fast, being available again in half the normal time, rather than being available instantly because all 100% of the CD time is gone.

With that, I think CD reduction stacks linearly. 21.4% CDR and 21.4% CDR combine to give 42.8% CDR, but this isn't as powerful as you might have assumed.

Now what does appear to work (based entirely on the wording of the text) by reducing cooldown time is boosts to shield recharge delay. If those stack linearly and work the way I think they do, stacking up 100% shield recharge delay would eliminate the shield recharge delay stat from the game - your shields would always be recharging.

[Erloas]

I had been looking at Gaige, though I'm not sure if I'll wait or not, since everyone will be playing her for a while. Looking through her skills I'm not sure where I would want to go.
I think some of them I would really have to try and get a feel for what they really do.

[Sith_Happens]

I had been looking at Gaige, though I'm not sure if I'll wait or not, since everyone will be playing her for a while. Looking through her skills I'm not sure where I would want to go.
I think some of them I would really have to try and get a feel for what they really do.

Little Big Trouble tree all the way. It puts fire damage in your shock damage!

[Erloas]

Shock weapons seem to be common early on but I see a lot more of the other elements in the later levels of the first play through. Although it would be nice in that it is useful in a lot of situations that way, being good against shields and flesh at the same time.

I would *think* shock does good against robots, but I haven't noticed that be the case. Explosives seem to be the most generally useful against all the robots around.

I am a bit hesitant about building skills around fairly specific weapons, as you'll always find better of other types of weapons when you do that. Of course respecing is cheap enough. Does respecing go up the more times you do it or simply scale with your level? Or is it a percentage of your current cash like dieing is (or at least used to be in 1, I used to buy a lot of stuff in one just because if you didn't you would just loose that much more when you died and there was seldom that much to buy with it)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Explosive does bonus versus everything. Just not as big a bonus like corrosive against armor (like loaders) or electric against shields.

[Chen]

I've stuck to using Fire and Corrosive as my two main elements. It covers pretty much everything I'd need to kill. Switching to/from shock for shields just seems inefficient. I also have a slag sniper rifle for bosses, but just to put the debuff on them until I get Ruin.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

The problem with slag is some bosses and mini-bosses can't be slaged so you just deal base damage to them.

[Cespenar]

Shock seems to be the most unnecessary element, to me at least. Fire is good because there are a lot of unarmored, unshielded enemies, acid is good because there are a lot of mechanical stuff, but shields... well, apart from the few that bosses got, shields are already very easy to bypass.

[Triscuitable]

Shock chains through enemies, so it affects a lot more than just one target.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Shock chains through enemies, so it affects a lot more than just one target.Plus it's a damage-over-time that almost nothing is resistant to. It doesn't deal extra damage outright, but punches through shields like they aren't there and is, usually, reliably effective. Acid is too, and I'd say acid is more useful overall, given the massive number of robots you tend to fight in the later stages of the game.

In other news, is the Buffalo rifle supposed to be a non-Sniper rifle? Because I personally found it hilarious. It does twice the damage of my (already very powerful) piece, but only has iron sights... using it is going to be a fun exercise. :P

[Erloas]

In the first game there was a Jakobs rifle that was called the elephant hunter or something like that which was a sniper rifle with 2 rounds and massive base damage and only iron sites. At least it was something like that, I could be remembering parts of it wrong. So I would bet the buffalo rifle is much the same.

I have noticed there seems to be a more focused design to the elemental creatures. There used to be the whole gamut of spiderant variations but I think I've only seen fire in BL2. I think the only corrosive monsters I've seen are the barfing skags. And there are a few slagged types of a couple different things.
I think there might be some lightning nomads, but I can't think of any lightning monsters. And of course the repair drones drop electric missiles.

[Valaqil]

Shock seems to be the most unnecessary element, to me at least. Fire is good because there are a lot of unarmored, unshielded enemies, acid is good because there are a lot of mechanical stuff, but shields... well, apart from the few that bosses got, shields are already very easy to bypass.

I have to agree. As of yesterday, I now have a generic sniper rifle of every type ("normal" + all elements) and I've been trying to decide whether it's worth carrying so many around. I've basically decided that normal, fire and corrosive rifles are all I really need. I came to the exact same conclusion about shields and slag is either not worth it on weak enemies or not applicable to so many stronger enemies.


In the first game there was a Jakobs rifle that was called the elephant hunter or something like that which was a sniper rifle with 2 rounds and massive base damage and only iron sites. At least it was something like that, I could be remembering parts of it wrong. So I would bet the buffalo rifle is much the same.

I have noticed there seems to be a more focused design to the elemental creatures. There used to be the whole gamut of spiderant variations but I think I've only seen fire in BL2. I think the only corrosive monsters I've seen are the barfing skags. And there are a few slagged types of a couple different things.
I think there might be some lightning nomads, but I can't think of any lightning monsters. And of course the repair drones drop electric missiles.

The elephant gun was great. I loved that thing for mid-range stuff.

I saw a lightning/shock skag in the preservation, I think.

[Cespenar]

In contrast to shock, acid seems to be incredibly useful in the last half of the game, though.

[Tectonic Robot]

So many pony references!

*Squees*

[Slylizard]

I have noticed there seems to be a more focused design to the elemental creatures. There used to be the whole gamut of spiderant variations but I think I've only seen fire in BL2. I think the only corrosive monsters I've seen are the barfing skags. And there are a few slagged types of a couple different things.
I think there might be some lightning nomads, but I can't think of any lightning monsters. And of course the repair drones drop electric missiles.

I've seen poison, slagged, fire and corrosive spiderants.

Also seen a couple of shock skags around.

[Sith_Happens]

So, I'm still not particularly far in the game, so I'll go ahead and ask: Are Anarchy SMGs still a thing?

[Legoshrimp]

So, I'm still not particularly far in the game, so I'll go ahead and ask: Are Anarchy SMGs still a thing?

which where those?

[ex cathedra]

Regarding SMGs, almost all of the multiple-pellet SMGs were removed. The Double mod appears on a couple of rare SMGs, but as far as I can tell nothing as absurd as double Anarchies still exist. Also, much to my dismay, double SMGs don't trigger the Assassin's Two Fang skill. It's such a bummer. I'm totally over it, though, since I picked up a level 50 Rapid Infinity and a Pistol Sheriff's Badge. It's legittt.


The problem with slag is some bosses and mini-bosses can't be slaged so you just deal base damage to them.

I've invested over a hundred hours into my assassin and I'm fairly certain that I've slagged almost all of the toughest enemies in the game.


Shock seems to be the most unnecessary element, to me at least. Fire is good because there are a lot of unarmored, unshielded enemies, acid is good because there are a lot of mechanical stuff, but shields... well, apart from the few that bosses got, shields are already very easy to bypass.

Really?

Explosive does 20% less damage to shields, Corrosive does 40% less damage to flesh and 60% less damage to shields in exchange for 75% additional damage to armor, Fire does 60% less damage to both shields and armor in exchange for 75% additional damage to flesh, while Shock deals reduced damage to nothing in exchange for 150% additional damage to shields.

It's by far the best element for general play, and the only real disadvantage it has is that there aren't a lot of abilities or items that support a shock-focused build, in my opinion, but that's obviously changed. I'm super excited about the Mechromancer's second and third trees.

[Reynard]

A slight bummer about the third tree, though. The first teir skill that isn't ANARCHY!!!! will screw with that Legendary Infinite Ammo Pistol you can get from the slot machines.

Even one rank in the skill will reduce it's clip to a big fat 0, meaning it can't be fired. It's a shame, because it works so well with her other skills, and would be amazing with the higher-up Ordered Chaos skills.

[ex cathedra]

That pistol, the Infinity, actually drops from Doc Mercy. I'm pretty sure that the slots can just drop any orange in the game.

[Errata]

Shock can be useful as one of your 4 weapons to weaken a strong shielded enemy and then switch to fire. I keep a shock SMG around to get off a few quick shield depleting shots. And unlike some of the other elements there isn't a clear downside to it, so it's generally better than nothing. Fire and corrode are too weak in many cases to use as your default weapon when you aren't up against the right enemy type.

They're not really challenging or common enough to be much of a factor in weapon choice, but I find shock extremely helpful against those annoying beasts who go invisible. They all have shields, and once their shields are down they stop going invisible and become way easier to kill.

I'm only level 20, so I can't speak to the end game, but so far the only truly essential element has been corrosive, which can make all the difference against robots. The others can be a nice bonus in some circumstances but are clearly optional.

[Lunix Vandal]

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by Anarchy so far -- even with 75-100 stacks (read: -175% accuracy), I was still able to land (scoped) headshots at whim with my Jakobs sniper, from far enough away that the bandits' return fire wasn't a significant issue. At most, I had to deal with a bit more view-sway than I was used to from Borderlands -- but still far less than, say, what snipers have to deal with in the WWII-themed Calls of Duty. And, of course, my hip accuracy was slim-to-none. But the damage? Merry Kritzmas.

Upwards of 140 stacks, though, was a different story -- suddenly even scoped dead-center bodyshots were missing. (I wound up having Deathtrap solo that group so I could dismiss my built-up Anarchy in peace.) It wouldn't surprise me if rolling a higher-accuracy rifle (mine's 97.5) or a few more Badass Tokens towards accuracy would let me sit high and mighty on a stack of 150+, though.

[Sholos]

So many pony references!

*Squees*


What? Where?

[Tome]

What? Where?

The names for Gaige's skills, like '20% Cooler'.

[Tectonic Robot]

What? Where?


The names for Gaige's skills, like '20% Cooler'.

And "The Stare"! It makes Deathtrap fire a laser beam! ^_^

[Triscuitable]

What? Where?

Aside from the fact that it's a skill tree filled with MLP references named "Best Friends Forever"?

Only too many. :smalltongue:

[thorgrim29]

To get a level 50 flame of the firehawk, do I need to wait until level 50 to accept the first quest from Lilith, or can I get that and then wait to do the other? Also, for future reference, where do I stop in Lynchwood and in the quests leading to having the love thumper in order for order and the love thumper to be properly leveled?

[Triscuitable]

To get a level 50 flame of the firehawk, do I need to wait until level 50 to accept the first quest from Lilith, or can I get that and then wait to do the other? Also, for future reference, where do I stop in Lynchwood and in the quests leading to having the love thumper in order for order and the love thumper to be properly leveled?

You must ignore the quest (DO NOT ACCEPT IT) until you reach level 50. The quest "Best Mother's Day Ever" is the quest that rewards the Thumper.

[thorgrim29]

I know, but what quest? Flame of the firehawk comes after 4 or 5 other quests

[Cespenar]

Explosive does 20% less damage to shields, Corrosive does 40% less damage to flesh and 60% less damage to shields in exchange for 75% additional damage to armor, Fire does 60% less damage to both shields and armor in exchange for 75% additional damage to flesh, while Shock deals reduced damage to nothing in exchange for 150% additional damage to shields.

It's by far the best element for general play, and the only real disadvantage it has is that there aren't a lot of abilities or items that support a shock-focused build, in my opinion, but that's obviously changed. I'm super excited about the Mechromancer's second and third trees.

The thing is, shields are rare and easily bypassable already. Except for a few bosses, I mean. And most of the information you put there is redundant, because you can swap weapons, and won't use acid weapons on flesh, or fire weapons on armor anyway. What's important is rarity. Flesh is the most common, so fire becomes more useful, etc. Simple, really.

[Sith_Happens]

Regarding SMGs, almost all of the multiple-pellet SMGs were removed. The Double mod appears on a couple of rare SMGs, but as far as I can tell nothing as absurd as double Anarchies still exist.

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg

[factotum]

I came to the exact same conclusion about shields and slag is either not worth it on weak enemies or not applicable to so many stronger enemies.


Unless you're a Gunzerker slag is more of a support element--you slag the enemy and then your companions are dealing more damage to it and thus kill it faster. Gunzerker, of course, can have a slag weapon in one hand and something that deals real damage in the other, and that combo is pretty darned awesome!

[Chen]

I know, but what quest? Flame of the firehawk comes after 4 or 5 other quests

You can't accept the quest that actually gives the Orange/Purple/Blue item if you want the item to be properly leveled. Any of the preceding quests in a chain can be accepted and completed.

[Valaqil]

I've invested over a hundred hours into my assassin and I'm fairly certain that I've slagged almost all of the toughest enemies in the game.


If you have, you've had better luck than I have. I have a SR with 70% slag chance and I _still_ can't slag a decent number of (mini-)bosses. I'll go ahead and blame the RNG.



Really?

Explosive does 20% less damage to shields, Corrosive does 40% less damage to flesh and 60% less damage to shields in exchange for 75% additional damage to armor, Fire does 60% less damage to both shields and armor in exchange for 75% additional damage to flesh, while Shock deals reduced damage to nothing in exchange for 150% additional damage to shields.

It's by far the best element for general play, and the only real disadvantage it has is that there aren't a lot of abilities or items that support a shock-focused build, in my opinion, but that's obviously changed. I'm super excited about the Mechromancer's second and third trees.

Yes, really. BL2 Wiki (http://www.bl2wiki.com/Elemental_Effects) says those numbers are only right for your second playthrough. On the first, it's only 25% less for fire/acid on shields, which isn't a big hit. You're still correct in general, but it's only that pronounced in the hardest case. Also, what Cespenar said. You can swap weapons, leave a shock gun in your 'pack, and basically ignore shields most of the time. They're not prevalent (in my experience).



They're not really challenging or common enough to be much of a factor in weapon choice, but I find shock extremely helpful against those annoying beasts who go invisible. They all have shields, and once their shields are down they stop going invisible and become way easier to kill.

Having a Zer0 in your party really helps with those. Deception lets you see invisible enemies.


Unless you're a Gunzerker slag is more of a support element--you slag the enemy and then your companions are dealing more damage to it and thus kill it faster. Gunzerker, of course, can have a slag weapon in one hand and something that deals real damage in the other, and that combo is pretty darned awesome!

Yeah. I've been figuring that out. Eager to try it on my Gunzerker!

[Erloas]

Do shields become more common on playthrough 2? I know in BL1 the number of shielded raiders and elemental monsters increased a lot from having 1-2 players and having 4 players and also increased again once you got to the second playthrough.

As for elementals choices... yeah, I switch between guns all the time. In fact now that I respeced my gunzerker I'm doing it even more. With bonuses to ROF with weapon swaps and killing enemies reloading all your non-equipped guns and the sweet bonus damage to the last shot in the clip I will usually swap a gun rather then reloading. Also at that point reload time on any given gun is almost irrelevant except against the strongest bosses with no cohorts (very few of them).

The problem I've seemed to notice with slag is that it doesn't last long enough to do anything else. Usually by the time slag procs, you notice and switch weapons the effect is gone before you get more then a couple shots off. Still works well in group settings, but its hard to make good use of by yourself.

[factotum]

Do shields become more common on playthrough 2?

Not really noticed about the shields--there are definitely more armoured dudes around, though (common or garden Psychos usually become Armoured Psychos, so that faithful fire weapon is not as useful as it used to be).

[ex cathedra]

If you have, you've had better luck than I have. I have a SR with 70% slag chance and I _still_ can't slag a decent number of (mini-)bosses. I'll go ahead and blame the RNG.

I just have very clear memories of effectively one-shotting the PT1 last boss by burst firing a Dahl slag sniper rifle for the proc and then following that up with a sticky longbow bonus package with the slag bonus. That's where I actually got the slag damage challenge, and so even though the boss' model might not show the slag-licked effect it definitely still works.

And Terramorphous just turns purple as usual when slagged, but I'll admit that I've never seen weapon-based slags last very long against him. Not long enough to be worth the weapon switch, at least. A Ruin Phasebomb or Deathblossom slag proc seems to last long enough, however.


Yes, really. BL2 Wiki (http://www.bl2wiki.com/Elemental_Effects) says those numbers are only right for your second playthrough. On the first, it's only 25% less for fire/acid on shields, which isn't a big hit. You're still correct in general, but it's only that pronounced in the hardest case. Also, what Cespenar said. You can swap weapons, leave a shock gun in your 'pack, and basically ignore shields most of the time. They're not prevalent (in my experience).

Yeah, because elemental effects obviously aren't nearly as important for the first playthrough.

Shields become fairly common as the game progresses, and the only weapons that don't deal reduced damage to them are Normal/Slag/Shock. I find myself primarily just using normal weapons in PT2.5 since they're effective against everything. Shock is also effective against everything, though, and its only real disadvantage is that elemental weaponry does less base damage than explosive or non-elemental weaponry in general. Because Mechromancer compensates for that, there's really no reason not to rely on shock weaponry.

That's not to say that fire or corrosive are bad, of course, just that their use becomes very limited (in the situational sense, because they are quite strong when they do work as intended) as the game progresses and I often find that I don't have room in my four weapon slots for a dedicated gun for both elements. That's just my opinion, though, and I think it's a mistake to write-off shock considering that it's the only almost literally unresisted DoT element.

[Psyren]

So apparently there's some kind of bug that's interfering with online play? (I don't know the details, I only play split-screen or SP.)


Anyhow, my friend and I tried out Gaige yesterday, getting to level 7 or so so we could play with her Deathtrap robot. First, the negatives:

- Its damage so far is... decent. It takes about 3-4 hits to drop a Marauder or Psycho so far - not quite as good as Mordecai's Bloodwing in that respect, from a comparable point in the game at least. It's melee swings are also a bit on the slow side. As a control of sorts, I ran Axton, and my turret was definitely doing more damage, particularly against groups where it could quickly swivel to the next target while the Deathtrap was busy floating over to the next one.

- The cooldown is pretty long at a minute. (As a comparison point, Salvadore and Axton's base cooldowns are 45s - less for the latter if you reclaim the turret early - and Maya's phaselock is 15s.) Gaige does have a cooldown reduction talent, but it's waaay down the BFF tree, almost near the bottom, so you'll be dealing with minute cooldowns.

- It's kind of slow getting from target to target. This was pretty apparent on Southern Shelf, where multiple bad guys were at various elevations above and below us, and it had to run back and forth as new enemies spawned.

- It tends to chase/kite enemies away from the group, or engage them around corners or before they even reach the group - even going so far as to run inside spawn points to beat on enemies before they step out. This is great on single-player obviously (just watch the robot and you'll find that sneaky bastard who was invisibly taking potshots at you) but can be annoying for your teammate(s) in multiplayer, This can be particularly annoying for Axton if it chases enemies away from his turret, though in that case he can at least reclaim it for quicker cooldown.

However, the robot has definite advantages to offset the above.

- Very long duration - you will likely clear out an entire area with just one cooldown, so you don't really feel the 60s downtime as much since you'll likely spend a chunk of that just looting and moving to the next area. There is a talent to expand this even more in the BFF tree, adding 5s per kill. I'm not yet sure if doing so delays the cooldown period though, so that might not actually be worthwhile, but it's worth testing.

- Like Axton's Turret, the bot stays up while you're down, and if it scores a kill (which it should) you will second wind even if it's fighting far away from you or you can't see the enemies it's fighting. Combined with the duration and Gaige can be very hard to kill as long as there are mooks around.

- It's definitely a TANK - the bot so far can soak stupid amounts of damage, even sticking to level-equivalent badasses (including melee-heavy ones like Bullymongs and Nomads) and bosses (like Flynt) like glue for almost the whole duration. Note that it does very little damage to those on its own, so you'll want to whip out your best gun and have at it while such enemies are distracted.

- It has a pretty wide aggro radius too. When we dropped it, generally 3/4 to all of the enemies in the area would switch to it, especially once it had charged into their midst. And the robot itself aggros pretty wide too, going after enemies that weren't even on our radar. This is great news for Axton, because it means he and his turret are largely ignored even as they pump rounds into foes for massive damage. These two characters are a very strong and thematic combo as a result, particularly in wide-open or narrow areas without corners. (Just be mindful of the "chasing" mentioned above.)

- Those two points combine to make it a badass-killer, or at least badass-occupier. As soon as you see one, drop the bot - it will pull the badass' attention from you, allowing you to slip around behind it and get some easy headshots. A badass focusing on Axton's Sabre will take it down in fairly short order, but the Deathtrap is much sturdier.

- It's flight and proximity lightning make it very good at taking down slippery targets. So far we've only tested it on Rakks, but I can see it going after Buzzards or Stalkers with equal ease. Again, this will combo well with Axton's Turret; we were able to take out an entire flock of Rakks while trading (and bickering over) loot.

So all in all, I like her. Her lightning tree and the one on the right look like they can do crazy amounts of damage, but I recommend the BFF ("girlfriend mode tree?") for anyone seeking to learn the ropes with her.

[DiscipleofBob]

Question about Axton:

Once I pick up Gemini, should I start working towards Scorched Earth or Longbow?

EDIT: Also, is the skill that lets you deploy on walls and ceilings worth it?

[Valaqil]

Yeah, because elemental effects obviously aren't nearly as important for the first playthrough.

...

That's not to say that fire or corrosive are bad, of course, just that their use becomes very limited (in the situational sense, because they are quite strong when they do work as intended) as the game progresses and I often find that I don't have room in my four weapon slots for a dedicated gun for both elements.

I guess that's the big difference here. I'm not on PT 2, so it is easy to write shock off for now. I'm not sure how close I am to the end of PT 1, but it's not as problematic as that yet.

[Reynard]

Even after the nerf, The Bee is still broken good against bosses. No matter if you have 3 or 4 people, one person with it and the Conference Call can kill Terra in three clips.

2 people with the combo can kill him before he goes underground for the first time.

[A Rainy Knight]

Question about Axton:

Once I pick up Gemini, should I start working towards Scorched Earth or Longbow?

EDIT: Also, is the skill that lets you deploy on walls and ceilings worth it?

I'm personally of the opinion that Scorched Earth is better, especially since there are some nice turret upgrades leading up to it (I'm a big fan of buffing the turret). The walls and ceilings skill is useful if you combine it with Longbow to deploy the turret out of enemies' melee range if you have a problem with the turret getting smashed too quickly.

EDIT: Ooh, I also just realized that Longbow boosts turret health. It seems like Longbow + Maglock makes the turret a lot more survivable while Sentry + Laser Sight + Scorched Earth ups its damage output.

[Cespenar]

On a new note, that scopeless sniper rifle goes rather well with a sniper-focused Zer0. Makes for truly obscene critical hits.

Also, that unique double-shooting homing acid pistol is a hoot as well.

Oh, oh, and that fireworks/mortar assault rifle!

Seriously, the time and care they spent on gun mechanics is truly astonishing.

[Lunix Vandal]

Even after the nerf, The Bee is still broken good against bosses. ...
A lone Gunzerker with dual Baby Makers can kill him before he goes underground for the first time.FTFY. :smalltongue:

Admittedly, I have to burn 500ish ammo to do it, but still. Still broken good, that is.

EDIT: Also, my Sniper+Anarchy+Accuracy boost theorycraft from last page turned out to be right -- having raised my Badass Accuracy boost to +8.0% (up from 6.8%) and equipped a +12% Accuracy Prodigy class mod, I can now comfortably headshot bandits from a fair ways away with a full 150 stacks of Anarchy. Who cares that I'm using a rifle that I picked up 7 levels ago? Not me, is who.
SMASH THE SYSTEM ^________^
ANARCHY FOREVER :) :) :)

[Chen]

Even after the nerf, The Bee is still broken good against bosses. No matter if you have 3 or 4 people, one person with it and the Conference Call can kill Terra in three clips.

2 people with the combo can kill him before he goes underground for the first time.

What was the nerf exactly?

[Reynard]

What was the nerf exactly?

They roughly halved it's damage, and increased the time it take before it starts recharging by a second or so.


However, as a Siren, I've hit -100% shield recharge delay. So I just need to avoid trouble for all of half a second and it's back.

[Valaqil]

They roughly halved it's damage, and increased the time it take before it starts recharging by a second or so.


However, as a Siren, I've hit -100% shield recharge delay. So I just need to avoid trouble for all of half a second and it's back.

What? How? Through the badass tokens?

[Chen]

Hmm just reducing its damage will still keep it nicely OP I'd imagine. Hell I'm using my PT1 Bee still and I'm at level 45 now and doing fine. Granted if anything looks at me funny I die, but I can usually manage. Threshers and those cloaking things are my only real bane at the moment.

[Tectonic Robot]

I'm still only level 22, and I've had this game from day one.

;___;

Cursed life!

[Reynard]

What? How? Through the badass tokens?

Mod that gives +5 Ward skill: 80% Also +50% capacity.
Badass Tokens: 8%
White Artifact: 15%

[Valaqil]

Mod that gives +5 Ward skill: 80% Also +50% capacity.
Badass Tokens: 8%
White Artifact: 15%

....I kept looking at the Tier 3-6 skills because I expected that kind of drastic gain to be much higher. I completely missed that in T1. Very cool. I'm jealous.

[ex cathedra]

A few things
Can you link me to some confirmation that the Bee has been nerfed? I know that they *plan* to nerf it, but mine still has the same capacity, delay, damage, and functionality as it did upon release as of... last night. The only fair way to nerf it is to drastically gut the damage (like reduce it by upwards of 80%), increase the amp drain to 1 and decrease the delay and capacity, or remove the code that causes the damage to apply to each and every pellet fired. Nothing else would really come close to balancing it IMO

Secondly, shouldn't 100% shield recharge delay actually reduce the delay by 50%? That's how pretty much all math works in borderlands, time-based bonused generally increase the rate of completion rather than reduce the time needed to complete. If it was the latter, the recharge would be literally instant and cooldown rate could also be reduced to achieve 0 second cooldowns. It should just be increasing the rate of completion, or rather each 1 second that passes counts as 1*(1+(your bonus recharge delay, in this case 100%)) = 2 seconds, thus actually reducing your delay by 50%. If that isn't the case, i'd like to know.

[Douglas]

A few things
Can you link me to some confirmation that the Bee has been nerfed? I know that they *plan* to nerf it, but mine still has the same capacity, delay, damage, and functionality as it did upon release as of... last night. The only fair way to nerf it is to drastically gut the damage (like reduce it by upwards of 80%), increase the amp drain to 1 and decrease the delay and capacity, or remove the code that causes the damage to apply to each and every pellet fired. Nothing else would really come close to balancing it IMO
I think they should change it to A) apply to total damage, not per pellet; B) drain the entire shield; and C) recharge quickly.

Part A is just common sense. How many bullets you're shooting should have no effect at all on how much power a shield is able to add, and the per pellet interaction is straight up broken in my opinion. I would even label it as a bug.

Part B both prevents high fire rate from being a different way to break it and fits much better with the fluff of the shield's name.

Part C prevents part B from making it a near worthless gimmick.

In combination, they should result in a shield that is powerful but not brokenly overpowered, makes a lot more sense, and still has something unique and powerful that makes it worthy of being a legendary. Oh, and they can boost its stats back up without breaking the game in half.


Secondly, shouldn't 100% shield recharge delay actually reduce the delay by 50%? That's how pretty much all math works in borderlands, time-based bonused generally increase the rate of completion rather than reduce the time needed to complete. If it was the latter, the recharge would be literally instant and cooldown rate could also be reduced to achieve 0 second cooldowns. It should just be increasing the rate of completion, or rather each 1 second that passes counts as 1*(1+(your bonus recharge delay, in this case 100%)) = 2 seconds, thus actually reducing your delay by 50%. If that isn't the case, i'd like to know.
Every action skill cooldown reduction thing I've seen is phrased as "increases cooldown rate by X%". Every shield recharge delay reduction thing I've seen is phrased as "reduces shield recharge delay by X%".

Judging by that wording, I think 100% shield recharge delay reduction does, in fact, reduce the delay to 0. I haven't actually achieved anywhere near that myself, though, so I don't have any solid evidence to testify on.

Reynard, any chance you have a Love Thumper stashed somewhere that you can test? If your Siren can get that shield to start recharging after only half a second or so, I'd say that would be proof of how it works.

[Reynard]

No, but I can grab one in like 30 seconds. Expect an edit to this post soon.
THUMPER EDIT: Okay, it seems the Thumper can't be effected by shield recharge delay at all. Took the entire 3-ish minutes to start charging.

In other absurd cap news, just reached 600 anarchy. I don't even know what is going on any more, or where these bullets are going, but there sure are a lot of people falling over.

[Codemus]

Six hundred? So is your screen just going nuts jumping around everywhere?

I wonder how that would interact with the Bane.

[Reynard]

Six hundred? So is your screen just going nuts jumping around everywhere?

I wonder how that would interact with the Bane.

Yes, and haven't found one yet, but I'm betting on Hilariously.

It's mental enough with just a legendary Vladof spinigun.

[Codemus]

Jeeze, I'll bet. How'd you get up to that much anyway, just keep one last guy alive while you go nuts with emptying your clips?

[Reynard]

Jeeze, I'll bet. How'd you get up to that much anyway, just keep one last guy alive while you go nuts with emptying your clips?

It keeps between areas. All you have to do is not die and have a +4 MOAR STOOPID class mod. I know that skill has a real name, but mine is more appropriate.

[Tome]

No, but I can grab one in like 30 seconds. Expect an edit to this post soon.
THUMPER EDIT: Okay, it seems the Thumper can't be effected by shield recharge delay at all. Took the entire 3-ish minutes to start charging.

In other absurd cap news, just reached 600 anarchy. I don't even know what is going on any more, or where these bullets are going, but there sure are a lot of people falling over.

Max Anarchy + Close Enough + The Nth Degree = Aiming is for suckers

[ex cathedra]

Every action skill cooldown reduction thing I've seen is phrased as "increases cooldown rate by X%". Every shield recharge delay reduction thing I've seen is phrased as "reduces shield recharge delay by X%".

Judging by that wording, I think 100% shield recharge delay reduction does, in fact, reduce the delay to 0. I haven't actually achieved anywhere near that myself, though, so I don't have any solid evidence to testify on.

I think that is extraordinarily unlikely:

A) If that were the case, and Reynard did have -100% SRD, he wouldn't have to wait for "half a second" because he wouldn't have any delay. His shields would always be recharging. The fact is that there does exist some delay, and I suspect that Reynard is under-reporting the actual amount of time it takes his shields to start recharging.

B) I tested a 4.2 second Bee with 10/5 Ward and -7.2% from Badass points, and there's no way it started recharging in the .53 seconds suggested by that math unless there's some hidden "hard" delay cap that somehow exists despite a complete lack of supporting evidence.

C) All negative-signed modifiers in Borderlands 1 were handled via the reciprocal method wherein a "100% reduction" was actually a "100% increase in rate" AFAIK.

D) Other negative modifiers don't work like that now. -100% Accuracy halves your accuracy, it doesn't increase your spread to literally screen-wide proportions.

[Reynard]

Max Anarchy + Close Enough + The Nth Degree = Aiming is for suckers

This, though I have no idea how to check if Nth Degree procs off of ricochet shots from Close Enough. Because the heavens know that it's not going to proc off a regular shot.


I think that is extraordinarily unlikely:

A) If that were the case, and Reynard did have -100% SRD, he wouldn't have to wait for "half a second" because he wouldn't have any delay. His shields would always be recharging. The fact is that there does exist some delay, and I suspect that Reynard is under-reporting the actual amount of time it takes his shields to start recharging.

B) I tested a 4.2 second Bee with 10/5 Ward and -7.2% from Badass points, and there's no way it started recharging in the .53 seconds suggested by that math unless there's some hidden "hard" delay cap that somehow exists despite a complete lack of supporting evidence.

Well, it feels like half a second in combat. :smalltongue: I agree, there is very likely either a soft or hard cap on shield regen reducers.

[Courier6]

I think that is extraordinarily unlikely:

A) If that were the case, and Reynard did have -100% SRD, he wouldn't have to wait for "half a second" because he wouldn't have any delay. His shields would always be recharging. The fact is that there does exist some delay, and I suspect that Reynard is under-reporting the actual amount of time it takes his shields to start recharging.

B) I tested a 4.2 second Bee with 10/5 Ward and -7.2% from Badass points, and there's no way it started recharging in the .53 seconds suggested by that math unless there's some hidden "hard" delay cap that somehow exists despite a complete lack of supporting evidence.

C) All negative-signed modifiers in Borderlands 1 were handled via the reciprocal method wherein a "100% reduction" was actually a "100% increase in rate" AFAIK.

D) Other negative modifiers don't work like that now. -100% Accuracy halves your accuracy, it doesn't increase your spread to literally screen-wide proportions.

To clarify on this, the system Borderlands 2 uses for modifiers is VERY convoluted, basically a 100% recharge delay reduction doesn't mean 100%(base)-100%(variable)=0% it instead means
100%(base)/(1.00(base)+1.00(variable)). Also, instead of adding reducers, you multiply the so in the example:

80% Ward skill= 100%/1+0.8=55.555555%
8% Badass tokens= 55.5555%/1+0.08=51.4403%
15% White artifact= 51.4403/1+0.15=44.7307

You get diminishing returns, even at max eficiantly you don't get as much as you think you should.

[Sith_Happens]

Just got to the first big spoilery bit:

Have to say, I more or less saw that coming from the moment they first announced that Hyperion was the villain for this game. You know, because of the whole "Guardian Angel is (in) a Hyperion satellite" thing after you kill the Destroyer.

On a semi-related note, I am so not buying the whole "Wilhelm nearly took down the Vault Hunters 1.0" thing it's not even funny. Even story/"canon"-wise, there's no way he's anything but a certifiable chump compared to the Destroyer, or General Knoxx, or Crawmerax, or M.I.N.A.C., or...

[Dhavaer]

HOLY FLAMING BALLS! Just started a Mechromancer and Midge-Mong dropped a 111 damage orange assault rifle. I'm level 5, it does more damage than my sniper rifle and seems to have a rocket launcher type area of effect. Bastard guns for bastard people!

[ex cathedra]

Are you sure that you multiply each and every modifier? In the first game, at least, i'm fairly certain that it added all of your modifiers together and then applied them depending on whether the total was positive or negative.

[Kesnit]

I am starting to think that I am playing Salvador wrong. I just killed Captain Flint and popped level 9, so I know I have a long way to go, but he seems to be a suicide machine. The only to way to activate his special power is to run in the middle of everything. Then I lose my shields and start losing health. By the time I am out of gun-zerking, I'm lucky to have 1/4 of my health left. (More likely, I have a tiny sliver left on my health bar.)

Is there another way that he is supposed to be played that doesn't lead to his frequent death?

[Sith_Happens]

I am starting to think that I am playing Salvador wrong. I just killed Captain Flint and popped level 9, so I know I have a long way to go, but he seems to be a suicide machine. The only to way to activate his special power is to run in the middle of everything. Then I lose my shields and start losing health. By the time I am out of gun-zerking, I'm lucky to have 1/4 of my health left. (More likely, I have a tiny sliver left on my health bar.)

Is there another way that he is supposed to be played that doesn't lead to his frequent death?

Kill everything before your Gunzerk ends?

Also, I picked up my first half-decent Amp shield the other day, and can confirm that Amp + Shotgun = Awesome. Especially with Decepti0n.

[Tiki Snakes]

Sure, you can play him however you like. Gunzerking regens your health and your ammo, so you could quite happily play conservative, blasting away and keeping out of trouble. If you get in trouble, either taking too much damage or running low on bullets, you pop gunzerking and the problem solves itself.

Sure, Gunzerking makes you want to charge in like a madman and gun down everything in a cackling hail of death. Doesn't mean you have to, or that it's the only way to play. :smallsmile:
Disclaimer; I Have barely played Salvador even as far as Flint.

[Erloas]

Well Salvador will get much better at it with levels, right now you don't have the skill points to do it too much. I find that I don't use gunzerk all that much really, it seems to be a very group dependent skill and doing it solo does tend to get you killed. Though with the right shield, like the Firehawk shield or really any of the Nova shields (especially the one that goes off at shield or health drop) because it works so well with being in the middle of everything.

[Triscuitable]

Gunzerking instantly refills your health, so I recommend grinding a shield like the Negonator off of Spycho, or something similar.

In other news, I got the Siren and Mechromancer heads off of Vermivorous! The Siren head I love; the Mechromancer head... Not so much (it's really quite disturbing).

[Psyren]

Salvador is my main so I'm happy to provide pointers. I currently have him at 25.

If you liked Brick he is very similar, except he is much better at ranged combat. The principle is the same - you start taking damage, you flip out and begin massacring everything, you loot and move on to the nex groupt. Rampage and Brawn are both good trees for players new to Salvador and trying to level him, but I personally recommend Rampage as that one is focused around Gunzerking - once you've made your way down that tree you can be 'zerking almost constantly, spraying bullets with impunity.


Key tactics/Brick differences:

- When to Gunzerk: Unlike Brick, who generally wants to go beast-mode as soon as his shields drop, you'll want to take some punishment first. Whereas Brick's healing while berserking is a constant inflow, Salvador gets a massive boost initially (50% of your maximum) followed by a much slower, though still noticeable, regen for the remainder of the duration. Therefore you want to wait until you're down at least 50% otherwise you'll waste a lot of healing. In addition, max health is much more important for Salvador than max shields, as all his self-healing is % of health based.

- Ammo: save it for your teammates, especially if you're playing with Maya (who has in certain builds no way to kill enemies aside from using her guns.) You regen ammo while gunzerking and so should almost never run out once you're a couple of levels into the tree. Similarly, magazine SDUs are a waste of Eridium for you - max grenades and bag capacity first, then launcher and bank.

- Grenades: Practice using them (typically, on badasses and on large groups of enemies.) There's an amazing skill in the Rampage tree that lets you throw two grenades for the price of one while gunzerking. This will let you liquefy roomfulls of badasses if you get MIRV grenades, so keep those as current as you can.

- Know when to hide: Unlike Brick, Salvador can take cover while raging - combined with your regen you can break away from combat to recover your health in a rough situation, so don't be afraid to do that.

[Triscuitable]

- Ammo: save it for your teammates, especially if you're playing with Maya (who has in certain builds no way to kill enemies aside from using her guns.) You regen ammo while gunzerking and so should almost never run out once you're a couple of levels into the tree. Similarly, magazine SDUs are a waste of Eridium for you - max grenades and bag capacity first, then launcher and bank.

While it's certainly helpful that you regenerate ammo, there's a few reasons why you should buy ammo capacity upgrades.


You won't regenerate ammo as quickly as you may think while gunzerking.
You only regenerate ammo outside of a gunzerk if you're specced to do so.
You can only regenerate as much ammo as you can hold.
Eridium is not only plentiful, but almost worthless once you start TVHM. Just upgrade all SDUs up to Blue in playthrough 1, and move on to maxing them out in PT2. You'll have max capacity by level 45.

[Lunix Vandal]

You won't regenerate ammo as quickly as you may think while gunzerking.This goes double if you use SMGs and/or Vladofs, and triple once you pick up Keep Firing. Spamming full-mag Tediore reloads is on another scale entirely.


- Grenades: Practice using them (typically, on badasses and on large groups of enemies.) There's an amazing skill in the Rampage tree that lets you throw two grenades for the price of one while gunzerking. This will let you liquefy roomfulls of badasses if you get MIRV grenades, so keep those as current as you can.

- Know when to hide: Unlike Brick, Salvador can take cover while raging - combined with your regen you can break away from combat to recover your health in a rough situation, so don't be afraid to do that.QFT. Much as non-Cataclysm Mayas have few ways to damage enemies without bullets, Salvador has few ways to damage Nomad Taskmasters (and their Badass variant) without explosives. See also: my "Sawtooth Cauldron gets all my rage" post a few pages back.

[Psyren]

TVHM?

I'm not saying don't get the gun SDUs at all - but for Salvador, Backpack and Grenades are much higher priorities imo, or even Launcher/Bank. Considering you need 120 Eridium to max your backpack and grenades, early on you can easily feel the squeeze, even though windfalls do come later. (My main source is gambling at Moxxi's, which also gives great guns and lots of skin customizations.) I dual shotguns, and have bought exactly one shotgun SDU the whole time I've been playing, however I've yet to run out of ammo for any guns I use. I typically dual-shotguns as my primary setup, and dual fast-firing revolvers for distant targets (like retreating Rakks.)

Now, I do agree the regen isn't fast enough to compensate for all your consumption (particularly with fast-firing weapons), but you can 'zerk between fights just fine as well. You'll likely find yourself doing this to top up your health anyway, so it's a good idea to do this for your guns too and save any hypos/bullets lying around for your team. I believe speccing for passive bullet regen is thus a waste of points, and that includes class mods, or talents like 5 Shots or 6. With cooldown reductions you should have no problem 'zerking while heading to the next quest, and then 'zerk being ready once you get there in case you need it.

Here's (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/09/28/how-to-make-the-gunzerker-a-rapid-firing-maniac.aspx?PostPageIndex=1) the build I followed. (Note to self: If I stick with my current setup, Keep Firing and Steady as She Goes may be pointless, in which case I'll likely shift those two points to the Brawn tree for more survivability.)

[Triscuitable]

True Vault Hunter Mode is the new game plus mode, where enemies are scaled from levels 35-50. Enemies are tougher, combat is more exciting, loot is better, and it's really the better experience. You won't need really need SDU upgrades until you get to this point. But when you get to TVHM, Eridium is so common you won't have to worry.

[factotum]

Salvador has few ways to damage Nomad Taskmasters (and their Badass variant) without explosives.

A rifle can do that job pretty well--admittedly, my Gunzerker is stuck in early 2nd playthrough at level 36 while I play through the Mechromancer, but a slag SMG in one hand and an explosive rifle in the other really does some damage, even to Badass Nomad Taskmasters.

[Tiki Snakes]

Huh. That's weird. I honestly don't expect to need that much Eridium by the Time I'm on the next playthrough. I've got over half of the upgrades already by something like level 25. Perhaps steadily co-opping makes finding the purple goodies a lot easier, or we have been lucky on the slots...

[Valaqil]

You only regenerate ammo outside of a gunzerk if you're specced to do so.
You can only regenerate as much ammo as you can hold.


These don't seem to be a big problem to me.


You won't regenerate ammo as quickly as you may think while gunzerking.

But this was. Man, do I blow through ammo while Gunzerking. Gunzerk two weapons of the same type, with high fire rate, and watch as you empty all your ammo and wait on regen to get a full clip. (My Gunzerker isn't very far, so his lower ammo cap really hurts.)

And on the Eridium note, if you have a weapon type or two that you really don't care about, you can leave those at the base and get the others quite high even on PT 1. I think I have three max, and two others at least at blue on PT 1 so far.


TVHM?


The Very Hard Mode.

[Chen]

The Very Hard Mode.

Actually its True Vault Hunter Mode. So far though in my PT2 (nearly done) I haven't really had any difficulty. I think using the Bee shield is making things far more broken than usual but its an interesting challenging. At level 47 now and using a 1.5k shield is actually pretty fun. When its up I deal a TON of damage, but most things take out the shield + a good chunk of life if they actually hit me. Using Moxxi's SMGs allow for decent health regen plus I have a homing MIRV transfusion grenade which is pretty damn awesome. Being able to duck behind cover and just throw the thing into the air and have it find someone to blow up and then heal me is great.

Also Ruin with Converge, Chain reaction and now Wreck makes Phaselock pretty damn monstrous. Phaselock the big guy shoot all the things that get converged in and watch everything die horrible. Its beautiful.

[Erloas]

Maybe it is because I don't gunzerk as much as I should, but I run out of ammo all the time with Salvador if I don't have the class mod on, especially if I have two of the same gun type going. Or at least I did before I got a lot of the storage upgrades. The ammo regen class mod I think is almost required, at least if you are playing with other people, because they will often burn through ammo very quickly even if you don't.

I don't see much of a point in the bank upgrades, I hardly ever use the base sized bank. Because weapons are useless if you don't have them with you to actually use and most everything else there really is only 1-2 good choices for however you play the class. That might change at 50 of course, but otherwise you level out of stuff fairly quickly, so maybe late into the second playthrough it might be worth getting bank upgrades.

And at this point, level 25, I have 3-4 upgrades through purple and at least blue in almost everything else.

[Sith_Happens]

I don't see much of a point in the bank upgrades, I hardly ever use the base sized bank. Because weapons are useless if you don't have them with you to actually use and most everything else there really is only 1-2 good choices for however you play the class. That might change at 50 of course, but otherwise you level out of stuff fairly quickly, so maybe late into the second playthrough it might be worth getting bank upgrades.

I think it's for people like me who intend to collect all the unique weapons instead of selling them once and never seeing them again.

[Psyren]

True Vault Hunter Mode is the new game plus mode, where enemies are scaled from levels 35-50. Enemies are tougher, combat is more exciting, loot is better, and it's really the better experience. You won't need really need SDU upgrades until you get to this point. But when you get to TVHM, Eridium is so common you won't have to worry.

Well, since Kesnit was asking for level 9 help I don't think NG+ advice is relevant to him quite yet. And as I pointed out, gambling at Moxxi can get you a boatload of Eridium on playthrough 1 anyway, enough to max out at least the items I mentioned (which I did by 22) and start in on his preferred gun types.


Huh. That's weird. I honestly don't expect to need that much Eridium by the Time I'm on the next playthrough. I've got over half of the upgrades already by something like level 25. Perhaps steadily co-opping makes finding the purple goodies a lot easier, or we have been lucky on the slots...

Precisely. And co-op does help - I'm not sure how it affects drop-rates, but I do know that any eridium your partner gets goes to your stash as well - including eridium gained from gambling. Typically when we get back to Sanctuary, I'll run around turning quests in while my partner immediately hits the slots. Or one of us will be gambling while the other gets food/takes a bio break etc. Past a certain point, the slots are the only thing in Sanctuary worth spending money on, barring the occasional daily special.

Not to mention, more characters = better items AND more carrying capacity to haul the swag to a vending machine.


A rifle can do that job pretty well--admittedly, my Gunzerker is stuck in early 2nd playthrough at level 36 while I play through the Mechromancer, but a slag SMG in one hand and an explosive rifle in the other really does some damage, even to Badass Nomad Taskmasters.

Explosive shotguns (i.e. Torque) are better - not only do the blasts damage through their shield, the pellet spread can also land hits on their exposed feet or heads (depending on where they're holding it.) Salvador should have no problem surviving up-close to land these blows. You can also try sneaking up on them or circling them as fast as possible. And Torques do massive damage in general anyway, effectively being explosive Jakobs.

I will caveat that I rarely have to solo these guys since I primarily play split-screen anyway.

[Reynard]

Eh, the easiest way I've found to deal with nomads is to first kill all their friends, then run at them, back off as they swing their shield, then shoot them in the face. Repeat until dead.

Well, easiest way for a non-Siren. Then you just phaselock them and blow their brains out.

[Psyren]

Eh, the easiest way I've found to deal with nomads is to first kill all their friends, then run at them, back off as they swing their shield, then shoot them in the face. Repeat until dead.

Well, easiest way for a non-Siren. Then you just phaselock them and blow their brains out.

Actually, Salvador is the only class that tends to have difficulty with them. Axton and Gaige can self-flank them, and Zero can get behind them easily as well. They're tricky for Salvador because he's designed around frontal assault.

[Triscuitable]

So, new DLC today! Who's got it, who doesn't, and who's excited regardless?

[Reynard]

Played through it with a friend earlier today. And, well, the invicible new uberboss is pretty damn Invincible, in name and nature. Not the story boss, that thing is a chump against CC+The Bee

The DLC itself, though. It's good. Kept the humour, added hilariously dumb new vehicles that seem to want to freak the hell out upon contact with walls. We haven't ran into any of the touted Pink weapons yet, but the uniques you get from Quests are really cool. Melee builds will want to do the message-in-a-bottle quests, for reasons that become apparent fairly quickly*.


*+200% melee damage.

[NeoVid]

So... yesterday I dealt 1.1 million damage in one hit.

I realized this is because The Bee's bonus damage applies to every bullet left in a Tediore reload.

I'm even more certain The Bee exists so there's no reason to make hacked items.

[Reynard]

So... yesterday I dealt 1.1 million damage in one hit.

I realized this is because The Bee's bonus damage applies to every bullet left in a Tediore reload.

I'm even more certain The Bee exists so there's no reason to make hacked items.

It's also fun to try and kill the TVH Warrior by throwing smgs at him until he falls over.

[Triscuitable]

I think the "downside" to The Bee is that it buffs shotgun pellets.

Expect to see that nerfed soon. :smalltongue:

[Grue Bait]

So, new DLC today! Who's got it, who doesn't, and who's excited regardless?

Wait, what DLC is this? I hadn't heard anything...

[Triscuitable]

Wait, what DLC is this? I hadn't heard anything...

Captain Scarlett and Her Pirate's Booty. Bought the season pass so I could get it with the next three packs. I also hope to get the DLC for the new classes Gearbox said they'd make if Gaige did well (which she did).

[Grue Bait]

Captain Scarlett and Her Pirate's Booty. Bought the season pass so I could get it with the next three packs. I also hope to get the DLC for the new classes Gearbox said they'd make if Gaige did well (which she did).

Well. That was fast. Better grab the wallet I guess.

[Triscuitable]

Well. That was fast. Better grab the wallet I guess.

I think it's alright. There's a crapload of sidequests (I mean dozens), but the main story is very short (maybe 8-10 quests). However, there's two new raid bosses, a bunch of new gun types (including Blue Text drawbacks as a parallel to Red Text bonuses), a new rarity (PINK!) that can only be bought with a special new currency, and a bunch of the series' trademark humor.

I'll actually say that the Season Pass would be a good idea, since it'll save you $10 in the long run, and if any DLC turns out to be crummy, you can think, "well, at least I didn't pay for this one". :smallamused:

[Grue Bait]

I might've done that, had I any extra cash. Does it include any future classes, or just expansion stuff?

[Triscuitable]

I might've done that, had I any extra cash. Does it include any future classes, or just expansion stuff?

Just the expansions. They'll have level cap increases, and it's quite possible they might include new classes, too.

[Grue Bait]

Just the expansions. They'll have level cap increases, and it's quite possible they might include new classes, too.

Eh, I suppose that'll be worth it. I never had to worry about this stuff when I got the GotY edition of the first. :smallsigh:

[factotum]

Played partway through the DLC last night (how do you guys find the time to have finished it already? :smallconfused:). Liking what I've seen so far, although I actually felt a bit sorry for Shade! It's also cool that Gearbox have finally found a type of vehicle that their (frankly strange) PC control method actually works for...

[Reynard]

Played partway through the DLC last night (how do you guys find the time to have finished it already? :smallconfused:). Liking what I've seen so far, although I actually felt a bit sorry for Shade! It's also cool that Gearbox have finally found a type of vehicle that their (frankly strange) PC control method actually works for...

Me and my friend pretty much just blew through the main story with the aid of fruits of our grinding from the main game. Read: The Bee is ridiculous. We did a few side quests, but due to not needing or caring about XP, money, or Eridium, didn't do the majority.

Mostly we wanted to fight the new super boss after hearing rumours of them having fixed the 'Pretty much anyone can run in and destroy these bosses' issue. Again, read: The Bee is damn ridiculous.

[Sith_Happens]

Read: The Bee is ridiculous.

I feel like we should just make that the thread subtitle at this point.

[Cespenar]

Float like a Zer0, sting like The Bee.

[Sholos]

I think the "downside" to The Bee is that it buffs shotgun pellets.

Expect to see that nerfed soon. :smalltongue:

I don't understand why they'd do that at all. It's not like they have a vested interest in keeping player's power level down and balanced like in an MMO.

[Chen]

I don't understand why they'd do that at all. It's not like they have a vested interest in keeping player's power level down and balanced like in an MMO.

Its so that new content they put out isn't immediately obsolete. Basically all the guns/shields in the game are pretty pointless when the Bee + shotgun/smg is FAR better. I mean a top end purple SMG does around 5-6k damage per shot. The Bee adds ~50k damage per shot. So they make a new better SMG that deals 7k damage per shot. Does it really matter if you're using the Bee? Its a negligible difference.

[Valaqil]

I don't understand why they'd do that at all. It's not like they have a vested interest in keeping player's power level down and balanced like in an MMO.

I can't think of many, but at least one complaint is that random people joining your games can wreak havoc when you want a bit more of a challenge. There are hosting options but if you want to play with the public, the Bee can cause some issues. (Note: I support leaving the Bee as it is. If you don't like it... don't use it and only play with people who don't.)

On a separate note, I think I have finally hit the climax on PT 1. : (Serious late-game spoilers)
Roland! Nooooo. :smallfrown: Also, I know Jack is a horrible monster, but he made me feel absolutely terrible about killing Angel. I'm trying to rationalize that it was a bit of a mercy killing, but the way he sounded when he kept asking me not to kill her... Ugh. :smallfrown:

[JediSoth]

On a separate note, I think I have finally hit the climax on PT 1. : (Serious late-game spoilers)
Roland! Nooooo. :smallfrown: Also, I know Jack is a horrible monster, but he made me feel absolutely terrible about killing Angel. I'm trying to rationalize that it was a bit of a mercy killing, but the way he sounded when he kept asking me not to kill her... Ugh. :smallfrown:

You'll feel better later when you find the Echos that chronicle the early part of their life on Pandora.

I never did find The Bee. Before I embark upon TVHM with Maya, I may have to go back to the Arid Wastes to find it. I started it just after Gaige dropped and found the difficultly ramped up by a significant factor. Of course, I always thought the quality of my drops in that play-through were pretty poor. I never saw an orange that didn't come from a quest reward and most of the purples that dropped weren't as good as some of the greens and blues I was using (mostly greens). I didn't even see any e-tech beyond a couple of shotguns I found just after that first e-tech quest.

I've had better luck with Gaige already; I got an e-tech assault rifle just after the e-tech intro quests that totally kicks butt. It's fast, accurate and sets stuff on fire (which is of limited use, but still...).

[Chen]

On a separate note, I think I have finally hit the climax on PT 1. : (Serious late-game spoilers)
Roland! Nooooo. :smallfrown: Also, I know Jack is a horrible monster, but he made me feel absolutely terrible about killing Angel. I'm trying to rationalize that it was a bit of a mercy killing, but the way he sounded when he kept asking me not to kill her... Ugh. :smallfrown:

I wasn't clear if he was actually trying to guilt you into stopping or if he was actually being sincere. Clearly he used and abused his daughter, but none of the holos indicate he never loved her, or at least none of the ones I found.

[Valaqil]

I wasn't clear if he was actually trying to guilt you into stopping or if he was actually being sincere. Clearly he used and abused his daughter, but none of the holos indicate he never loved her, or at least none of the ones I found.

I had the same problem with not being sure. I've joked about being the 'bad guy' to Jack's 'hero' throughout the game, but that uncertainty actually makes me feel like the bad guy, a bit.

[NeoVid]

Jack sounded convincing because he thought everything he said during that scene was true. The only one who honestly believes the hype about Handsome Jack being the good guy is Handsome Jack.



Also, whatever they paid Jack's voice actor, it should have been more.

[JediSoth]

I'm really enjoying the Message in a Bottle quest in Captain Scarlett and Her Pirate's Booty. I'm finding some really cool stuff in the various chests I'm tracking down. They've been fitting in really well with my playstyle for Gaige (I'm heading down the Little Big Trouble tree).

[Triscuitable]

Beautiful reality:

Hide of Terramorphous (roid, spike, nova shield) + Zer0 in Melee spec + DLC Cursed Shotgun (+800% melee damage) = HOLY CRAP THIS WILL BE AMAZING

[ex cathedra]

The DLC shotgun has +850% gun damage (and between 2 and 4 pellets AFAIK), the DLC AR has +200% melee damage.

[Lunix Vandal]

Beautiful reality:

Hide of Terramorphous (roid, spike, nova shield) + Zer0 in Melee spec + DLC Cursed Shotgun (+800% melee damage) = HOLY CRAP THIS WILL BE AMAZINGAlternately: Hide + OC-primary Gaige + Legendary Mechro + Cursed AR.
Life-leeching double attack with +470% damage, continuous 4%/sec HPR, and full shield regen on kill? HECKS YES.

[Sith_Happens]

So last night I finished a side mission in the Dust, and just before calling it quits for the night I noticed a suspicious cardboard box (this was in Ellie's garage). As you might guess, I proceeded to open the box in question in the hope it would contain another Gwen's Head. It did not. Rather, it contained a Two-Fer Maggie. So that's cool.

[ex cathedra]

Nice!

Maggies are really strong, and I'm especially fond of them because I used almost nothing but Mashers on a revolver Mordecai in BL1. I farmed one in just a couple of minutes a few days ago, since it has a very convenient spawn location.

[factotum]

Finished the DLC. Overall conclusion, pretty fun, and some nice loot to be had--will be interesting to see what it's like when I redo it at the end of TVH mode, though.

[Triscuitable]

Finished the DLC. Overall conclusion, pretty fun, and some nice loot to be had--will be interesting to see what it's like when I redo it at the end of TVH mode, though.

Then the loot is much more interesting and fun to use. I feel the DLC exists to benefit melee focused characters, like Gaige and Zer0.

[factotum]

How is Gaige melee focused? I must be playing her wrong! :smallsmile:

[Lunix Vandal]

How is Gaige melee focused? I must be playing her wrong! :smallsmile:
Alternately: Hide + OC-primary Gaige + Legendary Mechro + Cursed AR.
Life-leeching double attack with +470% damage, continuous 4%/sec HPR, and full shield regen on kill? HECKS YES.This is how. (http://www.bl2skills.com/mechromancer.html#45000000000005005000000041515215 1001) (If-or-when the level cap increases, extra points go into BFF.)

[Triscuitable]

How is Gaige melee focused? I must be playing her wrong! :smallsmile:


This is how. (http://www.bl2skills.com/mechromancer.html#45000000000005005000000041515215 1001) (If-or-when the level cap increases, extra points go into BFF.)

Then you just give her the Love Thumper or Hide of Terramorphous, one of the many melee-centric weapons of CSaHPB, and build up a lot of stacks!

[NeoVid]

Nice!

Maggies are really strong, and I'm especially fond of them because I used almost nothing but Mashers on a revolver Mordecai in BL1. I farmed one in just a couple of minutes a few days ago, since it has a very convenient spawn location.

Where can you farm one up? I thought the only boss likely to drop it was Mick Zaford. Since it's the only masher in the game, I need one... per character.

[Salur]

Mick Zaford is indeed the boss to farm for the Maggie; he respawns after the quest is done (if you head over to the train station area). So, if you sided with the Hodunks, you can farm him.

[ScrambledBrains]

So...was playing the slots in Moxxi's bar on my level ten Siren.

Got one Vault Symbol...then a second...followed by a bandit head. I nearly cried. :smallfrown:

[Triscuitable]

Mick Zaford is indeed the boss to farm for the Maggie; he respawns after the quest is done (if you head over to the train station area). So, if you sided with the Hodunks, you can farm him.

Seeing as the Zafords never did anything wrong to anyone, I prefer to side with the Hodunks, and get the Maggie via alternative means. Just a morale thing, not much else. The Slagga is a terrible gun with a habit of glitching the game, and giving you thousands (yes, thousands) of Maliwan skins. The Maggie on the other hand is a fast-firing and fast-reloading shotgun-like revolver. It's also bright pink, which I love.


So...was playing the slots in Moxxi's bar on my level ten Siren.

Got one Vault Symbol...then a second...followed by a bandit head. I nearly cried. :smallfrown:

This happens too often for me to count. That, and the chances of getting 3 Vault symbols is less than the chance of getting an Unusual in TF2. The only difference is you're not paying for the Legendary in real money.

[ScrambledBrains]

This happens too often for me to count. That, and the chances of getting 3 Vault symbols is less than the chance of getting an Unusual in TF2. The only difference is you're not paying for the Legendary in real money.

It's so depressing though. :smallsigh: Hell, all I really want is the jackpot achievement, not even the gun...ok, I want both, but the achievement more. :smallbiggrin:

[Triscuitable]

You can get the Jackpot achievement by getting triple-bars of Eridium. That's how I got it.

[ScrambledBrains]

You can get the Jackpot achievement by getting triple-bars of Eridium. That's how I got it.

Noted. Should I assume that has a higher chance of occuring?

Also, just killed my first GOD-liath. It was awesome. :smallamused:

[Triscuitable]

Noted. Should I assume that has a higher chance of occuring?

Also, just killed my first GOD-liath. It was awesome. :smallamused:

3 Vault Symbols: .001%
3 Triple Eridium Bars: .05%

[NeoVid]

Mick Zaford is indeed the boss to farm for the Maggie; he respawns after the quest is done (if you head over to the train station area). So, if you sided with the Hodunks, you can farm him.

I was hoping that wasn't it... my experiences with farming for Legendaries so far have all resulted in giving up in frustration after killing the boss a few dozen times. I'd rather spend most of my time having fun.

[ex cathedra]

Mick Zaford, at least, is probably the easiest boss in the game to farm. After you finish the quest, if you enter The Dust from the train station in Lynch Wood you'll spawn ~6 feet from Mick and every time you quit/continue you'll spawn in the same spot. I got my Maggie, literally, in like 10 or 15 minutes.

[Triscuitable]

Mick Zaford, at least, is probably the easiest boss in the game to farm. After you finish the quest, if you enter The Dust from the train station in Lynch Wood you'll spawn ~6 feet from Mick and every time you quit/continue you'll spawn in the same spot. I got my Maggie, literally, in like 10 or 15 minutes.

Spare only Henry, and (if you're up for a 20 second jog) Knuckledragger. Thing about Knuckledragger is that he's worth farming from the start, as no enemies spawn after you go through that area the first time. Just him. The Dahl Hornet also kicks some serious ass, and holds up well until level 12-15, depending on the damage output.

[ex cathedra]

The difference being that Mick has a really favorable drop chance whereas Henry takes four or five times as much investment because of the walk/jump and the drop chance on heads is abysmal. :smalltongue:

[Triscuitable]

The difference being that Mick has a really favorable drop chance whereas Henry takes four or five times as much investment because of the walk/jump and the drop chance on heads is abysmal. :smalltongue:

And yet, I have every head she drops. I also have every Mechromancer and Siren head, spare Cold Steel.

[Kesnit]

This may sound really dumb, but I haven't had time to play very far into the game.

Do enemies in a given location stay the level they are when you encounter them, or do they get more powerful if you go back later (in the same playthrough).

I got Zer0 to Sanctuary, then started one of each other character. That's when I discovered the challenges. Since I had not done any of them with Zer0, I hopped him back to the Southern Steppes to catch him up. When I went to Migemong's area, I thought the enemies there would be easy for my LVL 10 Zer0, but they seemed just as challenging as they had been.

Maybe I just wasn't over their level enough to make a difference, but it got me wondering.

[Erloas]

The world does, for the most part, scale with your level. I'm not sure how it works exactly but if you go too far away from what they expect things will be higher level then you, but only by a couple levels, and if you go back to old places things will be lower level then you by a bit. Some areas seem to cap out, and some might have a minimum level but I haven't seen that.
One of the main things that determines difficulty though is as much the types of enemies as their level, so if you go back to an early level there will still mostly be the basic/easier enemy types around.

[factotum]

I think the game is a lot more aggressive about level scaling in TVH mode. I remember doing the Firehawk cult quest that requires you to return to the Southern Shelf--in playthrough 1 I was something like level 12 and all the level 3-4 enemies melted like chocolate in a heatwave before me; it was a bit more challenging in playthrough 2.

[Kyrian]

Mick Zaford, at least, is probably the easiest boss in the game to farm. After you finish the quest, if you enter The Dust from the train station in Lynch Wood you'll spawn ~6 feet from Mick and every time you quit/continue you'll spawn in the same spot. I got my Maggie, literally, in like 10 or 15 minutes.

Sadly I sided with him, which sucks because with Zer0 I love my Jakobs weaponry.


The world does, for the most part, scale with your level. I'm not sure how it works exactly but if you go too far away from what they expect things will be higher level then you, but only by a couple levels, and if you go back to old places things will be lower level then you by a bit. Some areas seem to cap out, and some might have a minimum level but I haven't seen that.
One of the main things that determines difficulty though is as much the types of enemies as their level, so if you go back to an early level there will still mostly be the basic/easier enemy types around.

Any area you may be required to go back to for quests, and some of the others I think, scale with you. But if you go back to Boom Bewm and Flint and other not too important area, they'll be a walk in the park. Took Zer0 back at lvl 30 and shot Boom out of Bertha AND killed him in the one shot.

[Chen]

I'm fairly sure the game scales by your main story quest. Areas also have limits on how high they scale. Once you've beaten playthrough 2 all areas scale to max level.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I have both Maggie (farmed) and Conference Call (traded for). I kind of prefer confrence all because it adds elemental damage. I just sorta wish I was a gunzerker so I could dual wield both.

[DiscipleofBob]

I just got past the Core Control boss, and the most recent plot event really bugs me...

Major Spoilers for those who haven't gotten this far yet.

There is no reason Roland should have died. It makes no sense.

First of all, there's the fact that it was a single pistol shot from behind which killed Roland. A player-character from the first game who has epic-level gear, including what must be a powerful shield. Not only that but between the numerous possibilities for health regen, and the fact that Roland was the closest thing to a healer in the first game, he would have to have been at full health and shields by the time Jack showed up.

Also, even if Jack got the drop on Roland, forgiveable since it was earlier established that Roland sometimes lets his guard down, there's still Lilith and at least one of the player characters. No one else noticed the teleporting sound and teleporting visual effect after a boss battle which was nothing but bots teleporting in?

Even forgiving all that, assuming Jack has some uber-pistol that can even one-shot a first-gen Vault Hunter at full health and shields, assuming the Fight For Your Life mechanic doesn't do the trick (in my playthrough we had Maya who could insta-revive people as well), there's still one important plot hole: The New-U Station.

In other games, respawning at the save point is handwaved as a game mechanic. In the Borderlands games, it's a plot point. The Hyperion Corporation provides the New-U Station to make insta-clone respawns with all the clothes, gear, memories, and experience of the recently deceased. These clones are treated as the original and are the exact same as the original, even duplicating Sirens' powers, making murder a minor offense at best. The only possible side effects are a possible existential crisis over the possible realization you're a clone, and possibly infertility. It even explains the respawning of enemies/bosses since they can have the New-U insurance as well. It also explains why so many NPC's are captured rather than killed, as merely killing them would be a temporary inconvenience.

One could make the argument that since these devices are run by the Hyperion Corporation, Jack could just revoke the "life insurance" they provide for a target to stay dead. But even that doesn't make sense since if he was capable of turning those off to the Vault Hunters and bandits, he would have done so long ago, as Jack's entire campaign throughout the game has been to kill the Vault Hunters, Sanctuary, the Bandits, etcetera and wipe them from Pandora. If he had the power to turn those stations off, he would have done so long ago. And the New U Stations clearly work for the Vault Hunters after the event in Core Control, so it's not like he just changed his mind.

There is no reason Roland would not have respawned at a local New U Station. There's no reason he wouldn't have a large cash stash being the head of Sanctuary so it's not like he couldn't afford the respawn.

His death doesn't even add anything to the plot really. Sure we get some good mourning reactions from characters, but honestly, it wouldn't change the plot any if he lived. Lilith would still get captured (seriously, what part of Stay in the City don't you understand?), Jack would still be that much closer to the Warrior, we'd still hate Jack just as much for killing everyone else in the game and acting like the unsufferable ass that he is. (RIP Bloodwing)

The only good reason I could see is if there's a zombie DLC and you fight alongside zombie Roland mounting his zombie Scorpio turret atop a zombie Bloodwing raining redundant zombie death on foes.

[mangosta71]

Decided to pick this game up over the weekend and started with Zer0, going Bloodshed because I never saw a sniper rifle until I was level 7 (I'm up to 12 now) or so, and they're still (by far) the least common weapon type I've found. Basically I've been thinning the herd with my rifle and then mopping up with sword and shotgun.

I see that people were complaining about Decepti0n aggroing things from really long distances, but I haven't had any issues with that. I'm currently working on the fifth rank of "Surprise!" (sniping unaggroed enemies) and I need the damage bonus to oneshot an ever-increasing number of things. I hope to one day find a sniper rifle that isn't a complete piece of ****, but for now I'm stuck with a level 8 white.

Couple quick questions - how does one throw a weapon? And is there a reason badass psychos always come in pairs?

[JediSoth]

Decided to pick this game up over the weekend and started with Zer0, going Bloodshed because I never saw a sniper rifle until I was level 7 (I'm up to 12 now) or so, and they're still (by far) the least common weapon type I've found. Basically I've been thinning the herd with my rifle and then mopping up with sword and shotgun.

I see that people were complaining about Decepti0n aggroing things from really long distances, but I haven't had any issues with that. I'm currently working on the fifth rank of "Surprise!" (sniping unaggroed enemies) and I need the damage bonus to oneshot an ever-increasing number of things. I hope to one day find a sniper rifle that isn't a complete piece of ****, but for now I'm stuck with a level 8 white.

Couple quick questions - how does one throw a weapon? And is there a reason badass psychos always come in pairs?

You throw a weapon if it is a Tediore and you're reloading it, because Tediore weapons are disposable. Unless you mean grenades; that's a separate key binding.

I'm sure there's a reason badass psychos always come in pairs, but I actually have encountered them singly. I think it just depends on WHERE you encounter them.

Oddly, I don't have any trouble finding awesome sniper rifles. I've played Maya and am working on Gaige right now, and my favorite weapons have been corrosion sniper rifles I've found. Totally unlike the first Borderlands, where all the best weapons I ever found were pistols (specifically revolvers).

[Sholos]

Couple quick questions - how does one throw a weapon? And is there a reason badass psychos always come in pairs?

The thrown weapons are Tediore guns when you reload them. Instead of actual reloading, you throw it out and it explodes and a new one is teleported into your hands. No idea on the other question. Maybe they're all twins?

[mangosta71]

You throw a weapon if it is a Tediore and you're reloading it, because Tediore weapons are disposable. Unless you mean grenades; that's a separate key binding.
It happens automatically? None of the Tediore weapons I've found so far have been good enough to actually use, so it's just a matter of curiosity right now.

Oddly, I don't have any trouble finding awesome sniper rifles. I've played Maya and am working on Gaige right now, and my favorite weapons have been corrosion sniper rifles I've found. Totally unlike the first Borderlands, where all the best weapons I ever found were pistols (specifically revolvers).
Above green, I've found two pink pistols, a bunch of blue pistols, and one blue SMG (which I'm using for mid-range second winds). I'm not sure why the game is insisting that my Zer0 use weapons that he can't spec for, but my Maya is going to be thrilled to bits. Once I start her and get her to Sanctuary.

[Dhavaer]

It happens automatically? None of the Tediore weapons I've found so far have been good enough to actually use, so it's just a matter of curiosity right now.

It's how they reload. You throw, it explodes dealing damage based on how many bullets were left in the clip, a new gun digistructs into your hand.

[Erloas]

I have found very few Tediore weapons worth using, I think just a shotgun I used for a little while, and I think one assault rifle, since they are the primary (only?) supplier of explosive elemental weapons.

I have yet to see any pink loot, I've seen quite a few purple drops though.

As for the sniper rifles, it takes a while before you start seeing elemental ones but you should see pretty good standard ones fairly early on. Most of the early ones are Jakobs. And for the most part sniper rifles are really only useful when you can get criticals with them, so the bonus critical damage specs on them are a lot more powerful then it would be on other weapon types.

Forget what character exactly right now, but even in the 10-14 level range I can easily hit for 1500-2000 damage with head shots from a snipe rifle, which will kill everything I've ran across except bosses in one shot, with an occasional exception for a few high end enemies.

[factotum]

I have found very few Tediore weapons worth using, I think just a shotgun I used for a little while, and I think one assault rifle, since they are the primary (only?) supplier of explosive elemental weapons.

You're confusing them with Torgue. Torgue are the ones who produce nothing but explosive guns, although I don't think I've ever seen a Torgue sniper rifle and their pistols are rubbish...a good shotty or combat rifle of theirs simply owns, though.

[mangosta71]

As for the sniper rifles, it takes a while before you start seeing elemental ones but you should see pretty good standard ones fairly early on. Most of the early ones are Jakobs. And for the most part sniper rifles are really only useful when you can get criticals with them, so the bonus critical damage specs on them are a lot more powerful then it would be on other weapon types.

Forget what character exactly right now, but even in the 10-14 level range I can easily hit for 1500-2000 damage with head shots from a snipe rifle, which will kill everything I've ran across except bosses in one shot, with an occasional exception for a few high end enemies.
Right. I have one with 120% bonus critical damage, and I'm getting 1k+ hits on things, but I'm running into more and more nomads (who survive a non-decepti0ned sniper head shot even without shields). Shielded marauders take multiple shots if they're level 10+. For goliaths, I ping the mask off and hope the rest of the enemies in the area have what it takes to finish them off while I run little a little Japanese schoolgirl fleeing from an octopus invasion.

[Erloas]

You're confusing them with Torgue. Torgue are the ones who produce nothing but explosive guns, although I don't think I've ever seen a Torgue sniper rifle and their pistols are rubbish...a good shotty or combat rifle of theirs simply owns, though.

You are right... which means I don't think I've found more then maybe 1-2 pistols in early game from Tediore worth using.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm not sure why the game is insisting that my Zer0 use weapons that he can't spec for,

Quite the contrary, the Cunning tree probably goes best with high fire rate weapons. I'm specced in there for now at least until I have enough points for Many Must Fall; Executing one enemy at a time just wasn't really doing it for me.

[ex cathedra]

Quite the contrary, the Cunning tree probably goes best with high fire rate weapons. I'm specced in there for now at least until I have enough points for Many Must Fall; Executing one enemy at a time just wasn't really doing it for me.

Indeed. Most of my Zero playthrough involved me, frankly, pretending that I was Lillith in BL1. He's an amazing SMG/Repeater/Revolver user, and Deception is excellent for healing/repositioning/shotgunning kunai. I'm not convinced that his Sniper or Melee builds are particularly strong in the first place.

[Anteros]

Indeed. Most of my Zero playthrough involved me, frankly, pretending that I was Lillith in BL1. He's an amazing SMG/Repeater/Revolver user, and Deception is excellent for healing/repositioning/shotgunning kunai. I'm not convinced that his Sniper or Melee builds are particularly strong in the first place.

Sniper and melee are both amazing if you do them right. Sniper is very much a glass cannon, but the damage is ridiculous. Melee is good as well, but it really doesn't shine until you get many must fall.

[factotum]

For goliaths, I ping the mask off and hope the rest of the enemies in the area have what it takes to finish them off while I run little a little Japanese schoolgirl fleeing from an octopus invasion.

The problem there is that, if the enemies in the area DON'T have the wherewithal to kill the Goliath, you're going to end up with a Super Badass Raging Goliath coming after you--you can't headshot them, your only real option is to take them down with lots of bullets at close range (e.g. shotgun or SMG). This is why you need to have a good backup weapon like that even if you're a stealthy sniper build!

[Cespenar]

Sniper and melee are both amazing if you do them right. Sniper is very much a glass cannon, but the damage is ridiculous. Melee is good as well, but it really doesn't shine until you get many must fall.

I played a lot of melee Zer0 before I got Many Must Fall, and it's pretty solid, at least on normal mode. You get a class mod that boosts that kill skill which gives you movement bonus, and you leap, dodge and weave your way through opponents with hilarious speed, cutting them into pieces as you pass. If an enemy is too far, Deception + Execute several times towards him brings you to melee range within 5 invulnerable seconds.


The problem there is that, if the enemies in the area DON'T have the wherewithal to kill the Goliath, you're going to end up with a Super Badass Raging Goliath coming after you--you can't headshot them, your only real option is to take them down with lots of bullets at close range (e.g. shotgun or SMG). This is why you need to have a good backup weapon like that even if you're a stealthy sniper build!

Huh? I remember them to be perfectly headshottable. The head bounced around a bit, but shotguns are there for that.

[factotum]

OK, "You can't headshot them with a sniper rifle unless you're a God amongst gamers." That better?

[pffh]

OK, "You can't headshot them with a sniper rifle unless you're a God amongst gamers." That better?

Not really. The entire stem from the neck to the head is also a crittable area. In fact I prefer to pop the buckets off them and deal with the God-liaths after they clear the room.

[Tiki Snakes]

I find rampaging Goliaths burn pretty reliably, if nothing else. Infact, that's one of the reason I find it so hard to throw away fire sniper-rifles. Any human enemies just seem to melt wonderfully, especially without shield. With the right rifle, headshots are a bonus, not a requirement.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I've never had a problem with goliaths (even high level ones) as a siren. Phaselock is great against them. It stops them from charging me and it sticks their whole head back into an easily snipeable spot.

[Anteros]

Not really. The entire stem from the neck to the head is also a crittable area. In fact I prefer to pop the buckets off them and deal with the God-liaths after they clear the room.

Indeed. Find a slightly elevated spot. Aim at downward angle. Pull trigger when he runs into your sights. You should crit every time.

[Anteros]

I played a lot of melee Zer0 before I got Many Must Fall, and it's pretty solid, at least on normal mode. You get a class mod that boosts that kill skill which gives you movement bonus, and you leap, dodge and weave your way through opponents with hilarious speed, cutting them into pieces as you pass. If an enemy is too far, Deception + Execute several times towards him brings you to melee range within 5 invulnerable seconds.


The problem is that before many must fall, you are now unstealthed in the middle of the enemy waiting 8 seconds to be useful again.

[Sith_Happens]

The problem is that before many must fall, you are now unstealthed in the middle of the enemy waiting 8 seconds to be useful again.

You know, just because you've specced melee doesn't mean you can't use guns anymore.:smalltongue:

[Drascin]

Plus if you get ahold of Law and Order, Many Must Fall is just a timesaver. You can perfectly walk up and stab everything except bosses in the face without a care.

Even without them, if you're fast and careful you can definitely go around very well. It doesn't work until you have about 10 skill points to put into the tree, so I started sniper in the beginning - but when I respecced to melee, I never looked back. Yes, it's not as easymode - but by god is it fun as hell running around stabbing guys with a bayonetted shotgun!

[DiscipleofBob]

So how do melee classes fare when you're facing certain airborn bosses? Do you just suck it up and switch to guns for a time?

[Reynard]

I think there was a post about how, if you spam Zero's dash skill, you can fly around and chase down airborne enemies.

Maya has her probably really impractical melee override skill.

Gaige and Axton are out of luck personally, but their action skills can compensate.

And I think a MeleeZerker's only solution is to cry in a corner and hope the boss feels so depressed at the sight that they kill themselves.

[mangosta71]

Yeah, there happened to be a green quality fire sniper rifle (whose base damage was 50% above the rifle I was using) on the vendor when I got home yesterday. I also happened to find a 0ne Sh0t skill mod, so I respecced sniper. Night and day difference. I was putting everything, including freaking Goliaths and badass nomads, down with one shot unless it was fire resistant, but the same vendor had also had a blue shotgun with massive damage. Emphasis on had. And then I got to the Bloodshot Ramparts, where the rifle did next to nothing, but point-blank shotgun blasts were plenty effective, as was the rocket launcher that someone had conveniently left in a box at the beginning of the area.

Of course, after I finished that area, the next drop I got was a corrosive sniper rifle. Then I noticed that I was level 16 and hadn't done the cult questline, so I equipped my ninja class mod and hacked my way through that zone (highest level enemies were 11). Good times. Almost as much fun as cruising around The Dust and smoking bandit vehicles.

[Anteros]

You know, just because you've specced melee doesn't mean you can't use guns anymore.:smalltongue:

Just not nearly as effectively as you could otherwise. As for order...my experience was that I couldn't get it until I already had many must fall anyway.

[factotum]

And then I got to the Bloodshot Ramparts, where the rifle did next to nothing

If you mean it wasn't very effective against loaders, you have to remember that the head isn't really a critical hit spot for them (there's the "eye", but it's pretty hard to hit it). Blow their arms off, though, that's a whole different story--you get decent criticals doing that.

[Erloas]

Yeah, aim for the joints of the robots and they just fall to pieces. Though I haven't had much trouble hitting that glowy sensor on their chest either. The robots in general are pretty easy to kill, though yeah, fire doesn't do much to them.

[Cespenar]

So how do melee classes fare when you're facing certain airborn bosses? Do you just suck it up and switch to guns for a time?


I think there was a post about how, if you spam Zero's dash skill, you can fly around and chase down airborne enemies.

Yeah, I killed Bloodwing that way. It was a pretty enjoyable feat to pull.

[NeoVid]

Got a problem, though not as bad as it could have been.

I had a major problem with my save file that I thought had lost me my higher-level characters, but a tech support guy I know was able to fix that. However, I'm still missing everything I earned from challenges with those characters, including Badass ranks and appearance options, but the challenges are all still marked off, so I can't just redo them.

Any idea what I need to do? The proof that those challenges are done is right there, I'm just missing the rewards...

[Dire Ferret]

Got a problem, though not as bad as it could have been.

I had a major problem with my save file that I thought had lost me my higher-level characters, but a tech support guy I know was able to fix that. However, I'm still missing everything I earned from challenges with those characters, including Badass ranks and appearance options, but the challenges are all still marked off, so I can't just redo them.

Any idea what I need to do? The proof that those challenges are done is right there, I'm just missing the rewards...

I believe that's a problem with your profile.bin file, located in the same folder as your character save files, which contains your badass ranks and character customization unlocks. If you can't restore that file then I think you are out of luck. :smallfrown:

[Drascin]

So how do melee classes fare when you're facing certain airborn bosses? Do you just suck it up and switch to guns for a time?

Being melee-focused doesn't necessarily mean melee only. You can use other stuff as well, you know.

Normal flying enemies, you can Execute in midair (and if killing helicopters midflight with a knife doesnt sell you on this, I don't know what to tell you, dude). Bosses, honestly, since you're going to be stabbing everything not a boss with ludicrous ease, just keep an anti-boss weapon like a shottie or something in your second slot, and use that in the intervals where you can't reach with your whacking stick.

[Erloas]

I had a major problem with my save file that I thought had lost me my higher-level characters, but a tech support guy I know was able to fix that. However, I'm still missing everything I earned from challenges with those characters, including Badass ranks and appearance options, but the challenges are all still marked off, so I can't just redo them.

I guess my only question is... are you not using the Steam Cloud for your saves? No issues then with messed up save files. Not sure if enabling it would fix anything, but it would be worth turning on later if you aren't using it to keep this from happening again.

[NeoVid]

I've been using Cloud, and I was glad B2 had it, since I hoped it would keep me from losing chunks of progress and inventory like kept happening in the first game.

Ah well, missing Badass ranks are a lot less painful than if I hadn't gotten back my characters and their inventories.

[Dire Ferret]

I've actually heard that Cloud has caused some people to lose progress. I figure it's safer to just make manual backups.

[JediSoth]

I've actually heard that Cloud has caused some people to lose progress. I figure it's safer to just make manual backups.

I read that was a glitch because of the update that added Gaige. I personally haven't experienced it, but I've heard that it still affect some people despite having been "fixed." Gearbox doesn't know why.

At least, that's what I've heard.

Also, this gun: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/JediSoth/2012-10-25_00002.jpg + 5 ranks in Close Enough (Gaige, BFF tree) = Mass Carnage. Since getting this gun, I have been murderizing everything in hail storms of explosive bullets...sometimes, even when the baddies are around corners or behind me.

[Anteros]

Finally got around to beating this last night. The end bosses were very disappointingly easy.

[Dhavaer]

That looks just like a gun a got off the Warrior. Except mine is level 50 of course, but same components.